Too smart Too late
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Aha, the dirty air from pc monitors?
None of the meters of Gigahertz can do that properly, because there the frequencies are far beyond their limits. Not even a NFA-1000 is too low to grasp that. The same goes for what is nibbling at your grounding line. But of course, if you are satisfied with *house numbers* feel free to go. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 2:02 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late Basically pc-monitors and dirty air, the ME3851A should measure most of it. Not on a daily basis, not professionally, without a need or desire for great precision. Do you have doubts about the given frequency response curve and if so, why ? Does it not show real signals above 100 kHz and give "house numbers" instead ? For instance did it show nothing while a spectran NF and a ME3951A did measure fields between 100kHz and 400kHz ? And did a ME3851A show "ghost-readings" in that range that the other meters did not pick up ? In order to check ( not properly "test" ) a meter, i suppose one needs at least two other ones of different types that meet the necessary criteria. I prefer an on the long term reliable, simple and sensitive meter with little radiation of its own. There must be a balance between price and performance, without an obsession to get extremely close to perfection. Emf-exposure can not be avoided these days anyway, only diminished, while one can try to raise one's resistance, that is our hard reality. I just read that in the Netherlands the trend of doubling mobile data-travel every year is expected to continue. In 2017 it will be already 17 times as much as it is now, and smart meters are probably not even included in that prognosis. I think in the last 3 years it went up 12 times, so that would add up to over 200 times in just 7 years, truly unbelievable. The human animal appears to be an experiment of the universe in insanity ( apart from dishonesty ), it is amazing. One could also see humanity as the skin-cancer the planet, and cancer-cells die when they killed their host ( if not before ) ... --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > @ ad, > > what is it exactly that you want to measure? > > I have all those meters and even more. > > A number of meters do show only *house numbers* if you go beyond their given radius. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:16 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > Let's introduce a new term : dirty ( poor quality ) communication. > If the meaning of a statement remains unclear, it can not be considered properly and it rather be filtered. > That the ME3851A measures upto 100 kHz but no further ( instead of till 2 kHz ) appears ( to me ) rather unlikely as well, a filter to cut off the ( curved ) curve would make little sense. > Frequency response curves can be tested or checked, we are talking about meters here, not stories one may want to believe or not to believe. > In absolute terms we know nothing and even that is too much said, nevertheless in regards to meters one may want to see some sort of documentation of measurements and of experiences in order to estimate the chances wether these can be useful within one's current reality. > Of course Gigahertz may possibly not give the most objective review here, however at least the company delivered a straightforward, plausible and relevant response. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Well, so far all i see specified is that the NFA-1000 should measure from 5 Hz to 1000 KHz, the ME3851A from 5 Hz - 100 KHz ( both compensated, better than -2 dB, the latter with lower accuracy still useful to over 500 kHz ). The Stetzer-meter and -filters are i guess a joke in your view too. However your answers remain for me too vague, without any detailed documentation of what you have checked and measured, and how much of the dirty air will be missed above which frequencies. At any rate, what i want is to measure say on average over 95 % of the presence of LF-fields, inclusive of the "dirt" which may be missed at the highest but less dominant end of the dirty range, and not necessarily accurately, but not ignoring more than 5 % of present frequencies. For instance to check out a monitor, shield it and then measure again, not with a professional and for most people unrealistic perfectionistic approach and spending a fortune on a collection of meters that have to be checked regularly since these may need re-calibration occasionally. I suppose "house numbers" is another term for "ghost-readings" ( not in the spiritistic definition ), of which Spectrans ( well, of the HF-series ) have been suspected also. Probably all meters can go berseck and the ones with more complex electronics more easily. Also to be considered is the impression that the manuals and operation of Spectrans are not designed for the average non-engineer. With the information at hand, i still go for the ME3851A ;). --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > Aha, the dirty air from pc monitors? > > None of the meters of Gigahertz can do that properly, because there the frequencies are far beyond their limits. Not even a NFA-1000 is too low to grasp that. > > The same goes for what is nibbling at your grounding line. > > But of course, if you are satisfied with *house numbers* feel free to go. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 2:02 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > Basically pc-monitors and dirty air, the ME3851A should measure most of it. > Not on a daily basis, not professionally, without a need or desire for great precision. > Do you have doubts about the given frequency response curve and if so, why ? > Does it not show real signals above 100 kHz and give "house numbers" instead ? > For instance did it show nothing while a spectran NF and a ME3951A did measure fields between 100kHz and 400kHz ? > And did a ME3851A show "ghost-readings" in that range that the other meters did not pick up ? > In order to check ( not properly "test" ) a meter, i suppose one needs at least two other ones of different types that meet the necessary criteria. > I prefer an on the long term reliable, simple and sensitive meter with little radiation of its own. > There must be a balance between price and performance, without an obsession to get extremely close to perfection. > Emf-exposure can not be avoided these days anyway, only diminished, while one can try to raise one's resistance, that is our hard reality. > I just read that in the Netherlands the trend of doubling mobile data-travel every year is expected to continue. > In 2017 it will be already 17 times as much as it is now, and smart meters are probably not even included in that prognosis. > I think in the last 3 years it went up 12 times, so that would add up to over 200 times in just 7 years, truly unbelievable. > The human animal appears to be an experiment of the universe in insanity ( apart from dishonesty ), it is amazing. > One could also see humanity as the skin-cancer the planet, and cancer-cells die when they killed their host ( if not before ) ... > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > @ ad, > > > > what is it exactly that you want to measure? > > > > I have all those meters and even more. > > > > A number of meters do show only *house numbers* if you go beyond their given radius. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:16 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > Let's introduce a new term : dirty ( poor quality ) communication. > > If the meaning of a statement remains unclear, it can not be considered properly and it rather be filtered. > > That the ME3851A measures upto 100 kHz but no further ( instead of till 2 kHz ) appears ( to me ) rather unlikely as well, a filter to cut off the ( curved ) curve would make little sense. > > Frequency response curves can be tested or checked, we are talking about meters here, not stories one may want to believe or not to believe. > > In absolute terms we know nothing and even that is too much said, nevertheless in regards to meters one may want to see some sort of documentation of measurements and of experiences in order to estimate the chances wether these can be useful within one's current reality. > > Of course Gigahertz may possibly not give the most objective review here, however at least the company delivered a straightforward, plausible and relevant response. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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@ad,
since you have obviously no idea what we are talking about, and it is not possible to inject images in this forum, I have made a page on one of my websites, to illustrate what I mean. http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html I have quite a number of different meters from different companies, and now and then, I compare them. (among them 5 different spectrumanalysers, not to mention all the different antenna's and probes). So I am not speaking about what I think that may be theoretically the case, but from 15 years hard measuring and comparing. Under *house numbers* we do understand not Ghost signals, which are not present with the nowadays meters anymore, but just the rubbish produced from outside the given parameters. Be happy with your ME3851A. PS. the Stetzer meter and the filters are nice up to 150kHz. But above that, one needs (german) filters who go up to 30MHz. It is ridiculous to plant a box full of filters. First one has to eliminate the *dirty* sources, and use filters for the rest. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 4:28 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late Well, so far all i see specified is that the NFA-1000 should measure from 5 Hz to 1000 KHz, the ME3851A from 5 Hz - 100 KHz ( both compensated, better than -2 dB, the latter with lower accuracy still useful to over 500 kHz ). The Stetzer-meter and -filters are i guess a joke in your view too. However your answers remain for me too vague, without any detailed documentation of what you have checked and measured, and how much of the dirty air will be missed above which frequencies. At any rate, what i want is to measure say on average over 95 % of the presence of LF-fields, inclusive of the "dirt" which may be missed at the highest but less dominant end of the dirty range, and not necessarily accurately, but not ignoring more than 5 % of present frequencies. For instance to check out a monitor, shield it and then measure again, not with a professional and for most people unrealistic perfectionistic approach and spending a fortune on a collection of meters that have to be checked regularly since these may need re-calibration occasionally. I suppose "house numbers" is another term for "ghost-readings" ( not in the spiritistic definition ), of which Spectrans ( well, of the HF-series ) have been suspected also. Probably all meters can go berseck and the ones with more complex electronics more easily. Also to be considered is the impression that the manuals and operation of Spectrans are not designed for the average non-engineer. With the information at hand, i still go for the ME3851A ;). --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > Aha, the dirty air from pc monitors? > > None of the meters of Gigahertz can do that properly, because there the frequencies are far beyond their limits. Not even a NFA-1000 is too low to grasp that. > > The same goes for what is nibbling at your grounding line. > > But of course, if you are satisfied with *house numbers* feel free to go. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Interesting stuff, thank you, this is a reponse worth pondering upon. It took some effort to pull it out of you ;). So dirty air is "spectrum-wide" and most (!) of it can not be measured with an LF-meter, except for the Spectran NF 5030 with extended frequency-range ( we are talking about 1200 euros / 1600 usd here though and that is without any other meter to check it with once in a while ). But without measuring it is already useful to know what one could expect, most "emf-experts" lack such insight, one does not read much about this significant issue. In the country-side probably the grounding and the impact of telecom masts will be less of an issue. Emf-sensitive people better not stay much longer in cities, these are getting worse fast, i am out already with one foot ( part-time ) and the other will follow within a few years, not to return. So monitors should be shielded also if a reasonably good LF-meter shows it does not emit much, and even fridges are suspicious for other than 50/60 Hz ( why is that ? ) "This shows what I measure with a lot of homes on only the grounding lines. I advise here to install a new grounding, much deeper, and where one comes upwards with a shielded wire, so that underway, no *dirty air* is picked up." How deep a grounding normally should go in order to play it on the safe side ? "Many persons experience troubles when they have painted their walls with shielding paint. But this paint must be grounded. And with many bad grounding lines, they just radiates these frequencies picked from the ground." I understood and also read that this paint does not need grounding in order to shield HF ( RF ), which is why most people use it, against dect-phones or wifi-routers from neighbours or telecom-masts nearby. It may be better to forget about also blocking LF-electrical fields by grounding when that may lead to worse trouble actually. It is both funny and sad that a lot of folks make great effort to improve their environment, with meters and shielding materials, and things end up only worse. Well, life is a game, and sometimes it's time to loose ;(. One more thing, is one Bajog-filter usually sufficiënt to "clean" all that dirty electricity coming over the grid into one's house, and where do you recommand to plug it in or install ? --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > @ad, > > since you have obviously no idea what we are talking about, and it is not possible to inject images in this forum, I have made a page on one of my websites, to illustrate what I mean. > > http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html > > I have quite a number of different meters from different companies, and now and then, I compare them. > (among them 5 different spectrumanalysers, not to mention all the different antenna's and probes). > So I am not speaking about what I think that may be theoretically the case, but from 15 years hard measuring and comparing. > > Under *house numbers* we do understand not Ghost signals, which are not present with the nowadays meters anymore, but just the rubbish produced from outside the given parameters. > > Be happy with your ME3851A. > > PS. the Stetzer meter and the filters are nice up to 150kHz. > But above that, one needs (german) filters who go up to 30MHz. > It is ridiculous to plant a box full of filters. > First one has to eliminate the *dirty* sources, and use filters for the rest. > > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 4:28 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > Well, so far all i see specified is that the NFA-1000 should measure from 5 Hz to 1000 KHz, the ME3851A from 5 Hz - 100 KHz ( both compensated, better than -2 dB, the latter with lower accuracy still useful to over 500 kHz ). > The Stetzer-meter and -filters are i guess a joke in your view too. > However your answers remain for me too vague, without any detailed documentation of what you have checked and measured, and how much of the dirty air will be missed above which frequencies. > At any rate, what i want is to measure say on average over 95 % of the presence of LF-fields, inclusive of the "dirt" which may be missed at the highest but less dominant end of the dirty range, and not necessarily accurately, but not ignoring more than 5 % of present frequencies. > For instance to check out a monitor, shield it and then measure again, not with a professional and for most people unrealistic perfectionistic approach and spending a fortune on a collection of meters that have to be checked regularly since these may need re-calibration occasionally. > I suppose "house numbers" is another term for "ghost-readings" ( not in the spiritistic definition ), of which Spectrans ( well, of the HF-series ) have been suspected also. > Probably all meters can go berseck and the ones with more complex electronics more easily. > Also to be considered is the impression that the manuals and operation of Spectrans are not designed for the average non-engineer. > With the information at hand, i still go for the ME3851A ;). > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > Aha, the dirty air from pc monitors? > > > > None of the meters of Gigahertz can do that properly, because there the frequencies are far beyond their limits. Not even a NFA-1000 is too low to grasp that. > > > > The same goes for what is nibbling at your grounding line. > > > > But of course, if you are satisfied with *house numbers* feel free to go. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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