YShild Carbon/Graphite Paint

Hi, Ian,
   
They were not sure. The pesticide in question is tralomethrin and they told me very little is known about this pesticide, as far as what happens inside a home where this was used. The studies show only that this pesticidebreaks down in about a year OUT DOORS. But the guy I talked to told me this could translate to many years indoors, where there is no rain, wind, cold, and perhaps few microbes to work on it. He said there is no way of knowing but 6 to 10 years is not out of the question. I can attest that I am still reacting 16 months later. There were no studies done inside using ozone and he could only say it might work or not. He said it could even make it worse (tho that is not usually the case).
   
Since tralomethrin is the new pesticide of choice in motels, hotels, trains, boats, and planes you'd think that someone would have done better homework! Ah well..... It is also used extensively on veggies. I am highly allergic. No travelling for me and I now wince at broccoli.
   
I still haven't ruled out ozone, Ian. But I have been putting it off because they told me 'I' should not be present when it is done due to my past blood brain barrier issues. My husband has been having serious health problems, too (and I think the pesticide has affected him and he just doesn't feel it physically the same as me.).  
   
Anyway, I would just like us both out of here. He has to have surgery in2 weeks and I was hoping he could recover in a new place. Not much movingto do--it comes fully equipped with furniture! (estate sale) I would be cleaning it top to bottom, tho. This house is affordable to try without selling our current house. If we tried it and it didn't work, we could probably resell and maybe even make money, depending on the small fixups we'd be doing. (I wouldn't plant 15 to 20ft trees right away, but would shield the windows, etc, inside first.) I also could ozone our current house intothe next century while we were trying that house out. ;) If it didn't make things worse, we could always return.
   
Let me know how Sue likes the ozone machine.
My best to Sue and thanks, Ian,
Diane

Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Interesting that the pesticide people were sceptical about ozone - had they
actually tried it or were they not sure?

If material is deeply impregnated with something awkward, ozone might be the
only thing that has a chance of working. Sue's car was valeted last year
and the guy used some perfumed shampoo by mistake, although we'd
specifically told him not to. We tried all sorts of things to remove the
smell - steam cleaning, bicarbonate of soda - which reduced it but did not
remove the residual smell impregnated into the fabric. Then we tried an
ozone generator lent by a friend, and it removed the smell completely in two
12 hour bursts. Sue has used the car ever since with no ill effects.

The manufacturers claim it is widely used in nursing homes and hotels to
break down smells from spillages, incontinence etc. which sounds promising.
The principle is that the ozone, which is highly reactive and "oxidising",
breaks down large organic molecules (like pesticide) into carbon dioxide and
water. Because it is a gas, it penetrates deeply into fabrics whereas steam
cleaning etc just affects the surface. This is scientifically sound, the
question is how fast does it work on any given molecule; minutes, hours,
days, weeks or months? Also, other things in the room could be affected
(e.g. colours could fade, plastics could begin to break down), though
hopefully the effect will be small for a short exposure.

We have just bought an ozone generator as a last attempt to solve the
problem of odour from our new carpet. This is a wool carpet and the residual
smell (which irritates Sue's lungs) is probably either a pesticide or the
dark green dye, or both. This generator cost just under £ 200 sterling
(about $ 300 US). We will try it out and report back to the group on
whether it is successful on this, but will not have any results for a couple
of weeks as Sue is away at the moment.

Incidentally we did try an air cleaner (air filter) on this and, although it
improved matters, it didn't solve them. It mopped up odours that had
already offgassed but didn't do anything to stop future offgassing. As far
as I kow you are right - they produce little or no ozone (even the ones
which generate negative ions), so are not a substitute for a true ozone
generator.

Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie
Sent: 23 June 2007 02:13
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] I need some input and suggestions

Hi Andrew,

Marc suggested trying ozone about 8 months ago. I asked the pesticide
hotline people and they did not think it would work. I tried air cleaners
(with ozone and without) and they tend to make the problem worse, not
better. But I do not think that qualifies as an ozone generator. An ozone
generator is still something I have considered, but I am not sure which one
is best to buy. (And they are pricey.) I was told to rent one from a local
hazmat team, but area fire departments seem not to have a clue what I am
talking about.

I did not try UV lights, tho. That is a thought and I will try that! Thanks!
Nobody has mentioned that and that is an easy try.

