need advice re: rfid chips in credit cards

Just got my replacement debit card in the mail last week and have been in agony ever since.  They are now replacing all cards with the type that have the EMV chip, which works via RFID.

I have had serious problems with RFID in the past, though I cannot understand why.  Being a passive system, it would make sense that I would react to them when near an RFID reader, but not at home.

Our local library uses RFID for checkouts, and I cannot have the items in my house for any length of time, as the longer it stays, the worse my symptoms become, starting with heart racing, eye twitching, and then over time leading to sleep disruption and burning pain in the adrenal/kidney area, and finally debilitating weakness, as the muscles in my lower back refuse to hold me upright without supreme force of will.

All from a tiny coil of metal that ostensibly isn't giving off any signal.  No meters I own will pick up any readings, but my body reacts this way every time, and it takes days to weeks to recover once I get the offending items out of my house.

Now, that card arrived last friday, and I told myself, "It's not going to bother me.  I'm not going to let it."  I have an RFID envelope for my passport and put it in there.

Yeah, well, by the end of that day, I was already in a tailspin.  I wrapped it in several layers of copper fabric and put it in a fire safe in my basement.

Even with all that, it's still driving me absolutely out of my mind.  I haven't slept well all week; can't fall asleep, can't stay asleep.

I called my bank and begged them to issue me an old one with just the magnetic stripe.  No dice.  they're not making them anymore.

What can I do?  I can't carry cash around all the time, and even just having that card in the house, wrapped like a mummy, isn't working?  ACK!

Any suggestions?  Any way of understanding how this can happen, and how on earth to shield it?
Thanks,
Lisa

Wow, that's an extreme sensitivity... I know that I once had problems with a chipped ID badge from my employer that I was supposed to wear at work, but the sensitivity was primarily when in a high EMF environment... like while I was at work... :-(

I was also a bit skeptical about these new credit cards that have the same kind of chip in them, but so far I haven't noticed them being a problem for me (and a later generation of my work badge also seems less problematic than the original).

For my work badge, I also couldn't find much to solve that, although I think it was helped by encasing it in a ziplock clear plastic badge holder (what that does I have no idea, but like you say the badge does not register any EMFs so it's not clear what you're trying to protect yourself from), and also I placed next to it an AegisGuard XP radiation shielding material:

  http://www.goaegis.com/aegisguard_xp_radiation_shields.html

But this may end up doing nothing to help you... I'm just reporting what I ended up doing.  

I also use on-my-person EMF protection devices, which might help you if you can find one that helps.  But again, it's not clear to me that "EMF" is necessarily the issue here.

Marc

I wonder if putting it in a lead-lined box would help.... haven't tried that, myself... although I know someone who successfully eliminated his problems with a piece of electronics by partially wrapping it in lead.

Marc

Also, as I look at my wallet, I see that my new debit card, which also doubles as a credit card, does NOT have a chip on it.  So maybe you can find something like that? You may need to switch banks to find one...

Marc

Like Marc said - try changing banks. If that doesn't work ...

Use checks.
Maybe places where you are a frequent shopper can enter the card numbers
manually.
How far away does it have to be? Keep it in your car, garage, distant
corner of your property.
Need it further away?
Keep it hidden in your car and parked a block or two away.
Keep it with a trusted relative, friend, merchant or at your work place,
the workplace of a friend, or a safety deposit box at your bank
Rent a small storage unit or a locker somewhere.
Water and dirt have unique shielding properties - try putting in a zip
lock baggie in a 5 gal bucket of dirt or water..
Would the card still work if you punched out the chip? You could request a
replacement if that doesn't work.

Most of that is not very convenient, can add to stress,  but better than
having this constant devastation to your health. For changes like these
that I've had to make that are time consuming, I just have to take a deep
breath and say - I can cope with this and try to stay relaxed about it.

I just got a new card for an account I'm holding onto for when I travel,
and I'm trying to decide whether or not to ditch it. Your situation gives
me one more reason to ditch it or find a distant storage place.

Hope you find a solution,
Karen

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:33:22 -0700 (MST), "roma247 [via ES]"
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Just got my replacement debit card in the mail last week and have been
in
> agony ever since. They are now replacing all cards with the type that
> have the EMV chip, which works via RFID.
>
> I have had serious problems with RFID in the past, though I cannot
> understand why. Being a passive system, it would make sense that I would
> react to them when near an RFID reader, but not at home.
>
> Our local library uses RFID for checkouts, and I cannot have the items
in
> my house for any length of time, as the longer it stays, the worse my
> symptoms become, starting with heart racing, eye twitching, and then
over
> time leading to sleep disruption and burning pain in the adrenal/kidney
> area, and finally debilitating weakness, as the muscles in my lower back
> refuse to hold me upright without supreme force of will.
>
> All from a tiny coil of metal that ostensibly isn't giving off any
> signal. No meters I own will pick up any readings, but my body reacts
> this way every time, and it takes days to weeks to recover once I get
the
> offending items out of my house.
>
> Now, that card arrived last friday, and I told myself, "It's not going
to
>
> Any suggestions? Any way of understanding how this can happen, and how
on
> earth to shield it?
> Thanks,
> Lisa

would also think RFID can't be a problem if you're not near an RFID reader

weird, even for me,

anybody else having similar experiences with RFID chips?

