Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!

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Marc Martin

Adrenal support

Administrator

Hi all,

Recently I've become very aware of how important adequate adrenal
support has been to my initial recovery, relapse, and second recovery.
In fact, this may have always been my #1 issue, including the reason why
I cannot tolerate heavy metal detox without simultaneously supporting
the adrenals.

Looking back, I see that my initial ES problems occurred after I stopped
taking a cortico-steroid nasal spray (Beconase), which is essentially
"adrenal-replacement" therapy (and most certainly weakens the adrenals
over the longterm, as they see that they're not needed if the drugs
are doing all of their work).

During my initial recovery, I was taking supplements to help rebuild my
adrenal glands (Drenatrophin PMG and Paraplex from Standard Process).
And I definitely improved during this time.

During my relapse, I was not taking any adrenal support supplements, and
was even becoming caffeine-dependent (Yerba Mate) to have enough
energy to get through the day. Unfortunately, while providing short
term benefits, caffeine causes long term weakening of the adrenals.

During my second recovery, I was back on adrenal support -- Adrenal
Desicated and Drenatrophin PMG from Standard Process. And I just
recently ordered some new supplements, Adrenal Cortex from Nutricology,
IsoCort, and "Dr. Wilsons Adrenal Rebuilder". I must say that IsoCort
really helps out with immediate energy levels, and maybe also EMF
anxiety symptoms. Perhaps this is a healthy caffeine alternative?

So if anyone here is suffering from adrenal insufficiency symptoms, you
might want to look into adding some adrenal support. These symptoms
would include:

* fatigue
* dependency on caffeine to get through the day
* inability to handle stress
* anxiety

Marc

Marc Martin

Re: new electrosmog detector

Administrator

In reply to this post by charles-4

> Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be
> in an elektrosmog-poor environment.
> And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.

Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...

Marc

furstc0404-2

Re: new electrosmog detector

This is so true, Mark, I always feel much better outside,
huge difference.

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to record the transmission
level and make notes as to frequency "tolerable"

I am having an MRI on Thursday, could this cause an upsurge
in symptoms?

A few years ago, I had an MRI, and noticed worsening then.

Anyone else with this??

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be
> > in an elektrosmog-poor environment.
> > And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.
>
> Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
> simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...
>
> Marc
>

Ian Kemp

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

In reply to this post by johnottawa80

The test which measures both cysteine and sulphate levels is the "Plasma
cysteine and sulphate" test. It cost about £100 (so could be $ 100-200 in
North America). Sue's was sent to the European Laboratory of Nutrients,
which seems to be linked to Diagnostics Inc in NJ, USA. I think Great
Smokies Labs do a similar test.

In Sue's case her cysteine levels were normal (or slightly high) whereas her
sulphate was way below the reference range, which is 1400-3000; when first
tested she was down at about 250! She is now round the bottom end of the
reference range, so her sulphate levels have gone up by a factor of x6.

One of the best descriptions of liver detox in general is in the
"Detoxification Profile Application Guide" from Great Smokies Laboratory.
The sulphation pathway is the main metabolism route for a number of drugs,
neurotransmitters and other substances. In particular, paracetamol is
detoxified by this route, so is used as the basis of "challenge tests" to
see if this pathway is working.

Sulphur can be in organic forms in foods, including cysteine, methionine and
glutathione, which then undergo "sulphoxidation" to become inorganic
sulphate which does the actual detoxification reaction. But it has been
observed medically that some people have high cysteine levels and low
sulphate levels, which suggests that the enzyme used for sulphoxidation is
deficient. This has been observed particularly for patients with
Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and motor neurone disease. These people do not
benefit from cysteine supplementation (e.g. with MSM) and need inorganic
sulphate (magnesium sulphate directly). High cysteine or "organic sulphur"
levels might cause side-effects as you describe John, but I don't know what
these might be. Conversely, people where the sulphoxidation pathway and
enzyme are working normally do fine with cysteine supplements.

Certainly that was what we observed with Sue; MSM did not seem to help her
at all but magnesium sulphate infusions gave a steady improvement.

This is the snag with prescribing supplements based on general principles
without doing tests; what benefits 90% of the population may be bad for the
person with MCS and ES who, by definition, has something unusual about their
metabolism somewhere.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
johnottawa80
Sent: 14 September 2009 10:41
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate

> However in Sue's case we found her cysteine levels were OK but sulphate
> appallingly low, so her body isn't doing the conversion process.