Thanks again, Andrew,
Diane

Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@nc. <mailto:amcafeerr%40nc.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:
I wonder if an Ozone generator will help break down the pesticides.
There are air cleaners and UV lights that might help too.
andrew

On Jun 22, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Evie wrote:

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



         

       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/25/2007 6:07:00 PM GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

There doesn't seem to be alot of hard fact out there. But I appreciate all
the sharing of experiences of the people here. Still confusing. lol But...
As a longstanding ES sufferer I can say with some certainty that just when
you thought you were safe the good old artificial aspect of the EM spectrum is
bound to throw another obstacle in your way. Everyone is learning new stuff
day by day on this subject, so all you can do is deal with what you know and
can rationally predict and mix this with a little ce la vie, but not to much.

I have noticed that galv iron security fencing near telephone masts really
gives off some bad vibes, I think that its readily accepted that metal
re-radiates, and takes on elec charge in high esmog areas, so I would tend to steer
clear of large areas of metal in/around the home otherwise earth or paint
some absorbant paint on the surface and so on, lots of hard facts on this one.
But as you suspect, its not all cut and dry, as we are all different. I
tried to sheild my mouse and cord but made the thing worse rather than better.
As with so many electrical appliances you never know how the thing will effect
you until you have had it for a while.. When it comes to a house purchase,
dont rush in, you might be better off renting in the area first if at all
possible but obviously do your homework as if you were to purchase. If you are
mild/intermittant ES, I would be very wary of moving into what is potentially
a high esmog area ie tel masts, neighbours who love thier technology, offices
and shops too close and so on, the way things are going these places are
only going to get worse. I have a modicom of health by reasonable avoidance of
the latter, but knowing how this can change if I accumulate to much esmog
damage I would not take the chance of moving toward the smog, but rather away
from it. Of course you cant predict to readily where/when a Tel mast will be
errected hence my opening line.

Still you dont sound like the sort who is complacant, I still think there
are many Hard facts out there have you tried Electrosensitivity.org.uk and all
the links etc..

I am a little muzzed right now but trying to help and make sense

Paul UK






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Diane for the info about the possible adverse effect of ozone on the
blood-brain barrier. I hadn't heard about this; do you have a source or
guidelines? It's significant because the blood-brain barrier is definitely
implicated for Sue so I will have to be very careful! Fortunately Sue is
away at the moment so any ozone left over will have had time to dissipate by
the time she returns.
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie
Sent: 25 June 2007 18:41
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Ozone generators (was: I need some input and
suggestions)



Hi, Ian,

They were not sure. The pesticide in question is tralomethrin and they told
me very little is known about this pesticide, as far as what happens inside
a home where this was used. The studies show only that this pesticide breaks
down in about a year OUT DOORS. But the guy I talked to told me this could
translate to many years indoors, where there is no rain, wind, cold, and
perhaps few microbes to work on it. He said there is no way of knowing but 6
to 10 years is not out of the question. I can attest that I am still
reacting 16 months later. There were no studies done inside using ozone and
he could only say it might work or not. He said it could even make it worse
(tho that is not usually the case).

Since tralomethrin is the new pesticide of choice in motels, hotels, trains,
boats, and planes you'd think that someone would have done better homework!
Ah well..... It is also used extensively on veggies. I am highly allergic.
No travelling for me and I now wince at broccoli.

I still haven't ruled out ozone, Ian. But I have been putting it off because
they told me 'I' should not be present when it is done due to my past blood
brain barrier issues. My husband has been having serious health problems,
too (and I think the pesticide has affected him and he just doesn't feel it
physically the same as me.).

Anyway, I would just like us both out of here. He has to have surgery in 2
weeks and I was hoping he could recover in a new place. Not much moving to
do--it comes fully equipped with furniture! (estate sale) I would be
cleaning it top to bottom, tho. This house is affordable to try without
selling our current house. If we tried it and it didn't work, we could
probably resell and maybe even make money, depending on the small fixups
we'd be doing. (I wouldn't plant 15 to 20ft trees right away, but would
shield the windows, etc, inside first.) I also could ozone our current house
into the next century while we were trying that house out. ;) If it didn't
make things worse, we could always return.

Let me know how Sue likes the ozone machine.
My best to Sue and thanks, Ian,
Diane

Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net>
ukgateway.net> wrote:
Interesting that the pesticide people were sceptical about ozone - had they
actually tried it or were they not sure?

If material is deeply impregnated with something awkward, ozone might be the
only thing that has a chance of working. Sue's car was valeted last year
and the guy used some perfumed shampoo by mistake, although we'd
specifically told him not to. We tried all sorts of things to remove the
smell - steam cleaning, bicarbonate of soda - which reduced it but did not
remove the residual smell impregnated into the fabric. Then we tried an
ozone generator lent by a friend, and it removed the smell completely in two
12 hour bursts. Sue has used the car ever since with no ill effects.

