Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?!

Mainstream medicine seems to have been slow to accept liver function tests.
Not sure why, maybe "not invented here" syndrome. It's not as if they are
particularly costly.
 
The standard liver test should have its uses - like if the liver is severely
damaged e.g. by cirrhosis. But it doesn't seem to tell the whole story.
Again, I think Sue's liver showed up as OK (and indeed it seems to work all
right as well as the necessary metabolic chemicals are there ...)
 
I'd question the specialist's "nothing can be done" attitude, since people
do definitely seem to improve with treatment of the missing liver chemicals
and/or suitable supplementation - though they seem to need constant
topping-up in many cases. Still, better than nothing.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Loni
Sent: 20 September 2009 17:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test


 

Hi Ian & everyone!
 
I don't understand why mainstream medicine just measures enzymes to figure
if your liver is functioning or not. That's absurd. If your liver isn't
functioning it may not make the enzymes which I believe is my case.
 
I asked a specialist that & she didn't have a good answer. She said if there
was a test for the pathways they couldn't do anything about it anyway.
 
My detox profile from 2002 when I was functioning better than I am today,
said Phase I was underfunctioning (P450) & SOD, glutitihione was depressed.
Sulfation, glycination, & glucaronidation were all below reference range.
 
I had liver alert 7 years ago but mainstream medicine just does the simple
blood test & no enzymes: Your liver is fine!  
 
I'm very frustrated with this. Loni

--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
<mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote:

From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net>
ukgateway.net>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 4:18 PM

 

Hi Kooky,

Disappointing that you've not had helpful feedback from Genova.

The "detoxigenomic profile" sounds as if it is completely different from the
"detoxification profile" despite the similarity of names. The former sounds
like a genetic test. These are fairly new and I think in some cases the
doctors are still learning how to interpret them.

The detoxification profile is a much simpler test - it is a "challenge test"
involving drinking 3 different common substances - caffeine, aspirin and
paracetamol - and measuring how the body metabolised them by taking and
analysing a urine sample. Each substance is metabolised by a different
pathway.

Liver metabolism is complex and there's quite a number of different sites
and books which try to describe it with varying success. They don't even
all agree fully on the different pathways. We've found Patrick Holford's
books are quite well explained.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
furstc0404
Sent: 15 September 2009 11:09
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [eSens] Re: magnesium sulphate / cysteine conversion and test

Hi Ian:

Great Smokies Lab is now called Genova Diagnostics:http://www.gdx.
<http://www.gdx. uk.net/index. php?option= com_frontpage& Itemid=1>
uk.net/index. php?option= com_frontpage& Itemid=1

I phoned them just now to ask about a test for measuring sulphate and
cysteine levels. According to the person I spoke to, they don't do this
test.

I also asked if they had a document titled "Detoxification Profile
Application Guide" instead they have a sample report for the Detoxignomic
Profile.

I did the Detoxigenomic Profile test and to date, no one has been able to
explain what some of it means in terms of liver function.

For instance, my severe symptoms and inability to metabolize meds, vits and
supps, most foods, MCS, adverse reactions, allergies etc... appear to show
dysfunction in CYP3A4, yet there was a red asterisk by this. Looking at the
key at the bottom of the page, it was written "Multiple SNP locations were
evaluated for those genes." What does this mean? It does not show it to be
either dysfunctional.

I asked several scientists, doctors, and others who had the test done,
including Genova Diagnostics to no avail.

Polymorphisms were shown in 1B1 and 2C9, others with red asterisks as with
the CYP3A4.

I already posted about the absent GTSM1 glutathione transferese and SOD
etc...

The doctor I was seeing at the time, was convinced according to my severe
symptoms, that CYP3A4 would either be absent or dysfunctional. He contacted
the lab and asked about that, to date, no response.

I am not sure how to proceed from here.

Is there a good site explaining this in simple terms, am also interested in
reading about methylation pathways and sulphur. I already looked at some
sites including Van Konyenburg.

