Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver & nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.
 
I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S.T. <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM


 



I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting  a horse.  LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

 

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system?  What did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog?  Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

 

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all
 
I came across a great website recently - primarily concentrating on ME/CFS but a lot of the stuff it covers would apply equally to ES since I saw on it some of the stuff we have been talkinb about on this forum. It is very detailed and covers a lot of groundand is definitely worth a look [if you canget past the formal language that it is written in - don't let that put you off]. It is called www.health-spy.com
 
It is written by a guy who calls himself black spy and who has suffered from ME CFS. there is a section on toxins where he writes in considerable detail about neurobiotoxins, and a section on enerly- including electromagnetics and a good section on nutrition and the digestive system and a good section on moulds yeasts etc. It takes ages to read through all of it but it is definitely worth a look. I just wish I had someone who could translate the technical bits and say now forst you need to do X then you should do Y and when you have done that you can move on to Z etc
 
BW
 
Steph


--- On Tue, 8/9/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009, 4:53 PM


 



> Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system?
> What did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog?  Loni

Yes, that does seem to be the question, and what works great for one
person may make another person worse. I know that Charles' wife had
great improvement from using one of those ionic foot baths, but when I
tried this it made me much, much worse.

Marc
















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 09/09/2009 18:54:46 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is
liver & nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that
can be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being
in the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's
where I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.




Paul uk replies - Or maybe it is just another sense with our bodies giving
us fair warning, I think the answer is in our genes. I like to compare the
situation to superman and his old arch enemy lex luther who use the deadly
cryptonite against him, perhaps we are the super men and women, but of
course this is not a movie we may lose against the baddy ! but knowing so many
of you I dont think you will let the sand be kicked in your face without a
fight !!!

p


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009




I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro%40rogers.com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro%40rogers.com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM



I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM



Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM



Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Loni,
 
I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervoussystem are involved, along with the immune system.  At least this seems to be the case with me personally. 

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM


 



Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ian:  What treatment did she find that worked the most for her? I amconsidering NAET or some type of acupuncture. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 4:01 PM


 



Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Diane & Ian:
 
When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root cause is the hard question.
 
If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts with the right kinds of foods in my experience.
 
The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back windowthat are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded you know.
 
Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM


 



Hi, Loni,
 
I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervoussystem are involved, along with the immune system.  At least this seems to be the case with me personally. 

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM

 

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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I would go along with those posts below stating that immune system problemshave to be the major cause in this whole issue, whether it has been damaged by external factors or internal health issues.

I myself have type 1 diabetes, basically caused by the immune system going haywire and attacking cells in the pancreas that produce insulin. So I often wondered if the immune system was the crux of my ES problem since becoming electrosensitive nearly three years ago. I did ask my doctor, who never heard of ES of course, whether I may have an immune problem. He did a normalblood test, and with the white blood cell count showing up ok, he determined that it wasn't an immune system issue. I have since gone on to learn, ashas been stated by others on this forum, that the immune system is a very complex system,and a simple blood test such as that doesn't give the whole picture. (As a matter of interest, has anyone gone to see an immunologist about the problem ever, or would it be worth the bother?)

Recently, my interest was taken by an article I came across in a science magazine related to the immune system and diabetes. Trials on type 1 diabetics carried out in Brazil, but run in coordination with an American university doctor, saw 15 participants basically having their immune systems shut down, and having new stem cells injected into their bodies to build a new, healthier immune system. For 13 of the 15 people, their "new" immune system stopped attacking their pancreatic cells, and they were able to stop taking insulin injections. see here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18040485/.htm
The article does mention the danger of the procedure; the patients' old immune systems were shut down using chemotherapy, which is obviously dangerous. Other risks are involved also.
The article does go on to mention that this kind of procedure was also successful with other autoimmune diseases, such as lupus and multiple sclerosis. Obviously this kind of thing is still in the early stages of research anddevelopment, but I was just thinking, that it might offer some potential hope for something like ES if it is indeed an immune system malfunction or whatever. Obviously eradicating all wireless and other ES-causing factors would be preferable in the meantime!

Sean


--- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@...> wrote:

Hi Ian
 
Glad to hear sue is doing well - like you I think it the immune liver andneurological systems are all involved. I reckin most of us have a genetic defect whereby we don't detocify as well as other people who are unaffected and that it applies to metals and other toxins, plus a build up of moulds and what is left behind by viruses and other parasites.
 
What is an ozone generator? I have never heard of this before - and where would you get one?
 