The manufacturers claim it is widely used in nursing homes and hotels to
break down smells from spillages, incontinence etc. which sounds promising.
The principle is that the ozone, which is highly reactive and "oxidising",
breaks down large organic molecules (like pesticide) into carbon dioxide and
water. Because it is a gas, it penetrates deeply into fabrics whereas steam
cleaning etc just affects the surface. This is scientifically sound, the
question is how fast does it work on any given molecule; minutes, hours,
days, weeks or months? Also, other things in the room could be affected
(e.g. colours could fade, plastics could begin to break down), though
hopefully the effect will be small for a short exposure.

We have just bought an ozone generator as a last attempt to solve the
problem of odour from our new carpet. This is a wool carpet and the residual
smell (which irritates Sue's lungs) is probably either a pesticide or the
dark green dye, or both. This generator cost just under £ 200 sterling
(about $ 300 US). We will try it out and report back to the group on
whether it is successful on this, but will not have any results for a couple
of weeks as Sue is away at the moment.

Incidentally we did try an air cleaner (air filter) on this and, although it
improved matters, it didn't solve them. It mopped up odours that had
already offgassed but didn't do anything to stop future offgassing. As far
as I kow you are right - they produce little or no ozone (even the ones
which generate negative ions), so are not a substitute for a true ozone
generator.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of Evie
Sent: 23 June 2007 02:13
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [eSens] I need some input and suggestions

Hi Andrew,

Marc suggested trying ozone about 8 months ago. I asked the pesticide
hotline people and they did not think it would work. I tried air cleaners
(with ozone and without) and they tend to make the problem worse, not
better. But I do not think that qualifies as an ozone generator. An ozone
generator is still something I have considered, but I am not sure which one
is best to buy. (And they are pricey.) I was told to rent one from a local
hazmat team, but area fire departments seem not to have a clue what I am
talking about.

I did not try UV lights, tho. That is a thought and I will try that! Thanks!
Nobody has mentioned that and that is an easy try.

Thanks again, Andrew,
Diane

Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@nc. <mailto:amcafeerr%40nc.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:
I wonder if an Ozone generator will help break down the pesticides.
There are air cleaners and UV lights that might help too.
andrew

On Jun 22, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Evie wrote:

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Basically, trees, lakes and anything with water in are good absorbers of
microwaves (and turn them into a small amount of thermal heat). But a
proportion of waves can "leak" or "bend" round the side of trees, and also
unless the leaf cover is very thick, some waves can penetrate. Deep inside
a forest one is probably OK, but although a single line of garden trees
helps, it's not perfect. In my Dad's back garden we noticed a significant
difference in the signal between summer and winter when the trees had lost
their leaves.
 
One interesting "angle" is that we all of course absorb microwaves
ourselves, being about 80% water. So if Sue and I are walking near a mast,
I can walk on the mast side of her as a "human shield"! It does make some
difference - the electrosmog detector shows the signal is significantly less
where my body blocks it, but the effect only lasts for a couple of feet.
(But we don't mind walking that close together!)
 
But basically, as has been said, the biggest single difference comes from
shielding windows, using the standard metallic gauze netting. Glass windows
have virtually no blocking power (no water in them) whereas external walls
are pretty good. However we've also seen "hot spots" inside a room where
the beam was coming through a window in another room and then through a thin
internal wall; or where it was coming down through the roof space (where
there are only tiles or thin walls in the way of the beam).
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie
Sent: 25 June 2007 18:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: I need some input and suggestions



Hi, Canary,

Thanks for the site. I will read there and see what it says. I have ES alot
while out driving in the car. My home is fairly good, ES-wise, but a
nightmare otherwise. I only mentioned pesticides, but there is more to why I
should move than this.

I do notice that in small valleys and places where there are many trees, and
specifically pine trees, or large bodies of water, I am better. I am worst
on high open land or where I can visibly see the offending tower. When I
first became ES again last year, I was puzzled why I got worse going down
into a valley or coming back out. It turned out that the car was shielding
me in some areas and when I went into or out of the valleys the frequencies
were able to reach me because the car was at an angle. So there seem to be
many situations which can positively affect ES. But since I don't live 24/7
in that atmosphere, I am not sure whether I can count on these positive
situations to transfer to an environment in which I would live with cell and
microwave towers on an ongoing basis.

