EMF & full spectrum (or near full) light

Thanks, I gues I'll just wait for the new version!
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Cara" <[hidden email]>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again, Marc,
   
I guess our differences are in the semantics. I do understand why you could not use a magnet to detox--it was detoxing too much. However, my pointwas that often people say they react to items/supplements with bad reactions and quit them, when this is really due to ANY detoxing--large or small. If you avoid all symptoms of detoxing, you never recover fully from CFIDS/FMS. (I know, Marc, that this does not apply to you personally. You have detoxed to the point of recovery.)  
   
We do, however, have to choose a level of detoxing that we can live with (which usually still means you are sick, just not as sick as to be dysfunctional. But for me personally, I did need to be nearly dysfunctional to begin this process.) I have noticed that I do not get as ill from even heavy detoxing when I couple it with added fiber for the toxins to bind to, tho. I agree that you can redistribute the toxins to other parts of the body ifnot careful, but this has nothing to do with most of the discomfort involved. That has to do with the ability of the elimination systems of the bodyto handle the load. Also there is alot to be understood with how toxins bind to saturated fats, etc with this subject. It is complex. There are other considerations entirely if the toxin is a heavy metal.
   
I reacted badly to both molybdenum and pantethine. These are necessary nutrients for the lymphatic system and sulfination (sp?) pathway, from what I understand. Each of these nutrients have helped me greatly over the pastyear, however, I got horrific reactions from both when I first started them. I quit taking each of them altogether. Later my nutritionist wanted meto go back on each of them and I explained the situation. He told me to take miniscule amounts and build up on them, which I did. They worked greatthis way. Within a week I was taking the full capsules/tablets. Within another couple weeks, I was taking mega doses of pantethine. He told me that I would have also worked thru tolerance if I had kept taking them at the full dose to begin with. It would have just taken me a week or so, but I would have been sicker for awhile and worked thru that. (These did make me totally dysfunctional, tho, so I doubt myself that I could have gone this route.)
   
Now, when I get this reaction with new items/supplements, I do not regardit as necessarily bad. I continue doing whatever is giving me the reaction and see if it tapers off in a few days. If the reaction is extreme or severe, I lessen the dose or I put the item further away from me. But I do not quit the product altogether. Usually I find that the reaction levels off and I tolerate it better within a week. Am I ill alot while doing this? Yes, I am. However, the quicker I can detox, the better I am each time Itake a break from it. I do not stop a product if it continues to give me ongoing detox symptoms either. I take many supplements that give me ongoing detox symptoms, I just adjust the doses to a level I can live with.
   
Obviously I am not going to make myself ill to the point of being totallydysfunctional, but I now realize that to get to where I want to go (total,full health), I am going to have to endure some pain along the way. I have gone from bed-bound to just pretty nearly normal. In just the past year alone, I have gone from unable to exert myself physically without a relapse(rapidly falling bp and total adrenal dysfunction) to the point of being able to exercise on a regular basis. I am not going to qualify for a tri-athelon competition anytime soon, but in my eyes this is great progress.
   
My original point was that many people never get to actual detoxing because they think that any discomfort is a bad thing. You cannot detox withoutdiscomfort. Also, detoxing takes a very long time. While we are detoxing, we are accumulating new toxins in most cases. Some of our toxins are replicating (as in the example of bad gut flora.) Such is life and even more so in the days in which we live.
   
Diane

Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> But don't you think that you needed the detoxing?  

Yes, I *do* think I need the detoxing, but it cannot be done using a
method that's going to cause more harm than good. If you are
having adverse detox reactions, then most likely you are
redistributing the toxins to another part of the body, and doing
more damage.  
               
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> Hi again, Marc,
> I guess our differences are in the semantics.

Yes, I think we are in agreement. :-) I pretty much detox at the
maximum rate I can without feeling too bad -- even today, 5 years
later! Although there is usually a point almost every day where
I feel that I'm overdoing it and have to back off.

And certainly some of the most helpful supplements, therapies,
etc. in the long-run gave me a bad reaction initially, and
I also had to build up my tolerance to them. And I agree that
there is a tendency among those in the discussion groups to
not take things that give them ANY bad reaction, which I
think is not going to serve their goals of improved health.

For me, though, I pretty much discontinue any supplement,
therapy, etc. that gives me chest pains and panic attacks.
Of all the detox symptoms, these are pretty disturbing.
Chia seeds do this to me. The supplement Modifilan also.
Orgone pendants as well. Those immortality ring magnets too.
And most recently, the supplement Natural Cellular Defense
(NCD). The NCD was the only thing that I could find that I
could find a small enough dose that it wasn't too unpleasant,
and I really should (at some point) try to build up my
tolerance to that.

