Supplements update; and readiness for intestinal cleanse?

About two months into our supplement program, we seem to have crossed
some kind of threshold. Although the change is subtle, it seems real,
i.e. has lasted more than a few days in a row. Whereas previously we
were averaging one good day a week, we have now had almost a solid
week of reasonably good days. By "good day" I mean: a notch more
energy and a notch or two less pain, and lower dosages needed on the
sleep meds (good sign). ES seems to be under better control also. The
grounding wrist strap is no longer worn every minute of the day; it's
now a bedtime-only accessory. My husband is not jumping around in
radiant health by any means, but he has gone on a few easy walks and
drives, run a few errands, enjoyed a few simple entertainments. The
psychological shift is as significant as the physical: his mood is
better, and he is taking a more active interest in our overall health
strategy. He wants to know what supplements he has been taking every
morning and how they work (or are supposed to work) – a big shift
since he had previously, explicitly asked me not to share any of my
research with him. (His energy and morale have been so low that he
could not bear the burden of expectation.) Now that he is seeing some
results for the first time, he's interested and encouraged to do
more. Two nights ago he actually dusted off some of his old
physiology textbooks and has been reading them at bedtime – and he is
volunteering to take baby steps toward dietary reform that were too
much for him to handle a week or so ago. Besides the supplements,
I've shared some of your thoughts with him on meditation, etc., and I
think the mind-body connection is sinking in.

The current supplement program is as follows:
Seasilver
Intramin
Cellfood
Milk Thistle
Evening Primrose Oil
Grapefruit Seed Extract
Garlic (tab)
Korean ginseng

A few supplements that we tried but quickly retired because they
didn't seem right, for now anyway:
Green Magma
Primal Defense
Niacin
Psyllium Husk caps

Next steps: Agrisept-L (for yeast management) and a serious
intestinal cleanse. By the way, our regular doctor (not ES-savvy)
pooh-poohed the notion of yeast syndrome (says it's overdiagnosed)
and then reacted very negatively to the idea of an intestinal
cleanse. She says my husband's system is too stressed and what he
needs is to take it easy, which includes continuing to eat the
comfort foods of his childhood (a classic American Midwestern diet
that probably got him into this mess in the first place). This
admonition to be a good (passive) patient and just keep taking the
prescription meds makes me nuts, but I'm trying to stay focused on
the recovery plan. My question to the list: Any thoughts on where
someone needs to be, recovery-wise, before taking on an intestinal
cleanse? We know this is a key step towards recovery, but we don't
want to rush it. We'll also be seeing a new, ES-savvy doctor in two
weeks, and are wondering if we should delay any new experiments until
after we meet with him.

Thanks,
Cara

Thanks for the update, Cara!

> My question to the list: Any thoughts on where
> someone needs to be, recovery-wise, before taking on an intestinal
> cleanse?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by that. If you mean
"fasting", then I would say that it goes at the very end,
when one considers themselves 99% recovered. If you're
talking about taking bulking agents or things that
pull poisons out of your digestive tract (psyllium,
bentonite, etc.), then that can (and probably should) be
done early in the process.

Colonics and enemas seem okay early on as well, but make
sure there are probiotics being taken afterwards.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Not fasting. I meant the second option, psyllium along with
anti-parasitic herbal teas etc. What I've read from this list
suggests this is nothing but a good thing to do early on, I just
want to check in since our doctor is so strongly opposed.
Incidentally, when my own father heard what we were doing, he
warned me that he had friends who did colonic cleanses -- and
died soon thereafter! (Gee, thanks Dad.) Now, I've never been
one to take any of my father's wild anecdotes seriously, and he
himself admitted under my close interrogation that no causal
relationship could be established... He just repeated that his
friends appeared relatively well before the cleanse, then
dramatically worse afterwards, and deteriorated quickly. He also
admitted that at least one of them had been battling a serious
illness anyway, which prompted the cleanse. (Hmm...)

I am not, by the way, repeating my father's silly story for any other
reason than to explain my frame of mind about this cleanse
(heightened anxiety) and why I'm asking the question of this list.
What sort of physical stress can we expect? What level of
exhaustion and for how long? I admit I'm hoping for reassurance
but any first-hand experience welcome. The product literature
with the cleanse suggests this process should be a breeze and
if my husband were physically stronger I probably wouldn't think
about it twice.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:
> Thanks for the update, Cara!
>
> > My question to the list: Any thoughts on where
> > someone needs to be, recovery-wise, before taking on an
intestinal

> He also
> admitted that at least one of them had been battling a serious
> illness anyway, which prompted the cleanse. (Hmm...)

Yes, I was thinking that most people only choose to have
colonics when faced with a life-threatening illness...

