house electricity entry point

Your house sounds a lot like mine, no rhyme or reason as to what's on which circuit.
This is typical of the older houses. Mine was built in 1927....
www.emfcenter.com Emf test meters There is a page on this site that explains the meters, both gauss and electric.
The average house he states, for electrical fields, is usually between 0.5 to 3.0 volts AC. Sensitive people often need to reduce their exposure to less then 0.1 volt AC (skin voltage) to relieve their symptoms.
Magnetic fields: The average house is usually around 0.5 to 1.0 milligauss or more. He states a typical Es client might have symptoms with magnetic fields at only 0.2 to 0.3 milligauss. But this is an individual thing.
Lizzie
To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:47:19 +0000
Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
















 



 


   
     
     
     



Thanks Stewart.  I did some body voltage measurements a while back and that room was no worse than the rest of the house and actually a little lower.  Maximum of 2.5 V in that room (living room) compared to max measurements in the kitchen, den, and bedroom all around 5 V.  By the way, how do these measurements compare to a typical house?



I have not done Gauss meter measurements. Is there a particular meter available for purchase that you would recommend?



I don't know what ground loops are and so didn't understand what you were saying there.  But given this is such an old house (1908 I think) with probably many additions and updates along the way, I do think that the wiring in the house is a big "spaghetti" mess.  For example, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what is on which circuit.  It is kind of all over the place (some kitchen outlets on one circuit, others on another, etc.).



Thanks!



Russ



--- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Russ,

>

> Sounds like the magnetic field around the power line, which can be

> measured with a gauss meter, or the electric field. The electric field

> influences your "body voltage," and is simply measurable with a

> multimeter set to AC V between: a metal stake in the ground and the 2nd

> probe touching your finger.

> Both fields can extend outward 1000 ft, with the magnetic component out

> to 1 mile, depending on amperage flow. More amps = larger and stronger

> field.

>

> I am very sensitive to power lines also.

>

>

> > I have found that I am extremely sensitive to the corner of my house where the electrical wire from the street connects to the side of the house, with the meter on the outside of the wall and the circuit breaker box on the inside of the wall.  I have to pretty much avoid that room.  Being in that corner or along that wall, either inside or outside the house, is as bad as using a cellphone or being in a wireless internet area, and perhaps worse. To a lesser extent I am sensitive to the whole front yard where the wire from the street runs diagonally overhead at a pretty low height (since the house is set above street level).  

> >  

>

> > Is the electrical entry point of a house normally this bad for people with EMF sensitivity?  

> Yes for me. Each person has individual levels of sensitivity and

> symptoms, depending on exposure and toxic load.

>

>

> > Any thoughts on what might be going on here and whether it is more likely to be a problem with this particular house/grid or a problem I would encounter in any house?  

> If there are ground loops inside the house, those can also be measured,

> pinpointed, and pity the person trying to rewire the potential mess of

> spaghetti.

>

>

> > Anyone aware of "experts" that take phone calls or answer email who I might contact with this question?

> >  

> I have some informative pages, and am happy to answer questions.

> Although I focus on RF and microwaves more than magnetic fields, because

> of the longer range, and being harder to get away from.

> http://seahorseCorral.org/ehs1.html

>

> Stewart

>





   
     

   
   






       

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Mary,
My symptoms: chronic fatigue, brain fog, sensitivity to bright sun, no patience, feel cold,  low physical strength, tired legs going up stairs, stomach pain, assorted aches and pains (especially in areas like sprained wrists, ect, head throbbing head ache  at night when I lay down. These only occur after radiation exposures, and often I may NOT have these symptoms until day one or two, AFTER the exposure. (delayed symptoms.)
My daughter was severely ES, she is better now. Her symptoms were: burning sensation, severe head ache during exposure and after, eyelashes fell out one time, stomach bloated tremendously, did NOT tan at all during the summer months, very pale, cold all the time, brain fog- can't remember things, thin hair, many stomach issues and food intolerances, swollen throat, (thyroid), blood sugar dropping upon exposure, ravenously hungry, neeed food NOW!, low physical energy, low physical strenght, can't open a jar, always tired. Fluorescent lighting gave her bad head aches too.
My dogs: one gets diarahrea after radiation exposures and will growl and not settle down, if near a person with a cell phone on AND who is using the brand AXE shampoo/condit/ cologne, ect.
Dog #2: no appetite, no energy, lethargic, very thick neck (thyroid), sweet tooth (candida issues), horrible breath (also candida mold yeast issues).
HOpe this helps.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:43:24 +0000
Subject: [eSens] What are your symptoms?
















