house electricity entry point

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> If you are able to turn off the heat at night, I would do, just to see if it makes a difference.
> Also, many ESsers will react to emfs that don't show up on a meter. For example, my daughter
> used to get nauseated whenever I ran the tap water. My electrician checked the metal sinks parts
> drains, ect, with a meter, nothing showed up. Come to find out, there is an EPA mandated clean up
> site, not far from my house, which means our water is contaminated. There's no direct way to check this,
> except if you were to use an ECD or TC meter, to measure the water, these meters are used by the water filter
> co's that are in say, Kroger's, when they need to see if the filters in the Reverse Os mosis machines need to be changed,
> they will use this meter and check the water. If the water coming out shows high contaminates, they know to change the
> meter. This is an "indirect" way to see if there is current in the water, because the more contaminated the water is,
> the higher the current. Every element (lead, cadmium, ect) carries a charge.
> *So basically, my daughter was reacting to current in the water! Which no meter will directly pick up.
> Lizzie
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> To: [hidden email]
> From: russturk@...
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:09:37 +0000
> Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
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>       I'm not ruling out moving out of seattle - have actually thought a little bit about moving to a climate that does not require heat - but realistically staying in the Seattle area is most likely and since gas heat (w smart meter) and electric heat will be the most widely available options, I am interested in people's thoughts on which is mostly likely to pose problems.  Sounds like there is some difference of opinion on the PSE smart meters.  What about electric baseboard heat?  Is this usually a big problem for folks with ES?  I do notice a reaction to electric heat and have it now but am so reactive to so many things that it is tough to know how much of a problem it is.  Also I did some measurements once and I did not seem to get real high readings.
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> --- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@> wrote:
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> > > Yes, many people think of the "lesser of two evils"...but it is a limited way of thinking.
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> > > It is basically saying: those are the only two choices we have.
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> > > The problem with this kind of limited thinking, is, it presents a very narrow
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> > > window. He could move to a place that doesn't require heat. He could find a
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> > > place that doesn't have the gas smart meters. They are not everywhere.
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> > Yes, and he could move to a desert island... no smart meters, no electric
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> > heat, no nothin'... :-)
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> > But the question "as asked" was for an opinion between two options.
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> > At least the city in question (Seattle) does not yet have electric smart meters.
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> Can you describe what the wiring looks like?
> If it is black fat,  thick fabric looking cord, this is not well insulated. It is basically a fabric cord on the outside.
> Sometimes they just used the same wiring used in the old Knob and Tube. You have to remember that
> back in the old days, houses had very little appliances. One outlet in every room was standard, and
> with little plug in appliances, the electricity being used was minimal, compared to now.
> So the energy "load" would have been fairly small, coming into the house, and in the house.
> This makes a big difference when it comes to the emfs leaking out of the wiring.
> Lizzie
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> To: [hidden email]
> From: russturk@...
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:25:01 +0000
> Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
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>       Thanks Stewart.  So is pre-Romex wiring generally better or worse for an electrically sensitive individual?
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> --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote:
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> > russel395 wrote:
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> > >  the wiring was "pre-Romex".  Does anyone know what this means?  Maybe this is part of the problem.
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> > Romex is the bundling of 3 wires I mentioned yesterday. One black for
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> > hot, one white for neutral, and one bare for ground in the center of a
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> > Before romex, there were just single wires going hither and yon, thus
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> > less likely to have hot and neutral traveling together.
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> > > I bought one of those meters that you plug into an outlet and it measures the dirty electricity in that circuit and I got lots of readings about 400 mHz (ideal is at least under 50 mHz).
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> > Correction: the readings are not mHz, but are in "GS units."
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> Marc is one of the lucky ones.
> He stood next to a ele smart meter and didn't feel anything.
> I think, too, that its like he has said before. Es is very individual,
> and some react to higher frequencies, some react to lower frequencies,
> some react to the newer cell phones but not to the 3 g ones, I react to
> high magnetic fields, dirty ele, and high electric fields. Some react to fluorescent
> lighting and usually its right away. I don't, which is kind of strange.
