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I have just found out recently that I have heavy metal toxicity too. I am doing better with my electrical sensivitivy since my doctor has put me onsupplements and has identified that I have a number of allergies includinga gluten sensitivity. Also, the transformer is underneath my bedroom sowe keep the power off at night and that has helped alot. She mentioned OSR as a chelator for my heavy metals. Does anyone know about it and hasit been effective?
Heather [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> She mentioned OSR as a chelator for my heavy metals. Does anyone know
> about it and has it been effective? OSR is fairly new, and so far the results I've seen have been mixed. Some people do report improvements, but others see no difference, and some have bad reactions (for example, every time I have tried to take OSR, I come down with the flu -- I've heard some say this is a GOOD thing, as my body may be dealing with chronic low level viruses, but I'm not convinced that having the flu is a good thing). Heavy metal chelation is difficult if your organs cannot take it -- in my case, I think my adrenals were simply too weak to be chelating heavy metals, and I've done pretty well lately by simply focusing on supporting my adrenals, kidneys, and liver. Marc |
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Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead?
Thanks! Amy ________________________________ From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 5:11:18 PM Subject: Re: [eSens] RE: > She mentioned OSR as a chelator for my heavy metals. Does anyone know > about it and has it been effective? OSR is fairly new, and so far the results I've seen have been mixed. Some people do report improvements, but others see no difference, and some have bad reactions (for example, every time I have tried to take OSR, I come down with the flu -- I've heard some say this is a GOOD thing, as my body may be dealing with chronic low level viruses, but I'm not convinced that having the flu is a good thing). Heavy metal chelation is difficult if your organs cannot take it -- in my case, I think my adrenals were simply too weak to be chelating heavy metals, and I've done pretty well lately by simply focusing on supporting my adrenals, kidneys, and liver. Marc ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver?
There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called "Standard Process", and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated). > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I know about is called "adult-metal-chelation". I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc |
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Hi Amy,
I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and see" seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called "Standard Process", and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated). > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I know about is called "adult-metal-chelation". I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi Ian,
What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning quite severely; was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only in my mid 30's at that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at times but in the long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died without it as I was so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know now! Thanks, Cheryl --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and see" seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called "Standard Process", and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I know about is called "adult-metal- chelation" . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from
> metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc |
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I totally agree.
I don't think a detox should be done unless the lipid/fats and other cell wall factors (intestinal wall, blood brain barrier, etc) are strengthened to stop the cross contamination from the metals/chemicals/ toxins floating around. Until I hear otherwise OSR is the best chelator that has the strongest bond mercury and won't drop it/spread it around. Everyone is immersed in chemicals/mercury and it is packed away in our deep tissues/bones. Just getting it out of our mouths is huge and should be done before any detox regime per the Huggins Protocol. A way after that, going slow, like a 2 year detox is the best bet rather than a month or two. 1) Rebuild cell walls first by eating organic, full fat grass fed meats, organic fruit/veggies, etc for at least 3-4 months while supplementing with Krill Oil (Mercola.com) is a minimum before any detox chelators are added. Repair the gut by going gluten free if needed and absolutely no MSG, Aspartame, Genetically mod food like Soy, Corn, Canola, etc. Eat lots of organic coconut and other good fats. my 2 cents, Andrew On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Marc Martin wrote: >> What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered >> from >> metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a >> question. >> How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver >> from the >> metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking >> liver >> cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get > mineral > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the > exposure to > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and > kidneys, > which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) > should help > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead > try to > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and > kidneys. > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. > > Marc > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi again, Amy and Marc,
I focused on those too--liver, kidney, and adrenals, Amy; along with the lymphatics in general. And I have the same thing when I chelate, Marc. I wonder tho whether I am actually stirring up viruses or whether that is just the results you get when you over chelate. I felt like I had the flu for years and docs called it "CFS/ME". I came to believe that CFS was not a viral problem, but caused by all the side-effects of crap circling round and round in my system trying to get out! After I went gf, addressed nutritional and gut flora problems, worked on my liver, kidneys, adrenals, and lymphs..... my CFS went away. (Actually my CFS responded much earlier than all of this--after I had addressed nutritional deficiency and gut flora and got my lymphatic system moving again.) Same was true of my dxed fibromyalgia. It was directly caused by gluten intolerance and the lymphatic problems I had because of that. And it actually took less work to clear up than the CFS. (I am still working at MCS and EMS.) Diane --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] RE: To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 6:11 PM > She mentioned OSR as a chelator for my heavy metals. Does anyone know > about it and has it been effective? OSR is fairly new, and so far the results I've seen have been mixed. Some people do report improvements, but others see no difference, and some have bad reactions (for example, every time I have tried to take OSR, I come down with the flu -- I've heard some say this is a GOOD thing, as my body may be dealing with chronic low level viruses, but I'm not convinced that having the flu is a good thing). Heavy metal chelation is difficult if your organs cannot take it -- in my case, I think my adrenals were simply too weak to be chelating heavy metals, and I've done pretty well lately by simply focusing on supporting my adrenals, kidneys, and liver. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi again, Amy, and Ian