 



 


   
     
     
     

Hello all. I read this column everyday and am sympathetic to all you EMF sufferers. You all write about being sensitive and being bothered and you describe your vulnerability to EMFs but nobody ever describes how it affects them. I live in an apartment complex where the dogs have been going crazy ever since the smart meters were installed. I wondered if they too aren't reacting to the fields.



Would you folks mind listing how these fields affect your body or emotions?  It might help explain the other animals' problems and we could use your testimony as backup support in our complaints to management. Besides an increase in insomnia I can't pinpoint a direct link to my own symptoms. But I may be overlooking the obvious.  Any comments... complaints in common?



Mary





   
     

   
   






       

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> You all write about being sensitive and being bothered and you
> describe your vulnerability to EMFs but nobody ever describes
> how it affects them.

Symptoms of ES vary depending on the person and whatever
they are exposed to.  For example, in one situation I will get
a red face that feels like my skin is burning (this is typically
from computer usage).  In another situation I will have anxiety
and chest pains (this is typically wi-fi or cell phone exposure).  
In another situation I will have headaches, nausea, and loose
bowel movements (I recently experienced this after buying
a new computer monitor that I eventually returned due to
ES symptoms)

Marc

> I've actually avoided gas in the past because of chemical sensitivities, but I've
> since read that with the newer high efficiency furnaces people with MCS are able to tolerate it.

Yes, I'm very sensitive to natural gas as well... I can smell a leak from 10 feet away
that the service folks can only detect with their meters from about an inch away.  :-)

However, I can't offer any comparisons of electric vs. gas heat, as we've had
gas heat the whole time I've had ES.  We do have an electric space heater
in our bedroom (which IS a problem, but so is being cold), and in my
comparisons of the various types of space heaters, I settled on a oil-filled
radiator (at the lowest wattage setting).  This would be even more tolerable
if your mattress has no metal springs in it.

Marc

James,

Thanks. I think I'll ask him.


 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
















 



 


   
     
     
      Kathy,



I don't know if there are any concerns about using Stetzerizer filters with

aluminum wiring.  However, Stetzer Electric should be able to answer your

question.  Dave Stetzer is an electrician.  



James  








 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc & Russell.

All smart meters are bad news.

I got sick after the smart meter was put on the gas meter. The gas meter was outside of our living-room.  My son got chest pains &  palpitations sitting 5 ft away from it.

 Our cat also had fits from the smart meter on the gas meter. . She'd lay on her side & kick her paws to help her breath. She has stopped doing that since ours were removed.

Our neighbor got Alzheimer's.   To my knowledge the smart meters on gas meters send the same pulse signals in our city of St. Louis, MO

 We have drive by scan meters for water only.


Kathy

















 


 


   
     
     
     

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

>

> >

> It seems like most (all?) of the Smart Meter complaints I've seen

> here are about electricity meters, which introduce their transmission

> frequencies directly into your house's electricity.  Also, these

> meters seem to be producing bursts thousands of times per day,

> and are sending their signals to your neighbors meters, which

> then pass them on to their neighbors meters, etc.

>

> I'm not sure how the gas company smart meters work, but they

> cannot transmit a lot, otherwise the battery would die quickly.

> And I suspect the battery in these meters last for years, as

> opposed to a cellphone battery, which only lasts for days when

> the phone is in active use.

>

> It could be that the gas company meters only work when the

> gas utility truck comes down the street to read them (in

> which case there are still people reading the meters, but

> they don't have to actually go onto your property to read

> them).

>

> Marc

>





   
     

   
   






 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathy wrote:
> I got sick after the smart meter was put on the gas meter.

I'm wondering if you know how your gas smart meter is powered?

In Seattle, they are battery-powered, and someone comes by
to replace the battery every 5 years.  So the meter cannot be
doing much, otherwise the battery would need to be replaced
much more frequently.

Marc

Here they are run w a batter as well.

The gas co. removed the battery, as they said they did not have a meter w/o the smart meter built in any longer.

Kathy

From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, June 18, 2012, 1:45 PM
















 



 


   
     
     
      Kathy wrote:

> I got sick after the smart meter was put on the gas meter.