Thanks
 
Steph

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, 9 September, 2009, 11:01 PM


 



Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Loni, the most successful treatment for Sue has been intravenous
infusions, particularly glutathione and magnesium sulphate. She had tests
which showed that these essential liver chemicals were low (confirmed more
recently by a genetic test). So for other people with a different root
cause, this may not work. We tried lots of other things such as acupuncture
and bioresonance machines which had no effect (or sometimes made things
worse).

One thing that did help was that the problems had begun when she had had her
wisdom teeth out (giving chronic fatigue symptoms) and one area of jaw was
tender, so we went to a cavitation dentist and he found a cavity which he
opened and mended, after which Sue did a lot better. We didn't dare do a
Cavitat scan at the time, but had one a couple of years later which showed
everything was now OK. There is also increasing evidence that general
anasthetic can seriously harm some people with susceptible immune systems,
and Sue had it for her extraction. This is what makes things so confusing,
lots of factors all rolled in together.

Sue was also found to have borderline low thyroid and a poor conversion of
T4 to T3. She did not benefit from standard thyroxine (T4 only) but is
definitely helped by small doses of Armour thyroid (T4/T3 mixed) -this keep
her more mentally alert and reduces "brain fog".

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009




Hi Ian: What treatment did she find that worked the most for her? I am
considering NAET or some type of acupuncture. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
<mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net>
ukgateway.net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 4:01 PM



Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, as you say, finding the underlying root cause is very hard, and often
expensive :-(

For antennas and masts, it's worth remembering that microwaves pass straight
through glass but are significantly absorbed by walls (brick, wood etc). Sue
found metallised netting, especially over windows, helped a lot. We could
see the difference easily using the "electrosmog detector" with or without
the netting.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:58
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009




Hi Diane & Ian:

When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a
systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The
question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started
the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root
cause is the hard question.

If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts
with the right kinds of foods in my experience.

The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back window
that are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded
you know.

Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422%40yahoo.com>
com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422%40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM



Hi, Loni,

I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervous
system are involved, along with the immune system. At least this seems to
be the case with me personally.

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM



Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Sandi,
 
This post will sound like I am saying every one here has celiac disease, but I don't believe that at all.  Just keep reading to get to the meat of what I am saying.....  Personally, I was told celiac disease causes an over-active immune system.  Celiac disease is at the heart of my liver problems too.  Run amok cytokines and inflammation loops.... are all too common in cd.  Cd is also linked to auto-immune diseases of every ilk and isitself an auto-immune disease.  (I am also type 2 diabetic, tho technically borderline, since I chose to arrest it there by a low-carb, no sugar orsugar alcohols diet before it got out of control.) 
 
I keep abreast of recent research as best I can.  Cd is also a channelopathy (an ion channel disease).  I bring this up because I have read that ES researchers and docs think ES has the potential to affect only 20% or so of the population.  Ion channel diseases are also thought to affect this many.  Dr Marios Hadjivassilious of the UK discovered a tight junction permeability gene (a channelopathy term) which he estimates exists in 20-23% of the population and without that gene you can have all the other cd genes but not get cd.  Now I have read that a celiac research doc has tiedthis to a genetic mutation precurser molecule which exists in approximately 20% of the population.  This part of the population includes cd and other auto-immune diseased people.  I am excited.  I hope it leads to a resolution of our problems, Sandi.  Some may consider this off-topic,but I really feel ES is connected into all of this.  You can read about this
molecule discovery here:
 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090907162322.htm
 
This celiac pediatrician's wife has MS, Sandi.  He started his research looking for a cure for MS.  His ultimate goal is to find a cure which addresses all the auto-immune diseases at one time.  I hope you can hold on to hope of a cure without doing something drastic and irreversible.  He has made great progress.
 
my best to you, Dear,
Diane
 


--- On Thu, 9/10/09, seandaly33 <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: seandaly33 <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:47 PM


 



I would go along with those posts below stating that immune system problemshave to be the major cause in this whole issue, whether it has been damaged by external factors or internal health issues.

I myself have type 1 diabetes, basically caused by the immune system going haywire and attacking cells in the pancreas that produce insulin. So I often wondered if the immune system was the crux of my ES problem since becoming electrosensitive nearly three years ago. I did ask my doctor, who never heard of ES of course, whether I may have an immune problem. He did a normalblood test, and with the white blood cell count showing up ok, he determined that it wasn't an immune system issue. I have since gone on to learn, ashas been stated by others on this forum, that the immune system is a very complex system,and a simple blood test such as that doesn't give the whole picture. (As a matter of interest, has anyone gone to see an immunologist about the problem ever, or would it be worth the bother?)