Also, there are many questions I have when one says trees don't work. How
high are they? Are there satelite dishes or other electronics close by? What
about the effects of various types of siding? Some say aluminum siding will
protect the house, but then does that mean that it will reflect the
frequencies out into your yard and make the yard "hot"??? Same with a fence
or metal screening? It doesn't appear that there is much consensus on any of
this. It seems very confusing. There doesn't seem to be alot of hard fact
out there. But I appreciate all the sharing of experiences of the people
here. Still confusing. lol But...

Thanks again, Canary,
Diane

canaryyuk <asurisuk@excite. <mailto:asurisuk%40excite.com> com> wrote:
i'm not sure trees will work based on a post i read earlier on the
website Mast-Victims.org. Look at the "Vortex" case history. One of
the posters says they spent thousands on trees that didn't "do
diddle" as they put it!.

But all in all its very difficult to give advice as only you know
your own body, and whether your problem is primarily MCS or ES. I
remember that lady Cara who was on here seeking advice about buying a
house ages ago to ease her ES husband's symptoms. She went for a
house at the bottom of a hill with a mast on top of it, even though
we all advised her against it, and we had a debate then about
measuring devises versus gut instinct in choosing somewhere to live.
She got the house and the last thing we heard as far as i recall
(tho' i have been a bit out of touch for the past year) she reported
back after a week in the new house that everything was great, and as
far as i know (correct me if i'm wrong) we've not heard from her
since (which i presume must be a good sign??)

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, paulpjc@...
wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 6/23/2007 2:00:59 AM GMT Daylight Time,
> evie15422@... writes:
>
> . I CAN opt to buy full grown pine trees. My current next-door
neighbor
> raises Christmas trees and he would help me out. Still would be
pricey and would
> have to be professionally planted, but could probably be done. The
house
> itself is only half of our planned budget, so we'd have money to
spend there. (It
> is a fixer upper in a nice neighborhood, but it really doesn't
need much
> except cosmetic improvements.. I CAN opt to buy full grown pine
trees. My
> current next-door neighbor raises Christmas trees and he wou
> there over time even with trees. I love gardening and so I
definitely would
> want to go outdoors.
>
>
>
>
> If you want to iron out any EMF problems, it would be better to get
a
> professional EMF survey and solution done. The trees will offer
some deflection/
> absorbtion but better to sheild with the correct material
especially over
> windows. Make sure that you get the earth checked out so that
your metal
> fixtures are properly earth bonded. This should be included in a
good emf
> survey/report/solutions. It will be money well spent and cost
less than one mature
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Ian,
   
No, I have no sources. The people I spoke with at the EHCD and National Pesticide Hotline both indicated that I would definitely not want to be present and mentioned my past health problems. They both said not to be involved with the ozone generator, because I asked specifically if I would be able to do this myself (as I wanted to do what I could to clean up and not have hubby doing every little thing). I asked both people because I thought the person from the EHCD was maybe making more of it than was necessary. Iam not sure whether the bbb was mentioned directly both times, tho I am sure it was mentioned by the person from the EHCD. (I still don't know if there is any hard science here. When you tell someone like that you have hadbbb issues, they sometimes over react.)

Diane
Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Diane for the info about the possible adverse effect of ozone on the
blood-brain barrier. I hadn't heard about this; do you have a source or
guidelines? It's significant because the blood-brain barrier is definitely
implicated for Sue so I will have to be very careful! Fortunately Sue is
away at the moment so any ozone left over will have had time to dissipate by
the time she returns.
Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie
Sent: 25 June 2007 18:41
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Ozone generators (was: I need some input and
suggestions)

Hi, Ian,

They were not sure. The pesticide in question is tralomethrin and they told
me very little is known about this pesticide, as far as what happens inside
a home where this was used. The studies show only that this pesticide breaks
down in about a year OUT DOORS. But the guy I talked to told me this could
translate to many years indoors, where there is no rain, wind, cold, and
perhaps few microbes to work on it. He said there is no way of knowing but 6
to 10 years is not out of the question. I can attest that I am still
reacting 16 months later. There were no studies done inside using ozone and
he could only say it might work or not. He said it could even make it worse
(tho that is not usually the case).

Since tralomethrin is the new pesticide of choice in motels, hotels, trains,
boats, and planes you'd think that someone would have done better homework!
Ah well..... It is also used extensively on veggies. I am highly allergic.
No travelling for me and I now wince at broccoli.