Ian,
what you write here about sulphur-to-sulphate-conversion is interesting.
I have over the last couple of years developed tics (unvolunteer muscle
contractions, or 'jerks'). It seems to increase when I eat
sulphur-containing foods (like eggs, kale, onions). Could it perhaps be that
my abillity to convert sulphur to sulphate is very low?

I still don't see how an 'accumulation' of sulphur (cystein etc.) would
(biochemically) cause the tics though.
Perhaps anybody has any ideas/explainations?

Is it the liver which does the sulphur-to-sulphate conversion?
Is this conversion perhaps a part of the sulphate detox pathway, or is this
two seperate processes?

Ian, can you tell me what kind of test one should do to find out how the
sulphate liver-detox pathway is functioning? (Name and lab.)
Or perhaps there's another test which just measures sulphate and cysteine in
blood?

James
> Herriot, who wrote a very popular and entertaining series of books about
> life as a vet (familar to UK readers but probably not in North America?)
> described how, in the days before drugs, he successfully treated calves
for
> lead poisoning (caused by them licking old paint) using Epsom salts

This is very interesting!
So: Is it the Magnesium or the Sulphate which detoxifies lead?
Is it perhaps the sulphate which makes the liver's ability to detoxify lead
increase?
It is recommended by many 'experts' to eat cystein-rich foods (or take
N-acetyl-cystein as a supplement) when dealing with heavy metal
detoxification. I always thought that it was for the thiol-groups in
cystein, which would have an affinity to e.g. mercury, but perhaps cystein
is recommended because it (after first being converted to sulphate)
increases the 'strength' of the sulphate-detox-pathway in the liver?
If so, if one is low in sulphate, it seems crusial to get sulphate in
supplement-form (epsom salts) in order to deal with
heavy-metal-detoxification.
Does anybody know more about this?

Regards,
John O.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian Kemp

RE: electrosmog detector

In reply to this post by Emil at Less EMF Inc

Thanks Emil - good to know the same detector is available both sides of the
Atlantic (and at a comparable price)
Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
lessemf.com
Sent: 14 September 2009 14:45
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] electrosmog detector

>I don't know whether this or an equivalent can be purchased in the USA -
anyone else know?

Electrosmog Detector is available in US here:
http://www.lessemf. <http://www.lessemf.com/rf2.html#442> com/rf2.html#442

Emil

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

S.T.

Re: new electrosmog detector

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Hi Charles ,

thanks for your response, I understand the need to measure, be it with a measuring detector or by my symptoms. However I am still in the dark . Here is why.

I am trying to understand the background to two of your comments:

1. "WE ARE BACK LIVING IN BREDA where the are many cell masts and my wife is symptoms free"

When the group finally summoned some smarts to ask you how was that possible, you responded

2. "IT IS ALL IN FIXING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM"

This is where I am missing a link (and some marbles but that is my otherissue),

Lets say that by measuring and my symptoms I determined that I was in an RFjungle. Two moths ago I moved to the countryside ( in addition to many other changes) somewhere that could be described as electro-smog poor environment. Here I cannot have a cell phone conversation inside the house because the signal is not strong enough. So now I am under the impression that I am in a low emission environment.

I am trying to find an answer "how do I get from here to the state ofbeing symptoms free like your wife is?" and could you please specify " fixing the immune system?"

Thanks again

Sandra

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: [hidden email]
Received: Monday, September 14, 2009, 8:08 AM

Hello Sandra,

you are missing something indeed.

You are not seeing a relationship between a detector and the immune system
improvement.
Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be in
an elektrosmog- poor environment.
And that can only be determind with some sort of detector.

Personnally, I am not fond of the aforementioned Electrosmog Detector.
I have one, but find, that it starts at a too high level, giving a false
feeling of securtity.

Since there is a demand for a good detector within a wider range of
frequencies, I could persuade somebody to develope such a metering devoce.
The technical detector part is ready, and it is much more sensitive than was
expected for.
Now they are developing the housing.
Beware, it is a broadband detector, not a meter!

The price should be around 150 Euro.

As soon as I have more details I will post it here.

That the american dollar is expensive now is not our fault, but those of the
americans who let the Marxx Brothers go broke, and other banks, which
started the Crisis we are now in.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "S.T." <stcro@rogers. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

Soon I will show a very new detector, especially developed for
> electrosensibles.
> Very, very sensitive.
> Range from 10 MHz up to 10 GHz.

Hi Charles,

Ok, I might be missing something here but we have been holding our breath
since you told us about fixing immune system and the ability to function in
a EMF jungle. I am not seeing a relationship between a detector and the
immune system improvement. If you are charging for your findings I
understand, nothing is free and that can be discussed.

