Too smart Too late
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Pipes under the floor mag show a few nT.
Metal springs in boxsprings may show more than 5000nT. The earth rays may show 1/1000th nT. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth thode To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late Oh yes, magnetic fields coming from beds is definitely an issue, however..........I don't know if the magnetic fields from metal springs, ect,. in a bed, would necessarilyqualify as "geopathic stress". One would have to rule out other factors; such as: high fields comingfrom radiator/baseboard heat, bad wiring, pipes under the floor, ect. My understanding of Geopathic stress is that it comes from the "earth". " Negative energies, also known as ‘harmful earth rays’, which emanate from the earth." LizzieTo: [hidden email] From: [hidden email] Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 12:24:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late What abouit the geopathic stress coming from your bed? The static magnetical fields may be much larger than from an eart beam or underground waterflows. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: Rolf Muertter To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late I agree. The more I learn, the more I realize that there is a connection between ES and geopathic stress. It may not be true for everyone, but I think it is for me. I became ES a little over a year ago when I moved from Maryland to Arizona because of mold illness. I decided to drive my car, which took four days. By the time I got to New Mexico, my symptoms had completely disappeared, and I felt like I was in perfect health. By the time I got to Tucson, I had lots of energy and had no trouble running errands and finding a hotel to stay and carrying all my things up two flights of stairs to my room. But when I woke up the next morning my headache, tinnitus, and fatigue were back. At first I thought it was mold illness again. It took me two months to figure out that it was actually ES. And I had a harder time trying to figure out what triggered it. Why did I never develop ES in the DC area where I had suffered from mold illness and Candidiasis for four years, had a demanding job, long commutes, and where there certainly was way more electrosmog than in Arizona? It took me even longer to realize that the difference is very likely geopathic stress. I think it has something to do with all the granite here, lots of water flowing underground, and little surface water. The only areas here where I can recover are those with few cell towers and lots of volcanic rock. Rolf On Mar 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > You are right! That is the book!Wanted this book for awhile.I think there's a definite connnectionbetween ES and Geopathic stress.What do you think? Lizzie > To: [hidden email] > From: [hidden email] > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:18:17 -0700 > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > Lizzie, thanks for the recommendation. The author is Käthe Bachler, and it was originally published in1976 in German. It was translated in 1984. Anyone interested can check it out here: http://books.google.com/books?id=W5UmV8Y0CL4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false > > > > Rolf > > > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > > > Awesome right back at ya, Pam! "Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. " > > > Sometimes I think all of us Essers are seers. And many just don'trealize this. I just got this new book, called "Earth Radiation", big time seller inEurope. Tons of documented studies on geopathic stress. Its not a new book, but the info is exceptionally well documented.And plays a big role in our world today, with the increased earthquakesand solar flare activities.Wonder how many Essers are living in bad geopathic areas? Lizzie To: [hidden email] > > > From: [hidden email] > > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:06:16 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awesome siting Lizzie! > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, done. Some people need to SEE with their eyes... Sadly scientists claim that humans of today can only SEE about 4% of what there actually is to be seen in the immediate universe. Our DNA and brains have been shown to be significantly under utilized, yet many of our so-called skeptics and intellectuals are willing to hang every ounce of their being on what so-called science (at the moment) conveys to be seen or "witnessed". Yet, science is modified every moment and humans still base assumptions on ALL that we CANNOT see- therefore CANNOT know! That's what I personally think about human's perceived limitations. We are able to "know" things at a sublime level--regardless of what "we" are able to see or believe to be "real." > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there are those would need to "BELIEVE" the official story no matter how contrived and manipulated it might be. To hell with what the ANCIENTS thought--- MODERN man has ALL the answers... to his own destruction-- because...EGO is a bitch! > > > > > > > > > > > > Geo stress is real to all who have the ability to feel it. Animals feel it. More and more humans will be able to feel it. Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. Dowsers are effective and most of the non-scientific natural healing modalities can be effective. Skeptics may call it placebo effect- but do you think that those healed care about what skeptics think? > > > > > > > > > > > > I was feeling geo-stress around the time that I first found out about it-- but I totally agree with the perception that geo-stress seems to amplify the frequencies including those carried by human emotions and human emf fields. It all seems to boost each other and makes for a nasty soup of toxic energies and vibrations. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't personally know that EMF's are stronger than geopathic stress. I can tolerate a lot of EMF, but when the geo stress is really bad (as it has been over the past few months), sometimes it has been almost debilitating. Of course, one's own constitution is also significant at those times. A dowser can tell you the types of geopathic conditions you are dealing with and can quiet the energies for a time allowing for healing of the space and those who occupy (even for the neighbors, somewhat). > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be experiences and phenomenon that will mystify and make skeptical certain types of mindsets-- just like some of us see the value in a society wanting to invest in the well being of it's citizens and some think that even the less fortunate should be dragged along. Quantum mechanics should move us into more possibilities and show people a glimpse into the minds of the great mystics and seers of all time. They knew something...here we are still trying to figure it all out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm beyond the trying to figure it all out. It is here and whether I accept or believe in it, someone out there is running with the knowledge and using it to transform their reality everyday. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great weekend! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 3/7/13, ad <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ad <[hidden email]> > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 4:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your feedback, i'll delve into it within a few days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I distinguish between true and false experiences, both might be illusions but there seems to be a fine line between existential impressions and imaginations. > > > > > > > > > > > > When people are on drugs it is easy to guess how non-sensible their experiences are, with paranormal folks it isn't that clear for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless my gut tells me that most ghost-hunters, ufo-followers and so forth are simply over-imaginative and lack common sense, they do not observe any astral or other finer realm at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > And even if they do, their observations are likely to be mixed up with false impressions. > > > > > > > > > > > > So i prefer to stay away from hoky stuff and tend to question wild theories that weak-minded people may fall for, and that are not likely to help anybody to live wisely at all, rather to the contrary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reactions to emf can be measured in the body, so that you feel these does not surprise me, it can very well be ( what i call ) a true experience, just like the sun on ones skin. > > > > > > > > > > > > A research on this is discussed within this great film that you probably have seen already : > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ > > > > > > > > > > > > So you fed my interest in geopathic issues, i'll read a lot about it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Interesting story, thanks for sharing that. Well, think about it: without a meter, its hard to "prove" to others that cell phones and wirelessemit radiation. And even WITH a meter, many don't believe this radiation is harmful. Some people are sensitive to wireless, some are sensitive to many different frequencies,and some are sensitive to the energies of what some call: "ghosts/spirits". Your Shamanist friend is very wise. There are methods to transmute Geopathic stress. But to my perspective, these methodsmust also include elimating other sources of emfs (IE: bad wiring, high magnetic fields, reducingwireless, ect).Just as an example, if an area, say an appliance that emits alot of dirty electricity, happensto BE in the direct path of Geopathic stress, the geopathic stress willl amplify the dirty electricity.This is my working theory. Can I prove this? Only in that I have FELT the difference in my body,in my mood, in my sleep. That's all the proof I > > > > > > need. However, the below article does say thesame thing. (see: www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html) Also, it is not wise to have one's bed over a place of geopathic stress. There are many articles/research about this very topic,and as many of ES symptoms are eerily similiar to geopathic stress symptoms,only much more severe, which makes sense, in that geopathic stress lines, are shown to be MOREpowerful, when combined with areas that are heavily polluted by electro pollution. Here's one, that does prove it, with testing.www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html(Its a long article but well worth the read!) "The global grids, like sha streams, show stronger parallel edge lines when they > > > > > > > > > > > >> are under stress, for example before an earth-quake, and also if they are > > > > > > > > > > > >> heavily electro-magnetically polluted. Research Results (This is just one study, there are many more listed in this article) > > > > > > > > > > > >> The project involved the > > > > > > > > > > > >> testing of 24 different biological parameters involving 985 trial volunteers in > > > > > > > > > > > >> 6,943 investigations using 462, 421 individual measurements. > > > > > > > > > > > >> The test results > > > > > > > > > > > >> were lined up by Biometric Significance and are valued with Serotonin > > > > > > > > > > > >> alteration, Blood Corpuscle Decline Speed and Immunoglobulin deficiencies in > > > > > > > > > > > >> lead position. > > > > > > > > > > > >> Serotonin decreased by a > > > > > > > > > > > >> factor of 6 on the �Disturbed Zone� whilst increasing its metabolism to advance > > > > > > > > > > > >> Tryptophan in compensation. This reaction was highly significant. > > > > > > > > > > > >> The three Immunoglobulins > > > > > > > > > > > >> that were examined; IgA, IgG, and IgM showed clear reactions on the geopathic > > > > > > > > > > > >> zones. Immunoglobulin IgA showing the highest significant drop. These values > > > > > > > > > > > >> later normalised when latter blood samples were analysed when the subjects were > > > > > > > > > > > >> tested on the �neutral zone�." > > > > > > > > > > > >> blessings,LizzieTo: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: arendgb@... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:14:50 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Well, if some houses are haunted, then there are likely to be many more houses that are only believed to be haunted. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Stress can be caused by simply believing wild stories or imaginative tricks of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> I was stunned to see that this meter is promoted as a ghost-meter, not as a meter for environments where ghosts, if any, are more likely to be trapped. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> It only measures low-frequency magnetic fields ( a bit ), and in no way indicates how much emf there is in total. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Your argument that geopathic disturbances can explain the theory that some houses were haunted long before people had electricity is a valid one. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Geopathic stress is in general certainly a matter worth looking into. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually i think my holiday-house suffers from it, it stands on a slope with a river on one side, probably water is running underneath, perhaps influencing the static magnetic fields. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> There are always plenty of (stinging ) nettles in the garden, which is supposed to be a bad sign. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually, this may interest you, some years ago after hearing my complaints about the energy-field, a ritual has been performed by a shamanistic friend, she said that quite a few trapped spirits of deceased people were led away, no evil creatures but rather victims, which resonates with what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> The energy-field in the house as experienced by me did not improve though, so the idea of ghosts remained a purely theoretical concept for me, with nothing substantial to back it up and make it appear as reality. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> It is nicely located house, with wonderful forests around and not many people, no emf apart from my own stuff and wiring which i am working on, it would be a shame to bulldoze it because of possible geopathic health-effects, you can't have everything perfect, especially in these "civilized" times. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Technically, this should fall under the umbrella of emfs and the health effects. It is very stressing on the immune system, to try to sleep in a house that feels haunted. Many times, it is the emfs, and particularly the high magnetic fields, plus the wireless radiationmultiplies these fields....and this can make the perfect conditons for a haunted house. NOT because the ghost's live on this energy, but because they get "trapped" inside of the high fields. Having lived across the street from a funeral home for years...I can tell you, houses with high emfs,and factor in geopathic stress, which is far more common then people think it is.......and this is a perfect recipe for a sick house. And emfs do quality as a sick house. And there are many factors that come into this. High emfs, geopathic stress. haunted houses all effect the immune system. And while some do not think geopathic stressis related to ES, I beg to differ with you. I believe the > > > > > > radiation from geopathic stress IS the original root of the source, andthen came along the cell phone proliferation disaster, and it didn't take 20 years to manifest disease and unhealth like geopathic stress,the effects were seen very fast. Radiation multiplies toxins/ heavy metals by 600% (Klinghardt) . My working theory is, radiation from Geopathic stress also multiplies or maybe more accurately,AMPLIFIES the effects of wireless radiation and amplifies the effects of bad wiring, high magnetic fields,and dirty electricity. Lizzie > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> From: arendgb@ > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 00:08:20 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, i would be surprised if these wild stories make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I also do not see how these still fit into this message-board. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It goes a little bit too far in my view, actually. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Not just the theories about ghosts, also the idea that these are "bad". > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It seems that cats like radiation too, and certain healthy plants and mushrooms, are these bad as well ? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, don't ask a mouse, not even a non-religious one, if cats are devils ! > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> People believed in ghosts long before there were any breakerboxes. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> But you can switch these off at night, "evil" creatures living off or captured by dirty electricity should leave as a result and at least it will reduce your emf-exposure during your sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --- In [hidden email], Patricia Robinett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> yes, i have a couple of 'ghost meters' - for $25... > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> and they compare to the other meters i have > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> used - a very expensive meter from the utility > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> company and a trifield meter borrowed from a > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> friend. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> i would not be surprised if bad electricity is food > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for bad energy creatures. poison to us, good > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for them. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everything is energy. love, patricia > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, fantasticsam131 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I bid on a meter like that on ebay recently. It wss sold for 28 dollars plus shipping. It measured frequencies in the 50-60 hertz range plus also the range for cell towers. They claimed it also was used for ghost hunting. I was going to buy it for just that reason. My bedroom has the breaker box in it and it is haunted. I have a different take on it though. These beings live on dirty electricity. Electricity which is bad to us is like food to them. There are ufo's near power lines that even pull power from the lines into their ufo's. There is a connection between ufo's and the paranormal. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Aimee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my subject line is just to say I know I put the cart before the horse... I ordered the K-2 Delux Meter on this page and now I am asking if anyone has had experience with them. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Yeah, EMF does scramble brains, and Jodi thinks she has problems on the wittless stand lol. Sorry, just an attempt at humor. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> http://lessemf.com/gauss.html#103 > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Will much appreciate any info > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! 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In reply to this post by Elizabeth thode
Wow, Liz...
