Capacitor RFI/EMI line filters?

Hi all,

I'm curious -- has anyone here ever tried a simple capacitor RFI/EMI filter
plugged into their electrical system, and if so, did it make any difference
in your ES symptoms?

Such filters are actually quite common, and are built-into some
surge-protector power strips. For example:

http://www.polsteins.com/fisinc5outcu.html

Such filters use a capacitor to take the high frequency "noise" out of your
electrical lines. There is anecdotal evidence that such filters have
dramatically improved people's health.

Marc

Hallo,
Yes I have tried to put a capacitor of 5 nF between the line and ground in
the wallsocket. Then I was measuring the e-smog Effekt of a normal socket lamp
on the acupunkture system with electroacupuncture.The negative effect that was
there before installation of the capacitor disappeared then. This indicates,
that also an e-sensitive person would benefit from this. You know, I used only
a capacitor, not the combination of capacitor and inducticity wich makes
usually a filter.
Greetings
Dietrich Gruen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> The negative effect that was there before installation of the capacitor
> disappeared then. This indicates, that also an e-sensitive person would
> benefit from this.

Interesting!

The reason this interests me is that one of the most beneficial things I
ever tried was a Quantum power strip. When I originally bought this, I
thought the benefit was solely due to their "special quantum treatment".
However, years later I learned that this power strip also had a capacitor
RFI/EMI filter in it. So it's quite possible that I could have had the
same reaction to a much cheaper power strip that included an RFI/EMI
filter in it. (and in my case, 2 power strips worked better than just
one, which is also true with RFI/EMI filters)

Marc

Hi Marc,
your analysis of the Quantum power strip shows, that its inventor al least
had some good technical knowledge. He also might have been hiding behind this
construction a different principle of eliminating elektrosmog.

The EMF that we can measure are composed of two differnt kinds of waves,
transversal waves and longitudinal waves. They usually appear together.Our
currently available measuring tools react only to the transversal ones not to the
longitudinal ones. And biological organisms react only to the longitudinal ones
not to the transversal ones exept the heating effect. These longitudinal waves
have the interesting quality to pass easily the shielding of an faradayan
cage. With certain devices one can select these longitudinal waves and alter them
so they no longer have their negative biological effect. May be the Quantum
power strip did contain such a principle also.

What I said above may sound strange for most people. Yet there are already
quite a few people that know about it and use it.

Lately I found in a lecture of Prof. Ulrich Warnke from the Universitiy of
Saarbrücken the following concluding remark: "Did we follow basically the wrong
path concerning the problem called "electrosmog", because we were exclusively
measuring and considering the transversal electromagnetic wave - and not the
longitudinal one? Future will clarify this."

I think, this future has already begun.

Dietrich Grün


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Dietrich, Marc and others on the list,

I am still interested in relevant, peer reviewed info regarding
"transversal waves and longitudinal waves".

If there is no way to measure longitudinal waves, how can you then say
for sure that they do exist? (Again, please refer to published, peer
reviewed articles etc.).

greetings,

Anders Eriksson

[hidden email] wrote:

Hello Anders Eriksson,

in this list we try to understand what is going on.
Why we got sick in the first place.
What we can do about it.

According to *peer reviewed science*, it is all *between the ears*, and
electrosensible people cannot exist.
That we get sick from electricity and frequencies around us, cannot be true.
*What is not allowed to exist, cannot be!*

Little by little we get ideas what and why these things are nevertheless
happening.
More than 100 years ago Nikola Tesla described these longitudinal waves and
did some experiments with them.
A great number of hardboiled scientists dismiss these theories; like some
time ago when someone uttered that the earth may not be flat at all, and
that the earth was not the center of the universe.

A lot of the contemporary rulings are based on assumptions, which are not
even proved.
Day in, day out we are exposed by those dumb rulings.

It is good, that despite the heavy critic of scientists, who do not possess
this knowledge, people like prof. meyls, dr. Warnke and dr. Gruen, and
others, still continue their research and probing into this field.

In *het bitje* juli 2003, you may look at the pictures on page 17 and 18,
and explain why this happened.
See: http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/Pagina41.html

Dr. Gruen is by no means a magician; his findings are only explicable by his
own theories that longitudinal waves exist.

