Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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Ian, its me Joni again,
Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that I hadthat gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! Thanks again Joni --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM K/Paresh, A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by specific lifestyle changes. However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been major underlying problems over a long period. In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had 2 of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of furstc0404 Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do not believe in detoxing either. K --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > blessings, > Paresh > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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Amongst all polymorphism the GSTM1 (Gluytathione Transferase) is missing, and + SOD2 (Mitochondria) and this is a nasty one because it protects against oxidative stress and free radicals. There are several other malfunctioning genes as below, NAT2, + COMT,CYP1B1,CYP2C9, and on a smaller scale, CYP3A4,CYP2C19, CYP1B1, CYP1A1. So far, I have not met any medical doctors or scientists to explain this. Most of the them said that if the GTSM1 is missing that raising glutathionewould not work. Some said it can't be switched on, and most say that there are connections or pathways we don't know about. I wrote to the Directorof the Lab, and so did my MD, and to date, we have no received a satisfactory reply. I am told that most of the population have some of those missing genes, deletions and malfunctions and that it could be environmental, iatrogenic, andso forth. --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@...> wrote: > > Ian, its me Joni again, > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that I had that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) > > And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. > > It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! > > Thanks again > > Joni > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illnessworse?! > To: [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > K/Paresh, > > A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to > > fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by > > specific lifestyle changes. > > > > However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, > > when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like > > Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods > > as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From > > the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most > > common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons > > (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair > > number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get > > better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the > > immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" > > that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our > > bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one > > metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune > > system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been > > major underlying problems over a long period. > > > > In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had2 > > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The > > faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes > > at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and > > normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two > > grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of > > alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > > furstc0404 > > Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > > worse?! > > > > Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, > > worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do > > not believe in detoxing either. > > > > K > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Paresh" > > <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole > > industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > > > blessings, > > > Paresh > > > > > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> > > earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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Ian: I forgot to add that following DNA testing by a Neurologist, he said there deleted genes, and abnormal genes, which he could not interpret. He aid not to worry about these!!! Probably, because I mentioned the "illness" similar to Sue, started post adverse reactions and side effects of vaccines, and prescribed Fqs and Lariam/Mefloquine... The neurologist could give no interpretation of Nutrigenomics testing from Genova as mentioned in the previous post. --- In [hidden email], "furstc0404" <furstc0404@...> wrote: > > > > Amongst all polymorphism the GSTM1 (Gluytathione Transferase) is missing,and + SOD2 (Mitochondria) and this is a nasty one because it protects against oxidative stress and free radicals. > > There are several other malfunctioning genes as below, NAT2, + COMT,CYP1B1, CYP2C9, and on a smaller scale, CYP3A4,CYP2C19, CYP1B1, CYP1A1. > > So far, I have not met any medical doctors or scientists to explain this.Most of the them said that if the GTSM1 is missing that raising glutathione would not work. Some said it can't be switched on, and most say that there are connections or pathways we don't know about. I wrote to the Director of the Lab, and so did my MD, and to date, we have no received a satisfactory reply. > > I am told that most of the population have some of those missing genes, deletions and malfunctions and that it could be environmental, iatrogenic, and so forth. > > > > --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@> wrote: > > > > Ian, its me Joni again, > > > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > > > You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that Ihad that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) > > > > And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. > > > > It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! > > > > Thanks again > > > > Joni > > > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote: > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > > To: [hidden email] > > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > K/Paresh, > > > > A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is sellingto > > > > fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by > > > > specific lifestyle changes. > > > > > > > > However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, > > > > when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like > > > > Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods > > > > as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From > > > > the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most > > > > common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons > > > > (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair > > > > number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get > > > > better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the > > > > immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" > > > > that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our > > > > bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one > > > > metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune > > > > system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been > > > > major underlying problems over a long period. > > > > > > > > In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had 2 > > > > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The > > > > faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes > > > > at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and > > > > normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two > > > > grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of > > > > alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > > > > furstc0404 > > > > Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 > > > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > > > > worse?! > > > > > > > > Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, > > > > worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do > > > > not believe in detoxing either. > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Paresh" > > > > <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole > > > > industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fixit. > > > > > blessings, > > > > > Paresh > > > > > > > > > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> > > > > earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hello,
on: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* September 2009. In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl www.fscan.be checked by Norton |
Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
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--- In [hidden email], <charles@...> wrote:
> > Hello, > > on: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf > > I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* > September 2009. > > In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > www.fscan.be > checked by Norton > Charles: Thanks for the pdf. I looked at the English version of the website and could not see the link for your You Tube vid? I couldn't find the mention of how you were able to reverse your EMS? Many thanks. Kooky |
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The YouTube films are from a dutch lecture.
