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bbin37

Re: Bioprotect M card

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > I've had the same experience as Charles w.r.t. the BioElectric shield
> > and the Bioprotect card. For me the Bioprotect card was very strong.
> > If you're very sensitive, I'd suggest asking for the Bioprotect M
> > card to try first. I have used the M card with no difficulty (but no
> > noticeable benefit during my original tests, either.)
>
> So, are you saying that the Bioprotect M card didn't help?
>
> Marc
>

Yeah. I couldn't perceive any benefit from the BioProtect M but I
also didn't have any negative rxn to it like I did with the standard
BioProtect card. I'm suggesting any electrosensitive that is set on
trying out BioProtect ask Dietrich to try out the BioProtect M card
first to see if they do receive a benefit from it before trying the
standard card. Dietrich has reported positive results with others who
tried the M card when they found the standard card was too much for
them. The standard card was *very* strong for me and another
electrosensitive that tested it; neither of us could keep it in our
immediate vicinity for very long after receiving it. Start gentle and
work up is what I'm suggesting.

-Beau

Ian Kemp

RE: Shielding devices and their claims

In reply to this post by charles-4

Thanks Charles and Beau. Very interesting posts!

I'm a chemical engineer and spend some of my time investigating process
plants which have gone wrong, and helping to put them right. Getting
involved with ES and ME/CFS/MCS over the last few years has shown me that
even complex chemical plants are simple compared with the human body!

It seems to me that physicists and computer scientists are particularly
sceptical about ES and alternative medicine(including one of our best
friends). I speculate that this is because they are used to being able to
work out very precise cause-and-effect relationships, and can predict from
theory what will happen. This is not so true of medicine, or most other
fields in science and technology, where there is uncertainty and random
variation. Things can't be measured accurately, or behave in different ways
on different occasions.

Finally, when companies get good empirical results but then feel the need to
dress them up with lots of bogus explanations and long pseudo-scientific
words, it may impress some people, but convinces real scientists that they
are charlatans! So the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. One of our
friends found a lot of stuff about "quantum entanglement" being used to
support one machine, and knows from his physics background that this
explanation is rubbish, but that has made him totally sceptical that ES is
real at all. It is a shame because his physics and electrical knowledge
could be really useful to us if he hadn't got hung up on the "purely
psychological" explanation.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
charles
Sent: 15 February 2006 20:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Shielding devices - What are the $20-30 helpful
ones?

Hello,

do you use Windows?
98 ?
XP Home ?
XP Professional ?

Sometimes they crash.
Most of the time you don't know why.
It happens mostly on times you do not expect it, and you need it the most.

But your computer is a very simple machne.
Very simple indeed.
A lot of computer nerds and whizzkids know how they work and can be handled.

Most scientists would like to compare a compter with our body.
But our body is very complicated.
Most of the engineers and physicians do not have the faintest idea waht
makes it tick.
And our body is certainly not crashproof.

On my website one can see, that I can measure a lot of frequency fields
around the body, mainly in the MHz region.
The company Brijot has constructed a video scanner, which detects everything

that does not have the body frequency of 90 GHz !
(So they detect weapons concealed under clothing)
An Australian scientist talks about photon chemistry.

An Austrian building biologist sets people on a frequency generator in order

to find frequencies they may react onto.

In the Bioreonance machines there are modules, that do send very quickly a
large number of frequencies through the body.
When they encounter a response, those frequencies may be used in the
therapy.

The scientists use for tests a fixed frequency, f.i. 900 MHz.
But the praxis is quite different.

We do have a mix of all sorts of high frequency signals, pulsed as well as
unpulsed.
And those signals are not equally in strenght.
The resulting waves may be quite different, and nobody does know how they
look like.
And they may trigger quite different reactions in our body.

With bioresonance it is known that people with metal parts in their body
should not be treated, because the metal will resonate.

We all do have*heavy metals* in our body.
They are *heavy* indeed.

I think that they resonate with all those high frequencies around us.
When you succeed in getting them out of your body, the resistance to
electrosensitivity improves.
(See my message about the ionic foot spa)

With everybody the heavy metals are stored in a different place, so the
reactions will be different to electrosmog.

And we have the matter of longitudinal waves.
I believe that they are farther reaching than normal transversal waves.
Given the fact that electrosensitive people feel very subtle signals, I
found that they also feel them at greater distances.
So the burden is twice as what one may expect.
Technicians boast always that it is impossible, because those signals are so

and so milliWatt, and those signals are regarded as weak.
They are wrong!

