re.Quantum Pro

This discussion shows that the real nature of electrosmog is not properly
understood and that often those, who understand it, use phrases of explanation
that sound like nonsense.

I repeatedly in this list have tried to explain this, evidently with almost
no effect.

To say it in short: Electromagnetic waves consist always of two kinds of
waves, the transversal ones we can easily measure and the longitudinal onesor
scalar waves disvcoered by Nicola Tesla, which so far we can only measure through
their effect on biological organisms. These scalar waves are responsible for
all the negative biological effects people experience when exposed to EMF.
They can be used for healing also, if one knows how.

There is a very simple experiment that indicates the existence of these
waves. Using a mobile while measauring with electroacupuncture you can see a
negative effect on the acupuncture system that persists even when you put the mobile
off again. These EMF you can measure simultaneously with an ordinary meter
for these frequencies. Now you put an electrosmog neutralizing device on the
mobile and put it on again. The negative effect in electroacupuncture disappears
but the reading of your meter remains exactly the same. From this one has to
draw two conclusions. First the waves you can mesaure with your meter are not
the ones responsible for the negative biological effect of the microwaves of
the mobile. They are still there unchanged, but the negative biological effect
has disappeared. From this you must draw the second conclusion: there must be
another kind of waves that are not registered by the ordinary meter, a kindof
waves biological organisms are sensitiv to. And these waves are influenced by
the device.

If you would do the second experiment without the e-smog neutralizer on the
mobile, you would find an added negative effect of about the same strength as
the first that even would further increase if the phone call lasts longer than
30 seconds.

Now, since in electroacupuncture I could measaure these peculiar waves
through their negative effect, I could do a little experimenting to find out some
more of their properties. First, they pass any metallic shielding. Second they
are absorbed by a layer of water of about 1 inch. Third, they are no longer
biological negative with a crystal on the mobile, quarz, turmalin, salt-crystal.
They are not absorbed by this, as I thought first. There are many more
properties I could find out. These might be discussed later.

With this basic knowledge one will understand many biological phenomena that
are caused by EMF. And most important on will find effective and
anderstandible ways to neutralize electrosmog.

Dietrich Gruen



Here is what they say the Quantum Pro does:
    
     "When you plug the Quantum Pro™ in any electrical outlet in your home,

I sent that quote to an electrical power quality expert, who replied:
     "I personally do not see how this is possible.  I would like them to
produce waveforms of what is on the lines before the use of their device
without the 50 or 60 cycle and then after their device is plugged in. 
Then we all wll know if it is BS or fact."

     If the Quantum Pro somehow converts all the various frequencies that
constitute electrical pollution into one continuous wave, then the measurable

result will be just that, just one wave, of one frequency.    That would be
60
Hz. in the US.
     Their Web site provides no such oscilloscope waveform, though, just
words.
     I notice that makers of products supposed to somehow "make it better"
use phrases like "polarize the current," "harmonize the current," etcetera.  

These phrases have no technical meaning whatsoever.   
     Has anyone on this list checked with an oscilloscope the waveform on the

line after the Quantum Pro is plugged in?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dietrich, that's very interesting. I take it this means you know (or are studying) how to use
scalar waves to reverse the negative effects of electrosmog on people? Via
electroacupuncture techniques? I will not be able to understand a very technical explanation,
but if you can say more in very simple terms, I am interested in how you dothis while also
avoiding the negative effects. Perhaps say a little more about the general principles involved.

I apologize if I have missed a previous discussion of this. I am able to spend only limited time
at the computer.

~ Cara

--- In [hidden email], Gruendg@a... wrote:

> To say it in short: Electromagnetic waves consist always of two kinds of
> waves, the transversal ones we can easily measure and the longitudinal ones or
> scalar waves disvcoered by Nicola Tesla, which so far we can only measurethrough
> their effect on biological organisms. These scalar waves are responsible for
> all the negative biological effects people experience when exposed to EMF.
> They can be used for healing also, if one knows how.

Cara wrote:
> Dietrich, that's very interesting. I take it this means you know (or are studying) how to use
> scalar waves to reverse the negative effects of electrosmog on people? Via
> electroacupuncture techniques?

Electroacupuncure is a method of diagnosis, where you can measure
the health of individual organs and bodily functions in realtime.
You can then test remedies (nutritional supplements, EMF devices,
etc.) and see if they counteract any problems or bring the body
to a greater state of health.