Many thanks

Kooky

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@ ...> wrote:
>
> The test which measures both cysteine and sulphate levels is the "Plasma
> cysteine and sulphate" test. It cost about £100 (so could be $ 100-200 in
> North America). Sue's was sent to the European Laboratory of Nutrients,
> which seems to be linked to Diagnostics Inc in NJ, USA. I think Great
> Smokies Labs do a similar test.
>
> In Sue's case her cysteine levels were normal (or slightly high) whereas
her and
> glutathione, which then undergo "sulphoxidation" to become inorganic
> sulphate which does the actual detoxification reaction. But it has been
> observed medically that some people have high cysteine levels and low
> sulphate levels, which suggests that the enzyme used for sulphoxidation is
> deficient. This has been observed particularly for patients with
> Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and motor neurone disease. These people do not
> benefit from cysteine supplementation (e.g. with MSM) and need inorganic
> sulphate (magnesium sulphate directly). High cysteine or "organic sulphur"
> levels might cause side-effects as you describe John, but I don't know
what
> these might be. Conversely, people where the sulphoxidation pathway and
> enzyme are working normally do fine with cysteine supplements.
>
> Certainly that was what we observed with Sue; MSM did not seem to help her
> at all but magnesium sulphate infusions gave a steady improvement.
>
> This is the snag with prescribing supplements based on general principles
> without doing tests; what benefits 90% of the population may be bad for
the
> person with MCS and ES who, by definition, has something unusual about
their
> metabolism somewhere.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
[mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com] On
Behalf
Of that
> my abillity to convert sulphur to sulphate is very low?
>
> I still don't see how an 'accumulation' of sulphur (cystein etc.) would
> (biochemically) cause the tics though.
> Perhaps anybody has any ideas/explainations ?
>
> Is it the liver which does the sulphur-to-sulphate conversion?
> Is this conversion perhaps a part of the sulphate detox pathway, or is
this
> two seperate processes?
>
> Ian, can you tell me what kind of test one should do to find out how the
> sulphate liver-detox pathway is functioning? (Name and lab.)
> Or perhaps there's another test which just measures sulphate and cysteine
in lead
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For what it's worth,
SNP stands for single nucleotide polymorphism. So they looked at more than
one DNA base for that gene, but they (probably) are only looking for known
common polymorphisms
that have been associated with a disease.


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 4:09 AM, furstc0404 <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>... in order to measure everything don't you have to have all kinds of
>different testing equipement that measures each & every electrical
>frequency? The expense of that seems unrealistic. Loni

In theory yes. In practice, 4 instruments, totaling about $500 would cover a
very wide range and include most of what you are likely to encounter in the
normal home or office:

an electric field / magnetic field combination meter
an RF meter
a Stetzer meter
a Body voltage meter

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that $500 is not a small sum. But for
a disabling problem as big as ES, it doesn't seem like ignoring chronic
exposure to EMF is a reasonable option.

Emil

Hello Emil,

I disagree.

What should laymen do with a body voltage meter?

An RF meter is nice, but for which frequencies?
Normally the simple ones only measure between 800 MHz and 2500 MHz.

But I think it necessary from 380 MHz up to 10 GHz, in order to know what is
going on.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton



----- Original Message -----
From: "lessemf.com" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

We have come to understand that a high body voltage can be very irritating
to the nervous system.
So many eSens participants have described their releif by walking barefoot
in the grass or similar efforts to lower body voltage. Measuring Body
Voltage is the first step in identifying if high body voltage is a
problem... and if so, under what circumstances: in bed, while driving, while
working. etc. Of course, many options exist for reducing body voltage,
depending on the circumstances... we can discuss in detail if interested.

Regarding RF meter:
There is a very low cost unit for $180 which covers 600 MHz to 5.8 GHz.
$255 if you want up to 8 GHz.
see http://www.lessemf.com/rf.html#436

Yes, there are better meters. But if you just need to know if the radiation
is strong or not, this level of meter is adequate.

Emil



----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

Yes I agree with that. Had my body voltage measured & interesting that the electrical wires in your walls are effecting us. Had no idea.

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, lessemf.com <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: lessemf.com <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:46 AM


 



We have come to understand that a high body voltage can be very irritating
to the nervous system.
So many eSens participants have described their releif by walking barefoot
in the grass or similar efforts to lower body voltage. Measuring Body
Voltage is the first step in identifying if high body voltage is a
problem... and if so, under what circumstances: in bed, while driving, while
working. etc. Of course, many options exist for reducing body voltage,
depending on the circumstances. .. we can discuss in detail if interested.