Recently, my interest was taken by an article I came across in a science magazine related to the immune system and diabetes. Trials on type 1 diabetics carried out in Brazil, but run in coordination with an American university doctor, saw 15 participants basically having their immune systems shut down, and having new stem cells injected into their bodies to build a new, healthier immune system. For 13 of the 15 people, their "new" immune system stopped attacking their pancreatic cells, and they were able to stop taking insulin injections. see here: http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 18040485/ .htm
The article does mention the danger of the procedure; the patients' old immune systems were shut down using chemotherapy, which is obviously dangerous. Other risks are involved also.
The article does go on to mention that this kind of procedure was also successful with other autoimmune diseases, such as lupus and multiple sclerosis. Obviously this kind of thing is still in the early stages of research anddevelopment, but I was just thinking, that it might offer some potential hope for something like ES if it is indeed an immune system malfunction or whatever. Obviously eradicating all wireless and other ES-causing factors would be preferable in the meantime!

Sean

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Loni <loni326@... > wrote:
















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Loni,
 
You can do alot worse than treating with nutrition.  I think that is probably the best place to start, too.  As for the chicken and egg.... maybe my post to Sandi might shed some light.  In my case, I was ill from childhood with a type of EMS, so it is difficult for me to blame it all on technology.  Tho I suppose rfs could have still been involved.
 
be well, Dear,
Diane

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:57 PM


 



Hi Diane & Ian:
 
When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root cause is the hard question.
 
If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts with the right kinds of foods in my experience.
 
The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back windowthat are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded you know.
 
Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM

 

Hi, Loni,
 
I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervoussystem are involved, along with the immune system.  At least this seems to be the case with me personally. 

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM

 

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also have Celiac, thyroid disease, atopy, and other autoimmune diseases. I'm allergic to many things, both food, nickel and environmental. I also have very low immune Iga, so I'm susceptible to infections. And I have an over-eager immune IgE system, hence the many allergies. And, I have MCS.

Perhaps, our systems are super-tuned to attack substances that can harm it, and EMFs certainly are harmful to some of us. And possibly to everyone, whether they know it or not.

Donnie

"Sue was also found to have borderline low thyroid and a poor conversion of
T4 to T3. She did not benefit from standard thyroxine (T4 only) but is
definitely helped by small doses of Armour thyroid (T4/T3 mixed) -this keep
her more mentally alert and reduces "brain fog"."

I am glad someone else has mentioned this issue. I know that this may soundso frustrating and kind of condescending but I am convinced that many people suffer from thyroid resistance syndrome in addition to ES. I play this daily chicken and egg situation trying to figure out what came first, thyroid symptoms or ES.
 
 I cannot even take ARMOUR like Sue because it still has T3 in it and I am unable to convert it to T4, not even a tiny bit.  I take straight T4 through Cytomel. Borderline thyroid blood test already has a disastrous effect on the body. I have heard so many times on TV and other sources, that the thyroid diseases are the most mismanaged health conditions of our time.
 
The other thing that is equally frustrating is the fibromyalgia term. For years I was going from one inept endocrinologist to another. Endocrinologist do not recognize the term fibromyalgia in association with the thyroid. Endo  would send me back to the rheumathologist who would repeatedly diagnose me with fybromyalgia by pinpointing all 18 sore spots. Endo wouldignore it. Amongst themselves they played this game for 3 years.
 
Luckily one day I heard about  Dr. John Lowe and learned everything that is to learn about fibro and thyroid issues. Although fibromyagia generally means "inflamed or diseased muscle and connective tissue" thyroid experts explain that it truly comes form nothing but low thyroid. Unfortunately the term has now been used an abused by so many. Precursor of fibromyalgia is CFS, also another term that keeps popping up everywhere. CFS can last for a quite  a number of years before the thyroid completely dies and becomes  a full blown fibro. Since I have been  diagnosed and started T4,  I got at least a half of my life back. Now the other half needs to be fixed.
 
 I said it before but I truly believe that everyone should go to this website www.drlowe.com and figure out if they have low thyroid symptoms. Also, if you hear the term "borderline" low thyroid from your doctor and he isnot willing to do anything about it, run as fast as you can. The blood test measurement for  thyroid are set so low that you can barley function when you are borderline. So far, France, Sweden and Switzerland have changed their blood result measurement and sure enough, a lot of people have beenhelped. I believe now that Oprah has admitted to have been suffering from low thyroid, North America will also wake up.
 
