This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer:
-homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could notalmost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks orso -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And thenit takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni |
In a message dated 21/08/2009 06:38:00 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes: Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and One theory of mine is that when you are undrgoing treatments your expectations are high your mind and body will be in a state of high arousal and focusing on the all aspects the illness, you may litterally turn up your sensitivity, fuelled by arousal chemicals in the body litterally adding feul to the fire. Has anyone tried hypnotherapy to try and dampen this effect while undergoing other treatment regimes. I wonder to myself that we do have the ability to tune up our response ie to increase sensitivity by working on it, litterally practicing to discern the differing EMFs, now that would be a skill ! Of course I know from personal experience that efeilds feel different to emf and so on, but I guess if you got really good at it you would also be very sick or have to live on the moon. p [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Hi Joni,
I sure can relate to you with the burning skin. I don't know but think it could be due to stirring up the toxins & the body is over burdened at the time therefore you will not be able to tolerate the EMF. I will try the footbath myself because I have been wanting to do it & let you know what happens to me since we have same symptoms of EMF exposure. Loni --- On Thu, 8/20/09, napanft <[hidden email]> wrote: From: napanft <[hidden email]> Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:36 PM This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could notalmost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks orso -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And thenit takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Administrator
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In reply to this post by Wolf Man
> This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt
> nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally > messed up. In my opinion, what you are experiencing is toxins that had previously been stored somewhere are being mobilized into your bloodstream, and then not properly neutralized by your liver/kidneys and eliminated from your body via urine/stool. Instead, the toxins recirculate and cause damage elsewhere, making you worse. The solution to this is to provide assistance to your various "detox pathways". Antioxidants and toxin binders should take off some of the load for quick relief. Specific vitamins, herbs, and foods can be used to provide support / repair your liver, kidneys, etc. Marc |
I use charcoal & bentonite clay for binders & use them every am to assist detox. Loni
--- On Fri, 8/21/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 2:00 PM > This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt > nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally > messed up. In my opinion, what you are experiencing is toxins that had previously been stored somewhere are being mobilized into your bloodstream, and then not properly neutralized by your liver/kidneys and eliminated from your body via urine/stool. Instead, the toxins recirculate and cause damage elsewhere, making you worse. The solution to this is to provide assistance to your various "detox pathways". Antioxidants and toxin binders should take off some of the load for quick relief. Specific vitamins, herbs, and foods can be used to provide support / repair your liver, kidneys, etc. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they
get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
The other thing to mention is that when you get a bit better, you often find
you can tolerate treatments which gave nasty side-effects when your system was at rock bottom. My wife had this for foot baths and alpha lipoic acid, both of which she can now tolerate; but she's just had an adverse reaction to a homeopathic treatment although she'd had good results from homeopathy in the past. All very tricky ... Ian _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: 22 August 2009 01:00 To: '[hidden email]' Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Yes, very tricky..
You mentioned your wife had bad effects from foot baths, do you remember how long they lasted? Did she ever have bad reaction to gluthione iv's? (sorry if i asked this before, cant remember for sure) thx Joni --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email], [hidden email] Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:05 PM The other thing to mention is that when you get a bit better, you often find you can tolerate treatments which gave nasty side-effects when your system was at rock bottom. My wife had this for foot baths and alpha lipoic acid, both of which she can now tolerate; but she's just had an adverse reaction to a homeopathic treatment although she'd had good results from homeopathy in the past. All very tricky ... Ian _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net] Sent: 22 August 2009 01:00 To: 'eSens@yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Yes I agree.. its just hard to find these answers (though this site is good) because I cant be here more than 5 mins.. :/
--- On Fri, 8/21/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:00 PM A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Yes this makes sense to me too
I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and binders you refer to the ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have in mind?Sorry, I would search for myself on the forum but.. my 5 minutes are now used. :I --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 2:00 PM > This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe thatthere really isnt > nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally > messed up. In my opinion, what you are experiencing is toxins that had previously been stored somewhere are being mobilized into your bloodstream, and then not properly neutralized by your liver/kidneys and eliminated from your body via urine/stool. Instead, the toxins recirculate and cause damage elsewhere, making you worse. The solution to this is to provide assistance to your various "detox pathways". Antioxidants and toxin binders should take off some of the load for quick relief. Specific vitamins, herbs, and foods can be used to provide support / repair your liver, kidneys, etc. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Administrator
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> I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and binders you refer to the
> ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > in mind? There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, and they have several different liver support supplements (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new things! Marc |
have you taken that bentonite by mouth? which brand?