Sounds like a great book. Is it on Amazon? Glad some members on here go way beyond the surface. But sadly, some people are so "earth-bound" that they seem to forget how truly limited we allow ourselves to be. OK- we don't see it, therefore it must not be... We don't believe it, therefore it must not be...We don't understand it, therefore it may not be... Wake-up...many times IT is! Oh well! How about, before there were telescopes and microscopes...lo or how do the blind see sometimes better than those with functioning eyes? Then, heaven help us, what if some people actually have perceptual impairments that they may not be aware of? Whatever... I need to get that book for my reference library. Mainstream science has written off the dowsing profession as non-scientific, so glad to be "out of the box." It seems the real knowledge these days sits outside of the banks of current science--which has actually helped to land the world into this projective chaos (applause). Even "scientists" cannot agree upon their own ever-evolving science. Uh...Nikola Tesla...uh I didn't learn about him in science. Well, uh...he played with many ideas that people couldn't see...uh...wireless? WHAT??? They blackballed a guy like that and left him out of the history books? WHAT??? He was the real conceptualist behind the radio phenom...WHAT??? I learned that it was Marconi. The science community can't lie or be biased or co-opted, right? Well, when hasn't it been co-opted? Ever hear of "higher education" or government secret technologies- UH exactly how much personal scientific investigation have we as individuals actually engaged in? I mean other than accepting or leaning towards the investigation of others. Whatever happened to the truly opened mind? Pam --- On Fri, 3/8/13, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 9:06 PM Awesome right back at ya, Pam! "Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. " Sometimes I think all of us Essers are seers. And many just don'trealize this. I just got this new book, called "Earth Radiation", big time seller inEurope. Tons of documented studies on geopathic stress. Its not a new book, but the info is exceptionally well documented.And plays a big role in our world today, with the increased earthquakesand solar flare activities.Wonder how many Essers are living in bad geopathic areas? Lizzie To: [hidden email] From: [hidden email] Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:06:16 -0800 Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late Awesome siting Lizzie! Well, done. Some people need to SEE with their eyes... Sadly scientists claim that humans of today can only SEE about 4% of what there actually is to be seen in the immediate universe. Our DNA and brains have been shown to be significantly under utilized, yet many of our so-called skeptics and intellectuals are willing to hang every ounce of their being on what so-called science (at the moment) conveys to be seen or "witnessed". Yet, science is modified every moment and humans still base assumptions on ALL that we CANNOT see- therefore CANNOT know! That's what I personally think about human's perceived limitations. We are able to "know" things at a sublime level--regardless of what "we" are able to see or believe to be "real." And then there are those would need to "BELIEVE" the official story no matter how contrived and manipulated it might be. To hell with what the ANCIENTS thought--- MODERN man has ALL the answers... to his own destruction-- because...EGO is a bitch! Geo stress is real to all who have the ability to feel it. Animals feel it. More and more humans will be able to feel it. Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. Dowsers are effective and most of the non-scientific natural healing modalities can be effective. Skeptics may call it placebo effect- but do you think that those healed care about what skeptics think? I was feeling geo-stress around the time that I first found out about it-- but I totally agree with the perception that geo-stress seems to amplify the frequencies including those carried by human emotions and human emf fields. It all seems to boost each other and makes for a nasty soup of toxic energies and vibrations. I don't personally know that EMF's are stronger than geopathic stress. I can tolerate a lot of EMF, but when the geo stress is really bad (as it has been over the past few months), sometimes it has been almost debilitating. Of course, one's own constitution is also significant at those times. A dowser can tell you the types of geopathic conditions you are dealing with and can quiet the energies for a time allowing for healing of the space and those who occupy (even for the neighbors, somewhat). There will always be experiences and phenomenon that will mystify and make skeptical certain types of mindsets-- just like some of us see the value in a society wanting to invest in the well being of it's citizens and some think that even the less fortunate should be dragged along. Quantum mechanics should move us into more possibilities and show people a glimpse into the minds of the great mystics and seers of all time. They knew something...here we are still trying to figure it all out. I'm beyond the trying to figure it all out. It is here and whether I accept or believe in it, someone out there is running with the knowledge and using it to transform their reality everyday. Have a great weekend! Pam --- On Thu, 3/7/13, ad <[hidden email]> wrote: From: ad <[hidden email]> Subject: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late To: [hidden email] Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 4:00 PM Thanks a lot for your feedback, i'll delve into it within a few days. I distinguish between true and false experiences, both might be illusions but there seems to be a fine line between existential impressions and imaginations. When people are on drugs it is easy to guess how non-sensible their experiences are, with paranormal folks it isn't that clear for me. Nevertheless my gut tells me that most ghost-hunters, ufo-followers and so forth are simply over-imaginative and lack common sense, they do not observe any astral or other finer realm at all. And even if they do, their observations are likely to be mixed up with false impressions. So i prefer to stay away from hoky stuff and tend to question wild theories that weak-minded people may fall for, and that are not likely to help anybody to live wisely at all, rather to the contrary. Reactions to emf can be measured in the body, so that you feel these does not surprise me, it can very well be ( what i call ) a true experience, just like the sun on ones skin. A research on this is discussed within this great film that you probably have seen already : https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ So you fed my interest in geopathic issues, i'll read a lot about it ! --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote: > > Interesting story, thanks for sharing that. Well, think about it: without a meter, its hard to "prove" to others that cell phones and wirelessemit radiation. And even WITH a meter, many don't believe this radiation is harmful. Some people are sensitive to wireless, some are sensitive to many different frequencies,and some are sensitive to the energies of what some call: "ghosts/spirits". Your Shamanist friend is very wise. There are methods to transmute Geopathic stress. But to my perspective, these methodsmust also include elimating other sources of emfs (IE: bad wiring, high magnetic fields, reducingwireless, ect).Just as an example, if an area, say an appliance that emits alot of dirty electricity, happensto BE in the direct path of Geopathic stress, the geopathic stress willl amplify the dirty electricity.This is my working theory. Can I prove this? Only in that I have FELT the difference in my body,in my mood, in my sleep. That's all the proof I need. However, the below article does say thesame thing. (see: www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html) Also, it is not wise to have one's bed over a place of geopathic stress. There are many articles/research about this very topic,and as many of ES symptoms are eerily similiar to geopathic stress symptoms,only much more severe, which makes sense, in that geopathic stress lines, are shown to be MOREpowerful, when combined with areas that are heavily polluted by electro pollution. Here's one, that does prove it, with testing.www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html(Its a long article but well worth the read!) "The global grids, like sha streams, show stronger parallel edge lines when they > are under stress, for example before an earth-quake, and also if they are > heavily electro-magnetically polluted. Research Results (This is just one study, there are many more listed in this article) > The project involved the > testing of 24 different biological parameters involving 985 trial volunteers in > 6,943 investigations using 462, 421 individual measurements. > The test results > were lined up by Biometric Significance and are valued with Serotonin > alteration, Blood Corpuscle Decline Speed and Immunoglobulin deficiencies in > lead position. > Serotonin decreased by a > factor of 6 on the �Disturbed Zone� whilst increasing its metabolism to advance > Tryptophan in compensation. This reaction was highly significant. > The three Immunoglobulins > that were examined; IgA, IgG, and IgM showed clear reactions on the geopathic > zones. Immunoglobulin IgA showing the highest significant drop. These values > later normalised when latter blood samples were analysed when the subjects were > tested on the �neutral zone�." > blessings,LizzieTo: [hidden email] > From: arendgb@... > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:14:50 +0000 > Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if some houses are haunted, then there are likely to be many more houses that are only believed to be haunted. > > Stress can be caused by simply believing wild stories or imaginative tricks of the mind. > > I was stunned to see that this meter is promoted as a ghost-meter, not as a meter for environments where ghosts, if any, are more likely to be trapped. > > It only measures low-frequency magnetic fields ( a bit ), and in no way indicates how much emf there is in total. > > Your argument that geopathic disturbances can explain the theory that some houses were haunted long before people had electricity is a valid one. > > Geopathic stress is in general certainly a matter worth looking into. > > Actually i think my holiday-house suffers from it, it stands on a slope with a river on one side, probably water is running underneath, perhaps influencing the static magnetic fields. > > There are always plenty of (stinging ) nettles in the garden, which is supposed to be a bad sign. > > Actually, this may interest you, some years ago after hearing my complaints about the energy-field, a ritual has been performed by a shamanistic friend, she said that quite a few trapped spirits of deceased people were led away, no evil creatures but rather victims, which resonates with what you are saying. > > The energy-field in the house as experienced by me did not improve though, so the idea of ghosts remained a purely theoretical concept for me, with nothing substantial to back it up and make it appear as reality. > > It is nicely located house, with wonderful forests around and not many people, no emf apart from my own stuff and wiring which i am working on, it would be a shame to bulldoze it because of possible geopathic health-effects, you can't have everything perfect, especially in these "civilized" times. > > > > --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote: > > > > > > Technically, this should fall under the umbrella of emfs and the health effects. It is very stressing on the immune system, to try to sleep in a house that feels haunted. Many times, it is the emfs, and particularly the high magnetic fields, plus the wireless radiationmultiplies these fields....and this can make the perfect conditons for a haunted house. NOT because the ghost's live on this energy, but because they get "trapped" inside of the high fields. Having lived across the street from a funeral home for years...I can tell you, houses with high emfs,and factor in geopathic stress, which is far more common then people think it is.......and this is a perfect recipe for a sick house. And emfs do quality as a sick house. And there are many factors that come into this. High emfs, geopathic stress. haunted houses all effect the immune system. And while some do not think geopathic stressis related to ES, I beg to differ with you. I believe the radiation from geopathic stress IS the original root of the source, andthen came along the cell phone proliferation disaster, and it didn't take 20 years to manifest disease and unhealth like geopathic stress,the effects were seen very fast. Radiation multiplies toxins/ heavy metals by 600% (Klinghardt) . My working theory is, radiation from Geopathic stress also multiplies or maybe more accurately,AMPLIFIES the effects of wireless radiation and amplifies the effects of bad wiring, high magnetic fields,and dirty electricity. Lizzie > > > To: [hidden email] > > > From: arendgb@ > > > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 00:08:20 +0000 > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, i would be surprised if these wild stories make any sense. > > > > > > I also do not see how these still fit into this message-board. > > > > > > It goes a little bit too far in my view, actually. > > > > > > Not just the theories about ghosts, also the idea that these are "bad". > > > > > > It seems that cats like radiation too, and certain healthy plants and mushrooms, are these bad as well ? > > > > > > Well, don't ask a mouse, not even a non-religious one, if cats are devils ! > > > > > > People believed in ghosts long before there were any breakerboxes. > > > > > > But you can switch these off at night, "evil" creatures living off or captured by dirty electricity should leave as a result and at least it will reduce your emf-exposure during your sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Patricia Robinett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes, i have a couple of 'ghost meters' - for $25... > > > > > > > and they compare to the other meters i have > > > > > > > used - a very expensive meter from the utility > > > > > > > company and a trifield meter borrowed from a > > > > > > > friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i would not be surprised if bad electricity is food > > > > > > > for bad energy creatures. poison to us, good > > > > > > > for them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everything is energy. love, patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, fantasticsam131 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bid on a meter like that on ebay recently. It wss sold for 28 dollars plus shipping. It measured frequencies in the 50-60 hertz range plus also the range for cell towers. They claimed it also was used for ghost hunting. I was going to buy it for just that reason. My bedroom has the breaker box in it and it is haunted. I have a different take on it though. These beings live on dirty electricity. Electricity which is bad to us is like food to them. There are ufo's near power lines that even pull power from the lines into their ufo's. There is a connection between ufo's and the paranormal. > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "Aimee" wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Hi all, > > > > > > > >> my subject line is just to say I know I put the cart before the horse... I ordered the K-2 Delux Meter on this page and now I am asking if anyone has had experience with them. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Yeah, EMF does scramble brains, and Jodi thinks she has problems on the wittless stand lol. Sorry, just an attempt at humor. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> http://lessemf.com/gauss.html#103 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Will much appreciate any info > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Aimee > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Then consider yourself very fortunate! Thing is, these mesurements are what yours show-someone elses may show far higher readings. So many different variables....anyone with a boiler hot water heating system, with the electrical grounded to the water pipes, all over the places, will undoubtedly show MUCH higher readings.