Why is this so important for ES sufferers? I doubt that a recovery from ES is possible, if there are co-existing thyroid issues that have not beendealt with. There are only two organs in our body that are not affected bythyroid, spleen and eye retina. For everything else, thyroid hormones are crucial.
 
Sandra


--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] liver treatments, cavitations, thyroid etc
To: [hidden email]
Received: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:34 PM


 



Hi Loni, the most successful treatment for Sue has been intravenous
infusions, particularly glutathione and magnesium sulphate. She had tests
which showed that these essential liver chemicals were low (confirmed more
recently by a genetic test). So for other people with a different root
cause, this may not work. We tried lots of other things such as acupuncture
and bioresonance machines which had no effect (or sometimes made things
worse).

One thing that did help was that the problems had begun when she had had her
wisdom teeth out (giving chronic fatigue symptoms) and one area of jaw was
tender, so we went to a cavitation dentist and he found a cavity which he
opened and mended, after which Sue did a lot better. We didn't dare do a
Cavitat scan at the time, but had one a couple of years later which showed
everything was now OK. There is also increasing evidence that general
anasthetic can seriously harm some people with susceptible immune systems,
and Sue had it for her extraction. This is what makes things so confusing,
lots of factors all rolled in together.

Sue was also found to have borderline low thyroid and a poor conversion of
T4 to T3. She did not benefit from standard thyroxine (T4 only) but is
definitely helped by small doses of Armour thyroid (T4/T3 mixed) -this keep
her more mentally alert and reduces "brain fog".

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:46
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hi Ian: What treatment did she find that worked the most for her? I am
considering NAET or some type of acupuncture. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
<mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net>
ukgateway.net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 4:01 PM

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh thanks Ian. I do the injectable glutitithione myself. What does the mag sulphate do if you know? I'll have to look in to that. I also have low glutithione. Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] liver treatments, cavitations, thyroid etc
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:34 PM


 



Hi Loni, the most successful treatment for Sue has been intravenous
infusions, particularly glutathione and magnesium sulphate. She had tests
which showed that these essential liver chemicals were low (confirmed more
recently by a genetic test). So for other people with a different root
cause, this may not work. We tried lots of other things such as acupuncture
and bioresonance machines which had no effect (or sometimes made things
worse).

One thing that did help was that the problems had begun when she had had her
wisdom teeth out (giving chronic fatigue symptoms) and one area of jaw was
tender, so we went to a cavitation dentist and he found a cavity which he
opened and mended, after which Sue did a lot better. We didn't dare do a
Cavitat scan at the time, but had one a couple of years later which showed
everything was now OK. There is also increasing evidence that general
anasthetic can seriously harm some people with susceptible immune systems,
and Sue had it for her extraction. This is what makes things so confusing,
lots of factors all rolled in together.

Sue was also found to have borderline low thyroid and a poor conversion of
T4 to T3. She did not benefit from standard thyroxine (T4 only) but is
definitely helped by small doses of Armour thyroid (T4/T3 mixed) -this keep
her more mentally alert and reduces "brain fog".

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:46
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hi Ian: What treatment did she find that worked the most for her? I am
considering NAET or some type of acupuncture. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
<mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net>
ukgateway.net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 4:01 PM

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I put the window tint RF Shield on all the windows so it did help but stillis a problem for me. Better though. Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:41 PM


 



Yes, as you say, finding the underlying root cause is very hard, and often
expensive :-(

For antennas and masts, it's worth remembering that microwaves pass straight
through glass but are significantly absorbed by walls (brick, wood etc). Sue
found metallised netting, especially over windows, helped a lot. We could
see the difference easily using the "electrosmog detector" with or without
the netting.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:58
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hi Diane & Ian:

When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a
systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The
question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started
the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root
cause is the hard question.

If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts
with the right kinds of foods in my experience.

The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back window
that are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded
you know.

Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com>
com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM

Hi, Loni,

I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervous
system are involved, along with the immune system. At least this seems to
be the case with me personally.

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Where did  you get the electrosmog detector?

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:41 PM


 



Yes, as you say, finding the underlying root cause is very hard, and often
expensive :-(

For antennas and masts, it's worth remembering that microwaves pass straight
through glass but are significantly absorbed by walls (brick, wood etc). Sue
found metallised netting, especially over windows, helped a lot. We could
see the difference easily using the "electrosmog detector" with or without
the netting.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:58
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hi Diane & Ian:

When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a
systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The
question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started
the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root
cause is the hard question.