> I do react to DECT cordless phones and the walkie talkies.
> It would definitely help if we all knew "what" we reacted to exactly,
> but even then, there's no guarantee it stays that way, as all of this
> is accumulative.  
> Marc has a saying: ES is a mixed bag. And he is correct.
> P.S.
> I love that everyone on here jumped in to offer ideas and solutions.
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> LIzzie
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> To: [hidden email]
> From: russturk@...
> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 22:03:03 +0000
> Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
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>       I agree Liz.  While standing near one for a few minutes to see if I react is definitely a good idea, my experience is that sometimes it takes me a while to figure out something is affecting me.
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> --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote:
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> > Marc,
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> > Standing next to one for a few minutes is really not an accurate way
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> > to tell if someone is going to react. Its the equilv of spending a few hours
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> > with a person or living with them. Big difference. Many ESsers have delayed
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> > symptoms. You may not, but many others do.
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> > And particularly with any of the smart meters, the pulsing is not the same
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> > minute to mnute, hour to hour. Surely you know that you can take readings
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> > with both the RF meters, and the ones that read for high ele fields, and get
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> > different readings, at different times.
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> > Lizzie
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> > To: [hidden email]
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> > From: marc@
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> > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:28:56 -0700
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> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
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> >       On June 19, russel395 <russturk@> wrote:
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> > > Thanks Kathy.  Should I move, I guess I might have to
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> > > avoid gas heat afterall.  
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> > You might want to find one of those gas smart meters
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> > around the neighborhood and stand next to it and
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> > see if you notice anything good or bad.  You may
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> URGENT NEWS FOR SEATTLITES.  FYI as long as there is a discussion going about gas meters in Seattle with this HOUSE ELECTRICITY ENTRY POINT thread, I feel the need to comment.  Like Russ, I also live in Seattle, and am concerned about where to move and what areas are safest from wireless exposure.
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> There are many utility companies throughout the Seattle Puget Sound area.  Each of these utility companies have their own agenda for Smart Meter plans or installation, so it is hard to get an over all picture of the area.  Plus, these companies are perfectly aware of the public dislike of Smart Meters and are not very forthcoming with information.
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> On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:07 PM "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
> "I'm not sure how the gas company smart meters work, but they
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> cannot transmit a lot, otherwise the battery would die quickly.
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> And I suspect the battery in these meters last for years, as
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> opposed to a cellphone battery, which only lasts for days when
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> the phone is in active use.
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> It could be that the gas company meters only work when the
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> gas utility truck comes down the street to read them (in
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> which case there are still people reading the meters, but
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> they don't have to actually go onto your property to read
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> them)."
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> **********************************************************************
> GAS METERS
>
> **********************************************************************
> Puget Sound Energy provides Natural Gas to Seattle Customers throught out the city of Seattle and surrounding rural areas.  Homes with Natural Gas are distributed throughout neighborhoods in the Seattle area. 
>
> They use what is called one way AMR or Automatic Meter Read technology.  These meters have been in operartion for the last 5 to 10 years.  It is a Radio Frequency based system in which the meter is a transmitter with a 9-volt battery in it.  So there is no electricty at the meter.  It is one way, so the Power Company cannot instruct it to do anything.  The meter transmits information continuously (or they claim every 15 minutes) to a power pole, which then sends it to the Puget Sound Energy Data Center.  The frequency band used to transmit meter data is considered proprietary information and is not disclosed for fear of the meters being 'HACKED".   In some of the rural areas, they use a van drive through with a wand, to automatically read the meters. In the city, there is no van drive by, but meter inspectors come out every few months? to check the meter - probably to change batteries or whatever.
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> **********************************************************************
> ELECTRIC TWO-WAY SMART METERS
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> **********************************************************************
> Concerning SEATTLE CITY LIGHT which provides electricity to the area, the outlook is GRIM.  If you thought you were free of the Smart Meter roll-out in Seattle for some reason, perhaps because the California situation put a damper on their plans, well, think again.  Just look around and see cell towers every few blocks blanketing the city to see what the mentality towards wireless is.  Many city officials are promotiing Smart Meters.  Remember that Senator Patty Murray, the Seattle Mayor and Washington Governor promoted Washington as the first state to install Dual Doppler Radar.  Washington officials love to promote wireless for its technological advancements and money saving aspects, with no regard to health issues.  People have been protesting the giant radio towers around Seattle for decades, but they are still there, unabashed.