I agree with all that Ian has said here, Amy. It is useless to chelate until your body is strong enough to do it and your liver and lymphatic system are working fairly well. I wrote about recovering from CFS and FM, but what I didn't tell you was it took over a decade to do it. AndI made huge mistakes all along the way, some of those mistakes being doing things out of order and then having to address all the fall-out from that. You need to talk over your situation with your doctor and make an overall plan. If your doctor doesn't see this as necessary then hehas not done enough research yet. He needs to get up to speed. I went to a very EMS knowledgeable homeopath this past winter. He hadhis standard plan which he was going to use for me. It didn't work--his standard plan included the "crash and burn" mentality of over-detoxing and not dealing effectively with the consequences. Your doctor needs to be aware that that will not work for you. It could be tho that this doctor does have a plan that deals with getting toxins out and getting you built up, but he wants tests to see what he is dealing with first. (But it sounds like he perhaps is not realistic in the type of testing he thinks you can handle. Some mainstream docs refuse to do hair analysisand the like.) Btw, I remember why my heavy metals test failed the first time--my metals were in my organs and bone marrow and I had to have molybdenum to leach the metals out into my blood stream so they could be measured. This was prior to my realizing I had a molybdenum deficiency caused by my gf diet. Be well, dear; I hope this doc works for you, Diane --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:08 PM Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and see" seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called "Standard Process", and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I know about is called "adult-metal- chelation" . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Cheryl Griffing-2
Hi Cheryl,
I think it can cut both ways. If you have severe heavy metal poisoning it can run down other parts of the body including liver and adrenals. Conversely, if the liver, adrenals and immune system are already weak, the body can start reacting to modest levels of chemicals, heavy metals, EMF etc. I think the second is more common, but that's just gut feel. Generally it seems to me as if our bodies are amazingly tolerant and robust, and it takes several things together to give problems. Standard "liver cleansing supplements" may help and should certainly do no harm (except to your pocket). However, if you're eating a healthy diet, taking lots of supplements but are still seriously ill or going downhill, then there must surely be some other major underlying root cause (gut, liver, mercury etc). Finding it is the difficult bit - which is chicken and which is egg. My wife Sue reacted badly to having 4 small mercury fillings removed and developed MCS and ES soon after. However, the amount involved was quite small and would probably not have been a problem if she hadn't already been ill from undiagnosed liver and gut problems. Also low thyroid, which may have been a consequence rather than a cause. Standard liver supplements hadn't been enough - more concentrated treatment was needed and has helped her significantly, so that the ES is manageable and MCS only a problem if she gets a sudden high exposure. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cheryl Griffing Sent: 15 November 2009 07:37 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals Hi Ian, What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning quite severely; was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only in my mid 30's at that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at times but in the long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died without it as I was so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know now! Thanks, Cheryl --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM Hi Amy, I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful with chelation. Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the symptoms because the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the liver. Adrenal fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with MCS, ME, chronic fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag is that if you try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver in particular may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by chelation and it can even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of more extensive protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or activated charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are released. But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen your system first, so that you can cope better with chelation if it's necessary. The snag is that the underlying causes are often different for different people, and so what helps one person may not help another. In previous messages various people have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver metabolic pathways not working so that the body can't process certain chemicals. There's even an (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing liver function genes (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how to interpret the test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely helped by glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but there are other supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and see" seems the best way with most of these things at the moment. So far I don't think anyone in the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues and how they interact, although some doctors, people and groups are certainly a lot further along than others. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, kidneys and liver? There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will help various organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what they tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. Also, different doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and also there are things available at health food stores or online that are different than what doctors tend to use. Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well with a doctors brand called "Standard Process", and they make a variety of supplements which support a variety of organs. For example: Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF Betafood, Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating various foods which support detox (depending on what you are willing to eat and can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, garlic, eggs, kale, beets. And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are getting enough salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably unchlorinated) . > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy metal test and > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing as well as > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so fatigued and weak, I > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. Are those tests > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do instead? There are certainly some who would say that provocation tests and IV chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If your body cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed into your system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you worse, and it may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There are alternate tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral tests and urine porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one simple test for heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy metal chelator and see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it pretty much an indicator of toxicity. The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I know about is called "adult-metal- chelation" . I view this group with a bit of skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one specific way, and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as good to me. They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which involves using a few known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic Acid) in small amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours in 3-day rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have bad reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some of the alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, cilantro, NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox organs and letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in such a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless things which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated charcoal or bentonite) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi Cheryl and Marc,
The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed by getting toxins out (ortrying to unsuccessfully), it uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic systemwill run better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one organof the lymphatics--the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus the overall lymphatic plumbing are also involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals can also use. Diane --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi Marc,
Thanks so much for the information. I am printing it out so I can keep referring to it and will take additional suppliments according to your advice. Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 9:06 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
What supplements etc. support the liver? Amy
________________________________ From: Evie <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 12:45:46 PM Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals Hi Cheryl and Marc, The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully), it uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one organ of the lymphatics--the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus the overall lymphatic plumbing are also involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals can also use. Diane --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
Thanks and I will print this out also. So much info to absorb all at one time! What is the difference between adrenal fatigue and adrenal disease? Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Evie <[hidden email]> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl and Marc, > > > > The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all > the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed > by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully) , it > uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes > deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. > Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then > you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes > outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body > dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). > Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in > several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and > helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, > the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster > toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run > better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one > organ of the lymphatics-- the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus > the overall lymphatic plumbing are also > > involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by > supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals > can also use. > > > > Diane > > > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > com> wrote: > > > > From: Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > com> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since > I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Amy Green
Hi again, Amy,
Calcium, Vit B5, CoQ10 are the 3 most important supplements for the adrenals and lymphatics as a whole. (Especially calcium AEP and pantethine, which is a more usable form of B5, and sublingual CoQ10.) I usedto have a list of all of the liver supplements which I misplaced and stillhaven't found. So I am doing this from memory.... All the B vits, molybdenum, selenium, chromium, CoQ10, sulphur, omega oils (don't remember specific ratios), essential fatty acids, most amino acids--L-Arginine, L-cysteine, L-Methionine, L-carnitine, taurine-- glutathione, lecithin, calcium, magnesium, vit C and vit A, Alpha lipoic acid, zinc, and I think Vit D and iron. Most of these are specifically for detox phases, and some are for restoring and rebuilding the liveritself. I found a multiple vit/min didn't cut it. I had to take upper limits of most of these when my liver was bad. So it was very pricey and took some doing to take 39 pills a day (which I had to slowly work up to). Diane --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Amy Green <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Amy Green <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:16 PM What supplements etc. support the liver? Amy ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 12:45:46 PM Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals Hi Cheryl and Marc, The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully) , it uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causesdeficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. Your adrenals thenhave little to keep them going. Then you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your bodydealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). Taking supplementsfor the liver helps the adrenals in several ways--the liver is part of thelymphatic system and helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one organ of the lymphatics-- the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus the overall lymphatic plumbing are also involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals can also use. Diane --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. com> wrote: From: Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. com> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have suffered from > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do have a question. > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver from the > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would taking liver > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the body will get mineral imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be the exposure to heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot keep the body in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver and kidneys, which will have more to do with properly functioning adrenals) should help all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and instead try to pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, and kidneys. Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs are further damaged by the extra metals circulating in their bloodstream. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Cheryl Griffing-2
Hi Cheryl,
Fatigue is what transpires from a short time span of deficiency. Disease is what might transpire from a long time span of deficiency. A.fatigue--can be easily addressed by nutrition but A disease might be permanent damage. My best to you, Diane --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Cheryl Griffing <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Cheryl Griffing <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:26 PM Hi Diane, Thanks and I will print this out also. So much info to absorb all at one time! What is the difference between adrenal fatigue and adrenal disease? Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote: > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl and Marc, > > > > The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system use all > the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is taxed > by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully) , it > uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes > deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your body. > Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. Then > you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and sometimes > outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your body > dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal toxins). > Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals in > several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic system and > helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does this, > the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the faster > toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will run > better as a result (but remember that the liver is only one > organ of the lymphatics-- the kidneys, skin, and lungs, plus > the overall lymphatic plumbing are also > > involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly by > supplying the body with more nutrients which the adrenals > can also use. > > > > Diane > > > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > com> wrote: > > > > From: Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > com> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since > I have suffered from > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I > do have a question. > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on > the liver from the > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > then would taking liver > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then the > body will get mineral > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not be > the exposure to > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that cannot > keep the body > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the liver > and kidneys, > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > adrenals) should help > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, and > instead try to > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, liver, > and kidneys. > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their organs > are further > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > bloodstream. > > > > Marc > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi Ian,
Thanks again for your help! Here is the bottom line for all my questions. I finally moved away from a power tower that I had lived 30 yards from for 30 years. I knew it was making me very ill so when I could finally afford to move I did. Now I am no better, 1 month after my move. My thyroid seems to be hyper again, for the first time in 2 years. I am losing weight and eating more. I am tired, especially in the morning. I generally felt better when I was away from home when I lived near the tower. I am wondering if living near a main street may be stressing my adrenals. I knew it may not have been the best choice to move to where I have moved but there were very few affordable homes on the market and I figured anything would be better than being near that power tower. My body has cooled down somewhat, as I was hot all the time before. I thinkmy problem may no longer be as much EMF caused as adrenal. What is your opinion on this? Much appreciated. Thanks. Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl, > > > > I think it can cut both ways. If you have severe heavy > metal poisoning it > > can run down other parts of the body including liver and > adrenals. > > Conversely, if the liver, adrenals and immune system are > already weak, the > > body can start reacting to modest levels of chemicals, > heavy metals, EMF > > etc. I think the second is more common, but that's > just gut feel. > > > > Generally it seems to me as if our bodies are amazingly > tolerant and robust, > > and it takes several things together to give problems. > Standard "liver > > cleansing supplements" may help and should certainly > do no harm (except to > > your pocket). However, if you're eating a healthy > diet, taking lots of > > supplements but are still seriously ill or going downhill, > then there must > > surely be some other major underlying root cause (gut, > liver, mercury etc). > > Finding it is the difficult bit - which is chicken and > which is egg. > > > > My wife Sue reacted badly to having 4 small mercury > fillings removed and > > developed MCS and ES soon after. However, the amount > involved was quite > > small and would probably not have been a problem if she > hadn't already been > > ill from undiagnosed liver and gut problems. Also low > thyroid, which may > > have been a consequence rather than a cause. Standard liver > supplements > > hadn't been enough - more concentrated treatment was > needed and has helped > > her significantly, so that the ES is manageable and MCS > only a problem if > > she gets a sudden high exposure. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. > com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Cheryl Griffing > > Sent: 15 November 2009 07:37 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > com > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have > suffered from > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do > have a question. How > > exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver > from the metal > > poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would > taking liver cleansing > > supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning > quite severely; > > was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only > in my mid 30's at > > that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at > times but in the > > long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died > without it as I was > > so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know > now! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Cheryl > > > > --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> > ukgateway.net> wrote: > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. > kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. > com> com > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM > > > > Hi Amy, > > > > I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful > with chelation. > > Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the > symptoms because > > the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the > liver. Adrenal > > fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with > MCS, ME, chronic > > fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag > is that if you > > try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver > in particular > > may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by > chelation and it can > > even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of > more extensive > > protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or > activated > > charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are > released. > > > > But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen > your system first, so > > that you can cope better with chelation if it's > necessary. The snag is that > > the underlying causes are often different for different > people, and so what > > helps one person may not help another. In previous messages > various people > > have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver > metabolic pathways not > > working so that the body can't process certain > chemicals. There's even an > > (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing > liver function genes > > (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how > to interpret the > > test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely > helped by > > glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but > there are other > > supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and > see" seems the best > > way with most of these things at the moment. So far I > don't think anyone in > > the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues > and how they > > interact, although some doctors, people and groups are > certainly a lot > > further along than others. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Marc > > Martin > > Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > > > > > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, > kidneys and liver? > > > > There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will > help various > > organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what > they > > tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. > Also, different > > doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and > also there > > are things available at health food stores or online that > are different > > than what doctors tend to use. > > > > Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well > with a doctors brand > > called "Standard Process", and they make a > variety of supplements which > > support a variety of organs. For example: > > > > Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG > > Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex > > Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF > Betafood, > > Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic > > > > Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating > various > > foods which support detox (depending on what you are > willing to eat and > > can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, > garlic, eggs, > > kale, beets. > > > > And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are > getting enough > > salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). > > > > As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably > unchlorinated) . > > > > > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy > metal test and > > > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing > as well as > > > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so > fatigued and weak, I > > > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. > Are those tests > > > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do > instead? > > > > There are certainly some who would say that provocation > tests and IV > > chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If > your body > > cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed > into your > > system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you > worse, and it > > may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There > are alternate > > tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral > tests and urine > > porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one > simple test for > > heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy > metal chelator and > > see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it > pretty much an > > indicator of toxicity. > > > > The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I > know about is > > called "adult-metal- chelation" . I view this > group with a bit of > > skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one > specific way, > > and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as > good to me. > > They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which > involves using a few > > known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic > Acid) in small > > amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours > in 3-day > > rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have > bad > > reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some > of the > > alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, > cilantro, > > NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox > organs and > > letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in > such > > a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless > things > > which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated > charcoal > > or bentonite) > > > > Marc > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