Some scientists speak about *biological windows.*
So the resulting waves of a bundle of signals may trigger your complaints,
when they enter such a biological window.
And this biological window may be different for each person.

So the matter is complex and complicated.

Most of the *things* that we talk about do have in common, that they work
with longitudinal waves.
Most of those companies do not know that and came to their findings one way
or the other, emperically.
Because they do not know how and why they work, they are not going to
explain anything.
They just cannot.
In their advertisements they tell a lot of mumbo-jumbo.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "bbin37" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 20:02
Subject: [eSens] Re: Shielding devices - What are the $20-30 helpful ones?

> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that all these different pendants, filters and
>> neutralizers seem to work with different sets of frequencies,
>> and it is just pot luck whether you find filter X happens to
>> match your particular range of "good" frequencies (or, more
>> seriously, makes some of the "bad" ones worse).
>
> That's my take on them as well, Ian. The makers of these devices have
> seen there is an effect from the action of something where some folk
> get a good response so they sell them. Unfortunately, it seems they
> either don't really know the specifics of the action and can't tailor
> them because of that, or if they claim they do know it is frequently
> stated in proprietary terminology and paradigms that can't be readily
> tested by others in more generally understood contexts. I think a lot
> of this comes from being on the cutting edge of research into subtler
> energies, but some is probably marketing propaganda. And if most
> customers have a positive or neutral experience with the devices in
> question, there might not be enough motivation to understand the
> devices further so they can be altered to individual needs. And who
> wants to discuss or define accurate principles around a trade secret
> so it can be studied further? Protecting the money stream from a
> potential threat usually wins out over altruism here. As an possible
> example, I have tried to get a reply from Unified Technologies
> Management Company, makers of the Quantum Home/Pro/Byte products,
> about the possibility of tailoring their products with no success.
> I've also invited them to dialog on this list but I haven't seen any
> response here yet. Whatever their reasons are, they haven't even
> given a courtesy reply. We're on our own in experimenting with these
> at this stage.
>
>
>> Maybe they were all developed by testing different people.
>>
>> I suppose the ideal would be if someone could actually measure
>> you and find out which frequencies you are susceptible to, then
>> produce a treatment which was tailored to you individually. I
>> think some machines CLAIM to have used this approach - but can't
>> say that I have heard of it actually being successful. One attempt
>> we saw was Prof Cyril Smith's measurement of "imprinted frequencies"
>> in a hand held water bottle. This didn't help Sue, but she was
>> undergoing other treatment at the time and, when she was
>> re-measured, the sensitive frequencies had changed!
>
> When I visited the EHC-D I was tested for the frequencies I was
> hindered and helped by. They imprinted a couple of vials of water
> with a helpful frequency and these did help clear me somewhat but it
> wasn't a cure. And the helpful effect didn't last long, probably
> because the frequency imprints were erased afterwards during air
> travel. And these frequencies have shifted for me depending on my
> health and environment.
>
>>
>> Has anyone seen any success with methods like this, or is it a pipe
>> dream?
>>
>> Ian
>
> The scientific research of frequency imprinting into water and some
> other polar liquids like alcohol is well documented. These research
> results tend to be dismissed for reasons similar to those used to
> dismiss ES.
>
> -Beau
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Ian Kemp

Re: Shielding devices - What are the $20-30 helpful ones?

In reply to this post by bbin37

Sorry Beau, what is the EHC-D?
Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
bbin37

When I visited the EHC-D I was tested for the frequencies I was
hindered and helped by. They imprinted a couple of vials of water
with a helpful frequency and these did help clear me somewhat but it
wasn't a cure. And the helpful effect didn't last long, probably
because the frequency imprints were erased afterwards during air
travel. And these frequencies have shifted for me depending on my
health and environment.

The scientific research of frequency imprinting into water and some
other polar liquids like alcohol is well documented. These research
results tend to be dismissed for reasons similar to those used to
dismiss ES.

-Beau

SPONSORED LINKS
Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health+welln
ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness Health
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ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+
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Health
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* Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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snoshoe_2

Re: Bioelectric Shield

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

Don't know why I didn't think of trying that. I have a dog tag size
purple plate. I also have some Cook's diodes (Energ-polari-ti) that
are "worn out". The regular suggested cleaning with sun hasn't
helped. Soaking in water only a very little.

I plan on getting some new ones when I can. Set of 3 for various
items, I found as cheapest, and I used them all mainly on me. Not as
pretty as a pendant, but more for the buck. I know they haven't
worked for some, but really got me rid of some bad energies.