If you go to http://www.youtube.com/ and type my name, then you can follow 6 films of about 10 minutes each. But you won't understand the dutch. It is about the same as written in the dutch May issue of *het bitje*. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "furstc0404" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009 > --- In [hidden email], <charles@...> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> on: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf >> >> I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het >> bitje* >> September 2009. >> >> In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. >> >> Greetings, >> Charles Claessens >> member Verband Baubiologie >> www.milieuziektes.nl >> www.milieuziektes.be >> www.hetbitje.nl >> www.fscan.be >> checked by Norton >> > > > Charles: Thanks for the pdf. I looked at the English version of the > website and could not see the link for your You Tube vid? I couldn't find > the mention of how you were able to reverse your EMS? Many thanks. > > Kooky > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness
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In reply to this post by Wolf Man
> Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing?
> Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? I remember a doctor once saying that there are multiple liver pathways, but most of them will only work if you are eating certain foods, and these foods are things that many people don't eat! The list of foods included egg yolks, broccoli, asparagus, kale, garlic, and brussel sprouts. I must admit that I fall into the category of someone who typically doesn't eat any of these things... and eating a bunch of asparagus does prove a detox reaction in me. Marc |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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I eat a Kale salad from Whole Foods & I do feel better after I eat it. Hmmmm. Loni
--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 7:42 AM > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? > Glutathione- transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? I remember a doctor once saying that there are multiple liver pathways, but most of them will only work if you are eating certain foods, and these foods are things that many people don't eat! The list of foods included egg yolks, broccoli, asparagus, kale, garlic, and brussel sprouts. I must admit that I fall into the category of someone who typically doesn't eat any of these things... and eating a bunch of asparagus does prove a detox reaction in me. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Hi Charles, Thanks for the link, and yes, you are right, I can't understand Duch. I may try and have it translated. Kooky --- On Sun, 23/8/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote: From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009 To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, 23 August, 2009, 10:32 AM The YouTube films are from a dutch lecture. If you go to http://www.youtube. com/ and type my name, then you can follow 6 films of about 10 minutes each. But you won't understand the dutch. It is about the same as written in the dutch May issue of *het bitje*. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "furstc0404" <furstc0404@yahoo. com> To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009 > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, <charles@... > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> on: http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf >> >> I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het >> bitje* >> September 2009. >> >> In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. >> >> Greetings, >> Charles Claessens >> member Verband Baubiologie >> www.milieuziektes. nl >> www.milieuziektes. be >> www.hetbitje. nl >> www.fscan.be >> checked by Norton >> > > > Charles: Thanks for the pdf. I looked at the English version of the > website and could not see the link for your You Tube vid? I couldn't find > the mention of how you were able to reverse your EMS? Many thanks. > > Kooky > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
The list of vegetables listed are spot on. Unfortunately, I can't metabolize most compouunds in those. Eating any one them causes toxicity, and severe illness lasting for many days!! It includes other fruits and veggies with same type of compounds, blueberries for instance makes me violently ill.I haven't met anyone else with this problem. Kooky --- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote: > > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? > > Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > I remember a doctor once saying that there are multiple liver pathways, > but most of them will only work if you are eating certain foods, and > these foods are things that many people don't eat! The list of foods > included egg yolks, broccoli, asparagus, kale, garlic, and brussel > sprouts. I must admit that I fall into the category of someone who > typically doesn't eat any of these things... and eating a bunch > of asparagus does prove a detox reaction in me. > > Marc > |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Hi Charles,
Just read your newsletter *het bitje*. I was wondering if you could shed some light on the "device" to limit the effects of electrosmog. Is this something you're developing? is it related to the "bioprotect" devices? Thanks, Alan --- In [hidden email], <charles@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > on: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf > > I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* > September 2009. > > In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > www.fscan.be > checked by Norton > |
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Hello Alan,
this device is a special pilot test. And at this stage, no further information is available. And no, it is not related to the Bioprotect card, which I still find the best alternative device around, abd it is still also the cheapest. Over the years, we have tested a large number of such *things*. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "abailey63" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009 > Hi Charles, > Just read your newsletter *het bitje*. I was wondering if you could shed > some light on the "device" to limit the effects of electrosmog. Is this > something you're developing? is it related to the "bioprotect" devices? > > Thanks, Alan > > --- In [hidden email], <charles@...> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> on: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf >> >> I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het >> bitje* >> September 2009. >> >> In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. >> >> Greetings, >> Charles Claessens >> member Verband Baubiologie >> www.milieuziektes.nl >> www.milieuziektes.be >> www.hetbitje.nl >> www.fscan.be >> checked by Norton >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Hi Joni, combined reply to your 2 emails.
