SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction?

>
> LOL  Stephen,
>  
> NOOOO!  I had access to Dell techs who worked on emf remediation by phone for an entire month!  lol  I had 7different techies, if memory serves.  (They each had this as a designation of expertise and when I called in to request help, I was asked what I needed help on--I said I reacted to emfs from the computer.  I was then transferred to one of these emf remediation techs.  Their expertise was self-conferred. These techies studied emf remediation on their own because they wanted to work in this area (the more areas they could use as fields of expertise, the higher their pay/perks), and so they basically were considered "experts" in this area, as well as regular fields of expertise which they had studied and had certifications for.)  I had 2 hardware techs (only 1 of those was an emf expert)--they talked me thru removing cards and changing settings--some changes were in the bios, others in control panel.  Then the rest of the techs were
> software techs; they often helped me remotely by taking control of my computer themselves (using "remote assistant").  There were 5 of them--it depended on the time of day I called, as to who I got.  Also, they sometimes transferred me between themselves, as some had different areas of training.
>  
> This was all free, as part of the warranty package at the time:  30 days free software support; 1 year free hardware support.  But none ofit was in-home;  all was by phone.
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction?)
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 4:31 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Diane, this is all very interesting!
>
> Not completely clear for me though, are you saying that Dell sent 2 of their ICT-guys to help you for ONE ENTIRE MONTH in your own house on your Dell-pc?! And who paid for that? Dell or you?
>
> Stephen.
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Evie <evie15422@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Stephen, Svetaswan, and All,
> >  
> > When I mentioned the necessity of removing the wifi (and Broadband!) cards from my computer, I was quoting Dell technicians,who I assume are more educated in such matters than most of us.  I was told specifically, that these cards are like "antennae".  And such, turning them on merely makes them "connect" to a "receiver" in your hardware portion of your computer.  Infact, tho, the connection when broken is only a wire's width apart, and, besides that, the emfs are still attracted to the "antenna" itself--the actual card.  The cards are just not hooked up to the "receiver"when you have the hardware switched off, or, in some cases, the card is laying flat instead of in an upright position and it is only the direction ofthe card which is changed.  (This would mean fewer emfs, because the direction of the antenna would then be different.)   
> >  
> > Will there be a noticeable difference if you leave the card in, but just disable it?  Yes, I saw a great difference from doing only this.  However, I saw a greater difference from pulling the cards out entirely.  I kept one in for awhile--the broadband card; I could not tolerate the wifi one at all.  If I made sure the closest broadband tower (cell tower) was behind my computer and not behind me, I was relatively tolerant of it.  However, if I was in a place where it was necessary to use my computer with ME between the computer and the cell tower, it was extremely bothersome.
> >  
> > And, btw, Svetaswan, you mentioned not having a switch to turn off your wifi and broadband cards.  Sveta, you may not have an external switch, but every computer has an internal switch in the control panel under "hardware devices".  On my computer, you access it by clicking "ControlPanel", then "System", then when that pops up, click the tab which says "Hardware", then on that page "Device Manager", that will bring upa long list of devices.  I then disabled my modems, network adaptors, and, anything pertaining to broadband and wifi.  Now understand, depending on how your computer is receiving internet currently, doing this on YOUR system might not work.  However, if you are receiving internet via an external modem box and ethernet cable (as I do), you will still be able to receive internet signals with these devices disabled.
> >  
> > Regarding computers in general and Dells, specifically. ... I am amazed at the number of people here who buy computers and Dell computers, specifically, and NEVER call their technical departments for ES help!  Toshiba was no help when I called them for ES help.  But the Dell techs took me completely seriously, hada good general knowledge of how to help me, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MY WELL BEING, and were greatly helpful.  So, don't trash Dellabout its emfs.  Dell does not know how many people their computers are negatively affecting unless you call them for help. 
> >  
> > Yes, today and for you, they may not solve 100% of the problems; however, we worked on my computer for a full month--up to 5+ hours a day!  (I talked on the phone to them from another room while they did some things remotely, and then for minutes at a time, I'd have to go into the room my computer was in and enter settings/check thingsout/etc myself.  The first week I did not spend more than an hour and a half each day working on my computer with them, because  everything we did was hardware related (and I had to make all the changes myself).  The techies could actually tell when I was becoming too affected and needed to quit, and would ask me if I shouldn't stop awhile or if I thought I could go on.  The last two techies I spoke with were upset and concerned for me that I would need help (and whether I'd be able to get it) after my 30 day software warranty expired if I had later issues.  Btw, I took the
> broadband card out with hardware
> > technical help 10 months after receiving my computer, because I had a year's warranty on my computer hardware, and I didn't want to void my warranty by removing it right away.  (Back then, they didn't require the wifi card, but did require the broadband card stay in for warranty purposes.  I imagine that now they would require the wifi card stay in for warranty purposes, too, due to its prevalence of use.)
> >  
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction? )
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 11:19 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Concerning: you should remove the wifi hardware from your pc, the scoreis 2-1!
> >
> > Diane and Snoshoe say you should
> > Bill says you shouldn't
> >
> > About the disavantage that a desktop can't work on batteries... Well maybe that's not so important because you can put your desktop some feet awayfrom where you work and from some distance most es-ers won't feel the low freq. emf...
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "svetaswan" <svetaswan@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, that's welcome news that simply turning the WiFi off seems sufficient. I was primarily reacting (or overreacting? ) not to your information, but to Stephen's post regarding the necessity of removing the WiFi from the computer. My struggle with the effects of e.s. has made me kind-of an obsessive worrywart when it comes to finding the "right" computer-setup. I guess that's what can happen when there is seemingly no computer without potential "flaws". I'm constantly trying to weigh the pros and cons - the lesser of the evils. Which "imperfections" could I live with, and which ones would give me problems? And I have to balance "alleviating" my e.s. problems with other concerns (economic, ergonomic).
> > >
> > > At this point, I know some type of compromise is going to have to be made somewhere. Take for example switching power supplies...unless you get a laptop and run them off of batteries all of the time, I don't think thereis any way to avoid a switching power supply in a computer. One could try to replace the switching power supply with a linear one - but I have nowhere near the technical expertise to do this, plus I wouldn't want to do anything to void the warranty of my computer. And since I have "real world" evidence that some type of desktop computer could actually work better for me than a laptop - there is the unavoidable reality that I could have to use a switching power supply.
> > >
> > > Speaking of switching power supplies - do you use the switching powersupply that comes with the Mac Mini? If so, do you find it problematic?
> > >
> > > ~Svetaswan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was trying to say that as far as I know, turning it off
> > > > is sufficient, except that in my experience it will mysteriously turn itself
> > > > on again a few times per year. Someone had asked about
> > > > removing it, which I have done on the laptop just because it
> > > > was easy.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually
> > > > > removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought thatI wanted
> > > > > the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't
> > > > > plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it's never
> > > > > been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable. I wanted
> > > > > to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible "kinks"
> > > > > in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection
> > > > > will be solid.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly.
> > > > > When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's
> > > > > laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Areyou sure
> > > > > that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > > >
> > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > > > "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi
> > > > > receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently
> > > > > also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough
> > > > > to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So youshould
> > > > > actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that
> > > > > in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stephen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers
> > > > > (or
> > > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this
> > > > > case
> > > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of
> > > > > disk
> > > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers
> > > > > produce
> > > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably
> > > > > more (I
> > > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to
> > > > > last at
> > > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the
> > > > > cost) -
> > > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknownof how
> > > > > SSDs
> > > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the only two
> > > > > words that
> > > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option fortheir Mac
> > > > > Minis
> > > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the option of
> > > > > attaching a
> > > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/
> > > > > USB
> > > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the
> > > > > computer.
> > > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you optfor the
> > > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of aMac Mini
> > > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put
> > > > > a SSD
> > > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com> <eSens%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with
> > > > > energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a
> > > > > nightmare
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologic website
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) -
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional
> > > > > hard-disk
> > > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is
> > > > > there a
> > > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but the prices
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra
> > > > > $650 for
> > > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs
> > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple's
> > > > > near-silence
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up"
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives would lead to
> > > > > a big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog" ? Are hard drives constantly spinning as
> > > > > long as
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice if each
> > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion
> > > > > of SSDs
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that peoplehaven't
> > > > > found
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply because the
> > > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Svetaswan,
>
> I think all es-ers have trouble explaining their sensitivity...
>
> Your parents seem like very normal people to me! Really, almost all people react like that, especially people that haven't personally experienced that food/emf has an impact on their health...
>
> In 2004 I moved out of my house in the city, I never felt good there for some reason: it could've been the police station closeby (radar) or the fact that I had painted the entire house on the inside (with standard paint).
>
> In 2005-2008 I lived with my parents. In 2006 I read wifi/dect was not healthy. Since then each night I unplugged the wifi and the dect... My motheralso thought I was exaggerating!
>
> Maybe that's a partial solution for you, unplug the wifi at night... At night it's even more important that you're in a low emf area...
>
> You know it took me almost 5 years to convince my parents not using theirdect/wifi anymore! In the past 5 years there was also more on emf in the media, which may have helped persuade them that I wasn't imagining everything...
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "svetaswan" <svetaswan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephen - like I've said before, if it were up to me, I would have rid the house of WiFi long ago. But I'm not in control of many household decisions, since I live with my parents. So far, I've had terrible luck in convincing my parents that WiFi is dangerous and has given me some alarming symptoms. They think it's all in my head - a figment of paranoia. This "impasse" has only added to my stress and to the various health problems I'm dealing with.
> >
> > This situation is emblematic of how life can, well, suck. Supposedly, e.s. can be related to having mercury-amalgam fillings - to "amalgam illness". Well, even prior to my realization that I was e.s. - there were signs that I've paid a steep price, healthwise, for all of the amalgam fillings that were placed into my mouth (not to mention the 2-plus years of regular allergy shots I had as a young teen - which exposed me to more mercury). Obviously, I was just a kid - utterly powerless to make any type of informed decision on the risks of mercury-amalgam fillings and thimerosol(sp.)-containing shots. The adults in my life - namely, my mother - made those decisions for me. Being a kid, I was really not equipped to do anything but passively comply with the medical/dental decisions that were made. I implicitly trusted that my mother was making a safe, informed choice - and that no harm would come to me for sitting in a dentist's chair.  
> >
> > Evidently, I was victimized by my mother's poor choices and by the "system". And it's like I'm being victimized all over again by my mother's dismissive attitude regarding what the mercury that *she* decided to expose meto has done, and by her refusal to believe me and help me alleviate the symptoms that have possibly been caused by the mercury that *she* allowed to enter my body. I would be more "forgiving" of my mother's ill-fated choices if she were more willing to take seriously the strong possibility that mercury-"poisoning" has contributed to my problems - but she's tormenting me with her dismissive accusations that I'm "crazy" for thinking that mercury-damage & electrosensitivity are real.
> >
> > Aside from our mercury/WiFi battles - I'm living with two parents who just don't share my values/beliefs on health-matters. For ex., my mother sees no value in getting shower filters (chronic, long-term exposure to chlorinated water is not a problem to her). When I wanted a shower filter for the bathroom I use, she wouldn't allow me to buy one. And my parents don't take other health precautions; i.e. fried commercial corn chips are a prominent part of their snacking choices, my mother uses margarine on her toast every day, they choose to quench their thirst with diet sodas all of the time (my mom never drinks any water, it seems). Although my Dad is in his '60s - he evidently sees no problem with snacking on bags of cheap candy - *pure sugar*. There are just many things wrong with that.
> >
> > They just aren't as careful about what they eat as I try to be (emphasis on "try" - frequently, I fall far short of my ideals!). So if they don'treally care about the health-related things that even mainstream medicine warns us about - I guess it's pretty hopeless that they would care about things that the mainstream doesn't (yet) acknowledge as a problem.  
> >
> > And it seems that my mom is far more interested in making cosmetic renovations to our house - things you can *see* - than she is in making certain"invisible", health-related improvements to our house. She considers it much more worth her while to buy a new painting, or new furniture - than buying a quality water filter, or getting rid of WiFi, or working on improvingour home's air-quality, or filtering "dirty electricity".  
> >
> > Sorry for the rant. And it's bad timing - it being Mother's Day and all. It can just be tremendously frustrating to be powerless in having to live under someone else's less-conscious health-values - and to know that something is doing you harm, but be powerless in doing something about it.
> >
> > I know it's baffling to group members that a fellow member of this group has WiFi in their home - the assumption being that it's a choice that's fully under my control. Well, sadly, it is a matter that is out of my control.
> >
> > ~Svetaswan
> >    
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "stephen_vandevijvere" <stephen_vandevijvere@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Svetaswan,
> > >
> > > Concerning wifi in your house, you know it emits a lot of emf… Evenif you don't "feel" it, you would better get rid of it asap (together withdect phone if you have one).