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> **********************************************************************
> Here is a December 16, 2009 Press Release:
> http://www.seattle.gov/council/newsdetail.asp?id=10417&dept=28
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> Seattle City Light and the University of Washington are already developing a “smart micro grid project” on the Seattle Campus with federal grant money, intended to draw attention to the consumer benefits of a smart grid. “It is my goal for the whole city to embrace an investment in a Smart Grid system and it starts with educating people and businesses on its consumer benefits,” says Councilmember Harrell. In Baltimore, a smart grid pilot project reduced residential energy consumption by 26 to 37 percent and averaged more than $100 in savings over three months and reduced energy consumption during peak periods by about a third. The program was given a 93 percent satisfaction rating by participating residential customers. I
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> Council President Richard Conlin states, “I think the people and businesses of Seattle would realize major benefits from the conservation and savings potential of a Smart Grid.” Councilmember Nick Licata states, “We need to look strongly at the costs and benefits of a Smart Grid such that Seattle remains at the forefront of innovation and efficiency.”
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> City Light is conducting a cost-benefit analysis and estimates total project costs for 15 years to be $321 million. The analysis suggests the Utility could realize $175.8 million in operational benefits over 15 years.
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> **********************************************************************
> I spoke to someone at Seattle City Light who said the Smart Meter deployment plan is underway.  Clearly, they are aware of the health complaints and protests concerning Smart Meters, and are quietly trying to sneak this through with little fanfare and with providing little information to the public.  Go to the following SEATTLE CITY LIGHT website address and look at the first Ms Powerpoint file on SEATTLE SMART METERS:
> http://find.seattle.gov/search?q=smart+meters&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0&btnG=Go&site=default_collection&client=cos_frontend&proxystylesheet=cos_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd
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> Here you will see that the Deployment of 408,000 Smart Meters in Seattle is already underway and Complete system implementation
> is scheduled for 2014-16.
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> Here is the Justification as shown in the MS Powerpoint:
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> **********************************************************************
> WHY DOES SEATTLE NEED AN AMI ADVANCED METERING INFRASTRUCTURE?
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> **********************************************************************
> The current electro-mechanical meters are obsolete and out of production
> As meters age, we lose revenue by under-measuring usage
> Meter reading at the premise has high labor costs and employee safety risks
> The majority of the complaints SCL receives are billing related
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> **********************************************************************
> THE SOLUTION - AMI ADVANCED METERING INFRASTRUCTURE
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> **********************************************************************
> Replaces 408,000 aging meters with new digital meters
> Adds a two-way communication system
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> **********************************************************************
> DEPLOYMENT
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> **********************************************************************
> 2012
> Proceed with field tests on meters & communication systems in hard to read areas
> Develop RFP for system implementation
> Evaluate Meter Data Management Options
> Develop Customer Education Plan
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> 2013
> Initiate pilot project with preferred meter and communications network
> Develop Implementation Plan including integration with other SCL systems (i.e. Outage Management, Customer Billing System)
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> 2014-16
> Complete system implementation
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> **********************************************************************
>
> For those of us now living in Seattle, we many need to make plans to vacate the city in the next couple of years. OR, it is now time to start getting the message out to people in Seattle to oppose the Smart Meter Deployment.  But, it is hard to stop the horse after it has already left the barn and to get politically active when your life is already overwhelmed dealing with health problems due to ES. 
>
> Also, knowing the tract record of the Seattle City Council and Washington State politicians for being resistant to protests of this nature, it is pretty futile, unless it can be clearly demonstrated that the Utility companies, or the City of Seattle, or the State of Washington could loose money by the implementation of Smart Meters.  Or unless there is a huge backlash.  In order to get a backlash, a huge public information campaign by an organized group would have to be implemented.    