My nutritionist uses this to determine what supplements my body
is currently in need of. She also uses this to determine that
Inositol was the "antidote" to my negative reaction to my new
ID badge at work. The biggest problem with this method of
testing is that you still have to me smart enough to have
the correct remedy on-hand, and know to try it. Also, it really
only works best on current issues, so you may find that when
you leave the doctor's office and go back home or to work, you
really need something else to stay in balance in that
environment.

However, it's still a better method of diagnosis than many
more commonly used methods, in my opinion...

Marc

>>Has anyone on this list checked with an oscilloscope the waveform on the
>>
>>line after the Quantum Pro is plugged in?


I understand what you say, Dr. Gruen...
Anyway, as far as I understood Marc, Quantum pro has objective effects (to
TV reception for example) and therefore should be excluded from the other
similar devices...
By the way, there are other devices with similar effect like yours, that do
show biological effects despites having no measurable physical effecvts.

Drasko



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi,

Thanks Dietrich.

Marc are you asked to bring all supplements and devises you are using, or just try out new ones?? Found in a similar testing method (she (the only registered doctor i have seen since this happened it was some diagnostics that worked by testing the chakras) had electroacupunture as well but was scared even though i said bring it on.. was very sensitive back then and her method worked fine) that without the supplements i would have needed a load of the homeopathic remedies she tested with, while only two remained when testing it with my tachyon and preferred supplements..

Love and Light

Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Cara wrote:
> Dietrich, that's very interesting. I take it this means you know (or are studying) how to use
> scalar waves to reverse the negative effects of electrosmog on people? Via
> electroacupuncture techniques?

Electroacupuncure is a method of diagnosis, where you can measure
the health of individual organs and bodily functions in realtime.
You can then test remedies (nutritional supplements, EMF devices,
etc.) and see if they counteract any problems or bring the body
to a greater state of health.

My nutritionist uses this to determine what supplements my body
is currently in need of. She also uses this to determine that
Inositol was the "antidote" to my negative reaction to my new
ID badge at work. The biggest problem with this method of
testing is that you still have to me smart enough to have
the correct remedy on-hand, and know to try it. Also, it really
only works best on current issues, so you may find that when
you leave the doctor's office and go back home or to work, you
really need something else to stay in balance in that
environment.

However, it's still a better method of diagnosis than many
more commonly used methods, in my opinion...

Marc


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "eSens" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------



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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Dietrich,

Thank you for this careful and sensible explanation of your findings.
I have no doubt that there is much information that you have gained, but
not included in your message. Can you tell us if you have performed the
same experiment with these variations:

1] Change the sequence of exposure. Namely, with "neutralizer" on first,
then off, then on again. Most often, biometric testing is reported in the
sequence of bad, good, bad. I wonder if the results would be changed if
the sequence was changed.

2] Have you performed the testing in a double-blind fashion? Meaning that
both the subject and the observer do not know if the neutralizer is on or
not.

3] Have you performed the tests with false information to the subject and
observer? Meaning that both are given randomly true/false information
about whether the phone is turned on or not, and if the neutralizer is
attached or not.

4] Have you tried the experiment when neither the subject nor the tester
has any information about status of radiation or neutralization?

Emil


Emil DeToffol
Less EMF Inc.
tel: +1-518-432-1550
fax: +1-309-422-4355

> Marc are you asked to bring all supplements and devises
> you are using, or just try out new ones??

I bring in whatever supplements and devices I want. She
tries to make all the meridians balance with what I
bring in, but if that doesn't work, then she starts
trying stuff that she has on her shelves.

But of course, there are thousands of supplements in
the world, and you can't be tested on them all in a
one-hour appointment, so some educated guesses
have to be made by me about what to bring in, and also
by her on what supplements on her shelf should be tried.

And like I said, whatever combination of supplements
and devices that work in her office are not necessarily
going to work at my home or place of work, but at least
its a good starting point for me to experiment further.

Marc

Hopefully I may interject my comments into some of Emil's questions
for Dietrich...

> 1] Change the sequence of exposure. Namely, with "neutralizer" on first,
> then off, then on again. Most often, biometric testing is reported in the
> sequence of bad, good, bad. I wonder if the results would be changed if
> the sequence was changed.