I still haven't ruled out ozone, Ian. But I have been putting it off because
they told me 'I' should not be present when it is done due to my past blood
brain barrier issues. My husband has been having serious health problems,
too (and I think the pesticide has affected him and he just doesn't feel it
physically the same as me.).

Anyway, I would just like us both out of here. He has to have surgery in 2
weeks and I was hoping he could recover in a new place. Not much moving to
do--it comes fully equipped with furniture! (estate sale) I would be
cleaning it top to bottom, tho. This house is affordable to try without
selling our current house. If we tried it and it didn't work, we could
probably resell and maybe even make money, depending on the small fixups
we'd be doing. (I wouldn't plant 15 to 20ft trees right away, but would
shield the windows, etc, inside first.) I also could ozone our current house
into the next century while we were trying that house out. ;) If it didn't
make things worse, we could always return.

Let me know how Sue likes the ozone machine.
My best to Sue and thanks, Ian,
Diane

Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net>
ukgateway.net> wrote:
Interesting that the pesticide people were sceptical about ozone - had they
actually tried it or were they not sure?

If material is deeply impregnated with something awkward, ozone might be the
only thing that has a chance of working. Sue's car was valeted last year
and the guy used some perfumed shampoo by mistake, although we'd
specifically told him not to. We tried all sorts of things to remove the
smell - steam cleaning, bicarbonate of soda - which reduced it but did not
remove the residual smell impregnated into the fabric. Then we tried an
ozone generator lent by a friend, and it removed the smell completely in two
12 hour bursts. Sue has used the car ever since with no ill effects.

The manufacturers claim it is widely used in nursing homes and hotels to
break down smells from spillages, incontinence etc. which sounds promising.
The principle is that the ozone, which is highly reactive and "oxidising",
breaks down large organic molecules (like pesticide) into carbon dioxide and
water. Because it is a gas, it penetrates deeply into fabrics whereas steam
cleaning etc just affects the surface. This is scientifically sound, the
question is how fast does it work on any given molecule; minutes, hours,
days, weeks or months? Also, other things in the room could be affected
(e.g. colours could fade, plastics could begin to break down), though
hopefully the effect will be small for a short exposure.

We have just bought an ozone generator as a last attempt to solve the
problem of odour from our new carpet. This is a wool carpet and the residual
smell (which irritates Sue's lungs) is probably either a pesticide or the
dark green dye, or both. This generator cost just under £ 200 sterling
(about $ 300 US). We will try it out and report back to the group on
whether it is successful on this, but will not have any results for a couple
of weeks as Sue is away at the moment.

Incidentally we did try an air cleaner (air filter) on this and, although it
improved matters, it didn't solve them. It mopped up odours that had
already offgassed but didn't do anything to stop future offgassing. As far
as I kow you are right - they produce little or no ozone (even the ones
which generate negative ions), so are not a substitute for a true ozone
generator.

Ian

_____

From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of Evie
Sent: 23 June 2007 02:13
To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: Re: [eSens] I need some input and suggestions

Hi Andrew,

Marc suggested trying ozone about 8 months ago. I asked the pesticide
hotline people and they did not think it would work. I tried air cleaners
(with ozone and without) and they tend to make the problem worse, not
better. But I do not think that qualifies as an ozone generator. An ozone
generator is still something I have considered, but I am not sure which one
is best to buy. (And they are pricey.) I was told to rent one from a local
hazmat team, but area fire departments seem not to have a clue what I am
talking about.

I did not try UV lights, tho. That is a thought and I will try that! Thanks!
Nobody has mentioned that and that is an easy try.

Thanks again, Andrew,
Diane

Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@nc. <mailto:amcafeerr%40nc.rr.com> rr.com> wrote:
I wonder if an Ozone generator will help break down the pesticides.
There are air cleaners and UV lights that might help too.
andrew

On Jun 22, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Evie wrote:

---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



         

       
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ian,

I must correct you here.

Glass windows may have an enormous shielding capacity.
I see that daily while measuring.
But of course I am speaking about what we call HR++ glass, which is a very
thermal insulating glass.
The stone walls shield less than those window panes.

It is difficult to say where *hotspots* originate from.
They are small concentrations of high frequencies.
I measure them as some balls (bigger than a tennis ball, but smaller than a
football).
I use a special meter with a magnetic antenna.
I usually measure the *sitting positions* in living rooms, and over the
beds.

It is so possible to determine where people have trouble in their head, or
their chest, or their abdomen, or legs.


Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 21:58
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Trees and water - I need some input and suggestions

Yes, true about special glass. I was thinking only of normal window glass
which is found in most houses. HR++ glass is quite expensive, and I wonder
how it compares for cost with draping shielding fabric over the window.
Also, of course, if visiting other people's houses, they are most unlikely
to have special glass.
 
Building materials' absorption is interesting, I guess there is some data
somewhere on what absorbs best? Based on the water content alone I would
guess it was: thick wood > brick > stone > thin wood, but of course
absorption is also proportional to wall thickess, so thick stone walls could
be very effective?
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
charles
Sent: 25 June 2007 22:19
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Trees and water - I need some input and suggestions



Hello Ian,

I must correct you here.

Glass windows may have an enormous shielding capacity.
I see that daily while measuring.
But of course I am speaking about what we call HR++ glass, which is a very
thermal insulating glass.
The stone walls shield less than those window panes.

It is difficult to say where *hotspots* originate from.
They are small concentrations of high frequencies.
I measure them as some balls (bigger than a tennis ball, but smaller than a
football).
I use a special meter with a magnetic antenna.
I usually measure the *sitting positions* in living rooms, and over the
beds.

It is so possible to determine where people have trouble in their head, or
their chest, or their abdomen, or legs.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net>
ukgateway.net>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 21:58
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Trees and water - I need some input and suggestions



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The one I got was from "Prozone" supplied by Vectair Industries of
Basingstoke. I think it may be US manufactured as it comes with a US plug
and adaptor to UK 3-pin.
 
The other company I noted were Ozone Industries Ltd in Farnborough (good
website). Both of them sounded good and I went for Prozone because it was
slightly cheaper and the spec seemed comparable. But I am no expert and
there may be a significant difference between them.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of pete
robinson
Sent: 25 June 2007 08:45
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Ozone generators (was: I need some input and
suggestions)



where did you get you're generator from ..
i would like one for my motor it is old and smells old as well
best
pete
On 24 Jun 2007, at 22:28, Ian Kemp wrote:
[mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> They both said not to be involved with the ozone generator,
> because I asked specifically if I would be able to do this
> myself

You could blast your house with ozone by yourself. All you
need to do is be away from the house for a number of hours.
Put the ozone generator on a timer, and make sure that
you return home at least 30 minutes after the timer turns
off (ozone disapates all by itself pretty quickly)

Marc

> Building materials' absorption is interesting, I guess there is some data
> somewhere on what absorbs best? Based on the water content alone I would
> guess it was: thick wood > brick > stone > thin wood, but of course
> absorption is also proportional to wall thickess, so thick stone walls
> could
> be very effective?

Hi Ian,

There is a document called:
Electromagnetic Signal Attenuation in Construction Materials
NIST Construction Automation Program, Report No. 3

which is produced by US National Institute of Standards and Technology and
it details the attenuation of various building materials. You can get it at
http://www.lessemf.com/book8.html

Emil

We use the german
*Reduzierung hochfrequenter Strahlung*
by Peter pauli and Dietrich Moldan
where many building materials as well as shielding materials were tested and
their shielding factor determinded according to the Standard IEEE 299.
It is a 59 pages book.

A sample can be downloaded from:
http://www.drmoldan.de/html/publikationen1.htm

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Less EMF" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 16:20
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Trees and water - I need some input and suggestions

In my experience when out walking, i have found that trees definitely
offer some protection from mast emissions, and i have heard the
difference on my acousticom.  

I was walking yesterday about a mile from a big tall mast along a
canal path that was shielded by trees for most of its length. Didn't
have my acousti-com with me (annoyingly) but could definitely feel
the rays. However the trees protected me enuff to prevent full on
brain heating/migraine. (the only time when i felt the grip of the
mast emissions loosen almost entirely, was when the trees were so
tall that they also formed a canopy above my head).
j

