newbie experience with laptop

Hi there,

I'm a new member here and I wanted to get your input on my experience
with a new laptop computer.

Up until buying the laptop, I had never thought of myself as
electrically sensitive. I can operate a desktop computer and an older
laptop without obvious symptoms.  

But after working with this new laptop (with WiFi) on my lap for an
hour, I began to feel really bad. A bit of a headache, maybe dizzy,
"brain fog". I couldn't think at all. It was downright scary. So I
turned off the computer.

The next day I decided to test myself again with the computer. The
same symptoms reappeared when I worked with it on my lap. This
confirmed that my problems were with the laptop, especially in close
proximity and touching my body.

While packing up the computer to return to Dell (there goes 15% for
restocking -- oh well, lesson learned), I wanted to clean up the
desktop and delete some things I had downloaded while using the
computer. Amazingly the symptoms came back after only 5 minutes and
with the computer on a desk. I had worked with the laptop on a desk
prior to my bad experiences on my lap but hadn't noticed any negative
effects.  

So what is the source of my problem? The WiFi is the likely culprit I
know, but I have just installed a wireless card on my desktop computer
and there are no clear negative effects. Distance may be an important
variable in this condition.  

But I wonder if it is the electrical magnetic field emitted by the
laptop itself that may be to blame. Or the chemicals in the computer
for that matter (MCS)? It's a puzzle for sure.

I would very much appreciate any comments you might have.

Chris

> But I wonder if it is the electrical magnetic field emitted by the
> laptop itself that may be to blame. Or the chemicals in the computer
> for that matter (MCS)? It's a puzzle for sure.

If the laptop has the ability to turn on/off the radio transmitter,
then you could determine how much the Wi-Fi is responsible. But
laptops have all sorts of components that could be causing you
problems. The DC/AC inverter to run the florescent display, for
example. I know that I had difficulties with laptops before there
was Wi-Fi.

Also, there is definitely a variation between brands and models --
I have noted myself that some laptops don't seem to be as bad
as others. And someone else here (Cara) even had a brand
recommendation based on her own experimentation (HP?).

It could also be chemicals, although in that case I think you
would react to it even when it is turned off.

Marc

My husband and I can confirm that EMF symptoms vary between laptop
and desktop, different manufacturers (brands) and even between
models (old vs newer) of the same brand. For example, my husband
uses both an old Apple "Wall Street" Powerbook (black plastic
casing) and a newer Apple "Titanium" Powerbook (metal casing). The
Titanium triggers *much* worse ES symptoms than the Wall Street,
even without WiFi. We speculate that the metal casing may be a
factor in severity of symptoms, but we don't know that for certain.
What we *do* know for sure is that physical contact with either
laptop triggers symptoms. So, distance is absolutely a factor. Also,
experimentation with WiFi on my computers (older clamshell iBook,
newer Mac Mini) confirms that turning WiFi *off* reduces ES symptoms
significantly.

As Marc mentioned, I've compared various computer makes/models, and
if I were starting from scratch today and had only ES to consider, I
would choose an HP.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I'm a new member here and I wanted to get your input on my
experience
> with a new laptop computer.
>

Thank you Marc and Cara for your comments.

I suppose we just don't know enough to make definitive statements about things since this issue is in tis infancy. It's a bit perplexing. Worse, it's hard to explain to other people what you are feeling.  

Good to hear that different systems can produce different effects. This is what I suspect also. My desktop wireless connection appears (for now at least) to have a minimal effect, although I believe it is related to wirelesssignal strength.  

I do wonder about the WiFI vs non-WiFi dimension to this whole thing. I have never noticed a sensitivity to electronic appliances before. This is, however, my first experience with a wireless computers.

I would look into HP. What is different about their models?

Chris

Cara <[hidden email]> wrote: My husband and I can confirm that EMF symptoms vary between laptop
and desktop, different manufacturers (brands) and even between
models (old vs newer) of the same brand. For example, my husband
uses both an old Apple "Wall Street" Powerbook (black plastic
casing) and a newer Apple "Titanium" Powerbook (metal casing). The
Titanium triggers *much* worse ES symptoms than the Wall Street,
even without WiFi. We speculate that the metal casing may be a
factor in severity of symptoms, but we don't know that for certain.
What we *do* know for sure is that physical contact with either
laptop triggers symptoms. So, distance is absolutely a factor. Also,
experimentation with WiFi on my computers (older clamshell iBook,
newer Mac Mini) confirms that turning WiFi *off* reduces ES symptoms
significantly.
 
As Marc mentioned, I've compared various computer makes/models, and
if I were starting from scratch today and had only ES to consider, I
would choose an HP.
 
Cara
 
--- In [hidden email], "Christopher Kevill" <ckevill@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I'm a new member here and I wanted to get your input on my
experience
> with a new laptop computer.
>
 
 
 
         
     
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know what HP does that makes their laptops seem "quieter" EMF-wise than other
makes. I spent several afternoons at the local computer superstore doing comparisons,
using my own body as a gauge. I also used a simple device (obtained from Graham Stetzer)
that I wired to my arm and leg, that amplified the electrical current running through my
body so that I could actually hear it: more current = louder buzz. The Toshiba laptops
were consistently very buzzy, the HPs very quiet. Other makes were somewhere in the
middle. Something else that struck me while making these comparisons: Applelaptops
were also very buzzy, but the Apple desktops were significantly less so. (So--we can't
assume a manufacturer that does something right in its desktops will necessarily get the
same thing right with its laptops, or vice versa.) I believe I also observed similar
differences in different makes of LCD monitor screen.

The amplifier I used (I think Mr. Stetzer calls it an "Inner Voice") is only a tool to verify
whatever your body senses. I really believe our subjective impressions are more accurate
than most "objective" meters. Nothing beats going out there and handling the machines
before you buy.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], Christopher Kevill <ckevill@...> wrote:
 
> I do wonder about the WiFI vs non-WiFi dimension to this whole thing. I have never
noticed a sensitivity to electronic appliances before. This is, however, my first experience
with a wireless computers.
>
> I would look into HP. What is different about their models?
>
> Chris

> The amplifier I used (I think Mr. Stetzer calls it an "Inner Voice") is only a tool to verify
> whatever your body senses. I really believe our subjective impressions are more accurate
> than most "objective" meters. Nothing beats going out there and handling the machines
> before you buy.

That sounds like a useful product -- does it have a name? It is sold on a website?
Trying computers in the store can be helpful, but sometimes you need a few days of
experience with a computer before really bad symptoms appear, so I'm wondering if
this tool might be more useful for a quick assessment?

Did you get any strange looks while doing these tests in the store? :-)

Marc