> > >
> > > Regards removing the Wifi-hardware in your pc, Diane and Snoshoe say you should. I'm copy pasting from their messages:
> > >
> > >
> > > -Snoshoe wrote:
> > >
> > > I just learned something about a week ago though.- Laptops with wifi,when you
> > > turn them off are not really off, and still transmitting for ?length of time.
> > > It was being talked about as a way for thieves to detect laptops in cars with
> > > some gadget, by picking up it's emitting for wifi.
> > >
> > > A bit like your cell phone is off, but it's not really all the way off.
> > > Cell phone you could put in a lead shielded bag made for film, and itwon't
> > > receive, when not in use.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Diane wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Snoshoe,
> > > Â
> > > That was why Dell techs helped me remove the cards (wifi and broadband) from my
> > > computer altogether. They told me the cards cannot be totally turned off.Â
> > > The switches that computers have to turn them off only dampen the signal.Â
> > > Otherwise they are always capable of receiving signals.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [hidden email], "svetaswan" <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought that I wanted the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it'snever been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable. I wanted to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible "kinks" in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection will be solid.  
> > > >
> > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly. When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > >
> > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Are you sure that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > >
> > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > >
> > > > --- In [hidden email], "stephen_vandevijvere" <stephen_vandevijvere@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > >
> > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > >
> > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So you should actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers (or
> > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this case
> > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of disk
> > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers produce
> > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably more (I
> > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to last at
> > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the cost) -
> > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknown of how SSDs
> > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the onlytwo words that
> > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option for their Mac Minis
> > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the optionof attaching a
> > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/ USB
> > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the computer.
> > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I don't
> > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you opt for the
> > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of a Mac Mini
> > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if I
> > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put a SSD
> > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a nightmare
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of people
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologicwebsite for
> > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) - because
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional hard-disk
> > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is there a
> > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and a
> > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but theprices for
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra $650 for
> > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For the
> > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs and
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs give
> > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased battery
> > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep the
> > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple'snear-silence
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up" such
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives wouldlead to a big
> > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components that
> > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog"? Are hard drives constantly spinning as long as
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when they
> > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice ifeach computer
> > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute to
> > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion of SSDs
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that people haven't found
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply becausethe
> > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> Hi, Stephen, Svetaswan, and All,
>  
> When I mentioned the necessity of removing the wifi (and Broadband!)cards from my computer, I was quoting Dell technicians, who I assume are more educated in such matters than most of us.  I was told specifically, that these cards are like "antennae".  And such, turning them on merely makes them "connect" to a "receiver" in your hardware portion of your computer.  Infact, tho, the connection when broken is only a wire's width apart, and, besides that, the emfs are still attracted to the "antenna" itself--the actual card.  The cards are just not hookedup to the "receiver" when you have the hardware switched off, or, in some cases, the card is laying flat instead of in an upright position and it is only the direction of the card which is changed.  (This would mean fewer emfs, because the direction of the antenna would then be different.)   
>  
> Will there be a noticeable difference if you leave the card in, but just disable it?  Yes, I saw a great difference from doing only this. However, I saw a greater difference from pulling the cards out entirely.  I kept one in for awhile--the broadband card; I could not tolerate the wifi one at all.  If I made sure the closest broadband tower (cell tower) was behind my computer and not behind me, I was relatively tolerant of it.  However, if I was in a place where it was necessary to use my computer with ME between the computer and the cell tower, it was extremely bothersome.
>  
> And, btw, Svetaswan, you mentioned not having a switch to turn off your wifi and broadband cards.  Sveta, you may not have an external switch, but every computer has an internal switch in the control panel under "hardware devices".  On my computer, you access it by clicking "Control Panel", then "System", then when that pops up, click the tab which says "Hardware", then on that page "Device Manager",that will bring up a long list of devices.  I then disabled my modems, network adaptors, and, anything pertaining to broadband and wifi.  Now understand, depending on how your computer is receiving internet currently, doing this on YOUR system might not work.  However, if you are receiving internet via an external modem box and ethernet cable (as I do), you will still be able to receive internet signals with these devices disabled.
>  
> Regarding computers in general and Dells, specifically.... I am amazed at the number of people here who buy computers and Dell computers, specifically, and NEVER call their technical departments for ES help!  Toshiba was no help when I called them for ES help.  But the Dell techs took me completely seriously, had a good general knowledge of how to help me, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MY WELL BEING, and were greatly helpful.  So, don't trash Dell about its emfs.  Dell does not know how many people their computers are negatively affecting unless you call them for help. 
>  
> Yes, today and for you, they may not solve 100% of the problems; however,we worked on my computer for a full month--up to 5+ hours a day!  (I talked on the phone to them from another room while they did somethings remotely, and then for minutes at a time, I'd have to go into the room my computer was in and enter settings/check things out/etc myself.  The first week I did not spend more than an hour and a half each day working on my computer with them, because everything we did was hardware related (and I had to make all the changes myself).  The techies could actually tell when I was becoming too affected and neededto quit, and would ask me if I shouldn't stop awhile or if I thought I could go on.  The last two techies I spoke with were upset and concerned for me that I would need help (and whether I'd be able to get it) after my 30 day software warranty expired if I had later issues.  Btw, I took the broadband card out with hardware
> technical help 10 months after receiving my computer, because I had a year's warranty on my computer hardware, and I didn't want to void my warranty by removing it right away.  (Back then, they didn't require thewifi card, but did require the broadband card stay in for warranty purposes.  I imagine that now they would require the wifi card stay in for warranty purposes, too, due to its prevalence of use.)
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction?)
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 11:19 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Concerning: you should remove the wifi hardware from your pc, the score is 2-1!
>
> Diane and Snoshoe say you should
> Bill says you shouldn't
>
> About the disavantage that a desktop can't work on batteries... Well maybe that's not so important because you can put your desktop some feet away from where you work and from some distance most es-ers won't feel the low freq. emf...
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "svetaswan" <svetaswan@ ..> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, that's welcome news that simply turning the WiFi off seems sufficient. I was primarily reacting (or overreacting? ) not to your information,but to Stephen's post regarding the necessity of removing the WiFi from the computer. My struggle with the effects of e.s. has made me kind-of an obsessive worrywart when it comes to finding the "right" computer-setup. I guess that's what can happen when there is seemingly no computer without potential "flaws". I'm constantly trying to weigh the pros and cons - the lesserof the evils. Which "imperfections" could I live with, and which ones would give me problems? And I have to balance "alleviating" my e.s. problems with other concerns (economic, ergonomic).
> >
> > At this point, I know some type of compromise is going to have to be made somewhere. Take for example switching power supplies...unless you get a laptop and run them off of batteries all of the time, I don't think there is any way to avoid a switching power supply in a computer. One could try toreplace the switching power supply with a linear one - but I have nowhere near the technical expertise to do this, plus I wouldn't want to do anything to void the warranty of my computer. And since I have "real world" evidence that some type of desktop computer could actually work better for me than a laptop - there is the unavoidable reality that I could have to use a switching power supply.
> >
> > Speaking of switching power supplies - do you use the switching power supply that comes with the Mac Mini? If so, do you find it problematic?
> >
> > ~Svetaswan
> >
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was trying to say that as far as I know, turning it off
> > > is sufficient, except that in my experience it will mysteriously turnitself
> > > on again a few times per year. Someone had asked about
> > > removing it, which I have done on the laptop just because it
> > > was easy.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually
> > > > removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought that Iwanted
> > > > the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't
> > > > plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it's never
> > > > been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable.I wanted
> > > > to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible"kinks"
> > > > in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection
> > > > will be solid.
> > > >
> > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly.
> > > > When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's
> > > > laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > >
> > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Are you sure
> > > > that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > >
> > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > >
> > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > > "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > >
> > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi
> > > > receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently
> > > > also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > >
> > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough
> > > > to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So you should
> > > > actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that
> > > > in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers
> > > > (or
> > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this
> > > > case
> > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of
> > > > disk
> > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers
> > > > produce
> > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably
> > > > more (I
> > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to
> > > > last at
> > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the
> > > > cost) -
> > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknown of how
> > > > SSDs
> > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the onlytwo
> > > > words that
> > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option for their Mac
> > > > Minis
> > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the optionof
> > > > attaching a
> > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/
> > > > USB
> > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the
> > > > computer.
> > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you opt for the
> > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of a Mac Mini
> > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if
> > > > I
> > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put
> > > > a SSD
> > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com> <eSens%
> > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with
> > > > energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a
> > > > nightmare
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of
> > > > people
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologicwebsite
> > > > for
> > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) -
> > > > because
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional
> > > > hard-disk
> > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is
> > > > there a
> > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and
> > > > a
> > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but theprices
> > > > for
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra
> > > > $650 for
> > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For
> > > > the
> > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs
> > > > and
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs
> > > > give
> > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased
> > > > battery
> > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep
> > > > the
> > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple's
> > > > near-silence
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up"
> > > > such
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives wouldlead to
> > > > a big
> > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components
> > > > that
> > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog" ? Are hard drives constantly spinning as
> > > > long as
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when
> > > > they
> > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice ifeach
> > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion
> > > > of SSDs
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that people haven't
> > > > found
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply becausethe
> > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>  
>
>  
>
> --- In [hidden email], Evie <evie15422@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Stephen, Svetaswan, and All,
> >  
> > When I mentioned the necessity of removing the wifi (and Broadband!) cards from my computer, I was quoting Dell technicians, who I assume are more educated in such matters than most of us.  I was told specifically, that these cards are like "antennae".  And such, turning themon merely makes them "connect" to a "receiver" in your hardware portion ofyour computer.  Infact, tho, the connection when broken is only a wire's width apart, and, besides that, the emfs are still attracted to the "antenna" itself--the actual card.  The cards are just not hooked up to the "receiver" when you have the hardware switched off, or, in some cases, the card is laying flat instead of in an upright position and it is only the direction of the card which is changed.  (This would mean fewer emfs, because the direction of the antenna would then be different.)   
> >  
> > Will there be a noticeable difference if you leave the card in, but just disable it?  Yes, I saw a great difference from doing only this.  However, I saw a greater difference from pulling the cards out entirely.  I kept one in for awhile--the broadband card; I could not tolerate the wifi one at all.  If I made sure the closest broadband tower (celltower) was behind my computer and not behind me, I was relatively tolerantof it.  However, if I was in a place where it was necessary to use my computer with ME between the computer and the cell tower, it was extremely bothersome.
> >  
> > And, btw, Svetaswan, you mentioned not having a switch to turn off your wifi and broadband cards.  Sveta, you may not have an external switch, but every computer has an internal switch in the control panel under "hardware devices".  On my computer, you access it by clicking "Control Panel", then "System", then when that pops up,click the tab which says "Hardware", then on that page "Device Manager", that will bring up a long list of devices.  I then disabled my modems, network adaptors, and, anything pertaining to broadband and wifi.  Now understand, depending on how your computer is receiving internet currently, doing this on YOUR system might not work.  However, if you are receiving internet via an external modem box and ethernet cable (as I do), you will still be able to receive internet signals with these devices disabled.
> >  
> > Regarding computers in general and Dells, specifically.... I am amazed at the number of people here who buy computers and Dell computers, specifically, and NEVER call their technical departments for ES help!  Toshiba was no help when I called them for ES help.  But the Dell techs took me completely seriously, had a good general knowledge of how to help me, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MY WELL BEING, and were greatly helpful.  So, don't trash Dell about its emfs.  Dell does not know how many people their computers are negatively affecting unless you call them for help. 
> >  
> > Yes, today and for you, they may not solve 100% of the problems; however, we worked on my computer for a full month--up to 5+ hours a day!  (I talked on the phone to them from another room while they did some things remotely, and then for minutes at a time, I'd have to go into theroom my computer was in and enter settings/check things out/etc myself.  The first week I did not spend more than an hour and a half each day working on my computer with them, because everything we did was hardware related (and I had to make all the changes myself).  The techies could actually tell when I was becoming too affected and neededto quit, and would ask me if I shouldn't stop awhile or if I thought I could go on.  The last two techies I spoke with were upset and concerned for me that I would need help (and whether I'd be able to get it) after my 30 day software warranty expired if I had later issues.  Btw, I took the broadband card out with hardware
> > technical help 10 months after receiving my computer, because I had a year's warranty on my computer hardware, and I didn't want to void my warranty by removing it right away.  (Back then, they didn't require the wifi card, but did require the broadband card stay in for warranty purposes.  I imagine that now they would require the wifi card stay in for warranty purposes, too, due to its prevalence of use.)
> >  
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction?)
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 11:19 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Concerning: you should remove the wifi hardware from your pc, the scoreis 2-1!