thx --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:08 AM > I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and binders yourefer to the > ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > in mind? There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, and they have several different liver support supplements (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new things! Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
I agree with Loni, Bentonite Clay and charcoal can be very helpful over a period of time, gradually increasing the clay dosage. Care needs to be taken to its purity. Less aggressive than other products. Interesting discussion and worth brainstorming here. A fresh perspective and approach needs to be considered. 1. Regardlessful of toxic load, Electropollution is toxic in itself. 2. If we included toxic load as factor, this means, there is methylation block, which needs to be addressed. If this is not addressed, detoxing willonly worsen toxicity. 3. Animals, babies and kids, with lowish toxic loads also suffer from EMS/ES. 4. Some I personally know, with very high heavy metals load, including mercury (NB. no mercury fillings) do not suffer EMS/ES 5. EMS/ES affects us all differently, but there is no getting away that even for those who do not "burn", we suffer from other symptoms, or little skin reaction. It still alters DNA, is carcinogenic, and affects organs. 6. I agree with Loni, Bentonite Clay and charcoal can be very helpful over a period of time, gradually increasing the clay dosage. Care needs to be taken to its purity. Less aggressive than other products. Interesting discussion and worth brainstorming here. A fresh perspective and approach needs to be considered. 1. Regardlessful of toxic load, Electropollution is toxic in itself. 2. If we included toxic load as factor, this means, there is methylation block, which needs to be addressed. If this is not addressed, detoxing willonly worsen toxic load. 3. Animals, babies and kids, with lowish toxic loads also suffer from EMS/ES. 4. Some I personally know, with very high heavy metals load, including mercury (NB. no mercury fillings) do not suffer EMS/ES 5. EMS/ES affects us all differently, but there is no getting away that even for those who do not "burn", we suffer from other symptoms, or little skin reaction. It still alters DNA, is carcinogenic, and affects organs. 6. If toxic load is very high, and under phsyiological stress, it is knownthat taking antioxidants will turn into a free radicals, which makes it even worse. Lots of reseach shows this. This is why so many are worse when taking antioxidants. 7. There is disturbance in calcium ion channels and other ion channels, and care needs to be taken not to exacerbate this. Input appreciated... K If toxic load is very high, and under phsyiological stress, it is known that taking antioxidants will turn into a free radicals, which makes it evenworse. Lots of research shows this. This is why so many are worse when taking antioxidants. 7. There is disturbance in calcium ion channels and other ion channels, and care needs to be taken not to exacerbate this. 8. Bioweather also plays a role, humidity, atmospheric pressures, heat and cold and variablitlity of climate and weather affects us too, in regards to EMS/ES. Input appreciated... K --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@...> wrote: > > have you taken that bentonite by mouth? which brand? > > thx > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote: > > From: Marc Martin <marc@...> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > To: [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:08 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and binders you refer to the > > > ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > > > in mind? > > > > There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse > > side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants > > do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also > > just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have > > luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with > > this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there > > are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and > > kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract > > for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and > > some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). > > I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, > > and they have several different liver support supplements > > (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, > > Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney > > support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for > > foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including > > broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. > > > > Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be > > in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new > > things! > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@...> wrote: > > have you taken that bentonite by mouth? which brand? > > thx > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote: > > From: Marc Martin <marc@...> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > To: [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:08 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and binders you refer to the > > > ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > > > in mind? > > > > There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse > > side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants > > do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also > > just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have > > luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with > > this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there > > are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and > > kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract > > for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and > > some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). > > I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, > > and they have several different liver support supplements > > (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, > > Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney > > support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for > > foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including > > broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. > > > > Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be > > in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new > > things! > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
Oooops, either mac or Mozilla going nuts here: <smile> A tidy version: I agree with Loni, Bentonite clay is safer and helpful, effective, and lessaggressive than other detox products. Be careful for purity grade. I have a couple of reliable suppliers if anyone is interested, I am not affiliated in anyway with those companies. Interesting discussion and worth brainstorming here. A fresh perspective and approach needs to be considered. 1. Regardless of toxic load, Electropollution is toxic in itself. 2. If we included toxic load as factor, this means, there is methylation block, which needs to be addressed. If this is not addressed, detoxing willonly worsen toxic load. 3. Animals, babies and kids, with lowish toxic loads also suffer from EMS/ES. 4. Some I personally know, with very high heavy metals load, including mercury (NB. no mercury fillings) do not suffer EMS/ES 5. EMS/ES affects us all differently, but there is no getting away that even for those who do not "burn", we suffer from other symptoms, or little skin reaction. It still alters DNA, is carcinogenic, and affects organs. 6. If toxic load is very high, and under phsyiological stress, it is knownthat taking antioxidants will turn into a free radicals, which makes it even worse. Lots of reseach shows this. This is why so many are worse when taking antioxidants. 7. There is disturbance in calcium ion channels and other ion channels, and care needs to be taken not to exacerbate this. 8. Bioweather is to be taken in consideration. Humidity, dry, cold, heat,atmospheric pressures, all types of weather and climate as well as the earth's magnetism. Negative ions in your home, living near mountains and rivers and the sea, or in the desert, all this makes a difference. Input appreciated... --- In [hidden email], "furstc0404" <furstc@...> wrote: > > > > I agree with Loni, Bentonite Clay and charcoal can be very helpful over aperiod of time, gradually increasing the clay dosage. Care needs to be taken to its purity. Less aggressive than other products. > > Interesting discussion and worth brainstorming here. A fresh perspectiveand approach needs to be considered. > > 1. Regardlessful of toxic load, Electropollution is toxic in itself. > > 2. If we included toxic load as factor, this means, there is methylationblock, which needs to be addressed. If this is not addressed, detoxing will only worsen toxicity. > > 3. Animals, babies and kids, with lowish toxic loads also suffer from EMS/ES. > > 4. Some I personally know, with very high heavy metals load, including mercury (NB. no mercury fillings) do not suffer EMS/ES > > 5. EMS/ES affects us all differently, but there is no getting away that even for those who do not "burn", we suffer from other symptoms, or little skin reaction. It still alters DNA, is carcinogenic, and affects organs. > > 6. > I agree with Loni, Bentonite Clay and charcoal can be very helpful over aperiod of time, gradually increasing the clay dosage. Care needs to be taken to its purity. Less aggressive than other products. > > Interesting discussion and worth brainstorming here. A fresh perspectiveand approach needs to be considered. > > 1. Regardlessful of toxic load, Electropollution is toxic in itself. > > 2. If we included toxic load as factor, this means, there is methylationblock, which needs to be addressed. If this is not addressed, detoxing will only worsen toxic load. > > 3. Animals, babies and kids, with lowish toxic loads also suffer from EMS/ES. > > 4. Some I personally know, with very high heavy metals load, including mercury (NB. no mercury fillings) do