That may explain why I am not feeling better after moving away from a powertower that was only 30 yards from my home. I feared there may be permanentdamage done. However, I won't give up hope just yet as I did feel better recently while housesitting at a friends that was twice as far from the power tower and a wood-based mobile home instead of metal, as mine was. Thanks again for your help. Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Evie <[hidden email]> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl, > > > > Fatigue is what transpires from a short time span of > deficiency. Disease is what might transpire from a long > time span of deficiency. A.fatigue--can be easily > addressed by nutrition but A disease might be permanent > damage. > > > > My best to you, > > Diane > > > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Cheryl Griffing <cheryl_griffing@ > yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > From: Cheryl Griffing <cheryl_griffing@ > yahoo.com> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > com > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 2:26 PM > > > > > > > > Hi Diane, > > > > Thanks and I will print this out also. So much info to > absorb all at one time! > > > > What is the difference between adrenal fatigue and adrenal > disease? > > > > Cheryl > > > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> > wrote: > > > > > From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> > > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:45 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl and Marc, > > > > > > > > > > > > The adrenals and the organs of the lymphatic system > use all > > > the same nutrients. So when your lymphatic system is > taxed > > > by getting toxins out (or trying to unsuccessfully) , > it > > > uses huge reserves of nutrients which then causes > > > deficiency of those nutrients to the rest of your > body. > > > Your adrenals then have little to keep them going. > Then > > > you have the side-effect of adrenal fatigue and > sometimes > > > outright adrenal disease as a side-effect of your > body > > > dealing with toxins (any toxin, not just metal > toxins). > > > Taking supplements for the liver helps the adrenals > in > > > several ways--the liver is part of the lymphatic > system and > > > helps to detox wastes. The more efficiently it does > this, > > > the fewer nutrients, over-all, are used and the > faster > > > toxins leave your body. Your lymphatic system will > run > > > better as a result (but remember that the liver is > only one > > > organ of the lymphatics-- the kidneys, skin, and > lungs, plus > > > the overall lymphatic plumbing are also > > > > > > involved.) Liver supplementation also helps directly > by > > > supplying the body with more nutrients which the > adrenals > > > can also use. > > > > > > > > > > > > Diane > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > > > com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Marc Martin <marc@ufoseries. > > > com> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > > > > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > > > com > > > > > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me > since > > > I have suffered from > > > > > > > metal poisoning and have adrenal > fatigue. However, I > > > do have a question. > > > > > > > How exactly do the two relate? Does the strain > put on > > > the liver from the > > > > > > > metal poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so > > > then would taking liver > > > > > > > cleansing supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > > > > > > > > > I've read that if one has weakened adrenals, then > the > > > body will get mineral > > > > > > imbalances just from that. So the root problem may not > be > > > the exposure to > > > > > > heavy metals, but rather the weakend organs that > cannot > > > keep the body > > > > > > in balance. So supporting the adrenals (and also the > liver > > > and kidneys, > > > > > > which will have more to do with properly functioning > > > adrenals) should help > > > > > > all by itself. But many doctors tend to ignore this, > and > > > instead try to > > > > > > pull out the metals without supporting the adrenals, > liver, > > > and kidneys. > > > > > > Which for some people leads to disaster, as their > organs > > > are further > > > > > > damaged by the extra metals circulating in their > > > bloodstream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Cheryl Griffing-2
Hi Cheryl,
My best guess on this (and it's a complete guess) would be that you might have something like hyperthyroidism stressing the adrenals and that it has been aggravated by the EMF from the power tower - I think EMF can also cause low thyroid symptoms which would balance out. Now that you're away from the power tower it should give a better chance to sort out the underlying issues, hopefully your dr can help on this. Do you have things like MCS as well? That would be worsened near a main road due to the traffic fumes - noise might also give a bit of extra stress - but otherwise I wouldn't have thought the main road would make a major difference. Be prepared for a long haul though, 1 month rest without active treatment doesn't sound long enough to overcome the effects which have built up over the years. However I would hope that they are reversible, at least in part, with the right treatment. Good luck, Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Cheryl Griffing Sent: 15 November 2009 20:23 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals Hi Ian, Thanks again for your help! Here is the bottom line for all my questions. I finally moved away from a power tower that I had lived 30 yards from for 30 years. I knew it was making me very ill so when I could finally afford to move I did. Now I am no better, 1 month after my move. My thyroid seems to be hyper again, for the first time in 2 years. I am losing weight and eating more. I am tired, especially in the morning. I generally felt better when I was away from home when I lived near the tower. I am wondering if living near a main street may be stressing my adrenals. I knew it may not have been the best choice to move to where I have moved but there were very few affordable homes on the market and I figured anything would be better than being near that power tower. My body has cooled down somewhat, as I was hot all the time before. I think my problem may no longer be as much EMF caused as adrenal. What is your opinion on this? Much appreciated. Thanks. Cheryl --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 10:33 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Cheryl, > > > > I think it can cut both ways. If you have severe heavy > metal poisoning it > > can run down other parts of the body including liver and > adrenals. > > Conversely, if the liver, adrenals and immune system are > already weak, the > > body can start reacting to modest levels of chemicals, > heavy metals, EMF > > etc. I think the second is more common, but that's > just gut feel. > > > > Generally it seems to me as if our bodies are amazingly > tolerant and robust, > > and it takes several things together to give problems. > Standard "liver > > cleansing supplements" may help and should certainly > do no harm (except to > > your pocket). However, if you're eating a healthy > diet, taking lots of > > supplements but are still seriously ill or going downhill, > then there must > > surely be some other major underlying root cause (gut, > liver, mercury etc). > > Finding it is the difficult bit - which is chicken and > which is egg. > > > > My wife Sue reacted badly to having 4 small mercury > fillings removed and > > developed MCS and ES soon after. However, the amount > involved was quite > > small and would probably not have been a problem if she > hadn't already been > > ill from undiagnosed liver and gut problems. Also low > thyroid, which may > > have been a consequence rather than a cause. Standard liver > supplements > > hadn't been enough - more concentrated treatment was > needed and has helped > > her significantly, so that the ES is manageable and MCS > only a problem if > > she gets a sudden high exposure. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. > com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Cheryl Griffing > > Sent: 15 November 2009 07:37 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. > com > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > > > Hi Ian, > > > > What you wrote was of extreme interest to me since I have > suffered from > > metal poisoning and have adrenal fatigue. However, I do > have a question. How > > exactly do the two relate? Does the strain put on the liver > from the metal > > poisoning cause the adrenal fatigue? If so then would > taking liver cleansing > > supplements aid in adrenal function? > > > > I used chelation in the past when I had the metal poisoning > quite severely; > > was weak, could hardly get out of bed some days, and only > in my mid 30's at > > that time. The chelation, taken orally, did exhaust me at > times but in the > > long run was helpful as I felt as though I may have died > without it as I was > > so very ill back then. I just wish I knew then what I know > now! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Cheryl > > > > --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> > ukgateway.net> wrote: > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. > kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] heavy metals > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. > com> com > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:08 PM > > > > Hi Amy, > > > > I'd strongly support what Marc says about being careful > with chelation. > > Often, heavy metals have become a problem and caused the > symptoms because > > the body has already been badly weakened, particularly the > liver. Adrenal > > fatigue is often linked to this. Often ES comes along with > MCS, ME, chronic > > fatigue, gut disorders and other similar problems. The snag > is that if you > > try to chelate while the body is still very weak, the liver > in particular > > may be unable to handle the heavy metals released by > chelation and it can > > even make things worse. Often chelation is done as part of > more extensive > > protocols adding other things like intravenous vitamin C or > activated > > charcoal to try to mop up the "nasties" which are > released. > > > > But as Marc says, it's often best to try to strengthen > your system first, so > > that you can cope better with chelation if it's > necessary. The snag is that > > the underlying causes are often different for different > people, and so what > > helps one person may not help another. In previous messages > various people > > have reported their experiences, e.g. different liver > metabolic pathways not > > working so that the body can't process certain > chemicals. There's even an > > (expensive) genetic test now which can identify missing > liver function genes > > (but also argument on whether anyone yet really knows how > to interpret the > > test). Certainly my wife Sue, who is ES, has been hugely > helped by > > glutathione, whereas it has negative effects on Marc; but > there are other > > supplements that they both benefit from. "Try it and > see" seems the best > > way with most of these things at the moment. So far I > don't think anyone in > > the world has 100% understanding of all the medical issues > and how they > > interact, although some doctors, people and groups are > certainly a lot > > further along than others. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. > com] On Behalf Of > > Marc > > Martin > > Sent: 15 November 2009 00:38 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: Re: [eSens] heavy metals > > > > > Marc - What do you do to support your adrenals, > kidneys and liver? > > > > There are a variety of supplements (and foods) which will > help various > > organs. The specifics may vary by person depending on what > they > > tolerate / do well on / are willing to do / can afford. > Also, different > > doctors tend to prefer different brands of supplements, and > also there > > are things available at health food stores or online that > are different > > than what doctors tend to use. > > > > Over the years, I've noticed that I've done well > with a doctors brand > > called "Standard Process", and they make a > variety of supplements which > > support a variety of organs. For example: > > > > Adrenals: Adrenal Desicated, Drenamin, Drenatrophin PMG > > Kidneys: Arginex, Renatrophin PMG, Renafood, Albaplex > > Liver: Livaplex, Hepatrophin PMG, Spanish Black Radish, AF > Betafood, > > Betacol, Cruciferous Complete, Garlic > > > > Also, to support liver detox via foods, you can try eating > various > > foods which support detox (depending on what you are > willing to eat and > > can tolerate): broccoli, asparagus, brussel sprouts, > garlic, eggs, > > kale, beets. > > > > And to support the adrenals via food, make sure you are > getting enough > > salt (probably unrefined sea salt is best). > > > > As for kidneys, drink a lot of water (preferably > unchlorinated) . > > > > > My doctor wants to do a 6 hr urine provocation heavy > metal test and > > > then IV chelation if I need it. I know, from testing > as well as > > > symptoms, that I have adrenal fatigue. I'm so > fatigued and weak, I > > > can't imagine getting hit with IV drugs like that. > Are those tests > > > safe? Are there other (less scary) things I could do > instead? > > > > There are certainly some who would say that provocation > tests and IV > > chelation are not safe. I personally would not do them. If > your body > > cannot deal with the amount of metals that are unleashed > into your > > system during such a test or IV, it may end up making you > worse, and it > > may be difficult to get back to where you are now. There > are alternate > > tests which don't require provocation -- hair mineral > tests and urine > > porphyrin tests are the most commonly used. Also, one > simple test for > > heavy metals is to try a small amount of a known heavy > metal chelator and > > see how you feel. If have an adverse reaction, that it > pretty much an > > indicator of toxicity. > > > > The busiest heavy metal chelation group on Yahoo that I > know about is > > called "adult-metal- chelation" . I view this > group with a bit of > > skepticism, as most of the people all chelate using one > specific way, > > and they tend to badmouth other methods which seem just as > good to me. > > They mostly use "frequent dose chelation", which > involves using a few > > known heavy metal chelators (DMSA, DMPS, or Alpha Lipoic > Acid) in small > > amounts and at frequent intervals (every 3, 4, or 8 hours > in 3-day > > rounds with 2 week breaks). However, some people even have > bad > > reactions to this method, and may be better off trying some > of the > > alternatives (liquid zeolite, powdered zeolite, chlorella, > cilantro, > > NDF, OSR), or simply focusing on rebuilding their detox > organs and > > letting their body eliminate the metals at its own rate (in > such > > a case, you might want to add some relatively harmless > things > > which will bind to toxins in your intestines -- activated > charcoal > > or bentonite) > > > > Marc > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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