This is an interesting point. I have found myself that while some
of these devices work great while you are exposed to a computer monitor
or something nasty, when you then go outside on the street and have
no major EMF exposure, the device makes you feel worse than you
might otherwise feel than if you didn't have it on at all. Therefore,
some devices need to be left near the computer, and not taken with
you.

> 2] Have you performed the testing in a double-blind fashion? Meaning that
> both the subject and the observer do not know if the neutralizer is on or
> not.

I have (on many occasions over the past 5 years) been using a computer
with a false assumption about me using (or not) a certain device, only
to find that after some time has passed (usually 30 minutes), that I
start feeling unusually bad. Then I check my devices, and discover that
I'm not using what I thought I was using, and then correct the situation.
These kinds of experiences rule out the "placebo effect" for me...

Marc

> was very sensitive back then and her method worked fine) that without
> the supplements i would have needed a load of the homeopathic remedies
> she tested with, while only two remained when testing it with my tachyon
> and preferred supplements..

Oh yes, one more thing...

Certainly the goal is to minimize the number of supplements you need
to take, or perhaps the cost of the supplements. However, different
practitioners vary in their ability to minimize supplements. One
practitioner had me taking 30 supplements all at once, so in frustration
I went to someone else who found an equivalent solution with 6
supplements. I suspect that if we were testing every supplement
and food known to mankind, we could probably get it down to 1 or
2 things, but 6-8 will have to do for now... :-)

Also, I have found that when I'm tested with a Springlife Polarizer
placed on the testing pad, that the number of supplements needed is
smaller than without it. Since there is no recurring cost for the
Springlife Polarizer, in the long run this is cheaper than buying
more supplements.

Marc

--- In [hidden email], Gruendg@a... wrote:
>Do not get me wrong. I find your discussion to be very fascinating
and interesting. However, I think I do see some flaw in your logic.  
It is always a very dangerous assumption when one assumes that we
know everything already. There are surely an unlimited number of
factors that have never been discovered and when they are could
explain the phenomena that you are witnessing with the crystals. You
can not jump to the conclusion that scalar waves explain this.
>
> This discussion shows that the real nature of electrosmog is not
properly
> understood and that often those, who understand it, use phrases of
explanation
> that sound like nonsense.
>
> I repeatedly in this list have tried to explain this, evidently
with almost
> no effect.
>
> To say it in short: Electromagnetic waves consist always of two
kinds of
> waves, the transversal ones we can easily measure and the
longitudinal ones or
> scalar waves disvcoered by Nicola Tesla, which so far we can only
measure through
> their effect on biological organisms. These scalar waves are
responsible for
> all the negative biological effects people experience when exposed
to EMF.
> They can be used for healing also, if one knows how.
>
> There is a very simple experiment that indicates the existence of
these
> waves. Using a mobile while measauring with electroacupuncture you
can see a
> negative effect on the acupuncture system that persists even when
you put the mobile
> off again. These EMF you can measure simultaneously with an
ordinary meter
> for these frequencies. Now you put an electrosmog neutralizing
device on the
> mobile and put it on again. The negative effect in
electroacupuncture disappears
> but the reading of your meter remains exactly the same. From this
one has to
> draw two conclusions. First the waves you can mesaure with your
meter are not
> the ones responsible for the negative biological effect of the
microwaves of
> the mobile. They are still there unchanged, but the negative
biological effect
> has disappeared. From this you must draw the second conclusion:
there must be
> another kind of waves that are not registered by the ordinary
meter, a kind of
> waves biological organisms are sensitiv to. And these waves are
influenced by
> the device.
>
> If you would do the second experiment without the e-smog
neutralizer on the
> mobile, you would find an added negative effect of about the same
strength as
> the first that even would further increase if the phone call lasts
longer than
> 30 seconds.
>
> Now, since in electroacupuncture I could measaure these peculiar
waves
> through their negative effect, I could do a little experimenting to
find out some
> more of their properties. First, they pass any metallic shielding.
Second they
> are absorbed by a layer of water of about 1 inch. Third, they are
no longer
> biological negative with a crystal on the mobile, quarz, turmalin,
salt-crystal.
> They are not absorbed by this, as I thought first. There are many
more
> properties I could find out. These might be discussed later.
>
> With this basic knowledge one will understand many biological
phenomena that in your home,
> > this one small appliance, using the principle of constructive
> > interference, coordinates the entire flow of the electrical
currents
> > and* transforms your electricity into one coherent wave.*
> > Your electricity fluctuates back and forth at sixty (or in some
cases
> > fifty) cycles per second. The Quantum Pro™, acting like a
conductor,
> > is the* intelligent time keeper* who keeps the electricity
flowing in
> > perfect harmony to create a beautifully tuned-up system inside the
> > walls of your home.
> > Now all your appliances flow together to create greater harmony in
> > your home. And it’s all coordinated automatically by one small
> > appliance that doesn’t do anything but help all the others be
more
> > coherent. Now you feel better and get things done more easily."
>
>
> I sent that quote to an electrical power quality expert, who
replied:
>      "I personally do not see how this is possible.  I would
like them to
> produce waveforms of what is on the lines before the use of their
device
> without the 50 or 60 cycle and then after their device is plugged
in. 
> Then we all wll know if it is BS or fact."
>
>      If the Quantum Pro somehow converts all the various
frequencies that
> constitute electrical pollution into one continuous wave, then the
measurable
>
> result will be just that, just one wave, of one frequency.   
That would be
> 60
> Hz. in the US.
>      Their Web site provides no such oscilloscope waveform,
though, just
> words.
>      I notice that makers of products supposed to somehow "make
it better"
> use phrases like "polarize the current," "harmonize the current,"
etcetera.  
>
> These phrases have no technical meaning whatsoever.   
>      Has anyone on this list checked with an oscilloscope the
waveform on the
>
> line after the Quantum Pro is plugged in?
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