Sandra

--- On Sun, 9/13/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 11:15 PM

Hello Ian,

I have no details at the moment.
But it will be available soon in Europe and the US.
(The UK is within Europe, I thought. ;o) )

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:51 AM
Subject: RE: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

> The new detector will be very interesting Charles! Can you give us any
> further details yet, e.g. likely price? Will it be available in Europe, UK
> and US?
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> charles@milieuziekt es.be
> Sent: 11 September 2009 16:36
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
>
>
>
>
> Soon I will show a very new detector, especially developed for
> electrosensibles.
> Very, very sensitive.
> Range from 10 MHz up to 10 GHz.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes. nl
> www.milieuziektes. be
> www.hetbitje. nl
> checked by Norton
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. <mailto:loni326% 40yahoo.com> com>
> To: <eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
>
> Where did you get the electrosmog detector?
>
> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
> <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote:
>
> From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net>
> ukgateway.net>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:41 PM
>
> Yes, as you say, finding the underlying root cause is very hard, and often
> expensive :-(
>
> For antennas and masts, it's worth remembering that microwaves pass
> straight
> through glass but are significantly absorbed by walls (brick, wood etc).
> Sue
> found metallised netting, especially over windows, helped a lot. We could
> see the difference easily using the "electrosmog detector" with or without
> the netting.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Loni
> Sent: 10 September 2009 17:58
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
>
> Hi Diane & Ian:
>
> When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be
> a
> systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The
> question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started
> the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root
> cause is the hard question.
>
> If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that
> starts
> with the right kinds of foods in my experience.
>
> The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back
> window
> that are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded
> you know.
>
> Loni
>
> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422%
> 40yahoo.com>
> com> wrote:
>
> From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com> com>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM
>
> Hi, Loni,
>
> I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervous
> system are involved, along with the immune system. At least this seems to
> be the case with me personally.
>
> be well,
> Diane
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:
>
> From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM
>
> Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play
> a
> major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of
> my
> earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
> treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
> for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
> linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now
> able
> to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
> power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
> watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
> drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however
> we
> have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
> windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
> things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces
> the
> metabolic load on the liver.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> Loni
> Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
>
> I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is
> liver
> & nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
> be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
> the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's
> where
> I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.
>
> I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it
> makes
> it very difficult. Loni
>
> --- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
> wrote:
>
> From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM
>
> I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and
> hopefully
> he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it.
> I
> cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
> like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
> horse. LOL
>
> --- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM
>
> Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
> did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni
>
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:
>
> From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM
>
> Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
> used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical
> stimulus.
>
> Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
> electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so,
> we
> have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
> conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!
>
> The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
> fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over
> the
> past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
> people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
> problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
> Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
> high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
> partly additive.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> charles@milieuziekt es.be
> Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
>
> Hello,
>
> on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
> .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf
>
> I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het
> bitje*
> September 2009.
>
> In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes. nl
> www.milieuziektes. be
> www.hetbitje. nl
> www.fscan.be
> checked by Norton
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
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>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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Yahoo! Groups Links

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Ian Kemp

RE: MRI

In reply to this post by furstc0404-2

Well, MRI is Magnetic Resonance Imaging, and I think the scanner generates
quite a large magnetic field, which many ES people are sensitive to. So you
could see an increase in symptoms. Though I think in the past I saw one or
two posts frompeople in the group who hadn't been affected. As usual, luck
of the draw on what affects your personal system.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
furstc0404
Sent: 14 September 2009 21:04
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: new electrosmog detector

This is so true, Mark, I always feel much better outside,
huge difference.

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to record the transmission
level and make notes as to frequency "tolerable"

I am having an MRI on Thursday, could this cause an upsurge
in symptoms?

A few years ago, I had an MRI, and noticed worsening then.

Anyone else with this??

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

johnottawa80

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Hi again Ian,
and thanks for the answer!
I guess I should do some reading on liver-biochemistry. After doing some googling I now see that the use of Epsom Salts (Mag. phos.) in lead-poisoningprobably works because lead combines with the sulphate to make the insoluble precipitate lead sulfate, which would be nontoxic. It has nothing to do with the liver. (And of course heavy metals are handeled through the methylation-pathway, not the sulphation-pathway.)
John O.

