They don't believe me

Hi everyone,

I can't believe it.

I met a woman who I fell inlove with. She is a doctor, and her friends are
doctores. When I happened to mention that I am EHS, they all pretty much
gazed at me and said it is Psycological, that there is no evedence that the
problems is a physcial one, that there os no hard data regarding it.

And all I can say was, But the pain is real!

And they said - "oh, we belevie you that you have pain. But is is couased be
stress. You should relax".

nowm this is the woman I am living with.


How can I explain to them that this is real problem?

Is there a study I can show them?

Is there by now a marker related to EHS?

It is so frastrating not to be believed


HIllel

Ps - I do feel much better re the syptoms. Yet, I still suffer mildly

> How can I explain to them that this is real problem?

I'm surprised that nobody has answered this question yet, as
over the years I've seen people post links to all sorts of
studies on ES, and our very own "files" section has some
interesting items.

I'd say that anyone who thinks that ES is psychological
has not spent much (if any) effort researching it. And
medical doctors are notorious for dismissing real illnesses
as psychological -- in the last 50 years, doctors have
done this for Multiple Sclerosis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,
Chemical Sensitivities, and Fibromyalgia. Eventually though,
the doctors see the truth -- usually long after everyone else,
though... :-(

Marc

--- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I can't believe it.
>
> I met a woman who I fell inlove with. She is a doctor, and her
friends are
> doctores. When I happened to mention that I am EHS, they all
pretty much
> gazed at me and said it is Psycological, that there is no evedence
that the
> problems is a physcial one, that there os no hard data regarding
it.
>
> And all I can say was, But the pain is real!
>
> And they said - "oh, we belevie you that you have pain. But is is
couased be
> stress. You should relax".

mildly
>
hi hillel,

my best advice is don't talk too much about it, don't make much fuss
about it and don't discuss it more than absolutely necessary and let
them experience in other ways that you are a rational person; and
little by little they will come to respect you and probably think "
may be she's got a point after all"; by presenting a lot of
literature on the topic, i'm afraid their response will rather
be "well, she's a little nuts about this".
If they should ask you about the problem, use some humour - that has
my most successful strategy.
best regards from peter
(in a way i was lucky, because i got an extensive rash all over my
body, which was obvious to everybody)

Hi,
   
>Not everyone that says it is psyhcological has lived it (yeah problem ofthe soul is right though, well that is all of the population) Relax is still good advice so maybe she's allright.. (plus falling in love may be causeand solution..)
   
Love,
   
Ellen

Hillel Wahrman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I can't believe it.

I met a woman who I fell inlove with. She is a doctor, and her friends are
doctores. When I happened to mention that I am EHS, they all pretty much
gazed at me and said it is Psycological, that there is no evedence that the
problems is a physcial one, that there os no hard data regarding it.

And all I can say was, But the pain is real!

And they said - "oh, we belevie you that you have pain. But is is couased be
stress. You should relax".

nowm this is the woman I am living with.


How can I explain to them that this is real problem?

Is there a study I can show them?

Is there by now a marker related to EHS?

It is so frastrating not to be believed


HIllel

Ps - I do feel much better re the syptoms. Yet, I still suffer mildly






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We are all victims of this "psychological" pigeonholing by some in our
society.
We cannot make believers out of those who refuse to see about anything. All
we can do is clearly and with facts, and measurable, hopefully science, speak
our truth quietly. Some will believe, some will not. We are not responsible
for those. I have found that to take on their doubts is not profitable. Make a
difference where you can, and choose your fights carefully. Some of you may
not agree, but freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. I have sat by and watched
the debate on things not related, I think, to ES. But I have also found
useful information in this group.
Marc, I am not anyone's judge. That has already been done by another. If
there is a problem, I have every faith He is able to explain for me. I can say it
is written and guide you back to the eternal wisdom. I am just a fruit
inspector, grateful to be in the vineyard. I want to thank you for your openness and
willingness to help those of us who suffer the same things as you. I am with
you 100 percent regarding the stonewalling of doctors and their choices in
dismissing our symptoms. A lot of it is political and lobbyists for the power
companies exercise too much power over the public perception of this
sensitivity/allergy/disease/condition/ailment.
Hillel, so they dont believe you. I would suggest purchasing a meter that you
can carry around. And maybe show them when your symptoms occur, but the
choice is yours. It is a personal choice how far you wish to go, even with your
significant other. I wish you well, and God bless. Peg