Regarding RF meter:
There is a very low cost unit for $180 which covers 600 MHz to 5.8 GHz.
$255 if you want up to 8 GHz.
see http://www.lessemf. com/rf.html# 436

Yes, there are better meters. But if you just need to know if the radiation
is strong or not, this level of meter is adequate.

Emil

----- Original Message -----
From: <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 21/09/2009 20:56:48 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

>
> An RF meter is nice, but for which frequencies?
> Normally the simple ones only measure between 800 MHz and 2500 MHz.
>
> But I think it necessary from 380 MHz up to 10 GHz, in order to know
what
> is
> going on.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens


Ok - What about my situation with the Plasma TV spewing out RF into the
locality, the AM radio begins to pick this up at 1600khz, what would be the
best way to measure this, for frequency, power levels etc.. ?
When the british Offcom feild test team measured the Plasma they wrote to
me to say it was well within British standards !? So for this TV at the
flick of a switch, it is permissable for a fairly coherant signal to leak out
via the mains cables and telecoms cables and then re-radiate via everything
conductive that it comes accross, with very little loss of signal strength
over at least 100m radius. How can I get this analysed for myself ?

Paul uk


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Ok - What about my situation with the Plasma TV spewing out RF into the
> locality, the AM radio begins to pick this up at 1600khz, what would be
> the
> best way to measure this, for frequency, power levels etc.. ?
... How can I get this analysed for myself ?
>
> Paul uk

Hi Paul,

Take a look at these spectrum analyzers:
Spectran NF-5010 http://www.lessemf.com/combi.html#132
Covering 1Hz to 1MHz

or

Invisible Waves http://www.lessemf.com/rf.html#135
covering 9KHz - 3.5GHz

or

RF Field Strength Analyzer http://www.lessemf.com/rf.html#115
covering 100 kHz to 2060 MHz

Emil

In a message dated 22/09/2009 14:36:22 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

> Ok - What about my situation with the Plasma TV spewing out RF into the
> locality, the AM radio begins to pick this up at 1600khz, what would be
> the
> best way to measure this, for frequency, power levels etc.. ?
... How can I get this analysed for myself ?
>
> Paul uk

Hi Paul,

Take a look at these spectrum analyzers:
Spectran NF-5010 _http://www.lessemf.http://wwwhttp://w_ 
(http://www.lessemf.com/combi.html#132)
Covering 1Hz to 1MHz

or

Invisible Waves _http://www.lessemf.http://www.lhtt_ 
(http://www.lessemf.com/rf.html#135)
covering 9KHz - 3.5GHz

or

RF Field Strength Analyzer _http://www.lessemf.http://www.lhtt_ 
(http://www.lessemf.com/rf.html#115)
covering 100 kHz to 2060 MHz

Emil




Paul uk replies - Thanks Emil, however I find it bizzare that my thread on
this has not generated that many questions and perhaps solutions, if this
type of RF emission is wide spread from Plasma TVs etc then it is a real
hidden threat to Essers !


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

it is my opinion, that not the high frequencies are so dangerous, but much
more the lower ones.

I mean from 0.1 Hz up to 5 MHz.

Especially the frequencies between 5 kHz and 500 kHz do form a real danger.
My recorded modulations of several different elektrosmog sources on my
homepage, which are technically between 20 Hz and 20.000 Hz and no higher
frequencies are possible there, do make electrosensibles react when hearing
them.

I have a special VLF detector with several special antennas for finding
these frequencies.

Last week I was doing a house survey, where the hause was next to a church
tower, on which a number of GSM900 and UMTS transmitters were mounted.
In the whole house as well in the garden, very strong 60 kHz signals were
coming from this churchtower (and it was not the voice of God).

In the past I have found also these VLF signals from a UMTS transmitter, and
with an airport radar signal.

Many computer monitors as well as LCD TV's do emit these VLF signals into
space, which is different from the *dirty power* we find in the mains
electricity net.

I have also found that some stereo sets, like Harman Kardon and JVC do
generate a lot of *dirty power* into the mains net.

The VLF in the mains electricity net can be handled with f.i. the Stezter
filters, but the VLF frequencies in the air cannot.
There, the source must be eleiminated, or shut off.