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

>
> The test which measures both cysteine and sulphate levels is the "Plasma
> cysteine and sulphate" test. It cost about £100 (so could be $ 100-200 in
> North America). Sue's was sent to the European Laboratory of Nutrients,
> which seems to be linked to Diagnostics Inc in NJ, USA. I think Great
> Smokies Labs do a similar test.
>
> In Sue's case her cysteine levels were normal (or slightly high) whereas her
> sulphate was way below the reference range, which is 1400-3000; when first
> tested she was down at about 250! She is now round the bottom end of the
> reference range, so her sulphate levels have gone up by a factor of x6.
>
> One of the best descriptions of liver detox in general is in the
> "Detoxification Profile Application Guide" from Great Smokies Laboratory.
> The sulphation pathway is the main metabolism route for a number of drugs,
> neurotransmitters and other substances. In particular, paracetamol is
> detoxified by this route, so is used as the basis of "challenge tests" to
> see if this pathway is working.
>
> Sulphur can be in organic forms in foods, including cysteine, methionine and
> glutathione, which then undergo "sulphoxidation" to become inorganic
> sulphate which does the actual detoxification reaction. But it has been
> observed medically that some people have high cysteine levels and low
> sulphate levels, which suggests that the enzyme used for sulphoxidation is
> deficient. This has been observed particularly for patients with
> Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and motor neurone disease. These people do not
> benefit from cysteine supplementation (e.g. with MSM) and need inorganic
> sulphate (magnesium sulphate directly). High cysteine or "organic sulphur"
> levels might cause side-effects as you describe John, but I don't know what
> these might be. Conversely, people where the sulphoxidation pathway and
> enzyme are working normally do fine with cysteine supplements.
>
> Certainly that was what we observed with Sue; MSM did not seem to help her
> at all but magnesium sulphate infusions gave a steady improvement.
>
> This is the snag with prescribing supplements based on general principles
> without doing tests; what benefits 90% of the population may be bad for the
> person with MCS and ES who, by definition, has something unusual about their
> metabolism somewhere.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> johnottawa80
> Sent: 14 September 2009 10:41
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate
>
>
>
>
> > However in Sue's case we found her cysteine levels were OK but sulphate
> > appallingly low, so her body isn't doing the conversion process.
>
> Ian,
> what you write here about sulphur-to-sulphate-conversion is interesting.
> I have over the last couple of years developed tics (unvolunteer muscle
> contractions, or 'jerks'). It seems to increase when I eat
> sulphur-containing foods (like eggs, kale, onions). Could it perhaps be that
> my abillity to convert sulphur to sulphate is very low?
>
> I still don't see how an 'accumulation' of sulphur (cystein etc.) would
> (biochemically) cause the tics though.
> Perhaps anybody has any ideas/explainations?
>
> Is it the liver which does the sulphur-to-sulphate conversion?
> Is this conversion perhaps a part of the sulphate detox pathway, or is this
> two seperate processes?
>
> Ian, can you tell me what kind of test one should do to find out how the
> sulphate liver-detox pathway is functioning? (Name and lab.)
> Or perhaps there's another test which just measures sulphate and cysteinein
> blood?
>
> James
> > Herriot, who wrote a very popular and entertaining series of books about
> > life as a vet (familar to UK readers but probably not in North America?)
> > described how, in the days before drugs, he successfully treated calves
> for
> > lead poisoning (caused by them licking old paint) using Epsom salts
>
> This is very interesting!
> So: Is it the Magnesium or the Sulphate which detoxifies lead?
> Is it perhaps the sulphate which makes the liver's ability to detoxify lead
> increase?
> It is recommended by many 'experts' to eat cystein-rich foods (or take
> N-acetyl-cystein as a supplement) when dealing with heavy metal
> detoxification. I always thought that it was for the thiol-groups in
> cystein, which would have an affinity to e.g. mercury, but perhaps cystein
> is recommended because it (after first being converted to sulphate)
> increases the 'strength' of the sulphate-detox-pathway in the liver?
> If so, if one is low in sulphate, it seems crusial to get sulphate in
> supplement-form (epsom salts) in order to deal with
> heavy-metal-detoxification.
> Does anybody know more about this?
>
> Regards,
> John O.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

furstc0404-2

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

John, I have two questions here, concerning methylation.

Are there any tests for looking at methylation other than Yasko's?