I'm wondering if you know how your gas smart meter is powered?



In Seattle, they are battery-powered, and someone comes by

to replace the battery every 5 years.  So the meter cannot be

doing much, otherwise the battery would need to be replaced

much more frequently.



Marc



   
     

   
   






 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have a Mesh system.

http://www.lacledegas.com/bill/amr/amr-faq/

In 2005, Laclede partnered with Cellnet Technology, Inc. (now Landis + Gyr)

Laclede’s AMR system employs radio transmitting devices that are
attached to the meter

Reads from
 each meter are transmitted to local network receivers that are mounted
on poles and buildings and then transferred to Laclede’s customer
billing system
-





 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On June 18, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Here they are run w a batter as well.
>
> The gas co. removed the battery, as they said they did not have a meter w/o the smart meter built in any longer.

Okay, thanks, good to know that some people DO react to the
battery-powered smart meters...

Marc

Thanks James.  Dirty electricity is definitely a problem in this house.  I bought one of those meters that you plug into an outlet and it measures the dirty electricity in that circuit and I got lots of readings about 400 mHz (ideal is at least under 50 mHz).  Installed some Stetzer filters and those helped but did not solve the problem with the area near where the wire enters the house and in fact the outlets in that room had lower readings than other outlets throughout the house.  But I do suspect that dirty electricity is a big part of the problem.  Is there any way to filter out dirty electricity before it enters the house?  

The AM radio is a good idea.  I had heard that before but never tried it.  Maybe will be able to pick up something in that area that the meter that plugs into the outlet does not.

Russ

--- In [hidden email], JamesH <j7077-eagle@...> wrote:

Thanks JD.  I was initially wondering about knob and tube wiring as well.  After I figured out that dirty electricity was a problem in the house and that dimmer switches were one of the problems, I had a handyman in the house converting a couple dimmers to regular on/off switches.  I asked him if the wiring was knob and tube and he said it was not.  However, he did say that the wiring was "pre-Romex".  Does anyone know what this means?  Maybe this is part of the problem.

Russ  

--- In [hidden email], JD <emailresearch@...> wrote:

Thanks Kathy.  Should I move, I guess I might have to avoid gas heat afterall.  That would mean electric heat, but I guess that might be the lesser of two evils.  I'm curious - are other people real sensitive to electric heat or do some tolerate it?

--- In [hidden email], KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:

Thanks for the info Liz!

--- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote:

On June 19, russel395 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Kathy.  Should I move, I guess I might have to
> avoid gas heat afterall.  

You might want to find one of those gas smart meters
around the neighborhood and stand next to it and
see if you notice anything good or bad.  You may
not have a problem with it.

Or you may be able to find somewhere to live where
the gas smart meter is far away from where you'd
be spending any time.

Marc

Thanks Liz.  A handyman working on a couple outlets said the wiring was not knob and tube but maybe in other areas of the house there is some left.  Interesting to hear it could be a problem even if disconnected.  Thanks.

Russ

--- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote:

Russ,
Did you check all your outlets to make sure they were wired properly BEFORE
you used those Steizter filters? Because if any of the wiring in the house
is not wired properly, using the Steiz filters will make the dirty ele worse!
This is not can, as in possibly, but will.
And even if you used the outlet tester to check the outlets, there are ceiling
light fixtures. Does your house, by any chance have those ceiling fan lights?
By the way, this information is on the Steiz website- regarding only using the
filters on properly done wiring.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:06:08 +0000
Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
















 



 


   
     
     
      Thanks James.  Dirty electricity is definitely a problem in this house.  I bought one of those meters that you plug into an outlet and it measures the dirty electricity in that circuit and I got lots of readings about 400 mHz (ideal is at least under 50 mHz).  Installed some Stetzer filters and those helped but did not solve the problem with the area near where the wire enters the house and in fact the outlets in that room had lower readings than other outlets throughout the house.  But I do suspect that dirty electricity is a big part of the problem.  Is there any way to filter out dirty electricity before it enters the house?  



The AM radio is a good idea.  I had heard that before but never tried it.  Maybe will be able to pick up something in that area that the meter that plugs into the outlet does not.



Russ



--- In [hidden email], JamesH <j7077-eagle@...> wrote:

>

> You probably have dirty electricity, also known as high voltage transients.