not suffer EMS/ES > > 5. EMS/ES affects us all differently, but there is no getting away that even for those who do not "burn", we suffer from other symptoms, or little skin reaction. It still alters DNA, is carcinogenic, and affects organs. > > 6. If toxic load is very high, and under phsyiological stress, it is known that taking antioxidants will turn into a free radicals, which makes it even worse. Lots of reseach shows this. This is why so many are worse when taking antioxidants. > > 7. There is disturbance in calcium ion channels and other ion channels,and care needs to be taken not to exacerbate this. > > Input appreciated... > > K If toxic load is very high, and under phsyiological stress, it is knownthat taking antioxidants will turn into a free radicals, which makes it even worse. Lots of research shows this. This is why so many are worse whentaking antioxidants. > > 7. There is disturbance in calcium ion channels and other ion channels,and care needs to be taken not to exacerbate this. > > 8. Bioweather also plays a role, humidity, atmospheric pressures, heat and cold and variablitlity of climate and weather affects us too, in regards to EMS/ES. > > Input appreciated... > > K > > > > --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@> wrote: > > > > have you taken that bentonite by mouth? which brand? > > > > thx > > > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Marc Martin <marc@> wrote: > > > > From: Marc Martin <marc@> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > > To: [hidden email] > > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:08 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and bindersyou refer to the > > > > > ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > > > > > in mind? > > > > > > > > There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse > > > > side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants > > > > do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also > > > > just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have > > > > luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with > > > > this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there > > > > are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and > > > > kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract > > > > for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and > > > > some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). > > > > I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, > > > > and they have several different liver support supplements > > > > (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, > > > > Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney > > > > support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for > > > > foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including > > > > broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. > > > > > > > > Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be > > > > in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new > > > > things! > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Wolf Man <napanft@> wrote: > > > > have you taken that bentonite by mouth? which brand? > > > > thx > > > > --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Marc Martin <marc@> wrote: > > > > From: Marc Martin <marc@> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! > > To: [hidden email] > > Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 12:08 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess when you mentioned antioxidants and bindersyou refer to the > > > > > ambrosia, megahydrin and ndf right? What vitamins and herbs did you have > > > > > in mind? > > > > > > > > There are lots of things to choose from, but some may cause adverse > > > > side effects for you, so you'll need to test them out. Antioxidants > > > > do include Megahydrin/Hydrogen Boost/H-Minus and also Amrit, but also > > > > just plain old Vitamin A/E/C are worth a try, and some people have > > > > luck with things like Pycnogenol (although I get oxygen starved with > > > > this). Binders include bentonite, activated charcoal, psyllium. And there > > > > are various foods, vitamins, and herbs which support liver and > > > > kidney functions. I've had good luck with grapefruit seed extract > > > > for slowing down Liver phase I (which makes me feel better), and > > > > some people like to use Milk Thistle for the liver (not me, though). > > > > I have a tendency to like to use "Standard Process" brand supplements, > > > > and they have several different liver support supplements > > > > (Hepatrophin PMG, Livaplex, Betacol, Spanish Black Radish, > > > > Cruciferous Complete, AF Betafood), and the same for kidney > > > > support (Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Arginex, Albaplex). As for > > > > foods, various foods support liver detoxification, including > > > > broccoli, asparagus, kale, brussel spouts, egg yolks, garlic. > > > > > > > > Although if you tried all of the above all at once, you'll be > > > > in for one nasty detox, so be careful when trying out new > > > > things! > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it.
