electrical radiation vs. outgassed chemicals

which one is worse from computers?

How do we know that symptoms we think are caused by electrical
radiation aren't caused by outgassed chemicals?

For me personally I think outgassed chemicals are what makes me feel
so bad.

did you guys see my enclosures for blocking both outgassed chemicals
and electrical radiation? http://www.rawair.net/photos.html

> How do we know that symptoms we think are caused by electrical
> radiation aren't caused by outgassed chemicals?

Yes, before I concluded I had electrical sensitivity, I also
thought the problem might be outgassing from my computer
monitor. However, then I noticed that I was having problems
with all sorts of things that were inconsistent with outgassing.
Like being near powerlines - outdoors. Or being near cell
towers. Or standing next to light switches. Talking on
an (old) telephone, being in grocery stores, airports,
etc.

But I won't deny that *you* may be reacting to chemical
offgassing...

Marc

Hmmm, well I'm actually not sure. I know that when I was painting my whole house a few months ago, I was standing on top of my counter, and had my laptop placed there. As I was moving around on the counter painting, my foot at one point was touching the big, black battery that the laptop was plugged in to.? Within a few seconds, my foot started aching and throbbing very painfully, and then it spread to my whole body, then the tiredness and nauseousness came, ?so I would have to say for now at least, the electrical. But I admit I don't know enough about outgassed chemicals to say they are equally bad, or worse. I did check out your site, yes.
Amy


-----Original Message-----
From: rawfooddan <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:41 pm
Subject: [eSens] electrical radiation vs. outgassed chemicals






which one is worse from computers?

How do we know that symptoms we think are caused by electrical
radiation aren't caused by outgassed chemicals?

For me personally I think outgassed chemicals are what makes me feel
so bad.

did you guys see my enclosures for blocking both outgassed chemicals
and electrical radiation? http://www.rawair.net/photos.html






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/12/2008 6:49:19 A.M. GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

How do we know that symptoms we think are caused by electrical
radiation aren't caused by outgassed chemicals?

For me personally I think outgassed chemicals are what makes me feel
so bad.



sitting outside behind the wall of my neighbours LCD tv or Telephone masts
from a distance, mobile phones at a distance, its not chemicals there,






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My symptoms depend on how hard the computer is working, and are relieved
if it is sleeping or better, off. Etc. etc. BUT, I've been exposed to the
outgassing
for a long time. The Invisible Disease book by Gunni Nordstrom talks a lot
about outgassing. I doubt those chemicals are doing any good and may
actually cause the damage that makes us sensitive. There is some connection
between EHS and MCS, and I don't think anyone really understands why.

Bill

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:41 PM, rawfooddan <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clearly electrical radiation is a problem, and I didn't mean to say
its not. I know its a problem, but I should say, my computer
sensitivity is not one or the other, Its a combination of the two.

Bill, I think you're on to something there in wondering if outgassed
chemicals cause the damage which makes one sensitive to electrical
radiation. That makes a lot of sense to me and would correspond to my
feelings.  

I know that it would be hard for most people to make a connection
between the two because because unless you make a deliberate effort to
eliminate outgassing products from your life, you're going to be
breathing those chemicals all the time and might never experience
outgas free living.

But the thing with electronics is that they get hot, and when stuff
gets hot they outgas a lot more, and I know enclosing my computer,
monitor and modem really works for me. but the enclosures also are
blocking the electric field, so maybe thats another reason they work
for me.  

maybe I am sensitive to both the electric field and outgassed chemicals.






--- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote:
>
> My symptoms depend on how hard the computer is working, and are relieved
> if it is sleeping or better, off. Etc. etc. BUT, I've been exposed
to the
> outgassing
> for a long time. The Invisible Disease book by Gunni Nordstrom
talks a lot
> about outgassing. I doubt those chemicals are doing any good and may
> actually cause the damage that makes us sensitive. There is some
connection

> maybe I am sensitive to both the electric field and outgassed chemicals.

Probably that would be true for many of us. I certainly have had trouble
with the smell coming from offgassing -- I had to get rid of a space heater
because it never seemed to offgas enough for me, and also I had to stop
a magazine subscription because I could not stand the smell of the ink
used! (although that was true for only one obscure magazine which must
have used an unusual ink/printing process)

But certainly, there are things which are a problematic purely from
an EMF standpoint.

Marc

(From rawfooddan)

I know that it would be hard for most people to make a connection between the two


This is so true. I know for me, it only took, oh, about 11 years (!!) to realize the connection to electronics, fluorescent light sensitivity and fibro/fatigue. Gee, that's not too long is it? lol

Amy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/12/2008 8:13:01 P.M. GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

Bill, I think you're on to something there in wondering if outgassed
chemicals cause the damage which makes one sensitive to electrical
radiation. That makes a lot of sense to me and would correspond to my
feelings.