Sue's glutathione and sulphate were originally tested (among many other things) by specific blood tests (which we have repeated since a couple of times and seen improvements under treatment). The genetic test came much later (this year) and it is indeed GSTM-1 that is missing. A couple of others too, I think SOD may have been one of them. The second broken liver pathway was sulphate, hence the need for inorganic sulphate to top things up. This one has not been proven genetically. Normally sulphate deficiencies are due to low cysteine and are solved by supplementing cysteine or other sulphur-type compounds. However Sue's cysteine level is normal so it seems that the cysteine-sulphate conversion (organic to inorganic sulphur) is broken. There were also suggestions that a third pathway was suspect - glucoronidation? Gilbert's disease? - but this was less important. I personally believe liver pathway problems are a common cause for quite a lot of people with severe chronic illnesses e.g. MCS and ES, although the exact combination of problems can vary between different people. But basically the liver can't do its detoxing job as well as in other people and, if illnesses and other stresses become too severe, you get a "system crash" (Sue's own description, borrowed from computer terminology). Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wolf Man Sent: 23 August 2009 07:29 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Ian, its me Joni again, Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that I had that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! Thanks again Joni --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM K/Paresh, A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by specific lifestyle changes. However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been major underlying problems over a long period. In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had 2 of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of furstc0404 Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do not believe in detoxing either. K --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > blessings, > Paresh > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by furstc0404-2
Could you explain further what is meant by "polymorphism" in this context?
I think there's a lot that is not known yet in this area. On glutathione, all I can say is that Sue feels a definite improvement each time she gets an infusion, and we're sure it's not just psychological. She can tell when she needs a "top-up" because her MCS starts to get worse. thanks, Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of furstc0404 Sent: 23 August 2009 11:01 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Amongst all polymorphism the GSTM1 (Gluytathione Transferase) is missing, and + SOD2 (Mitochondria) and this is a nasty one because it protects against oxidative stress and free radicals. There are several other malfunctioning genes as below, NAT2, + COMT,CYP1B1, CYP2C9, and on a smaller scale, CYP3A4,CYP2C19, CYP1B1, CYP1A1. So far, I have not met any medical doctors or scientists to explain this. Most of the them said that if the GTSM1 is missing that raising glutathione would not work. Some said it can't be switched on, and most say that there are connections or pathways we don't know about. I wrote to the Director of the Lab, and so did my MD, and to date, we have no received a satisfactory reply. I am told that most of the population have some of those missing genes, deletions and malfunctions and that it could be environmental, iatrogenic, and so forth. --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, Wolf Man <napanft@...> wrote: > > Ian, its me Joni again, > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that I had that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) > > And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. > > It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! > > Thanks again > > Joni > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > K/Paresh, > > A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to > > fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by > > specific lifestyle changes. > > > > However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, > > when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like > > Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods > > as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? > > the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most > > common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons > > (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair > > number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get > > better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the > > immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" > > that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our > > bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one > > metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune > > system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been > > major underlying problems over a long period. > > > > In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had > > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The > > faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes > > at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and > > normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two > > grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of > > alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > > furstc0404 > > Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > > worse?! > > > > Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing > > worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do > > not believe in detoxing either. > > > > K > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Paresh" > > <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole > > industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix > > > blessings, > > > Paresh > > > > > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> > > earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Wolf Man
My son, who had an autism spectrum disorder, holds his head when he types on a computer. I'm sure that EMF negatively impacts him, like me. Following Dr. Amy Yasko's protocol to treat his autism, I got nutrigenomics tests for him. His autism treatment was more important that my ES symptoms. He has genetic mutations in the following SNPs:
ACE deletion CBS C699T +/- CBS A360A +/- MTHFR A1298C +/- MTHFR C677T +/- MTHFR F435F +/+ COMT L136L +/+ MOA A R297R +/+ MTRR S257T +/- SUOX L300L +/+ SUOX S370S +/+ VDR Bsm/Taq +/- VDR Taq +/- His mitochondria (and many other areas) wasn't working properly due to these genetic mutuations. Using supplements to bypass these genetic mutuations,as well as chelation with EDTA, helped him detoxify. I hope using DNA to tailor our treatment using natural supplements will guide medical treatment in the future. Although my DNA is probably similar tomy son's, I just don't have the money to do the same nutrigenomic testing for myself. My ES symptoms are mild. They may be due to excessive mercury in my system, as reported by energy testing. I'm not sure that I believe in energy testing though. I agree that it would be very interesting to compare our nutrigenomic testing results. Christine Hoch Executive Director Moms for Safe Wireless --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@...> wrote: > > Ian, its me Joni again, > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to that I had that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) > > And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with CYP2C19. > > It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS people have some of these things in common! > > Thanks again > > Joni > > |
Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!