Many variables, each house is unique recipe, different factors. LizzieTo: [hidden email] From: [hidden email] Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:21:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late Pipes under the floor mag show a few nT. Metal springs in boxsprings may show more than 5000nT. The earth rays may show 1/1000th nT. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth thode To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late Oh yes, magnetic fields coming from beds is definitely an issue, however..........I don't know if the magnetic fields from metal springs, ect,. in a bed, would necessarilyqualify as "geopathic stress". One would have to rule out other factors; such as: high fields comingfrom radiator/baseboard heat, bad wiring, pipes under the floor, ect. My understanding of Geopathic stress is that it comes from the "earth". " Negative energies, also known as ‘harmful earth rays’, which emanate from the earth." LizzieTo: [hidden email] From: [hidden email] Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 12:24:36 +0100 Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late What abouit the geopathic stress coming from your bed? The static magnetical fields may be much larger than from an eart beam or underground waterflows. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: Rolf Muertter To: [hidden email] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late I agree. The more I learn, the more I realize that there is a connection between ES and geopathic stress. It may not be true for everyone, but I think it is for me. I became ES a little over a year ago when I moved from Maryland to Arizona because of mold illness. I decided to drive my car, which took four days. By the time I got to New Mexico, my symptoms had completely disappeared, and I felt like I was in perfect health. By the time I got to Tucson, I had lots of energy and had no trouble running errands and finding a hotel to stay and carrying all my things up two flights of stairs to my room. But when I woke up the next morning my headache, tinnitus, and fatigue were back. At first I thought it was mold illness again. It took me two months to figure out that it was actually ES. And I had a harder time trying to figure out what triggered it. Why did I never develop ES in the DC area where I had suffered from mold illness and Candidiasis for four years, had a demanding job, long commutes, and where there certainly was way more electrosmog than in Arizona? It took me even longer to realize that the difference is very likely geopathic stress. I think it has something to do with all the granite here, lots of water flowing underground, and little surface water. The only areas here where I can recover are those with few cell towers and lots of volcanic rock. Rolf On Mar 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > You are right! That is the book!Wanted this book for awhile.I think there's a definite connnectionbetween ES and Geopathic stress.What do you think? Lizzie > To: [hidden email] > From: [hidden email] > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:18:17 -0700 > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > Lizzie, thanks for the recommendation. The author is Käthe Bachler, and it was originally published in1976 in German. It was translated in 1984. Anyone interested can check it out here: http://books.google.com/books?id=W5UmV8Y0CL4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false > > > > Rolf > > > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > > > Awesome right back at ya, Pam! "Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. " > > > Sometimes I think all of us Essers are seers. And many just don'trealize this. I just got this new book, called "Earth Radiation", big time seller inEurope. Tons of documented studies on geopathic stress. Its not a new book, but the info is exceptionally well documented.And plays a big role in our world today, with the increased earthquakesand solar flare activities.Wonder how many Essers are living in bad geopathic areas? Lizzie To: [hidden email] > > > From: [hidden email] > > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:06:16 -0800 > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awesome siting Lizzie! > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, done. Some people need to SEE with their eyes... Sadly scientists claim that humans of today can only SEE about 4% of what there actually is to be seen in the immediate universe. Our DNA and brains have been shown to be significantly under utilized, yet many of our so-called skeptics and intellectuals are willing to hang every ounce of their being on what so-called science (at the moment) conveys to be seen or "witnessed". Yet, science is modified every moment and humans still base assumptions on ALL that we CANNOT see- therefore CANNOT know! That's what I personally think about human's perceived limitations. We are able to "know" things at a sublime level--regardless of what "we" are able to see or believe to be "real." > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there are those would need to "BELIEVE" the official story no matter how contrived and manipulated it might be. To hell with what the ANCIENTS thought--- MODERN man has ALL the answers... to his own destruction-- because...EGO is a bitch! > > > > > > > > > > > > Geo stress is real to all who have the ability to feel it. Animals feel it. More and more humans will be able to feel it. Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. Dowsers are effective and most of the non-scientific natural healing modalities can be effective. Skeptics may call it placebo effect- but do you think that those healed care about what skeptics think? > > > > > > > > > > > > I was feeling geo-stress around the time that I first found out about it-- but I totally agree with the perception that geo-stress seems to amplify the frequencies including those carried by human emotions and human emf fields. It all seems to boost each other and makes for a nasty soup of toxic energies and vibrations. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't personally know that EMF's are stronger than geopathic stress. I can tolerate a lot of EMF, but when the geo stress is really bad (as it has been over the past few months), sometimes it has been almost debilitating. Of course, one's own constitution is also significant at those times. A dowser can tell you the types of geopathic conditions you are dealing with and can quiet the energies for a time allowing for healing of the space and those who occupy (even for the neighbors, somewhat). > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be experiences and phenomenon that will mystify and make skeptical certain types of mindsets-- just like some of us see the value in a society wanting to invest in the well being of it's citizens and some think that even the less fortunate should be dragged along. Quantum mechanics should move us into more possibilities and show people a glimpse into the minds of the great mystics and seers of all time. They knew something...here we are still trying to figure it all out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm beyond the trying to figure it all out. It is here and whether I accept or believe in it, someone out there is running with the knowledge and using it to transform their reality everyday. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great weekend! > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 3/7/13, ad <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ad <[hidden email]> > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 4:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your feedback, i'll delve into it within a few days. > > > > > > > > > > > > I distinguish between true and false experiences, both might be illusions but there seems to be a fine line between existential impressions and imaginations. > > > > > > > > > > > > When people are on drugs it is easy to guess how non-sensible their experiences are, with paranormal folks it isn't that clear for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless my gut tells me that most ghost-hunters, ufo-followers and so forth are simply over-imaginative and lack common sense, they do not observe any astral or other finer realm at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > And even if they do, their observations are likely to be mixed up with false impressions. > > > > > > > > > > > > So i prefer to stay away from hoky stuff and tend to question wild theories that weak-minded people may fall for, and that are not likely to help anybody to live wisely at all, rather to the contrary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reactions to emf can be measured in the body, so that you feel these does not surprise me, it can very well be ( what i call ) a true experience, just like the sun on ones skin. > > > > > > > > > > > > A research on this is discussed within this great film that you probably have seen already : > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ > > > > > > > > > > > > So you fed my interest in geopathic issues, i'll read a lot about it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Interesting story, thanks for sharing that. Well, think about it: without a meter, its hard to "prove" to others that cell phones and wirelessemit radiation. And even WITH a meter, many don't believe this radiation is harmful. Some people are sensitive to wireless, some are sensitive to many different frequencies,and some are sensitive to the energies of what some call: "ghosts/spirits". Your Shamanist friend is very wise. There are methods to transmute Geopathic stress. But to my perspective, these methodsmust also include elimating other sources of emfs (IE: bad wiring, high magnetic fields, reducingwireless, ect).Just as an example, if an area, say an appliance that emits alot of dirty electricity, happensto BE in the direct path of Geopathic stress, the geopathic stress willl amplify the dirty electricity.This is my working theory. Can I prove this? Only in that I have FELT the difference in my body,in my mood, in my sleep. That's all the proof I > > > > > > need. However, the below article does say thesame thing. (see: www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html) Also, it is not wise to have one's bed over a place of geopathic stress. There are many articles/research about this very topic,and as many of ES symptoms are eerily similiar to geopathic stress symptoms,only much more severe, which makes sense, in that geopathic stress lines, are shown to be MOREpowerful, when combined with areas that are heavily polluted by electro pollution. Here's one, that does prove it, with testing.www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html(Its a long article but well worth the read!) "The global grids, like sha streams, show stronger parallel edge lines when they > > > > > > > > > > > >> are under stress, for example before an earth-quake, and also if they are > > > > > > > > > > > >> heavily electro-magnetically polluted. Research Results (This is just one study, there are many more listed in this article) > > > > > > > > > > > >> The project involved the > > > > > > > > > > > >> testing of 24 different biological parameters involving 985 trial volunteers in > > > > > > > > > > > >> 6,943 investigations using 462, 421 individual measurements. > > > > > > > > > > > >> The test results > > > > > > > > > > > >> were lined up by Biometric Significance and are valued with Serotonin > > > > > > > > > > > >> alteration, Blood Corpuscle Decline Speed and Immunoglobulin deficiencies in > > > > > > > > > > > >> lead position. > > > > > > > > > > > >> Serotonin decreased by a > > > > > > > > > > > >> factor of 6 on the �Disturbed Zone� whilst increasing its metabolism to advance > > > > > > > > > > > >> Tryptophan in compensation. This reaction was highly significant. > > > > > > > > > > > >> The three Immunoglobulins > > > > > > > > > > > >> that were examined; IgA, IgG, and IgM showed clear reactions on the geopathic > > > > > > > > > > > >> zones. Immunoglobulin IgA showing the highest significant drop. These values > > > > > > > > > > > >> later normalised when latter blood samples were analysed when the subjects were > > > > > > > > > > > >> tested on the �neutral zone�." > > > > > > > > > > > >> blessings,LizzieTo: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: arendgb@... > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:14:50 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Well, if some houses are haunted, then there are likely to be many more houses that are only believed to be haunted. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Stress can be caused by simply believing wild stories or imaginative tricks of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> I was stunned to see that this meter is promoted as a ghost-meter, not as a meter for environments where ghosts, if any, are more likely to be trapped. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> It only measures low-frequency magnetic fields ( a bit ), and in no way indicates how much emf there is in total. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Your argument that geopathic disturbances can explain the theory that some houses were haunted long before people had electricity is a valid one. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Geopathic stress is in general certainly a matter worth looking into. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually i think my holiday-house suffers from it, it stands on a slope with a river on one side, probably water is running underneath, perhaps influencing the static magnetic fields. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> There are always plenty of (stinging ) nettles in the garden, which is supposed to be a bad sign. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually, this may interest you, some years ago after hearing my complaints about the energy-field, a ritual has been performed by a shamanistic friend, she said that quite a few trapped spirits of deceased people were led away, no evil creatures but rather victims, which resonates with what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> The energy-field in the house as experienced by me did not improve though, so the idea of ghosts remained a purely theoretical concept for me, with nothing substantial to back it up and make it appear as reality. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> It is nicely located house, with wonderful forests around and not many people, no emf apart from my own stuff and wiring which i am working on, it would be a shame to bulldoze it because of possible geopathic health-effects, you can't have everything perfect, especially in these "civilized" times. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Technically, this should fall under the umbrella of emfs and the health effects. It is very stressing on the immune system, to try to sleep in a house that feels haunted. Many times, it is the emfs, and particularly the high magnetic fields, plus the wireless radiationmultiplies these fields....and this can make the perfect conditons for a haunted house. NOT because the ghost's live on this energy, but because they get "trapped" inside of the high fields. Having lived across the street from a funeral home for years...I can tell you, houses with high emfs,and factor in geopathic stress, which is far more common then people think it is.......and this is a perfect recipe for a sick house. And emfs do quality as a sick house. And there are many factors that come into this. High emfs, geopathic stress. haunted houses all effect the immune system. And while some do not think geopathic stressis related to ES, I beg to differ with you. I believe the > > > > > > radiation from geopathic stress IS the original root of the source, andthen came along the cell phone proliferation disaster, and it didn't take 20 years to manifest disease and unhealth like geopathic stress,the effects were seen very fast. Radiation multiplies toxins/ heavy metals by 600% (Klinghardt) . My working theory is, radiation from Geopathic stress also multiplies or maybe more accurately,AMPLIFIES the effects of wireless radiation and amplifies the effects of bad wiring, high magnetic fields,and dirty electricity. Lizzie > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> From: arendgb@ > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 00:08:20 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, i would be surprised if these wild stories make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I also do not see how these still fit into this message-board. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It goes a little bit too far in my view, actually. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Not just the theories about ghosts, also the idea that these are "bad". > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It seems that cats like radiation too, and certain healthy plants and mushrooms, are these bad as well ? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, don't ask a mouse, not even a non-religious one, if cats are devils ! > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> People believed in ghosts long before there were any breakerboxes. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> But you can switch these off at night, "evil" creatures living off or captured by dirty electricity should leave as a result and at least it will reduce your emf-exposure during your sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --- In [hidden email], Patricia Robinett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> yes, i have a couple of 'ghost meters' - for $25... > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> and they compare to the other meters i have > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> used - a very expensive meter from the utility > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> company and a trifield meter borrowed from a > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> friend. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> i would not be surprised if bad electricity is food > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for bad energy creatures. poison to us, good > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for them. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everything is energy. love, patricia > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, fantasticsam131 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I bid on a meter like that on ebay recently. It wss sold for 28 dollars plus shipping. It measured frequencies in the 50-60 hertz range plus also the range for cell towers. They claimed it also was used for ghost hunting. I was going to buy it for just that reason. My bedroom has the breaker box in it and it is haunted. I have a different take on it though. These beings live on dirty electricity. Electricity which is bad to us is like food to them. There are ufo's near power lines that even pull power from the lines into their ufo's. There is a connection between ufo's and the paranormal. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Aimee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my subject line is just to say I know I put the cart before the horse... I ordered the K-2 Delux Meter on this page and now I am asking if anyone has had experience with them. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Yeah, EMF does scramble brains, and Jodi thinks she has problems on the wittless stand lol. Sorry, just an attempt at humor. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> http://lessemf.com/gauss.html#103 > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Will much appreciate any info > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
I sleep on a wooden futon. I also tried sleeping in different areas, but there was no difference. Also, I power the house down at night. And when I sit in the backyard, where levels of radiation are lower than inside, my headache gets worse after about 5 - 10 minutes. I believe it's caused by the big metal gate in the cement block wall. A similar thing happens when I'm in the nearby state park, where levels of microwaves are even lower, < 0.05 V/m. Whenever I sit down on a bench, my headache gets worse after a few minutes. The benches are all anchored in the ground with metal legs. It also happens whenever I linger in a wash. There is probably water running underground. This doesn't happen in another state park i little further out that's volcanic in origin.