> >
> > Diane and Snoshoe say you should
> > Bill says you shouldn't
> >
> > About the disavantage that a desktop can't work on batteries... Well maybe that's not so important because you can put your desktop some feet awayfrom where you work and from some distance most es-ers won't feel the low freq. emf...
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "svetaswan" <svetaswan@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, that's welcome news that simply turning the WiFi off seems sufficient. I was primarily reacting (or overreacting? ) not to your information, but to Stephen's post regarding the necessity of removing the WiFi from the computer. My struggle with the effects of e.s. has made me kind-of an obsessive worrywart when it comes to finding the "right" computer-setup. I guess that's what can happen when there is seemingly no computer without potential "flaws". I'm constantly trying to weigh the pros and cons - the lesser of the evils. Which "imperfections" could I live with, and which ones would give me problems? And I have to balance "alleviating" my e.s. problems with other concerns (economic, ergonomic).
> > >
> > > At this point, I know some type of compromise is going to have to be made somewhere. Take for example switching power supplies...unless you get a laptop and run them off of batteries all of the time, I don't think thereis any way to avoid a switching power supply in a computer. One could try to replace the switching power supply with a linear one - but I have nowhere near the technical expertise to do this, plus I wouldn't want to do anything to void the warranty of my computer. And since I have "real world" evidence that some type of desktop computer could actually work better for me than a laptop - there is the unavoidable reality that I could have to use a switching power supply.
> > >
> > > Speaking of switching power supplies - do you use the switching powersupply that comes with the Mac Mini? If so, do you find it problematic?
> > >
> > > ~Svetaswan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was trying to say that as far as I know, turning it off
> > > > is sufficient, except that in my experience it will mysteriously turn itself
> > > > on again a few times per year. Someone had asked about
> > > > removing it, which I have done on the laptop just because it
> > > > was easy.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually
> > > > > removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought thatI wanted
> > > > > the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't
> > > > > plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it's never
> > > > > been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable. I wanted
> > > > > to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible "kinks"
> > > > > in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection
> > > > > will be solid.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly.
> > > > > When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's
> > > > > laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Areyou sure
> > > > > that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > > >
> > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > > > "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi
> > > > > receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently
> > > > > also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough
> > > > > to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So youshould
> > > > > actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that
> > > > > in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stephen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers
> > > > > (or
> > > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this
> > > > > case
> > > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of
> > > > > disk
> > > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers
> > > > > produce
> > > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably
> > > > > more (I
> > > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to
> > > > > last at
> > > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the
> > > > > cost) -
> > > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknownof how
> > > > > SSDs
> > > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the only two
> > > > > words that
> > > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option fortheir Mac
> > > > > Minis
> > > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the option of
> > > > > attaching a
> > > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/
> > > > > USB
> > > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the
> > > > > computer.
> > > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you optfor the
> > > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of aMac Mini
> > > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put
> > > > > a SSD
> > > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com> <eSens%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with
> > > > > energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a
> > > > > nightmare
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologic website
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) -
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional
> > > > > hard-disk
> > > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is
> > > > > there a
> > > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but the prices
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra
> > > > > $650 for
> > > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs
> > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple's
> > > > > near-silence
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up"
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives would lead to
> > > > > a big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog" ? Are hard drives constantly spinning as
> > > > > long as
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice if each
> > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion
> > > > > of SSDs
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that peoplehaven't
> > > > > found
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply because the
> > > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

> software techs; they often helped me remotely by taking control of my computer themselves (using "remote assistant").  There were 5 of them--it depended on the time of day I called, as to who I got.  Also, they sometimes transferred me between themselves, as some had different areas of training.
>  
> This was all free, as part of the warranty package at the time:  30 days free software support; 1 year free hardware support.  But none of it was in-home;  all was by phone.
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction? )
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 4:31 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Diane, this is all very interesting!
>
> Not completely clear for me though, are you saying that Dell sent 2 of their ICT-guys to help you for ONE ENTIRE MONTH in your own house on your Dell-pc?! And who paid for that? Dell or you?
>
> Stephen.
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Evie <evie15422@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Stephen, Svetaswan, and All,
> >  
> > When I mentioned the necessity of removing the wifi (and Broadband!) cards from my computer, Iwas quoting Dell technicians, who I assume are more educated in such matters than most of us.  I was told specifically, that these cards are like "antennae".  And such, turning them on merely makes them "connect" to a "receiver" in your hardware portion of your computer.  Infact, tho, the connection when broken is only a wire's width apart, and, besides that, the emfs are still attracted to the "antenna" itself--theactual card.  The cards are just not hooked up to the "receiver" when you have the hardware switched off, or, in some cases, the card is laying flat instead of in an upright position and it is only the direction of the card which is changed.  (This would mean fewer emfs, because the direction of the antenna would then be different.)   
> >  
> > Will there be a noticeable difference if you leave the card in, but just disable it?  Yes, I saw a great difference fromdoing only this.  However, I saw a greater difference from pulling the cards out entirely.  I kept one in for awhile--the broadband card; I could not tolerate the wifi one at all.  If I made sure the closest broadband tower (cell tower) was behind my computer and not behind me, I was relatively tolerant of it.  However, if I was in a place where it was necessary to use my computer with ME between the computer and the cell tower, it was extremely bothersome.
> >  
> > And, btw, Svetaswan, you mentioned not havinga switch to turn off your wifi and broadband cards.  Sveta, you may not have an external switch, but every computer has an internal switch in the control panel under "hardware devices".  On my computer, you access itby clicking "Control Panel", then "System", thenwhen that pops up, click the tab which says "Hardware", then on that page "Device Manager", that will bring up a long listof devices.  I then disabled my modems, network adaptors, and, anything pertaining to broadband and wifi.  Now understand, depending on how your computer is receiving internet currently, doing this on YOUR system might not work.  However, if you are receiving internet via an external modem box and ethernet cable (as I do), you will still beable to receive internet signals with these devices disabled.
> >  
> > Regarding computers in general and Dells, specifically. ... I am amazed at the number of people here who buy computers and Dell computers, specifically, and NEVER call their technical departments for ES help!  Toshiba was no help when I called them for ES help.  But the Dell techs took me completely seriously, had a good general knowledge of how to help me, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MY WELLBEING, and were greatly helpful.  So, don't trash Dell about its emfs.  Dell does not know how many people their computers are negatively affecting unless you call them for help. 
> >  
> > Yes, today and for you, they may not solve 100% of the problems; however, we worked on my computer for a full month--up to 5+ hours a day!  (I talked on the phone to them from another room while they did some things remotely, and then for minutes at a time, I'd have to go into the room my computer was in and enter settings/check things out/etc myself.  The first week I did not spend more than an hour and a half each day working on my computer with them, because  everything we did was hardware related (and I had to make all the changes myself).  The techies could actually tell when I was becoming too affected and needed to quit, and would ask me if I shouldn't stop awhile or if I thought I could goon.  The last two techies I spoke with were upset and concerned for me that I would need help (and whether I'd be ableto get it) after my 30 day

> broadband card out with hardware
> > technical help 10 months after receiving my computer, because I had a year's warranty on my computer hardware, and I didn't want to void my warranty by removing it right away.  (Back then, they didn't require the wifi card, but did require the broadband card stay in for warranty purposes.  I imagine that now they would require the wifi card stay in for warranty purposes, too, due to its prevalence of use.)
> >  
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction? )
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 11:19 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Concerning: you should remove the wifi hardware from your pc, the scoreis 2-1!
> >
> > Diane and Snoshoe say you should
> > Bill says you shouldn't
> >
> > About the disavantage that a desktop can't work on batteries... Well maybe that's not so important because you can put your desktop some feet awayfrom where you work and from some distance most es-ers won't feel the low freq. emf...
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "svetaswan" <svetaswan@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, that's welcome news that simply turning the WiFi off seems sufficient. I was primarily reacting (or overreacting? ) not to your information, but to Stephen's post regarding the necessity of removing the WiFi from the computer. My struggle with the effects of e.s. has made me kind-of an obsessive worrywart when it comes to finding the "right" computer-setup. I guess that's what can happen when there is seemingly no computer without potential "flaws". I'm constantly trying to weigh the pros and cons - the lesser of the evils. Which "imperfections" could I live with, and which ones would give me problems? And I have to balance "alleviating" my e.s. problems with other concerns (economic, ergonomic).
> > >
> > > At this point, I know some type of compromise is going to have to be made somewhere. Take for example switching power supplies...unless you get a laptop and run them off of batteries all of the time, I don't think thereis any way to avoid a switching power supply in a computer. One could try to replace the switching power supply with a linear one - but I have nowhere near the technical expertise to do this, plus I wouldn't want to do anything to void the warranty of my computer. And since I have "real world" evidence that some type of desktop computer could actually work better for me than a laptop - there is the unavoidable reality that I could have to use a switching power supply.
> > >
> > > Speaking of switching power supplies - do you use the switching powersupply that comes with the Mac Mini? If so, do you find it problematic?
> > >
> > > ~Svetaswan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I was trying to say that as far as I know, turning it off
> > > > is sufficient, except that in my experience it will mysteriously turn itself
> > > > on again a few times per year. Someone had asked about
> > > > removing it, which I have done on the laptop just because it
> > > > was easy.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually
> > > > > removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought thatI wanted
> > > > > the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't
> > > > > plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it's never
> > > > > been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable. I wanted
> > > > > to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible "kinks"
> > > > > in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection
> > > > > will be solid.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly.
> > > > > When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's
> > > > > laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Areyou sure
> > > > > that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > > >
> > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > > > "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi
> > > > > receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently
> > > > > also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough
> > > > > to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So youshould
> > > > > actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that
> > > > > in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stephen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers
> > > > > (or
> > > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this
> > > > > case
> > > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of
> > > > > disk
> > > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers
> > > > > produce
> > > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably
> > > > > more (I
> > > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to
> > > > > last at
> > > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the
> > > > > cost) -
> > > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknownof how
> > > > > SSDs
> > > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the only two
> > > > > words that
> > > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option fortheir Mac
> > > > > Minis
> > > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the option of
> > > > > attaching a
> > > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/
> > > > > USB
> > > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the
> > > > > computer.
> > > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you optfor the
> > > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of aMac Mini
> > > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put
> > > > > a SSD
> > > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com> <eSens%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with
> > > > > energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a
> > > > > nightmare
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologic website
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) -
> > > > > because
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional
> > > > > hard-disk
> > > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is
> > > > > there a
> > > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but the prices
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra
> > > > > $650 for
> > > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs
> > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased
> > > > > battery
> > > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple's
> > > > > near-silence
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up"
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives would lead to
> > > > > a big
> > > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog" ? Are hard drives constantly spinning as
> > > > > long as
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice if each
> > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion
> > > > > of SSDs
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that peoplehaven't
> > > > > found
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply because the
> > > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> From: Evie <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
> Hi, Svetaswan,
>  
> I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have
> these problems you mention with normal people; you are not
> alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the
> "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more Orwellian. 
> ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the
> past year or two in some public opinion. 
>  
> Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate
> changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea
> how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system
> changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned by
> others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to
> monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what
> you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it
> as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit
> meaningful readings.
>  
> You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate
> monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best,
> then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when
> you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes
> up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most
> people will agree that you can't psychologically control
> tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign you are
> upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little
> to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able
> to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes,
> respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf
> exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the
> easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience
> chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit
> temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely
> be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you find
> theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to
> a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not
> yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal
> to this disorder.)
>  
> When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My
> normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When
> I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20
> mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp
> tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When
> I bring my bp back up (with supplements), the exhaustion
> also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to
> right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this
> often.  So you will have to take readings over a long
> period of time to understand how your body works.  I often
> can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst,
> but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and
> succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term
> exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can
> no longer deal with it and stresses out.
>  
> It is empowering when you have people who support you
> and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is
> most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you
> can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too,
> Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share
> with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens
> regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info
> here in the past year to share with others.  Don't give
> reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
>  
> I wish you the best,
> Diane
>

>
> Hi, Stephen, Svetaswan, and All,
>  
> When I mentioned the necessity of removing the wifi (and Broadband!) cards from my computer, I was quoting Dell technicians, who I assume are more educated in such matters than most of us.  I was told specifically, that these cards are like "antennae".  And such, turning them on merely makes them "connect" to a "receiver" in your hardware portion of your computer.  Infact, tho, the connection when broken is only a wire's width apart, and, besides that, the emfs are still attracted to the "antenna" itself--the actual card.  The cards are just not hooked up to the "receiver" when you have the hardware switched off, or, in some cases, the card is layingflat instead of in an upright position and it is only the direction of thecard which is changed.  (This would mean fewer emfs, because the direction of the antenna would then be different.)  