Anyhow, I'll let one sit on the disk today, and larger I'll try
tomorrow. 3rd was broken by a friend, and has been lost.

I bet that would have worked on my tachyon beads too, which I no
longer have.

It actually feels like it is doing something good with the two
sitting together here by the pc. Yay. So thanks for that comment.

My opinion of the purple plates by the way, as they are supposedly
set to the earth's magnetic frequency/ Schumann's, is that they are
not. Not quite. By themselves they make me feel rather icky, and it
just does not match the outdoors field. I don't know if they're high
or low, I suspect low, but since I can feel the earth's one, they
just are not the same.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

> I think since the Bioelectric shield is made up
> of crystals (quartz, etc.), the crystals can
> accumulated negative energy and need to be
> periodically "cleansed". Apparently placing
> it in the sun accomplishes that. And according
> to Charles, sitting it on a purple plate will
> also do that.
>
> By the way, when Charles says "purple plate",
> he is referring to a specific item:
>
> http://www.purpleplates.com/
>
> I tried these once for EMF protection, but
> did not notice anything from them.
>
> Marc
>

snoshoe_2

Re: What is this thing?

In reply to this post by Christina R

It sounds like an orgone emitter to me. If it's made well, it should
put out some good subtle energies, or stronger depending on the
item. If it doesn't seem to do anything for you, sometimes
houseplants like their company.

I suspect the Cook's diodes and many of these items with resin for
sale are variations of orgone, as resin is one of the main
components, along with certain metals and stones. Sometimes water
with imprinted frequencies as well.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], Christina R <christina2005r@...> wrote:

>
> What is this thing??
> I was wondering if anyone had any ideas what it was.
> It was given to me as a present, with no instructions,
> etc. It is supposed to be good "at reducing those bad
> computer vibes" I was told.
>
> It is a tube-shaped (like shape of a paper towel tube)
> Very small. The length is less than my smallest
> finger. The width is such that my biggest finger can
> just barely fit into it.
> In the middle of the length, it has what looks like a
> slight indentation around it as a circumference.
> It is some copper looking metal.
>
> Any idea what it is or how it works? I just set it by
> the computer....????
>
>

Christina R

Re: Bioelectric Shield

In reply to this post by charles-4

I read this and some of the website I could not read
it is in ahother language.

--- charles <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Christina,
>
> start reading at:
> http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina100.html
> plus following pages.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christina R" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 18:28
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Bioelectric Shield
>
>
> > Purple plate?! I've never heard of that. I heard
> hang
> > it up in sunlight. How ddo you do it on a purple
> > plate. And how does that work?
> >
> > --- charles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> we do have the BioElectrical shield also.
> >>
> >> But found the less expensive Bioprotect card
> >> stronger.
> >>
> >> The BioElectrical shield contain cristals, which
> >> will be saturated after
> >> some time and then start emitting the foul stuff.
> >> It can be cleaned and recharged on a purple
> plate.
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Charles Claessens
> >> member Verband Baubiologie
> >> www.milieuziektes.nl
> >> www.milieuziektes.be
> >> www.hetbitje.nl
> >> checked by Norton Antivirus
> >>
>
>
>

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Christina R

Re: EMF - cell phones etc

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

--- Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Christina,
>
>
>
> Hope you're coping OK with the deluge of information
> which has been
> unleashed on you!

:) It is good to be able to get information. Yes,
sometimes it is alot going on at once; I'm trying to
sort through it.

>
>
>
> Personally what would worry me most in your case
> would be the 4 hours spent
> on the cell phone, not the 12 hours on the computer.
> But then my
> experiences are very much coloured by living with
> Sue, who is the ES one.

This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing that;
because I tried to notice; and don't seem to have any
symptoms from my cell phone.

So I am wondering; is it good to avoid that as much as
possible too; just so I dont BECOME more sensitive?

Like: when I'm away from the computer I feel SO much
better. I dont feel anything with the cell phone; at
least not noticeably like youo describe.

> She gets affected immediately if anyone comes into
> the house with a
> cellphone switched on, even within a few feet of
> her. However, she is OK if
> I'm using the computer in the house (she can't use
> it herself). She can use
> a normal landline phone without problems, but this
> is only because we have a
> special phone from Sweden with the coils taken out
> of the earpiece -
> otherwise her head began to buzz within a minute.
> Even a speakerphone
> wasn't enough, as the magnetic field from the
> speaker affected her.