I many respects its a no brainer with new equipment at close quarters or
held in houses that are poorly ventilated. These chemicals in themselves will
be processed by the body in similar ways to the EMR, so its a double whammy,
also the offending apparatus, say a computer is hitting you with both
especially when its new, in terms of the chems, so a cellular and phychocellular
assosiation will be recorded in the immune system and thus nervous system a very
difficult coding to break. I think along similar lines that is why some
people get sun sensitive these days, if you are bathed in mobile phone waves and
obviuosly sun waves (that are ubiquitous and natural) that sit in the EMF
spectrum and your body takes offence to the EMR, it may tag the sunlight as an
allergen as well in other words put them mistakingly in the same basket, what
a nasty anomaly, but I see the EMR as the main instigator here where
chemicals dance to its chaotic tune.

PUK - feeling a bit ill now time to see the real world....






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think my case may shed some insight. I was normal from a health
perspective at least :-), until I was exposed to diazinon a, now
banned (residentially), nasty organophosphate pesticide. I then began
a long nightmarish slide into severe chemical sensitivity. I also
figured out after about 6 months after the exposure that I was
electrically sensitive as well. So literally 1 day I was normal and
the next I was not.

I worked in the computer industry for 15 years. Lot's of computer
rooms. So I think I would have noticed any prior ES.

I guess I'm just special.... (lot's of sarcasm)

thanks, Alan

--- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote:

Me too. I can't pinpoint it to one thing though, since the three happened at about the same time. First ever flu shot, first time starting to use a computer, and first time ever using Diazinon right outside the house a LOT for an ongoing infestation of pincher bugs. If I only knew then what I know now.....
Amy


-----Original Message-----
From: abailey63 <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 2:34 am
Subject: [eSens] Re: electrical radiation vs. outgassed chemicals






I think my case may shed some insight. I was normal from a health
perspective at least :-), until I was exposed to diazinon a, now
banned (residentially), nasty organophosphate pesticide. I then began
a long nightmarish slide into severe chemical sensitivity. I also
figured out after about 6 months after the exposure that I was
electrically sensitive as well. So literally 1 day I was normal and
the next I was not.

I worked in the computer industry for 15 years. Lot's of computer
rooms. So I think I would have noticed any prior ES.

I guess I'm just special.... (lot's of sarcasm)

thanks, Alan

--- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote:





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess you can't definitively pinpoint it. And it could have been all
three combined just pushed you over the edge. But I would ask myself
this question. Which one of these three was specifically designed to
kill by disrupting and damaging the central nervous system and has
been banned? :-) My guess is (but you'll never know) that the other 2
by themselves may not have caused it.

Thanks, Alan

--- In [hidden email], javamdnss@... wrote:
>
> Me too. I can't pinpoint it to one thing though, since the three
happened at about the same time. First ever flu shot, first time
starting to use a computer, and first time ever using Diazinon right
outside the house a LOT for an ongoing infestation of pincher bugs. If
I only knew then what I know now.....

In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:52:29 P.M. GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I think my case may shed some insight. I was normal from a health
> perspective at least :-), until I was exposed to diazinon a, now
> banned (residentially) banned (residentially)<WBR>, nasty organophosp
> a long nightmarish slide into severe chemical sensitivity. I also
> figured out after about 6 months after the exposure that I was
> electrically sensitive as well. So literally 1 day I was normal and
> the next I was not.



PUK - Funny you should say that but I got dosed out on Sodium Bendiocarb
?used to kill fleas and wasps in a house I I surveyed many moons ago and I got
sick, I was also assaulted got a broken cheek bone, had an operation to repair
it had problems thereafter
PUK






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, and I had no idea about that. I thought since it was being sold in the U.S. it must be safe. HA! Boy I've come a long way since those days.
I was livid when I found out all about diazinon, believe me.
Amy


-----Original Message-----
From: abailey63 <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 6:52 pm
Subject: [eSens] Re: electrical radiation vs. outgassed chemicals






I guess you can't definitively pinpoint it. And it could have been all
three combined just pushed you over the edge. But I would ask myself
this question. Which one of these three was specifically designed to
kill by disrupting and damaging the central nervous system and has
been banned? :-) My guess is (but you'll never know) that the other 2
by themselves may not have caused it.

Thanks, Alan

--- In [hidden email], javamdnss@... wrote:
>
> Me too. I can't pinpoint it to one thing though, since the three
happened at about the same time. First ever flu shot, first time
starting to use a computer, and first time ever using Diazinon right
outside the house a LOT for an ongoing infestation of pincher bugs. If
I only knew then what I know now.....





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks. I'm trying to find my AM/FM walkman which is packed up in a
box somewhere.

Thanks, Alan
--- In [hidden email], "abailey63" <abailey63@...> wrote: to my

Notice of plagiarism by:
outgasreport
AKA rawair & rawfooddan
AKA healthytech AND MORE

If you Google for:
"computer monitor pain dizziness numb hands"

The plagiarism (by outgasreport) of my monitorpain site
speaks for itself.