If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts
with the right kinds of foods in my experience.

The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back window
that are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded
you know.

Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com>
com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM

Hi, Loni,

I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervous
system are involved, along with the immune system. At least this seems to
be the case with me personally.

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Soon I will show a very new detector, especially developed for
electrosensibles.
Very, very sensitive.
Range from 10 MHz up to 10 GHz.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton



----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009


Where did you get the electrosmog detector?

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 3:41 PM






Yes, as you say, finding the underlying root cause is very hard, and often
expensive :-(

For antennas and masts, it's worth remembering that microwaves pass straight
through glass but are significantly absorbed by walls (brick, wood etc). Sue
found metallised netting, especially over windows, helped a lot. We could
see the difference easily using the "electrosmog detector" with or without
the netting.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 10 September 2009 17:58
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hi Diane & Ian:

When we get to the point where we are effected to this degree it has to be a
systemic failure of sorts. A wholistic approach is what is called for. The
question for us is what system in the body was initially weak that started
the cascade?! Which came first the chicken or the egg? Getting to the root
cause is the hard question.

If we treat the whole body we are going in the right direction & that starts
with the right kinds of foods in my experience.

The difficulty for me are the 8 and growing antennas outside my back window
that are visible. quarter mile away. Hard to fight when you are bombarded
you know.

Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com>
com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. <mailto:evie15422% 40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:55 AM

Hi, Loni,

I agree with you also that the liver and (at least) the autonomic nervous
system are involved, along with the immune system. At least this seems to
be the case with me personally.

be well,
Diane
--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:01 PM

Hi Loni, yes definitely agree that liver and neurological system can play a
major part, I tend to lump them all together with immune system. Some of my
earlier posts in the archive describe how Sue has made progress and the
treatment she's had - but as Marc says, what works for one person may not
for another. Ideally one will find the root cause but there are a lot of
linked possibilities and the tests are expensive. Basically Sue is now able
to lead a much more normal life than 4 years ago, but we still turn the
power off at night and she doesn't use a computer and only infrequently
watches TV. Our current house is about a mile from the nearest mast. She
drove an old car for some years but can now manage a normal one, however we
have just managed to buy a newish car without central locking or electric
windows which is great for her. We avoid getting new furniture or other
things that offgas; if they do, we use an ozone generator - this reduces the
metabolic load on the liver.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Loni
Sent: 09 September 2009 18:54
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

I personally believe it is more than just immune system. I think it is liver
& nervous system damage as well. Living in the country as hard as that can
be being isolated is what we need to heal & have quality of life. Being in
the city & feeling miserable is just not worth it. Unfortuneatly, it's where
I have to be for now. Trying to make the best of it.

I'm working on healing the body but when it is constantly bombarded it makes
it very difficult. Loni

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
wrote:

From: S.T. <stcro@rogers. <mailto:stcro% 40rogers. com> com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:28 PM

I have a feeling that Charles has stumbled upon something big and hopefully
he finds it in his heart to share it with us, soon. I am dying to hear it. I
cannot imagine that I would be able to live back in Toronto. Not I do not
like it in the country just completely isolated and thinking of getting a
horse. LOL

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Received: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 8:28 AM

Where is the info on what to do to fix or improve the immune system? What
did your wife do to be able to handle all the electrosmog? Loni

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:44 PM

Perhaps the most interesting thing in Charles' publication is the test he
used, which actually shows a measurable response to an electrical stimulus.

Which leads to another big question, is this response different between
electrosensibles and "normal" people, if both are tested? Because if so, we
have a potential test to demonstrate that some people are ES under
conditions when most are OK. This would be an important step forward!

The suggested link between immune system weakness and susceptibility to ES
fits with lots of other evidence and suggestions made in this group over the
past few years. Worth noting, however, that there are a small number of
people whose medical histories do not seem to show any significant immune
problems (or MCS etc), including a couple of high-profile cases (Brian
Stein). However, these people seem to have been exposed to exceptionally
high levels of mobile phone radiation etc. So the two effects appear to be
partly additive.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
charles@milieuziekt es.be
Sent: 23 August 2009 15:03
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] english version of *het bitje* september 2009

Hello,

on: http://www.hetbitje <http://www.hetbitje .nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf>
.nl/bitjeE2909c. pdf

I have placed now the english version of my free publication of *het bitje*
September 2009.