Secondly, if reacting to most compounds in most foods, (as compounds reaches toxicity level, leading to being violently ill) MCS, EMS/ES, allergies, etc, would this involve CYPs in liver, kidneys, digestive system, or methylation or both???

kooky

--- In [hidden email], "johnottawa80" <johnottawa80@...> wrote:

>
> Hi again Ian,
> and thanks for the answer!
> I guess I should do some reading on liver-biochemistry. After doing some googling I now see that the use of Epsom Salts (Mag. phos.) in lead-poisoning probably works because lead combines with the sulphate to make the insoluble precipitate lead sulfate, which would be nontoxic. It has nothing to do with the liver. (And of course heavy metals are handeled through the methylation-pathway, not the sulphation-pathway.)
> John O.
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote:
> >
> > The test which measures both cysteine and sulphate levels is the "Plasma
> > cysteine and sulphate" test. It cost about £100 (so could be $ 100-200 in
> > North America). Sue's was sent to the European Laboratory of Nutrients,
> > which seems to be linked to Diagnostics Inc in NJ, USA. I think Great
> > Smokies Labs do a similar test.
> >
> > In Sue's case her cysteine levels were normal (or slightly high) whereas her
> > sulphate was way below the reference range, which is 1400-3000; when first
> > tested she was down at about 250! She is now round the bottom end of the
> > reference range, so her sulphate levels have gone up by a factor of x6.
> >
> > One of the best descriptions of liver detox in general is in the
> > "Detoxification Profile Application Guide" from Great Smokies Laboratory.
> > The sulphation pathway is the main metabolism route for a number of drugs,
> > neurotransmitters and other substances. In particular, paracetamol is
> > detoxified by this route, so is used as the basis of "challenge tests" to
> > see if this pathway is working.
> >
> > Sulphur can be in organic forms in foods, including cysteine, methionine and
> > glutathione, which then undergo "sulphoxidation" to become inorganic
> > sulphate which does the actual detoxification reaction. But it has been
> > observed medically that some people have high cysteine levels and low
> > sulphate levels, which suggests that the enzyme used for sulphoxidationis
> > deficient. This has been observed particularly for patients with
> > Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and motor neurone disease. These people do not
> > benefit from cysteine supplementation (e.g. with MSM) and need inorganic
> > sulphate (magnesium sulphate directly). High cysteine or "organic sulphur"
> > levels might cause side-effects as you describe John, but I don't know what
> > these might be. Conversely, people where the sulphoxidation pathway and
> > enzyme are working normally do fine with cysteine supplements.
> >
> > Certainly that was what we observed with Sue; MSM did not seem to help her
> > at all but magnesium sulphate infusions gave a steady improvement.
> >
> > This is the snag with prescribing supplements based on general principles
> > without doing tests; what benefits 90% of the population may be bad forthe
> > person with MCS and ES who, by definition, has something unusual about their
> > metabolism somewhere.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > johnottawa80
> > Sent: 14 September 2009 10:41
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > However in Sue's case we found her cysteine levels were OK but sulphate
> > > appallingly low, so her body isn't doing the conversion process.
> >
> > Ian,
> > what you write here about sulphur-to-sulphate-conversion is interesting.
> > I have over the last couple of years developed tics (unvolunteer muscle
> > contractions, or 'jerks'). It seems to increase when I eat
> > sulphur-containing foods (like eggs, kale, onions). Could it perhaps bethat
> > my abillity to convert sulphur to sulphate is very low?
> >
> > I still don't see how an 'accumulation' of sulphur (cystein etc.) would
> > (biochemically) cause the tics though.
> > Perhaps anybody has any ideas/explainations?
> >
> > Is it the liver which does the sulphur-to-sulphate conversion?
> > Is this conversion perhaps a part of the sulphate detox pathway, or is this
> > two seperate processes?
> >
> > Ian, can you tell me what kind of test one should do to find out how the
> > sulphate liver-detox pathway is functioning? (Name and lab.)
> > Or perhaps there's another test which just measures sulphate and cysteine in
> > blood?
> >
> > James
> > > Herriot, who wrote a very popular and entertaining series of books about
> > > life as a vet (familar to UK readers but probably not in North America?)
> > > described how, in the days before drugs, he successfully treated calves
> > for
> > > lead poisoning (caused by them licking old paint) using Epsom salts
> >
> > This is very interesting!
> > So: Is it the Magnesium or the Sulphate which detoxifies lead?
> > Is it perhaps the sulphate which makes the liver's ability to detoxify lead
> > increase?
> > It is recommended by many 'experts' to eat cystein-rich foods (or take
> > N-acetyl-cystein as a supplement) when dealing with heavy metal
> > detoxification. I always thought that it was for the thiol-groups in
> > cystein, which would have an affinity to e.g. mercury, but perhaps cystein
> > is recommended because it (after first being converted to sulphate)
> > increases the 'strength' of the sulphate-detox-pathway in the liver?
> > If so, if one is low in sulphate, it seems crusial to get sulphate in
> > supplement-form (epsom salts) in order to deal with
> > heavy-metal-detoxification.
> > Does anybody know more about this?
> >
> > Regards,
> > John O.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

furstc0404-2

Re: MRI

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Thanks Ian, I am not looking forward to that at all.

