How to get Phone and Internet Safely to Affordable Rural Spot

I have also made some serious enemies in the ES community for asking the question my post is about. Sorry I am not as rich as they, where I can afford a rural compound w/ all the services and the jet that they have.

I see nothing wrong w/ trying to use what's available so I can move away from all that is close now and figuring out how to do that w/ minimal damage and risk.  I think most here get it. Now to figure out how to make this work safely!

"serious enemies in the ES community"? Wow, that is seriously sad.

It sounds like you do not know that very soon they are going to blanket
the world with WiFry from space. Some people are trying to stop it, but the
Telcoms power is so massive, it is like a flea trying stop a locomotive.

I'm thinking underground - there are old military underground bases for
sale. But then the entire earth, even the ground, will be polluted with the
stuff. I guess it will be a new "survival of the fittest" and maybe people
like us will perish before they make it out of the womb.  

When I lay down to sleep with my body vibrating and heart weirding out in
my chest, I think good, maybe this is the end ... I have neither the means
nor the ability to plot an escape from this torture. I've tried. And a
couple of hours later I wake up once again with head and chest burning hot
and purple red.

Here's a project planning for the day the whole globe is beamed with WiFry
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1709908222561311/
"The GROW Dome - by Jennifer Wood.  I am designing a giant geodesic,
Faraday Caged dome for when (and if) the horrific global WiFi from space is
completed during the next few years. Ideally it will fit over pasture and
pine forest. " and the description goes on...

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:37:34 -0700 (MST), "JDark [via ES]"
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have also made some serious enemies in the ES community for asking the
> question my post is about. Sorry I am not as rich as they, where I can
> afford a rural compound w/ all the services and the jet that they have.
>
> I see nothing wrong w/ trying to use what's available so I can move away
> from all that is close now and figuring out how to do that w/ minimal
> damage and risk. I think most here get it. Now to figure out how to make
> this work safely!

On October 22, "KarenEck [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It sounds like you do not know that very soon they are going to blanket
> the world with WiFry from space.

This is one of those unfortunate false rumors that gets spread onto these groups, as part of a general "doom & gloom" attitude that some people have.

The proposals I've seen for thousands of satellites in space providing "wi-fi" would be so expensive to implement that nobody could afford to do it, and certainly whoever tried would go bankrupt.  No matter who it is.  

I recall such an idea being announced in the 1990s (Teledesic), with participation from the richest man in the world, Bill Gates.  That project died very quickly as being impractical.

Also, there already is internet access from space, but it requires a satellite dish, special modem, and costs more money than the competition (cable and DSL).  And that's been active for at least a decade.  The USA is already "blanketed" in this.  And for the foreseeable future, this is the only kind of internet access from space that is commercially viable.

Marc

Marc Martin wrote

 

There are certain cable length limitations on USB cables, but you can bypass those limits with special cables, signal boosters, or fiber optics (although fiber optics would be much more expensive).  So yes, 30 feet is certainly "doable".

 If you need to break the electrical link between the USB stick and the computer, then fiber optics would do that, but that could $200 for a 30-foot fiber optic USB extension cable.  I have such a cable, but didn't notice that it was such a big improvement over a regular 15 foot cable, and also not very compact for traveling.

Marc

Marc, I have been looking into this more.

For the internet:
As far as the USB set up for internet, I was thinking 100 feet or less and getting some flex conduit to protect from the weather. I am not sure fiber optic would be any improvement or necessary as the internet does not go by my ear as a phone receiver does.

Is the amt of feet too far-will there be loss of quality in the 100 ft or less line?

Is there a certain kind of USB cable I need to buy as just to have it work?


For the phone:
I do think fiber optic cable would be a must on this one. Also in some flex all weather conduit. There is no case of being a few feet from the phone receiver as it's by the head when on it. Also the eiwell spring site used it. So it's a given. I went to amazon I looked up 100 ft fiber optic cable and got all this:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=100+fiber+optic+cable

I would not be sure which or if there is a certain type of cable to buy here. I realize you mentioned above that you paid $200 bucks for one, but that was the special USB and here I referencing phone line.