Rolf On Mar 9, 2013, at 4:24 AM, charles wrote: > What abouit the geopathic stress coming from your bed? > > The static magnetical fields may be much larger than from an eart beam or underground waterflows. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rolf Muertter > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > I agree. The more I learn, the more I realize that there is a connection between ES and geopathic stress. It may not be true for everyone, but I think it is for me. I became ES a little over a year ago when I moved from Maryland to Arizona because of mold illness. I decided to drive my car, which took four days. By the time I got to New Mexico, my symptoms had completely disappeared, and I felt like I was in perfect health. By the time I got to Tucson, I had lots of energy and had no trouble running errands and finding a hotel to stay and carrying all my things up two flights of stairs to my room. But when I woke up the next morning my headache, tinnitus, and fatigue were back. > > At first I thought it was mold illness again. It took me two months to figure out that it was actually ES. And I had a harder time trying to figure out what triggered it. Why did I never develop ES in the DC area where I had suffered from mold illness and Candidiasis for four years, had a demanding job, long commutes, and where there certainly was way more electrosmog than in Arizona? It took me even longer to realize that the difference is very likely geopathic stress. I think it has something to do with all the granite here, lots of water flowing underground, and little surface water. The only areas here where I can recover are those with few cell towers and lots of volcanic rock. > > Rolf > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > You are right! That is the book!Wanted this book for awhile.I think there's a definite connnectionbetween ES and Geopathic stress.What do you think? Lizzie > > To: [hidden email] > > From: [hidden email] > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:18:17 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > Lizzie, thanks for the recommendation. The author is Käthe Bachler, and it was originally published in1976 in German. It was translated in 1984. Anyone interested can check it out here: http://books.google.com/books?id=W5UmV8Y0CL4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false > > > > > > > > Rolf > > > > > > > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > > > > > > > Awesome right back at ya, Pam! "Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. " > > > > > Sometimes I think all of us Essers are seers. And many just don'trealize this. I just got this new book, called "Earth Radiation", big time seller inEurope. Tons of documented studies on geopathic stress. Its not a new book, but the info is exceptionally well documented.And plays a big role in our world today, with the increased earthquakesand solar flare activities.Wonder how many Essers are living in bad geopathic areas? Lizzie To: [hidden email] > > > > > From: [hidden email] > > > > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:06:16 -0800 > > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awesome siting Lizzie! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, done. Some people need to SEE with their eyes... Sadly scientists claim that humans of today can only SEE about 4% of what there actually is to be seen in the immediate universe. Our DNA and brains have been shown to be significantly under utilized, yet many of our so-called skeptics and intellectuals are willing to hang every ounce of their being on what so-called science (at the moment) conveys to be seen or "witnessed". Yet, science is modified every moment and humans still base assumptions on ALL that we CANNOT see- therefore CANNOT know! That's what I personally think about human's perceived limitations. We are able to "know" things at a sublime level--regardless of what "we" are able to see or believe to be "real." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there are those would need to "BELIEVE" the official story no matter how contrived and manipulated it might be. To hell with what the ANCIENTS thought--- MODERN man has ALL the answers... to his own destruction-- because...EGO is a bitch! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Geo stress is real to all who have the ability to feel it. Animals feel it. More and more humans will be able to feel it. Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. Dowsers are effective and most of the non-scientific natural healing modalities can be effective. Skeptics may call it placebo effect- but do you think that those healed care about what skeptics think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was feeling geo-stress around the time that I first found out about it-- but I totally agree with the perception that geo-stress seems to amplify the frequencies including those carried by human emotions and human emf fields. It all seems to boost each other and makes for a nasty soup of toxic energies and vibrations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't personally know that EMF's are stronger than geopathic stress. I can tolerate a lot of EMF, but when the geo stress is really bad (as it has been over the past few months), sometimes it has been almost debilitating. Of course, one's own constitution is also significant at those times. A dowser can tell you the types of geopathic conditions you are dealing with and can quiet the energies for a time allowing for healing of the space and those who occupy (even for the neighbors, somewhat). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be experiences and phenomenon that will mystify and make skeptical certain types of mindsets-- just like some of us see the value in a society wanting to invest in the well being of it's citizens and some think that even the less fortunate should be dragged along. Quantum mechanics should move us into more possibilities and show people a glimpse into the minds of the great mystics and seers of all time. They knew something...here we are still trying to figure it all out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm beyond the trying to figure it all out. It is here and whether I accept or believe in it, someone out there is running with the knowledge and using it to transform their reality everyday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great weekend! > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 3/7/13, ad <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ad <[hidden email]> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 4:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your feedback, i'll delve into it within a few days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I distinguish between true and false experiences, both might be illusions but there seems to be a fine line between existential impressions and imaginations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people are on drugs it is easy to guess how non-sensible their experiences are, with paranormal folks it isn't that clear for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless my gut tells me that most ghost-hunters, ufo-followers and so forth are simply over-imaginative and lack common sense, they do not observe any astral or other finer realm at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And even if they do, their observations are likely to be mixed up with false impressions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So i prefer to stay away from hoky stuff and tend to question wild theories that weak-minded people may fall for, and that are not likely to help anybody to live wisely at all, rather to the contrary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reactions to emf can be measured in the body, so that you feel these does not surprise me, it can very well be ( what i call ) a true experience, just like the sun on ones skin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A research on this is discussed within this great film that you probably have seen already : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you fed my interest in geopathic issues, i'll read a lot about it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Interesting story, thanks for sharing that. Well, think about it: without a meter, its hard to "prove" to others that cell phones and wirelessemit radiation. And even WITH a meter, many don't believe this radiation is harmful. Some people are sensitive to wireless, some are sensitive to many different frequencies,and some are sensitive to the energies of what some call: "ghosts/spirits". Your Shamanist friend is very wise. There are methods to transmute Geopathic stress. But to my perspective, these methodsmust also include elimating other sources of emfs (IE: bad wiring, high magnetic fields, reducingwireless, ect).Just as an example, if an area, say an appliance that emits alot of dirty electricity, happensto BE in the direct path of Geopathic stress, the geopathic stress willl amplify the dirty electricity.This is my working theory. Can I prove this? Only in that I have FELT the difference in my body,in my mood, in my sleep. That's all the proof I > > > > > > > > > > need. However, the below article does say thesame thing. (see: www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html) Also, it is not wise to have one's bed over a place of geopathic stress. There are many articles/research about this very topic,and as many of ES symptoms are eerily similiar to geopathic stress symptoms,only much more severe, which makes sense, in that geopathic stress lines, are shown to be MOREpowerful, when combined with areas that are heavily polluted by electro pollution. Here's one, that does prove it, with testing.www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html(Its a long article but well worth the read!) "The global grids, like sha streams, show stronger parallel edge lines when they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> are under stress, for example before an earth-quake, and also if they are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> heavily electro-magnetically polluted. Research Results (This is just one study, there are many more listed in this article) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The project involved the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> testing of 24 different biological parameters involving 985 trial volunteers in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 6,943 investigations using 462, 421 individual measurements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The test results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> were lined up by Biometric Significance and are valued with Serotonin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> alteration, Blood Corpuscle Decline Speed and Immunoglobulin deficiencies in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> lead position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Serotonin decreased by a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> factor of 6 on the �Disturbed Zone� whilst increasing its metabolism to advance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Tryptophan in compensation. This reaction was highly significant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The three Immunoglobulins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> that were examined; IgA, IgG, and IgM showed clear reactions on the geopathic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> zones. Immunoglobulin IgA showing the highest significant drop. These values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> later normalised when latter blood samples were analysed when the subjects were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> tested on the �neutral zone�." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> blessings,LizzieTo: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: arendgb@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:14:50 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Well, if some houses are haunted, then there are likely to be many more houses that are only believed to be haunted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Stress can be caused by simply believing wild stories or imaginative tricks of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I was stunned to see that this meter is promoted as a ghost-meter, not as a meter for environments where ghosts, if any, are more likely to be trapped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It only measures low-frequency magnetic fields ( a bit ), and in no way indicates how much emf there is in total. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Your argument that geopathic disturbances can explain the theory that some houses were haunted long before people had electricity is a valid one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Geopathic stress is in general certainly a matter worth looking into. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually i think my holiday-house suffers from it, it stands on a slope with a river on one side, probably water is running underneath, perhaps influencing the static magnetic fields. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> There are always plenty of (stinging ) nettles in the garden, which is supposed to be a bad sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually, this may interest you, some years ago after hearing my complaints about the energy-field, a ritual has been performed by a shamanistic friend, she said that quite a few trapped spirits of deceased people were led away, no evil creatures but rather victims, which resonates with what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The energy-field in the house as experienced by me did not improve though, so the idea of ghosts remained a purely theoretical concept for me, with nothing substantial to back it up and make it appear as reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It is nicely located house, with wonderful forests around and not many people, no emf apart from my own stuff and wiring which i am working on, it would be a shame to bulldoze it because of possible geopathic health-effects, you can't have everything perfect, especially in these "civilized" times. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Technically, this should fall under the umbrella of emfs and the health effects. It is very stressing on the immune system, to try to sleep in a house that feels haunted. Many times, it is the emfs, and particularly the high magnetic fields, plus the wireless radiationmultiplies these fields....and this can make the perfect conditons for a haunted house. NOT because the ghost's live on this energy, but because they get "trapped" inside of the high fields. Having lived across the street from a funeral home for years...I can tell you, houses with high emfs,and factor in geopathic stress, which is far more common then people think it is.......and this is a perfect recipe for a sick house. And emfs do quality as a sick house. And there are many factors that come into this. High emfs, geopathic stress. haunted houses all effect the immune system. And while some do not think geopathic stressis related to ES, I beg to differ with you. I believe the > > > > > > > > > > radiation from geopathic stress IS the original root of the source, andthen came along the cell phone proliferation disaster, and it didn't take 20 years to manifest disease and unhealth like geopathic stress,the effects were seen very fast. Radiation multiplies toxins/ heavy metals by 600% (Klinghardt) . My working theory is, radiation from Geopathic stress also multiplies or maybe more accurately,AMPLIFIES the effects of wireless radiation and amplifies the effects of bad wiring, high magnetic fields,and dirty electricity. Lizzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> From: arendgb@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 00:08:20 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, i would be surprised if these wild stories make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I also do not see how these still fit into this message-board. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It goes a little bit too far in my view, actually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Not just the theories about ghosts, also the idea that these are "bad". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It seems that cats like radiation too, and certain healthy plants and mushrooms, are these bad as well ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, don't ask a mouse, not even a non-religious one, if cats are devils ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> People believed in ghosts long before there were any breakerboxes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> But you can switch these off at night, "evil" creatures living off or captured by dirty electricity should leave as a result and at least it will reduce your emf-exposure during your sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --- In [hidden email], Patricia Robinett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> yes, i have a couple of 'ghost meters' - for $25... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> and they compare to the other meters i have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> used - a very expensive meter from the utility > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> company and a trifield meter borrowed from a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> i would not be surprised if bad electricity is food > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for bad energy creatures. poison to us, good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everything is energy. love, patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, fantasticsam131 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I bid on a meter like that on ebay recently. It wss sold for 28 dollars plus shipping. It measured frequencies in the 50-60 hertz range plus also the range for cell towers. They claimed it also was used for ghost hunting. I was going to buy it for just that reason. My bedroom has the breaker box in it and it is haunted. I have a different take on it though. These beings live on dirty electricity. Electricity which is bad to us is like food to them. There are ufo's near power lines that even pull power from the lines into their ufo's. There is a connection between ufo's and the paranormal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Aimee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my subject line is just to say I know I put the cart before the horse... I ordered the K-2 Delux Meter on this page and now I am asking if anyone has had experience with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Yeah, EMF does scramble brains, and Jodi thinks she has problems on the wittless stand lol. Sorry, just an attempt at humor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> http://lessemf.com/gauss.html#103 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Will much appreciate any info > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Rolf,