It is a bit preposterous to demand for peer reviewed published articles now.
Maybe in a couple of years from now.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Anders Eriksson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:57
Subject: Re: [eSens] Capacitor RFI/EMI line filters?

least
> > had some good technical knowledge. He also might have been hiding behind
this
> > construction a different principle of eliminating elektrosmog.
> >
> > The EMF that we can measure are composed of two differnt kinds of waves,
> > transversal waves and longitudinal waves. They usually appear
together.Our
> > currently available measuring tools react only to the transversal ones
not to the
> > longitudinal ones. And biological organisms react only to the
longitudinal ones
> > not to the transversal ones exept the heating effect. These longitudinal
waves
> > have the interesting quality to pass easily the shielding of an
faradayan
> > cage. With certain devices one can select these longitudinal waves and
alter them
> > so they no longer have their negative biological effect. May be the
Quantum
> > power strip did contain such a principle also.
> >
> > What I said above may sound strange for most people. Yet there are
already
> > quite a few people that know about it and use it.
> >
> > Lately I found in a lecture of Prof. Ulrich Warnke from the Universitiy
of
> > Saarbrücken the following concluding remark: "Did we follow basically
the wrong
> > path concerning the problem called "electrosmog", because we were
exclusively
> > measuring and considering the transversal electromagnetic wave - and not
the

Hallo Anders,

I said, that there is no measuring instrument so far to measure longitudinal
waves. Since biological organisms react to these waves, you would have to
measure the reactions of biological organisms. All electrosensitive personsare
such measuring tools. I am measuring the biological effect of the longitudinal
waves by electroacupuncture, which works in every person.Through experiments I
found out, that a faradayan cage does not prevent just this part of the
elektromagnetic wave, that is biological effective. Yet it does change it. I am
waiting someone reduplicating these experiments. But there is no reputationto
win in reduplicating the results of someone else. Also most scientists still
laugh at the idea of longitudinal waves. See what happened to Prof. Meyl. Who
wants to come up with ideas that others find ridiculous. To understand me right,
I am not a follower of Prof. Meyl, whose work is very intersting.

I have seen someone reduplicating my experiments with wheat germs growing in
water that has been treated with the radiation of a mobile phone. He changed
about everything in this experiment and came up with a different result,
naturally. Fortunatedly I could understand his fíndings, because with certain
settings of the experiment I have had the same results like him.

Well, the behaviour of the longitudinal waves to pass the shielding of a
faradayan cage was known already by Nicola Tesla. So this would be the first step
to try measuring them.

To be clear about the situation, I am not measuring in electroacupuncture
the longitudinal waves themselves, but the information that is carried by them,
that means the reaction of the biological organism to this information. Andif
you can neutralize this information, then you will have no more negative
effect of the longitudinal waves. Most of my research is dealing with this
question. And I am aware that many other people besides me found valid answers. But
they are ignored by the scientific society of today including mobile phone
companies.

This will eventually change, but this takes time, like with other scientific
findings of the past.

greetings

Dietrich Grün



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dietrich.

You say that you are measuring the biological effect of the longitudinal
waves through the bodies of humans.
Basically a human body is a large salt-water barrel.
Salt-water being a good conductor has a tendency to short circuit effectively most electrical AC-signals penetrating it.

How do you know what you are measureing?
Could it not be the stray-currents from the lampposts in the street instead?
Or that you measure reflections and standing waves in the near field?

If as you say, a Faraday cage can not stop these waves, what can stop it?
If i want to look for this phenomena myself i must have some sort of reference which is free of the radiation.

Please send an description of how you measure these waves, what kind of instruments, how deep the needles, and their positions etc.
What frequencies are involved?

Yours

Wille Borlin
SWEDEN



[hidden email] wrote:

Hallo, Wille,
your questions are very interesting. Comparing the human body with a barrel
of salt water is denying the fact, that there are billions fo living cells,
that actively react to outer influences to maintain their existence and survive
even under quite hostile conditions. These cells comminicate with each other
through photons, that is light impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp spent
decades of research on this und wrote quite a few books. These light impulses
carry information. Light is an electromagnetic wave. So cells are principally
sensitive to elektromagnetic waves. So any outer elektromagnetic wave may carry
information that interferes with the information between the cells. This isthe
reason, why pulsed waves like in mobile phones have a much stronger effect on
biological organisms than the same frequency without pulsing.
So what I am measuring in electroacupuncture is the change of the electrical
skin resistance and specially its dynamic due to the reaction of the living
body caused by outer electromagnetic waves. The longitudinal waves or whatever
causes this reaction is not directly measured. And after all the reaction is
not caused by the longitudinal wave istelf, it is caused by the information
carried by this wave. This information can be neutral, negative or positivefor
the living organism.The trick is, to change this information or at least
neutralize it and make its negative effect disappear. Since the waves are still
there, your e-meter will show no change in its readings!