Oh wow, that sounds really hard.

> Is your workplace such that it is impossible to use
> a landline instead of
> the cellphone? (Or are you out on the road a lot?)

A little of both. It is more just that people call on
the cell phone (because they need to reach me; and I'm
not always at my desk.) Also that way they can reach
me at home too. So I have basically all work people
and all "friend/family" people who call on the cell
phone because they never know where to reach me.

> One possibility might be a "hands-free" mobile, like
> in cars, which should
> at least substantially increase the distance from
> your head which is
> normally the worst problem area. (Though depends if
> your symptoms are
> mainly in the head or over the entire body. Sue is
> "OK from the neck
> downward" as she puts it!)

Well, I'm guess mine would be mostly head; I think
tired/sensitive to light/eyes bothering me/fatigue etc
is "head" located , right?

> > Internet/broadband landline, I would speculate,
will

> not be too bad compared
> to a normal landline, though there is no guarantee,
> and certainly should be
> better than a cellphone. We got broadband a few
> months back and Sue does
> not seem to have suffered any ill effects. The
> problem with cellphones and
> DECT cordless phones is that they are giving off
> radiation in the microwave
> region, which does not happen at all with normal
> landline phones.

Okay, that is good to know.

I will try to limit cell phone use as much as
possible. I already unplugged the corddless phone (its
not doing anything bad just sitting there unplugged,
is it?)

> I'd suggest that you try a number of things
> together, some of which you've
> already done:
>
> - Increase distance from your computer
> monitor.

done :)

>
> - Unplug the cordless phone base station
> completely and use corded
> phone only.

done :)

>
> - Use landline instead of cellphone
> whenever possible.

I cut back the cell phone use from about 4 hours to
about 2 by making as many calls as I can from work;
and also avoiding unnecessary cell calls. I am going
to try to cut back to less than 1 hour a day average
over the next month.

Or, if cell
> is absolutely unavoidable, try borrowing a
> hands-free set to try out.

I have this thing where it has a wire connecting to
the earphone. When I use it and when I dont; I feel no
difference (other than its harder to hear on the wire
earphone.) How would I know because I hear some are
very dangerous and actually ampilfy radiation. I can't
tell because I dont get any symptoms immediately from
either (although I note the possibity that it maybe
increasing my symptoms overall but just not in a way
easy to notice.

****
Anything else to do with the computer? I guess I keep
foucusing on that because I feel so bad when actually
using it.
***

>
>
>
> Then see what happens! Unfortunately the only way
> to see with most of these
> things is to try them out. Every ES person has
> different symptoms, and is
> sensitive to different frequencies. But some trends
> are very common - and
> cellphones seem to give problems to the vast
> majority.
>
>
>
> Our hope is that you can stop this problem in its
> tracks, as fortunately it
> sounds like your case isn't too severe at the
> moment. Hopefully that will
> avoid the more extreme effects suffered by some
> people in the group!

I hope it is gets better too. That is good to know
that it isn't severe (it felt like that to me)

>
>
>
> In the long term, if your mercury levels are
> elevated (maybe the tuna is the
> most likely source), you may have to look at
> removing (chelating) it, as it
> seems to harm the immune system and increase
> sensitivity for lots of people
> (certainly in this group). Please take care if you
> do, the side effects can
> be nasty (they were for Sue).

Ok, I'm just doing very slow low dose chelation and so
far seem to be okay with it fortuantly. Thanks for the
warning.

>
>
>
> Best wishes, Ian and Sue
>
>

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Ian Kemp

Re: EMF - cell phones etc

Hi Christina,

Really interesting to hear that you don't have any problems with the cell
phone at the moment, that's good news!
But I would still tend to avoid it as much as possible. There seem to be
lots of cases where people begin to develop ES from one source and then
start getting it from others which didn't affect them previously. A "total
load" syndrome has been suggested (and that can include chemical loads etc
as well); the more exposures of all types, the worse things get. Certainly
Sue got sensitive to extra things as time went on. Conversely there was a
guy whose symptoms started after years of cellphone use; first he got
sensitive to cellphones, then to computers and TV monitors later.

Cordless phone should be fine if it is unplugged and disconnected. The
radiation comes from the base station. Some people find cordless more of a
problem than mobiles because the radiation is continuous whereas with some
types of cellphone it's only brief pulses. But again, different people have
different experiences!

Good to hear that you're managing slow chelation successfully. Several
people in the group reckon it has really helped them.

