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Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro stress
 
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Hi Diane and all, In my opinion Geopathic Stress (GS) is not off-topic in this list, because is somehow that could make more acute e-sensitivities. This is short version of my e-sens/g-sens sufferer experience: In e-sens I have problems with CRT monitors, power lines, WiFI, Cell phone masts, cell phones, .. and maybe other that I dont'know. In g-sens:I know I had problems with underwater currents, hartman crossings and curry lines, and maybe others that I don't know. In 2003, my problems with underwater currents where in a place with also power lines which cause a magnetic field of 3mG (could reach 5mG in summer) and a bad wiring (without grounding) which caused to me a bio-voltage of 7V. I had strong headaches and hard anxiety, imposible to relax. I was lucky and found a doctor which was known for treating people with e-sensitives. this doctor told me that I have both geopathic stress and e-sensitivity. First of all I started putting a ground in the flat. And I had some improvements but I had also terrible headaches and I was also exhausted. In those moment I didn't suspect that the geopathic stress was in these place and I thought that the main cause was the magnetic field, because I was difficult to me to sleep and I had some symptoms related to magnetic fields exposition. I found a good dowser that detected the underwater current under our house. I moved to another room (with 2-2,5 mG). It was clearly for me the best improvement I've ever made. I was not so exhausted but many problems were still remaining. During this years at the same time that the previous history occurred I was living during some days per week in another city due to my job. There I checked with a RF detector that my flat was also exposed to mast radiation I had several cell phone masts in the 500m surroundings one at only 80m which I think that could have damaged me. In these place I had problems with two DECTs one of a flat mate and another from a neighbour. And I had also 2 DECTS irradiating in the office above mine. I am much better compared with 4 years before but I have also many problems with microwaves because it's difficult to avoid this radiation. I think that maybe I could have heavy metals and I suspect something called demyelination. I will be glad if someone in the group knows reliable method to detect this problems and could send/redirect to me/group interesting information about it? I think that underwater currents, CRT monitors, electric fields, and microwaves are the worst things for me. But the thing that annoys me more is the lack of knowledge about it from the people who should know it (doctors). > Just a question.... What do you mean by geopathic sensitive? I mean that in some places I react to energies coming from the ground (terrestrial radiation). > I mean how do you react and how do you know that is what is causing > the problem? I know that I react to it because the symptoms that I experience when I'm sleeping over underground streams: exhaustion. My doctor used kinesiology and bioresonace with mora therapy, and both systems detected that I have mainly energy from underground water that was causing me problems. It is suposed that I had been in a place over a underground stream during certain period of time. It was my bed (detected by a dowser or geobiologist). Some times he detected in me energy from a curry line. It come from my sofa (the dowser also detected curry lines in the house). My doctor estimates that over their 5000 patients nearly 50% of his patients have GS (obviously is a biased info taking into account that He is known for treating GS). > (Pennsylvania). I SEEM to be extremely bad around areas with large > iron ore deposits. I am guessing that perhaps magnetic frequencies > might be attracted to these areas???? Deposit minerals, faults, fractures, ley lines, radon gas, natural radioactivity,.. are supposed also to cause geopathic stress. I recently read about another type of terrestrial radiation called chimneys (discovered by Guy Tison) that have a dynamic behaviour and it seems to create harmful disturbances. I could also consider interesting this piece of information that I found on the web: "According to the German scientist and expert on geopathic stress, Dr Kohfink, there has been a huge increase in geopathic stress since the end of the Second World War. The reason for this , he says, is the Nuclear Weapons Testing programme, in particular the underground nuclear tests." This hypothesis is very interesting for me since I thought that only earthquakes,tectonic movements, volcanoes,.. could create new geopathic zones... According to the STANDARD OF BAUBIOLOGIE METHODS OF TESTING Terrestrial Radiation is one of the parameters that baubiologists take into account. (SBM 2003 US TH.doc in the Files section) I put two links that contain information about the following topics. - How can I tell whether I am affected by Geopathic Stress? - If geopathic stress is natural why is it dangerous and why have we not become immune to it? - How common is geopathic stress? - Can Geopathic stress be detected by machines? http://megadisc.com.au/index_files/geopathic1.htm http://www.wholisticresearch.com/info/artshow.php3?artid=211 This link also interesting for its point of view relating geopathic stress and earth acupuncture. http://www.alexstark.com/articles/geopathicstress.html Although maybe is not understandable for many of us because this presentation is in catalan (romanic language with similarities with spanish and french) I think that is interesting the charts that show the energies in the place where persons slept and had long exposures to earth radiations and its diagnosis. Most of them slept over underwater streams + curry lines and mostly developed problems in the place of its body with maxidum earth/electromagnetic radiation. http://www.geonatura.org/Biocultura.ppt Regards Daniel |
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In reply to this post by danielferres
Daniel, you highlight the difficulties with the whole idea of
