shielding

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Drasko Cvijovic

Feb 11, 2004; 3:35am

shielding

Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the room". As I mentioned regaring canopies, they do the job, but shiled only the bed. I have done a lot of thinking on how to shield a room, but even if we neglect magnetic field from power lines, MW radiation is extremely hard to shiled. What do you generally suggest for propper shielding? If I wanted to live in urban areas, I would have needed attenuation of up to 1000 times, as phone masts are all over...

Drasko

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

charles-2

Feb 10, 2004; 7:21pm

Re: shielding

Hello Drasko,

there are canopies who shield 30dB, 40 Db and 50 dB.
For everyone there is a price tag attached.
However, there can be side effects, where electrosensibles can react on.
Some people feel very uncomfortable under it.
However, it can be a solution, but if the HF radiation is too heavy, it is
not sufficient.

In my earlier posting *understanding I mentioned a german company, which has
some solutions.
I prefer shielding against the walls.
Especially the bedroom, where we allow max 0,1 - 1 uW/m2 (microWatt per
square meter)
You could start by taping those *thermo blankets* against the bedroom
curtains, with the silver side outside.
Against the walls where the hf radiation is coming from, you may place this
black paint or the Diamant tissue.
In a living room, where we allow 100 uW/m2, there are transparent window
films (RDF) to glue with water against the window pane.

It is extremely hard to shield against magnetic fields, but with the
materials mentioned you can shield against radio and television radiation
also.
Phone masts are all over, but don't forget the DECT phones of the
neighbours.
In order to work properly, and being able to plan things properly, you need
a HF meter.
As I mentioned in the former posting.
Those HF Analysers are the lastest developments in metering technology.
If you want to look at more details (how they look like) youcan download
*het bitje* oktober/november 2003 from:
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/Pagina44.html
It is completely in dutch or german, but the images speak for itsself.

Now, these are my personal hints.
You may also look at the valuable hints Marc Martin mentioned before.

Although I live in the netherlands, I look at websites all over the world.
In my opinion, regarding meters and shielding materials and baubiologie
(building biology), the germans are much farther than the americans.
No pun intended.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 04:35
Subject: [eSens] shielding

> Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the room". As
I mentioned regaring canopies, they do the job, but shiled only the bed. I
have done a lot of thinking on how to shield a room, but even if we neglect
magnetic field from power lines, MW radiation is extremely hard to shiled.
What do you generally suggest for propper shielding? If I wanted to live in
urban areas, I would have needed attenuation of up to 1000 times, as phone
masts are all over...
>
> Drasko

Emil at Less EMF Inc

Feb 10, 2004; 9:41pm

Re: shielding

In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic

At 07:35 PM 2/10/2004, you wrote:
>Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the room". As
>I mentioned regaring canopies, they do the job, but shiled only the bed. I
>have done a lot of thinking on how to shield a room, but even if we
>neglect magnetic field from power lines, MW radiation is extremely hard to
>shiled. What do you generally suggest for propper shielding? If I wanted
>to live in urban areas, I would have needed attenuation of up to 1000
>times, as phone masts are all over...
>
>Drasko

Hi Drasko,

For walls, ceilings, doors etc., there is an excellent shielding paint
called CuPro-Cote (http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html). It is a water based
latex paint (easy to apply and easy to clean up) which has copper
particles. Attenuation is very good: over 75 dB from 1 MHz to 1 GHz. I
would guess that the shielding performance is still good at higher
frequencies, but it has not been formally tested above 1 GHz. You can paint
over it with normal latex paint to adjust color.

For windows, mesh type fabrics are available to make drapes (or drape
linings). The mesh fabrics allow light and air to pass. For example,
See-Thru Fabric is available in 12 foot wide by any length you want.
(http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html)

As always, RF shields should be grounded (Earthed). Controlling leakage
points is critical for high attenuation RF shielding. Small leaks, such as
around a door or light switch can reduce overall shielding in the room to
20 dB, even if the walls are covered with 80 dB material.

Emil

charles-2

Feb 10, 2004; 10:05pm

Re: shielding

Hello Emil,

I am sorry, but I disagree with you.

All shielding for low frequencies must be grounded. That is right.