Ian
_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Christina R
Sent: 16 February 2006 18:49

> Personally what would worry me most in your case
> would be the 4 hours spent
> on the cell phone, not the 12 hours on the computer.
> But then my
> experiences are very much coloured by living with
> Sue, who is the ES one.

This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing that;
because I tried to notice; and don't seem to have any
symptoms from my cell phone.

So I am wondering; is it good to avoid that as much as
possible too; just so I dont BECOME more sensitive?

Like: when I'm away from the computer I feel SO much
better. I dont feel anything with the cell phone; at
least not noticeably like youo describe.

I will try to limit cell phone use as much as
possible. I already unplugged the corddless phone (its
not doing anything bad just sitting there unplugged,
is it?)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

espaules

Re: EMF - cell phones etc

In reply to this post by Christina R

Sue must be a relation, can you give me the details (or post
generally) re the sweedish phone with coils removed I know less emf
do something similar but know harm to compare thanks

--- In [hidden email], Christina R <christina2005r@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Christina,
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope you're coping OK with the deluge of information
> > which has been
> > unleashed on you!
>
>
> :) It is good to be able to get information. Yes,
> sometimes it is alot going on at once; I'm trying to
> sort through it.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally what would worry me most in your case
> > would be the 4 hours spent
> > on the cell phone, not the 12 hours on the computer.
> > But then my
> > experiences are very much coloured by living with
> > Sue, who is the ES one.
>
>
> This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing that;
> because I tried to notice; and don't seem to have any
> symptoms from my cell phone.
>
> So I am wondering; is it good to avoid that as much as
> possible too; just so I dont BECOME more sensitive?
>
> Like: when I'm away from the computer I feel SO much
> better. I dont feel anything with the cell phone; at
> least not noticeably like youo describe.
>
>
>
> > She gets affected immediately if anyone comes into
> > the house with a
> > cellphone switched on, even within a few feet of
> > her. However, she is OK if
> > I'm using the computer in the house (she can't use
> > it herself). She can use
> > a normal landline phone without problems, but this
> > is only because we have a
> > special phone from Sweden with the coils taken out
> > of the earpiece -
> > otherwise her head began to buzz within a minute.
> > Even a speakerphone
> > wasn't enough, as the magnetic field from the
> > speaker affected her.
>
> Oh wow, that sounds really hard.
>
>
>
> > Is your workplace such that it is impossible to use
> > a landline instead of
> > the cellphone? (Or are you out on the road a lot?)
>
>
> A little of both. It is more just that people call on
> the cell phone (because they need to reach me; and I'm
> not always at my desk.) Also that way they can reach
> me at home too. So I have basically all work people
> and all "friend/family" people who call on the cell
> phone because they never know where to reach me.
>
>
> > One possibility might be a "hands-free" mobile, like
> > in cars, which should
> > at least substantially increase the distance from
> > your head which is
> > normally the worst problem area. (Though depends if
> > your symptoms are
> > mainly in the head or over the entire body. Sue is
> > "OK from the neck
> > downward" as she puts it!)
>
> Well, I'm guess mine would be mostly head; I think
> tired/sensitive to light/eyes bothering me/fatigue etc
> is "head" located , right?
>
>
> > > Internet/broadband landline, I would speculate,
> will
> > not be too bad compared
> > to a normal landline, though there is no guarantee,
> > and certainly should be
> > better than a cellphone. We got broadband a few
> > months back and Sue does
> > not seem to have suffered any ill effects. The
> > problem with cellphones and
> > DECT cordless phones is that they are giving off
> > radiation in the microwave
> > region, which does not happen at all with normal
> > landline phones.
>
> Okay, that is good to know.
>
> I will try to limit cell phone use as much as
> possible. I already unplugged the corddless phone (its
> not doing anything bad just sitting there unplugged,
> is it?)
>
>
> > I'd suggest that you try a number of things
> > together, some of which you've
> > already done:
> >
> > - Increase distance from your computer
> > monitor.
>
>
> done :)
>
> >
> > - Unplug the cordless phone base station
> > completely and use corded
> > phone only.
>
> done :)
>
>
>
> >
> > - Use landline instead of cellphone
> > whenever possible.
>
>
> I cut back the cell phone use from about 4 hours to
> about 2 by making as many calls as I can from work;
> and also avoiding unnecessary cell calls. I am going
> to try to cut back to less than 1 hour a day average
> over the next month.
>
>
> Or, if cell
> > is absolutely unavoidable, try borrowing a
> > hands-free set to try out.
>
> I have this thing where it has a wire connecting to
> the earphone. When I use it and when I dont; I feel no
> difference (other than its harder to hear on the wire
> earphone.) How would I know because I hear some are
> very dangerous and actually ampilfy radiation. I can't
> tell because I dont get any symptoms immediately from
> either (although I note the possibity that it maybe
> increasing my symptoms overall but just not in a way
> easy to notice.
>
>
>
>
>
> ****
> Anything else to do with the computer? I guess I keep
> foucusing on that because I feel so bad when actually
> using it.
> ***
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Then see what happens! Unfortunately the only way
> > to see with most of these
> > things is to try them out. Every ES person has
> > different symptoms, and is
> > sensitive to different frequencies. But some trends
> > are very common - and
> > cellphones seem to give problems to the vast
> > majority.
> >
> >
> >
> > Our hope is that you can stop this problem in its
> > tracks, as fortunately it
> > sounds like your case isn't too severe at the
> > moment. Hopefully that will
> > avoid the more extreme effects suffered by some
> > people in the group!
>
>
> I hope it is gets better too. That is good to know
> that it isn't severe (it felt like that to me)
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > In the long term, if your mercury levels are
> > elevated (maybe the tuna is the
> > most likely source), you may have to look at
> > removing (chelating) it, as it
> > seems to harm the immune system and increase
> > sensitivity for lots of people
> > (certainly in this group). Please take care if you
> > do, the side effects can
> > be nasty (they were for Sue).
>
> Ok, I'm just doing very slow low dose chelation and so
> far seem to be okay with it fortuantly. Thanks for the
> warning.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes, Ian and Sue
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Ian Kemp

