The Effectiveness of shielding

Hello
Could you answer this question: What EMF frequencies does the monitor
(preferably LCD one) emit? Has someone of you tried lessemf shielding
products and how it has affected your condition? How did the readings
of meters change?
Thank you
Daniil

Between 30 kHz and 60 kHz.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Bitdefender



----- Original Message -----
From: "pronina_n" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:16
Subject: [eSens] The Effectiveness of shielding

> Could you answer this question: What EMF frequencies does the monitor
> (preferably LCD one) emit? Has someone of you tried lessemf shielding
> products and how it has affected your condition? How did the readings
> of meters change?

I once tried using one of the glass screens with a grounding wire,
but it didn't do much (if anything) to improve my tolerance for
the LCD monitor. Both before and after, my meter read "0", but
I was not using a meter which read the appropriate frequencies!

Years later, I was able to solve my tolerance problems by detoxing,
moving the monitor further away from me, keeping the backlight
brightness down to a reasonable level, and using several EMF
protection devices (quantum power strip, quantum byte software,
springlife "lifeforce" polarizer, radar card). Before, I
could only tolerate being in front of the LCD monitor for
about 5 minutes before experiencing symptoms. Now, I can
be on it for 8+ hours a day without symptoms.

Marc

i know you have mentioned this before marc
but what do you recommend for protection as i would like to purchase
also what screen are you using now ?
thanks
pete
On 2 Oct 2007, at 18:19, Marc Martin wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> i know you have mentioned this before marc
> but what do you recommend for protection as i would like to purchase
> also what screen are you using now ?

At work I'm using a 21" Dell CRT. This is combined with overhead
florescent lights, which also contribute to problems. At home,
I'm using a 26" Sony Bravia HDTV (S3000). In both cases,
I keep my distance from them (about 3 feet between the monitor
and my face).

As for devices, as a minimum I seem to require multiple items
from Quantum Products. At work I'm currently using a Quantum
Home, a Quantum Power Conditioner, and the Quantum Byte software.
At home I'm using a Quantum Power Conditioner and the Quantum
Byte software. In addition to this, I'm using items from
Springlife Polarity -- at work I'm currently using 2 Lifeforce
pendants and at home I'm using 1 Lifeforce pendant. Also at
home I'm using a RA*D*AR card.

However, those recommendations are just what I'm using now.
I have certainly found other combinations of items which have
worked, and it all of course depends on your sensitivities
and how much time you need to spend on the computer. There
is also an interaction with supplements -- for example, if
I'm taking NDF for heavy metal removal, then I need to
cut down my usage of Springlife Polarizers. So it's a
balancing act to create as "neutral" of an environment
as possible.

I've also found that Shikai Borage oil skin lotion is
good at reducing burning skin symptoms, as is a small
amount of H-Minus powder mixed into a glass of water.

Marc

I agree with keeping distance, but I have more like 4 feet.

I've tried some of those glass shields and found they had no effect.
On one monitor I was successful shielding with "high performance" fabric
from lessEMF. But, it's not that easy to see through unless the fonts
are huge anyway. And, it was important to drape it so it was not directly
touching the screen, otherwise it didn't shield (according to an AM radio).

Bill

On 10/2/07, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is not necessary should be the products of lessemf, experience with
other shielding products is suitable too.
My monitor is in another room from the CPU box. There is a hole near
the bottom of the wall through which the signal cable goes to the
monitor. Thus my main problem is with the monitor (LCD). Do you still
think that this software, quantum bite could help? It haven't been
very clear how it works. Does it somehow change the quality of EMF or
maybe decrease them?
Thank you
Daniil

I managed to snaggle a military rugged shielded laptop some
time ago, but only got it working last fortnight due to
difficulty getting some upgrade gear.

Have done recently: bioprotect card intermittent, NDF
regularly, and new laptop. It is my feeling so far that
this laptop is working. There has certainly been a
diminishing of certain signs/symptoms, and I have used
it regularly. While I do know thee NDF is working, I could not have
done this with other
machines. These things cost I think about $15000 when new,
maybe less. I only noticed after a week the gridded
metallic window shielding, which I didn't think was on
this model. You can hose it, throw it in
the mud and hit it with an e-bomb. Haven't measured it
yet but it appears to be tempest or near.