Marc

does anyone know of a source for 12V DC Halogen lights to replace
1141 & 1076 rv/automobile bulbs. the bulbs i've found online are all
the wrong type base.

--- In [hidden email], Garth Hitchens <garth@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure of any advantage in running DC lighting from an ES
> > perspective. As far as I know, halogen lights are supposed to
> > be bad news, although perhaps the reason for this is the AC-DC
> > transformer? Also, florescent lighting is bad news in general.
>
> The advantage of DC lighting from an ES perspective is simply that
DC  
> wiring and fixtures don't produce any EMF at all, so there is no  
> danger of ES from DC wiring, fixtures, etc. This is assuming you  
> DONT'T use something like a DC fluorescent light which converts
the  
> DC to AC in order to run the fluorescent tube.
>
> 12V DC Halogen lights would be no problem, and would generate no
EMF  
> either. The problem with halogen fixtures which run on AC
power  
> is that those which use low voltage bulbs use a step-down
transformer  
> which generates high EMFs.
>
> Garth
>

> >So when you wear a magnet next to skin what about blood polarity
heama/metal content will this generate a form of occillating feild ?  
will it have effect of altering the electron spin in blood corpusles
etc which must have a major knock on effect. One theory I have is that
my Tinittus may be partly due/exacerbated by, a change in blood
polarity as it passes my audiological nerve which then stimulates the
nerve and cillia in a foreign way hence hf sounds etc ... ?


Paul

This issue re earths decaying mag feilds has got to be part of the
problem this would gradually alter so many of our trusted physical laws
as ES persons we may be the first to know ! Lets face it we are
canaries down the mine or perhaps organic Barometers, I am sure that
the answers to alot of this are to be found in genes, tracing your tree
and perhpas there is a purpose to our torment that lies hidden for
know. There is nothing new under the sun, however !

Hello,

everything that is magnetic, whether DC or AC, does have an impact on the
body.

The impact on electrosensible people is much greater than on ordinary
people.

So my advice is, stay away from it as far away as possible.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

> everything that is magnetic, whether DC or AC, does have an impact on the
> body.

One of the things that has mystified me in the past year
is how the latest iteration of my employer's work ID
badge causes me problems. So much so that I probably
only wear it for a few minutes a day. Since the badge
has no power source (although it does have a proximity
antenna plus some kind of chip with 32k memory), I
wonder if it simply has something magnetic in it
that's bothering me...

Marc

I am mildly ES, but react strongly to cell phones. I am not (yet)
convinced that this is just one problem, I think you can be sensitive to
microwaves more than ordinary electro fields.

Anyway, I use the North pole of magnets against skin regularly with no
trouble at all. They are very helpful, I use them to relax the liver
(assists with detox), to treat pain (especially dental), to treat insect
bites (my whole family uses them for this, very powerful), and to assist
with sleep (you actually must use the magnets late afternoon to help
with sleep that night). I have also used them to stop seizure activity
(a magnetic headband).

Sometimes I get a mild tinnitus from the magnets, but it does not last,
and the benefits outweigh that mild noise. But if someone uses a cell
phone within about 10m, my brain feels like it is full of glue. Just
bogs down for awhile.

Magnets are not EMF, they are natural magnetics and do not have
'frequency' issues.

--Kurt

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
espaules
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 5:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: SPAM-MED: [eSens] Re: magnets

> >So when you wear a magnet next to skin what about blood polarity
heama/metal content will this generate a form of occillating feild ?
will it have effect of altering the electron spin in blood corpusles
etc which must have a major knock on effect. One theory I have is that
my Tinittus may be partly due/exacerbated by, a change in blood
polarity as it passes my audiological nerve which then stimulates the
nerve and cillia in a foreign way hence hf sounds etc ... ?


Paul






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Kurt, there you are wrong.

Magnets belong to EMF.

We have:
electrical AC fields
magnetic AC fields
electrical DC fields
magnetic DC fields (where the magnets belong)
electromagnetic DC fields

First you feel a lot of high frequency fields, but later you will be also
more sensible to low frequency fields.
Be aware.


Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

I don't believe that permanent magnets are in the same class as EMF, as
there is no electricity involved. Magnets are natural, we have a magnet
in our brains! In the pineal gland. The body is supposed to have
magnetic fields, it uses them. The body also relies on the earth's
magnetic field. A permanent magnet can be very helpful with many
medical conditions.