>  
> Will there be a noticeable difference if you leave the card in, but just disable it?  Yes, I saw a great difference from doing only this.  However, I saw a greater difference from pulling the cards outentirely.  I kept one in for awhile--the broadband card; I could not tolerate the wifi one at all.  If I made sure the closest broadband tower (cell tower) was behind my computer and not behind me, I was relatively tolerant of it.  However, if I was in a place where it was necessary to use my computer with ME between the computer and the cell tower, it was extremely bothersome.
>  
> And, btw, Svetaswan, you mentioned not having a switch to turn off your wifi and broadband cards.  Sveta, you may not have an external switch, but every computer has an internal switch in the control panel under "hardware devices".  On my computer, you access it by clicking "Control Panel", then "System", then when that pops up, click the tab which says "Hardware", then on that page "Device Manager", that will bring up a long list of devices.  I then disabled my modems, network adaptors, and, anything pertaining to broadband and wifi.  Now understand, depending on how your computer is receiving internet currently, doing this on YOUR system might not work.  However, if you are receiving internet via an external modem box and ethernet cable (as Ido), you will still be able to receive internet signals with these devicesdisabled.
>  
> Regarding computers in general and Dells, specifically. ... I am amazed at the number of people here who buy computers and Dell computers, specifically, and NEVER call their technical departments for ES help!  Toshiba was no help when I called them for ES help.  But the Dell techs took me completely seriously, hada good general knowledge of how to help me, WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MY WELL BEING, and were greatly helpful.  So, don't trash Dellabout its emfs.  Dell does not know how many people their computers are negatively affecting unless you call them for help. 
>  
> Yes, today and for you, they may not solve 100% of the problems; however,we worked on my computer for a full month--up to 5+ hours a day!  (I talked on the phone to them from another room while they did some things remotely, and then for minutes at a time, I'd have to go into the room my computer was in and enter settings/check things out/etc myself.  The first week I did not spend more than an hour and a half each day working on my computer with them, because  everything we did was hardware related (and I had to make all the changes myself).  The techies could actually tell when I was becoming too affected and needed to quit, and would askme if I shouldn't stop awhile or if I thought I could go on.  The last two techies I spoke with were upset and concerned for me that I would need help (and whether I'd be able to get it) after my 30 day software warranty expired if I had later issues.  Btw, I took the

> technical help 10 months after receiving my computer, because I had a year's warranty on my computer hardware, and I didn't want to void my warranty by removing it right away.  (Back then, they didn't require the wifi card, but did require the broadband card stay in for warranty purposes.  I imagine that now they would require the wifi card stay in for warranty purposes, too, due to its prevalence of use.)
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop (SSD drives - worth the cost for emf-reduction? )
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 11:19 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Concerning: you should remove the wifi hardware from your pc, the score is 2-1!
>
> Diane and Snoshoe say you should
> Bill says you shouldn't
>
> About the disavantage that a desktop can't work on batteries... Well maybe that's not so important because you can put your desktop some feet away from where you work and from some distance most es-ers won't feel the low freq. emf...
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "svetaswan" <svetaswan@ ..> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, that's welcome news that simply turning the WiFi off seems sufficient. I was primarily reacting (or overreacting? ) not to your information,but to Stephen's post regarding the necessity of removing the WiFi from the computer. My struggle with the effects of e.s. has made me kind-of an obsessive worrywart when it comes to finding the "right" computer-setup. I guess that's what can happen when there is seemingly no computer without potential "flaws". I'm constantly trying to weigh the pros and cons - the lesserof the evils. Which "imperfections" could I live with, and which ones would give me problems? And I have to balance "alleviating" my e.s. problems with other concerns (economic, ergonomic).
> >
> > At this point, I know some type of compromise is going to have to be made somewhere. Take for example switching power supplies...unless you get a laptop and run them off of batteries all of the time, I don't think there is any way to avoid a switching power supply in a computer. One could try toreplace the switching power supply with a linear one - but I have nowhere near the technical expertise to do this, plus I wouldn't want to do anything to void the warranty of my computer. And since I have "real world" evidence that some type of desktop computer could actually work better for me than a laptop - there is the unavoidable reality that I could have to use a switching power supply.
> >
> > Speaking of switching power supplies - do you use the switching power supply that comes with the Mac Mini? If so, do you find it problematic?
> >
> > ~Svetaswan
> >
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was trying to say that as far as I know, turning it off
> > > is sufficient, except that in my experience it will mysteriously turnitself
> > > on again a few times per year. Someone had asked about
> > > removing it, which I have done on the laptop just because it
> > > was easy.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean that I would have to go through the extra trouble of actually
> > > > removing the WiFi hardware? What a pain! Actually, I thought that Iwanted
> > > > the "security" of my computer being at least WiFi enabled, even if I don't
> > > > plan to use it. Although my house has one ethernet connection - it's never
> > > > been used/tested, and our WiFi has generally proven to be reliable.I wanted
> > > > to have WiFi as a "backup" - at least until I work out any possible"kinks"
> > > > in my ethernet connection and I'm confident that the ethernet connection
> > > > will be solid.
> > > >
> > > > And Apple seems to make disabling WiFi/bluetooth so easy and user-friendly.
> > > > When I tried to search for the WiFi-disabling function on my brother's
> > > > laptop (Windows 7), I couldn't find it.
> > > >
> > > > Why would a device that is turned *off* still emit radiation? Are you sure
> > > > that it's enough radiation to be significant?
> > > >
> > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > >
> > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>,
> > > > "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijve re@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > About the Mac Mini,
> > > > >
> > > > > On the Belgian Apple-website it says it comes standard with a Wifi
> > > > receiver and Bluetooth. Which is just awesome! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought Wifi receivers only come standard on laptops but apparently
> > > > also on some desktops... I think they emit quite a lot of emf.
> > > > >
> > > > > A month ago or so I read here (I think it was Diane) that it's not enough
> > > > to put the Wifi off on your pc. Then it still emits emf... So you should
> > > > actually remove the Wifi receiver hardware thingie! Maybe they can do that
> > > > in the shop if they're a little bit handy...
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know whether the same applies for Bluetooth...
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are actually multiple controllers, but dc motors have controllers
> > > > (or
> > > > > > possibly worse, brushes) and those are the ones worth avoiding in this
> > > > case
> > > > > > with a HD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a bit surprised they don't offer a SSD on the mini by now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 3:05 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can't say I have a good understanding of components like disk
> > > > > > > "controllers" - but from the little I've read, don't all types of
> > > > disk
> > > > > > > drives - not just HDDs - have controllers? Or do HDD controllers
> > > > produce
> > > > > > > more emr than SSD controllers?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And I hope SSDs are good for at least 6 years of use - preferably
> > > > more (I
> > > > > > > got 7 good years out of my 2001 Gateway, and I expect an Apple to
> > > > last at
> > > > > > > least that long). I guess that's the downside of a SSD (besides the
> > > > cost) -
> > > > > > > after a lifetime of HDDs, you're entering the great unknown of how
> > > > SSDs
> > > > > > > perform (especially over the long-term). But I hope their long-term
> > > > > > > durability would not be an issue for me - after all, the onlytwo
> > > > words that
> > > > > > > Apple utters about its SSDs are "enhanced durability", lol.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I really wish is that Apple offered the SSD option for their Mac
> > > > Minis
> > > > > > > - as I've been considering this computer more than the Macbook Pro,
> > > > > > > actually. A Mac Mini would seemingly better foster the optionof
> > > > attaching a
> > > > > > > (tolerable) external display, plus the separate keyboard/mouse (w/
> > > > USB
> > > > > > > extender cables) - so I can sit at a greater distance from the
> > > > computer.
> > > > > > > (Not sure if I would be able to get 5 feet from it, though.) And I
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > like that Macbook Pros only have 2 USB drives (3 if you opt for the
> > > > > > > back-breakingly expensive 17" model).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps there is a way in which I can get a SSD inside of a Mac Mini
> > > > > > > without voiding the warranty. I wonder how flexible Apple would be if
> > > > I
> > > > > > > spoke with them about my situation and whether or not they could put
> > > > a SSD
> > > > > > > inside of a Mac Mini for me?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com <eSens%40yahoogroup s.com> <eSens%
> > > > 40yahoogroups. com>, Bill Bruno
> > > > > > > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have found Richard's advice to be excellent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have an SSD in one laptop, and I like it.
> > > > > > > > It is quite small, like 48GB. If you need more
> > > > > > > > just get an external drive for when you need it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you get a non-apple one, make sure it is
> > > > > > > > the fast kind... I think "single level" or whatever it's called
> > > > > > > > or the OS will have problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If it's for a computer that is going to be more than
> > > > > > > > 5 feet away it may be less of a concern, but
> > > > > > > > it's not just the motor but also the controller to
> > > > > > > > be worried about, and that will affect other components.
> > > > > > > > My machine does not need the fan except with
> > > > > > > > heavy cpu loads like indexing, so I have spotlight
> > > > > > > > disabled.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you've ever had a hard drive fail, an SSD also seems
> > > > > > > > attractive, although apparently they do wear out over time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:14 AM, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First of all - I just want to apologize for not being able to
> > > > > > > contribute to
> > > > > > > > > the group as much as I'd like to. I'm just swamped with
> > > > energy-draining
> > > > > > > > > problems, it seems - for starters, my "brain fog" has been a
> > > > nightmare
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > live with, and there are signs that my anemia has gotten worse.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh well, enough "woe is me" for now. I've seen where a couple of
> > > > people
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the e.s. community (Richard Conrad of the Conrad Biologicwebsite
> > > > for
> > > > > > > one)
> > > > > > > > > has recommended SSD drives for computers (especially laptops) -
> > > > because
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > supposedly give off less emr emissions than conventional
> > > > hard-disk
> > > > > > > drives.
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering how signficant these emr reductions are. Is
> > > > there a
> > > > > > > big
> > > > > > > > > difference in emr emissions between, say, a 500GB hard drive and
> > > > a
> > > > > > > 500GB
> > > > > > > > > SSD?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Apple offers SSD options for their Macbook Pros - but theprices
> > > > for
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > SSDS are ridiculously expensive. (It's something like an extra
> > > > $650 for
> > > > > > > > > their 250GB SSD, and whopping $1,300 for their 500 GB SSD.) For
> > > > the
> > > > > > > prices
> > > > > > > > > to be so steep, Apple gives almost *no* information on their SSDs
> > > > and
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > supposed advantages - they only offer the vague phrase that SSDs
> > > > give
> > > > > > > > > "enhanced durability". That's it - no statement on increased
> > > > battery
> > > > > > > life
> > > > > > > > > and/or lower power consumption, no statement on how SSDs may keep
> > > > the
> > > > > > > laptop
> > > > > > > > > cooler, or anything. I don't know what to make of Apple's
> > > > near-silence
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > this bank-breaking component - you'd think that they'd "talk up"
> > > > such
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > expensive device more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if these "mysterious" SSD drives wouldlead to
> > > > a big
> > > > > > > > > difference in my e.s. symptoms. Of all of the laptop components
> > > > that
> > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > off (bothersome) emissions - how much does a spinning hard drive
> > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > to this "electrosmog" ? Are hard drives constantly spinning as
> > > > long as
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > computer/laptop is on - or do they "rest" or stop spinning when
> > > > they
> > > > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > > > needed? Is the hard drive even active during Internet activity?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are the biggest contributers to electrosmog emissions - the
> > > > > > > wireless
> > > > > > > > > card, CPU, GPU, hard drive, or fans? (It would be nice ifeach
> > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > component could be "ranked" according to how much they contribute
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > bothersome emissions.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Btw, I've noticed that there really hasn't been much discussion
> > > > of SSDs
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > here at all - I don't know if that's a sign that people haven't
> > > > found
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > that helpful in terms of e.s. symptoms, or simply becausethe
> > > > > > > technology is
> > > > > > > > > still in the "obscure" stages (not to mention the cos$t!).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ~Svetaswan
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
> Hi, Svetaswan,
>  
> I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have
> these problems you mention with normal people; you are not
> alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the
> "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more Orwellian. 
> ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the
> past year or two in some public opinion. 
>  
> Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate
> changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea
> how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system
> changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned by
> others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to
> monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what
> you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it
> as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit
> meaningful readings.
>  
> You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate
> monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best,
> then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when
> you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes
> up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most
> people will agree that you can't psychologicall y control
> tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign you are
> upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little
> to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able
> to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes,
> respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf
> exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the
> easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience
> chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit
> temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely
> be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you find
> theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to
> a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not
> yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal
> to this disorder.)
>  
> When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My
> normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When
> I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20
> mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp
> tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When
> I bring my bp back up (with supplements) , the exhaustion
> also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to
> right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this
> often.  So you will have to take readings over a long
> period of time to understand how your body works.  I often
> can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst,
> but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and
> succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term
> exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can
> no longer deal with it and stresses out.