While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding of an
faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of water.

How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure the
present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and measure
again and see the difference.

Another discovery was, that a mobile held to a glass of normal tap water
while active, changes the quality of this water, and this quality again canbe
tested by electroacupunkture.
A much stronger change occurs, when the water while exposed to the mobile is
put in an faradayan cage and with the mobile outside the cage. Actually the
effect on the water should disappear according to classic physics. But it is
drastically changed. Since my system of electroacupuncture allows to say how
strong this charging of the water relatively is, I could make a lot of astonishing
discoveries.

I am aware, that out of the above mentioned a lot of new questions may arise.
I wanted to make it simple by just giving a summary of my findings. What I
said is not just theory, it is the result of patient experimentation and itis
proved to be valid, because I put the knowledge into a product to neutralize
electrosmog, which is successfully on the market since 2 years.

This might be enough for the moment.
Greetings, Dietrich Grün


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> What I said is not just theory, it is the result of patient
> experimentation and it is proved to be valid, because I put
> the knowledge into a product to neutralize
> electrosmog, which is successfully on the market since 2 years.

And which product is this? Is there a web page for it?

Marc

While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding of an
faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of water.

Dietrich,
I do not understand the mechanism employed by electroacupuncture (do you use
something like a magnetic resonance analyser?), however I think I understand
some key differences between a Faraday cage and 2cm of water, which might
explain differences experienced. A Faraday cage is not a good shield from
electromagnetic radiation from a mobile phone - the cage should stop the
electric component of the wave from entering, however as I understand it, the
magnetic component of the radiation will penetrate some distance into the cage
(unless the cage is constructed from certain materials, such as those with high
magnetic permeability e.g. Mu-Metal). If the cage you used was small, there is
a possibility that it was completely infiltrated by the magnetic component of
the mobile phone radiation, which would have carried a significant amount of
energy (and correspondingly, a significant amount of 'information') into the
water. I know that water attenuates mobile phone radiation through reading a
document, which described how mobile phone signal strength transmission
decreases when it is raining. I assume that this attenuation results from a
number of mechanisms, including: transmission of energy to water in the
atmosphere in the form of heat; induction of charge in the water; and probably
a number of other mechanisms, which I don't understand, including those
involving the mysterious longitudinal waves. If the water has sufficient
capacity (which is likely to increase if it is connected to the earth, or
something with low potential), then it will most likely absorb a considerable
amount of energy from the mobile phone. Furthermore, if you are measuring the
information 'received' by water, then presumably a layer of water will be the
best filter of this information (incidentally, I have alw2ays said that the
best thing to do with a mobile phone is drop it in a bucket of water). Anyway,
I think that you have made some very valuable points for sufferers on this
list, because it may indicate new, previously unexplored shielding
methodologies and healing strategies. All this probably shows that I'm not
familiar with the apparatus you used in your experiments, but I would very much
like to understand the phenomenon you describe, your experimental techniques
and the healing mechanism of the product that you market.
Regards
Lachlan

The thing about these filters is that most (including the one in the attached
weblink) are designed to filter the energy flowing into the appliance, rather
than the return current flowing back into the household electrical wiring.
According to some electrical technicians, the conventional type will probably
act to filter SOME noise going back into the household wiring, but the best
ones are designed to work best in one direction. The best ones have both an
inductor and a capacitor and, depending how these components are configured,
they will filter noise better in a certain direction. Essentially, as I
understand it, you would have to use most conventional filters backwards to
achieve the desired result, i.e. to stop high frequency noise/harmonics
(generated by the very common switch mode power supplies used in computers and
many other electronic devices) from being sent back through the household on
the neutral wire, which subjects the household to additional fields of various
types and could also act as a transmitter of radiation (with the same frequency
as whatever noise is present). As I understand it (not that I've received a
reply from their technical people yet), the filters made by Stetzer-Electric in
the states are designed to stop the noise from getting back into the wiring,
rather than stopping it from getting into the electrical/electronic device.
Perhaps it could even be possible for a conventional filter to modify the
frequencies of transients in such a way as to be more detrimental to
electrically sensitive people. If you can't buy the 'right' type of filter,
then they can be easily made from components readily available from an
electronics supplies shop, relatively cheaply (though you need one for every
outlet that serves an offending appliance - do the worst appliances first e.g.
things with transformers and motors). If you are unable to do this yourself,
you can get a technician to make one for you and then copy it (these are very
simple devices and generally contain only two inductors and three capacitors).
You could probably find a good design on the web somewhere e.g. use the wiring
diagrams provided on the websites of components suppliers but simply reverse
the direction in which the current flows (go to http://www.rsaustralia.com/ and
type the number 210386 into the search box at the top left hand side of the
page, press go and then scroll down the new page to see a wiring diagram of a
filter). I am very interested to know if anyone on this list has used the
Stetzer Electric type filters with positive (or negative) results, rather than
the conventional filters. Thanks
Lachlan