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Basically, trees, lakes and anything with water in are good
absorbers of
> microwaves (and turn them into a small amount of thermal heat). But
a
> proportion of waves can "leak" or "bend" round the side of trees,
and also
> unless the leaf cover is very thick, some waves can penetrate.  
Deep inside
> a forest one is probably OK, but although a single line of garden
trees
> helps, it's not perfect. In my Dad's back garden we noticed a
significant
> difference in the signal between summer and winter when the trees
had lost
> their leaves.
>  
> One interesting "angle" is that we all of course absorb microwaves
> ourselves, being about 80% water. So if Sue and I are walking near
a mast,
> I can walk on the mast side of her as a "human shield"! It does
make some
> difference - the electrosmog detector shows the signal is
significantly less
> where my body blocks it, but the effect only lasts for a couple of
feet.
> (But we don't mind walking that close together!)
>  
> But basically, as has been said, the biggest single difference
comes from
> shielding windows, using the standard metallic gauze netting.  
Glass windows
> have virtually no blocking power (no water in them) whereas
external walls
> are pretty good. However we've also seen "hot spots" inside a room
where
> the beam was coming through a window in another room and then
through a thin
> internal wall; or where it was coming down through the roof space
(where
> there are only tiles or thin walls in the way of the beam).
>  
> Ian
>
> _____  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Evie
> Sent: 25 June 2007 18:03
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: I need some input and suggestions
>
>
>
> Hi, Canary,
>
> Thanks for the site. I will read there and see what it says. I have
ES alot
> while out driving in the car. My home is fairly good, ES-wise, but a
> nightmare otherwise. I only mentioned pesticides, but there is more
to why I
> should move than this.
>
> I do notice that in small valleys and places where there are many
trees, and
> specifically pine trees, or large bodies of water, I am better. I
am worst
> on high open land or where I can visibly see the offending tower.
When I
> first became ES again last year, I was puzzled why I got worse
going down
> into a valley or coming back out. It turned out that the car was
shielding
> me in some areas and when I went into or out of the valleys the
frequencies
> were able to reach me because the car was at an angle. So there
seem to be
> many situations which can positively affect ES. But since I don't
live 24/7
> in that atmosphere, I am not sure whether I can count on these
positive
> situations to transfer to an environment in which I would live with
cell and
> microwave towers on an ongoing basis.
>
> Also, there are many questions I have when one says trees don't
work. How
> high are they? Are there satelite dishes or other electronics close
by? What
> about the effects of various types of siding? Some say aluminum
siding will
> protect the house, but then does that mean that it will reflect the
> frequencies out into your yard and make the yard "hot"??? Same with
a fence
> or metal screening? It doesn't appear that there is much consensus
on any of
> this. It seems very confusing. There doesn't seem to be alot of
hard fact
> out there. But I appreciate all the sharing of experiences of the
people
> here. Still confusing. lol But...
>
> Thanks again, Canary,
> Diane
>
> canaryyuk <asurisuk@excite. <mailto:asurisuk%40excite.com> com>
wrote:
> i'm not sure trees will work based on a post i read earlier on the
> website Mast-Victims.org. Look at the "Vortex" case history. One of
> the posters says they spent thousands on trees that didn't "do
> diddle" as they put it!.
>
> But all in all its very difficult to give advice as only you know
> your own body, and whether your problem is primarily MCS or ES. I
> remember that lady Cara who was on here seeking advice about buying
a
> house ages ago to ease her ES husband's symptoms. She went for a
> house at the bottom of a hill with a mast on top of it, even though
> we all advised her against it, and we had a debate then about
> measuring devises versus gut instinct in choosing somewhere to
live.
> She got the house and the last thing we heard as far as i recall
> (tho' i have been a bit out of touch for the past year) she
reported
> back after a week in the new house that everything was great, and
as
> far as i know (correct me if i'm wrong) we've not heard from her
> since (which i presume must be a good sign??)
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com,
paulpjc@ The get web links.

my dad has got bog standard double glazed windows in his bedroom,
which appears to screen out the rays from nearby mast.

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Ian,
>
> I must correct you here.
>
> Glass windows may have an enormous shielding capacity.
> I see that daily while measuring.
> But of course I am speaking about what we call HR++ glass, which is
a very
> thermal insulating glass.
> The stone walls shield less than those window panes.
>
> It is difficult to say where *hotspots* originate from.
> They are small concentrations of high frequencies.
> I measure them as some balls (bigger than a tennis ball, but
smaller than a
> football).
> I use a special meter with a magnetic antenna.
> I usually measure the *sitting positions* in living rooms, and over
the
> beds.
>
> It is so possible to determine where people have trouble in their
head, or suggestions
>
>
> > Basically, trees, lakes and anything with water in are good
absorbers of
> > microwaves (and turn them into a small amount of thermal heat).
But a
> > proportion of waves can "leak" or "bend" round the side of trees,
and also
> > unless the leaf cover is very thick, some waves can penetrate.  
Deep
> > inside
> > a forest one is probably OK, but although a single line of garden
trees
> > helps, it's not perfect. In my Dad's back garden we noticed a
significant
> > difference in the signal between summer and winter when the trees
had lost
> > their leaves.
> >
> > One interesting "angle" is that we all of course absorb microwaves
> > ourselves, being about 80% water. So if Sue and I are walking
near a
> > mast,
> > I can walk on the mast side of her as a "human shield"! It does
make some
> > difference - the electrosmog detector shows the signal is
significantly
> > less
> > where my body blocks it, but the effect only lasts for a couple
of feet.
> > (But we don't mind walking that close together!)
> >
> > But basically, as has been said, the biggest single difference
comes from
> > shielding windows, using the standard metallic gauze netting.  
Glass
> > windows
> > have virtually no blocking power (no water in them) whereas
external walls
> > are pretty good. However we've also seen "hot spots" inside a
room where
> > the beam was coming through a window in another room and then
through a
> > thin
> > internal wall; or where it was coming down through the roof space
(where
> > there are only tiles or thin walls in the way of the beam).
> >
> > Ian
> >
>