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for all your responses. I want to make it clear. They
dont dismiss my claim that I feel pain when close to a turned on
cell phone or other gadget. They Just say that treatment is not in
reducing the electric field, since the field is harmful. The reason
for the pain is in the head, its emtonal, and should be talked out
of there with pcychology.

Its hard to argue that stress is not related, it is. But the
mechanism of this condition is physical, and we should be able to
trust our doctors to search and find physical treatmet.

What I resent in some Doctores attetude is the condesending.Heart
problems and high blood pressure can be effected by stress. But
since there is a biological marker - they are not phsycological.


I would add : I feel better emotionally in the past year than since
many years, and I do feel better regarding ES. So the fact that one
effects the other is not disputed by me

H  

--- In [hidden email], pegpare9@... wrote:
>
> We are all victims of this "psychological" pigeonholing by some in
our
> society.
> We cannot make believers out of those who refuse to see about
anything. All
> we can do is clearly and with facts, and measurable, hopefully
science, speak
> our truth quietly. Some will believe, some will not. We are not
responsible
> for those. I have found that to take on their doubts is not
profitable. Make a
> difference where you can, and choose your fights carefully. Some
of you may
> not agree, but freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. I have sat
by and watched
> the debate on things not related, I think, to ES. But I have also
found
> useful information in this group.
> Marc, I am not anyone's judge. That has already been done by
another. If
> there is a problem, I have every faith He is able to explain for
me. I can say it
> is written and guide you back to the eternal wisdom. I am just a
fruit
> inspector, grateful to be in the vineyard. I want to thank you for
your openness and
> willingness to help those of us who suffer the same things as you.
I am with
> you 100 percent regarding the stonewalling of doctors and their
choices in
> dismissing our symptoms. A lot of it is political and lobbyists
for the power
> companies exercise too much power over the public perception of
this  
> sensitivity/allergy/disease/condition/ailment.
> Hillel, so they dont believe you. I would suggest purchasing a
meter that you
> can carry around. And maybe show them when your symptoms occur,
but the
> choice is yours. It is a personal choice how far you wish to go,
even with your
> significant other. I wish you well, and God bless. Peg    
>
>  
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
hillelwahrman

Thank you for all your responses. I want to make it clear. They
dont dismiss my claim that I feel pain when close to a turned on
cell phone or other gadget. They Just say that treatment is not in
reducing the electric field, since the field is harmful. The reason
for the pain is in the head, its emtonal, and should be talked out
of there with pcychology.

Yes, that is a very common medical attitude (and we have also found it among
some of our friends). Human nature is to be unbelieving of something that
does not seem to fit with your own life experience and those of people round
you, or "common sense": unless there is a general consensus in society that
something is true, e.g. everyone believes Madagascar is an island off the
east of Africa because it is there on maps, although hardly any of us will
have been there and seen it!

Medical science is an extremely complicated set of ideas and theories based
on centuries of observations and decades of discoveries. Generally, it fits
the facts very well. Since "new" diseases rarely appear from nowhere, if
something is unexplained, the tendency is to assume they don't exist
physically rather than that there is a gap in the theory. Unfortunately ME,
MCS and ES are indeed "new" diseases and don't fit well into existing
theories. But people always want to be careful about accepting new ideas
because there are an awful lot of people out there with plausible ideas and
way-out theories about all sorts of things, most of which are complete
nonsense. (Somebody suggested to me that people wear metal hats because they
are afraid of aliens zapping their brains with radiation...)