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Martin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2004 5:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Capacitor RFI/EMI line filters?

Hi all,

I'm curious -- has anyone here ever tried a simple capacitor RFI/EMI filter
plugged into their electrical system, and if so, did it make any difference
in your ES symptoms?

Such filters are actually quite common, and are built-into some
surge-protector power strips. For example:

http://www.polsteins.com/fisinc5outcu.html

Such filters use a capacitor to take the high frequency "noise" out of your
electrical lines. There is anecdotal evidence that such filters have
dramatically improved people's health.

Marc




Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello Marc,

www.bioprotect.de.vu

I wear it everyday, and my wife wears it in her shoe.
A lot of people are satisfied with it.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 02:22
Subject: Re: [eSens] longitudinal ?

[hidden email] wrote:
> Hallo, Wille,
> your questions ...
>
>These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light
>impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on
>this und wrote quite a few books ...
>
Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of the
"New Age" scientist that publish plenty of books?

I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community,
that's why i strike hard against "none science".

>
>While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding
of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of water.
>
I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops
(almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz signals
are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water?

>
> How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure the
> present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and measure
> again and see the difference.
>
It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the
mobile when the field is strong enough!

---

Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got
himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential differences
between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between
ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in the
environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above.

In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both
Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist!

It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d o
affect human beings.

Anders Eriksson

Hello,

running around with a meter is not the same as using measuring technique.

With measuring technique it is important to know how to hold the measuring
meter.
Is an earth line required?
Should the meter be hold tight against the body, or at arms length?
Are the surroundings in calculated?

With a mV meter, how sensitive it may be, one cannot measure high frequency
electromagnetic fields.
For hf EMF special meters are required.
An electroacupuncture equipment is not an e-meter (in this sense).

And with all the meters we have nowadays, one can only measure the
transversal waves, NOT the longitudinal waves, or Tesla waves, or whatever
name we give them.
We can only measure their influence on the human body, by other measuring
equipment.
For instance with electro acupuncture.
Even electro acupuncture is not commonly accepted as a scientific means.

There are more people who have studied and made some theories, which are not
yet accepted by the *unbelieveable* community, because it does not fit into
the present theories.
There was a time that the earth was completely flat!
Among those people was a certain Wilhelm Reich, who put his theories for
discussion.
*Orgon* is something many do not believe in. But we made *Orgon* blankets,
who function very well.
We have made *Orgon* accumulators that function also very well.
I now have a life energy meter, with which I can measure the bioenergy of
people, plants and things.
I have a read-out on a display.
I measure the difference in water samples. Before and after I place this
sample on a Purple Plate, I find a raise in bioenergy afterwards.
There is no *peer-review* on the working of a Purple Plate, but I can
measure it.

With my RFI measuring system, I can measure the working of an australian
T-shirt. It positively improves the aura of the bearer. I can measure the
auras on 40 points of the body, although many people do not believe that
they exist.

I just wanted to show, that there are many things around us, that are not
scientifically proved, but that nevertheless exist.

Officially, electrosensible people cannot exist, but nevertheless they
suffer enormously.
One cannot hear, or feel, or taste, or see the electrosmog surrounding us,
but our body reacts to it.
By some more than others.

My point is, that everybody should ask him/herself: *What am I measuring at
the moment?*
There can be influences at work, we do not know about, but can have an
impact on the measuring results.
A doctor once said: *Electrosmog? When I hold a Voltmeter in the air, I
measure nothing! So electrosmog does not exist.*
With a normal Voltmeter, one cannot measure the temperature of a patient
also. One needs therefore a thermometer, which is quite different from a
Voltmeter.
Most electriciens do have a Voltmeter, with which they measure AC, DC, Amps
and Ohms, which have all to do with electric fields. But when you ask them
about magnetic fields, they are flabbergasted.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "Anders Eriksson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:14
Subject: Re: [eSens] longitudinal ?

measure

Dear folks,

Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with
the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the
adjacent building,
third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There
were about 26
individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz
frequencies.