>  
> It is empowering when you have people who support you
> and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is
> most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you
> can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too,
> Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share
> with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens
> regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info
> here in the past year to share with others.  Don't give
> reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
>  
> I wish you the best,
> Diane
>

> From: Evie <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 8:34 AM
> I take Calcium AEP and pantethine. 
> I also take CoQ10 as a regular supplement.  These 3 supps
> feed the lymphatics and adrenals.  Check the posts from
> around 2 weeks ago, Steve, for more details;  I recently
> went into depth on how to take, etc, etc,.... 
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Steve G <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Steve G <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi
> woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 10:45 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Diane,
> I also have tanking blood pressure. What supplements do you
> take to get it to rise?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop -
> WiFi woes
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
> > Hi, Svetaswan,
> >  
> > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all
> have
> > these problems you mention with normal people; you are
> not
> > alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them
> the
> > "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more
> Orwellian. 
> > ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in
> the
> > past year or two in some public opinion. 
> >  
> > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate
> > changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have
> no idea
> > how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous
> system
> > changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned
> by
> > others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy
> to
> > monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell
> anyone what
> > you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may
> see it
> > as proof you are imagining things if you cannot
> elicit
> > meaningful readings.
> >  
> > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate
> > monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best,
> > then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again
> when
> > you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate
> goes
> > up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs. 
> Most
> > people will agree that you can't psychologicall
> y control
> > tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign
> you are
> > upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means
> little
> > to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be
> able
> > to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes,
> > respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf
> > exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> > changes which show when I check them, but the bp is
> the
> > easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you
> experience
> > chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can
> elicit
> > temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will
> likely
> > be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you
> find
> > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go
> to
> > a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs
> do not
> > yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as
> causal
> > to this disorder.)
> >  
> > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly. 
> My
> > normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85. 
> When
> > I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40
> in 20
> > mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> > exposures.  With experience, I have found that this
> bp
> > tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows. 
> When
> > I bring my bp back up (with supplements) , the
> exhaustion
> > also clears up.  You will also see that your body
> tries to
> > right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do
> this
> > often.  So you will have to take readings over a
> long
> > period of time to understand how your body works.  I
> often
> > can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my
> worst,
> > but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try
> and
> > succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long
> term
> > exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my
> body can
> > no longer deal with it and stresses out.
> >  
> > It is empowering when you have people who support you
> > and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't. 
> It is
> > most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if
> you
> > can.  Give them as much computer info as you can
> too,
> > Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles. 
> Share
> > with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its
> citizens
> > regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good
> info
> > here in the past year to share with others.  Don't
> give
> > reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> >  
> > I wish you the best,
> > Diane
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     [hidden email]
>
>
>

> From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 8:34 AM
> I take Calcium AEP and pantethine. 
> I also take CoQ10 as a regular supplement.  These 3 supps
> feed the lymphatics and adrenals.  Check the posts from
> around 2 weeks ago, Steve, for more details;  I recently
> went into depth on how to take, etc, etc,.... 
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Steve G <torch369@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Steve G <torch369@yahoo. com>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi
> woes
> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 10:45 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Diane,
> I also have tanking blood pressure. What supplements do you
> take to get it to rise?
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop -
> WiFi woes
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
> > Hi, Svetaswan,
> >  
> > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all
> have
> > these problems you mention with normal people; you are
> not
> > alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them
> the
> > "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more
> Orwellian. 
> > ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in
> the
> > past year or two in some public opinion. 
> >  
> > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate
> > changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have
> no idea
> > how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous
> system
> > changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned
> by
> > others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy
> to
> > monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell
> anyone what
> > you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may
> see it
> > as proof you are imagining things if you cannot
> elicit
> > meaningful readings.
> >  
> > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate
> > monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best,
> > then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again
> when
> > you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate
> goes
> > up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs. 
> Most
> > people will agree that you can't psychologicall
> y control
> > tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign
> you are
> > upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means
> little
> > to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be
> able
> > to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes,
> > respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf
> > exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> > changes which show when I check them, but the bp is
> the
> > easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you
> experience
> > chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can
> elicit
> > temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will
> likely
> > be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you
> find
> > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go
> to
> > a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs
> do not
> > yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as
> causal
> > to this disorder.)
> >  
> > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly. 
> My
> > normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85. 
> When
> > I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40
> in 20
> > mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> > exposures.  With experience, I have found that this
> bp
> > tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows. 
> When
> > I bring my bp back up (with supplements) , the
> exhaustion
> > also clears up.  You will also see that your body
> tries to
> > right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do
> this
> > often.  So you will have to take readings over a
> long
> > period of time to understand how your body works.  I
> often
> > can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my
> worst,
> > but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try
> and
> > succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long
> term
> > exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my
> body can
> > no longer deal with it and stresses out.
> >  
> > It is empowering when you have people who support you
> > and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't. 
> It is
> > most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if
> you
> > can.  Give them as much computer info as you can
> too,
> > Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles. 
> Share
> > with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its
> citizens
> > regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good
> info
> > here in the past year to share with others.  Don't
> give
> > reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> >  
> > I wish you the best,
> > Diane
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     eSens-fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
>
>
>

> From: Evie <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 12:35 PM
> You will have to take more like 300
> mg CoQ10 sublingually (to by-pass the gut) for a month to 6
> months before you will likely see a difference, Steve.  But
> I saw a bigger difference with Cal AEP and pantethine than
> CoQ10.  I still use it tho. 
>  
> Diane
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Steve G <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Steve G <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi
> woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 12:49 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> I actually bought the pantethine and cal orotate. I thought
> I got a weird reaction to it but then again I have been
> feeling odd for a few weeks now with them or without them. I
> already take CoQ10, 100Mg. No energy but its supposed to be
> good for the gums.
>
> --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop -
> WiFi woes
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 8:34 AM
> > I take Calcium AEP and pantethine. 
> > I also take CoQ10 as a regular supplement.  These 3
> supps
> > feed the lymphatics and adrenals.  Check the posts
> from
> > around 2 weeks ago, Steve, for more details;  I
> recently
> > went into depth on how to take, etc, etc,.... 
> >  
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Steve G <torch369@yahoo.
> com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Steve G <torch369@yahoo. com>
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop -
> WiFi
> > woes
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 10:45 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Diane,
> > I also have tanking blood pressure. What supplements
> do you
> > take to get it to rise?
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >
> > --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Evie <evie15422@yahoo.
> com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop
> -
> > WiFi woes
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 7:40 AM
> > > Hi, Svetaswan,
> > >  
> > > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....)
> all
> > have
> > > these problems you mention with normal people;
> you are
> > not
> > > alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call
> them
> > the
> > > "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more
> > Orwellian. 
> > > ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn
> in
> > the
> > > past year or two in some public opinion. 
> > >  
> > > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart
> rate
> > > changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I
> have
> > no idea
> > > how many of us have noticeable autonomic
> nervous
> > system
> > > changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as
> mentioned
> > by
> > > others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so
> easy
> > to
> > > monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell
> > anyone what
> > > you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They
> may
> > see it
> > > as proof you are imagining things if you cannot
> > elicit
> > > meaningful readings.
> > >  
> > > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart
> rate
> > > monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your
> best,
> > > then when you feel "normal" for you, and then
> again
> > when
> > > you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart
> rate
> > goes
> > > up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad
> emfs. 
> > Most
> > > people will agree that you can't psychologicall
> > y control
> > > tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a
> sign
> > you are
> > > upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it
> means
> > little
> > > to people if that changes, usually.  But you
> might be
> > able
> > > to find temperature changes, blood sugar
> changes,
> > > respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad
> emf
> > > exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood
> sugar
> > > changes which show when I check them, but the bp
> is
> > the
> > > easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you
> > experience
> > > chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can
> > elicit
> > > temperature differences on a thermometer, but it
> will
> > likely
> > > be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If
> you
> > find
> > > theae changes to be the case, however, you can
> also go
> > to
> > > a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these
> docs
> > do not
> > > yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers
> as
> > causal
> > > to this disorder.)
> > >  
> > > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean
> significantly. 
> > My
> > > normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to
> 85. 
> > When
> > > I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to
> 60/40
> > in 20
> > > mins and I have had even lower than that with
> longer
> > > exposures.  With experience, I have found that
> this
> > bp
> > > tanking is what causes the exhaustion which
> follows. 
> > When
> > > I bring my bp back up (with supplements) , the
> > exhaustion
> > > also clears up.  You will also see that your
> body
> > tries to
> > > right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can
> do
> > this
> > > often.  So you will have to take readings over
> a
> > long
> > > period of time to understand how your body
> works.  I
> > often
> > > can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel
> my
> > worst,
> > > but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will
> try
> > and
> > > succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why
> long
> > term
> > > exposures are more meaningful.  After a while,
> my
> > body can
> > > no longer deal with it and stresses out.
> > >  
> > > It is empowering when you have people who support
> you
> > > and it becomes an added obstacle when you
> don't. 
> > It is
> > > most helpful if you can get people to believe
> you, if
> > you
> > > can.  Give them as much computer info as you
> can
> > too,
> > > Sveta--show them the research and magazine
> articles. 
> > Share
> > > with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its
> > citizens
> > > regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had
> good
> > info
> > > here in the past year to share with others. 
> Don't
> > give
> > > reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a
> time.
> > >  
> > > I wish you the best,
> > > Diane
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     eSens-fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     [hidden email]
>
>
>

>
> Hi, Svetaswan,
>  
> I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problemsyou mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more Orwellian.  ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in some public opinion. 
>  
> Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea how many of us have noticeableautonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
>  
> You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor.  Monitoryourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most people will agree that you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up,yes; that might be a sign you are upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf exposures.  (I also have temperatureand blood sugar changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer,but it will likely be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you find
> theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
>  
> When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When I bring my bp back up (with supplements), the exhaustion also clears up.  You will also see thatyour body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this often.  So you will have to take readings over a long period of time tounderstand how your body works.  I often can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can no longer deal with it and stresses out.
>  
> It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too, Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info here in the past year to share withothers.  Don't give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
>  
> I wish you the best,
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: svetaswan <svetaswan@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;) Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the masses.
>
> I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effectiveway - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
>
> But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation with my Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of monthsago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If thisever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July before it's done.)
>
> So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the dangersof this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe, "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress" is doing.
>
> As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I don'twork)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone lines tothe same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via phone in thecase of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
>
> As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which is in their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue ofemf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> I wish you the best,
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: svetaswan <svetaswan@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;)

>
>
>
> Thanks for the response and for the great suggestions Diane - I'll take all of this into consideration. Unfortunately I cannot answer your posts asthoroughly/completely as I'd like to - because I continue to have debilitatingly low mental energy.
>
> You seem to know a lot about human biology and the effects of emfs upon that biology, etc.. Do you happen to know of any link between emfs and anemia? I've noticed that my anemia has worsened at a seemingly-accelerated rate over the past year or two - and I wonder if my body's increased reactionto certain emfs has contributed to this. A couple of years ago - I wasn't"officially" anemic - my hemoglobin, hematocrit, etc. - were technically in the "normal" range. I was however "warned" by those who go by the "alternative health" credo that I was in the "pre-anemia" stage or that I may be functionally anemic, anyway - because my ferritin was pretty low (it was 12or 13 ng/mL at the time - the typical range is something like 10 - 291 ng/mL. It is recommended by some that your ferritin be at least 40.). Well, when I had bloodwork about a year ago - my red blood cell count, hemoglobin, hematocrit levels were below normal, and my ferritin had "plummeted" to about 6. (It seems that in 2006, 2007, and 2008 - the levels of these values held relatively steady.) I haven't had any recent (2010) bloodwork - butgoing by my symptoms, I suspect my anemia has gotten worse - or at least hasn't improved.
>
> My anemia could have a straightfoward explanation - I've been dealing with a problem that could definitely cause/contribute to anemia in an obvious way. Then again, I was dealing with this same problem in 2007 and 2008 - and my bloodwork stayed pretty consistent during those years. So this has really made me wonder if something else may be contributing to my anemia. Andrew Cutler claims that, when someone is mercury toxic - ferritin/iron levels can plummet because it's the body's way of reducing oxidative stress (excess iron can cause oxidative stress - and when the body is mercury toxic,even "normal" levels of iron can act as a "synergistic toxin" with mercury. So the body loses what it can - the iron.). So I'm wondering if electromagnetic radiation could also cause the body to "dump" iron - for similar reasons (free radicals, oxidative stress, etc.).