Can you tell me what type of fiber optic cable I would need for the phone.?

Also the eiwellspring guy talks of needing some sort of interface between the fiber optic cable and the verizon phone. As there is no one there I can get any info, do you know anything about any of this or where I could find out more?

Then another though hit me. Before I found what was making me sick, I had a verizon "home phone connect" the basic phone cord goes into the unit and connects to the landline. So what I am referring to is basic phone cord that is from .50 cents to $20 depending on where purchased for 50 to 100 feet. This is for indoor use so not made to run across the yard and would probably send me more EMFS, but thinking this inside conduit in a pinch temporarily for some time while I work out something w/ fiber optic.
Would like to hear your take on this also?

Bear with me. Trying to figure this out. I am quite the geek , but not really enough of one for stuff like this, so I am having a lot of question as I try to learn.
Thanx

This person knows a lot about fiber optic cables and connections.
There a lot on the site somewhere.
He's in Hawaii, and will do a short free consult then charge for his time.
http://www.conradbiologic.com/

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:26:06 -0700 (MST), "JDark [via ES]"
<[hidden email]> wrote:
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Karen, I just bookmarked you link. Thank you. I realize I am moving into very uncharted waters with this. AS I am more for overall "avoidance" of all RFs. But in this case I could have great improvement if I am open to trying the things I have spoken of. Not perfect but progress.  I will look over that site, as I am looking over other stuff of the like and then probably call as I have more info. I am going to call that centurylink tech that found in the end that I had been lied to also and see if he wants a side job, if all else fails. Sure that would not be cheap. But hey to be free of having to be tied to only the dense population areas is priceless.

Again thanx for the link. I need all the connections on this topic that I can get. No pun intended.

On October 23, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is the amt of feet too far-will there be loss of quality in the 100 ft or
> less line?

Originally, USB cables were only meant to go a maximum of 15 feet.  However, looking around, I see that some manufacturers have managed to far exceed that.  For example, here is a 100 foot USB cable:

  http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-100X.html

> For the phone:
> I do think fiber optic cable would be a must on this one.

What are you trying to do?  It sounds like you are trying to use a fiber optic cable instead of regular phone wiring?  I've never heard of anything like that.  When I said that I had a fiber optic cable, it's a USB cable, and at each end it has a converter to convert the fiber optic signal back to USB.  Also, one end has to be plugged into an AC/DC adapter to power it.

Are you planning on having phone access via your internet connection?  In which case, the phone probably plugs into an ethernet cable.
 
> Then another though hit me. Before I found what was making me sick, I had a
> verizon "home phone connect" the basic phone cord goes into the unit and
> connects to the landline. So what I am referring to is basic phone cord that
> is from .50 cents to $20 depending on where purchased for 50 to 100 feet.
> This is for indoor use so not made to run across the yard and would probably
> send me more EMFS, but thinking this inside conduit in a pinch temporarily
> for some time while I work out something w/ fiber optic.
> Would like to hear your take on this also?

The regular, old fashioned phone wiring can go quite a long distance... it must, since it gets routed all over people's houses.  Usually phone wiring doesn't cause much in the way of symptoms, although I have experienced problems with it when DSL is added to the signal.  If you're worried about weather, there is outdoor phone wiring that gets used to run extra lines via the outside of people's houses (I have some of that on the outside of my house, installed by the phone company).

Marc

Marc Martin wrote

> For the phone:

What are you trying to do?  It sounds like you are trying to use a fiber
optic cable instead of regular phone wiring?  I've never heard of anything
like that.  When I said that I had a fiber optic cable, it's a USB cable,
and at each end it has a converter to convert the fiber optic signal back to
USB.  Also, one end has to be plugged into an AC/DC adapter to power it.