It can be hooked up to 24V batteries with an internal
low noise step down regulator- no noisy switch modes,
only passive devices. Must now rig the cables for that, will
take a month.

I have stripped it half way. It uses the metallic screening
I mentioned and its v well designed for a market item, but
lacks some of the features that we know how to add, but
it has the reproducibility of a market item. My feeling is the
combination of a linear power
supply, with grid (better than fabric and affordable)
and various shieldings will make a good
general purpose monitor as Jaime has done. Additionally
in absence of fiber optics, a 'Ground loop cutter' (based on
something called a ballun I think) is available
to go on a vga video lead. This is a little box that makes the
signal cable carry less noise to the monitor from the CPU.
This machine is fanless and uses a variety of plastic
heat spreaders to distribute the heat which makes the
case very hot to the touch and almost completely silent. Its
made for the desert or everest.

I have a few of these laptops now but only one power supply,
the supplies are expensive, can get more. A number of people
have built shielded
computers and there have been a number of positive results, while
finding reliable responders can be difficult due to symptom
heterogeneity. If I get some more good feedback on this
system from my use, I would be prepared to loan it to someone
with strong well defined symptoms for a low
price of $30, but with a fairly hefty bond, simply as I don't
want anyone walking off with it if it works for them, to see
whether or not it affects their symptoms. In my
experience when no money (not even a nominal fee) changes
hands, something is not taken seriously. If a
number of people exist for whom such systems work, we have
the expertise to deliver v low emission systems to a large
group of people, thus making manufacturers and the general
public available of our requirements. It is remarkable that some
of these
symptoms of tinnitus mimic the sounds heard on sound meters.
With me its flickering on the vision, not computer related.
The previous shielded box I made had a screen that was
too hard to read (I can fix that now) and pointy corners which
probably would
have radiated magnetics. Well I don't know really.

Marc mentioned glass screens. My expensive one always worsened
my symptoms, and I wonder if on a laptop they act as a mirror
reflecting everything at user.

Rowan C out.


--- In [hidden email], "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with keeping distance, but I have more like 4 feet.
>
> I've tried some of those glass shields and found they had no effect.
> On one monitor I was successful shielding with "high performance"
fabric
> from lessEMF. But, it's not that easy to see through unless the
fonts
> are huge anyway. And, it was important to drape it so it was not
directly
> touching the screen, otherwise it didn't shield (according to an AM
radio).
>
> Bill
>
> On 10/2/07, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:
> >
> > > i know you have mentioned this before marc
> > > but what do you recommend for protection as i would like to
purchase

Interesting stuff. A few questions and thoughts.

> I only noticed after a week the gridded
> metallic window shielding"

So you can see through this window and it covers the
screen only? Are such wondows commercially available?

> It can be hooked up to 24V batteries with an internal
> low noise step down regulator- no noisy switch modes,
> only passive devices. Must now rig the cables for that, will
> take a month.

24v = two 12v auto batteries in series. That would be
ideal. Most laptops run off of odd voltages, 14.8v etc.
It would last a long time between charges, no need
for a transformer for a linear power supply, which requires
a great deal of shielding for me to tolerate.


> with grid (better than fabric and affordable)

Again what is this grid, and what would it shield?


> and various shieldings will make a good
> general purpose monitor

This thing is a laptop, not a monitor, correct?

> in absence of fiber optics,
> a 'Ground loop cutter' (based on something called a ballun I think)
>is available to go on a vga video lead. This is a little box that
>makes the signal cable carry less noise to the monitor from the CPU.

Do you have a link to such a device?

> I have a few of these laptops now but only one power supply,
> the supplies are expensive,

So these are switching power supplies? I recently
discovered much less symptoms and less EMF when my
laptop runs on batteries vs. the AC switching power adapter.


> The previous shielded box I made had a screen that was
> too hard to read (I can fix that now)

How? With that metalic grid?

Eli

> Thus my main problem is with the monitor (LCD). Do you still
> think that this software, quantum bite could help? It haven't been
> very clear how it works. Does it somehow change the quality of EMF or
> maybe decrease them?
> Thank you

I've been using the Quantum Byte software since 2001, and have tried
to find out as much about it as I can, and I still don't know
how it works! From my perspective as someone who writes software,
it seems absurd that a piece of software could do anything at
all. However, from my experience as someone who has ES, I
can see that it obviously does *something* (as evidenced by
the lack of face burning/red skin when I use it). It's not
a complete solution for me, but just another one of those
things that helps enough to keep using it.