Most of my experiences with intestinal cleanses were quite
early in my recovery process 4 years ago. Frankly, I found
them to be overrated, and not really what I personally
needed for recovery. When researching about illnesses, one
inevitably finds books & articles talking about how
intestinal congestion are the root of all illnesses, and
after a simple 2-week intestinal cleanse you're health
will miraculously be improved. I didn't find this to
be the case at all. I saw little to no difference even
after months of doing various herbal cleanse, colonics,
enemas, etc. It just wasn't what I needed to get
better, and I suspect the few products that helped
a little had more to do with the nutritional content
of the product than any cleansing action.

And of the half-dozen intestinal cleanse products I
tried, this one had the most positive effect:

http://www.greenlineorganic.com/cleanser.htm

But don't let me stop you -- as long as one isn't
fasting, it shouldn't cause much problems at all.

Marc

Our two penn`orth of limited experience -

Sue tried a couple of colonic irrigations a few months back. She felt better and invigorated after one for a few days, but worse after the other. We ran into one girl who said that they had been the single biggest plus for her in improving her problems. On the other hand, most other people we`ve met haven`t found they did them any good (though, equally, no obvious harm).

Guess it`s another of these things that works for a few people (or maybe gives you a bit of a boost if you`re not very ill) but doesn`t help most people with chronic cases? Maybe it works if a major gut buildup problem is really the root cause for that particular person. I feel that candidiasis is either over-emphasised (by some nutritionists) or denied completely (by many doctors) - there seem to be very few people with a genuinely balanced view.

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Martin
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Readiness for intestinal cleanse?


> He also
> admitted that at least one of them had been battling a serious
> illness anyway, which prompted the cleanse. (Hmm...)

Yes, I was thinking that most people only choose to have
colonics when faced with a life-threatening illness...

Most of my experiences with intestinal cleanses were quite
early in my recovery process 4 years ago. Frankly, I found
them to be overrated, and not really what I personally
needed for recovery. When researching about illnesses, one
inevitably finds books & articles talking about how
intestinal congestion are the root of all illnesses, and
after a simple 2-week intestinal cleanse you're health
will miraculously be improved. I didn't find this to
be the case at all. I saw little to no difference even
after months of doing various herbal cleanse, colonics,
enemas, etc. It just wasn't what I needed to get
better, and I suspect the few products that helped
a little had more to do with the nutritional content
of the product than any cleansing action.

And of the half-dozen intestinal cleanse products I
tried, this one had the most positive effect:

http://www.greenlineorganic.com/cleanser.htm

But don't let me stop you -- as long as one isn't
fasting, it shouldn't cause much problems at all.

Marc


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am very happy with coffee enemas. They are great.

Nil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue and Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Readiness for intestinal cleanse?


>
> Our two penn`orth of limited experience -
>
> Sue tried a couple of colonic irrigations a few months back. She felt
better and invigorated after one for a few days, but worse after the other.
We ran into one girl who said that they had been the single biggest plus for
her in improving her problems. On the other hand, most other people we`ve
met haven`t found they did them any good (though, equally, no obvious harm).
>

Dear Mark,

I am considering buying the cellphone sized polarizer and the bigger
OM pendant, are they powerful enough for protecting one from EMFs,
what has been your experience for them? Or would it be more
effective polarising my home with the big rods. Money matters to
me, I either buy one or the other... so that is why I am asking you

Thanks in advance,

Flavio

> I am considering buying the cellphone sized polarizer and the bigger
> OM pendant, are they powerful enough for protecting one from EMFs,
> what has been your experience for them? Or would it be more
> effective polarising my home with the big rods. Money matters to
> me, I either buy one or the other... so that is why I am asking you

Which one is the cellphone sized polarizer?

I've had good luck with the polarizers, but I don't think everyone
here has, so it seems to vary by the individual.

For me, the Lifeforce & OM Pendants are strong enough for most
situations. The only situation where I need extra help is at
work, where there are lots of computers, fluorescent lights, and
wireless Internet access. For this situation, a larger sized
polarizer (5" OM) or the addition of a Quantum Power strip
helps gets me through the workday.

I personally like the smaller pendants instead of the larger
rods, because then I can take them with me everwhere -- in the
car, at work, while shopping, on vacation, etc. I have one
near me almost 24 hours a day.

Marc

Hi Cara,

I am sharing alot of opinions for not posting much previously... and certainly have tons to learn on SE and other things shared here.

But I do have over 20 years with CFS/ME other Neurological dx, and a bunch with MCS and contact with hundreds and hundreds with both. Plus, experience( loved ones) with other kinds of brain injuries.

from that perspective, here are some opinions!