But I agree with you that the sensitivity to even permanent magnets
could change, I have experienced this. When I am sick for example, my
sensitivity to the magnets changes a bit, but usually I actually need
them even more during that time.

I think this is complicated, the problems occur when an external field
interferes with our own field. Perhaps tolerance will vary according to
the type of illness a person has. Much of this also may relate to ion
channelopathies. I usually take electrolytes every few hours, and that
helps me a great deal.

--Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
charles
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: SPAM-MED: Re: [eSens] Re: magnets

Hello Kurt, there you are wrong.

Magnets belong to EMF.

We have:
electrical AC fields
magnetic AC fields
electrical DC fields
magnetic DC fields (where the magnets belong)
electromagnetic DC fields

First you feel a lot of high frequency fields, but later you will be
also
more sensible to low frequency fields.
Be aware.


Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus


>
> Sometimes I get a mild tinnitus from the magnets, but it does not
last,
> and the benefits outweigh that mild noise. But if someone uses a cell
> phone within about 10m, my brain feels like it is full of glue. Just
> bogs down for awhile.
>
> Magnets are not EMF, they are natural magnetics and do not have
> 'frequency' issues.
>
> --Kurt
>




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Marc,
   
I am the same--there is a particular time everyday when I seem most challenged by detoxing. It is from around 1PM to around 4 PM. Is that the sametime you have problems? Just curious. I figured it was just an individual thing, but maybe it is hormonal and circadium rhythms affect it.
   
Is the Natural Cellular Defense supplement a softgel cap or powder capsule? I assume you know that you can break powder caps open and take just a portion of the powder and repack the remainder into an empty capsule. But do you know you can do the same with softgels? Prick the outside of the capwith a sterilized pin and gently squeeze some out. Then if you leave the softgel for awhile, the pin prick dries up. You can even put the excess ofthe oil into an empty capsule case sometimes and take that later. This iswhat I do to get past the initial period with most of my supplements.
   
Be well,
Diane

Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
I pretty much detox at the
maximum rate I can without feeling too bad -- even today, 5 years
later! Although there is usually a point almost every day where
I feel that I'm overdoing it and have to back off.  

And most recently, the supplement Natural Cellular Defense
(NCD). The NCD was the only thing that I could find that I
could find a small enough dose that it wasn't too unpleasant,
and I really should (at some point) try to build up my
tolerance to that.

               
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I am the same--there is a particular time everyday when I seem
>most challenged by detoxing. It is from around 1PM to around 4 PM.
>Is that the same time you have problems? Just curious.
>I figured it was just an individual thing, but maybe it is
>hormonal and circadium rhythms affect it.

For me, excess detox is usually tied to taking too much chelation
stuff, or using my Springlife Polarizers too much. I haven't
noticed any particular time of time it happens.

There is supposed to be a daily cycle where the body alternates
between being in "detox mode" and "rebuilding mode", so this
may be what you are seeing.

>Is the Natural Cellular Defense supplement a softgel cap or
>powder capsule?

It's liquid drops. The recommend dosage is 30 drops per day,
yet I cannot tolerate even 1 drop per day! I was putting 1
drop of it into a glass of water and then drinking half
the glass, which I'd say is like taking 1/2 drop. It's
amazing how sensitive I can be to some things...

One problem that I saw with the NCD was that it did not
appear to have any beneficial effect. That is, a lot of
the time when I take something that gives me some adverse
reaction, I also notice some benefit on top of that --
increased energy levels, better sense of smell, etc. But
with the NCD, all I noticed were negative side effects.
Of course, my dosage was so ridiculously low that I
guess I shouldn't expect any benefits.

> I assume you know that you can break powder caps open

Yes, I tried that with the Modifilan capsules. But
even at 1/10 of a capsule, I couldn't stand taking
it!

>Prick the outside of the cap with a sterilized pin
>and gently squeeze some out.

Yep. Tried that with the cod liver oil and the Krill
oil. Couldn't stand them even at smaller doses.

Lately, most of my attention has been on raw dairy
products. I do notice some adverse effects if I
drink over 16 ounces of raw milk a day, but 8 ounces
seems quite beneficial.

Marc

And, just as a clarifiicatin, magnetic DC fields created by permanent
magnets and magnetic DC fields created by electrical currents are
exactly the same. As mentioned prior, the 500 milligauss natural
magnetic field of the earth is generated, in fact, by circulating DC
electricity.