Are you planning on having phone access via your internet connection?  In
which case, the phone probably plugs into an ethernet cable.
 


The regular, old fashioned phone wiring can go quite a long distance... it
must, since it gets routed all over people's houses.  Usually phone wiring
doesn't cause much in the way of symptoms, although I have experienced
problems with it when DSL is added to the signal.  If you're worried about
weather, there is outdoor phone wiring that gets used to run extra lines via
the outside of people's houses (I have some of that on the outside of my
house, installed by the phone company).

Quoted from:
http://es-forum.com/How-to-get-Phone-and-Internet-Safely-to-Affordable-Rural-Spot-tp4028343p4028426.html

Marc I am aware the fiber optic cable you were talking about was for USB, but in the phone set up I was originally asking about when I made the post he has used a verizon "home phone connect" device linked here <a href=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEvN9jIvQw</a>
which is a cell router from towers and connected it to the house by fiber optic to cut the tranmissions through the wire down.
Here is the article http://www.eiwellspring.org/tech/ZeroEMFCellular.htm       
what he did and the type of set up I am interested in-he powered the device w/ solar and I have a DC adapter that will plug right into the verizon unit-exact specs too. What i am trying to do for the phone is like that but he does not really give enough info as far as how to set it up. I think the fiber optic cable is worth it here as a land phone w/ a receiver used at the ear is the end piece. I can do the solar set up. I do not know how to get the rest set up to work and then if it's really safe. I already know this is not Zero EMF-he says that a lot, due to having been misinformed by others, but the plan is good and would first want to know if it's worth doing safety wise and then how to get it done if it is or if there is another way.

It does sound hard and expensive and maybe impossible to set it up the way this eiwellspring guy did and NO instructions or guidance available. So the thought that came to my mind is:  maybe use the outdoor phone wiring, that you mention above as a temporary fix, until I can find out how to do the better fiber optic option and someone who can know how and work with me on it. I used that verizon unit before and removed it when I found I was sensitive and it is an OK home phone.  Going over the net VOIP, not so much and not on a weak cell G3 at a distance network. The internet is going to have to be separate.  As you say the DSL is a problem coming through the line and that makes me wonder if the "verizon home phone connect" is not going to send a lot through the line as well. According to the eiwellspring article: he can tolerate the verizon 1/2 vs 1 hr on the phone company landline.

Jen

Also for the net I came up w/ the idea of using a Mifi and running a cable from it to the house. That would be a USB and after you said you did not find much improvement w/ the fiber optic USB, I figure just go regular USB and then I do not hold the computer it's plugged to up to my ear, as I would the phone and will more likely be at least 5 ft from it to boot.

Thinking something Like:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XPBRSPG?keywords=100%20ft%20usb%20cable&qid=1445750137&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

as the form of connection the Mifi uses is USB to the computer, if you are going to not use the wireless feature. Also the USB can power the unit. So no solar, battery, adapter set up. I am still not sure if one of the units I am looking into can run on USB w/ out battery in it-one of the reviewers on amazon says you can and uses it that way. The guy from Novatel, who speaks NO English says probably not. If the unit works w/ out the battery then the unit can be turned off and on by pulling the plug out and back in.

Other concerns come to my mind as how to "secure" this unit inside the box outside. I thought I saw some stumps on all the Mifi units where they could grow legs and walk away fast.LOL!  And then how to wire it into the trailer itself, as stringing it through a cracked window just is not the way to go. One person says they are using some sort of cellular antenna and a disconnect switch, but they are not saying any more than that and that is bothers some of the sensitives, but that is not info I can use, like brand, type and set up.

Seems that this here is a pioneer project: not the first of it's kind, but the first that can be shared w/ others in need, like me if it works.

Most ES now are living remote and going to public offices and libraries for phone/internet and that a way too much RFs for me, that's if I could get to those places to begin with.

