low_emf: do you work for spectran?

Dear low_emf,

we are interested in proper measurements of radiation for
electrosensitivity issues and any technology that works. However
several of your posts indicate a strong association with spectran and
resemble sales spiels. Could you please indicate to this group
whether
you are employed by or have any financial interest in Aaronia, the
spectran manufacturers, or any other radiation measurement company?
This is not an advertising forum, and electrosensitives have enough
financial difficulties as it is. Of course it is interesting if your
interest is purely non profit oriented.

Thank you

Rowan C

No, i dont work for SPECTRAN, its just a very nice and handy unit. As
i stated before i work with more professional units like R&S, HP and
Anritsu too. Those units are my daylife workutilities because they
offer a lot of very nice professional features, big! screens etc..
Hard to compare. Aniway i also know all those "cheap" units too
because i am quite interested in those little gadgets: Some of my
customers use them and its allways "exiting" what they think they can
"measure" (OH BOY!).
But so far non of those cheap gadget got what i and my customers
needet thats why i am so exited on SPECTRAN ;-)

--- In [hidden email], "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...> wrote:
> Dear low_emf,
>
> we are interested in proper measurements of radiation for
> electrosensitivity issues and any technology that works. However
> several of your posts indicate a strong association with spectran
and
> resemble sales spiels. Could you please indicate to this group
> whether
> you are employed by or have any financial interest in Aaronia, the
> spectran manufacturers, or any other radiation measurement company?
> This is not an advertising forum, and electrosensitives have enough
> financial difficulties as it is. Of course it is interesting if
your
> interest is purely non profit oriented.
>
> Thank you
>
> Rowan C

Hello Rowan C,

of course he does not work for Spectran, because that is a product name, not
a company name.
He is just Thorsten Chmielus, CEO of Aaronia, who uses a lot of nicknames in
a number of forums.
He never gives his real name.

Of course he works daily with R&S, HP and Anritsu, because he has a lot of
development and adjusting on his prototype Spectrans to do.
His statement :
*Aniway i also know all those "cheap" units too
> because i am quite interested in those little gadgets: Some of my
> customers use them and its allways "exiting" what they think they can
> "measure" (OH BOY!). *
is typical for him.
He forgets, that Aaronia is still selling and advertising *those "cheap"
units*!

Btw, I have heard that the Spectran is slower than the slowest
spectrumanalyser on the market.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "low_emf" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 10:01
Subject: [eSens] Re: low_emf: do you work for spectran?

Hmmm still the same old storys, Charless ? All guys who post
"friendly" on aronia or SPECTRAN are from Aaronia ? If you say so...
YOU must know it (hahaha).
Aniway: NO im not from SPECTRAN and no im not from aaronia (have other
things to do).

About your more produktive sentence:
SPECTRAN isnt slow at all. Its even very fast (e.g. about 0,5 seconds
for a GSM900-sweep since BETA22). Surely my FSH6 is faster (about 0,3
seconds on GSM900) so what ? The FSH6 is about 16000 bugs so what are
you comparing ??? Strange arguments.

I must say that I enjoy Low Emf's passionate postings, even if it was just a
piece of advertising...

But he does make me really curious, it is not so usual that somebody hides
his identity at e-lists. There are not many people worldwide who have
numerous expencive spectrum analizers handy...

Drasko

Thanks, but propably i should REALY ask aaronia on adds. Propably i
would get some money for my "standups" at this group or at least a
free SPECTRAN ;-)

Aniway anibody can ask me other questions too on RF...

--- In [hidden email], "Drasko Cvijovic" <pecina@c...> wrote:
>
> I must say that I enjoy Low Emf's passionate postings, even if it
was just a
> piece of advertising...
>
> But he does make me really curious, it is not so usual that somebody
hides
> his identity at e-lists. There are not many people worldwide who have
> numerous expencive spectrum analizers handy...
>
> Drasko

Hello Drasko,

only Thorsten Chmielus does have them.
Plus his Spectrans.

How many people in the world with a good working spectrum analyser and other
equipment would care to buy a Spectran prototype?

The only person in the whole world who has some positive news about the
Spectrans is our low_emf.
Does that ring a bell?

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 19:05
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: low_emf: do you work for spectran?


>
> I must say that I enjoy Low Emf's passionate postings, even if it was just
a
> piece of advertising...
>
> But he does make me really curious, it is not so usual that somebody hides
> his identity at e-lists. There are not many people worldwide who have
> numerous expencive spectrum analizers handy...
>
> Drasko
>

You are wrong again, Charless: I have 2! SPECTRANS. A HF-2025E and a
HF-6080 (GRIN).

By the way i dint see anyboda who HAS a SPECTRAN writing something
negative about that units in this group or did i miss something ?





