Reactions!
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Having a bad day. Don't know what I did yesterday but bed ridden today. I turned off the electric on one side of the house where I sleep but seem to be even more tired.
Can the electricity come through the wires even if the breaker is turned off. I know I still have to deal with Cell, wifi, & wireless. Any thoughts. I'm really trying to eat well & get better but something through me for a loop. Loni [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In a message dated 18/02/2010 20:05:00 GMT Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: Can the electricity come through the wires even if the breaker is turned off. I know I still have to deal with Cell, wifi, & wireless. Any thoughts. I'm really trying to eat well & get better but something through me for a loop. Loni PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm feeling electrocuted...
I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing here... Stephen. > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted |
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In reply to this post by PUK
> PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through
> and over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have > much of a gap when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps > the gap, and ends up on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted But if the power has been cut to the lines, then I wouldn't think that the RF on the lines would be nearly as bothersome (?) Marc |
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In reply to this post by PUK
PUK, Yes I think that is what was happening because I still felt that electrical stress during the night & was hoping for some relief. Just too many antennas here. That's a great point & I thought it might be the case. Loni
--- On Fri, 2/19/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote: From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 4:17 AM In a message dated 18/02/2010 20:05:00 GMT Standard Time, loni326@yahoo. com writes: Can the electricity come through the wires even if the breaker is turned off. I know I still have to deal with Cell, wifi, & wireless. Any thoughts. I'm really trying to eat well & get better but something through me for a loop. Loni PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by stephen_vandevijvere
Stephen,
Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's wireless too I suppose. That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <[hidden email]> wrote: From: stephen_vandevijvere <[hidden email]> Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm feeling electrocuted. .. I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing here... Stephen. > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Marc, Yes I think it should have helped & didn't seem to? GEEZ! Loni
--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 8:56 AM > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through > and over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have > much of a gap when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps > the gap, and ends up on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted But if the power has been cut to the lines, then I wouldn't think that the RF on the lines would be nearly as bothersome (?) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Loni Rosser
Hello Loni,
Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me know if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course ifyou're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the neighbours... And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas outside. If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... hope you get better soon, greets, Stephen --- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@...> wrote: > > Stephen, > Â > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's wireless too I suppose. > Â > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> wrote: > > > From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > To: [hidden email] > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > Â > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm feeling electrocuted. .. > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing here... > > Stephen. > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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> Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me...
> > Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... You and Paul are talking about two different things -- you are talking about low frequencies (60 hz), while Paul is talking about high frequencies (RF, around 1 Ghz). Marc |
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In reply to this post by stephen_vandevijvere
You may pick-up VLF from your grounding, from waterpipes, even from gas
pipings. And the wirings from the cable TV can conduct VLF. I have measured VLF form televisions, that were really off. The screens worked like a second antenna, like most metallic surfaces can do. Not everybody can measure that. And it is the VLF that is *killing* and frying electrosensitives. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen_vandevijvere" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:15 PM Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! Hello Loni, Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me know if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course if you're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the neighbours... And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas outside. If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... hope you get better soon, greets, Stephen --- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@...> wrote: > > Stephen, > Â > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. > I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's > wireless too I suppose. > Â > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > wrote: > > > From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > To: [hidden email] > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > Â > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm > feeling electrocuted. .. > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing > here... > > Stephen. > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a > > gap > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends > > up > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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In reply to this post by stephen_vandevijvere
The main reason turning off the breaker isn't enough (besides wireless
stuff) is that the neutral wires are still connected to the power company. You may be able to find an electrician who can put in a 3 phase shutoff for the house. It will be hundreds of dollars. Or, 3 phase switch just for your bedroom (>$70) or 2 phase swich (cheap) but go ungrounded or add GFI (none of these meet modern code). Possibly improving the grounding at the panel to be a high frequency ground will help, but that's only a good idea if the panel is far from you, because the fields will get worse between the panel and the transformer. Same with putting a big filter at the panel. Make sure all your electronics are unpowered (unplugged). If you share a transformer getting your neighbors to unplug stuff or at least use surge protectors with filters could help you. Give them your Stetzer filters. I've been recommending Tripp Lite Isobar surge protectors, but I just found out that as of 2001 they changed the insides to be less effective and less safe (some have reported shorting out). On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:15 PM, stephen_vandevijvere < [hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hello Loni, > > Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... > > Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me > know if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course > if you're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the > neighbours... > > And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas > outside. > > If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour > that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... > > hope you get better soon, > greets, > Stephen > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, Loni <loni326@...> > wrote: > > > > Stephen, > > Â > > > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was > not. I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's > wireless too I suppose. > > Â > > > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > wrote: > > > > > > From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > > To: [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm > feeling electrocuted. .. > > > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing > here... > > > > Stephen. > > > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of > a gap > > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and > ends up > > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
> And it is the VLF that is *killing* and frying electrosensitives.