>
> Note that Seattle is a signed member for the Agenda 21 program and is imbued with Paul Allen and Bill Gates money.  Bill Gates has now been exposed as a huge Monsanto investor and proponet in trying to get Monsanto seeds distributed throughout poor African nations that he and Warren Buffet are supposedly trying to help.  Not clear who Gates is helping - the Africans or Monsanto.  The Mercer Mess project in Seattle that was implemented by Paul Allen, located at South Lake Union is a quintessential Agenda 21 installation and was the first place to install a pilot gas smart meter project in 1999 and will be a cutting edge technology area.  I can't find the article on that right now.
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> C. Johnson
> Superdrove@...
> Wireless Refugee
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> On June 19, Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote:
> > Marc is one of the lucky ones.
> > He stood next to a ele smart meter and didn't feel anything.
>
> I'd hardly say I'm "lucky"... merely that I've spent a lot of
> time and money to overcome my own ES, and as a result
> these smart meters don't really seem to bother me --
> at least, not the electric smart meters I approached
> while on vacation, nor the gas smart meter that's
> been on my house for years.
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> So that's another option -- don't concern yourself over
> choosing between gas smart meters or electric heat.  
> Instead, focus on eliminating your ES, and eventually
> you won't have a problem with either.
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> (easier said than done, I know)
>
> Marc
>

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> On June 20, russel395 <russturk@...> wrote:
> > Marc, what would you say were the most important
> > things you did in your recovery?  Thanks for all your help!
>
> My particular case seemed to be a combination of
> heavy metal toxicity (mercury, etc.) along with
> some low-level infections that thrived under
> such conditions, plus the usual glandular
> weaknesses that are brought about by heavy
> metal toxicity (adrenal + thyroid weakness).
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> As for what things helped the most:
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> -- adjusting my home / work environment
>    as best I could (without moving or
>    changing jobs) to be less "toxic"
>    (both from an EMF standpoint +
>     chemical standpoint)
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> -- reducing the amount of toxins in my
>    body (removing metal dental fillings,
>    stop using chemical-laden products,
>    eat "cleaner" food (more organic,
>    less processed food, taking "detox"
>    supplements)
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> -- taking supplements to support weakened
>    organs (adrenal support, thyroid
>    support, liver support, etc.)
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> -- taking supplements to fight low-level
>    infections (oil of oregano, grapefruit
>    seed extract, echinacea)
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> -- finding EMF protection devices that
>    helped me feel better (only a very
>    small percentage of what I tried
>    helped, but I did find things that
>    helped)
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> That probably sums it up.  Certainly I've
> tried a lot of other things, which ranged
> from helping only just a little (making
> them not worth the cost) to actually making
> me much worse (for example, ionic footbaths
> set back my recovery by years).
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> So, knowing what I know now, I could probably
> have recovered much faster and at a fraction
> of the cost.
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> Marc
>

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> On June 20, russel395 <russturk@...> wrote:
> > Thanks Marc.  Were there specific supplements or specific
> > EMF protection devices that you found most valuable?
>
> Yes, although we need to constantly repeat that what
> works for one person may have no benefit to another
> person here (although we do occasionally see two
> people try the same thing and experience the
> same benefits)
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> I think the most helpful supplements for me over the
> years have been:
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>   Megahydrate (formerly Mega-H, Microhydrin) by Phi Sciences
>   Cellfood by Lumina Health
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> Also, after a bad reaction to an ionic footbath,
> the following was the most helpful:
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>   Thyro-Zyme, by Apex Energetics
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> For infections:
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>   Agrisept-L, by Essentially Yours
>   Echinacea Premium, by Medi-Herb
>
> For heavy metal detox (don't attempt
> if you still have mercury fillings in your mouth):
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>   NDF, by BioRay
>   Alpha Lipoic Acid, by Kirkman (Andy Cutler protocol)
>    
> For EMF protection devices:
>   - various items sold by Quantum Products
>     (www.quantumproducts.com)
>   - "personal polarizer"
>     (sold at cutcat.com)
>   - springlife polarizers (no longer sold,
>     so that's not very helpful)
>
> Marc
>