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In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Hi Mary: Genova Lab (worldwide),and called Nutrigenomics. Apparently, Nutreveal is more useful and comprehensive, and more expensive!! --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hi Mary, > We had to go to a specialist private hospital in the UK - Breakspear > Hospital. The genetic test was I think done by a small specialist lab in > Devon. Some of the Breakspear tests have to be done in the USA. > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > epicsconartist > Sent: 27 August 2009 16:08 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > worse?! > > > > > Ian, > Can you please tell me what kind of doctor you went to that tested you for > all these things? What lab you used? > Mary > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "furstc0404" > <furstc0404@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Amongst all polymorphism the GSTM1 (Gluytathione Transferase) is missing, > and + SOD2 (Mitochondria) and this is a nasty one because it protects > against oxidative stress and free radicals. > > > > There are several other malfunctioning genes as below, NAT2, + > COMT,CYP1B1, CYP2C9, and on a smaller scale, CYP3A4,CYP2C19, CYP1B1, CYP1A1. > > > > So far, I have not met any medical doctors or scientists to explain this. > Most of the them said that if the GTSM1 is missing that raising glutathione > would not work. Some said it can't be switched on, and most say that there > are connections or pathways we don't know about. I wrote to the Director of > the Lab, and so did my MD, and to date, we have no received a satisfactory > reply. > > > > I am told that most of the population have some of those missing genes, > deletions and malfunctions and that it could be environmental, iatrogenic, > and so forth. > > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, Wolf Man > <napanft@> wrote: > > > > > > Ian, its me Joni again, > > > > > > Do you remember what were those 2 liver pathways that were missing? > Glutathione-transferase GSTM1 maybe? And what else? > > > > > > You see I have had this detoxigenomic test done and according to thatI > had that gene missing plus problems with Superoxidase dismutase (SOD2), > catechol-o-methyl transferase (COMT) and N-acetyl-transferase (NAT2) > > > > > > And how about her CYP450 enzymes? Any problems there? I have one with > CYP2C19. > > > > > > It would be very interesting to see if we all EMF-sick and/or MCS/CFS > people have some of these things in common! > > > > > > Thanks again > > > > > > Joni > > > > > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@> > > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this > illness worse?! > > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > > > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 5:42 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > K/Paresh, > > > > > > A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling > to > > > > > > fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by > > > > > > specific lifestyle changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it > happens, > > > > > > when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like > > > > > > Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and > foods > > > > > > as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? > From > > > > > > the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most > > > > > > common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various > reasons > > > > > > (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair > > > > > > number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get > > > > > > better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the > > > > > > immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle > detox" > > > > > > that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our > > > > > > bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one > > > > > > metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major > immune > > > > > > system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been > > > > > > major underlying problems over a long period. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has > had 2 > > > > > > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. > The > > > > > > faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic > fumes > > > > > > at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and > > > > > > normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two > > > > > > grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance > of > > > > > > alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf > Of > > > > > > furstc0404 > > > > > > Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 > > > > > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > > > > > > worse?! > > > > > > > > > > > > Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing > industry, > > > > > > worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who > do > > > > > > not believe in detoxing either. > > > > > > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, > "Paresh" > > > > > > <sunmoonyoga@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole > > > > > > industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix > it. > > > > > > > blessings, > > > > > > > Paresh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://home. <http://home. earthlink. net/~sunmoonyoga /> > > > > > > earthlink.net/ ~sunmoonyoga/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus. Which leads to another big question, is this response different between electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward! The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be partly additive. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 Hello, on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf> .nl/bitjeE2909c.pdf I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* September 2009. In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl www.fscan.be checked by Norton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
RE: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni
--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus. Which leads to another big question, is this response different between electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward! The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be partly additive. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of charles@milieuziekt es.be Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 Hello, on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf> .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* September 2009. In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl www.fscan.be checked by Norton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
RE: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
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Administrator
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> Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system?
> What did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni Yes, that does seem to be the question, and what works great for one person may make another person worse. I know that Charles' wife had great improvement from using one of those ionic foot baths, but when I tried this it made me much, much worse. Marc |
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In reply to this post by Loni Rosser
I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a horse. LOL
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Loni <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 To: [hidden email] Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus. Which leads to another big question, is this response different between electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward! The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be partly additive. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of charles@milieuziekt es.be Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009 Hello, on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf> .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje* September 2009. In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl www.fscan.be checked by Norton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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