On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:39 AM, charles wrote:

Hi Kurt and Charles,

Interesting discussion. I know zip about anything technical here (I am an artist/muscian type), so it is helpful for me to learn from all you guys (and ladies) here who know what you are talking about. One thing I have wondered tho.... Marc and I have been having a discussion about detoxing and it has occurred to me that even my cell phone reactions *COULD BE* a type of serious detoxing. (I am not saying they are, but that I am wondering if this is possible). Could this be so and, if so, could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be mixed--magnetic causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other reactions to toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a very stupid question, I know. But I don't expect any of you to play Beethoven symphonies, either ;) so be kind. lol I just notice that most of us here have toxin issues. So, is the ES reacting to the toxins by pulling them out (detoxing) or by magnifying the affects of the toxins and making them
stronger?

What about this, everybody? Does anyone have an opinion to share?

Kurt, it is also interesting about your electrolyte needs. I, too, seem to need alot of electrolytes. I really like the fizz tabs by "Electro-Blast"--they are like alka-seltzers you put into water and are sweetened with only stevia, which is the only sweetener I use. What electrolytes do you use?

Diane
"Kurt R." <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't believe that permanent magnets are in the same class as EMF, as
there is no electricity involved. Magnets are natural, we have a magnet
in our brains! In the pineal gland. The body is supposed to have
magnetic fields, it uses them. The body also relies on the earth's
magnetic field. A permanent magnet can be very helpful with many
medical conditions.

But I agree with you that the sensitivity to even permanent magnets
could change, I have experienced this. When I am sick for example, my
sensitivity to the magnets changes a bit, but usually I actually need
them even more during that time.

I think this is complicated, the problems occur when an external field
interferes with our own field. Perhaps tolerance will vary according to
the type of illness a person has. Much of this also may relate to ion
channelopathies. I usually take electrolytes every few hours, and that
helps me a great deal.

---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Marc and I have been having a discussion about detoxing and
> it has occurred to me that even my cell phone reactions *COULD BE*
> a type of serious detoxing. Could this be so and, if so,
> could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be mixed--magnetic
> causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other reactions to
> toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a very
> stupid question, I know.

Actually, I think that is a very smart question. I think a lot
of people with ES are indeed having "detox" reactions when
exposed to EMF. That is, the EMF is stirring up toxins into
their bloodstream, then they start having an adverse reaction.
That is why when they try something that is good for detoxification,
they may find themselves with *worse* ES symptoms than before.

In such a case, one really should focus on using things that
help you deal with those mobilized toxins (e.g., taking
antioxidants or electrolytes or fiber), or things that will
reduce the mobilization (e.g, avoidance of EMF fields).

One thing that I tried that *really* helped my ES symptoms
was taking antibiotics. Well, of course, antibiotics are
known to halt any detoxification processes dead in their
tracks. No detox = no ES.

When I talk about EMF protection devices, I note that some
make me worse, and some make me better. I think the critical
factor with these devices are how it affects my detoxification
processes. For example, the Springlife Polarizers seem to
have the same effect as mercury chelator -- that is, they
can make you feel better, but if you take too much you will
start feeling terrible. On the other hand, the Quantum
Products are like taking antibiotics -- they offer instant
relief, but they also bring your detoxification processes
to a halt. I go back and forth using these things, helping
me detox at a rate that I am comfortable with, and that essentially
eliminates my ES problems.

Marc

THanks for the info, Marc,
   
I will look into the daily cycle thing and see what I find. I just had not even thought of this till you mentioned having problems everyday. I have not tried many of the items you have tried. Most of mine are supplementsand not exotic in the least. You obviously have spent alot of time in your last 5 years researching detoxing!  

I do react to things, but not quite as badly as you do. Tho, when I started with whey powder, I did have to start with only one or 2 grains of thepowder. Sounds ridiculous, but I had that much reaction! When you took half a glass of the NCD, did you add more water to the mixture that you drank in order to dilute it further? I have at times had to take extremely small amounts of supplements--less than one tenth--too. But I react to medicinal drugs and everything this way. When I was in the hospital, they put meon morphine and I told them to give me only a forth of what they usually give (of that and the anesthetics). It was like they gave me elephant tranquilizers. In the end, they told me they had me down to less than one-fourteenth of the normal dosage and I was still too drugged. My grandmother wasthe same. Everytime she went to the hospital, they overdosed her to the point she nearly died numerous times.
   
I notice benefits from dairy products too. I unfortunately eat too many as that is what I gravitate to now that I do not eat many grains and no sweeteners. Yogurt and cheeses and cocoa! Oh my! lol Okay, now I am just being silly. It is time I get away from this computer awhile! lol
   
Diane  
Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
For me, excess detox is usually tied to taking too much chelation
stuff, or using my Springlife Polarizers too much. I haven't
noticed any particular time of time it happens.