I once read that there are meters that can pick up various radiations emitting from the earth. At varying times of day you may be effected by varying radon exposures as well as microwaves and gamma radiations. Underground sha streams can be a factor. I would recommend the meter and maybe a dowser, as well. You may be surprised. Pam --- On Sat, 3/9/13, Rolf Muertter <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Rolf Muertter <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, March 9, 2013, 3:16 PM I sleep on a wooden futon. I also tried sleeping in different areas, but there was no difference. Also, I power the house down at night. And when I sit in the backyard, where levels of radiation are lower than inside, my headache gets worse after about 5 - 10 minutes. I believe it's caused by the big metal gate in the cement block wall. A similar thing happens when I'm in the nearby state park, where levels of microwaves are even lower, < 0.05 V/m. Whenever I sit down on a bench, my headache gets worse after a few minutes. The benches are all anchored in the ground with metal legs. It also happens whenever I linger in a wash. There is probably water running underground. This doesn't happen in another state park i little further out that's volcanic in origin. Rolf On Mar 9, 2013, at 4:24 AM, charles wrote: > What abouit the geopathic stress coming from your bed? > > The static magnetical fields may be much larger than from an eart beam or underground waterflows. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rolf Muertter > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > I agree. The more I learn, the more I realize that there is a connection between ES and geopathic stress. It may not be true for everyone, but I think it is for me. I became ES a little over a year ago when I moved from Maryland to Arizona because of mold illness. I decided to drive my car, which took four days. By the time I got to New Mexico, my symptoms had completely disappeared, and I felt like I was in perfect health. By the time I got to Tucson, I had lots of energy and had no trouble running errands and finding a hotel to stay and carrying all my things up two flights of stairs to my room. But when I woke up the next morning my headache, tinnitus, and fatigue were back. > > At first I thought it was mold illness again. It took me two months to figure out that it was actually ES. And I had a harder time trying to figure out what triggered it. Why did I never develop ES in the DC area where I had suffered from mold illness and Candidiasis for four years, had a demanding job, long commutes, and where there certainly was way more electrosmog than in Arizona? It took me even longer to realize that the difference is very likely geopathic stress. I think it has something to do with all the granite here, lots of water flowing underground, and little surface water. The only areas here where I can recover are those with few cell towers and lots of volcanic rock. > > Rolf > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > You are right! That is the book!Wanted this book for awhile.I think there's a definite connnectionbetween ES and Geopathic stress.What do you think? Lizzie > > To: [hidden email] > > From: [hidden email] > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:18:17 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > Lizzie, thanks for the recommendation. The author is Käthe Bachler, and it was originally published in1976 in German. It was translated in 1984. Anyone interested can check it out here: http://books.google.com/books?id=W5UmV8Y0CL4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false > > > > > > > > Rolf > > > > > > > > On Mar 8, 2013, at 7:06 PM, Elizabeth thode wrote: > > > > > > > > > Awesome right back at ya, Pam! "Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. " > > > > > Sometimes I think all of us Essers are seers. And many just don'trealize this. I just got this new book, called "Earth Radiation", big time seller inEurope. Tons of documented studies on geopathic stress. Its not a new book, but the info is exceptionally well documented.And plays a big role in our world today, with the increased earthquakesand solar flare activities.Wonder how many Essers are living in bad geopathic areas? Lizzie To: [hidden email] > > > > > From: [hidden email] > > > > > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:06:16 -0800 > > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awesome siting Lizzie! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, done. Some people need to SEE with their eyes... Sadly scientists claim that humans of today can only SEE about 4% of what there actually is to be seen in the immediate universe. Our DNA and brains have been shown to be significantly under utilized, yet many of our so-called skeptics and intellectuals are willing to hang every ounce of their being on what so-called science (at the moment) conveys to be seen or "witnessed". Yet, science is modified every moment and humans still base assumptions on ALL that we CANNOT see- therefore CANNOT know! That's what I personally think about human's perceived limitations. We are able to "know" things at a sublime level--regardless of what "we" are able to see or believe to be "real." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there are those would need to "BELIEVE" the official story no matter how contrived and manipulated it might be. To hell with what the ANCIENTS thought--- MODERN man has ALL the answers... to his own destruction-- because...EGO is a bitch! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Geo stress is real to all who have the ability to feel it. Animals feel it. More and more humans will be able to feel it. Until then, the seers will see, the feelers will feel. Dowsers are effective and most of the non-scientific natural healing modalities can be effective. Skeptics may call it placebo effect- but do you think that those healed care about what skeptics think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was feeling geo-stress around the time that I first found out about it-- but I totally agree with the perception that geo-stress seems to amplify the frequencies including those carried by human emotions and human emf fields. It all seems to boost each other and makes for a nasty soup of toxic energies and vibrations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't personally know that EMF's are stronger than geopathic stress. I can tolerate a lot of EMF, but when the geo stress is really bad (as it has been over the past few months), sometimes it has been almost debilitating. Of course, one's own constitution is also significant at those times. A dowser can tell you the types of geopathic conditions you are dealing with and can quiet the energies for a time allowing for healing of the space and those who occupy (even for the neighbors, somewhat). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be experiences and phenomenon that will mystify and make skeptical certain types of mindsets-- just like some of us see the value in a society wanting to invest in the well being of it's citizens and some think that even the less fortunate should be dragged along. Quantum mechanics should move us into more possibilities and show people a glimpse into the minds of the great mystics and seers of all time. They knew something...here we are still trying to figure it all out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm beyond the trying to figure it all out. It is here and whether I accept or believe in it, someone out there is running with the knowledge and using it to transform their reality everyday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great weekend! > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 3/7/13, ad <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: ad <[hidden email]> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Changed to Geopathic stressToo smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 7, 2013, 4:00 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your feedback, i'll delve into it within a few days. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I distinguish between true and false experiences, both might be illusions but there seems to be a fine line between existential impressions and imaginations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When people are on drugs it is easy to guess how non-sensible their experiences are, with paranormal folks it isn't that clear for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless my gut tells me that most ghost-hunters, ufo-followers and so forth are simply over-imaginative and lack common sense, they do not observe any astral or other finer realm at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And even if they do, their observations are likely to be mixed up with false impressions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So i prefer to stay away from hoky stuff and tend to question wild theories that weak-minded people may fall for, and that are not likely to help anybody to live wisely at all, rather to the contrary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reactions to emf can be measured in the body, so that you feel these does not surprise me, it can very well be ( what i call ) a true experience, just like the sun on ones skin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A research on this is discussed within this great film that you probably have seen already : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5vb9R0x_0NQ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you fed my interest in geopathic issues, i'll read a lot about it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Interesting story, thanks for sharing that. Well, think about it: without a meter, its hard to "prove" to others that cell phones and wirelessemit radiation. And even WITH a meter, many don't believe this radiation is harmful. Some people are sensitive to wireless, some are sensitive to many different frequencies,and some are sensitive to the energies of what some call: "ghosts/spirits". Your Shamanist friend is very wise. There are methods to transmute Geopathic stress. But to my perspective, these methodsmust also include elimating other sources of emfs (IE: bad wiring, high magnetic fields, reducingwireless, ect).Just as an example, if an area, say an appliance that emits alot of dirty electricity, happensto BE in the direct path of Geopathic stress, the geopathic stress willl amplify the dirty electricity.This is my working theory. Can I prove this? Only in that I have FELT the difference in my body,in my mood, in my sleep. That's all the proof I > > > > > > > > > > need. However, the below article does say thesame thing. (see: www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html) Also, it is not wise to have one's bed over a place of geopathic stress. There are many articles/research about this very topic,and as many of ES symptoms are eerily similiar to geopathic stress symptoms,only much more severe, which makes sense, in that geopathic stress lines, are shown to be MOREpowerful, when combined with areas that are heavily polluted by electro pollution. Here's one, that does prove it, with testing.www.landandspirit.net/html/body_geopathic_stress.html(Its a long article but well worth the read!) "The global grids, like sha streams, show stronger parallel edge lines when they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> are under stress, for example before an earth-quake, and also if they are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> heavily electro-magnetically polluted. Research Results (This is just one study, there are many more listed in this article) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The project involved the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> testing of 24 different biological parameters involving 985 trial volunteers in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 6,943 investigations using 462, 421 individual measurements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The test results > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> were lined up by Biometric Significance and are valued with Serotonin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> alteration, Blood Corpuscle Decline Speed and Immunoglobulin deficiencies in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> lead position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Serotonin decreased by a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> factor of 6 on the �Disturbed Zone� whilst increasing its metabolism to advance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Tryptophan in compensation. This reaction was highly significant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The three Immunoglobulins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> that were examined; IgA, IgG, and IgM showed clear reactions on the geopathic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> zones. Immunoglobulin IgA showing the highest significant drop. These values > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> later normalised when latter blood samples were analysed when the subjects were > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> tested on the �neutral zone�." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> blessings,LizzieTo: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: arendgb@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:14:50 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Well, if some houses are haunted, then there are likely to be many more houses that are only believed to be haunted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Stress can be caused by simply believing wild stories or imaginative tricks of the mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I was stunned to see that this meter is promoted as a ghost-meter, not as a meter for environments where ghosts, if any, are more likely to be trapped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It only measures low-frequency magnetic fields ( a bit ), and in no way indicates how much emf there is in total. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Your argument that geopathic disturbances can explain the theory that some houses were haunted long before people had electricity is a valid one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Geopathic stress is in general certainly a matter worth looking into. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually i think my holiday-house suffers from it, it stands on a slope with a river on one side, probably water is running underneath, perhaps influencing the static magnetic fields. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> There are always plenty of (stinging ) nettles in the garden, which is supposed to be a bad sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Actually, this may interest you, some years ago after hearing my complaints about the energy-field, a ritual has been performed by a shamanistic friend, she said that quite a few trapped spirits of deceased people were led away, no evil creatures but rather victims, which resonates with what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> The energy-field in the house as experienced by me did not improve though, so the idea of ghosts remained a purely theoretical concept for me, with nothing substantial to back it up and make it appear as reality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It is nicely located house, with wonderful forests around and not many people, no emf apart from my own stuff and wiring which i am working on, it would be a shame to bulldoze it because of possible geopathic health-effects, you can't have everything perfect, especially in these "civilized" times. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> --- In [hidden email], Elizabeth thode <lizt777@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Technically, this should fall under the umbrella of emfs and the health effects. It is very stressing on the immune system, to try to sleep in a house that feels haunted. Many times, it is the emfs, and particularly the high magnetic fields, plus the wireless radiationmultiplies these fields....and this can make the perfect conditons for a haunted house. NOT because the ghost's live on this energy, but because they get "trapped" inside of the high fields. Having lived across the street from a funeral home for years...I can tell you, houses with high emfs,and factor in geopathic stress, which is far more common then people think it is.......and this is a perfect recipe for a sick house. And emfs do quality as a sick house. And there are many factors that come into this. High emfs, geopathic stress. haunted houses all effect the immune system. And while some do not think geopathic stressis related to ES, I beg to differ with you. I believe the > > > > > > > > > > radiation from geopathic stress IS the original root of the source, andthen came along the cell phone proliferation disaster, and it didn't take 20 years to manifest disease and unhealth like geopathic stress,the effects were seen very fast. Radiation multiplies toxins/ heavy metals by 600% (Klinghardt) . My working theory is, radiation from Geopathic stress also multiplies or maybe more accurately,AMPLIFIES the effects of wireless radiation and amplifies the effects of bad wiring, high magnetic fields,and dirty electricity. Lizzie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To: [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> From: arendgb@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 00:08:20 +0000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, i would be surprised if these wild stories make any sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I also do not see how these still fit into this message-board. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It goes a little bit too far in my view, actually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Not just the theories about ghosts, also the idea that these are "bad". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> It seems that cats like radiation too, and certain healthy plants and mushrooms, are these bad as well ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Well, don't ask a mouse, not even a non-religious one, if cats are devils ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> People believed in ghosts long before there were any breakerboxes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> But you can switch these off at night, "evil" creatures living off or captured by dirty electricity should leave as a result and at least it will reduce your emf-exposure during your sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> --- In [hidden email], Patricia Robinett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> yes, i have a couple of 'ghost meters' - for $25... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> and they compare to the other meters i have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> used - a very expensive meter from the utility > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> company and a trifield meter borrowed from a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> friend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> i would not be surprised if bad electricity is food > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for bad energy creatures. poison to us, good > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> for them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everything is energy. love, patricia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Mar 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, fantasticsam131 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> I bid on a meter like that on ebay recently. It wss sold for 28 dollars plus shipping. It measured frequencies in the 50-60 hertz range plus also the range for cell towers. They claimed it also was used for ghost hunting. I was going to buy it for just that reason. My bedroom has the breaker box in it and it is haunted. I have a different take on it though. These beings live on dirty electricity. Electricity which is bad to us is like food to them. There are ufo's near power lines that even pull power from the lines into their ufo's. There is a connection between ufo's and the paranormal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --- In [hidden email], "Aimee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my subject line is just to say I know I put the cart before the horse... I ordered the K-2 Delux Meter on this page and now I am asking if anyone has had experience with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Yeah, EMF does scramble brains, and Jodi thinks she has problems on the wittless stand lol. Sorry, just an attempt at humor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> http://lessemf.com/gauss.html#103 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Will much appreciate any info > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Aimee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by S Andreason
Hi Stewart,
With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? Cheers, Ad --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@...> wrote: > > Hi > ad wrote: > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > various overlapping sounds. > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > as the finished product with antenna. > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > have it not come on the market very fast. > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > And one of those I do have. :) > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > different meter. > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > repeating that. :D > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > this area. > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > hunters. > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > Except this meter has 3 modes. > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > Stewart > > -- > http://seahorseCorral.org > |
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No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers.