provocation tests, because there are many people who do not feel well ANYWHERE and, furthermore, have no idea what is triggering their symptoms, and whether it is internal or external. I think most ppl who want to do provocation tests on us probably aren't terribly sympathetic to our condition, and should be ignored! At the end of the day, its about healing isn't it? Finding the things that work. Finding the things that ES persons have in common in terms of what they consider to be a benign environment. I would be happy with returning to pre-1990 levels of man-made high frequency radiation. I would have to be careful with magnetic fields, but deal with the former and there would be plenty of options for avoiding high levels of the latter. --- In [hidden email], "danielferres" <danielferres@...> wrote: > > > Maybe you need also to avoid geopathic stressed zones. > Which also could affect your experiments. > > Sorry, I hadn't introduced myself yet. > My name is Daniel and I'm ElectroSensitive and GeopathicSensitive > from Spain. > > Regards, > Daniel > > > --- In [hidden email], "asurisuk" <asurisuk@> wrote: > > > > If you were living in a house in a remote, rural, virtually RF > > environment, like where I am, and you came home from a walk in the > > hills and someone had hidden a switched on DECT phone in your house > > while you were out. I GUARANTEE that you would know INSTANTLY that > > something major had changed. If you have ES like mine, that is. > > > > You can't perform provocation studies in areas sodden with EMFs. > > > |
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In reply to this post by BiBrun
Probable geopathic stress and a few overhead powerlines aside, the
area i am in is pretty good. It feels fairly pure, though it is a damp and dark place, make no mistake! Nevertheless there are many places where one can feel something approaching purity. And its interesting, because it enables me to focus in on what happens when one goes from a pure to an electrically polluted space. What is interesting is that magnetic fields are measured in power densities, and its interesting because THAT is PRECISELY how it feels, when i move from a very wild space back towards the powerlines near my house. It literally feels like the air gets MORE DENSE. Something is there that wasn't before. Yet I will be still 200 metres from the lines. 200 metres!! --- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote: > > I think you are right. What part of the world are you in? > > I think short of a scientific paper showing it, a video > on YouTube might go a long way towards gaining > some acceptance. Of course I realize it's not going to be > that easy to make such a video etc. > > I have had the experience of coming home, (even though > we are in an mildly urban setting) and feeling like something > was wrong, and asking my wife "are you sure you didn't turn > anything on?" Later when I went upstairs it turned out she > had forgotten that she had plugged in and left on a low voltage > planning to get rid of. > > I've also had other experiences that can't be explained by the placebo > effect. There's a huge intimidating cell tower on the highway that does not > bother > me. Now that I have a meter I see that at ground level it exposes > people much less than the building mounted cell phone transmitters > and shorter towers. On the other hand, driving past the Santa Fe Opera > my ears began to ring. I thought at first it meant something else could > cause it. Then I noticed there are funny looking things on some of the > lamp posts. With a meter I later confirmed those are transmitters (strong > ones too). > > Many times I have 'heard' a cell tower before I could spot it. > > Also, there have been cases working with small AC EMF sources where I > did not expect the small amount of time at arms length to be a problem, > but that night realized I was suffering greatly from the exposure. And > the sounds buzzing in my head were exactly like the sound the source > made... kind of weird. I also am beginning to speculate that if I can > listen > carefully to my tinnitus I can sometimes tell what kind of exposure caused > it. When > there's too many exposures or they're too strong it has not been possible. > > Bill > > > > > > On 9/5/07, asurisuk <asurisuk@...> wrote: > > > > If you were living in a house in a remote, rural, virtually RF > > environment, like where I am, and you came home from a walk in the > > hills and someone had hidden a switched on DECT phone in your house > > while you were out. I GUARANTEE that you would know INSTANTLY that > > something major had changed. If you have ES like mine, that is. > > > > You can't perform provocation studies in areas sodden with EMFs. > > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul Coffman" > > <pkcoff@> wrote: > > > > > > I had something happen today that made me rethink this whole EMF > > thing. I > > > decided to blind test myself with a wireless router with my uncle. > > Before > > > the test, we were in his basement and I was holding the router in > > my hand > > > and plugging it in and noticing pain between my ears like I > > normally do and > > > then turning it off and the pain goes away. Then for the test I > > had my > > > uncle write series of 8 yes or no's - a yes would mean he would > > turn the > > > router on and a no would mean he would turn it off. Then 8 times I > > would > > > leave and come into the room and stand right next to this thing and > > not look > > > at it so I didn't know if it was on or off and then see I would > > write down > > > on my own paper if I felt the router on or off. I was sure I would > > score > > > 100%. During the test I was pretty sure on some and then very > > sure on a > > > couple. However, when I compared the results I was wrong about > > half the > > > time, including the times when I was very sure this thing was on or > > very > > > sure it was off - as in no symptoms, even though it was on. We did > > this > > > test again with the same inaccuracies by me. This lead me to > > conclude 1 of > > > 2 things: > > > > > > 1.) These energy fields really don't have a biological effect and > > it is > > > 100% psychological. > > > 2.) These energy fileds do have a biological effect, but my mind or > > > subconscious plays a gigantic role on how they actually affect me. > > > > > > There's a ton of studies that say there is a definite biological > > effect by > > > these energy fields on cellular function, so #1 can't be the case, > > so right > > > now I am thinking it is #2. I don't yet know what or how I will > > continue > > > with dealing with this issue because I too have had my life ruined > > by it, > > > but it makes me start looking at this thing differently and > > believing alot > > > more in the power of my mind or life force or whatever else is > > reacting so > > > horribly to this stuff. I have a hypno therapist I'm going to > > start seeing > > > in earnest again I think at this point. Try some similar test > > yourself and > > > see what happens, it may surprise you as it did me. > > > > > > On 9/2/07, jbbolden24 <jbbolden24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am about ready to end my life over this damn problem. I have > > been > > > > in pain for 4 years since my initial exposure. I have tried > > near > > > > everything. > > > > > > > > I have tried: NMT, BIOFEEDBACK, various vitamin supplements, I > > have > > > > gotten two sinus surgeries, and just last Friday, I have gotten my > > > > wisdom tooth pulled. Nothing, I mean nothing, that I have tried > > has > > > > stopped my EMF Sensitivity. > > > > > > > > It is almost as if my body just wants to be in pain. I have the > > same > > > > pain in the back of my gums that I had in the beginning. I have > > had > > > > come and go bouts of facial tingling, burning, and etc. However, > > > > those symptoms come and go. However, the pain in my nerves where > > my > > > > wisdom teeth would be located in my upper jaw NEVER STOPS. How in > > the > > > > hell can my body get caught in such a damn infinite loop like > > this? > > > > It hasn't stoppped since I was overexposed damn near 4 year ago. > > > > > > > > Before October of 2003, I couldn't even FEEL EMF's. Now, I can't > > even > > > > imagine what it was like to feel that way anymomre. Never in my > > life > > > > did I ever think that I would encounter a problem so damn hard to > > > > solve. I mean, I can't even get relief. I don't understand why my > > > > body doesn't RESPOND to anything like other people's on here did. > > > > > > > > My immune system doesn't seem to respond to ANYTHING. The only > > time I > > > > get any type of relief is if I take a shower, or go to sleep, or > > go > > > > outside and get some fresh air. I build up some sort of tolerance. > > > > However, once my body senses EMF's in the environment again, it > > goes > > > > right back to the same painful state that it was in before. > > > > > > > > I have tried EMF protection devices, and none of them made a > > > > difference. I just don't know what to do. > > > > > > > > I am not sure what vitamins to take to heal my injured nervous > > system. > > > > > > > > Just recently, I have just purchased some Vitamin B-12, Gotu > > Kola, bee > > > > pollen, and etc. I have read somewhere that these supplements > > > > good in healing injured nerves. I really need help and advice, > > > > because I am on the verge of taking my own life over this > > disorder. > > > > > > > > Someone please get back to me, > > > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Coffman > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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In reply to this post by asurisuk
It does seem to be true that many of the studies wanted to find no effect.
I suppose one should ask about the design of such a study before taking part. For instance, I think it should be expected that at any point the subject be allowed to halt the stimulus (mock or not) and not be removed from the study for doing so (i.e., this exposure was long enough). Otherwise I think the study is unethical. And the mock conditions must be confirmed as being very low at frequencies from ELF to at least several GHz. Our own priority should be healing, but we'll get a lot more support, and slow down this toxic assault, if the scientists and the public catch on that this is real and could happen to them. On 9/8/07, asurisuk <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Daniel, you highlight the difficulties with the whole idea of > provocation tests, because there are many people who do not feel well > ANYWHERE and, furthermore, have no idea what is triggering their > symptoms, and whether it is internal or external. > > I think most ppl who want to do provocation tests on us probably > aren't terribly sympathetic to our condition, and should be ignored! > At the end of the day, its about healing isn't it? Finding the things > that work. Finding the things that ES persons have in common in > terms of what they consider to be a benign environment. > > I would be happy with returning to pre-1990 levels of man-made high > frequency radiation. I would have to be careful with magnetic > fields, but deal with the former and there would be plenty of options > for avoiding high levels of the latter. > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, "danielferres" > <danielferres@...> wrote: > > > > > > Maybe you need also to avoid geopathic stressed zones. > > Which also could affect your experiments. > > > > Sorry, I hadn't introduced myself yet. > > My name is Daniel and I'm ElectroSensitive and GeopathicSensitive > > from Spain. > > > > Regards, > > Daniel > > > > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, "asurisuk" > <asurisuk@> wrote: > > > > > > If you were living in a house in a remote, rural, virtually RF > free > > > environment, like where I am, and you came home from a walk in > the > > > hills and someone had hidden a switched on DECT phone in your > house > > > while you were out. I GUARANTEE that you would know INSTANTLY > that > > > something major had changed. If you have ES like mine, that is. > > > > > > You can't perform provocation studies in areas sodden with EMFs. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Elektrosmog is a very large family.
