Reactions!

Hi Bill,
 
I put the radio up to the wall where the plugs are & no buzz. Up to the computer monitor & big buzz. Loni

--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Bill Bruno <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Bill Bruno <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 7:48 AM


To get back to the original post, the first thing any electrosensitive
should do (after turning off the obvious wireless things) is hold a portable
AM radio
up to a lightswitch.  If there is a buzz, turn off all the power.  If the
buzz stops,
turn on breakers one by one to see which circuit has the culprit.  If a
circuit with just a regular incandescent lightbulb only plugged in causes a
buzz along its wires, then there differential mode noise from a source
nearby, possibly a neighbor on the same transformer (get them to look for
faulty outdoor wiring and add filtered surge suppressors for electronics).

If the buzz is still there with the power off, you have common mode noise
from elsewhere.  Either get a big 3 phase filter (thousands of dollars) and
install at the meter far from the house, or find a way to disconnect the
neutral and ground for the bedroom and nearby rooms.  In some cases it is
possible to disconnect the main neutral wire at the panel (with main breaker
off of course) but I have not been able to do it at my house without risking
breaking the panel or zapping myself.

Still you may find relief with the power off and neutral still connected.
It will reduce the 60Hz electric fields and harmonics significantly (unless
you have all wiring in conduit or shielded, grounded walls, in which case
those are already low).

Bill

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:08 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is RF also electromagnetic?  So the cell antennas put out both of the frequencies RF & EMF? 
 
When the Biologist measured my house the RF was high & the EMF was fairly low.  
 
The noise you talk about is in other words interference or contamination orboth?
 
Sorry this is over my head a tad. Loni

--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:03 AM


 



> Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF?  Loni

"EMF" is a generic term which includes most everything ("electromagnetic
fields"), while RF is a specific type of EMF (radio frequencies" ).
According to Wikipedia, RF includes everything from 3 KHz to 300 GHz,
which is quite a large range. But that does not include the frequency
of 100 volt AC power, which is at a much lower 60 hz.

So, cellphone towers are both EMF and RF.

The primary field in your electrical power lines are EMF, but not RF.

The noise that is riding along your electrical power lines
(and could be filtered out) contains RF.

Marc







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Is RF also electromagnetic?  So the cell antennas put out both of the
> frequencies RF & EMF? 

I don't consider RF and EMF to be 2 separate things. I consider RF
to be a specialized type of EMF.

When your building biologist measured your house, I think when he
was referring to EMF, he meant 60 hz (power lines), and when he
was referring to RF, he was referring to microwave radiation
from cellphone towers (~1 ghz).

> The noise you talk about is in other words interference or contamination
> or both?

I would call it "contamination".

Marc

For more explanations see:
http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina112.html

In general we speak about

low frequency electrical fiels
low frequency magnetic fields
high frequency electromagnetic fields.

In general we speak about low frequency up to ca. 1 MHz, and above that of
high frequency.
The real border lies between 30 and 100 kHz.

In the low frequency region, the electrical field is separated from the
magnetic field, and both must be measured separately.
In the high frequency field, the electrical field is *intertwinded* with the
magnetical field, so there it is sufficient to measure only the electrical
field; the magnetocal component can be calculated here.

The electrical network is supposed to deliver current of 220 Volt/50 Hertz,
or 110 Volt/60 Hertz.
But that is in theory.
There is a lot of *dirt* in the mains electricity net, and besides the 50 or
60 Hz, there are alot of other frequencies, which we call *dirty power*.
That is VLF, mainly frequencies from ca. 1.25 kHz up to 150 kHz (the blank
space between Norm EN50160 and EN 55011/55022), but they may go up to 400
kHz, and even higher as 5 MHz.
They are in the mains, coming from outside, from electrical appliances from
neighbours for instance, or they come from your own appliances, like
computers, lamps, televisions, etc.
So the dirty power can come from the mains, and appliances can put dirty
power back into the mains. It can be treated (partly) with certain filters.
First the souce must be eliminated, and the rest done with filters.

Apart from that, your applications may emit these VLF frequencies *into
space*, for which I named this *dirty air*.
Because it is in the free air, no filter can do here any good.