OK guys,
I am going to give some people info regarding the radiation dangers of
wireless internet.
Please forward me links, articles, whatever you got that will
discourage them from installing WiFi.
thank you!
Andrew

Here some links:

Is WiFi dangerous?
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/762705/

Wi-Fi, Health Care, and HIPAA: WLAN Management in the Modern Hospital
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/461735/

Wi-Fi mobilize your Chromosomes in Hospital
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/245599/

School sued for installing a wireless computer network
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1121957/

Suit alleges health risks of Wi-Fi
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1121968/

Health effects associated with mobile base stations in communities
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1121978/ 


Best!
Klaus



Andrew McAfee schrieb:

Hello Andrew,

on http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina112f.html
I have placed 4 studies.
They are all in german, but nevertheless, the figures speak for themselves.

In the praxis, I regard, in upgoing order regarding radiation levels and
inside the house, or coming from neighbours:
1. mobile phone masts
2. DECT cordless phones
3. wireless internet

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew McAfee" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 05:46
Subject: [eSens] wireless info

Mr. Gruen,



Your message is very interesting indeed.

Is there any work / research going on about the effects of scalar waves on
biological organisms? Could you please send some links / resources on this?



Thanks.



Sayat Arslanlioglu

Thank you!
On Nov 5, 2005, at 3:34 AM, Redaktion Buergerwelle e.V. (BI Omega-CI
Omega) wrote:

It is certainly true to be a dangerous assumption to know already everything.
Those saying there are only transversal waves and longitudinal waves do not
exist just do this. And the majoritiy of physicists just do this.

I was using a purely experimental approach, because I was curious about
electrosmog an had the means to measure its biological effect. It was only later
that I searched out the results of other researchers. While doing my experiments
I certainly tried to explain the findings and several times these
explanations were wrong or incomplete as later results did teach me. This is an adventure
and it is exiting. But after some time some basic thruths appear that also
had been discovered long before by other scientists; I just rediscovered them by
my own means, an this gives me the conviction to be on the right path.

Stating the effect of a crystal neutralizing electrosmog is through the
scalar waves is just a shortcut. I do not want to write a whole book in this list,
that no one would have the time to read. I just mentioned it, because it isa
simple and rather cheap way ot influence e-smog. For ES-people this in most
cases would not be enough. But some people in this list in the past have
reported encouraging results from using crystals including himalayan salt.

dietrich



n einer eMail vom 04.11.2005 19:49:38 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
[hidden email]:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is certainly true to be a dangerous assumption to know already everything.
Those saying there are only transversal waves and longitudinal waves do not
exist just do this. And the majoritiy of physicists just do this.