Each of its members can trigger your electrosensibility. It is not so, that electrosensibility happens gradually. It is there from one day to another. Very often, the magnetic DC fields from metals parts in beds play a role in that for instance. It is known, that people just can stand a DECT phone, but a new mobile phone mast does change everything. It is not the phone mast that has made you electrosensible, but the DECT phone. For more info about elektrosmog, have a look at: http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina100.html Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Bitdefender ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bruno" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 06:38 Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Home provocation experiments > It does seem to be true that many of the studies wanted to find no effect. > > I suppose one should ask about the design of such a study before taking > part. > > For instance, I think it should be expected that at any point the subject > be > allowed to halt the stimulus (mock or not) and not be removed from the > study > for > doing so (i.e., this exposure was long enough). Otherwise I think the > study > is unethical. And the mock conditions must be confirmed as being very low > at frequencies from ELF to at least several GHz. > > Our own priority should be healing, but we'll get a lot more support, and > slow down > this toxic assault, if the scientists and the public catch on that this is > real and > could happen to them. > > On 9/8/07, asurisuk <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Daniel, you highlight the difficulties with the whole idea of >> provocation tests, because there are many people who do not feel well >> ANYWHERE and, furthermore, have no idea what is triggering their >> symptoms, and whether it is internal or external. >> >> I think most ppl who want to do provocation tests on us probably >> aren't terribly sympathetic to our condition, and should be ignored! >> At the end of the day, its about healing isn't it? Finding the things >> that work. Finding the things that ES persons have in common in >> terms of what they consider to be a benign environment. >> >> I would be happy with returning to pre-1990 levels of man-made high >> frequency radiation. I would have to be careful with magnetic >> fields, but deal with the former and there would be plenty of options >> for avoiding high levels of the latter. >> |
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In reply to this post by BiBrun
I think there are so many factors involved in constructing a fair and
convincing environment for a provocation experiment that it seems impossible to me. But I may be wrong. There may be ways of measuring physiological changes with electronic equipment, but this "tell me if you think its on or off" approach is hopeless! I understand the problem, though. We say things like: "I can't go in there because the DECT phone makes me ill". They say: "well if you react so immediately then prove it under test conditions." So we need to think about how we approach this conundrum. Once upon a time we all had bad symptoms and did not know the cause. Then we found out, and immediately the situation changed, we become vigilant and stressed. We avoid what we know will hurt us, on a cumulative basis. (I seem to have a daily allowance, which will depend upon my EMF circumstances at home). There is undoubtedly an immediate stress response upon seeing the item. And the stress response under a 'guessing' test is so enormous that it makes the test unviable . I think the answer is to create an environment where there is a general tendency for people's symptoms to improve when they stay there. It would not be the perfect environment, it would not suit all, just an environment that incorporated the minimum requirements (minimal EMF & RF) that ppl might be willing to settle for, that would make it preferable to the alternative on offer worldwide. But I know that's pie in the sky because in order to secure such a 'sanctuary' ppl are demanding the condition is proved. Its a viscious circle. It's particularly disturbing to read of the intervention by the mobile phone industry to thwart the building of an ES-friendly block of flats in Varmland, Sweden, as this would have been a fantastic opportunity to study the illness not just for the benefit of the general public, but for ourselves!! Its worrying that a huge industry should bother themselves with such a small project, and if this really is the case then its not me going into conspiracy theory overdrive to assume that they would seek to jeopordise the setting up of any such community. Mark may think consider it short-termism, but countless people with ES are choosing to move themselves to a more benign EMF environment, if not to cure their illness then at least to succeed in dramatically slowing its progress. I understand that there needs to be an ownership of our symptoms. Return me to pre-1990s levels of man made RF (not including RF as the by-product of corded electronic equipment) and i would take ownership of the remaining symptoms. Bear in mind what the world renowned experts say in the Bioinitiative report "it is not unreasonable to question the safety of RF at ANY level"! To that extent I suppose I'm saying that what I call ES is not an illness but a reasonable response to a dangerous pollutant, which is why any doctor that suggests CBT to me will be told to stick it up his arse. Remove the RF and I might be able to work out what illness I DO have! Peace and unity! jane PS. Thanks for the post Richard X, very good. What i've never understood about DECTs is the need for that 24 hr pulsing. Why can't they do it only when a call comes in? --- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote: > > It does seem to be true that many of the studies wanted to find no effect. > > I suppose one should ask about the design of such a study before taking > part. > > For instance, I think it should be expected that at any point the subject be > allowed to halt the stimulus (mock or not) and not be removed from the study > for > doing so (i.e., this exposure was long enough). Otherwise I think the > study > is unethical. And the mock conditions must be confirmed as being very low > at frequencies from ELF to at least several GHz. > > Our own priority should be healing, but we'll get a lot more support, and > slow down > this toxic assault, if the scientists and the public catch on that this is > real and > could happen to them. > > On 9/8/07, asurisuk <asurisuk@...> wrote: > > > > Daniel, you highlight the difficulties with the whole idea of > > provocation tests, because there are many people who do not feel well > > ANYWHERE and, furthermore, have no idea what is triggering their > > symptoms, and whether it is internal or external. > > > > I think most ppl who want to do provocation tests on us probably > > aren't terribly sympathetic to our condition, and should be ignored! > > At the end of the day, its about healing isn't it? Finding the things > > that work. Finding the things that ES persons have in common in > > terms of what they consider to be a benign environment. > > > > I would be happy with returning to pre-1990 levels of man-made high > > frequency radiation. I would have to be careful with magnetic > > fields, but deal with the former and there would be plenty of options > > for avoiding high levels of the latter. > > > > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens% 40yahoogroups.com>, "danielferres" > > <danielferres@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe you need also to avoid geopathic stressed zones. > > > Which also could affect your experiments. > > > > > > Sorry, I hadn't introduced myself yet. > > > My name is Daniel and I'm ElectroSensitive and GeopathicSensitive > > > from Spain. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens% 40yahoogroups.com>, "asurisuk" > > <asurisuk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If you were living in a house in a remote, rural, virtually RF > > free > > > > environment, like where I am, and you came home from a walk in > > the > > > > hills and someone had hidden a switched on DECT phone in your > > house > > > > while you were out. I GUARANTEE that you would know INSTANTLY > > that > > > > something major had changed. If you have ES like mine, that > > > > > > > > You can't perform provocation studies in areas sodden with EMFs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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The point is that you do not understand electrosensibility.