The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. And one sees what one is doing. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late Hi Stewart, With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? Cheers, Ad --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@...> wrote: > > Hi > ad wrote: > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > various overlapping sounds. > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > as the finished product with antenna. > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > have it not come on the market very fast. > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > And one of those I do have. :) > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > different meter. > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > repeating that. :D > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > this area. > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > hunters. > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > Except this meter has 3 modes. > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > Stewart > > -- > http://seahorseCorral.org > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Hi Charles, For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. With greetings, Ad --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > And one sees what one is doing. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > Hi Stewart, > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > Cheers, Ad > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > ad wrote: > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > as the finished product with antenna. > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > different meter. > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > repeating that. :D > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > this area. > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > hunters. > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > Stewart > > > > -- > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
Re: LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late
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In reply to this post by ad
ad wrote:
> With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > If I had a laboratory, with a frequency generator, I could really get technical in how the different meters compare with each other. But I would need to be able to tolerate that level of EMR. No thanks. I feel the tests I have done, measuring various devices with the long list of meters, and record which ones had measurable readings, and which ones didn't see "it", was an adequate way to rank the meters and decide which ones are worthy of using, keeping, and recommending. Plus comparing results when "driving through town" is more of a real-world scenario. > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > I take note more of measurements at the outer range, where the meter Starts picking up a specific device I'm testing. Then at the close-up range, where only a broken meter picks up nothing. > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > I believe the external antenna is better. It picks up more than the internal-antenna model Cornet. I have some data sheets somewhere... showing the frequency response of various antennas. As provided by the manufacturers. I have not focused on those charts, as it seems all the different meters have different sweet-spots anyways. That's why the good ones have to be calibrated to give reliable numbers in specific units of measure. That raises the price. > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > Yes. > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > Yes, and maybe. > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, No, I can hear a radio station on the ED85EX-S. But yes, it won't be as loud as a dedicated and tuned radio receiver. > therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > The meter can measure that frequency range. And even better with different specialized antenna. For example, I have hooked up a scan-antenna (multiple length antennas on one pole for scanners) to the ED85EX-S, and I can hear so many things going on, I have no idea what all I am picking up. If I listen long enough, I can pick out various music and words (louder at certain times of the day) to suggest far away radio stations, airplane traffic, radar, lightning too. > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > Yep, there's one of them. > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > It should be expected that a short antenna will have less gain for lower frequencies. Remember the telescoping antennas on older radios? Just changing the length of the antenna, or even touching it with your fingers, Does change the sweet-spot where it matches a certain wave length. > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > I've picked up radio stations with it too, about a mile from the station tower. > intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere I understood the AM-10 to be the replacement for the earlier MW1. Better in every way, except larger... :-S > people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > Agreed! > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > Right, they stop at 2Khz, because to go higher requires a shorter antenna length and different circuitry. No one meter can cover the entire range of all RF. This seems to leave a gap between 2 Khz and 1 Mhz (or more) that is only covered by really expensive meters with a wider frequency range of response. > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > I also disapprove of any meter with poor sensitivity. It gives a false sense of security when it shows zero signal. [clip...] I agree, and/or no comment. > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? When I look at the SEC solar environment, magnetic field graphs, http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/mag_3d.html I see the earth's field strength shift daily up and down, and really vibrate like a seismograph when a solar storm hits the earth. I thought this variation was what I am seeing with the Moditronic Ramsey, but as I write this, I realize there is more to it than that. The red and green leds waver in intensity. The frequency I'd have to see if I can measure, might even be 7.8 Hz. The graph I linked to is more of a day-long variation. When I turn the meter left to right, the led pattern shifts right and left as well, basically indicating the direction to magnetic north. Tilt the meter up and down, and it also swings wider up the green leds. As far as what frequency I am seeing in the wavering, I don't know. I believe it is the static magnetic field it measures, yes. I've made a video showing what I've described. Turn in a circle, see direction go left and then right. Tilt up and down, get left and right strongly with sound, and closeup watching the flickering. The field intensity/strength is different from the 1st part to the last part. Several hours apart in fact. http://seahorseCorral.org/videos/emr/20130314_Ramsey-mag_4971-5-320x240_q6.avi After watching this for several days, I learn what is "normal", and watching the vibration becomes boring. I can't find any Deviations, or anomalies, where the magnetic line makes sharp turns. Yet another learning opportunity. Still does not seem to relate to EHS. And does not measure AC magnetic fields like are found coming from powered devices. I don't think this meter will show what I'm really interested in finding, geopathic stress. Any ideas? Stewart |
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I think you did a great job comparing the meters, nevertheless at different frequencies the results are bound to be different too.
I was wondering for instance how your Cornets pick-up on the 400 Mhz radiation from TETRA but in your area that may not be part of the real world, in europe it certainly is. Radio-stations give analogue waves that are more easy to measure ( i believe ) and less important / harmful, although with an internal antenna these could perhaps be 1000 times stronger than what you actually measured, besides that some digital input might be ignored altogether ( TETRA is also not even mentioned at http://cornetmicro.com/ ). The frequency response charts of your various antennas as provided by the manufacturers seem relevant as these at least should indicate what can nót be measured without a remarkable loss. If the ED85EX-S with the whip-antenna is not supposed to measure much in the lower range of its frequency response curve, then what about the ED65 that you believe to have an inferior antenna ? It sounds like a good suggestion to attach a telescoping antenna from an old radio to the new ED85EX-S, making it a cheap but sensitive meter with sound analysis and a wide frequency-range, although with a bit of guesswork. Whatever the Moditronic Ramsey measures, it absolutely looks like a decent ghost-meter, pitch-black with flashing lights and with even a dead skull picture on it. A compass should tell where the magnetic lines make sharp turns, but with the gigahertz ME3851A, and possibly the moditronic as well, a fake ghost-reading can be evoked by moving the meter fast and short around its longitunidal axis back and forth, turning the static magnetic field into a quasi alternating one, but it won't be easy to register reliable fluctuations in its strength if one moves it manually. The gap between 2 Khz and 1 Mhz should be covered a bit by the gigahertz ME meters ( now ) from already 171 euro ( at http://geotellurique.fr ) / +/- 275 usd onward, my impression is that electro-sensitive people are in general mainly focused on reducing emf from HF ( RF ), and that might be sensible for you, but many of us have an equally hard or worse time coping with LF ( did i forget geopathic stress here ? ). --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@...> wrote: > > ad wrote: > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > If I had a laboratory, with a frequency generator, I could really get > technical in how the different meters compare with each other. But I > would need to be able to tolerate that level of EMR. No thanks. > > I feel the tests I have done, measuring various devices with the long > list of meters, and record which ones had measurable readings, and which > ones didn't see "it", was an adequate way to rank the meters and decide > which ones are worthy of using, keeping, and recommending. > > Plus comparing results when "driving through town" is more of a > real-world scenario. > > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > I take note more of measurements at the outer range, where the meter > Starts picking up a specific device I'm testing. Then at the close-up > range, where only a broken meter picks up nothing. > > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > I believe the external antenna is better. It picks up more than the > internal-antenna model Cornet. > > I have some data sheets somewhere... showing the frequency response of > various antennas. As provided by the manufacturers. I have not focused > on those charts, as it seems all the different meters have different > sweet-spots anyways. That's why the good ones have to be calibrated to > give reliable numbers in specific units of measure. That raises the price. > > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > Yes. > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > Yes, and maybe. > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, > No, I can hear a radio station on the ED85EX-S. But yes, it won't be as > loud as a dedicated and tuned radio receiver. > > > > therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > The meter can measure that frequency range. And even better with > different specialized antenna. > For example, I have hooked up a scan-antenna (multiple length antennas > on one pole for scanners) to the ED85EX-S, and I can hear so many things > going on, I have no idea what all I am picking up. If I listen long > enough, I can pick out various music and words (louder at certain times > of the day) to suggest far away radio stations, airplane traffic, radar, > lightning too. > > > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > Yep, there's one of them. > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > It should be expected that a short antenna will have less gain for lower > frequencies. Remember the telescoping antennas on older radios? Just > changing the length of the antenna, or even touching it with your > fingers, Does change the sweet-spot where it matches a certain wave length. > > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > I've picked up radio stations with it too, about a mile from the station > tower. > > > > intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere > I understood the AM-10 to be the replacement for the earlier MW1. > Better in every way, except larger... :-S > > > people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > Agreed! > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > Right, they stop at 2Khz, because to go higher requires a shorter > antenna length and different circuitry. No one meter can cover the > entire range of all RF. > This seems to leave a gap between 2 Khz and 1 Mhz (or more) that is only > covered by really expensive meters with a wider frequency range of response. > > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > I also disapprove of any meter with poor sensitivity. It gives a false > sense of security when it shows zero signal. > > > [clip...] I agree, and/or no comment. > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > When I look at the SEC solar environment, magnetic field graphs, > http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/mag_3d.html > I see the earth's field strength shift daily up and down, and really > vibrate like a seismograph when a solar storm hits the earth. > I thought this variation was what I am seeing with the Moditronic > Ramsey, but as I write this, I realize there is more to it than that. > The red and green leds waver in intensity. > The frequency I'd have to see if I can measure, might even be 7.8 Hz. > The graph I linked to is more of a day-long variation. > > When I turn the meter left to right, the led pattern shifts right and > left as well, basically indicating the direction to magnetic north. Tilt > the meter up and down, and it also swings wider up the green leds. > As far as what frequency I am seeing in the wavering, I don't know. I > believe it is the static magnetic field it measures, yes. > > I've made a video showing what I've described. Turn in a circle, see > direction go left and then right. Tilt up and down, get left and right > strongly with sound, and closeup watching the flickering. > The field intensity/strength is different from the 1st part to the last > part. Several hours apart in fact. > http://seahorseCorral.org/videos/emr/20130314_Ramsey-mag_4971-5-320x240_q6.avi > > After watching this for several days, I learn what is "normal", and > watching the vibration becomes boring. I can't find any Deviations, or > anomalies, where the magnetic line makes sharp turns. > > Yet another learning opportunity. Still does not seem to relate to EHS. > And does not measure AC magnetic fields like are found coming from > powered devices. > > I don't think this meter will show what I'm really interested in > finding, geopathic stress. Any ideas? > > Stewart > |
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In reply to this post by ad
The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher.
Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late Hi Charles, For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. With greetings, Ad --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > And one sees what one is doing. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > Hi Stewart, > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > Cheers, Ad > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > ad wrote: > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > as the finished product with antenna. > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > different meter. > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > repeating that. :D > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > this area. > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > hunters. > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > Stewart > > > > -- > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Charles, are you sure ?! http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > Hi Charles, > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > With greetings, Ad > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi > > > ad wrote: > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > different meter. > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > hunters. > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > -- > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. The communication may be of interest of some of you. Its price ( outside EU: ⬠336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. Dear Mr. .., thank you for writing please check below for answers⦠Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 An: [hidden email] Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A Dear reader, My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. Yes, for sure! 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. Best regards! Niels ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@...> wrote: > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Charles Claessens > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: ad > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > different meter. > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > hunters. > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
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The ME3851a can only measure from 5Hz up to 100kHz.