>
> During two different visits to the Apple Store, I noticed something "interesting". At a certain point - I developed a sudden case of extreme fatigue. It's hard to describe the feeling...my lower body became cramped/weak, I felt sort-of "dizzy" and/or "lightheaded"....it was so bad that I felt the need to leave the store and take a rest on a nearby bench in the mall. During the second episode, I had a *really* hard time making it to the bench- which was only about 15 or 20 feet from the store entrance. I had to stop and grip a rail to rest/steady myself, which made me afraid that I was going to faint or collapse from the fatigue. My legs felt "gone". I thought it was my anemia - and I wondered why it decided to "act up" right when Iwas standing in front of the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Both times, it happened when I was in front of a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. It *could* have happened while I was standing in front of, say, the Mac Mini, but it didn't. I wondered if it was something about the laptops that caused this reaction.  
>
> But you mention the blood-pressure reaction...my reaction in front of thelaptops seems like it could have been the sudden drop of blood pressure that you describe?  
>
> Btw, I remember emailing someone on eSens while I was in the middle (or at the end) of one of my "spells" inside the Apple Store - I believe it was Stephen! :)
>
> ~Svetaswan
>
> P.S. - in 2009, on the same bloodwork that revealed my anemia - I also noticed that my fasting glucose level was on the high side....higher than I thought it should be. It made me worry that I was on my way to developing diabetes. I've since found out (reinforced by your message) about how bad emfs, or "dirty electricity", could raise blood sugar levels.
>
> --- In [hidden email], Evie <evie15422@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Svetaswan,
> >  
> > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problems you mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the "Normals".  It makes it sound so much moreOrwellian.  ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in some public opinion. 
> >  
> > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to monitoryourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it as proof you are imagining thingsif you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
> >  
> > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you,and then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rategoes up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most people will agree that you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign you are upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If youfind
> > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor forANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
> >  
> > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My normal restingbp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp tankingis what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When I bring my bp back up(with supplements), the exhaustion also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this often.  So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to understand how your body works.  I often can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can no longer dealwith it and stresses out.
> >  
> > It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too, Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share withthem the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info here in the past year to share withothers.  Don't give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> >  
> > I wish you the best,
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: svetaswan <svetaswan@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;) Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the masses.
> >
> > I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effective way - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
> >
> > But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation withmy Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of months ago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If this ever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July before it's done.)
> >
> > So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may beahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the dangers of this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive thanthe U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe, "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress" is doing.
> >
> > As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I don't work)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone lines to the same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via phone in the case of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
> >
> > As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in 2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which is in their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue of emf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
> >
> >
> >
> >      
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

>
> Hi Svetaswan,
>
>  
>
> Sounds like you may have adrenal issues. If you have these you will
> encounter low blood pressure issues, and experience dizziness, and get
> light-heads. I had this problem last year, which is why I became
> electrosensitive. Now my adrenals are gradually improving strength, I'm
> virtually free of issues around EMF.  
>
>  
>
> May I recommend the following products and ideas:
>
>  
>
> Deer Antler from Surthrival
>
> Colostrum from Suthrival
>
>  
>
> http://www. <http://www.surthrival.com> surthrival.com
>
>  
>
>  
>
> The deer antler will also help significantly in your anemia problem.
> Anemia is not solely about iron deficiency. It can also be about shortage
> of thinks such as manganese which helps your body produce iron or metabolise
> iron supplements that you take.  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Kidney and Adrenal Builder from Vitality Herbs and Clay.com
>
>  
>
> http://www.vitalityherbsandclay.com/herbs-and-herbal-formulas/view-all-produ
> cts.html
>
>  
>
> I'd also suggest their Friendly Flora too. This helps provide good bacteria
> in your body. It's possible that you may have viruses/bacteria in your
> kidneys/adrenals that are undermining you. If you have any heavy metal
> issues in your body, their clay products are ideal for dealing with these.
>
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Both websites have great audios online, which will help you understand why
> the products are good for you. I've had personal experience of using all
> of them, so I can say they do definitely work/  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> It's also crucial to get a better quality of sleep so to re-charge yourself.
>
>
>  
>
> I can provide some more ideas if this helps
>
>  
>
> Regards
>
> David
>
>  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> svetaswan
> Sent: 18 May 2010 05:27
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response and for the great suggestions Diane - I'll take all
> of this into consideration. Unfortunately I cannot answer your posts as
> thoroughly/completely as I'd like to - because I continue to have
> debilitatingly low mental energy.
>
> You seem to know a lot about human biology and the effects of emfs upon that
> biology, etc.. Do you happen to know of any link between emfs and anemia?
> I've noticed that my anemia has worsened at a seemingly-accelerated rate
> over the past year or two - and I wonder if my body's increased reaction to
> certain emfs has contributed to this. A couple of years ago - I wasn't
> "officially" anemic - my hemoglobin, hematocrit, etc. - were technically in
> the "normal" range. I was however "warned" by those who go by the
> "alternative health" credo that I was in the "pre-anemia" stage or that I
> may be functionally anemic, anyway - because my ferritin was pretty low (it
> was 12 or 13 ng/mL at the time - the typical range is something like 10 -
> 291 ng/mL. It is recommended by some that your ferritin be at least 40.).
> Well, when I had bloodwork about a year ago - my red blood cell count,
> hemoglobin, hematocrit levels were below normal, and my ferritin had
> "plummeted" to about 6. (It seems that in 2006, 2007, and 2008 - the levels
> of these values held relatively steady.) I haven't had any recent (2010)
> bloodwork - but going by my symptoms, I suspect my anemia has gotten worse -
> or at least hasn't improved.
>
> My anemia could have a straightfoward explanation - I've been dealing with a
> problem that could definitely cause/contribute to anemia in an obvious way.
> Then again, I was dealing with this same problem in 2007 and 2008 - and my
> bloodwork stayed pretty consistent during those years. So this has really
> made me wonder if something else may be contributing to my anemia. Andrew
> Cutler claims that, when someone is mercury toxic - ferritin/iron levels can
> plummet because it's the body's way of reducing oxidative stress (excess
> iron can cause oxidative stress - and when the body is mercury toxic, even
> "normal" levels of iron can act as a "synergistic toxin" with mercury. So
> the body loses what it can - the iron.). So I'm wondering if electromagnetic
> radiation could also cause the body to "dump" iron - for similar reasons
> (free radicals, oxidative stress, etc.).
>
> During two different visits to the Apple Store, I noticed something
> "interesting". At a certain point - I developed a sudden case of extreme
> fatigue. It's hard to describe the feeling...my lower body became
> cramped/weak, I felt sort-of "dizzy" and/or "lightheaded"....it was so bad
> that I felt the need to leave the store and take a rest on a nearby benchin
> the mall. During the second episode, I had a *really* hard time making itto
> the bench - which was only about 15 or 20 feet from the store entrance. I
> had to stop and grip a rail to rest/steady myself, which made me afraid that
> I was going to faint or collapse from the fatigue. My legs felt "gone". I
> thought it was my anemia - and I wondered why it decided to "act up" right
> when I was standing in front of the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Both times,
> it happened when I was in front of a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. It *could*
> have happened while I was standing in front of, say, the Mac Mini, but it
> didn't. I wondered if it was something about the laptops that caused this
> reaction.
>
> But you mention the blood-pressure reaction...my reaction in front of the
> laptops seems like it could have been the sudden drop of blood pressure that
> you describe?
>
> Btw, I remember emailing someone on eSens while I was in the middle (or at
> the end) of one of my "spells" inside the Apple Store - I believe it was
> Stephen! :)
>
> ~Svetaswan
>
> P.S. - in 2009, on the same bloodwork that revealed my anemia - I also
> noticed that my fasting glucose level was on the high side....higher thanI
> thought it should be. It made me worry that I was on my way to developing
> diabetes. I've since found out (reinforced by your message) about how bad
> emfs, or "dirty electricity", could raise blood sugar levels.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Evie
> <evie15422@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Svetaswan,
> >  
> > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problems
> you mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta. (Hugs) (Lol I
> like to call them the "Normals". It makes it sound so much more Orwellian.
> ;) ) But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in
> some public opinion.  
> >  
> > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that
> if you do for "proof". I have no idea how many of us have noticeable
> autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as
> mentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS. It is so easy to monitor
> yourself to find out. I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho,
> until you work it out. They may see it as proof you are imagining thingsif
> you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
> >  
> > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor. Monitor
> yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and
> then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs. My heart rate goesup
> with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs. Most people will agree that
> you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might
> be a sign you are upset, etc.... The heart rate is the same--it means
> little to people if that changes, usually. But you might be able to find
> temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also
> that accompany bad emf exposures. (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most
> reliable for me.) If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely
> you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely
> be a less profound finding than tanking bp. If you find
> > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor for ANS
> disorder testing. (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics
> and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
> >  
> > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly. My normal resting bp
> is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85. When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go
> down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> exposures. With experience, I have found that this bp tanking is what
> causes the exhaustion which follows. When I bring my bp back up (with
> supplements), the exhaustion also clears up. You will also see that your
> body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this
> often. So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to
> understand how your body works. I often can get the lowest reading taking
> bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will
> try and succeed in bringing my bp back up. This is why long term exposures
> are more meaningful. After a while, my body can no longer deal with it and
> stresses out.
> >  
> > It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an
> added obstacle when you don't. It is most helpful if you can get people to
> believe you, if you can. Give them as much computer info as you can too,
> Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles. Share with them the
> warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.
> We have had good info here in the past year to share with others. Don't
> give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> >  
> > I wish you the best,
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: svetaswan <svetaswan@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> > To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;)
> Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these
> so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the
> technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually
> concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other
> "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the
> masses.
> >
> > I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effective
> way - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this
> difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to
> articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
> >
> > But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation withmy
> Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still
> seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong
> resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of months
> ago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If this
> ever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July
> before it's done.)
> >
> > So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were
> "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally
> validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may
> be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the
> dangers of this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive
> than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe,
> "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid
> that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully
> investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress"
> is doing.
> >
> > As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My
> sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I
> don't work)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my
> household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn
> off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that
> provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone
> lines to the same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering
> off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get
> relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via
> phone in the case of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
> >
> > As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in
> 2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which isin
> their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT
> technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've
> never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my
> computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue
> of emf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any
> symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and
> said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean
> that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Hi Svetaswan,
>
> You mention dizzy and light-headed,
>
> I'm copy/pasting from "Your Body's Many Cries For Water" (Bestseller for 20 years by Dr Batmanghelidj, page 144):
>
> ...
> Also, dizzyness and feeling faint may be indicators of salt and water shortage in the body. If such occasions arise, you should also begin to increase your vitamin and mineral intake, particularly if you are dieting to loseweight and are not including vegetables and fruits with water-soluble vitamin and mineral content.
> ...
>
> He advises to drink 8 glasses of water each day and half a teaspoon (3 grams) of salt in your diet/day.
>
> About the blood sugar levels, maybe you should go and see a specialist onthis. I would check it a couple of times each day and write down what en when you've eaten... If you have problems with your pancreas, first you havehypoglykemia (too low in the morning), then hyperinsulinemia (intolerant to insulin, I seem to have this now, so I have to watch out too) and then diabetes (too high).
>
> I think if you adjust your diet you can have a big impact on this. I don't know EMF if has a big influence on blood sugar levels (well EMF have an influence on everything I think!), but try if it gets better if you eat onlylow-carbs (no grains and no sweeteners).
>
> For me it was very difficult to eat not so much sweetened yoghurt, biscuits,... It felt more of a physical necessity (which seems common with those having hyperinsulinemia). Now I'm on Calcium each day, my energy level is much better and the need for unhealthy stuff is kinda gone. I seem to have the same thing as Diane is buzzing about ;-) namely "tight junction permeability". I had times that when my es was exceptionally high I just had to take some dairy/Calcium and it immediately got better. But I'm allergic to caseine, so I'm skipping on dairy now. My eye sight was also very bad the lastyear and is much better when I take Calcium. I don't know if you have tj perm. but I just wanted to mention this, because I think other people must have the same thing without knowing so. It sees very common with those that are intolerable to gluten (or with a lot of intolerances/allergies).
>
> greets,
> Stephen.
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "svetaswan" <svetaswan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the response and for the great suggestions Diane - I'll takeall of this into consideration. Unfortunately I cannot answer your posts as thoroughly/completely as I'd like to - because I continue to have debilitatingly low mental energy.
> >
> > You seem to know a lot about human biology and the effects of emfs uponthat biology, etc.. Do you happen to know of any link between emfs and anemia? I've noticed that my anemia has worsened at a seemingly-accelerated rate over the past year or two - and I wonder if my body's increased reaction to certain emfs has contributed to this. A couple of years ago - I wasn't "officially" anemic - my hemoglobin, hematocrit, etc. - were technicallyin the "normal" range. I was however "warned" by those who go by the "alternative health" credo that I was in the "pre-anemia" stage or that I may be functionally anemic, anyway - because my ferritin was pretty low (it was 12 or 13 ng/mL at the time - the typical range is something like 10 - 291 ng/mL. It is recommended by some that your ferritin be at least 40.). Well, when I had bloodwork about a year ago - my red blood cell count, hemoglobin, hematocrit levels were below normal, and my ferritin had "plummeted" toabout 6. (It seems that in 2006, 2007, and 2008 - the levels of these values held relatively steady.) I haven't had any recent (2010) bloodwork - but going by my symptoms, I suspect my anemia has gotten worse - or at leasthasn't improved.