There is a time factor involved, aldo depending on your *biological window*. Many people do react to certain DECT phones within minutes, while reaction to mobile phone masts (GSM) may caome several hours later. I know of people, who today have reactions to what they wee exposed to yesterday. And it takes also some time for leaving the body. Electrosensible people do not react like a machine, where one presses a button, and they instantly may tell if they feel anything. No way. First you must pep your immune system. Did you read *Flow System Therapy* ? No, I assume. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Bitdefender ----- Original Message ----- From: "asurisuk" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 14:35 Subject: [eSens] provocation experiments >I think there are so many factors involved in constructing a fair and > convincing environment for a provocation experiment that it seems > impossible to me. But I may be wrong. There may be ways of > measuring physiological changes with electronic equipment, but > this "tell me if you think its on or off" approach is hopeless! > > I understand the problem, though. We say things like: "I can't go in > there because the DECT phone makes me ill". They say: "well if you > react so immediately then prove it under test conditions." So we > need to think about how we approach this conundrum. > > Once upon a time we all had bad symptoms and did not know the cause. > Then we found out, and immediately the situation changed, we become > vigilant and stressed. We avoid what we know will hurt us, on a > cumulative basis. (I seem to have a daily allowance, which will > depend upon my EMF circumstances at home). There is undoubtedly an > immediate stress response upon seeing the item. And the stress > response under a 'guessing' test is so enormous that it makes the > test unviable . > > I think the answer is to create an environment where there is a > general tendency for people's symptoms to improve when they stay > there. It would not be the perfect environment, it would not suit > all, just an environment that incorporated the minimum requirements > (minimal EMF & RF) that ppl might be willing to settle for, that > would make it preferable to the alternative on offer worldwide. > > But I know that's pie in the sky because in order to secure such > a 'sanctuary' ppl are demanding the condition is proved. Its a > viscious circle. It's particularly disturbing to read of the > intervention by the mobile phone industry to thwart the building of > an ES-friendly block of flats in Varmland, Sweden, as this would have > been a fantastic opportunity to study the illness not just for the > benefit of the general public, but for ourselves!! Its worrying that > a huge industry should bother themselves with such a small project, > and if this really is the case then its not me going into conspiracy > theory overdrive to assume that they would seek to jeopordise the > setting up of any such community. > > Mark may think consider it short-termism, but countless people with > ES are choosing to move themselves to a more benign EMF environment, > if not to cure their illness then at least to succeed in dramatically > slowing its progress. > > I understand that there needs to be an ownership of our symptoms. > Return me to pre-1990s levels of man made RF (not including RF as the > by-product of corded electronic equipment) and i would take > ownership of the remaining symptoms. Bear in mind what the > world renowned experts say in the Bioinitiative report "it is not > unreasonable to question the safety of RF at ANY level"! To that > extent I suppose I'm saying that what I call ES is not an illness but > a reasonable response to a dangerous pollutant, which is why any > doctor that suggests CBT to me will be told to stick it up his > arse. Remove the RF and I might be able to work out what illness I > DO have! > > Peace and unity! > jane > > PS. Thanks for the post Richard X, very good. What i've never > understood about DECTs is the need for that 24 hr pulsing. Why can't > they do it only when a call comes in? > > > > --- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote: >> >> It does seem to be true that many of the studies wanted to find no > effect. >> >> I suppose one should ask about the design of such a study before > taking >> part. >> >> For instance, I think it should be expected that at any point the > subject be >> allowed to halt the stimulus (mock or not) and not be removed from > the study >> for >> doing so (i.e., this exposure was long enough). Otherwise I think > the >> study >> is unethical. And the mock conditions must be confirmed as being > very low >> at frequencies from ELF to at least several GHz. >> >> Our own priority should be healing, but we'll get a lot more > support, and >> slow down >> this toxic assault, if the scientists and the public catch on that > this is >> real and >> could happen to them. >> >> On 9/8/07, asurisuk <asurisuk@...