Many people blame the mobile phone masts, but do not realize that they do
have far worse elektrosmog sources inside their house
as well.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton





----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector

In a message dated 23/09/2009 10:28:17 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

generate a lot of *dirty power* into the mains net.

The VLF in the mains electricity net can be handled with f.i. the Stezter
filters, but the VLF frequencies in the air cannot.
There, the source must be eleiminated, or shut off.

Many people blame the mobile phone masts, but do not realize that they do
have far worse elektrosmog sources inside their house
as well.


Paul uk replies - I wholeheartedly aggree, the situation in my home and
very local vicinity due to the Pioneer Plasma leaves the place completely
distructive to me, it is conducted and airborne and litterally swamps
everything in these VLF signals, and I cant tolerate it for long and so my life is a
mess due to this lovely shiny sleek peace of technology. From what you
say the VLF is riding off some of the other higher frequencies and many
essers will be affected by these low frequency windows. Of course we are all
different and waht would be ideal would be a dosimeter with your own bad
frequencies set into it and so the alarm is raised when these are present,
perhaps time and money will bring this to us.

On another note - I nearly fainted the other day when a recruitment company
advertised on TotalJobs for a Health Care Salesman to sell health
solutions for Electrosensitives to Doctors etc, paying upto 40k a yaer !
This was a first for me, so the market is begining to rise here in UK.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What are the worse sources of electrosmog other than the cell masts inside the home?
My gut feeling is that if I didn't have around 8 antennas that I can see out my back window that I'd be doing a lot better here. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/23/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] new electrosmog detector
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 2:56 AM


 




In a message dated 23/09/2009 10:28:17 GMT Daylight Time,
charles@milieuziekt es.be writes:

generate a lot of *dirty power* into the mains net.

The VLF in the mains electricity net can be handled with f.i. the Stezter
filters, but the VLF frequencies in the air cannot.
There, the source must be eleiminated, or shut off.

Many people blame the mobile phone masts, but do not realize that they do
have far worse elektrosmog sources inside their house
as well.

Paul uk replies - I wholeheartedly aggree, the situation in my home and
very local vicinity due to the Pioneer Plasma leaves the place completely
distructive to me, it is conducted and airborne and litterally swamps
everything in these VLF signals, and I cant tolerate it for long and so my life is a
mess due to this lovely shiny sleek peace of technology. From what you
say the VLF is riding off some of the other higher frequencies and many
essers will be affected by these low frequency windows. Of course we are all
different and waht would be ideal would be a dosimeter with your own bad
frequencies set into it and so the alarm is raised when these are present,
perhaps time and money will bring this to us.

On another note - I nearly fainted the other day when a recruitment company
advertised on TotalJobs for a Health Care Salesman to sell health
solutions for Electrosensitives to Doctors etc, paying upto 40k a yaer !
This was a first for me, so the market is begining to rise here in UK.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 23/09/2009 18:26:36 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

What are the worse sources of electrosmog other than the cell masts inside
the home?
My gut feeling is that if I didn't have around 8 antennas that I can see
out my back window that I'd be doing a lot better here. Loni




Paul Uk replies - Certainly removing as many layers of esmog as possible
makes sense, I can share another example of a consumer product that spews out
RF - I borrowed my dads Toshiba Dvd player last night, within 15 minutes
of use I got a tingling rash like burn on my face and head/scalp so I began
to suspect the DVD player, my one gives me no problems, so I checked it out
with my trusty AM radio tuned to 1600khz and low and behold the DVD player
made the radio growl loudly all over the property and outside in the
garden ! upon switching it off all went silent with the radio ! So you can see
that not all consumer devices are equal, in fact the DVD player that I have
is considerably cheaper than the Toshiba.