The ME3951A can measure from 5Hz up to 400kHz. There are no tricks to raise this frequency range. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. The communication may be of interest of some of you. Its price ( outside EU: â,¬ 336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. Dear Mr. .., thank you for writing please check below for answersâ?¦ Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 An: [hidden email] Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A Dear reader, My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. Yes, for sure! 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. Best regards! Niels ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@...> wrote: > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Charles Claessens > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: ad > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > different meter. > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > hunters. > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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well, these meters are supposed to do so, but less accurate. reading at 500 kHz 20-25% too little is much better than nothing. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf or do you suggest that the frequency-response-diagrams are incorrect ? did you test Gigahertz ME meters ? --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > The ME3851a can only measure from 5Hz up to 100kHz. > The ME3951A can measure from 5Hz up to 400kHz. > > There are no tricks to raise this frequency range. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:15 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. > I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. > Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. > The communication may be of interest of some of you. > Its price ( outside EU: �,� 336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. > > > Dear Mr. .., > > thank you for writing please check below for answers�?� > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 > An: info@... > Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A > > > Dear reader, > > My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. > > I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. > Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. > Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. > > I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . > 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? > This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. > > Yes, for sure! > > > 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? > > They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. > > > 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. > > the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. > > Best regards! > > Niels > > ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). > > --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@> wrote: > > > > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Charles Claessens > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: ad > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: ad > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > > different meter. > > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > > hunters. > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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I do not believe fairy tales.
Why are you so fixed on 500kHz? Why not at 3500kHz or 4500kHz? Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late well, these meters are supposed to do so, but less accurate. reading at 500 kHz 20-25% too little is much better than nothing. http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf or do you suggest that the frequency-response-diagrams are incorrect ? did you test Gigahertz ME meters ? --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > The ME3851a can only measure from 5Hz up to 100kHz. > The ME3951A can measure from 5Hz up to 400kHz. > > There are no tricks to raise this frequency range. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:15 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. > I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. > Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. > The communication may be of interest of some of you. > Its price ( outside EU: �,� 336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. > > > Dear Mr. .., > > thank you for writing please check below for answers�?� > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 > An: info@... > Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A > > > Dear reader, > > My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. > > I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. > Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. > Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. > > I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . > 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? > This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. > > Yes, for sure! > > > 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? > > They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. > > > 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. > > the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. > > Best regards! > > Niels > > ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). > > --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@> wrote: > > > > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Charles Claessens > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: ad > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: ad > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > > different meter. > > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > > hunters. > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Why fairy tales ? Are you saying the frequency response curves are fantasy and Gigahertz is fraudulent ? If so, please back this up, if not, what do you mean exactly ? At 200 kHz the ME3851A the inaccuracy should be still very small, at 900 kHz way too high, a 20-25 % loss of the measured values at 500 Khz would be acceptable for me, moreover this is a round number. --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > I do not believe fairy tales. > > Why are you so fixed on 500kHz? > > Why not at 3500kHz or 4500kHz? > > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:43 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > well, these meters are supposed to do so, but less accurate. > reading at 500 kHz 20-25% too little is much better than nothing. > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > or do you suggest that the frequency-response-diagrams are incorrect ? > did you test Gigahertz ME meters ? > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > The ME3851a can only measure from 5Hz up to 100kHz. > > The ME3951A can measure from 5Hz up to 400kHz. > > > > There are no tricks to raise this frequency range. > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:15 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. > > I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. > > Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. > > The communication may be of interest of some of you. > > Its price ( outside EU: �,� 336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. > > > > > > Dear Mr. .., > > > > thank you for writing please check below for answers�?� > > > > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 > > An: info@ > > Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A > > > > > > Dear reader, > > > > My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. > > > > I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. > > Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. > > Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. > > > > I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . > > 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? > > This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. > > > > Yes, for sure! > > > > > > 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? > > > > They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. > > > > > > 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. > > > > the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. > > > > Best regards! > > > > Niels > > > > ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). > > > > --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > > > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > > > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > > > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > > > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: ad > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: ad > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > > > different meter. > > > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > > > hunters. > > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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Let's introduce a new term : dirty ( poor quality ) communication. If the meaning of a statement remains unclear, it can not be considered properly and it rather be filtered. That the ME3851A measures upto 100 kHz but no further ( instead of till 2 kHz ) appears ( to me ) rather unlikely as well, a filter to cut off the ( curved ) curve would make little sense. Frequency response curves can be tested or checked, we are talking about meters here, not stories one may want to believe or not to believe. In absolute terms we know nothing and even that is too much said, nevertheless in regards to meters one may want to see some sort of documentation of measurements and of experiences in order to estimate the chances wether these can be useful within one's current reality. Of course Gigahertz may possibly not give the most objective review here, however at least the company delivered a straightforward, plausible and relevant response. --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@...> wrote: > > > Why fairy tales ? > Are you saying the frequency response curves are fantasy and Gigahertz is fraudulent ? > If so, please back this up, if not, what do you mean exactly ? > At 200 kHz the ME3851A the inaccuracy should be still very small, at 900 kHz way too high, a 20-25 % loss of the measured values at 500 Khz would be acceptable for me, moreover this is a round number. > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > I do not believe fairy tales. > > > > Why are you so fixed on 500kHz? > > > > Why not at 3500kHz or 4500kHz? > > > > > > Greetings, > > Charles Claessens > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > www.milieuziektes.be > > www.hetbitje.nl > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ad > > To: [hidden email] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:43 PM > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > well, these meters are supposed to do so, but less accurate. > > reading at 500 kHz 20-25% too little is much better than nothing. > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > or do you suggest that the frequency-response-diagrams are incorrect ? > > did you test Gigahertz ME meters ? > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > The ME3851a can only measure from 5Hz up to 100kHz. > > > The ME3951A can measure from 5Hz up to 400kHz. > > > > > > There are no tricks to raise this frequency range. > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Charles Claessens > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: ad > > > To: [hidden email] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 3:15 PM > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the managers of Gigahertz Solutions, explained the following to me about the ME3851A. > > > I tend to believe it, it is company that has build up a good reputation among building-biologists in general, besides that germans are as a rule serious and precise, and don't screw around with facts. > > > Also I have no documentated information that contradicts what is states. > > > The communication may be of interest of some of you. > > > Its price ( outside EU: �,� 336 plus taxes, duties and shipping ), sensitivity, auto-calibration and wide frequency-range makes it look more attractive to me than the Spectran NF meters, which probably emit high levels of emf themselves ( as Stewart did measure on Spectran HF meters ), may need recalibration on the longer term, are more expensive and hard to use without a lot of technical know-how. > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. .., > > > > > > thank you for writing please check below for answers�?� > > > > > > > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. März 2013 23:08 > > > An: info@ > > > Betreff: a few questions regarding the specifications of the ME3851A > > > > > > > > > Dear reader, > > > > > > My written german is rather inadequate, but you could respond in both german and english. > > > > > > I have a ME3030B and consider to buy a ME3851A in addition. > > > Underneath is a part from the manual of the latter meter that is confusing to me. > > > Never mind the size of the letters that i have not managed to reduce. > > > > > > I have three questions referring to what the manual states concerning "Frequency Analysis via AC Output" . > > > 1 - Is it correct that the frequency response curves for electrical and magnetic field measuring are fully valid when the reading is less than 1/20 of its maximum ? > > > This would for instance mean that at 500 kHz the response will be still respectively 75 % and 80 % when the reading is below this 1/20 of its maximum. > > > > > > Yes, for sure! > > > > > > > > > 2 - Do the technical specifications only refer to measurements of sinusoidal waves or also to measurements of polluted sinusoidal fields ( "dirty electricity" or "dirty air" ) and of digital pulses ? > > > > > > They refer to any signal as any signal can be brought down to sinusoidal waves, only that for the so-called dirty electricity of digital pulses there are fractions of higher frequencies included. > > > > > > > > > 3 - Do the answers to the above questions also refer to direct readings from the meter without using a spectrum analyzer, and if not, what are the differences ?. > > > > > > the reading on the meter does not require spectrum analyzer to include the above frequencies. That is the major advantage of measuring with a compensated broadband meter: by its very nature it will include all the higher frequency fractions up to the specified frequency range and add them according to their contribution to the total value of the solution. > > > > > > Best regards! > > > > > > Niels > > > > > > ( That must be "Dipl. Wi.-Ing. Niels Dernedde", an engineer, one of the two managers, he should know what he is talking about, unlike me for instance ;) ). > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "ad" <arendgb@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles, are you sure ?! > > > > http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/manuals/130-414_ME3851_DE.pdf > > > > What about the "Typische Frequenzverlaüfe" and the "Konformitätserklärung" ? > > > > I've read about the Spectrans NF, and wonder what "DDC Analog" implies exactly within the specs of the NF-5030, i guess it is that the included "option 5" increases the sensitivity of electrical fields as far as these are analogue, but this may sound like gibberish to you ;). > > > > http://www.spectran.com/Handheld_Spectrum_Analyzer.htm > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The ME3851A only can measure up to 2kHz. Not higher. > > > > > > > > > > Only the ME3951A can measure up to 400kHz, and that is all. > > > > > > > > > > With the ME3851A, for measuring electrical fields, a grounding line has to be used. > > > > > For measuring magnetical fields, one has to measure the X-axis, Y-axis and Z-axis, and culaculate accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > With a Spectran NF, no grounding line is needed, and for magnetical fields, it has a 3D measuring. > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: ad > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:16 PM > > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > > > > > > > For those, me included, without any technical background beside perhaps some physics at high school-classes ages ago, things may be a different story. > > > > > So without walking around with a laptop one can not see the total amount of radiation with a Spectran HF ? > > > > > I just want to measure to get an idea of the emf-environment, without much ado, for myself and a few friends, not on a daily or professional basis. > > > > > Do your spectruman-analysers consistently give the same results or do some have lost their calibration or became less reliable for whatever other reason ? > > > > > Stewart measured the emf that his Spectran HF emitted, are the Spectrans NF also a strong source of radiation themselves ? > > > > > Regarding my choice to make between a Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF, do these meters give more or less the same readings ? > > > > > According to the manual of the ME3851A, it actually measures quite something upto 500kHz ( 75 % in V/m and 80 % in nT, at 800 kHz still resp. 20 % and 70 %, yjat is : at 1/20 or less of the maximum readings ), which could be very useful. > > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1030/ME3851A.pdf > > > > > But it speaks about "sinusoidal input" above 30 kHz, so that makes me wonder if it does also register pulses properly within its whole LF-range. > > > > > Attractive are its relative simplicity ( for simple minds ), the price and a "self calibrating circuit elements" that should improve the reliability on the longer term, which is especially important when one has no other meters laying around to test it against. > > > > > > > > > > With greetings, Ad > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Aaronia does not have a special series of more robust spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > > > > > > > The V3 are not as fast as the V4, but the quality remains the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, if one does not read the manuals carefully, every meter may seem to be difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > Among my many meters and detectors, I now have 5 different