You can download a 2-week free trial of the software here:

http://www.quantumproducts.com/quantumbytefreedownload/

If the software helps you at all, you should notice some
improvement in less than a few days. It also has the
potential to provoke detox reactions (makes you feel bad)
if the setting is too high for you. That usually can be
solved by lowering the setting or simply not having
it turned on all the time until you get used to it.

Marc

jus for wins no mac
On 5 Oct 2007, at 15:25, Marc Martin wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pete robinson wrote:
> jus for wins no mac

Yes, that's true, Quantum Products has no free demo for the Mac
on that page. They used to have a version for the Mac (with free demo),
and you might want to check with them about that. I know that the
company itself uses Macs, but I think they use the "Quantum Monitor"
hardware plugged into a VGA port on the computer and/or monitor. But
that's a lot more expensive, and has no free demo!

Marc

Sorry delay Eli, (busy having a weekend!) Will get
back with more detail on manufacturers mid week.

Uploaded some pics shielding into FILES.

Meshs: average quality available from non shielding
industry manufacturers serving other industries. You
want about 100 openings per inch (OPI). Stainless
steel readily available. What matters is good bonding
between all the strands. See pic average mesh. Copper
and other types available various places.

Metal meshs only give average shielding (40- 70 dB).
They are glittery, so a bit offputting to the eye.
Color them in black. My pic of box: took stainless
steel mesh, color it in with non removable texta and
smoke from a burning paper. Much better image quality.
Better image quality when mesh right at monitor, not
some inches away.

Mesh creates blurry screen image as it interacts with
pixels. Moire effect.Tilt the mesh at an angle (45 degrees)
to make it look good again. Also two layers of mesh is
better, but must tilt them to get rid of moire.

Have included picture of better quality mesh with
proper conductive blackening. You fix this across the
front of your monitor.

But this is not good enough. Does nothing. You must bond
it to a metal frame/box completely encasing the monitor
which I know you know. Here is the point. The termination
is everything (where the mesh meets the box at its edge).
This stuff leaks, so you lose all its
effectiveness around the rim where it meets the monitor's
metal shell. You must put good GASKETING or bonding of some sort
around the edge. Cheaply: fix tight with copper tape that
has conductive glue. Really better required: screw down,
conductive glues,
tapes or gaskets (sorry for the non engineers reading if
too many words here). That's where you will get your results.
Then Building Bio's and all will say well what about the longitudinal
waves so nothing counts unless its tested or you are a relieable
responder which you are.

Pic of my early box. You see I took a metal rectangular
frame screwed onto the box TIGHTLY forcing the mesh
onto the box, then mesh colored in texta. This is not
good enough. Probably only gives 30 dB shielding, never
measured it.

Better built window retrofitted ondisplayed in a while. I always meant
to replace this window (which was made to be replaced) with
a better one. More soonish. This is all built in to current
laptop however. (That box holds a laptop running off batteries).

Now shielding will give you 20- 70 dB across the spectrum.
A poorly designed inverter on the backlight will blow you
out by 60 dB in an instant. You need both shielding and
more importantly quiet power for a solution. Manufacturers
have let us down for economic and asthaetic reasons. Additionally
shielding has a 3 year life span if not well built- rust kills
it.

> > in absence of fiber optics,
> > a 'Ground loop cutter' (based on something called a ballun I
think)
> >is available to go on a vga video lead. This is a little box that
> >makes the signal cable carry less noise to the monitor from the
CPU.
>
> Do you have a link to such a device?

http://www.foresight-cctv.com/GB001.htm

it goes is made for cat 5 converters, sorry no more info now,
some mods to use with average VGA.