Re: EMF - cell phones etc

The Swedish phone is produced by Tel-O-Ray Systems. Sue has the "Mk 1"
phone which we got in July. There might have been slight improvements
since. The coils are removed from the earpiece and the connection to the
main phone is through two stethoscope-like tubes about 1 metre long. The
phone can be seen on the front page of their website at:
http://www.teloray.se/

The cost was just over £ 200 (so much higher than the LessEMF version). An
advantage with the Swedish phone is that European phone systems are
compatible with UK ones, whereas US/Canada ones may not be (the same as with
videotapes). The connector as supplied was European rather than UK, but we
found a simple adapter easily. However, we pointed this out to the makers
and hopefully they will supply future phones to the UK with the correct
adapter. They virtually make them to order.

The phone has been tremendously useful to Sue, but has slight snags.
Hearing is easier than speaking - one has to hold the mouthpiece very close
to the mouth or the people at the other end can't hear properly. It seems
difficult to adjust the volume to overcome this. I'd be interested to know
if people have similar difficulties with the Less EMF phone. As far as I
can see, that phone only has an earpiece lead, so does it rely on you
projecting your voice over the gap to the phone for speaking, or is it like
some of these mobile headsets where one sees people walking along apparently
talking to themselves? Sue had problems with the coild in speakerphones,
even at 3 feet distance.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
espaules
Sent: 16 February 2006 22:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: EMF - cell phones etc

Sue must be a relation, can you give me the details (or post
generally) re the sweedish phone with coils removed I know less emf
do something similar but know harm to compare thanks

--- In [hidden email], Christina R <christina2005r@...> wrote:

bbin37

Re: Shielding devices and their claims

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

Thanks for your comments, Ian. You really capture a lot of the
problematic issues succinctly below. Many empirical studies are done,
but if the worldview of the researcher and the reviewer isn't a shared
one, sometimes even the raw data isn't looked upon as real.

I think the phrase "the map isn't the territory" sums a lot of it up.

So many ppl love their painstakingly crafted maps and forget they are
just an attempt to sketch a guide through something infinitely more
complex. Of course, like you said, it doesn't help credibility one
whit when companies offer a device based on real, but novel, science
yet market it with fanciful pseudo-scientific statements designed to
excite the uninformed imagination.

-Beau

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

I'm a chemical engineer and spend some of my time investigating
process plants which have gone wrong, and helping to put them right.
Getting involved with ES and ME/CFS/MCS over the last few years has
shown me that even complex chemical plants are simple compared with
the human body!

It seems to me that physicists and computer scientists are
particularly sceptical about ES and alternative medicine(including one
of our best friends). I speculate that this is because they are used
to being able to work out very precise cause-and-effect relationships,
and can predict from theory what will happen. This is not so true of
medicine, or most other fields in science and technology, where there
is uncertainty and random variation. Things can't be measured
accurately, or behave in different ways on different occasions.