> wrote: >> > >> > Daniel, you highlight the difficulties with the whole idea of >> > provocation tests, because there are many people who do not feel > well >> > ANYWHERE and, furthermore, have no idea what is triggering their >> > symptoms, and whether it is internal or external. >> > >> > I think most ppl who want to do provocation tests on us probably >> > aren't terribly sympathetic to our condition, and should be > ignored! >> > At the end of the day, its about healing isn't it? Finding the > things >> > that work. Finding the things that ES persons have in common in >> > terms of what they consider to be a benign environment. >> > >> > I would be happy with returning to pre-1990 levels of man-made > high >> > frequency radiation. I would have to be careful with magnetic >> > fields, but deal with the former and there would be plenty of > options >> > for avoiding high levels of the latter. >> > >> > >> > --- In [hidden email] <eSens% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "danielferres" >> > <danielferres@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > Maybe you need also to avoid geopathic stressed zones. >> > > Which also could affect your experiments. >> > > >> > > Sorry, I hadn't introduced myself yet. >> > > My name is Daniel and I'm ElectroSensitive and > GeopathicSensitive >> > > from Spain. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Daniel >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens% > 40yahoogroups.com>, "asurisuk" >> > <asurisuk@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > If you were living in a house in a remote, rural, virtually RF >> > free >> > > > environment, like where I am, and you came home from a walk in >> > the >> > > > hills and someone had hidden a switched on DECT phone in your >> > house >> > > > while you were out. I GUARANTEE that you would know INSTANTLY >> > that >> > > > something major had changed. If you have ES like mine, that > is. >> > > > >> > > > You can't perform provocation studies in areas sodden with > EMFs. >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
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In reply to this post by asurisuk
> PS. Thanks for the post Richard X, very good. What i've never
> understood about DECTs is the need for that 24 hr pulsing. Why can't > they do it only when a call comes in? The towers need to know where your phone is, so that when you get a call, it is directed to the correct tower. So the phone must send out periodic signals saying "I'm here! I'm turned on!" Marc |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
I agree.
Here's how I illustrate it: Think of Glow-In-The-Dark Paint. When you shine a UV light at it, it takes TIME to build up the energy level necessary to glow brightly. If a researcher turns on a noisy transmitter, I'm not going to feel it right away, unless the transmitter is especially powerful, or I am already "glowing". (Read glowing as "buzzing nurologically") Then it takes hours for the glow to drift away, or for my nervous system to calm down. So when I raise my hand to say the transmitter is on, it is likely time-delayed, and the tester just turned it off. Stewart charles wrote: > And it takes also some time for leaving the body. > > Electrosensible people do not react like a machine, where one presses a > button, and they instantly may tell if they feel anything. > No way. > > |
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Great analogy!
Note also how you don't see the glow until you turn the light off. I.e., the exposure becomes more obvious when you get to a nice quiet place. Bill On 9/9/07, Stewart A. <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I agree. > Here's how I illustrate it: > > Think of Glow-In-The-Dark Paint. > When you shine a UV light at it, it takes TIME to build up the energy > level necessary to glow brightly. > > If a researcher turns on a noisy transmitter, I'm not going to feel it > right away, unless the transmitter is especially powerful, or I am > already "glowing". > (Read glowing as "buzzing nurologically") > > Then it takes hours for the glow to drift away, or for my nervous system > to calm down. > > So when I raise my hand to say the transmitter is on, it is likely > time-delayed, and the tester just turned it off. > > Stewart > > charles wrote: > > And it takes also some time for leaving the body. > > > > Electrosensible people do not react like a machine, where one presses a > > button, and they instantly may tell if they feel anything. > > No way. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro stress
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In reply to this post by danielferres
Thank you Daniel for your informative post.
I have an area in my yard that feels quite awful although theres no emf it feels like its coming from the ground and the negativity extends in a line towards our dining table. I had an intuitive look at it with me and he also felt the negativity. We attempted to beautify it it with a sculpture and plants but the effect is still there. If we hired a dowser to look at it is there anything they can do with the information they find to improve the area? or is moving the only solution to GS? I was curious if you have looked into the connection between calcium deficiency and ES? Thanks again, Sandi |
Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro
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> If we hired a dowser
> to look at it is there anything they can do with the information they > find to improve the area? or is moving the only solution to GS? You could buy a Springlife "House & Garden" rod, stick in the soil where the problem is the worst, and see if that makes any difference: http://www.choosecra.com/htmlpages/homepage/prodinfo/springlife.html That might neutralize the problem locally, as long as the problem is not too severe. Marc |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Sorry Marc, but I must correct you here.