> The sudden voltage spikes are very similar to the sudden changes in radio

> frequencies in the digital (pulsed) signals generated by cell phones and

> Wi-Fi.   It is very common.  There is a really good book called Dirty

> Electricity, Electrification and the Diseases of Civilization by Samuel

> Milham MD that discusses it.  The author lives in Washington state.

>

> I started out only being sensitive to cell phones and the antennas on

> towers.  But over time, I became more sensitive, and my symptoms got worse.

> I am now also affected by the wiring in the wall where the electric meter

> is.

>

> If you tune a portable AM radio to as low of a frequency as you can (in the

> 500's or 600's), so that you cannot hear any radio stations, and walk around

> the house with it, you will hear a loud buzz or hum in some areas.  That is

> the radio picking up the changes in the magnetic field surrounding

> electrical wiring that are occurring thousands of times per second (dirty

> electricity).  

>

> Pure AC power goes from zero volts to 120 volts, back down to zero, switches

> polarity, and then goes back up to 120 volts 60 times per second (also known

> as 60 Hertz).  A radio cannot pick that up.  The lowest frequency AM radios

> can detect is 530 kilohertz, which is 530,000 cycles per second.

>

> If you are thinking of moving and want to tell how new places compare, this

> is a good way to check.  However, you may find that the strength varies

> depending on time of day.

>

> You should also check the walls near your bed, chairs, couch, etc.  It is

> possible that it might be low enough near these spots that you don’t realize

> it is affecting you.  But if the radio can detect it, your body is absorbing

> it.  If that is the case, you might be able to pull the furniture away from

> the wall enough that it won’t be a problem.

>

> Since it is the worst at your electric meter and near the electric line

> leading to your house, it is probably coming from the grid.  It could be

> caused by loose connections on a pole (I've heard where Ham radio operators

> will sometimes find interference caused by loose electrical connections on

> telephone poles).  But a lot is probably from compact fluorescent bulbs or

> electronics in all of your neighbors' houses.  The newer switching mode

> power supplies used in electronics generate it.  To reduce the amount of

> electricity used, someone figured out that it would be possible to design

> power supplies to turn the power on and off thousands of times per second.

> But every time the power is turned on and off, it generates a voltage spike,

> resulting in dirty electricity.  

>

> Magnetic fields can be difficult to shield, but it isn't impossible.  Less

> EMF has information about it:

>

> http://www.lessemf.com/emf-shie.html

>

> Since you rent, you probably can't use adhesive to attach anything to the

> walls, but you might be able to prop something up against the wall and use a

> piece of furniture to hold it in place.

>

> Another alternative is to try to filter out the dirty electricity.  But, if

> most of it is coming in from outside, I'm not sure how effective it would

> be.  The problem is that you need to have the filters as close as possible

> to the source. And, there is a limit to how much dirty electricity a single

> filter can eliminate.  The more dirty electricity, the more filters you will

> need.  If you have outlets near the fuse panel, you could try it.  But if

> you plug them in 10 or 15 feet away, they may not do much.  

>

> Here are some short videos that demonstrates the effectiveness of filtering

> dirty electricity:

>

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zO1JvA6gh8

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Noc2OA-xWCM

>

> The second video is aimed at people who are into high-end audio equipment

> (they are concerned about dirty electricity because it can affect the sound

> quality of their stereos).  And because of the focus on high-end audio, the

> filter shown is expensive. But it'll give you an idea of what you will hear

> with an AM radio.

>

> The Stetzerizer filters are much more economical.  Here are some places that

> sell them:

>

> http://www.stetzerelectric.com/

> http://www.electrahealth.com/

> http://www.lessemf.com/suppress.html

>      

> Also, some surge suppression power strips contain filters (usually

> advertised as power conditioning).  

>

> However, as Stewart mentioned, it is possible that the house could have

> wiring problems.  In that case, unless you have a very sympathetic landlord,

> your options are probably limited.

>

> James

>

>

>

> --

> View this message in context: http://esens.966376.n3.nabble.com/house-electricity-entry-point-tp4022102p4022117.html

> Sent from the eSens mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

>





   
     

   
   






       

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good idea.