P


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Marc, Bill Bruno, and All,
 
Marc, some time back you told how you remediated some ES issues in your home by buying upgraded outlets.  We are beginning our rewiring in ernest now (as opposed to just making vague plans for it  ;)  ), and we are debating outlet options.  My electrician says we have these choices, if Iunderstood correctly.....  residential grade, commercial grade, and hospital grade.  Sooooo, I ran this past Spark Burmaster of ES rewiring fame (not joking here; he has been of great help) and he says regular residential outlets should be ok in our case.  But when I told him about your experience, he said there are also "isolated ground" outlets and perhaps you were talking about using these to help?   He says we won't need to remediate with outlets if we do the rewiring right to begin with.  (He thinks you may have been remediating ground loops, if I understood correctly.)  So, my question is, do you think these were the outlets you used (the
isolated ground version) and that they were remediating a wiring issue? Thanks.  My question to All--do you think regular residential outlets are all that is needed?  Getting all the ducks in a row, here.  lol
 
Also, Bill, (and All).....  Bill, you mentioned awhile back that you werelooking for exhaust fans or hoods and I think you mentioned a model, but Ican't find that info.  Would you be able to tell me which model worked for you (and also anyone else out there who has a favorite model, I'd appreciate that too!)  Spark B. says to make sure they have just a straightforward basic motor and a mechanical timer.  Is there anything else I need to look out for?  I am looking for an exhaust fan w/wo a light for the bathroom and a range hood w/wo a light for the gas range.  Thanks so much for your help.  I appreciate it so much.  So much to consider here that my mind is swimming.
 
On an encouraging note, I was so surprised recently that I was pinching myself for days to make sure I wasn't dreaming it....  I had met with my electrician and he is so gung ho about learning how to do EMS wiring.  He says he was the first in the area to do "green wiring installations" and he is excited to learn now how to do EMS installations.  He also has asked meindepth questions about our (EMS) symptoms, what we react to, how we know....  Very interested!  I was amazed.  But like that was not enough, the icing on the cake came when we had to contact the local electric company to send a rep out to tell us if we could move the power line and erect anew pole....  My electrician talked to him ahead of time and told him I was EMS.  He came out and he was sooooo nice I couldn't believe it!  I expected he would act as tho I had grown two heads, but instead he gave us carte blanche to do what we wanted--the meter by the street instead of on the
house, a new pole on the opposite side of our house (further away from bedrooms), and the electric line coming across from the far side of the street instead of across from our former pole!  He was completely sincere when he left, saying, he wished me "the very best possible outcome" and hoped "it works out" for me.  And if that were not enough, the next time I went back to the house we are rewiring, I noticed the TRANSFORMER was moved!  I didn't even ask for that; he did it on his own!  It is now down thestreet again!  The transformer had been moved last fall to across the street in front of our house.  Can it be true that people are beginning to take us seriously???? 
 
My best to All of you; thanks again for your help,
Diane



     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> But when I told him about
> your experience, he said there are also "isolated ground" outlets and
> perhaps you were talking about using these to help?

I think the new outlets I used were residential grade. You have to
understand, there is a variance in residental grade outlets -- some
cost about 25 cents, while other cost $2. I think all I did was
replace a 25 cent outlet with a $2 outlet!

I've seen outlets that sell for $50 a piece, but I've never tried
those, understandably enough... :-)

Marc

Hi, Marc,
 
Interesting!  Apparently here (Pa) it is different because the electrician knows of only one grade of residential outlet.  (I am not doubting your word, just trying to understand the discrepancy.)  I asked him about this and the grade of wiring in light fixtures.  Both he and Spark B. gaveme the same answers:  the same grade of wire is in the cheapest to the most expensive fixtures and residential outlets now, because they all must meet the code.  Maybe that is it--codes are higher now for these products than when you rewired your outlets?  Back in the day, we used to buy lamps, etc, with a UL label or seal attrached to know we were getting a safe and quality electrical product.  Maybe today they all have a UL seal attached (meet the code)???  Anyway, apparently now all residential outlets are the same here and all cost about $1.  Thanks for helping me understandthis, Marc. 
 
I was told by Spark and my electrician when I asked, that all lighting fixtures meet code now.  So I asked my electrician why you can go to Lowe'sand see virtually the same light for $20 and $200.  He told me the difference is the materials used--plastics instead of glass; resin instead of brass....  Do all of you agree with this statement?  So any fixture would be as good ES wise?  Or are there other considerations I am missing?  Should I stay away from metals?
 
On a different note...  are electronic doorbells ok?  The house came with one which is broken at the button on the door.  I would ordinarily notadd one, but all my neighbors who stop by keep asking when I am going to get it fixed!  lol  (I don't expect them to understand this is a very low priority on my radar.) 
 