Finally, when companies get good empirical results but then feel the
need to dress them up with lots of bogus explanations and long
pseudo-scientific words, it may impress some people, but convinces
real scientists that they are charlatans! So the baby gets thrown out
with the bathwater. One of our friends found a lot of stuff about
"quantum entanglement" being used to support one machine, and knows
from his physics background that this explanation is rubbish, but that
has made him totally sceptical that ES is real at all. It is a shame
because his physics and electrical knowledge could be really useful to
us if he hadn't got hung up on the "purely psychological" explanation.

Ian

perla1133

Re: Shielding devices and their claims

Hi,

One rubbish explanation of one machine (i guess) claiming to treat ES makes someone sceptical about ES? i gotta wonder about that type of sciencific mind.. You cannot solely blame the rubbish explanation or the person trying at it.. If the real scientist does not even step forward and tries to improve on the explanation?? Even scientists use intuition right, try and look if the answer is here or there??

Closed minds, scientific or other, worry me..

(should not really try to venture near science at this moment and hope i even read that right..)

Love

bbin37 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Ian. You really capture a lot of the
problematic issues succinctly below. Many empirical studies are done,
but if the worldview of the researcher and the reviewer isn't a shared
one, sometimes even the raw data isn't looked upon as real.

I think the phrase "the map isn't the territory" sums a lot of it up.

So many ppl love their painstakingly crafted maps and forget they are
just an attempt to sketch a guide through something infinitely more
complex. Of course, like you said, it doesn't help credibility one
whit when companies offer a device based on real, but novel, science
yet market it with fanciful pseudo-scientific statements designed to
excite the uninformed imagination.

-Beau

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

I'm a chemical engineer and spend some of my time investigating
process plants which have gone wrong, and helping to put them right.
Getting involved with ES and ME/CFS/MCS over the last few years has
shown me that even complex chemical plants are simple compared with
the human body!

It seems to me that physicists and computer scientists are
particularly sceptical about ES and alternative medicine(including one
of our best friends). I speculate that this is because they are used
to being able to work out very precise cause-and-effect relationships,
and can predict from theory what will happen. This is not so true of
medicine, or most other fields in science and technology, where there
is uncertainty and random variation. Things can't be measured
accurately, or behave in different ways on different occasions.

Finally, when companies get good empirical results but then feel the
need to dress them up with lots of bogus explanations and long
pseudo-scientific words, it may impress some people, but convinces
real scientists that they are charlatans! So the baby gets thrown out
with the bathwater. One of our friends found a lot of stuff about
"quantum entanglement" being used to support one machine, and knows
from his physics background that this explanation is rubbish, but that
has made him totally sceptical that ES is real at all. It is a shame
because his physics and electrical knowledge could be really useful to
us if he hadn't got hung up on the "purely psychological" explanation.

Ian

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gruendg

Re: Shielding devices - What are the $20-30 helpful ones?

In reply to this post by Ian Kemp

In einer eMail vom 15.02.2006 20:04:03 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
[hidden email]:

> In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
> >
> >It seems to me that all these different pendants, filters and
> >neutralizers seem to work with different sets of frequencies,
> >and it is just pot luck whether you find filter X happens to
> >match your particular range of "good" frequencies (or, more
> >seriously, makes some of the "bad" ones worse).
>
>

As the inventor of one of these devices I only can agree on this idea. This
is the reason why a device that works for mobile phone frequenzies up to a
distance of 15 m, will work for the 50 Hz frequenzies and the higher frequenzies
hidden in this 50 Hz current only up to a distance of 30 cm. This also implies
that the closer to the source of elektrosmog you put such a device the
better it will help. It is a matter of resonance. So this explains also, why a
patient of mine wo was higly electrosensitive could only be helped after the
bioprotect card was fixed to the nearby mobile phone base station; wearing it on
her body has had some effect but was not sufficient.

If people suffering from ES would follow these laws of resonance, things
would be easier.

Another law of resonance is, that biological organisms seem to actively
attract the longitudinal waves, that are the real cause of the electrosmog.These
devices do this also and as long as they are stronger, the body is protected.
So you can imagine how complex this whole business can become, if the body has
different sensitivity for different frequenzies and the device in
consideration has different resonance qualities for different frequencies. And then with
time the sensitivity of the body may even change.