DECT phones do not work with towers, but just base stations. Those are the things where you put the phone in, and where it is loading also. Those base stations are the *lethal* point. They are emitting 100 Hz pulses around the clock, whether ones is phning or not. Another point is, that those DECT base stations are inside your house, and they have a range of about 300 meters. I can measure them as far as three houses away. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Bitdefender ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 16:30 Subject: Re: [eSens] provocation experiments >> PS. Thanks for the post Richard X, very good. What i've never >> understood about DECTs is the need for that 24 hr pulsing. Why can't >> they do it only when a call comes in? > > The towers need to know where your phone is, so that when you > get a call, it is directed to the correct tower. So the phone > must send out periodic signals saying "I'm here! I'm turned on!" > > Marc > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
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charles wrote:
> Sorry Marc, but I must correct you here. > DECT phones do not work with towers, but just base stations. Okay, thanks for that correction. I was thinking of cellphones, not DECT phones. All of the phones in our house have cords, so I'm not much of an expert on cordless phones... :-) Marc |
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In reply to this post by asurisuk
In a message dated 9/9/2007 1:58:32 PM GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes: The point is that you do not understand electrosensibility. There is a time factor involved, aldo depending on your *biological window*. Many people do react to certain DECT phones within minutes, while reaction to mobile phone masts (GSM) may caome several hours later. I know of people, who today have reactions to what they wee exposed to yesterday. And it takes also some time for leaving the body. Electrosensible people do not react like a machine, where one presses a button, and they instantly may tell if they feel anything. No way. Charles - I grinned and bared a freinds dect phone yesterday for 1 hour close exposure despite my earlobe stinging on the side facing the base, and eye pain today, plus several times my heart has miseed beats, this happens every time I get exposed and like you say there is the time lag. Typical when I am in the car travelling down the motorway I become most sensitive to masts after half an hour journey time then the reaction is instant for the skin symptoms, ie smarting,tingling itching most often occurring on the side that the mast is located. PAUL UK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Yes, the base unit is pulsing simply to enable the user to take the
handset anywhere in the house. The call itself comes down a normal phone line, like any other landline. It seems to me that alot of misery could be alleviated by developing a phone that does not pulse unless triggered to do so by a call coming in. Whats so difficult about that? --- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote: > > charles wrote: > > Sorry Marc, but I must correct you here. > > DECT phones do not work with towers, but just base stations. > > Okay, thanks for that correction. I was thinking of cellphones, > not DECT phones. > > All of the phones in our house have cords, so I'm not much of an > expert on cordless phones... :-) > > Marc > |
Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro stress
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In reply to this post by sandimaurer
Hi Sandi and all, I answer to Sandi's questions. > sculpture and plants but the effect is still there. If we hired a dowser > to look at it is there anything they can do with the information they > find to improve the area? or is moving the only solution to GS? My geobiologist, that has 30 years of professional experience, thought that moving is the best solution, he didn't know any product to neutralize GS. In the web there are some products that claim they're able to neutralize GS. I think that if you put some device to neutralize GS maybe you need to check again how this device has moved/neutralized the energies unless you are so sensitive to check for yourself. In the past I bought some products: - CET (cosmic energy transformers). http://www.alivewater.net/prod/cets.htm - Harmonizer II http://www.conscious-living.de/englisch/produkte/produkt2_e.htm I haven't perceived noticeable effects over me (mainly because I was over-exposed to RFs?). My father noticed sleep disturbances with the Harmonizer II (but I don't know why, detox? problems?). I was tempted to buy more of them but first I'd like to learn more about geopathic stress and I would like to be able to find a reliable objective method/device to test it for myself. I found those interesting products in the web, but I don't have known testimonials about it. - rayonex duplex III (it also has plugs for electrosmog). - raditech. - ADR-3 (I know my doctor was testing this product with some clients, maybe in few weeks I could know more about his opinion). May be someone in the group has experience with one of those devices? > I was curious if you have looked into the connection between calcium > deficiency and ES? In my worst ES periods I've done blood tests that haven't showed calcium deficiency. My doctor supplemented me with lots of magnesium (I suppose I had a lack of it maybe for the amount stress and electro/geopathic stress), I suppose he detected with kinesiology that I needed it. Best regards, Daniel > Thanks again, Sandi > |
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Hi Daniel, I have a unit that is supposed to neutralise emfs, and
presumably GS, from a place that calls itself a Geopathic Stress Consultancy. It consists of an electromagnetised crystal, apparently. (I've yet to rip the box apart and find out exactly what i paid my 200 pounds for). It worked pretty good for about a month at my previous address and i continued to use it (though with diminishing good effects) until i had to take flight from my home and move to another part of the country. IN my new place the set up is totally different from my prevoious address. Previous address was: bad RF, not too bad magnetic fields, dry and sunny climate. New address: very low RF, bad magnetic fields, damp and dark climate. It is mountainous and there are many metals in the ground (esp aluminium). Here my unit is absolutely hopeless, and even when i go and stay at my previous address i still cannot use it. It is redundant. best wishes jane --- In [hidden email], "danielferres" <danielferres@...> wrote: > > > Hi Sandi and all, > > I answer to Sandi's questions. > > > sculpture and plants but the effect is still there. If we hired a > dowser > > to look at it is there anything they can do with the information they > > find to improve the area? or is moving the only solution to GS? > > My geobiologist, that has 30 years of professional > experience, thought that moving is the best solution, he didn't know > any product to neutralize GS. > In the web there are some products that claim they're able to > neutralize GS. > I think that if you put some device to neutralize GS maybe you need to > check again how this device has moved/neutralized the energies unless > you are so sensitive to check for yourself. > In the past I bought some products: > > - CET (cosmic energy transformers). > http://www.alivewater.net/prod/cets.htm > - Harmonizer II > http://www.conscious- living.de/englisch/produkte/produkt2_e.htm > > I haven't perceived noticeable effects > over me (mainly because I was over-exposed to RFs?). My father noticed > sleep disturbances with the Harmonizer II (but I don't know why, > detox? problems?). > > I was tempted to buy more of them but > first I'd like to learn more about geopathic stress and I would like > to be able to find a reliable objective method/device to test it for > myself. > I found those interesting products in the web, but I don't have > known testimonials about it. > - rayonex duplex III (it also has plugs for electrosmog). > - raditech. > - ADR-3 > (I know my doctor was testing this product with > some clients, maybe in few weeks I could know > more about his opinion). > > May be someone in the group has experience with one of those > > > I was curious if you have looked into the connection between calcium > > deficiency and ES? > > In my worst ES periods I've done blood tests that haven't showed > calcium deficiency. > My doctor supplemented me with > lots of magnesium (I suppose I had a lack of it maybe for the amount > stress and electro/geopathic stress), I suppose he detected with > kinesiology that I needed it. > > Best regards, > Daniel > > > Thanks again, Sandi > > > |
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Of course, the unit will not work accordingly.