And what frequency range do you define as "VLF" ? Marc |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Mm, interesting...
Now I understand why it's better to have no electronics (tv/pc/...) close to your sleeping room even with electric power off... So turning off the electric power may not cut off all low emf but still is a big improvement and should be advised to anyone sensitive to low emf frequencies... regards, Stephen. --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote: > > You may pick-up VLF from your grounding, from waterpipes, even from gas > pipings. > And the wirings from the cable TV can conduct VLF. > > I have measured VLF form televisions, that were really off. > The screens worked like a second antenna, like most metallic surfaces can > do. > > Not everybody can measure that. > > And it is the VLF that is *killing* and frying electrosensitives. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Norton > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stephen_vandevijvere" <stephen_vandevijvere@...> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:15 PM > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > > > Hello Loni, > > Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... > > Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me know > if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course if > you're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the > neighbours... > > And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas > outside. > > If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour > that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... > > hope you get better soon, > greets, > Stephen > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@> wrote: > > > > Stephen, > > Â > > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. > > I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's > > wireless too I suppose. > > Â > > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: stephen_vandevijvere <stephen_vandevijvere@> > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > > To: [hidden email] > > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm > > feeling electrocuted. .. > > > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing > > here... > > > > Stephen. > > > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a > > > gap > > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends > > > up > > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
from 5 kHz up to 400 kHz, and sometimes up to 5 MHz.
My 26" Acer monitor shows only peaks, and they are quite heavy at 4.5 MHz. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions! >> And it is the VLF that is *killing* and frying electrosensitives. > > And what frequency range do you define as "VLF" ? > > Marc > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > |
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In reply to this post by Loni Rosser
In a message dated 20/02/2010 07:23:17 GMT Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... Puk replies - I was saying that electrical energy of varying fequencies and magnitude can find its way into your house wiring in a myriad of ways, the basic breakers ar not enough to stop certain frequencies from running over and accross them and as said general cabling and piping can be another entry point as well as telecoms. Trying to make a distinction between what is outside and inside is often misleading as the telecoms cables and electrical cables that feed your home often sit in full veiw of mobile phone antenas so ofering another insidious route into your home. These all act as potential antennas for electrical energy wether it is conducted or airborne, all the terms used for emf, efeilds, radio waves, microwaves and so on are derived from the same energy - electrons, ranging from calm chickens to raging bulls, they are all difficult to coral and contain how we treat them will go some way to determining the outcome the rest is up to the mathematics of choas. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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To get back to the original post, the first thing any electrosensitive
should do (after turning off the obvious wireless things) is hold a portable AM radio up to a lightswitch. If there is a buzz, turn off all the power. If the buzz stops, turn on breakers one by one to see which circuit has the culprit. If a circuit with just a regular incandescent lightbulb only plugged in causes a buzz along its wires, then there differential mode noise from a source nearby, possibly a neighbor on the same transformer (get them to look for faulty outdoor wiring and add filtered surge suppressors for electronics). If the buzz is still there with the power off, you have common mode noise from elsewhere. Either get a big 3 phase filter (thousands of dollars) and install at the meter far from the house, or find a way to disconnect the neutral and ground for the bedroom and nearby rooms. In some cases it is possible to disconnect the main neutral wire at the panel (with main breaker off of course) but I have not been able to do it at my house without risking breaking the panel or zapping myself. Still you may find relief with the power off and neutral still connected. It will reduce the 60Hz electric fields and harmonics significantly (unless you have all wiring in conduit or shielded, grounded walls, in which case those are already low). Bill On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:08 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > In a message dated 20/02/2010 07:23:17 GMT Standard Time, > [hidden email] <stephen_vandevijvere%40yahoo.com> writes: > > Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... > > Puk replies - I was saying that electrical energy of varying fequencies and > > magnitude can find its way into your house wiring in a myriad of ways, the > basic breakers ar not enough to stop certain frequencies from running over > and accross them and as said general cabling and piping can be another > entry point as well as telecoms. Trying to make a distinction between what > is > outside and inside is often misleading as the telecoms cables and > electrical cables that feed your home often sit in full veiw of mobile > phone antenas > so ofering another insidious route into your home. These all act as > potential antennas for electrical energy wether it is conducted or > airborne, all > the terms used for emf, efeilds, radio waves, microwaves and so on are > derived from the same energy - electrons, ranging from calm chickens to > raging > bulls, they are all difficult to coral and contain how we treat them will > go some way to determining the outcome the rest is up to the mathematics of > > choas. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by stephen_vandevijvere