Last year, I had an MRI. It had to be interrupted several
times, I was burning all over!! In fact, I turned red all over, and
felt strong burning sensation....

It may have increased ES/EMS not sure.

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

>
> Well, MRI is Magnetic Resonance Imaging, and I think the scanner generates
> quite a large magnetic field, which many ES people are sensitive to. So you
> could see an increase in symptoms. Though I think in the past I saw one or
> two posts frompeople in the group who hadn't been affected. As usual, luck
> of the draw on what affects your personal system.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> furstc0404
> Sent: 14 September 2009 21:04
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: new electrosmog detector
>
>
>
>
>
> This is so true, Mark, I always feel much better outside,
> huge difference.
>
> Nevertheless, it would be interesting to record the transmission
> level and make notes as to frequency "tolerable"
>
> I am having an MRI on Thursday, could this cause an upsurge
> in symptoms?
>
> A few years ago, I had an MRI, and noticed worsening then.
>
> Anyone else with this??
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Marc
> Martin" <marc@> wrote:
> >
> > > Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you shouldbe
> > > in an elektrosmog-poor environment.
> > > And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.
> >
> > Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
> > simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...
> >
> > Marc
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

furstc0404-2

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Hi Ian:

Great Smokies Lab is now called Genova Diagnostics:http://www.gdx.uk.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

I phoned them just now to ask about a test for measuring sulphate and cysteine levels. According to the person I spoke to, they don't do this test.

I also asked if they had a document titled "Detoxification Profile Application Guide" instead they have a sample report for the Detoxignomic Profile.

I did the Detoxigenomic Profile test and to date, no one has been able to explain what some of it means in terms of liver function.

For instance, my severe symptoms and inability to metabolize meds, vits andsupps, most foods, MCS, adverse reactions, allergies etc... appear to showdysfunction in CYP3A4, yet there was a red asterisk by this. Looking at the key at the bottom of the page, it was written "Multiple SNP locations were evaluated for those genes." What does this mean? It does not show it tobe either dysfunctional.

I asked several scientists, doctors, and others who had the test done, including Genova Diagnostics to no avail.

Polymorphisms were shown in 1B1 and 2C9, others with red asterisks as with the CYP3A4.

I already posted about the absent GTSM1 glutathione transferese and SOD etc...

The doctor I was seeing at the time, was convinced according to my severe symptoms, that CYP3A4 would either be absent or dysfunctional. He contactedthe lab and asked about that, to date, no response.

I am not sure how to proceed from here.

Is there a good site explaining this in simple terms, am also interested inreading about methylation pathways and sulphur. I already looked at some sites including Van Konyenburg.

Many thanks

Kooky

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

PUK

Re: new electrosmog detector

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

In a message dated 14/09/2009 16:08:54 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

Detector.
I have one, but find, that it starts at a too high level, giving a false
feeling of securtity.

Since there is a demand for a good detector within a wider range of
frequencies, I could persuade somebody to develope such a metering devoce.
The technical detector part is ready, and it is much more sensitive than
was

Paul UK - For sure the esmog detector is not as sensitive as I am, typical
example - sensing telephone masts before the detector picks them up on a
car journey, typically 1minute before the detector starts to sound it
warning.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc Martin

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

Administrator

In reply to this post by furstc0404-2

> I asked several scientists, doctors, and others who had the test done,
> including Genova Diagnostics to no avail.

Yes, I have long held the belief that lab tests are for the most part
useless, and one of the reasons is that often the doctors who order
these tests don't really know how to interpret the results, or how to
resolve the problems reported in the tests.

Of course, if one has a really good doctor, then the test might be
useful, but doctors this good appear to be quite rare.

Marc

Marc Martin

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

Administrator

In reply to this post by furstc0404-2

> Secondly, if reacting to most compounds in most foods, (as compounds
> reaches toxicity level, leading to being violently ill) MCS, EMS/ES,
> allergies, etc, would this involve CYPs in liver, kidneys, digestive
> system, or methylation or both???