blessings, Paresh http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths whodo not believe in detoxing either. K --- In [hidden email], "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@...> wrote: > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > blessings, > Paresh > > http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Hi Joni,
Not sure how long the reactions to foot baths lasted - a few days I think - but they were strong enough to put Sue off doing it again. This was when she was very ill and her MCS and ES were at their peak, so she reacted to almost everything. She has never had a negative reaction to IV glutathione - that and IV magnesium sulphate were the two things which seemed to most help reduce her "black fogs", brain fog, MCS and ES. We had tests which showed her gluthathione and sulphate levels were particularly low, both are now much better, especially the sulphate. We think now that when she did magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) in a footbath early on and got a major reaction, it detoxed too effectively and release lots of toxins that the body couldn't handle - at the time we didn't know how low her sulphate levels were. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wolf Man Sent: 22 August 2009 07:43 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Yes, very tricky.. You mentioned your wife had bad effects from foot baths, do you remember how long they lasted? Did she ever have bad reaction to gluthione iv's? (sorry if i asked this before, cant remember for sure) thx Joni --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net, eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:05 PM The other thing to mention is that when you get a bit better, you often find you can tolerate treatments which gave nasty side-effects when your system was at rock bottom. My wife had this for foot baths and alpha lipoic acid, both of which she can now tolerate; but she's just had an adverse reaction to a homeopathic treatment although she'd had good results from homeopathy in the past. All very tricky ... Ian _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net] Sent: 22 August 2009 01:00 To: 'eSens@yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by furstc0404-2
K/Paresh,
A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by specific lifestyle changes. However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been major underlying problems over a long period. In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had 2 of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of furstc0404 Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do not believe in detoxing either. K --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@...> wrote: > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > blessings, > Paresh > > http://home. <http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/> earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
"In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had 2 > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and normal for nearly 40 years." Hi Ian, just wondering, did Sue at any time take any fluoroquinolones antibiotics, or any other meds/vaccines prior to her health deteriorating? Your mention of two of her liver pathways, was there a test performed priorto her illness? I also had a test done post illness, which showed two CYPs of the liver either missing or malfunctioning and more. The Glutathione Transferase Gene is Absent, etc.. According to MDs, a large percentage of the population have those polymorphisms and genetic variations. This is why, only 10% of the population do not suffer adverse reactions and side effects from meds/vaccines/environmental toxins. Scientists say it is possible with epigenetics to switch on/off certain genes. For instance, Reseveratrol activates one of the SIR gene. In addition, it is said by scientists, notably from MITT, that, DNA alters constantly, from what we eat, drink, inhale, pollution etc.. With phytochemistry (similar to herbalism and Ayurvedic medicine),and epigenetics/orthomolecular medicine, it is possible to switch on and off certaingenes, by using certain compounds from spices, such as curcumin, plants, fruits, vegetable etc. It would be interesting to hear some response, in particular, from those who have successfully dealt or reversed the dysfunction in the liver pathway.Having said that, CYPs are everywhere including the brain. Amy Yasko for instance, and other doctors have had great success with genetic testing and reversing Autism, and helping those with CFS. Have you any opinion about this? Has Sue received any help for malfunctioning liver detox pathways? I have been researching a lot but still have not found a solution to this problem. I also suffer from severe MCS, allergies, (very limited diet) and other health issues. Kooky --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > K/Paresh, > A fair point. A lot of the detoxing industry looks as if it is selling to > fairly healthy people who could improve their health just as much by > specific lifestyle changes. > > However, for people with hypersensitivity, the question is why it happens, > when 99%++ of people don't experience this? And why do some people (like > Sue) develop hypersensitivity (to all sorts of things, chemicals and foods > as well as EMF) after being apparently perfectly healthy for 40 years? From > the feedback from people on this site and that we've met, the two most > common root causes seem to be (a) immune system failure for various reasons > (b) prolonged high exposure to high EM radiation levels - and, in a fair > number of cases, both. For people with (a), things generally seem to get > better with detoxing to try to fix the liver and remove the load on the > immune system - but this is real heavy-duty detox, not the "lifestyle detox" > that celebrities get at clinics after too much overeating or booze. Our > bodies are incredibly well supplied with backup systems in case one > metabolic pathway isn't working or overloaded - so, to get a major immune > system breakdown leading to MCS/ES, it seems as if there must have been > major underlying problems over a long period. > > In Sue's case we now know (long after the problem began) that she has had2 > of her 4 liver detox pathways missing from birth for genetic reasons. The > faint early warning sign of this was that she reacted badly to traffic fumes > at times in her 30's. Otherwise her body appeared perfectly healthy and > normal for nearly 40 years. Another straw in the wind was that two > grandparents (on different sides of the family) had very low tolerance of > alcohol - which again in hindight is probaly a liver metabolism effect. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > furstc0404 > Sent: 22 August 2009 17:22 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [eSens] Re: Why do so many treatments just make this illness > worse?! > > > > > > Paresh, at times, when discouraged, I think like you too, detoxing industry, > worth millions of dollars. There are some doctors and naturoppaths who do > not believe in detoxing either. > > K > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Paresh" > <sunmoonyoga@> wrote: > > > > I think of it as hypersensitivity more than toxins. There is a whole > industry telling us that we are toxic & selling various remedies to fix it. > > blessings, > > Paresh > > > > http://home. <http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/> > earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
In reply to this post by Wolf Man
Hello and thanks for the info,
one question: exactly how was her glutathione level tested? Can it be tested by a blood test or are you referring here to a genetic test called detoxigenomic profile? And how about the sulphate level, how was that tested? Thanks Joni --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 4:59 PM Hi Joni, Not sure how long the reactions to foot baths lasted - a few days I think - but they were strong enough to put Sue off doing it again. This was when she was very ill and her MCS and ES were at their peak, so she reacted to almost everything. She has never had a negative reaction to IV glutathione - that and IV magnesium sulphate were the two things which seemed to most help reduce her "black fogs", brain fog, MCS and ES. We had tests which showed her gluthathione and sulphate levels were particularly low, both are now much better, especially the sulphate. We think now that when she did magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) in a footbath early on and got a major reaction, it detoxed too effectively and release lots of toxins that the body couldn't handle - at the time we didn't know how low her sulphate levels were. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Wolf Man Sent: 22 August 2009 07:43 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! Yes, very tricky.. You mentioned your wife had bad effects from foot baths, do you remember how long they lasted? Did she ever have bad reaction to gluthione iv's? (sorry if i asked this before, cant remember for sure) thx Joni --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! To: ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net, eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 5:05 PM The other thing to mention is that when you get a bit better, you often find you can tolerate treatments which gave nasty side-effects when your system was at rock bottom. My wife had this for foot baths and alpha lipoic acid, both of which she can now tolerate; but she's just had an adverse reaction to a homeopathic treatment although she'd had good results from homeopathy in the past. All very tricky ... Ian _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:ianandsue. kemp@ ukgateway. net] Sent: 22 August 2009 01:00 To: 'eSens@yahoogroups. com' Subject: RE: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! A good question Joni - and for many people, the answer seems to be that they get ES because the body is already pretty messed up (especially the immune system). So your idea about toxins sounds right - they get mobilised but the body struggles to eliminate them, so the symptoms get worse. Quite a lot of this in messages in the archives, if you can find them. The good news is that if people can get "over the hump" and get some successful detoxing done, the ES symptoms tend to drop off in line with all the other nasty effects. But different methods work for different people - probably because of different root causes in the body originally. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of napanft Sent: 21 August 2009 06:36 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: [eSens] Why do so many treatments just make this illness worse?! This illness is so weird, I am starting to believe that there really isnt nothing quite like this. Just a tiny little mistake and you are totally messed up. My experiences during this summer: -homeopathy treatment: got so much worse for 6 or so weeks that i could not almost even touch this computer (could check the emails quickly and the i was already burning all over), then it got slightly better for 1-2 weeks or so -then i made another mistake and tried sea salt foot bath > same thing happened, burning all over, cant tolerate this pc (and other computers) at all without getting the all over burning skin - which then lasts for hours. This bath experiment was 2 weeks ago and still no better Has anybody any theories what on earth is going on in the body? Why this does happen? Is it that toxins in the body are just mobilized and they are then reacting with the EMFs all over causing the symptoms and pains? And then it takes time them to settle down again - until some treatment experiment stirs them up again and the same thing starts? Could this be what is happening here? I am so clueless and totally fed up with this. Oh and gotta get away from this pc (personal chernobyl) now. Thanks for your thougts. Joni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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