> >
> > My anemia could have a straightfoward explanation - I've been dealing with a problem that could definitely cause/contribute to anemia in an obvious way. Then again, I was dealing with this same problem in 2007 and 2008 -and my bloodwork stayed pretty consistent during those years. So this hasreally made me wonder if something else may be contributing to my anemia. Andrew Cutler claims that, when someone is mercury toxic - ferritin/iron levels can plummet because it's the body's way of reducing oxidative stress (excess iron can cause oxidative stress - and when the body is mercury toxic, even "normal" levels of iron can act as a "synergistic toxin" with mercury. So the body loses what it can - the iron.). So I'm wondering if electromagnetic radiation could also cause the body to "dump" iron - for similarreasons (free radicals, oxidative stress, etc.).
> >
> > During two different visits to the Apple Store, I noticed something "interesting". At a certain point - I developed a sudden case of extreme fatigue. It's hard to describe the feeling...my lower body became cramped/weak, I felt sort-of "dizzy" and/or "lightheaded"....it was so bad that I felt the need to leave the store and take a rest on a nearby bench in the mall. During the second episode, I had a *really* hard time making it to the bench - which was only about 15 or 20 feet from the store entrance. I had to stop and grip a rail to rest/steady myself, which made me afraid that I wasgoing to faint or collapse from the fatigue. My legs felt "gone". I thought it was my anemia - and I wondered why it decided to "act up" right whenI was standing in front of the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Both times, it happened when I was in front of a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. It *could* have happened while I was standing in front of, say, the Mac Mini, but it didn't. I wondered if it was something about the laptops that caused this reaction.  
> >
> > But you mention the blood-pressure reaction...my reaction in front of the laptops seems like it could have been the sudden drop of blood pressure that you describe?  
> >
> > Btw, I remember emailing someone on eSens while I was in the middle (orat the end) of one of my "spells" inside the Apple Store - I believe it was Stephen! :)
> >
> > ~Svetaswan
> >
> > P.S. - in 2009, on the same bloodwork that revealed my anemia - I also noticed that my fasting glucose level was on the high side....higher than Ithought it should be. It made me worry that I was on my way to developing diabetes. I've since found out (reinforced by your message) about how bad emfs, or "dirty electricity", could raise blood sugar levels.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], Evie <evie15422@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Svetaswan,
> > >  
> > > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problems you mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta.  (Hugs) (Lol  I like to call them the "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more Orwellian.  ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in some public opinion. 
> > >  
> > > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and usethat if you do for "proof".  I have no idea how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as mentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
> > >  
> > > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most people will agree that you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goesup, yes; that might be a sign you are upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you find
> > > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
> > >  
> > > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When I feel ill from bad emfs,it can go down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than thatwith longer exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When I bring my bp back up (with supplements), the exhaustion also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can dothis often.  So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to understand how your body works.  I often can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can no longer deal with it and stresses out.
> > >  
> > > It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too, Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info here in the past year to share with others.  Don't give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> > >  
> > > I wish you the best,
> > > Diane
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: svetaswan <svetaswan@>
> > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephen,
> > >
> > > Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;) Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the masses.
> > >
> > > I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effective way - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
> > >
> > > But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation with my Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of months ago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If this ever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July before it's done.)
> > >
> > > So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were"ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the dangers of this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe, "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress" is doing.
> > >
> > > As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I don't work)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone lines to the same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via phone inthe case of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
> > >
> > > As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in 2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, whichis in their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECTtechnology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I'venever noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue of emf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed anysymptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed andsaid "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >      
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. It's possible that dehydration could have played a role in my reaction inside of the Apple Store - but then again, I visited other stores (i.e. stood in an aisle full of LCD TVs for a long while) and didn't have the same reaction. But I'm afraid that my computer addiction and emf "crisis" has had the side effect of me neglecting my dietary values - I haven't been eating and hydrating myself as I should. Maybe I'll get back on track when I finally decide on a "better" computer (provided it'sthe right choice).  
>
> Yeah - and it's been said that many people with adrenal fatigue need moresalt...but in general, I haven't found that to be the case with me. I've tried to listen to my body...and I don't think my body is telling me that Ineed more salt/sodium. In fact, when I tried taking the sodium ascorbate form of Vitamin C (which is highly recommended by some) - there were signs that my body didn't like it. My body seems to respond much more positivelyto mixed mineral ascorbates, magnesium ascorbate, & calcium ascorbate. (I've found pure ascorbic acid to be too "acidic" for me.)
>
> Before I got sidetracked by my emf crisis - I had been slowly trying to investigate ways to determine if I have a problem with gluten intolerance, and if a gluten-free, and/or casein-free diet would benefit me. Some "experts" even recommend that you take gluten-free/casein-free a step farther - and follow a "Specific Carbohydrate Diet". Following these type of exclusion diets would be *major* work and involve a lot of sacrifice - so it would be nice if there was a test or something in which I could find out definitively if I would benefit from one (or more) of these exclusion diets.
>
> I don't know anything about "tight junction permeability" - I guess that's something else I'll have to look into.
>
> ~Svetaswan
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "stephen_vandevijvere" <stephen_vandevijvere@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Svetaswan,
> >
> > You mention dizzy and light-headed,
> >
> > I'm copy/pasting from "Your Body's Many Cries For Water" (Bestseller for 20 years by Dr Batmanghelidj, page 144):
> >
> > ...
> > Also, dizzyness and feeling faint may be indicators of salt and water shortage in the body. If such occasions arise, you should also begin to increase your vitamin and mineral intake, particularly if you are dieting to lose weight and are not including vegetables and fruits with water-soluble vitamin and mineral content.
> > ...
> >
> > He advises to drink 8 glasses of water each day and half a teaspoon (3 grams) of salt in your diet/day.
> >
> > About the blood sugar levels, maybe you should go and see a specialist on this. I would check it a couple of times each day and write down what enwhen you've eaten... If you have problems with your pancreas, first you have hypoglykemia (too low in the morning), then hyperinsulinemia (intolerantto insulin, I seem to have this now, so I have to watch out too) and then diabetes (too high).
> >
> > I think if you adjust your diet you can have a big impact on this. I don't know EMF if has a big influence on blood sugar levels (well EMF have aninfluence on everything I think!), but try if it gets better if you eat only low-carbs (no grains and no sweeteners).
> >
> > For me it was very difficult to eat not so much sweetened yoghurt, biscuits,... It felt more of a physical necessity (which seems common with those having hyperinsulinemia). Now I'm on Calcium each day, my energy level ismuch better and the need for unhealthy stuff is kinda gone. I seem to havethe same thing as Diane is buzzing about ;-) namely "tight junction permeability". I had times that when my es was exceptionally high I just had to take some dairy/Calcium and it immediately got better. But I'm allergic to caseine, so I'm skipping on dairy now. My eye sight was also very bad the last year and is much better when I take Calcium. I don't know if you have tjperm. but I just wanted to mention this, because I think other people musthave the same thing without knowing so. It sees very common with those that are intolerable to gluten (or with a lot of intolerances/allergies).
> >
> > greets,
> > Stephen.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "svetaswan" <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the response and for the great suggestions Diane - I'll take all of this into consideration. Unfortunately I cannot answer your posts as thoroughly/completely as I'd like to - because I continue to have debilitatingly low mental energy.
> > >
> > > You seem to know a lot about human biology and the effects of emfs upon that biology, etc.. Do you happen to know of any link between emfs and anemia? I've noticed that my anemia has worsened at a seemingly-accelerated rate over the past year or two - and I wonder if my body's increased reaction to certain emfs has contributed to this. A couple of years ago - I wasn't "officially" anemic - my hemoglobin, hematocrit, etc. - were technically in the "normal" range. I was however "warned" by those who go by the "alternative health" credo that I was in the "pre-anemia" stage or that I maybe functionally anemic, anyway - because my ferritin was pretty low (it was 12 or 13 ng/mL at the time - the typical range is something like 10 - 291ng/mL. It is recommended by some that your ferritin be at least 40.). Well, when I had bloodwork about a year ago - my red blood cell count, hemoglobin, hematocrit levels were below normal, and my ferritin had "plummeted" to about 6. (It seems that in 2006, 2007, and 2008 - the levels of these values held relatively steady.) I haven't had any recent (2010) bloodwork -but going by my symptoms, I suspect my anemia has gotten worse - or at least hasn't improved.
> > >
> > > My anemia could have a straightfoward explanation - I've been dealingwith a problem that could definitely cause/contribute to anemia in an obvious way. Then again, I was dealing with this same problem in 2007 and 2008- and my bloodwork stayed pretty consistent during those years. So this has really made me wonder if something else may be contributing to my anemia. Andrew Cutler claims that, when someone is mercury toxic - ferritin/ironlevels can plummet because it's the body's way of reducing oxidative stress (excess iron can cause oxidative stress - and when the body is mercury toxic, even "normal" levels of iron can act as a "synergistic toxin" with mercury. So the body loses what it can - the iron.). So I'm wondering if electromagnetic radiation could also cause the body to "dump" iron - for similar reasons (free radicals, oxidative stress, etc.).
> > >
> > > During two different visits to the Apple Store, I noticed something "interesting". At a certain point - I developed a sudden case of extreme fatigue. It's hard to describe the feeling...my lower body became cramped/weak, I felt sort-of "dizzy" and/or "lightheaded"....it was so bad that I felt the need to leave the store and take a rest on a nearby bench in the mall. During the second episode, I had a *really* hard time making it to the bench - which was only about 15 or 20 feet from the store entrance. I had to stop and grip a rail to rest/steady myself, which made me afraid that I was going to faint or collapse from the fatigue. My legs felt "gone". I thought it was my anemia - and I wondered why it decided to "act up" right when I was standing in front of the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Both times, it happened when I was in front of a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. It *could* have happened while I was standing in front of, say, the Mac Mini, but it didn't. I wondered if it was something about the laptops that caused this reaction.  
> > >
> > > But you mention the blood-pressure reaction...my reaction in front ofthe laptops seems like it could have been the sudden drop of blood pressure that you describe?  
> > >
> > > Btw, I remember emailing someone on eSens while I was in the middle (or at the end) of one of my "spells" inside the Apple Store - I believe it was Stephen! :)
> > >
> > > ~Svetaswan
> > >
> > > P.S. - in 2009, on the same bloodwork that revealed my anemia - I also noticed that my fasting glucose level was on the high side....higher thanI thought it should be. It made me worry that I was on my way to developing diabetes. I've since found out (reinforced by your message) about how bademfs, or "dirty electricity", could raise blood sugar levels.
> > >
> > > --- In [hidden email], Evie <evie15422@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi, Svetaswan,
> > > >  
> > > > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problems you mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the "Normals".  It makes it sound so muchmore Orwellian.  ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn inthe past year or two in some public opinion. 
> > > >  
> > > > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (asmentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
> > > >  
> > > > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most peoplewill agree that you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign you are upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respirationchanges, etc, also that accompany bad emf exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  Ifyou find
> > > > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctorfor ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
> > > >  
> > > > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer exposures.  With experience, I have found that this bp tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When I bring my bp back up (with supplements), the exhaustion also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this often.  So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to understand how your body works.  I often can get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term exposures are more meaningful.  After a while, my body can no longer deal with it and stresses out.
> > > >  
> > > > It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is most helpful if you can get people to believe you, if you can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too, Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info here in the past year to share with others.  Don't give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> > > >  
> > > > I wish you the best,
> > > > Diane
> > > >
> > > > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: svetaswan <svetaswan@>
> > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Stephen,
> > > >
> > > > Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;) Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the masses.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effective way - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed tothis difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people toarticulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
> > > >
> > > > But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation with my Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of months ago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If this ever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July before it's done.)
> > > >
> > > > So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finallyvalidate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the dangers of this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe, "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress" isdoing.
> > > >
> > > > As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. Mysleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so Idon't work)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone lines to the same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get relieffrom WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via phone in the case of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
> > > >
> > > > As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in 2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which is in their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not beforemy computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue of emf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> Hi, Svetaswan,
>  
> I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problemsyou mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta.  (Hugs)  (Lol  I like to call them the "Normals".  It makes it sound so much more Orwellian.  ;)  )   But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in some public opinion. 