> Marc I am aware the fiber optic cable you were talking about was for USB,
> but in the phone set up I was originally asking about when I made the post
> he has used a verizon "home phone connect" device linked here  href=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELEvN9jIvQw</a>
> which is a cell router from towers and connected it to the house by fiber
> optic to cut the tranmissions through the wire down.
> Here is the article  http://www.eiwellspring.org/tech/ZeroEMFCellular.htm

Well yes, but I see that he had a custom piece of electronics built to convert a phone signal to fiber and back, designed for people who are ES.  That is not something that you can get, unless you can get him to build you one.

As for what's available commercially to do that, I see that there are such things, but it's $500, and I assume you'd need 2 of them at each end.  And these aren't designed for people with ES, so one could react badly to the converters:

  http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/c/POTS%28phone%29_over_fiber.html

And that doesn't even include the cost of the fiber optic cable!

So I'd say just using simple cheap phone wire would be your best option.  Maybe even find some twisted-pair phone wiring, as that might be better all-around.

> As you say the DSL is a problem coming through the
> line and that makes me wonder if the "verizon home phone connect" is not
> going to send a lot through the line as well. According to the eiwellspring
> article: he can tolerate the verizon 1/2 vs 1 hr on the phone company
> landline.

The verizon home phone connect should just be sending out a standard landline phone signal, shouldn't it?  It's not going to have any DSL signals or anything else running on top of that?  That should be tolerable, and if there is unwanted noise on the phone cabling, then I'd think ferrites or twisted-pair wiring would be an easy/cheap thing to try.

Marc

Marc:  

No DSL running through the line, but I would think that it would be more similar to the RF radiation that runs up the standard earphone wire when plugged into a cellphone. Of course the wire being over 30 feet and then having a landline phone plugged in would reduce it.  The man in the article, said that he was able to tolerate a reg landline for and hour and the "home phone connect" for only a half hour, after it was set up w/ the fiber optic set up-so just going on those things in my assumptions.

I agree $500 for a product on each end is too much!  I have heard there is someone working on a similar item to the one in the ei article and will try to get more info, in the meantime cheap phone wire is probably the best, option.

How would I go about finding the wire especally the twisted phone wire?

Would flex all weather conduit work for me if I ran the wire through that?  Or is there some type of all weather wiring that would work?

Fog I heard from him!  It seems even ink bothers him and I noticed the letter is in pencil, so I will respond w/ the same. He has some contacts I will check out. Thank you for the lead.  He also knows someone who is working on building the fiber optic unit needed w/ parts from the US.  The unit in the article was built by a man in Europe and so a big part of the problem of getting it here.

He does not know about a like internet set up, only phone, but that is a big help as I am setting up one of each. Due to cell service limitations there are already nerds that are putting them in weather-proof boxes and broadcasting them from a tree and use a pully to get it up and down to change the battery. Of course I am wanting to wire it to the computer and so do not have to change out dead batteries.

A reseller of verizon service said they would just send me the used phone w/ the month to month service. Then I have to get wire, conduit, solar panel, control switch, fuzes, battery, container that will house electronics and battery away from eachother and way to secure it from theft etc...

The sooner I do all this the better.

On October 29, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How would I go about finding the wire especally the twisted phone wire?

I just figured it would turn up in a Google search... for example, this looks like the right kind of stuff:

http://www.cablesondemand.com/category/MPUSCat5E/product/MP-52RJ11UNNE/URvars/Items/Library/InfoManage/MP-52RJ11UNNE.htm

Marc

On October 29, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No DSL running through the line, but I would think that it would be more
> similar to the RF radiation that runs up the standard earphone wire when
> plugged into a cellphone.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing when I got my fiber optic cable extender for a USB cable, however like I said before, it didn't make much (if any) difference.  Keep in mind that the conversion to/from fiber optics requires power & electronics, so this has the potential to add noise to your connection that wouldn't otherwise be there with regular/cheap/long cables.  So there's a tradeoff there somewhere.  And it's certainly much cheaper to avoid fiber optics!