Thanks for all the help. 
Diane

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] electrical outlets and exhaust fans and more
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 9:32 AM


 



> But when I told him about
> your experience, he said there are also "isolated ground" outlets and
> perhaps you were talking about using these to help?

I think the new outlets I used were residential grade. You have to
understand, there is a variance in residental grade outlets -- some
cost about 25 cents, while other cost $2. I think all I did was
replace a 25 cent outlet with a $2 outlet!

I've seen outlets that sell for $50 a piece, but I've never tried
those, understandably enough... :-)

Marc
















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, All,
 
Spark B also recommends I get direct wired DSL to avoid the converter boxesthat come with subscribing to DSL and using the existing phone line jack.  Are any of you familiar with this and what the cons are?  Is it more expensive monthly?  (I am guessing it is alot more up front but we haven't gotten far enough on that to ask.) 
 
Thanks; I appreciate your help,
Diane
 


--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] electrical outlets, lighting fixtures, electronic doorbells
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 11:22 AM


 



Hi, Marc,
 
Interesting!  Apparently here (Pa) it is different because the electrician knows of only one grade of residential outlet.  (I am not doubting your word, just trying to understand the discrepancy. )  I asked him about this and the grade of wiring in light fixtures.  Both he and Spark B. gave me the same answers:  the same grade of wire is in the cheapest to the most expensive fixtures and residential outlets now, because they all must meet the code.  Maybe that is it--codes are higher now for these products than when you rewired your outlets?  Back in the day, we used to buy lamps, etc, with a UL label or seal attrached to know we were getting a safeand quality electrical product.  Maybe today they all have a UL seal attached (meet the code)???  Anyway, apparently now all residential outlets are the same here and all cost about $1.  Thanks for helping me understand this, Marc. 
 
I was told by Spark and my electrician when I asked, that all lighting fixtures meet code now.  So I asked my electrician why you can go to Lowe'sand see virtually the same light for $20 and $200.  He told me the difference is the materials used--plastics instead of glass; resin instead of brass....  Do all of you agree with this statement?  So any fixture would be as good ES wise?  Or are there other considerations I am missing?  Should I stay away from metals?
 
On a different note...  are electronic doorbells ok?  The house came with one which is broken at the button on the door.  I would ordinarily notadd one, but all my neighbors who stop by keep asking when I am going to get it fixed!  lol  (I don't expect them to understand this is a very low priority on my radar.) 
 
Thanks for all the help. 
Diane

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. com> wrote:

From: Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] electrical outlets and exhaust fans and more
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 9:32 AM

 

> But when I told him about
> your experience, he said there are also "isolated ground" outlets and
> perhaps you were talking about using these to help?

I think the new outlets I used were residential grade. You have to
understand, there is a variance in residental grade outlets -- some
cost about 25 cents, while other cost $2. I think all I did was
replace a 25 cent outlet with a $2 outlet!

I've seen outlets that sell for $50 a piece, but I've never tried
those, understandably enough... :-)

Marc

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane, That is very encouraging news about a kinder, gentler electric co. I have tried twice to get the meter on the street and underground wiring to the house. Either the electricians are flakes or the electric co. says the city fire dept. wont allow it. I guess it is time to call them directly. On another note, I did confront the electric co. about radio transmitting meters and they admitted that fact. They would not replace my meter witha regular one to be read by a human, but they did allow me to replace the meter with a prepaid kind, in which i have a debit card and go buy credits, then swipe the card on a m power credit reading box in the home. I learned to swipe the credits and then disconnect this credit reader, because it in itself emits radio waves. We think this meter is better, but it is too early. The electric co. is SRP in Phoenix metro area, if this helps any. Mike

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


     

> Anyway, apparently now
> all residential outlets are the same here and all cost about $1.

Maybe that is true at your electrician's supply store, but when
I went to the local hardware mega-store (Home Depot, Lowes), there
were different outlets at different prices, with the more expensive
outlets supposedly better built.

Marc

> So any
> fixture would be as good ES wise?  Or are there other considerations I am
> missing? 

As long as the fixture isn't too cheaply made (so that the electrical contacts
are all secure), and as long as it doesn't have any dimming features, and
as long as it uses a regular incandescent bulb, it should be okay...

> On a different note...  are electronic doorbells ok?

Seems like a wired doorbell should be okay... maybe not for the ultra-sensitive...

Marc