I'd contacted the guy, and he says he removed the copied text, but
there's still some copied phrases & I don't know what else he's up to.

I do know that for MANY OF US, the MAIN issue is:

LIGHT (light **is** Electromagnetic Radiation)
also COLOR "allergy" (ask some good naturopaths - they'll confirm it

Also look up the book on NAET by Nambudripad which explains that people
can have allergies to all sorts of stuff - even wetness or dryness!

Probably, when one is exposed WITHOUT LETUP to bright lights from
computer or when working at Walmart, or whatever, our bodies rebel. The
fighter cells within us seem to retain a "memory" of what irritated our
eyes (and/or other body parts) and they then pull out all
their "forces" when triggered by the same external stimulus at future
dates.

If you read the book on NAET by Nambudripad, or Cross Currents by
Becker & other such books, you'll see how very sensitive the body's
nervous system is to nuances.

That's why it's SO frustrating to me when people such as rawfooddan AKA
rawair AKA outgasreport AKA [other-names] set out to mislead a gullible
public by focussing on ONLY the issue of chemicals to the exclusion of
other issues.

Minni

P.S. To anyone interested, despite that Armageddon may soon be
approaching given the sorry state of the country, I composed an acronym
for what I believe are FIVE TOP tecniques (externally) for health:

VOIPS = Vibes Oxygen Infrared Paleotherapy Saltbaths

VIBRATIONS - such as bed vibrator, bounceback chair, vibrating plates

OXYGENATION - via bounceback chair, or sea air or whatever

INFRARED - (the sun or sunlamp may be more natural) to activate the
body to release toxins IN CONJUNCTION WITH paleo & saltbath therapy to
work their pulling-out effects.

PALEOTHERAPY - Mud/Bentonite therapy (dipping into or smearing mud/clay
on toxic parts of body) IN CONJUNCTION WITH Infrared or SunLamp or Sun.
For example at Dead Sea, or Ciochocinek,Poland, or Glen Ivy Spa. Hey,
maybe even the Texas Sinkholes which pulled in oil rigs & which mimic
the sinkholes at therapeutic areas of Dead Sea, in that they have
POWERFUL PULLING effects. I know, because I was there once & FELT it,
so therefore I VOUCH for it.

SALT-BATHS - in conjunction with Infrared or Sun. This should
**precede** paleotherapy in a:
15/15 min. sequence of saltbath-15-min. => paleo-15-min.
Best Value: See Saltworks fineground 5-pound Bokek sea-salt

Minni
(a.k.a. monitorp of monitorpain site


--- In [hidden email], "rawfooddan" <healthytech@...> wrote:

> I do know that for MANY OF US, the MAIN issue is:
>
> LIGHT (light **is** Electromagnetic Radiation)
> also COLOR "allergy" (ask some good naturopaths

Many? Somehow I doubt it. I can recall reacting
to a lot of things which have no light/color component...
a wall outlet, a power cord, the back of a computer
monitor, a telephone, street power lines, etc.

There certainly is such a thing as "light sensitivity"
which can be caused by depleted adrenals, but this
generally manifests itself by needing to wear
sunglasses outdoors.

Marc

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
Let me put it this way:

MANY of us are exposed to lights due to alot of computer use (or due
to working in stores such as Walmart & BestBuy which impose bright
lites and monitors everywhere.

Of course - if many of us would be exposed round the clock to close
proximity to radio frequencies from our radios (which happened to me
as well) or close proximity to our microwaves (which did not happen
to me because I had the good sense to keep away from same) or to our
cellphones (which did not happen to me because I never owned one
thankfully)...
then our main issues might more likely be whichever culprit we were
MOST exposed to.

That's how I should have phrased it.

Really? How hard the computer is working? I notice I feel much worse
when the computer reads 'waiting for (a website)'. I thought I was
crazy.

Carol

--- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote:
>
> My symptoms depend on how hard the computer is working, and are
relieved
> if it is sleeping or better, off. Etc. etc. BUT, I've been
exposed to the
> outgassing
> for a long time. The Invisible Disease book by Gunni Nordstrom
talks a lot
> about outgassing. I doubt those chemicals are doing any good and
may
> actually cause the damage that makes us sensitive. There is some
connection
> between EHS and MCS, and I don't think anyone really understands
why. feel
> > so bad.
> >
> > did you guys see my enclosures for blocking both outgassed
chemicals
> > and electrical radiation? http://www.rawair.net/photos.html
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> Really? How hard the computer is working? I notice I feel much worse
> when the computer reads 'waiting for (a website)'. I thought I was
> crazy.

I certainly can tell the difference between working on a computer
when it is in the process of downloading a large file vs. using
a computer with no network activity. I don't know if this is
my reaction to the DSL modem, the phone line, or the computer,
but I do know that turning on my Quantum Home counteracts
whatever is causing the problem.

Marc