--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
> Hello Drasko,
>
> only Thorsten Chmielus does have them.
> Plus his Spectrans.
>
> How many people in the world with a good working spectrum analyser
and other was just
> a
> > piece of advertising...
> >
> > But he does make me really curious, it is not so usual that
somebody hides
> > his identity at e-lists. There are not many people worldwide who have
> > numerous expencive spectrum analizers handy...
> >
> > Drasko
> >

But nobody elese wrote anything about it at all.

You are the only one.
That does not surprise me.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "low_emf" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 19:54
Subject: [eSens] Wrong, i have 2! SPECTRANs

Now, you only do have only 2 Spectrans?

You do not have the NF 5020 ?
Which Aaronia claims it can measure from 1 Hz to 1 MHz.
If you want to measure the Schumann frequencies, how do you do that.
Normally one needs enormous big measure probes for that.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "low_emf" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 19:54
Subject: [eSens] Wrong, i have 2! SPECTRANs

Dear Thorsten (low_emf, I hope I have your name)

it is good to see good product R&D being done to assist
electrosensitives, and you do seem to be making some progress there
if
you do work for Aaronia as Charles has said. The Aaronia web site
does
look good, and enthusiasm can be good for development. I had
personally and am still considering getting a spectran, while also
looking at other meters. Possibly if manufacturers want to post to
this list they should declare their financial association in any
posts
concerning their products with a byline such as 'USERNAME is funded
by
PRODUCT COMPANY and is interested in RF issues' at the bottom.
Hopefully enough on that subject for now.

There is some published and written data on radiation levels in the
vicinity of DECT base stations for home phones, saying that within
about 2 meters levels are quite high, and also in the room of the
station levels are quite high. I also wonder about such measurements
around WLANs. It is being said by several sources that these levels
are more significant than the effects of mobile phone base stations.
I
would be very interested to know if this is true. Some Germans are
petitioning for a ban on all DECT phones that transmit continually at
100 Hz for 100m when not in use. If these measurements are true it
would seem to be a priority to get DECT phones and WLANS limited to
10m + repeater units or banned. I am currently half way through
writing an article on it all. Maybe if groups could use your meters
in
suburbs in different parts of world, and shopping centres and offices
could be continually surveyed by private or government groups
producing nice looking coloured graphs. This would help explain
things
to the public. User friendly gear assists with this.

Happy developing

Rowsteroz

(Rowan Campbell)

--- In [hidden email], "low_emf" <low_emf@y...> wrote: somebody
> hides
> > his identity at e-lists. There are not many people worldwide who
have
> > numerous expencive spectrum analizers handy...
> >
> > Drasko

> Possibly if manufacturers want to post to this list they should
> declare their financial association in any posts concerning their
> products with a byline such as 'USERNAME is funded by
> PRODUCT COMPANY and is interested in RF issues' at the bottom.
> Hopefully enough on that subject for now.

Yeah its enough now bacause im NOT from Aaronia and my name is not
torsten.

> There is some published and written data on radiation levels in the
> vicinity of DECT base stations for home phones

Concerning the DECTs there seem to be a lot of wrong informations
based on bad measurementequipment:
First of all its NOT true that they are emitting on full power all the
time. Only the basestation is emitting on VERY LOW power in standby.
If you make a call the basesation starts with much higher power and
the mobily is aktiv too. If you start speaking the mobile and
basestation goes to maximum power. So you have 3 totaly different
powerlevels on DECT which nobody seems to know.
Aniway it would be no problem to even shut of the standby radiation
with a little bit of hardware. So why is it not on the market ? Simply
becasue most people dont demand it its as simple as that. Industry
only builds what customers want ;-)

That's right.
Your name is not *Torsten* but *Thorsten*.

Anyway, such a simple bit of hardware to shut off the power of a DECT phone,
I have here lying on my desk.

However, it is quite difficult.
It shuts off the power after 1 minute.
When an incoming call is detected, it gives the power again, and you may
answer the call.
After 1 minute, the power is again shut-off.
The problem is, there is no communication then between the phone and the
base station.
So, if you want to place a call yourself, you have to reach the base station
and press a button, in order to have power on the base station.
That is the drawback.

It is certainly not a simple bit of hardware.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Charles Claessens
lid Verband Baubiologie
Stichting Milieuziektes
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
gekontroleerd door Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "low_emf" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 09:49
Subject: [eSens] Re: low_emf: do you work for spectran, radiation
measurements.

No comment on the "name thing" BUT:
I didnt say that the hardware YOU mentioned is simple.
I ment it WOULD be simple to build directly from the manufacturer.
Then you dont have to run to the basestaion to make a call.

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
> That's right.
> Your name is not *Torsten* but *Thorsten*.
>
> Anyway, such a simple bit of hardware to shut off the power of a
DECT phone,
> I have here lying on my desk.
>
> However, it is quite difficult.

Personally I'm sure I don't work for aaronia. But their products look
interesting.

I mean, the cheapest price to buy an HF meter is 150 euros. This is
the most affordable one ever. For basic people knowing nothing about
what's going on on their place. The next cheapest one is the one with
the green antenna, and it is already two to three times more expensive,
although of course it looks better, with a digital display.