Hi roma 27,
 Like Karen, I would try earth, or dirt . Also I would try salt water , (better for keeping out microwaves)
       good luck, Sylvan.

All cards are being replaced with the ones with the chips in them. There is no avoiding it

On October 22, "stephen_vandevijvere [via ES]" <ml-node+s966376n4028413h3@n3.nabble.com> wrote:
> would also think RFID can't be a problem if you're not near an RFID reader

When I was having terrible problems with my chipped work ID badge, I had concluded that the chip must share some properties with orgonite, which I also react badly to.  After all, orgonite is simply resin, metal, and crystals mixed together.  One might say that a computer chip is composed of the same materials.

My other theory is that I was having a "metal sensitivity" issue, as the badge had an embedded copper loop antenna in it to pick up ambient 125khz frequencies (which is what the proximity card readers emit to power the chips).  I don't know if credit cards contain an antenna in addition to the chip, or if the chips are purely read by contact?

Marc

I was the one who posted about this a while back. I had ended up calling the bank Discover and they said keep the old one and toss the new one and then when the card is going to expire request a chip free one. I immediately used words "reasonable accommodation for a disability" at the onset of the conversation.

They did tell me there is a down side to not having it. They will ask for my ID every time. No problem.
I was otherwise going to close the account or just not have a card and use the number for online only.

Yesterday I get an email from the next one Barclay that they are sending a chipped card. I call today. My card is not going to be chipped yet and they put a note on my account. I gave the non-english call center girl instructions on wording. Again "reasonable accommodation...".  I told her if they have some new law about a chip, this would protect them when they do not give me the chip, as they must follow ADA laws.

For me it's staying on top when I get the emails.

I have to say you really should switch banks if they do not give you reasonable accommodation!!! Please switch and send them a letter why and file a complaint with the ADA. You must ask for reasonable accommodation using those words first and make sure you have done it in writing. When you switch banks let them know in writing, as much as you can and why. If you have youtube post a video about it and why. Everyone stuck w/ a mandatory chip needs to do this. Please!

Vote w/ you $$. If you do not use their card or acct. , they do not earn interest from you or at least potential interest. If enough people say NO and leave then they are going to have to have a NO chip option.

Again the big argument out there is security. The chips are not secure. I mention health and needing accommodation to the companies and mention security to the rest of the world. Just like the smart meters. Health dangers will not get them removed, but cost and security will.

You can contact Charles Schwab Bank, last I spoke with them, they did not want the security risk on their cards. Just be prepared to have most overseas purchases you want to make denied, for security as well. You could see if they can set you with a NON chip debit visa or MC and they probably will.

Last but not least some interesting videos on how to remove, till you can set up a new account elsewhere:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+remove+chip+from+credit+card

On October 23, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote
> I was the one who posted about this a while back. I had ended up calling the
> bank Discover and they said keep the old one and toss the new one and then
> when the card is going to expire request a chip free one.

Yes, I was browsing around online the other day, searching for ANY bank or card that might not require a chipped card, and I did see something about Discover cards only offering the chip "by request".  So that did seem promising.

And like I said, my credit union just gave me a new debit/credit card, and it didn't have a chip on it (yet).

Marc

Can these chips have a negative effect even though they are in our wallets?

It might not be a problem if the wallet is a lead box.LOL!!

You can try Barclay credit
Charles Schwab Debit Visa  oh and the free checking and checks are nice and all the perks
Yes I think credit unions might be more friendly too, unless it's NM and the banks there do not follow ADA laws. That is why I do not have a credit union account. They refused me for being disabled! If I had it to do over again I would have filed w/ the ADA...again.

I have Chase but haven't gotten that one yet. I am going to tell them the same as the other 2. I am paying them some REAL INTEREST now so they may let it go NO chip if they want me to keep the interest flowing.

I would think that most people would not be affected, period.  :-)

However, for those that are, I have to assume that this is not an emf issue, but rather an "energetic" issue from the materials used to manufacture these chips.  Like having a bad reaction to a piece of Shunghite rock (or orgonite) from a distance, which I've had happen to me.  So shielding it with materials meant to shield EMF may or may not work.  Perhaps some of Charles' suggestions for shielding longitudinal waves might be more appropriate.

Marc

I have Chase and I just received a new debit card with the chip in it.
Not sure if I notice anything different but I generally feel like crap most of the time anyway

Good idea

The Aegis XP product also worked for me, although a handkerchief rinsed in their AegisGuard LL fabric shield that I use for my t-shirts seemed to be just as effective.