And in my view, the MODULATIONS, which are on most elektrosmog sources, do
range from 1 Hz up to 20 kHz, and do make the most damage to our bodies.
It is not so the high frequency carrier waves, but their digital information
they carry, which are all lowfrequency.

I even measured a strong 100 kHz frequency inside a 3G (UMTS) signal.
And normally 3 G signals do contain frequencies of 100 Hz, with multiple
harmonics, and 1.5 kHz, with multiple harmonics.

Hope this explains it a bit.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton




----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!


> Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF? Loni

"EMF" is a generic term which includes most everything ("electromagnetic
fields"), while RF is a specific type of EMF (radio frequencies").
According to Wikipedia, RF includes everything from 3 KHz to 300 GHz,
which is quite a large range. But that does not include the frequency
of 100 volt AC power, which is at a much lower 60 hz.

So, cellphone towers are both EMF and RF.

The primary field in your electrical power lines are EMF, but not RF.

The noise that is riding along your electrical power lines
(and could be filtered out) contains RF.

Marc


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Charles,
 
Well I read this twice & am more confused I think.
 
There is a lot of *dirt* in the mains electricity net, and besides the 50 or
60 Hz, there are alot of other frequencies, which we call *dirty power*.
That is VLF, mainly frequencies from ca. 1.25 kHz up to 150 kHz (the blank
space between Norm EN50160 and EN 55011/55022) , but they may go up to 400
 
So VLF is dirty electricity? I really don't know what all these measurements mean at all.
 
Thanks for the info Charles! Loni


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, charles <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: charles <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:39 AM


 



For more explanations see:
http://www.milieuzi ektes.nl/ Pagina112. html

In general we speak about

low frequency electrical fiels
low frequency magnetic fields
high frequency electromagnetic fields.

In general we speak about low frequency up to ca. 1 MHz, and above that of
high frequency.
The real border lies between 30 and 100 kHz.

In the low frequency region, the electrical field is separated from the
magnetic field, and both must be measured separately.
In the high frequency field, the electrical field is *intertwinded* with the
magnetical field, so there it is sufficient to measure only the electrical
field; the magnetocal component can be calculated here.

The electrical network is supposed to deliver current of 220 Volt/50 Hertz,
or 110 Volt/60 Hertz.
But that is in theory.
kHz, and even higher as 5 MHz.
They are in the mains, coming from outside, from electrical appliances from
neighbours for instance, or they come from your own appliances, like
computers, lamps, televisions, etc.
So the dirty power can come from the mains, and appliances can put dirty
power back into the mains. It can be treated (partly) with certain filters.
First the souce must be eliminated, and the rest done with filters.

Apart from that, your applications may emit these VLF frequencies *into
space*, for which I named this *dirty air*.
Because it is in the free air, no filter can do here any good.

And in my view, the MODULATIONS, which are on most elektrosmog sources, do
range from 1 Hz up to 20 kHz, and do make the most damage to our bodies.
It is not so the high frequency carrier waves, but their digital information
they carry, which are all lowfrequency.

I even measured a strong 100 kHz frequency inside a 3G (UMTS) signal.
And normally 3 G signals do contain frequencies of 100 Hz, with multiple
harmonics, and 1.5 kHz, with multiple harmonics.

Hope this explains it a bit.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <marc@ufoseries. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!

> Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF? Loni

"EMF" is a generic term which includes most everything ("electromagnetic
fields"), while RF is a specific type of EMF (radio frequencies" ).
According to Wikipedia, RF includes everything from 3 KHz to 300 GHz,
which is quite a large range. But that does not include the frequency
of 100 volt AC power, which is at a much lower 60 hz.

So, cellphone towers are both EMF and RF.

The primary field in your electrical power lines are EMF, but not RF.

The noise that is riding along your electrical power lines
(and could be filtered out) contains RF.

Marc

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links









     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> So VLF is dirty electricity? I really don't know what all these
> measurements mean at all.

The only "needed" frequency on the electrical power lines is
60 hz (US, etc.) or 50 hz (Europe, etc.). All other frequencies
(RF,VLF,etc.) are considered the "dirt".