I was just listening to a doctor's lecture yesterday, reviewing a
section on adrenal dysfunction, and the doctor said that a lack
of corticosteriods (usually generated by the adrenals) can
be the cause of some food and environmental sensitivities.
So add adrenal problems to your list of possibilities.

Marc

Loni Rosser

Re: new electrosmog detector

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

Yes how true! Loni

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:32 PM

> Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be
> in an elektrosmog- poor environment.
> And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.

Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

furstc0404-2

Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

I was just listening to a doctor's lecture yesterday, reviewing a
> section on adrenal dysfunction, and the doctor said that a lack
> of corticosteriods (usually generated by the adrenals) can
> be the cause of some food and environmental sensitivities.
> So add adrenal problems to your list of possibilities.
>
> Marc

Good idea Marc, back on the adrenal trail... <<grin>>

Question: is there a good web radio health talk show?

I found one a few weeks ago, but can't remember now. I didn't like it
very much, there was too much promotion of certain
supps.

Lastly, I am now convinced ES/EMF increases my chest pains
and arrythmias, more so from the MAC laptop!!

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > Secondly, if reacting to most compounds in most foods, (as compounds
> > reaches toxicity level, leading to being violently ill) MCS, EMS/ES,
> > allergies, etc, would this involve CYPs in liver, kidneys, digestive
> > system, or methylation or both???
>
> I was just listening to a doctor's lecture yesterday, reviewing a
> section on adrenal dysfunction, and the doctor said that a lack
> of corticosteriods (usually generated by the adrenals) can
> be the cause of some food and environmental sensitivities.
> So add adrenal problems to your list of possibilities.
>
> Marc
>

Loni Rosser

Re: new electrosmog detector

In reply to this post by S.T.

Hi Charles, I, like Sandra, have been waiting to here what your wife SPECIFICALLY did. You are not missing brain cells Sandra because I want to know also. ???????????

Loni

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, S.T. <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: S.T. <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:05 PM

Hi Charles ,

thanks for your response, I understand the need to measure, be it with a measuring detector or by my symptoms. However I am still in the dark . Here is why.

I am trying to understand the background to two of your comments:

1. "WE ARE BACK LIVING IN BREDA where the are many cell masts and my wife is symptoms free"

When the group finally summoned some smarts to ask you how was that possible, you responded

2. "IT IS ALL IN FIXING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM"

This is where I am missing a link (and some marbles but that is my otherissue),

Lets say that by measuring and my symptoms I determined that I was in an RFjungle. Two moths ago I moved to the countryside ( in addition to many other changes) somewhere that could be described as electro-smog poor environment. Here I cannot have a cell phone conversation inside the house because the signal is not strong enough. So now I am under the impression that I am in a low emission environment.

I am trying to find an answer "how do I get from here to the state ofbeing symptoms free like your wife is?" and could you please specify " fixing the immune system?"

Thanks again

Sandra

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be> wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Monday, September 14, 2009, 8:08 AM

Hello Sandra,

you are missing something indeed.

You are not seeing a relationship between a detector and the immune system
improvement.
Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be in
an elektrosmog- poor environment.
And that can only be determind with some sort of detector.

Personnally, I am not fond of the aforementioned Electrosmog Detector.
I have one, but find, that it starts at a too high level, giving a false
feeling of securtity.

Since there is a demand for a good detector within a wider range of
frequencies, I could persuade somebody to develope such a metering devoce.
The technical detector part is ready, and it is much more sensitive than was
expected for.
Now they are developing the housing.
Beware, it is a broadband detector, not a meter!

The price should be around 150 Euro.

As soon as I have more details I will post it here.

That the american dollar is expensive now is not our fault, but those of the
americans who let the Marxx Brothers go broke, and other banks, which
started the Crisis we are now in.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "S.T." <stcro@rogers. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

Soon I will show a very new detector, especially developed for
> electrosensibles.
> Very, very sensitive.
> Range from 10 MHz up to 10 GHz.

Hi Charles,

Ok, I might be missing something here but we have been holding our breath
since you told us about fixing immune system and the ability to function in
a EMF jungle. I am not seeing a relationship between a detector and the
immune system improvement. If you are charging for your findings I
understand, nothing is free and that can be discussed.