>  
> Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that if you do for "proof".  I have no idea how many of us have noticeable autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (asmentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS.  It is so easy to monitor yourself to find out.  I would not tell anyone what you aredoing, tho, until you work it out.  They may see it as proof you are imagining things if you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
>  
> You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor.  Monitor yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs.  My heart rate goes up with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs.  Most people will agree that you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might be a sign you are upset, etc....  The heart rate is the same--it means little to people if that changes, usually.  But you might be able to find temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also that accompany bad emf exposures.  (I also have temperature and blood sugar changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most reliable for me.)  If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely be a less profound finding than tanking bp.  If you find
> theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor for ANS disorder testing.  (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
>  
> When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly.  My normal resting bp is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85.  When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer exposures.  With experience, I have found thatthis bp tanking is what causes the exhaustion which follows.  When I bring my bp back up (with supplements), the exhaustion also clears up.  You will also see that your body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and tosome degree it can do this often.  So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to understand how your body works.  I oftencan get the lowest reading taking bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will try and succeed in bringing my bp back up.  This is why long term exposures are more meaningful.  After awhile, my body can no longer deal with it and stresses out.
>  
> It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an added obstacle when you don't.  It is most helpful if you canget people to believe you, if you can.  Give them as much computer info as you can too, Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles.  Share with them the warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regardinggreen (CFL) bulbs, etc.  We have had good info here in the past year to share with others.  Don't give reams of info--just one or2 good articles at a time.
>  
> I wish you the best,
> Diane
>
> --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: svetaswan <svetaswan@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;) Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the masses.
>
> I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effectiveway - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
>
> But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation with my Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of monthsago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If thisever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July before it's done.)
>
> So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the dangersof this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe, "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress" is doing.
>
> As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I don'twork)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone lines tothe same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via phone in thecase of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
>
> As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which is in their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue ofemf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Hi Svetaswan,
>
>
>
> Sounds like you may have adrenal issues. If you have these you will
> encounter low blood pressure issues, and experience dizziness, and get
> light-heads. I had this problem last year, which is why I became
> electrosensitive. Now my adrenals are gradually improving strength, I'm
> virtually free of issues around EMF.
>
>
>
> May I recommend the following products and ideas:
>
>
>
> Deer Antler from Surthrival
>
> Colostrum from Suthrival
>
>
>
> http://www. <http://www.surthrival.com> surthrival.com
>
>
>
>
>
> The deer antler will also help significantly in your anemia problem.
> Anemia is not solely about iron deficiency. It can also be about shortage
> of thinks such as manganese which helps your body produce iron or metabolise
> iron supplements that you take.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kidney and Adrenal Builder from Vitality Herbs and Clay.com
>
>
>
> http://www.vitalityherbsandclay.com/herbs-and-herbal-formulas/view-all-produ
> cts.html
>
>
>
> I'd also suggest their Friendly Flora too. This helps provide good bacteria
> in your body. It's possible that you may have viruses/bacteria in your
> kidneys/adrenals that are undermining you. If you have any heavy metal
> issues in your body, their clay products are ideal for dealing with these.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Both websites have great audios online, which will help you understand why
> the products are good for you. I've had personal experience of using all
> of them, so I can say they do definitely work/
>
>
>
>
>
> It's also crucial to get a better quality of sleep so to re-charge yourself.
>
>
>
>
> I can provide some more ideas if this helps
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> David
>
>
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> svetaswan
> Sent: 18 May 2010 05:27
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response and for the great suggestions Diane - I'll take all
> of this into consideration. Unfortunately I cannot answer your posts as
> thoroughly/completely as I'd like to - because I continue to have
> debilitatingly low mental energy.
>
> You seem to know a lot about human biology and the effects of emfs upon that
> biology, etc.. Do you happen to know of any link between emfs and anemia?
> I've noticed that my anemia has worsened at a seemingly-accelerated rate
> over the past year or two - and I wonder if my body's increased reaction to
> certain emfs has contributed to this. A couple of years ago - I wasn't
> "officially" anemic - my hemoglobin, hematocrit, etc. - were technically in
> the "normal" range. I was however "warned" by those who go by the
> "alternative health" credo that I was in the "pre-anemia" stage or that I
> may be functionally anemic, anyway - because my ferritin was pretty low (it
> was 12 or 13 ng/mL at the time - the typical range is something like 10 -
> 291 ng/mL. It is recommended by some that your ferritin be at least 40.).
> Well, when I had bloodwork about a year ago - my red blood cell count,
> hemoglobin, hematocrit levels were below normal, and my ferritin had
> "plummeted" to about 6. (It seems that in 2006, 2007, and 2008 - the levels
> of these values held relatively steady.) I haven't had any recent (2010)
> bloodwork - but going by my symptoms, I suspect my anemia has gotten worse -
> or at least hasn't improved.
>
> My anemia could have a straightfoward explanation - I've been dealing with a
> problem that could definitely cause/contribute to anemia in an obvious way.
> Then again, I was dealing with this same problem in 2007 and 2008 - and my
> bloodwork stayed pretty consistent during those years. So this has really
> made me wonder if something else may be contributing to my anemia. Andrew
> Cutler claims that, when someone is mercury toxic - ferritin/iron levels can
> plummet because it's the body's way of reducing oxidative stress (excess
> iron can cause oxidative stress - and when the body is mercury toxic, even
> "normal" levels of iron can act as a "synergistic toxin" with mercury. So
> the body loses what it can - the iron.). So I'm wondering if electromagnetic
> radiation could also cause the body to "dump" iron - for similar reasons
> (free radicals, oxidative stress, etc.).
>
> During two different visits to the Apple Store, I noticed something
> "interesting". At a certain point - I developed a sudden case of extreme
> fatigue. It's hard to describe the feeling...my lower body became
> cramped/weak, I felt sort-of "dizzy" and/or "lightheaded"....it was so bad
> that I felt the need to leave the store and take a rest on a nearby benchin
> the mall. During the second episode, I had a *really* hard time making itto
> the bench - which was only about 15 or 20 feet from the store entrance. I
> had to stop and grip a rail to rest/steady myself, which made me afraid that
> I was going to faint or collapse from the fatigue. My legs felt "gone". I
> thought it was my anemia - and I wondered why it decided to "act up" right
> when I was standing in front of the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Both times,
> it happened when I was in front of a Macbook or a Macbook Pro. It *could*
> have happened while I was standing in front of, say, the Mac Mini, but it
> didn't. I wondered if it was something about the laptops that caused this
> reaction.
>
> But you mention the blood-pressure reaction...my reaction in front of the
> laptops seems like it could have been the sudden drop of blood pressure that
> you describe?
>
> Btw, I remember emailing someone on eSens while I was in the middle (or at
> the end) of one of my "spells" inside the Apple Store - I believe it was
> Stephen! :)
>
> ~Svetaswan
>
> P.S. - in 2009, on the same bloodwork that revealed my anemia - I also
> noticed that my fasting glucose level was on the high side....higher thanI
> thought it should be. It made me worry that I was on my way to developing
> diabetes. I've since found out (reinforced by your message) about how bad
> emfs, or "dirty electricity", could raise blood sugar levels.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Evie
> <evie15422@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Svetaswan,
> >
> > I suspect that we with ES (and MCS, CFS, FMS....) all have these problems
> you mention with normal people; you are not alone, Sveta. (Hugs) (Lol I
> like to call them the "Normals". It makes it sound so much more Orwellian.
> ;) ) But I have been seeing a bit of a turn in the past year or two in
> some public opinion.
> >
> > Also, you should try to see if you have bp/heart rate changes and use that
> if you do for "proof". I have no idea how many of us have noticeable
> autonomic nervous system changes, but almost all of our symptoms (as
> mentioned by others here) can relate to the ANS. It is so easy to monitor
> yourself to find out. I would not tell anyone what you are doing, tho,
> until you work it out. They may see it as proof you are imagining things if
> you cannot elicit meaningful readings.
> >
> > You just buy a good quality blood pressure/heart rate monitor. Monitor
> yourself when you feel your best, then when you feel "normal" for you, and
> then again when you feel really stressed out by emfs. My heart rate goes up
> with bad emfs, and my bp tanks with bad emfs. Most people will agree that
> you can't psychologically control tanking bp--if it goes up, yes; that might
> be a sign you are upset, etc.... The heart rate is the same--it means
> little to people if that changes, usually. But you might be able to find
> temperature changes, blood sugar changes, respiration changes, etc, also
> that accompany bad emf exposures. (I also have temperature and blood sugar
> changes which show when I check them, but the bp is the easiest and most
> reliable for me.) If you experience chills after emf exposure, it is likely
> you can elicit temperature differences on a thermometer, but it will likely
> be a less profound finding than tanking bp. If you find
> > theae changes to be the case, however, you can also go to a doctor for ANS
> disorder testing. (But these docs do not yet recognise emfs from electrics
> and cell towers as causal to this disorder.)
> >
> > When I say my bp tanks, btw, I mean significantly. My normal resting bp
> is between 110 and 120/ 80 to 85. When I feel ill from bad emfs, it can go
> down to 60/40 in 20 mins and I have had even lower than that with longer
> exposures. With experience, I have found that this bp tanking is what
> causes the exhaustion which follows. When I bring my bp back up (with
> supplements), the exhaustion also clears up. You will also see that your
> body tries to right itself, bp-wise, and to some degree it can do this
> often. So you will have to take readings over a long period of time to
> understand how your body works. I often can get the lowest reading taking
> bp when I feel my worst, but if I wait even a couple minutes, my body will
> try and succeed in bringing my bp back up. This is why long term exposures
> are more meaningful. After a while, my body can no longer deal with it and
> stresses out.
> >
> > It is empowering when you have people who support you and it becomes an
> added obstacle when you don't. It is most helpful if you can get people to
> believe you, if you can. Give them as much computer info as you can too,
> Sveta--show them the research and magazine articles. Share with them the
> warning that Sweden (?) gave its citizens regarding green (CFL) bulbs, etc.
> We have had good info here in the past year to share with others. Don't
> give reams of info--just one or 2 good articles at a time.
> >
> > I wish you the best,
> > Diane
> >
> > --- On Mon, 5/10/10, svetaswan <svetaswan@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: svetaswan <svetaswan@>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Wifi on Mac Mini desktop - WiFi woes
> > To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Monday, May 10, 2010, 9:39 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > Well, my parents' "normalcy" certainly isn't doing me any good. ;)
> Sometimes "normal" is overrated - a lot of harm is being done by these
> so-called "normal" people sitting in board rooms making decisions about the
> technology that is supposedly "safe" for everyone (but what they're actually
> concerned about is what is more profitable to them). And there are other
> "normal" people in power making some evil, selfish decisions that harm the
> masses.
> >
> > I suppose I do have trouble verbalizing my symptoms in the most effective
> way - the frustrating thing about it is that e.s. has contributed to this
> difficulty. So e.s. itself makes it more difficult for some people to
> articulate their e.s.. It can be a real quagmire.
> >
> > But just today, I did receive a bit of hope - from my conversation withmy
> Dad, he seems to be more open to the idea of getting rid of WiFi. He still
> seems to think that it's "all in my head" - but I didn't receive the strong
> resistance to the idea of dismantling WiFi that I did a couple of months
> ago. We'll see where this goes - I hope it wasn't just idle talk. (If this
> ever gets done, it won't be done right away - it will be at least June/July
> before it's done.)
> >
> > So your parents have come around - I guess they now see that you were
> "ahead of your time". :) I guess it feels good to have the media finally
> validate what you've been feeling and knowing for years. I think Europe may
> be ahead of the U.S. when it comes to considering - and acting on - the
> dangers of this wireless technology. Then again, Europe is more progressive
> than the U.S. when it comes to many matters of public welfare (In Europe,
> "welfare" doesn't seem to be a bad word like it is over here.). I'm afraid
> that America is just too full of selfish, profit-mongering folks to fully
> investigate or admit to the harm that all of this "technological progress"
> is doing.
> >
> > As far as unplugging the WiFi at night - well, it's complicated. My
> sleep-wake cycle is really messed up and irregular (I'm on disability so I
> don't work)...often, I'm sleeping during the time when someone else in my
> household is awake (and using the computer). When I have been able to turn
> off WiFi, though - I've noticed a definite relief. Also, the company that
> provides our wireless internet got the *bright idea* to hook up the phone
> lines to the same device that sends out our wireless signal - so, powering
> off the WiFi router also means turning off our phone lines. So, to get
> relief from WiFi - it means risking someone not being able to reach us via
> phone in the case of an emergency. It's a really messed-up situation.
> >
> > As far as owning a DECT phone - well, I may be guilty as charged. Back in
> 2006, I bought my parents a cordless phone (with a base station, which isin
> their bedroom) for Christmas. I'm guessing that this phone uses DECT
> technology - it works too well for it not to be "dangerous", lol. But I've
> never noticed any symptoms from the cordless phone - at least not before my
> computer-induced e.s. got out of hand and I became more aware of the issue
> of emf. And when I asked my mom a couple of months ago if she noticed any
> symptoms from the base station being right beside her bed, she laughed and
> said "no". No apparent sleep difficulites. ..nothing. It still doesn't mean
> that we shouldn't get rid of it, though!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>