We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one
which worked
best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It
blocked all detectable
RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2).

The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The
weight of the water
was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think
something like
continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But
the logistics
were daunting. We finally moved.

One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF
shielding curtain
material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT..

If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source
building,
and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the
RF just comes
in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of "solution"
really needs thinking
thru.

Cindy Sage
Sage Associates



On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders Eriksson wrote:

Cindy Sage wrote:
Interesting, but as you already figured out: not so convenient!

Grounding is completely irrelevant when we talks about frequencies above
a few MHz!

Grounding might be of interest to reduce low frequency electrical fields.

>
> If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source
> building,
> and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the
> RF just comes
> in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of "solution"
> really needs thinking
> thru.
>
Very true!

Anders Eriksson

charles wrote:

Sorry Charles, I can't remember anything about measuring high frequency
with that mV-meter! As I recall it, i talked about measuring potential
differences between tooth's (in this case, not mentioned earlier, DC). I
said absolutely nothing about HF!

> For hf EMF special meters are required.
> An electroacupuncture equipment is not an e-meter (in this sense).

OOPS! Dietrich Grün used the expression e-meter, and I continued to use
the same expression to avoid confusion! It obviously didn't work out!
I guess it woks for believers!

Yes, I do believe that there are some energy fields (aura) around living
things. I am curios about your RFI measuring system. Please tell me (us)
more about it!
>
> I just wanted to show, that there are many things around us, that are not
> scientifically proved, but that nevertheless exist.

Do they (;-) exist?
>
> Officially, electrosensible people cannot exist, but nevertheless they
> suffer enormously.

I am quite aware about that. Tell me about it, I have been through a lot.
But it is necessary to approach the problem in a scientific way, not
just try to sell as much expensive "New Age stuff" with doubtful
effects. If you are seriously harmed by EM-fields then cognitive
therapies and beliefs is of no use.

> One cannot hear, or feel, or taste, or see the electrosmog surrounding us,
> but our body reacts to it.
> By some more than others.
>
> My point is, that everybody should ask him/herself: *What am I measuring at
> the moment?*
> There can be influences at work, we do not know about, but can have an
> impact on the measuring results.

Very true! I have a friend (believe it or not, but I have got friends)
who gets a serious migraine for three days starting the day after when
she got exposure from fields she cant handle.

> A doctor once said: *Electrosmog? When I hold a Voltmeter in the air, I
> measure nothing! So electrosmog does not exist.*

I get sad to hear this but I am sure it's true.

> With a normal Voltmeter, one cannot measure the temperature of a patient
> also. One needs therefore a thermometer, which is quite different from a
> Voltmeter.
> Most electriciens do have a Voltmeter, with which they measure AC, DC, Amps
> and Ohms, which have all to do with electric fields. But when you ask them
> about magnetic fields, they are flabbergasted.

---

What I actually was trying to say in one of my resent postings was that
instruments made for use in e.g. measuring DC-currents can be influenced
from EM-fields from a mobile and therefore the readout might be totally
wrong if you don't take the interaction from HF-radiation in consider.

Anders Eriksson

> The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application.
> We finally moved.

When I had a problem with my workplace, I solved it with
stuff from Quantum Products (http://www.quantumproducts.com).
For example, the Quantum Pro is supposed to clean up everything
for about a 50 foot radius. This stuff was really helpful
for my recovery, although I'm only just using their powerstrip
anymore.

Marc

Hi all,

There is a discussion going on at the Bioharmonics website, which has
essentially turned into a disagreement between myself and the person in
charge of the company. Basically, it seems to be her opinion that most
of the EMF devices available today are harmful to people's health --
except hers, of course. My opinion is that I agree that her devices (the
Springlife Polarizers) are good, but that shouldn't rule out that they
may be even better used in combination with other devices. For example,
I have found that while the Springlife Polarizers seem to be a complete
solution for most environments, I find that they could use some help with
large screen CRT monitors (note that they seem fine for LCD monitors).
Anyway, if anyone wants to read (or participate) in this discussion, here
is a link:

http://forums.bioharmonics.com/index.php?showtopic=22

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they delete some of my posts!
(after all, it might hurt their business)

Marc