Sandra

--- On Sun, 9/13/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 11:15 PM

Hello Ian,

I have no details at the moment.
But it will be available soon in Europe and the US.
(The UK is within Europe, I thought. ;o) )

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:51 AM
Subject: RE: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loni Rosser

RE: MRI

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Could an MRI also be the cause of ES for some? When I was injurred by the mold exposure I had all these tests done including an MRI. Hmmmm . LOni

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] MRI
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:28 PM

Well, MRI is Magnetic Resonance Imaging, and I think the scanner generates
quite a large magnetic field, which many ES people are sensitive to. So you
could see an increase in symptoms. Though I think in the past I saw one or
two posts frompeople in the group who hadn't been affected. As usual, luck
of the draw on what affects your personal system.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
furstc0404
Sent: 14 September 2009 21:04
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] Re: new electrosmog detector

This is so true, Mark, I always feel much better outside,
huge difference.

Nevertheless, it would be interesting to record the transmission
level and make notes as to frequency "tolerable"

I am having an MRI on Thursday, could this cause an upsurge
in symptoms?

A few years ago, I had an MRI, and noticed worsening then.

Anyone else with this??

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Marc
Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you should be
> > in an elektrosmog- poor environment.
> > And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.
>
> Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
> simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...
>
> Marc
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

furstc0404-2

Re: MRI

Loni: yep, about tests, are there any to detect mold
in blood, lungs, etc... I live in a moldy appartment
and still do now. It was treated and repainted,
no longer visible, but still there! Fnx,

K

--- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@...> wrote:

>
> Could an MRI also be the cause of ES for some? When I was injurred by the mold exposure I had all these tests done including an MRI. Hmmmm . LOni
>
> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...>
> Subject: RE: [eSens] MRI
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:28 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, MRI is Magnetic Resonance Imaging, and I think the scanner generates
> quite a large magnetic field, which many ES people are sensitive to. So you
> could see an increase in symptoms. Though I think in the past I saw one or
> two posts frompeople in the group who hadn't been affected. As usual, luck
> of the draw on what affects your personal system.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> furstc0404
> Sent: 14 September 2009 21:04
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [eSens] Re: new electrosmog detector
>
> This is so true, Mark, I always feel much better outside,
> huge difference.
>
> Nevertheless, it would be interesting to record the transmission
> level and make notes as to frequency "tolerable"
>
> I am having an MRI on Thursday, could this cause an upsurge
> in symptoms?
>
> A few years ago, I had an MRI, and noticed worsening then.
>
> Anyone else with this??
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Marc
> Martin" <marc@> wrote:
> >
> > > Well, first of all, in order to start the healing process, you shouldbe
> > > in an elektrosmog- poor environment.
> > > And that can only be determined with some sort of detector.
> >
> > Well, I think some of us can determine if we are in a low EMF area
> > simply by looking around, or simply by how well we feel...
> >
> > Marc
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

S.T.

Re: Adrenal support

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

Also do not forget to take lots of vitamin C with glandular because that really fortifies glandular intake. Of course all other minerals and vitamins too.

Although I am currently not taking glandulars and cortef ( a break after three years) I like reading this particular piece now and again. Myths about burnout

http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/adrenal_burnout.htm

Sandra

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] Adrenal support
To: [hidden email]
Received: Monday, September 14, 2009, 11:28 AM

Hi all,

Recently I've become very aware of how important adequate adrenal
support has been to my initial recovery, relapse, and second recovery.
In fact, this may have always been my #1 issue, including the reason why
I cannot tolerate heavy metal detox without simultaneously supporting
the adrenals.

Looking back, I see that my initial ES problems occurred after I stopped
taking a cortico-steroid nasal spray (Beconase), which is essentially
"adrenal-replacemen t" therapy (and most certainly weakens the adrenals
over the longterm, as they see that they're not needed if the drugs
are doing all of their work).

During my initial recovery, I was taking supplements to help rebuild my
adrenal glands (Drenatrophin PMG and Paraplex from Standard Process).
And I definitely improved during this time.

During my relapse, I was not taking any adrenal support supplements, and
was even becoming caffeine-dependent (Yerba Mate) to have enough
energy to get through the day. Unfortunately, while providing short
term benefits, caffeine causes long term weakening of the adrenals.

During my second recovery, I was back on adrenal support -- Adrenal
Desicated and Drenatrophin PMG from Standard Process. And I just
recently ordered some new supplements, Adrenal Cortex from Nutricology,
IsoCort, and "Dr. Wilsons Adrenal Rebuilder". I must say that IsoCort
really helps out with immediate energy levels, and maybe also EMF
anxiety symptoms. Perhaps this is a healthy caffeine alternative?

So if anyone here is suffering from adrenal insufficiency symptoms, you
might want to look into adding some adrenal support. These symptoms
would include:

* fatigue
* dependency on caffeine to get through the day
* inability to handle stress
* anxiety

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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