Hello Stephen,
Well we do have fairly new neighbors on each side of the house. If the RF is riding on the wires then an EMF measurement device would not register it. I'm going to do another antenna search to see if the numbers have increased. Loni --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijvere <[hidden email]> wrote: From: stephen_vandevijvere <[hidden email]> Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 12:15 PM Hello Loni, Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me know if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course ifyou're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the neighbours.. . And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas outside. If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... hope you get better soon, greets, Stephen --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Loni <loni326@... > wrote: > > Stephen, > Â > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's wireless too I suppose. > Â > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> wrote: > > > From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > Â > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm feeling electrocuted. .. > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing here... > > Stephen. > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a gap > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends up > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF? Loni
--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 12:33 PM > Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... > > Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... You and Paul are talking about two different things -- you are talking about low frequencies (60 hz), while Paul is talking about high frequencies (RF, around 1 Ghz). Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by charles-4
Charles, Hmmm, what is VLF? Loni
--- On Fri, 2/19/10, charles <[hidden email]> wrote: From: charles <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions! To: [hidden email] Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 12:37 PM You may pick-up VLF from your grounding, from waterpipes, even from gas pipings. And the wirings from the cable TV can conduct VLF. I have measured VLF form televisions, that were really off. The screens worked like a second antenna, like most metallic surfaces can do. Not everybody can measure that. And it is the VLF that is *killing* and frying electrosensitives. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton ----- Original Message ----- From: "stephen_vandevijve re" <stephen_vandevijver [hidden email]> To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 8:15 PM Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! Hello Loni, Maybe I'm wrong but what PUK is mentioning seems very unlikely to me... Electricity can easily be measured with a low freq. emf meter... Let me know if anybody measures low freq. emf if the breakers are off... Of course if you're in an appartment you may measure the electricity from the neighbours.. . And we're talking about low emf (electricity) here not emf from antennas outside. If you suddenly feel worse it can be a new antenna outside, your neighbour that has installed a new wireless phone or so many other things... hope you get better soon, greets, Stephen --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, Loni <loni326@... > wrote: > > Stephen, > Â > Hmmm, well I was hoping that would be the case for me also but it was not. > I think PUK is correct on that however. It could also be the neighbor's > wireless too I suppose. > Â > That's great you get some relief turning it off. I will try again. Loni > > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> > wrote: > > > From: stephen_vandevijver e <stephen_vandevijve re@...> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Reactions! > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 6:46 AM > > > Â > > > > I put my breakers off at night and it feels better especially when I'm > feeling electrocuted. .. > > I must say this is something of a surprise to me what PUK is writing > here... > > Stephen. > > > PUK replies - Radiowave frequency electrical energy can run through and > > over wiring and pass the breakers, normal breakers do not have much of a > > gap > > when they are set to off position so the RF just jumps the gap, and ends > > up > > on the wiring anyway perhaps more diluted > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------ --------- --------- ------ Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Loni Rosser
> Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF? Loni
"EMF" is a generic term which includes most everything ("electromagnetic fields"), while RF is a specific type of EMF (radio frequencies"). According to Wikipedia, RF includes everything from 3 KHz to 300 GHz, which is quite a large range. But that does not include the frequency of 100 volt AC power, which is at a much lower 60 hz. So, cellphone towers are both EMF and RF. The primary field in your electrical power lines are EMF, but not RF. The noise that is riding along your electrical power lines (and could be filtered out) contains RF. Marc |
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