So I can understand why the sceptics feel that way. I am naturally
sceptical myself, but fortunately I saw Sue's ES problem suddenly develop
with a clear electrical-related cause, and had gone through the "suspicion
barrier" earlier with her MCS symptoms, so it was easier for me. Otherwise,
I would have found ES very hard to believe. I can uderstand why your doctor
friends feel that way - but hopefully we can gradually persuade them of the
real facts!

Its hard to argue that stress is not related, it is. But the
mechanism of this condition is physical, and we should be able to
trust our doctors to search and find physical treatmet. What I resent in
some Doctores attetude is the condesending. Heart problems and high blood
pressure can be effected by stress. But
since there is a biological marker - they are not phsycological.

You have highlighted the real problem (also in your earlier post) - there is
no clear undisputed biological marker as yet. At the moment there is no
test that a doctor can run which will show a person has ES. All he can rely
on is a patient's report of their symptoms, and these are notoriously
inaccurate. There are some ideas on tests - myelin antibodies, recording
brain wave patterns etc. Unfortunately until ES is more widely known and
accepted, very few people will want to research into these things, so they
will remain undetected, so there won't be a test ... etc.etc.

I would add : I feel better emotionally in the past year than since
many years, and I do feel better regarding ES. So the fact that one
effects the other is not disputed by me

Great to hear that. You know what has really happened to you and what has
helped you. Obviously you must have been doing something right despite the
absence of medical treatment! (Even though I'm afraid some will say, Look,
it was all in the mind, it went away by itself... Not much we can do about
that, even though people also sometimes recover spontaneously from
physically "proven" illnesses like cancer). Hope your recovery is soon
complete in every respect.

Ian

H

--- In [hidden email], pegpare9@... wrote:
>
> We are all victims of this "psychological" pigeonholing by some in
our
> society.
> We cannot make believers out of those who refuse to see about
anything. All
> we can do is clearly and with facts, and measurable, hopefully
science, speak
> our truth quietly. Some will believe, some will not. We are not
responsible
> for those. I have found that to take on their doubts is not
profitable. Make a
> difference where you can, and choose your fights carefully. Some
of you may
> not agree, but freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. I have sat
by and watched
> the debate on things not related, I think, to ES. But I have also
found
> useful information in this group.
> Marc, I am not anyone's judge. That has already been done by
another. If
> there is a problem, I have every faith He is able to explain for
me. I can say it
> is written and guide you back to the eternal wisdom. I am just a
fruit
> inspector, grateful to be in the vineyard. I want to thank you for
your openness and
> willingness to help those of us who suffer the same things as you.
I am with
> you 100 percent regarding the stonewalling of doctors and their
choices in
> dismissing our symptoms. A lot of it is political and lobbyists
for the power
> companies exercise too much power over the public perception of
this
> sensitivity/allergy/disease/condition/ailment.
> Hillel, so they dont believe you. I would suggest purchasing a
meter that you
> can carry around. And maybe show them when your symptoms occur,
but the
> choice is yours. It is a personal choice how far you wish to go,
even with your
> significant other. I wish you well, and God bless. Peg
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Apologies, this message may have been rather incomprehensible to some
because Yahoo seem to have lost the formatting on some browsers. I have
indicated below which paragraphs were Hillel's and which were mine, to make
it clearer.
Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian
Kemp
Sent: 31 May 2006 08:44
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: They don't believe me


_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
hillelwahrman

(Hillel) Thank you for all your responses. I want to make it clear. They
dont dismiss my claim that I feel pain when close to a turned on
cell phone or other gadget. They Just say that treatment is not in
reducing the electric field, since the field is harmful. The reason
for the pain is in the head, its emtonal, and should be talked out
of there with pcychology.

(Ian) Yes, that is a very common medical attitude (and we have also found
it among
some of our friends). Human nature is to be unbelieving of something that
does not seem to fit with your own life experience and those of people round
you, or "common sense": unless there is a general consensus in society that
something is true, e.g. everyone believes Madagascar is an island off the
east of Africa because it is there on maps, although hardly any of us will
have been there and seen it!