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

Pre romax usually means they stayed with the cloth wiring, versus the insulated.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:19:23 +0000
Subject: [eSens] Re: house electricity entry point
















 



 


   
     
     
      Thanks JD.  I was initially wondering about knob and tube wiring as well.  After I figured out that dirty electricity was a problem in the house and that dimmer switches were one of the problems, I had a handyman in the house converting a couple dimmers to regular on/off switches.  I asked him if the wiring was knob and tube and he said it was not.  However, he did say that the wiring was "pre-Romex".  Does anyone know what this means?  Maybe this is part of the problem.



Russ  



--- In [hidden email], JD <emailresearch@...> wrote:

>

>

> --- At 01:02 AM 17 06 2012, russel395 wrote:

>

> >So, what I'm trying to figure out is whether this is something particularly bad about this house (an old house built in the very early 1900s) and/or this neighborhood (also old) or if I would be this sensitive to the electricity entry point on any house. I'm considering moving (I'm a renter) but don't want to put forth the effort if I will have the same problem in another house.

>

>

> Google: - knob-and-tube wiring + fields

>

> http://www.google.com/search?q=knob-and-tube+wiring+fields 

>

>

> wikipedia - Knob and tube wiring

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring

>

> Knob and tube wiring (sometimes abbreviated K&T) was an early standardized method of electrical wiring in buildings, in common use in North America from about 1880 to the 1930s.[1][2] ...

>

> ... For those concerned about stray magnetic fields, K&T wiring produces a much stronger effect at a given level of current, since the conductors are separated by a greater distance and their fields do not cancel as well as more closely spaced conductors. According to the theory of magnetic fields, two parallel conductors carrying equal currents in opposite directions form a balanced line, partially cancelling each other's magnetic field at a sufficiently large distance from the pair. As a rule of thumb, if two parallel conductors carrying opposite currents are then separated by 10 times the distance, the stray magnetic field will then extend 10 times further than before."

>

>

> JD

>

>

> --- At 01:02 AM 17 06 2012, russel395 wrote:

> >

> >Hi.  I'm very happy to have just found this group.  I live in the Seattle area and I've been aware of my electro-sensitivity for about 5 years, though I imagine I've had it longer.  Can't use cell phones, watch television, be in wifi areas, etc.  I think my degree of sensitivity is on the high end, but not real familliar with what other folks out there deal with.  Looking for some help with the following...

> >

> >I have found that I am extremely sensitive to the corner of my house where the electrical wire from the street connects to the side of the house, with the meter on the outside of the wall and the circuit breaker box on the inside of the wall.  I have to pretty much avoid that room.  Being in that corner or along that wall, either inside or outside the house, is as bad as using a cellphone or being in a wireless internet area, and perhaps worse. To a lesser extent I am sensitive to the whole front yard where the wire from the street runs diagonally overhead at a pretty low height (since the house is set above street level).  

> >

> >So, what I'm trying to figure out is whether this is something particularly bad about this house (an old house built in the very early 1900s) and/or this neighborhood (also old) or if I would be this sensitive to the electricity entry point on any house.  I'm considering moving (I'm a renter) but don't want to put forth the effort if I will have the same problem in another house.  

> >

> >Is the electrical entry point of a house normally this bad for people with EMF sensitivity?  Any thoughts on what might be going on here and whether it is more likely to be a problem with this particular house/grid or a problem I would encounter in any house?  Anyone aware of "experts" that take phone calls or answer email who I might contact with this question?

> >

> >Note: I don't think the house has a "smart meter".  I'm in Seattle and though Puget Sound Energy uses smart meters, I have electric heat with Seattle City Light and I don't think they use them yet.  Near the meter is where it affects me the most, but this is also where the wire connects to the house and as I mentioned, I think I can notice a sensitivity to the overhead wire in the front yard as well.

> >

> >Thanks!

> >

> >Russ

> >

> >

> >

>





   
     

   
   






       

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

russel395 wrote:
>  the wiring was "pre-Romex".  Does anyone know what this means?  Maybe this is part of the problem.
>  

Romex is the bundling of 3 wires I mentioned yesterday. One black for
hot, one white for neutral, and one bare for ground in the center of a
flat insulation jacket.

Before romex, there were just single wires going hither and yon, thus
less likely to have hot and neutral traveling together.


> I bought one of those meters that you plug into an outlet and it measures the dirty electricity in that circuit and I got lots of readings about 400 mHz (ideal is at least under 50 mHz).

Correction: the readings are not mHz, but are in "GS units."

Stewart