Dietrich

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

iedbunnie

Re: Bioelectric Shield

In reply to this post by charles-4

ANY ONE THAT HAS TRIED CHELATION FOR EMF OR EMS TO
BRING BLOOD PRESSURE DOWN AND CLEAN THE ARTERIES?
I'M THINKING OF HAVING IT DONE BECAUSE MY BLOOD WORK
SHOWED CLOGGING OF THE ARTERIES. IRENE

THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE SENT
TO ME --- YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH IT HAS HELPED.
IRENE

--- charles <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> we do have the BioElectrical shield also.
>
> But found the less expensive Bioprotect card
> stronger.
>
> The BioElectrical shield contain cristals, which
> will be saturated after
> some time and then start emitting the foul stuff.
> It can be cleaned and recharged on a purple plate.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 02:21
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Bioelectric Shield
>
>
> >> http://www.toolsforwellness.com/eb007.html#
> >>
> >> That's what mine looks like. Sorry it took me a
> while
> >> to find the link.
> >>
> >> Any ideas on whether this is effective?
> >
> > Ahhh, the Bioelectric Shield. I tried that years
> ago,
> > and agree that it was not *nearly* powerful enough
> to
> > be useful. Someone tried to convince me that I
> instead
> > needed the more expensive model, but I was
> skeptical
> > and never tried it.
> >
> > I think for recharging it, it is supposed to be
> > in direct sunlight -- that is, you cannot have
> > it inside of a window.
> >
> > But I'd say you'd be better off trying something
> > else. I can think of devices in the $20 - $30
> range
> > that are more effective than a $200 Bioelectric
> > Shield (at least for me)
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Andrew McAfee

Arteries

The first thing I thought of was coconut oil, at least 3 tablespoons a
day. Good fat is essential in balancing the cholesterol.
Increase animal fats, organic, of course.
Read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon and The Cholesterol Myths by
Uffe Ravnskov for more info about the unclogging of arteries.
I am sure there is much more than this and it's a good start.
Andrew
On Mar 27, 2006, at 6:10 AM, Irene Dickerson wrote:

> ANY ONE THAT HAS TRIED CHELATION FOR EMF OR EMS TO
> BRING BLOOD PRESSURE DOWN AND CLEAN THE ARTERIES?
> I'M THINKING OF HAVING IT DONE BECAUSE MY BLOOD WORK
> SHOWED CLOGGING OF THE ARTERIES. IRENE
>
> THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE SENT
> TO ME --- YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH IT HAS HELPED.
> IRENE
>
> --- charles <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> we do have the BioElectrical shield also.
>>
>> But found the less expensive Bioprotect card
>> stronger.
>>
>> The BioElectrical shield contain cristals, which
>> will be saturated after
>> some time and then start emitting the foul stuff.
>> It can be cleaned and recharged on a purple plate.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Charles Claessens
>> member Verband Baubiologie
>> www.milieuziektes.nl
>> www.milieuziektes.be
>> www.hetbitje.nl
>> checked by Norton Antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 02:21
>> Subject: Re: [eSens] Bioelectric Shield
>>
>>
>>>> http://www.toolsforwellness.com/eb007.html#
>>>>
>>>> That's what mine looks like. Sorry it took me a
>> while
>>>> to find the link.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on whether this is effective?
>>>
>>> Ahhh, the Bioelectric Shield. I tried that years
>> ago,
>>> and agree that it was not *nearly* powerful enough
>> to
>>> be useful. Someone tried to convince me that I
>> instead
>>> needed the more expensive model, but I was
>> skeptical
>>> and never tried it.
>>>
>>> I think for recharging it, it is supposed to be
>>> in direct sunlight -- that is, you cannot have
>>> it inside of a window.
>>>
>>> But I'd say you'd be better off trying something
>>> else. I can think of devices in the $20 - $30
>> range
>>> that are more effective than a $200 Bioelectric
>>> Shield (at least for me)
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

snoshoe_2

Re: Bioelectric Shield

In reply to this post by iedbunnie

Cleaned my dad's pipes out good. He used the mineral supplements, not
the IV kind.

~ Snoshoe
--- In [hidden email], Irene Dickerson <iedbunnie@...> wrote:

>
> ANY ONE THAT HAS TRIED CHELATION FOR EMF OR EMS TO
> BRING BLOOD PRESSURE DOWN AND CLEAN THE ARTERIES?
> I'M THINKING OF HAVING IT DONE BECAUSE MY BLOOD WORK
> SHOWED CLOGGING OF THE ARTERIES. IRENE
>
> THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE SENT
> TO ME --- YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH IT HAS HELPED.
> IRENE
>

1234