Because it contains crystals. And they happen to absorb everything, and after a (short) while, they start emitting it. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Bitdefender ----- Original Message ----- From: "asurisuk" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 14:22 Subject: [eSens] Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro stress > Hi Daniel, I have a unit that is supposed to neutralise emfs, and > presumably GS, from a place that calls itself a Geopathic Stress > Consultancy. It consists of an electromagnetised crystal, > apparently. (I've yet to rip the box apart and find out exactly what > i paid my 200 pounds for). > > It worked pretty good for about a month at my previous address and i > continued to use it (though with diminishing good effects) until i > had to take flight from my home and move to another part of the > country. > > IN my new place the set up is totally different from my prevoious > address. > > Previous address was: bad RF, not too bad magnetic fields, dry and > sunny climate. > > New address: very low RF, bad magnetic fields, damp and dark > climate. It is mountainous and there are many metals in the ground > (esp aluminium). > > Here my unit is absolutely hopeless, and even when i go and stay at > my previous address i still cannot use it. It is redundant. > > best wishes > jane > --- In [hidden email], "danielferres" <danielferres@...> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Sandi and all, >> >> I answer to Sandi's questions. >> >> > sculpture and plants but the effect is still there. If we hired a >> dowser >> > to look at it is there anything they can do with the information > they >> > find to improve the area? or is moving the only solution to GS? >> >> My geobiologist, that has 30 years of professional >> experience, thought that moving is the best solution, he didn't know >> any product to neutralize GS. >> In the web there are some products that claim they're able to >> neutralize GS. >> I think that if you put some device to neutralize GS maybe you need > to >> check again how this device has moved/neutralized the energies > unless >> you are so sensitive to check for yourself. >> In the past I bought some products: >> >> - CET (cosmic energy transformers). >> http://www.alivewater.net/prod/cets.htm >> - Harmonizer II >> http://www.conscious- > living.de/englisch/produkte/produkt2_e.htm >> >> I haven't perceived noticeable effects >> over me (mainly because I was over-exposed to RFs?). My father > noticed >> sleep disturbances with the Harmonizer II (but I don't know why, >> detox? problems?). >> >> I was tempted to buy more of them but >> first I'd like to learn more about geopathic stress and I would like >> to be able to find a reliable objective method/device to test it for >> myself. >> I found those interesting products in the web, but I don't have >> known testimonials about it. >> - rayonex duplex III (it also has plugs for electrosmog). >> - raditech. >> - ADR-3 >> (I know my doctor was testing this product with >> some clients, maybe in few weeks I could know >> more about his opinion). >> >> May be someone in the group has experience with one of those > devices? >> >> > I was curious if you have looked into the connection between > calcium >> > deficiency and ES? >> >> In my worst ES periods I've done blood tests that haven't showed >> calcium deficiency. >> My doctor supplemented me with >> lots of magnesium (I suppose I had a lack of it maybe for the > amount >> stress and electro/geopathic stress), I suppose he detected with >> kinesiology that I needed it. >> >> Best regards, >> Daniel >> >> > Thanks again, Sandi >> > >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
Re: Home provocation experiments + Geopathic/electro
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In reply to this post by danielferres
> - CET (cosmic energy transformers).
> http://www.alivewater.net/prod/cets.htm I only have experience with the above item. This was 6 years ago, when I was at my most sensitive point. Even when I pulled these things out of the shipping box, I could feel a strong amount of energy radiating from them. And then for the next few days, I was flat on my back, fatigued (detox?). The cats also didn't seem to like them (a common reaction), as they started peeing on the carpet. I did notice that I was sleeping better (and I believe my testimonial about this is still on their website). However, between the cats reaction and the fact that these didn't help my computer tolerance, I eventually just got rid of them. Especially since I had later found devices which did indeed help me with the computer. Marc |
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