In a message dated 6/26/2007 11:27:37 PM GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

my dad has got bog standard double glazed windows in his bedroom,
which appears to screen out the rays from nearby mast.




Unlikely unless hes has low E glass coating ?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 6/26/2007 11:22:48 PM GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

brain heating/migraine. (the only time when i felt the grip of the
mast emissions loosen almost entirely, was when the trees were so
tall that they also formed a canopy above my head).
j




Shame that most of the dense ones loose the leaves come fall/autumn !






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Unlikely unless hes has low E glass coating ?

"Low E" glass coating is pretty much the default these
days in the US. Last year when we replaced all of
our windows, we had some difficulty getting good old
fashioned clear glass (we wanted to preserve the view
and let in lots of light)

Marc

In my experience metal flyscreen works well *if* it is not weathered.
The crossing wires need to make electrical contact with eachother.
On casement-style windows the screen is inside, not exposed to
weather when the window is closed, and likely to work well.

Low-E glass is apt to shield some, but the low-E glass on my house
does not do much. Some metal tint (50% reflective) shield very well, while
others do not
(in the case of Scotchtint, 'amber metallic' shields well, but silver does
not).

Bill

On 6/26/07, canaryyuk <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

well, i'm pretty sure that the windows screen it out, and now i think
about it they're not even dbl glazed, but PVC. But i may be wrong. I
will double check when i next visit home.

--- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote:

Dear Julie,

I am using one of Vinnies Coherent Space Devices. I have used it since
August last year or thereabouts. I have power poles that are too close to my
inner city home and are emitting around 8- 12 mG throughout. One of my main
symptoms was mental impairment. That is, I could not think straight, typed
incoherently and experienced a vast memory loss among other things. Since I
have been using Vinnies wonderful device my memory has returned, I no longer
type backwards and it feels wonderful to have my mind back to normal. I
don't feel so powerless and debilitated any more. If anything, Vinnies
device addresses the mental impairment issues associated with EMR
beautifully. I also have 2 friends in Australia (Melbourne) with similar
issues to me who have invested in a device and both claim to have had the
same mind enhancing experience with it.
So I highly recommend the device if you are having mind /balance problems.

Cheers,
Helen


On 6/25/07, lunagirl32002 <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is the first I am hearing of EM but it sounds really interesting. I
recently began
brewing kombucha at home so the fermented products are interesting to me and
I like the
ingredients used - especially in the Xtra (EM)(r) Filtered and SCD
ProBiotica™. I would love
to hear from people who have taken either of these and had good results?

Also, Vinny Pinto also does work with 'space coherence' according to one of
the websites
listed below. Has anyone ordered any of his products that supposedly help
harmonize EMF
energetics in the home?

Thanks! Julie

--- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, Rberge9640@...
wrote:
>
> EM works but it takes a long time. Frankly, it is a bit mystical. I did
> not believe many of the claims when I first started using it. A long time
for
> me was about a year before I saw significant results in myself, animals,
fish
> and plants. If you want to understand EM you need to read one of Dr. Teruo
same
> time. EM microbes out compete the bad microbes. While ozone kills the good

> and the bad. Vinny pinto has excellent information on the Web and in his
> books. EM America has some good on line videos. SCD World has EM Plus with

> more photosynthetic Microbes which are the heart of EM as they can survive
with
> or without oxygen.
>
> There are many variables and EM has to learn to work with your water and
> local bacteria. Individual results may take less or more time.


>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

By the way, the houses here are all stucco, so they have a layer of chicken
wire in the walls. For an all wood house the effect of the windows might
appear very different, ie less transmission than the walls instead of much
more.

Bill

On 6/28/07, canaryyuk <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]