There is supposed to be a daily cycle where the body alternates
between being in "detox mode" and "rebuilding mode", so this
may be what you are seeing.

>Is the Natural Cellular Defense supplement a softgel cap or
>powder capsule?  

It's liquid drops. The recommend dosage is 30 drops per day,
yet I cannot tolerate even 1 drop per day! I was putting 1
drop of it into a glass of water and then drinking half
the glass, which I'd say is like taking 1/2 drop. It's
amazing how sensitive I can be to some things...

One problem that I saw with the NCD was that it did not
appear to have any beneficial effect. That is, a lot of
the time when I take something that gives me some adverse
reaction, I also notice some benefit on top of that --
increased energy levels, better sense of smell, etc. But
with the NCD, all I noticed were negative side effects.
Of course, my dosage was so ridiculously low that I
guess I shouldn't expect any benefits.

> I assume you know that you can break powder caps open

Yes, I tried that with the Modifilan capsules. But
even at 1/10 of a capsule, I couldn't stand taking
it!

>Prick the outside of the cap with a sterilized pin
>and gently squeeze some out.

Yep. Tried that with the cod liver oil and the Krill
oil. Couldn't stand them even at smaller doses.

Lately, most of my attention has been on raw dairy
products. I do notice some adverse effects if I
drink over 16 ounces of raw milk a day, but 8 ounces
seems quite beneficial.


               
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, no, no.
That is utterly nonsense.

Electrical currents have nothing to do with static magnetic fields.

The earth has a magnetic field of about 45.000 nT (nanoTesla).
This has always been, even before the dark Middle Ages, when there even was
no currents, no AC and no DC.
Electricity only exists for the last 200 years.

There are deviations on this magnetic field, by underground water flows,
ruptures in the underground, earth beams, etc.
Those differences can be measured with a magnetometer.

Magnetic fields exist also in many metal parts, like the springs in your
mattress, or the supporting underwired bra.
Or metal supporting beams in houses.
One may check this with a compass.
First check where North is; then go over the place, and when the needle
shows a different direction, you have found a spot.

A Tesla or Gauss meter only measures AC magnetic fields.
AC magnetic fields only occur where current is flowing.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Hitchens" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 22:25
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: magnets

Hi yet again, Marc!

Very informative--thankyou! This explains alot. Why, when I was so ill for years on end I did not really react that badly ES-wise. But now that I am detoxing, I cannot be around cell phones. And thank you for making me feel smart! ! I needed that. lol

Diane

Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Marc and I have been having a discussion about detoxing and
> it has occurred to me that even my cell phone reactions *COULD BE*
> a type of serious detoxing. Could this be so and, if so,
> could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be mixed--magnetic
> causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other reactions to
> toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a very
> stupid question, I know.

Actually, I think that is a very smart question. I think a lot
of people with ES are indeed having "detox" reactions when
exposed to EMF. That is, the EMF is stirring up toxins into
their bloodstream, then they start having an adverse reaction.
That is why when they try something that is good for detoxification,
they may find themselves with *worse* ES symptoms than before.

In such a case, one really should focus on using things that
help you deal with those mobilized toxins (e.g., taking
antioxidants or electrolytes or fiber), or things that will
reduce the mobilization (e.g, avoidance of EMF fields).

One thing that I tried that *really* helped my ES symptoms
was taking antibiotics. Well, of course, antibiotics are
known to halt any detoxification processes dead in their
tracks. No detox = no ES.

When I talk about EMF protection devices, I note that some
make me worse, and some make me better. I think the critical
factor with these devices are how it affects my detoxification
processes. For example, the Springlife Polarizers seem to
have the same effect as mercury chelator -- that is, they
can make you feel better, but if you take too much you will
start feeling terrible. On the other hand, the Quantum
Products are like taking antibiotics -- they offer instant
relief, but they also bring your detoxification processes
to a halt. I go back and forth using these things, helping
me detox at a rate that I am comfortable with, and that essentially
eliminates my ES problems.

Marc


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I will look into the daily cycle thing and see what I find.

I remember where I saw this... it's on this page:

http://healthydetox.org/ndf/faq.html

Here is the relevant part:

"3 am to 3 pm is the body's natural time to detox (catabolic),
3 pm to 3 am is the body's natural time to rebuild (anabolic)."

My only question is what happens when we switch to daylight
savings time? :-)

Marc