But for high frequencies that is not neccessary.
Sometimes it is even impossible.
The exception is this paint, because it is electrical conductive, and
therefore it MUST be grounded.

Canopies, curtains, window pane films are never grounded.
The received radiation is transformed into heat.

If you use certain fabrics or woven stuff, which can also shield electrical
alternating fields, than these materials MUST be grounded also.

When I walk with my cap, or T-shirt or normal shirt, these are not grounded
either, and I am not charged up.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Less EMF Inc." <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 22:41
Subject: Re: [eSens] shielding

> At 07:35 PM 2/10/2004, you wrote:
> >Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the room".
As
> >I mentioned regaring canopies, they do the job, but shiled only the bed.
I
> >have done a lot of thinking on how to shield a room, but even if we
> >neglect magnetic field from power lines, MW radiation is extremely hard
to

> >shiled. What do you generally suggest for propper shielding? If I wanted
> >to live in urban areas, I would have needed attenuation of up to 1000
> >times, as phone masts are all over...
> >
> >Drasko
>
>
> Hi Drasko,
>
> For walls, ceilings, doors etc., there is an excellent shielding paint
> called CuPro-Cote (http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html). It is a water based
> latex paint (easy to apply and easy to clean up) which has copper
> particles. Attenuation is very good: over 75 dB from 1 MHz to 1 GHz. I
> would guess that the shielding performance is still good at higher
> frequencies, but it has not been formally tested above 1 GHz. You can

... [show rest of quote]

paint

> over it with normal latex paint to adjust color.
>
> For windows, mesh type fabrics are available to make drapes (or drape
> linings). The mesh fabrics allow light and air to pass. For example,
> See-Thru Fabric is available in 12 foot wide by any length you want.
> (http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html)
>
> As always, RF shields should be grounded (Earthed). Controlling leakage
> points is critical for high attenuation RF shielding. Small leaks, such as
> around a door or light switch can reduce overall shielding in the room to
> 20 dB, even if the walls are covered with 80 dB material.
>
> Emil

Anders Eriksson

Feb 11, 2004; 1:03am

Re: shielding

In reply to this post by Emil at Less EMF Inc

As far as I know RF shields do not need to be grounded (Earthed)!
Grounding has no effect on the RF shielding.

If someone insist that grounding the RF shielding is necessary, please
tell me why.

/Anders Eriksson

charles-2

Feb 11, 2004; 8:54am

Re: shielding 2

Hello Anders Eriksson,

as I wrote before:

in my opinion there are two exceptions where shielding for high frequencies
MUST be shielded:

1. where the shielding is electrical conductive, like with those paint.
2. when the shielding also may shield electrical alternating fields, or may
conduct those.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
http://www.hese-project.org
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anders Eriksson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 02:03
Subject: Re: [eSens] shielding

> As far as I know RF shields do not need to be grounded (Earthed)!
> Grounding has no effect on the RF shielding.
>
> If someone insist that grounding the RF shielding is necessary, please
> tell me why.
>
> /Anders Eriksson

Emil at Less EMF Inc

Feb 11, 2004; 2:34pm

Re: shielding

In reply to this post by charles-2

Hi Charles,

I agree with you partially.
Grounding is always required for low frequency electric field shielding.

Grounding for RF shielding is theoretically not necessary, as most RF
shields are primarily reflectors. In the real world however, we have
noticed by experience that grounding IMPROVES the shielding performance of
paints, fabrics, and other conductive shielding materials. Furthermore,
when shielded enclosures are imperfectly sealed, the radiation which gets
inside the enclosure will dissipate much faster if the shield is grounded.

Emil

At 11:05 PM 2/10/2004, you wrote:

>Hello Emil,
>
>I am sorry, but I disagree with you.
>
>All shielding for low frequencies must be grounded. That is right.
>
>But for high frequencies that is not neccessary.
>Sometimes it is even impossible.
>The exception is this paint, because it is electrical conductive, and
>therefore it MUST be grounded.
>
>Canopies, curtains, window pane films are never grounded.
>The received radiation is transformed into heat.
>
>If you use certain fabrics or woven stuff, which can also shield electrical
>alternating fields, than these materials MUST be grounded also.
>
>When I walk with my cap, or T-shirt or normal shirt, these are not grounded
>either, and I am not charged up.
>
>Greetings,
>Charles Claessens
>member Verband Baubiologie
>http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/
>http://www.hese-project.org
>checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Less EMF Inc." <[hidden email]>
>To: <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 22:41
>Subject: Re: [eSens] shielding
>
>
> > At 07:35 PM 2/10/2004, you wrote:
> > >Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the room".
>As
> > >I mentioned regaring canopies, they do the job, but shiled only the bed.
>I
> > >have done a lot of thinking on how to shield a room, but even if we
> > >neglect magnetic field from power lines, MW radiation is extremely hard
>to
> > >shiled. What do you generally suggest for propper shielding? If I wanted
> > >to live in urban areas, I would have needed attenuation of up to 1000
> > >times, as phone masts are all over...
> > >
> > >Drasko
> >
> >
> > Hi Drasko,
> >
> > For walls, ceilings, doors etc., there is an excellent shielding paint
> > called CuPro-Cote (http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html). It is a water based
> > latex paint (easy to apply and easy to clean up) which has copper
> > particles. Attenuation is very good: over 75 dB from 1 MHz to 1 GHz. I
> > would guess that the shielding performance is still good at higher
> > frequencies, but it has not been formally tested above 1 GHz. You can
>paint
> > over it with normal latex paint to adjust color.
> >
> > For windows, mesh type fabrics are available to make drapes (or drape
> > linings). The mesh fabrics allow light and air to pass. For example,
> > See-Thru Fabric is available in 12 foot wide by any length you want.
> > (http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html)
> >
> > As always, RF shields should be grounded (Earthed). Controlling leakage
> > points is critical for high attenuation RF shielding. Small leaks, such as
> > around a door or light switch can reduce overall shielding in the room to
> > 20 dB, even if the walls are covered with 80 dB material.
> >
> > Emil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

INB

Feb 12, 2004; 5:18am

Re: shielding

In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic

What about a Farday Cage?

http://www.emishieldinggaskets.com/faraday_cage%20_tent.htm

Regards,
Dillion

--- In [hidden email], "Drasko Cvijovic" <pecina@c...> wrote:
> Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the
room". As I mentioned regaring canopies,

Anders Eriksson

Feb 12, 2004; 3:17pm

Re: shielding

Hi Dillon,

I took a quick tour on the page you linked to. As far as i can find out
it looks like they know what they talks about. But since they are
professionals it probably costs. I wouldn't mind having 120dB
attenuation from EMR in my bedroom.

Regards

/Anders Eriksson

INB wrote:

> What about a Farday Cage?
>
> http://www.emishieldinggaskets.com/faraday_cage%20_tent.htm
>
> Regards,
> Dillion
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Drasko Cvijovic" <pecina@c...> wrote:
>
>>Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the
>
> room". As I mentioned regaring canopies,
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

charles-2

Feb 12, 2004; 5:18pm

Re: shielding

Did you see the price tag?
Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anders Eriksson" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 16:17
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: shielding

> Hi Dillon,
>
> I took a quick tour on the page you linked to. As far as i can find out
> it looks like they know what they talks about. But since they are
> professionals it probably costs. I wouldn't mind having 120dB
> attenuation from EMR in my bedroom.
>
> Regards
>
> /Anders Eriksson
>
> INB wrote:
> > What about a Farday Cage?
> >
> > http://www.emishieldinggaskets.com/faraday_cage%20_tent.htm
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dillion
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "Drasko Cvijovic" <pecina@c...> wrote:
> >
> >>Charles, one more question to you - you mentioned "shielding the
> >
> > room". As I mentioned regaring canopies,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

INB

Feb 12, 2004; 5:23pm

Re: shielding

In reply to this post by Anders Eriksson

Everything is 'spensive about this illnes, that and MCS.

I have MCS, ES, CFIDS, FMS.

Regards,
Dillion

--- In [hidden email], Anders Eriksson <skal.man@t...> wrote:
> Hi Dillon,
>
> I took a quick tour on the page you linked to. As far as i can find
out
> it looks like they know what they talks about. But since they are
> professionals it probably costs. I wouldn't mind having 120dB
> attenuation from EMR in my bedroom.
>
> Regards
>
> /Anders Eriksson