In it I describe some measurements on electrosensible persons directly.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
www.fscan.be
checked by Norton

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I think initial gut disorders could be the main trigger in our health decline. I have leaky gut but tested ok for celiac disease however I cannot tolerate gluten really. I try to stay away from it but it is very hard. In sooooooooooo many things you know.
 
70% of your immune system is your gut! so I am trying to heal my gut & support other organs as well as eating better. More raw foods for vitamins & minerals & ENZYMES!
 
EeeeeeSH! Lot of work.
 
Loni

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new genetic molecule discovery (formerly "Het bitje..."
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:43 PM


 



Hi, Sandi,
 
This post will sound like I am saying every one here has celiac disease, but I don't believe that at all.  Just keep reading to get to the meat of what I am saying.....  Personally, I was told celiac disease causes an over-active immune system.  Celiac disease is at the heart of my liver problems too.  Run amok cytokines and inflammation loops.... are all too common in cd.  Cd is also linked to auto-immune diseases of every ilk and isitself an auto-immune disease.  (I am also type 2 diabetic, tho technically borderline, since I chose to arrest it there by a low-carb, no sugar orsugar alcohols diet before it got out of control.) 
 
I keep abreast of recent research as best I can.  Cd is also a channelopathy (an ion channel disease).  I bring this up because I have read that ES researchers and docs think ES has the potential to affect only 20% or so of the population.  Ion channel diseases are also thought to affect this many.  Dr Marios Hadjivassilious of the UK discovered a tight junction permeability gene (a channelopathy term) which he estimates exists in 20-23% of the population and without that gene you can have all the other cd genes but not get cd.  Now I have read that a celiac research doc has tiedthis to a genetic mutation precurser molecule which exists in approximately 20% of the population.  This part of the population includes cd and other auto-immune diseased people.  I am excited.  I hope it leads to a resolution of our problems, Sandi.  Some may consider this off-topic,but I really feel ES is connected into all of this.  You can read about this
molecule discovery here:
 
http://www.scienced aily.com/ releases/ 2009/09/09090716 2322.htm
 
This celiac pediatrician' s wife has MS, Sandi.  He started his research looking for a cure for MS.  His ultimate goal is to find a cure which addresses all the auto-immune diseases at one time.  I hope you can hold on to hope of a cure without doing something drastic and irreversible.  He has made great progress.
 
my best to you, Dear,
Diane
 

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, seandaly33 <seandaly33@hotmail. com> wrote:

From: seandaly33 <seandaly33@hotmail. com>
Subject: [eSens] Re: english version of *het bitje* september 2009
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 1:47 PM

 

I would go along with those posts below stating that immune system problemshave to be the major cause in this whole issue, whether it has been damaged by external factors or internal health issues.

I myself have type 1 diabetes, basically caused by the immune system going haywire and attacking cells in the pancreas that produce insulin. So I often wondered if the immune system was the crux of my ES problem since becoming electrosensitive nearly three years ago. I did ask my doctor, who never heard of ES of course, whether I may have an immune problem. He did a normalblood test, and with the white blood cell count showing up ok, he determined that it wasn't an immune system issue. I have since gone on to learn, ashas been stated by others on this forum, that the immune system is a very complex system,and a simple blood test such as that doesn't give the whole picture. (As a matter of interest, has anyone gone to see an immunologist about the problem ever, or would it be worth the bother?)

Recently, my interest was taken by an article I came across in a science magazine related to the immune system and diabetes. Trials on type 1 diabetics carried out in Brazil, but run in coordination with an American university doctor, saw 15 participants basically having their immune systems shut down, and having new stem cells injected into their bodies to build a new, healthier immune system. For 13 of the 15 people, their "new" immune system stopped attacking their pancreatic cells, and they were able to stop taking insulin injections. see here: http://www.msnbc. msn.com/id/ 18040485/ .htm
The article does mention the danger of the procedure; the patients' old immune systems were shut down using chemotherapy, which is obviously dangerous. Other risks are involved also.
The article does go on to mention that this kind of procedure was also successful with other autoimmune diseases, such as lupus and multiple sclerosis. Obviously this kind of thing is still in the early stages of research anddevelopment, but I was just thinking, that it might offer some potential hope for something like ES if it is indeed an immune system malfunction or whatever. Obviously eradicating all wireless and other ES-causing factors would be preferable in the meantime!

Sean

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Loni <loni326@... > wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]