I was using a purely experimental approach, because I was curious about
electrosmog an had the means to measure its biological effect. It was only later
that I searched out the results of other researchers. While doing my experiments
I certainly tried to explain the findings and several times these
explanations were wrong or incomplete as later results did teach me. This is an adventure
and it is exiting. But after some time some basic thruths appear that also
had been discovered long before by other scientists; I just rediscovered them by
my own means, an this gives me the conviction to be on the right path.

Stating the effect of a crystal neutralizing electrosmog is through the
scalar waves is just a shortcut. I do not want to write a whole book in this list,
that no one would have the time to read. I just mentioned it, because it isa
simple and rather cheap way ot influence e-smog. For ES-people this in most
cases would not be enough. But some people in this list in the past have
reported encouraging results from using crystals including himalayan salt.

dietrich



n einer eMail vom 04.11.2005 19:49:38 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
[hidden email]:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,
the sources I know are all in german. www.k-meyl.de is the homepage of Prof.
Meyl who sells also e experimental kit that creates longitudinal waves. I did
some very interesting experiments with this, especially to use these scalar
waves for healing. Another researcher is Prof Ulrich Warnke from the university
Saarbrücken/Germany. As far as I know, the basic work of Prof. Meyl is also
available in english, a rather thik book.

Dietrich Gruen



[hidden email]: wrote

> Your message is very interesting indeed.
>
> Is there any work / research going on about the effects of scalar waves on
> biological organisms? Could you please send some links / resources on this?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Drasko,

if the Quantum pro would not influence the scalar waves, it would not help.
That you even on an oscillosope can see some change is something new for me. I
will have to try to verify this with other devices. At least there is one
single report so far of a person using bioprotect on her PC with the results of
significant less brake downs. She tried this off and on for about 10 days and
had only one third of the usual brake downs with the bioprotect card on the PC.

dietrich

[hidden email] wrote 4..1.05



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In einer eMail vom 04.11.2005 15:48:01 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
[hidden email]:


Testing I start always checking the actual situation of the meridian system
and then expose to the mobile or whatever EMF and measure during and after
exposure. Some EMF produce an negative effect that persists for hours like the
mobile phone, the effect of a normal light bulb disappears again when switching
off the light.

>
> 2] Have you performed the testing in a double-blind fashion? Meaning that
> both the subject and the observer do not know if the neutralizer is on or
> not.


Systematic double blind testing so far has not been done. This is a method of
approach that completely blocks out the conciousness of the persons involved.
It works with purely materialistic and mechanistic items of research. I know
of researches on homoeopathy, acupuncture and others in double blind fashion
that all failed. But everyone knows that these methods work, exept some extreme
stubborn minds. Single blind tests have been done unvoluntarily a lot, where
someone not knowing bioprotect was applied felt the difference. Working on
mobile masts for my patients which had trouble in the vicinity of these masts, I
always did not tell ahead the day of action, but my patients could tell.
In one case one person used this device wrongly but believing it would work,
and was amazed that there was no positive effect, she had experienced before
while using it correctly.

Double blind test is very artificial and has nothing to do with how these
things are used in real life.

>
> 3] Have you performed the tests with false information to the subject and
> observer? Meaning that both are given randomly true/false information
> about whether the phone is turned on or not, and if the neutralizer is
> attached or not.


No, this setting has nothing to do with the practical situation in daily
life. If you got a car in your garage, but dont know you got one, you will not get
anywhere. What does this prove?
But from a certain scientific viewpoint your question is correct.

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT>
> 4] Have you tried the experiment when neither the subject nor the tester
> has any information about status of radiation or neutralization?
>


No not purposely. A electrosensitive person usually feels it when exposed to
EMF often not knowing what the cause of the complaint is. And I have seen the
complaint disappear myself not knowing the person and the person not knowing
me or what I did. But I knew, what I did. And the person approached me months
later and could tell me what time I neutralizied the mast and what time I
removed the neutralizer again.

In science you always can ask for more and more complicated ways of proof, if
you just dont want to acceopt the phenomenon. This is exactly the way the
discussion about health effects of EMF and especially mobile phones is donesince
years. And while people in the vicinity of phome masts die of cancer, still
there is the opinion of highly reknown scientist, nothing is proven.
Dietrich



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]