Marc

Marc Martin wrote

On October 29, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> How would I go about finding the wire especally the twisted phone wire?

I just figured it would turn up in a Google search... for example, this looks like the right kind of stuff:

http://www.cablesondemand.com/category/MPUSCat5E/product/MP-52RJ11UNNE/URvars/Items/Library/InfoManage/MP-52RJ11UNNE.htm

Marc

Marc: Is that wire in the link twisted inside or does it have to be twisted?

You mentioned earlier about all weather phone cable: How is this going to hold up in the sun on it's run from the phone to the house? Would getting wet and flooded damage this?

Also the home phone connect units by verizon and all others all use the standard phone plug and so does the outside of my trailer where I connect to have it go inside to jacks.  What would I do about changing these ones or can I?

Do I use some sort of conduit, say the flex type?  

Sorry I am not good w/ this cable, wires and install stuff, though willing to learn.

Marc Martin wrote

On October 29, "JDark [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> No DSL running through the line, but I would think that it would be more
> similar to the RF radiation that runs up the standard earphone wire when
> plugged into a cellphone.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing when I got my fiber optic cable extender for a USB cable, however like I said before, it didn't make much (if any) difference.  Keep in mind that the conversion to/from fiber optics requires power & electronics, so this has the potential to add noise to your connection that wouldn't otherwise be there with regular/cheap/long cables.  So there's a tradeoff there somewhere.  And it's certainly much cheaper to avoid fiber optics!

Marc

I know for the net, I do not want to waste the bucks, as I sit far from the screen anyway. Not sure about the phone, but for starters I would be best w/ basic and then can always upgrade to fiber later if needed. Good point about the other electronics adding noise. Had not thought of that.

> Marc: Is that wire in the link twisted inside or does it have to be twisted?

It says it's already twisted.
 
> You mentioned earlier about all weather phone cable: How is this going to
> hold up in the sun on it's run from the phone to the house? Would getting
> wet and flooded damage this?

Um, I don't know if this is weather-proof, or whether it would need something around it.  The folks who sell it should have an idea.

> Also the home phone connect units by verizon and all others all use the
> standard phone plug and so does the outside of my trailer where I connect to
> have it go inside to jacks.  What would I do about changing these ones or
> can I?

This is a standard phone cable -- it uses RJ11, which is a standard phone line plug.

Marc

Marc Martin wrote

It says it's already twisted.
 
Um, I don't know if this is weather-proof, or whether it would need something around it.  The folks who sell it should have an idea.


This is a standard phone cable -- it uses RJ11, which is a standard phone line plug.

Marc

Thanks. Hard to tell from the pictures what type of plugs those are. I will  call that company this week, to find out about how to weather proof. In all the set up to do this w/ the phone is far more complicating than the internet. This phone beast has a lot more issues to solve.


Also is this the only company that carries this type of cable or are there others?




Once I get the cable worked out then there is:  Solar system for the phone, the enclosure that keeps phone and other electronics separate from the small battery. Then a kill switch to turn the phone on and off. Also a way to secure all this so it does not walk away. I am clueless so far as how to do all this as well.

I put all the issues in one post, when I originally posted this.

The phone is a quit complex issue alone requiring several solutions to make it work.

The internet is completely a different animal and plugs in by usb and have learned a lot. Non ES folks are putting mifis in trees and turning their yards into wifi spots-when there is no DSL/cable available. That is not what I would want, but goes to show people are running it from outside, but in a far different way. Those electronics seem to take naturally to working remotely wired though not the intent of the designer. I have been figuring out a lot on the internet and so I am going to start a new thread on just solving the internet and I will leave this one to keep talking about the phone.

Think that will be easier and not so confusing as they are so different.