Marc

Thanks for clarifying Marc. Loni

--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 11:25 AM


 



> So VLF is dirty electricity? I really don't know what all these
> measurements mean at all.

The only "needed" frequency on the electrical power lines is
60 hz (US, etc.) or 50 hz (Europe, etc.). All other frequencies
(RF,VLF,etc. ) are considered the "dirt".

Marc








     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think I'd agree with that being what the building biologist meant.  It's what my dad seems to do quite often when I tell him about different measurements; he uses the term EMF for 60 Hz electric or magnetic fields a lot.

--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Received: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 5:26 PM







 



 


   
     
     
> Is RF also electromagnetic?  So the cell antennas put out bothof the

> frequencies RF & EMF? 



I don't consider RF and EMF to be 2 separate things. I consider RF

to be a specialized type of EMF.



When your building biologist measured your house, I think when he

was referring to EMF, he meant 60 hz (power lines), and when he

was referring to RF, he was referring to microwave radiation

from cellphone towers (~1 ghz).



> The noise you talk about is in other words interference or contamination

> or both?



I would call it "contamination" .



Marc



   
     

   
   


 



 






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

See http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina112.html

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton




----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!


Charles,

Well I read this twice & am more confused I think.

There is a lot of *dirt* in the mains electricity net, and besides the 50 or
60 Hz, there are alot of other frequencies, which we call *dirty power*.
That is VLF, mainly frequencies from ca. 1.25 kHz up to 150 kHz (the blank
space between Norm EN50160 and EN 55011/55022) , but they may go up to 400

So VLF is dirty electricity? I really don't know what all these measurements
mean at all.

Thanks for the info Charles! Loni


--- On Sat, 2/20/10, charles <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: charles <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:39 AM






For more explanations see:
http://www.milieuzi ektes.nl/ Pagina112. html

In general we speak about

low frequency electrical fiels
low frequency magnetic fields
high frequency electromagnetic fields.

In general we speak about low frequency up to ca. 1 MHz, and above that of
high frequency.
The real border lies between 30 and 100 kHz.

In the low frequency region, the electrical field is separated from the
magnetic field, and both must be measured separately.
In the high frequency field, the electrical field is *intertwinded* with the
magnetical field, so there it is sufficient to measure only the electrical
field; the magnetocal component can be calculated here.

The electrical network is supposed to deliver current of 220 Volt/50 Hertz,
or 110 Volt/60 Hertz.
But that is in theory.
kHz, and even higher as 5 MHz.
They are in the mains, coming from outside, from electrical appliances from
neighbours for instance, or they come from your own appliances, like
computers, lamps, televisions, etc.
So the dirty power can come from the mains, and appliances can put dirty
power back into the mains. It can be treated (partly) with certain filters.
First the souce must be eliminated, and the rest done with filters.

Apart from that, your applications may emit these VLF frequencies *into
space*, for which I named this *dirty air*.
Because it is in the free air, no filter can do here any good.

And in my view, the MODULATIONS, which are on most elektrosmog sources, do
range from 1 Hz up to 20 kHz, and do make the most damage to our bodies.
It is not so the high frequency carrier waves, but their digital information
they carry, which are all lowfrequency.

I even measured a strong 100 kHz frequency inside a 3G (UMTS) signal.
And normally 3 G signals do contain frequencies of 100 Hz, with multiple
harmonics, and 1.5 kHz, with multiple harmonics.

Hope this explains it a bit.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <marc@ufoseries. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Reactions!

> Marc, So RF is considered higher frequency than EMF? Loni

"EMF" is a generic term which includes most everything ("electromagnetic
fields"), while RF is a specific type of EMF (radio frequencies" ).
According to Wikipedia, RF includes everything from 3 KHz to 300 GHz,
which is quite a large range. But that does not include the frequency
of 100 volt AC power, which is at a much lower 60 hz.

So, cellphone towers are both EMF and RF.

The primary field in your electrical power lines are EMF, but not RF.

The noise that is riding along your electrical power lines
(and could be filtered out) contains RF.

Marc

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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