The severe reactions of your husband, including to another's stress, or noise, yes, even crunching are quite familiar. The brain injury of CFS/ME, forinstance can definitely cause this. One little girl, for instance had to be in a dark, quiet room upstairs and could not tolerate the sound of the refrigerator downstairs.

Autonomic and other CNS dysfunction can also cause severe over-reaction to stimuli.

I have had total meltdowns from sensory overload...even with nothing wrong,but just interacting with more than one houseguest, for instance, or a long or animated conversation, or sometimes trying to talk, move and think all at once. I might not believe it if I had not lived (and witnessed) it!

Chemical exposures can also cause many "neuro-psychiatric" reactions.

Sometimes, I've been told I resemble an autistic kid, or trauma, PTSD surviver after these events. Very easy to confuse with neurosis, phobias, or exaggeration, but it's definitely something different/physiological. And seen/explained in the long term, true (hard science, not psych) research if investigated.

I also easily sense/absorb another's emotional state. Sometimes eerie to them, as tho I am a mind reader, but it is just a sensitivity thing that I cannot explain and do not even notice as unusual.

You seem to be making so much progress in understanding your husband that frankly, I would not even listen to anyone not in the same boat as he, who suggests that his reports are not accurate, or are just psychological.

I still believe in mind/body connection in healing, but this can be a slippery slope, depending on the source, because the Psychs and armchair psychs are using it alot to dismiss or minimize severe physical injuries from pathogens or toxins, (and ES, I'm sure.) There are billions of dollars at stakefor advancing the psych angle under the guise of eliminating "mind/body dualism", or using "multidisciplinary" "medicine".

About the cleansing thing...I can really understand your scepticism of yourDr. and (father?). But they may actually have valid points here. For a very ill or sensitive person, doing a detox too quickly can be very dangerous,and cause serious set-back. Some reasons are:
The de-toxing (glutathione) pathway itself may be injured and not operatingefficiently. This has to be corrected FIRST before significant de-toxing/cleansing can be safely or effectively done.

For a sensitive, injured, or highly toxic system, the toxins (or pathogens,when present) can be mobilized too quickly, causing injury as they move through the tissues or cross the blood/brain barrier.

In light of these things, if it were me, I would not add advanced cleansingplans until I saw the new dr. and did alot of research on the subject.
This is tempting to me even as I, too am about to see a really good, new doc.


I realize I know nothing of your husband's condition except from your posts. But some who are ill have moved too fast (especially when excited about progress) and had severe setbacks, sometimes not reversed. So, I would feel remiss not mentioning it. Hope you don't mind!

There is alot of research around... and experience to help you as you go along, from others who are highly sensitive. ill, or injured. Plus, of course, I hope you find some great help from the doc!

I have found your posts very interesting and helpful.

Katrina


--- In [hidden email], "Cara" <cara_evangelista@h...> wrote:

Thanks for the caution, Katrina. I appreciate it, especially since
your health concerns/symptoms sound very similar to my
husband's. You're right, it is easy to get impatient and rush
things... We've seen, even with simple things like supplements,
that the "right" thing taken the wrong time (before a particular
person's body is ready for it) can be counter-productive... Just
one more week to our doctor's appointment, I suppose we could
wait that long.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "kattemayo" <kattemayo@y...>
wrote:

> The de-toxing (glutathione) pathway itself may be injured and
not operating efficiently. This has to be corrected FIRST before
significant de-toxing/cleansing can be safely or effectively done.
>
> For a sensitive, injured, or highly toxic system, the toxins (or
pathogens, when present) can be mobilized too quickly, causing
injury as they move through the tissues or cross the blood/brain
barrier.
>
> In light of these things, if it were me, I would not add advanced
cleansing plans until I saw the new dr. and did alot of research
on the subject.

thanks for your reply Mark,

>
> Which one is the cellphone sized polarizer?

I meant the pager-sized polariser, you know... we are getting pretty
small cellphones.

Flavio

> I meant the pager-sized polariser, you know... we are getting pretty
> small cellphones.

Ah, well, from a convenience/practicality point-of-view, I'd
get the 5" rod, which is called the "OM 2" by Bioharmonics.com,
and is also referred to as the "Pocket Rocket" by other sellers.
This fits into a shirt pocket or a pants pocket easier
than the pager-sized one, and I think is almost as strong.

But I've found that the "right size" springlife polarizer
all depends on a number of factors, including what fields
you're being exposed to, your current level of sensitivity,
your current level of health, etc. It would seem that
like a lot of therapies, that you need to start with
a small amount, then ramp up to some maximum amount, and
then eventually back off to some low maintenence level.
That at least has been my experience.

Marc