Shielded Device I now use:

It is a hardened laptop. Mil spec 3 pin plug takes power
from a 240 AC - 20V DC converter or built in battery which is
charged by said converter (currently dead off being renovated),
or I am told by a 24 V DC supply (truck batteries or 2 x 12V
car batteries) which steps down quietly to about 20 V into
the same 3 pin socket. I discussed
with a manufacturer about building such a quiet regulator
some years ago and they scoffed, but these are the
way to go. Your expertise appreciated. (If you have say
12 V of batteries, you can quietly step down to say
9 V by just wasting that 3 V buffer until the battery
runs down below say V and you have to recharge it, with
quiet circuitry.) I have the cable to
feed this 24 V into the laptop, just now must get a little
wiring converter to attach the other end to the batteries. Its
a sophisticated device overall of high build quality that allows
reproducible measurements to be made.

For the record, Per Segerback, the electrical engineer originally
from Ericsson Sweden last I spoke uses the following whenever:
instead of monitor, uses an 'LCD projector panel', which is an LCD
panel without a backlight that you lay over your projector. Grayscale.
Linear power supply, low power incandescent backlight. Previously LCD
separate power supplies backlight and circuitry as you. Charles
has commented on fans, can get rid of them using a few techniques.

Final comment: my response to this computer may simply be fortuitous
as new use of quieter machine, haven't hit the overdose period
yet as electrosensitives can. Or it could work, only multiple
opinions will show. This is the first night for me after
midnight since using it (writing now) so that is something
for me.

Rowst out for now.



--- In [hidden email],
"jaime_schunkewitz" <jaime_schunkewitz@...> wrote: think)
> >is available to go on a vga video lead. This is a little box that
> >makes the signal cable carry less noise to the monitor from the
CPU.

In a message dated 10/7/2007 4:22:14 PM GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

For the record, Per Segerback, the electrical engineer originally
from Ericsson Sweden last I spoke uses the following whenever:
instead of monitor, uses an 'LCD projector panel', which is an LCD
panel without a backlight that you lay over your projector. Grayscale.
Linear power supply, low power incandescent backlight. Previously LCD
separate power supplies backlight and circuitry as you. Charles
has commented on fans, can get rid of them using a few techniques.




Paul UK
Typing covered in tin foil completely over my head and neck plus worn out
head net, 2 eye holes in tn foil looks scary, after 10mins now getting
itch/smarting at back of head which is spreading, I am within 2feet/600mm from laptop
running on battery (still thats just as bad I find as powered by mains)
amyway re per segerbac, I have seen years ago a lcd type overlay that you place
over a standard overhead projector which then projects the compuetr image to a
background, is this what per is using ? I really need helkp on this as I am
aware that to attempt to rough it out on this laptop is killing me !!! I am
getting worse, but to find a way to use the computer for my living as a
architect/surveyor is lessor of many evils as I can get a good hourly rate for
the work. Have bought a log cabin for the garden, but the laptop is the major
problem, any ideas here welcome - we are a band of brothers and sisters in a
misinformed world, lets take care of each other !

Paul UK






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Been trying my darnest to build a computer that doesn't
rock me. But my lab work (soldering, power supplies, transformers,
etc) is taking me down hard. Took a few steps back when I
switched the LCD main circuit board to a linear supply. Linear
supplies provide very clean power, zero RF, but I think the
transformer is knocking me out. In the long run battery power is the
way to go. Out.
Eli


--- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote: worn out  
> head net, 2 eye holes in tn foil looks scary, after 10mins now getting  
> itch/smarting at back of head which is spreading, I am within
2feet/600mm from laptop
> running on battery (still thats just as bad I find as powered by
mains)  
> amyway re per segerbac, I have seen years ago a lcd type overlay
that you place  
> over a standard overhead projector which then projects the compuetr
image to a  
> background, is this what per is using ? I really need helkp on this
as I am
> aware that to attempt to rough it out on this laptop is killing me
!!! I am
> getting worse, but to find a way to use the computer for my living
as a  
> architect/surveyor is lessor of many evils as I can get a good
hourly rate for  
> the work. Have bought a log cabin for the garden, but the laptop is
the major
> problem, any ideas here welcome - we are a band of brothers and
sisters in a

Hello rowster_c.
I am not a native so I have a difficulty understanding your use of the
language. As I understand you tell that shielding generally is not
very useful if there is no quiet power. If you said that this kind of
shielding gave 20-70 db then how those inventors could spoil or cancel
it. In my case (the CPU box is in another room so I need to shield
only the LCD monitor) what can be done? The monitor is on the
warranty, besides I am not an engineer and can't change anything
inside by myself.