Medical science is an extremely complicated set of ideas and theories based
on centuries of observations and decades of discoveries. Generally, it fits
the facts very well. Since "new" diseases rarely appear from nowhere, if
something is unexplained, the tendency is to assume they don't exist
physically rather than that there is a gap in the theory. Unfortunately ME,
MCS and ES are indeed "new" diseases and don't fit well into existing
theories. But people always want to be careful about accepting new ideas
because there are an awful lot of people out there with plausible ideas and
way-out theories about all sorts of things, most of which are complete
nonsense. (Somebody suggested to me that people wear metal hats because they
are afraid of aliens zapping their brains with radiation...)

So I can understand why the sceptics feel that way. I am naturally
sceptical myself, but fortunately I saw Sue's ES problem suddenly develop
with a clear electrical-related cause, and had gone through the "suspicion
barrier" earlier with her MCS symptoms, so it was easier for me. Otherwise,
I would have found ES very hard to believe. I can uderstand why your doctor
friends feel that way - but hopefully we can gradually persuade them of the
real facts!

(Hillel) Its hard to argue that stress is not related, it is. But the
mechanism of this condition is physical, and we should be able to
trust our doctors to search and find physical treatmet. What I resent in
some Doctores attetude is the condesending. Heart problems and high blood
pressure can be effected by stress. But
since there is a biological marker - they are not phsycological.

(Ian) You have highlighted the real problem (also in your earlier post) -
there is
no clear undisputed biological marker as yet. At the moment there is no
test that a doctor can run which will show a person has ES. All he can rely
on is a patient's report of their symptoms, and these are notoriously
inaccurate. There are some ideas on tests - myelin antibodies, recording
brain wave patterns etc. Unfortunately until ES is more widely known and
accepted, very few people will want to research into these things, so they
will remain undetected, so there won't be a test ... etc.etc.

(Hillel) I would add : I feel better emotionally in the past year than
since
many years, and I do feel better regarding ES. So the fact that one
effects the other is not disputed by me

(Ian) Great to hear that. You know what has really happened to you and
what has
helped you. Obviously you must have been doing something right despite the
absence of medical treatment! (Even though I'm afraid some will say, Look,
it was all in the mind, it went away by itself... Not much we can do about
that, even though people also sometimes recover spontaneously from
physically "proven" illnesses like cancer). Hope your recovery is soon
complete in every respect.

Ian

H

--- In [hidden email], pegpare9@... wrote:
>
> We are all victims of this "psychological" pigeonholing by some in
our
> society.
> We cannot make believers out of those who refuse to see about
anything. All
> we can do is clearly and with facts, and measurable, hopefully
science, speak
> our truth quietly. Some will believe, some will not. We are not
responsible
> for those. I have found that to take on their doubts is not
profitable. Make a
> difference where you can, and choose your fights carefully. Some
of you may
> not agree, but freedom of choice is a wonderful thing. I have sat
by and watched
> the debate on things not related, I think, to ES. But I have also
found
> useful information in this group.
> Marc, I am not anyone's judge. That has already been done by
another. If
> there is a problem, I have every faith He is able to explain for
me. I can say it
> is written and guide you back to the eternal wisdom. I am just a
fruit
> inspector, grateful to be in the vineyard. I want to thank you for
your openness and
> willingness to help those of us who suffer the same things as you.
I am with
> you 100 percent regarding the stonewalling of doctors and their
choices in
> dismissing our symptoms. A lot of it is political and lobbyists
for the power
> companies exercise too much power over the public perception of
this
> sensitivity/allergy/disease/condition/ailment.
> Hillel, so they dont believe you. I would suggest purchasing a
meter that you
> can carry around. And maybe show them when your symptoms occur,
but the
> choice is yours. It is a personal choice how far you wish to go,
even with your
> significant other. I wish you well, and God bless. Peg
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







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alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and wellness
Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness promotion
Business
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health+
wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=cq8JlfksEGFMRzKQ0DoSOA> health wellness

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