spectrumanalysers. > > > > > > And I use them all on my laptop, because there one has much more data, and is adjustment very easy. > > > > > > Most things are pre-defined in large menu's. > > > > > > On the meters, only max. 3 markers can be seen; on the laptop 99 are possible. > > > > > > Also, on the laptop the total amount of radiation will be automatically calculated. > > > > > > And one sees what one is doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Charles Claessens > > > > > > www.milieuziektes.nl > > > > > > www.milieuziektes.be > > > > > > www.hetbitje.nl > > > > > > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: ad > > > > > > To: [hidden email] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:36 PM > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Stewart, > > > > > > > > > > > > With more specific frequencies related comparisons do i mean : what do your meters measure actually at specific frequencies, while comparing the meters ? > > > > > > So at a certain distance to a single source ( without other antennas interfering ) with a known frequency like 400 or 900 Mhz or 2.5 or 5.8 Ghz, what do measure the different Cornets, the Acoustimeter, the Spectran, Zap Checker and possibly other meters measure then ( holding them if necessary in the right angle ). > > > > > > I guess that the internal antenna in Cornets ( that have one ) is comparable to the whip-antenna of the ED85EX. > > > > > > The advantage of an external antenna is that one does not cover the meter so easily with one's hands and also that other antennas can be used. > > > > > > A disadvantage is that it is less handy to carry around in your pocket, but probably not that it measures less between 100 and 900 Mhz than the other models. > > > > > > The claim in the specifications of the ED65 and other Cornets that at 100 Mhz reasonable measurements ( worth mentioning ) can be done sounds rather dubious, therefore my guess that the frequency-ranges are to be interpreted as "before" the internal antenna, which would be of course ridiculous, not to say misleading. > > > > > > If we look into the manual of the ED85EX, frequency response curves are included for the meter and for the whip- and bat8-antennas. > > > > > > http://www.slt.co/Downloads/Products/1219/ED-85EXUserGuide.pdf > > > > > > The antenna-loss of the whip-antenna is already (-) 8 dBi at 1000 Mhz and goes down from there to (-) 20 dBi at 650 Mhz , lower is not indicated but it does not look promising there. > > > > > > The Acoustimeter gives more precise specifications that sound pretty good but having these checked in practice would help to decide to buy and use one. > > > > > > The "typical" overall frequency response "using" the internal antenna is specified as : +/- 3 dB from 0,2 to 8 Ghz and +/- 6 dB from 150 to 200 Mhz and from 8 to 10 Ghz. > > > > > > The price of the Acoustimeter goes up and down often, but the current 255 uk-pounds it seems attractive to me if it does what is indicated. > > > > > > Regarding the EMFields ELF meter compared to the much cheaper ME 3030B, it is actually ( specified as ) a bit more accurate but less sensitive on the magnetic fields and does not have the ( second ) option of measuring electrical fields while earthing the meter, which gives valuable information independant of who is holding the meter or where it is placed. > > > > > > Still they sell this competing Gigahertz-meter as well, which may reflect good intentions, strange is that they took the MW1 Electrosmog detector off the market, i have one, it is a great tool in your pocket when you walk downtown, everywhere people on the phone are getting much too close to my liking these days. > > > > > > The mentioned LF-meters do not measure above 2 kHz, which is not sufficient for a monitor or laptop, led or fluorescent lamps, and dirty electricity. > > > > > > Also they may be more sensitive than quite a few other meters, but to my taste it is not enough, the minimum for me would be the ME3851A. > > > > > > Spectran HF-meters do not seem user-friendly and are complicated instruments that i guess more easily screw up than simple devices. > > > > > > It is not unthinkable that Aaronia sent a special and more robust version to Charles because they expected him to test it, the war with Buergerwelle must have cost them dearly. > > > > > > Apart from own emf-output, the specifications of the NF-5030, even more with the optional static magnetic field sensor, are still attractive and perhaps their LF ( "NF" in german ) -meters are less troublesome. > > > > > > The Dr.Gauss meter / Gauss Master is certainly pretty cheap and must be a nice plaything as an introduction to 50/60Hz-magnetic fields. > > > > > > I have a ME3030B too, but always hold it very still ( best is of course in 3 directions ), however do not trust what it measures when moved around, and usually don't bother with earth-ing it, for me it is a detector that gives an idea of some of the LF-environment. > > > > > > What maximum levels Gigahertz recommends is at the most relevant in general, not for anyone in particular, but apart from that higher freqencies seem to have indeed more impact ( also as a rule ). > > > > > > You said that from a Moditronic Ramey TriField meter you have learned that where you live the earth's magnetic field vibrates, but seem to have no anomalies or deviations. > > > > > > How does that work ? Does it measure both very low frequencies as static magnetic fields ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, Ad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], S Andreason <sandreas41@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > ad wrote: > > > > > > > > I would be interested for instance in more specific frequencies related comparisons, for instance TETRA at 400 Mhz. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you mean, what different _services_ sound like? > > > > > > > Different services do use different frequencies and do have unique > > > > > > > signatures. That is why I recommend and prefer meters that provide sound > > > > > > > analysis. Much more informative than just a number. > > > > > > > I don't have a large collection of them to share myself, but I provide a > > > > > > > couple links to other sites that have recorded various signatures > > > > > > > separately. The key is _separately_ since I'm not collecting noisy > > > > > > > devices on purpose to measure them. and there are quite a few sounds I > > > > > > > have heard myself, that I don't know exactly what device is broadcasting. > > > > > > > Thus most of my recordings "in the field" are a cacophony (clamor) of > > > > > > > various overlapping sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifications can be meant BEFORE an included antenna, even if it is an internal one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any particular meter or paragraph? Ah, you're suggesting I should > > > > > > > clarify that heading. I believe most of the meters advertise their specs > > > > > > > as the finished product with antenna. > > > > > > > As for the meters that allow antennas to be changed, then yes the > > > > > > > antenna definitely changes the meter's sensitivity and range. Like when > > > > > > > I hook the HyperLog 7060 to the Cornet ED85EXS and the result is super > > > > > > > sensitive and directional, and that has revealed noises I did not know > > > > > > > were there, here. The power density numbers become un-calibrated, and > > > > > > > the specifications no longer match up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Accoustimeter looks great, but the fact that the same company sells a LF-meter too that seems 3 times overpriced along with a nonsensical explanation makes me a tiny bit suspicious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seemed to me, after communicating directly with the developer, that > > > > > > > they don't have the financial resources to mass produce on a smaller > > > > > > > component scale as other Big companies seem able to do. Thus it has been > > > > > > > a bit disappointing to be waiting for the next promised version, and > > > > > > > have it not come on the market very fast. > > > > > > > I don't know which nonsensical explanation you have seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you happen to have a bunch of LF-meters laying around, please review these too ! > > > > > > > Well, I do have a couple more I've been sitting on... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have still to make a choice between a new Gigahertz ME and a Spectran NF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And one of those I do have. :) > > > > > > > The Gigahertz ME model 3030B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emissions are very low to non-existent. Big plus over the Spectran. If > > > > > > > you've read all my reviews, you'll know I have had a bad experience with > > > > > > > the Spectran. Intolerably noisy. But of course, with only one numeric > > > > > > > display, the ME says nothing about what frequency is being measured. > > > > > > > Charles has spoken highly of the Spectran's capabilities. Apparently he > > > > > > > can tolerate the EMR it puts out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to the ME, the audio mode is just a noise maker, and does not > > > > > > > reflect the actual signal being measured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Magnetic mode, the sensitivity specs are very excellent, going down > > > > > > > to 1 nT (0.01 milliGauss), but when comparing with the Dr.GaussMeter, > > > > > > > the analog one, I once again see the analog version finding more subtle > > > > > > > fields around powered devices than the digital meter. As well as missing > > > > > > > the real time audio feedback that the Dr.Gauss meter does have. > > > > > > > But then on the positive side, there is this: In measuring the ambient > > > > > > > fields in an area. I can hold very still, and read between 2-14 nT > > > > > > > inside, and then walk around and get readings 60-300 nT, and of course > > > > > > > various similar numbers near this computer. By comparison, if I walk > > > > > > > around with the Dr.Gauss Meter, it gives no response. > > > > > > > Then walk outside, away from power lines, and the ME reading goes down. > > > > > > > 50-150 nT walking, and 2 nT at rest. If I walk 1/4 mile away from the > > > > > > > power line, the ambient magnetic field goes to zero. > > > > > > > Obviously not measuring the earth's static field. That would be a > > > > > > > different meter. > > > > > > > Or walk toward the power line, 200-700 nT walking, and under the power > > > > > > > line 80-100 nT at rest. This is consistent with the Dr.Gauss reading 1 mG. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or, when I am hunting a metal stake in the ground, the big audio > > > > > > > response from the Dr.Gauss meter is very useful, like a magnetic field > > > > > > > detector. Also waving across a 12V lead-acid battery gives a big > > > > > > > response, picking up the static magnetic field. Repeating this test with > > > > > > > the ME, and yes the numbers go wild, up to 900 nT at the distance and > > > > > > > angle I tested at. Very good, but I miss the audio signature. Yes I keep > > > > > > > repeating that. :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Electric field mode, (for this is why I bought it, to hunt ground > > > > > > > current), I did find very useful results, like the 90 V/m difference > > > > > > > between the mains ground and earth ground. Also measuring near AC mains > > > > > > > wiring, up to 1300 V/m at closest range touching an unshielded cord. > > > > > > > I can't freely walk around with this meter in Electric field mode, as it > > > > > > > requires the ground cord plugged in to give a reference to. A portable > > > > > > > metal stake is a work-around to stick in the earth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am left with questions, like why the electric field strength is so > > > > > > > much higher in the low frequencies than high frequency RF bands. > > > > > > > Apparently Gigahertz recommends no higher than 10 V/m, whereas I can't > > > > > > > tolerate greater than 0.03 V/m in HF. I'm sure there is more to learn in > > > > > > > this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other meter I did not add to my page, since it is not for measuring > > > > > > > EMR, is the Moditronic Ramey TriField meter, popular with paranormal > > > > > > > hunters. > > > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org/images/ebay/RameyTriField-300.jpg > > > > > > > Except this meter has 3 modes. > > > > > > > From it I have learned the earth's magnetic field here does vibrate, > > > > > > > but seems to have no anomalies or deviations. I hoped to see it wiggle > > > > > > > more during a solar storm, when my headache rises due to that kind of > > > > > > > magnetic disturbance, but I have not seen what I was looking for. The > > > > > > > Static field mode is also interesting, but does not reveal anything > > > > > > > abnormal. The RF mode is not sensitive enough to compare with my other > > > > > > > meters. I intend to re-sell it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As regards the K-2, it says it measures magnetic fields, and starts at > > > > > > > 1.5 mG, (1500 nT) Way above the range I look to measure in. If the AC > > > > > > > magnetic field is that strong, then it is already too high. My personal > > > > > > > threshold is at 0.3 mG. > > > > > > > Sorry Aimee, I don't think that meter will be of much use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stewart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > http://seahorseCorral.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > |
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@ ad,
what is it exactly that you want to measure? I have all those meters and even more. A number of meters do show only *house numbers* if you go beyond their given radius. Greetings, Charles Claessens www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Emsisoft ----- Original Message ----- From: ad To: [hidden email] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:16 PM Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late Let's introduce a new term : dirty ( poor quality ) communication. If the meaning of a statement remains unclear, it can not be considered properly and it rather be filtered. That the ME3851A measures upto 100 kHz but no further ( instead of till 2 kHz ) appears ( to me ) rather unlikely as well, a filter to cut off the ( curved ) curve would make little sense. Frequency response curves can be tested or checked, we are talking about meters here, not stories one may want to believe or not to believe. In absolute terms we know nothing and even that is too much said, nevertheless in regards to meters one may want to see some sort of documentation of measurements and of experiences in order to estimate the chances wether these can be useful within one's current reality. Of course Gigahertz may possibly not give the most objective review here, however at least the company delivered a straightforward, plausible and relevant response. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Basically pc-monitors and dirty air, the ME3851A should measure most of it. Not on a daily basis, not professionally, without a need or desire for great precision. Do you have doubts about the given frequency response curve and if so, why ? Does it not show real signals above 100 kHz and give "house numbers" instead ? For instance did it show nothing while a spectran NF and a ME3951A did measure fields between 100kHz and 400kHz ? And did a ME3851A show "ghost-readings" in that range that the other meters did not pick up ? In order to check ( not properly "test" ) a meter, i suppose one needs at least two other ones of different types that meet the necessary criteria. I prefer an on the long term reliable, simple and sensitive meter with little radiation of its own. There must be a balance between price and performance, without an obsession to get extremely close to perfection. Emf-exposure can not be avoided these days anyway, only diminished, while one can try to raise one's resistance, that is our hard reality. I just read that in the Netherlands the trend of doubling mobile data-travel every year is expected to continue. In 2017 it will be already 17 times as much as it is now, and smart meters are probably not even included in that prognosis. I think in the last 3 years it went up 12 times, so that would add up to over 200 times in just 7 years, truly unbelievable. The human animal appears to be an experiment of the universe in insanity ( apart from dishonesty ), it is amazing. One could also see humanity as the skin-cancer the planet, and cancer-cells die when they killed their host ( if not before ) ... --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > @ ad, > > what is it exactly that you want to measure? > > I have all those meters and even more. > > A number of meters do show only *house numbers* if you go beyond their given radius. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Emsisoft > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ad > To: [hidden email] > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:16 PM > Subject: [eSens] LF Meters Was Re: Too smart Too late > > > > Let's introduce a new term : dirty ( poor quality ) communication. > If the meaning of a statement remains unclear, it can not be considered properly and it rather be filtered. > That the ME3851A measures upto 100 kHz but no further ( instead of till 2 kHz ) appears ( to me ) rather unlikely as well, a filter to cut off the ( curved ) curve would make little sense. > Frequency response curves can be tested or checked, we are talking about meters here, not stories one may want to believe or not to believe. > In absolute terms we know nothing and even that is too much said, nevertheless in regards to meters one may want to see some sort of documentation of measurements and of experiences in order to estimate the chances wether these can be useful within one's current reality. > Of course Gigahertz may possibly not give the most objective review here, however at least the company delivered a straightforward, plausible and relevant response. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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