I'd say also that people heavily stoned by a phone mast in the vicinity
(like myself) don't have much energy to buy something expensive and
difficult to use, as a first move.

jean.


--- In [hidden email], "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...> wrote:

Shortly, new RF meters or detectors will arrive on the market.
And easy to use.
For prices well under 100 Euro.

I'll keep you informed.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "tdx244" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:41
Subject: [eSens] Re: low_emf: do you work for spectran?

What characteristics would they have? Looks too good to be true... There is
(almost) even not a good voltmeter for that price?! I would be looking
forward to
testing them!

Drasko



----- Original Message -----
From: "charles" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: [eSens] RF meters

Hello Drasko,

as I wrote: I'll keep you informed.
I am waiting myself at the moment.
Personally I own quite a number of meters, and are always looking for the
price/quality/technical need of them.


On the other hand, the information I receive from several sources regarding
the Spectrans, does not look good.
There seems to be a lot not in order, certainly not what the company
promises.
Aside their promises, it looks as if the Spectrans are NOT a fast spectrum
analyser but a radio scanner, and then a slow one.
It cannot detect a DECT phone at 1 meter distance properly.
Without the antenna, it receives a lot of signals, mostly selfmade
background noise, because of a fault in the design.

It is certainly not an equipment for amateurs. It is rather complicated to
handle.
If you want to adjust something, (and you have to adjust a lot of things)
and press a button, the meter goes to its default.
And you have to adjust all over again.
It is certainly not *point and read*. No way.
Even technicians have their hands full in order to measure *something*.
And that *something* is very questionable.

And the scanning is far too slow.
Too slow for obtaining good measurements.
It is even impossible to obtain good results of that.
And that was with the updates 19 as well as 21.

Perhaps, one day it will function better, but now it is in a very early
development phase, and not qualified for sales.
It is wrong to boast about it, because in my opinion, it is a waste of money
at the moment.

Your friend Thorsten will argue that it is not true, but these findings are
based upon information from several sources.
from people who have bought the Spectran 2025E end the 6080.

Like I said before: *Let us wait and see*.
It is still not November 1st 2005.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus







----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 22:54
Subject: Re: [eSens] RF meters


>
> What characteristics would they have? Looks too good to be true... There
is expensive,
> > > although of course it looks better, with a digital display.
> > >
> > > I'd say also that people heavily stoned by a phone mast in the
vicinity

P.S. about the FAST SPECTRANS: If you please have a look on the
website of aaronia:
http://www.elektrosmog.de/SPECTRAN-Betriebssoftware.htm
you would see that the FAST spectrans (or better the softwareupdates)
are beginning with update BETA22. So if you are telling in this group
about quite old BETA19 or BETA21 you have realy old version and you
KNOW that because i think you can read some german, dont you ?

About scanspeed of spectrumanalysers:
You can CHANGE that speed on ALL analysers, also on SPECTRAN.
Why ? Because the scanspeed is quite important to get perfect results.
Some times its fine to have a (adjustable) SLOW scan to get BETTER
RESULTS so its JUST THE OTHER WAY

About selfmade backgrund noise:
This is normal on ALL spectrumanalysers too: The noislevel depends on
bandwith! You get very low background nois at low bandwith and get
higher backgrundnois at higher bandwiths. Just physics. Aniway even on
the HIGHEST bandwith even SPECTRAN (as my FSH6 too!) has about -80dBm
to -90dBm on backgroundnoise and that is MUCH better then even the
best oldfashioned broadbandmeters can do. So whats the problem ?

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
> Hello Drasko,
>
> On the other hand, the information I receive from several sources
regarding
> the Spectrans, does not look good.

Hi all,

I should note that almost every post you are readinfg from "low_emf"
has been edited by me to some extent. Basically, what I am removing
are the insults aimed at Charles and the complaints aimed at the
list moderator (me). The insults towards Charles is what got
"low_emf" moderated in the first place, as I have no desire for
this list to be a place where people insult and attack each other
for sharing their opinion. The complaints aimed at me is that
I have taken an "Anti-Aaronia" stance by not editing Charles'
messages as well.

The reason I am not editing Charles' messages is because from
viewpoint, Charles is not personally attacking anyone, while
"low_emf" is. It's that simple.

As for me being Anti-Aaronia, well, all I can say on this subject
is that I don't believe that EMF meters are all that useful *in
general* for helping people with electrical hypersensitivity.
Usually, someone will buy an EMF meter and quickly find that
the readings do not correspond with their symptoms.

Also, the amount of messages spent devoted to discussing a meter
which is not even available to the general public seems a bit
absurd to me. After all, this list is supposed to be about
people sharing their experiences about what helps them with
their ES symptoms. As far as I can tell, this particular
meter has helped NOBODY with their ES symptoms, and as such
is not a particularly useful topic here.

Marc