Sleeping Better

Hi, Loni,
 
Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.  I have had too many irons in the fire lately to do my email regularly.
 
The AEP in calcium AEP stands for "2 amino ethanol phosphate", or in other words, cal2AEP, but my brand is just called "Calcium AEP" without mentioning the 2.  (It is listed on the back contents as cal2AEP.)
 
Also if you are choosing pantethine, look for yeastfree/glutenfree pantethine, if you are needing to watch either in your diet (pantethine almost always has yeast in it).  I mention this because alot of us with MCS don't tolerate yeast +/or gluten.
 
Also, when I began taking these, I could not tolerate them at full strength.  I repacked the pills--pulled them apart, put a small amount into an empty capsule (which you can buy separately) and then put both capsules back together.  If you don't have empty capsules you can also open the capsule and dump out most of it and put the capsule back together to take.  But, obviously, your supplements last longer if you repack them rather thandump out the excess.  It sounds complicated but, trust me, it is easy todo.  I started with about 1/8th of the contents and when I reacted well to each pantethine and cal AEP in that dose, I repacked 1/4th, then adjusted to that and then went to 1/2..... till I worked all the way up to taking 9 whole pills each/day (3 each/3meals or just with water).  The formulation I use is 300mg pantethine/1 capsule and 200mg cal2AEP+1800mg straight amino ethanol phosphate/1 capsule. 
 
I often hear people say they do not tolerate particular supplements.  I originally thought I didn't either.  Then my nutritionist told me I was possibly just reacting to the amounts I was taking and told me to repack themthis way.  I had problems taking many other supplements which I was ableto address this way too--molybdenum, selenium.....  This is particularlythe case for any supplement that detoxes the body.
 
Good luck.  I hope this works great for you if you try it,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:31 PM


 



Hi Diane,
 
I've been taking the pantothitic acid but Pantothene looks like it would bebetter. What is AEP?  My adrenals are shot & am on steroids but am trying to wean down on them but have been unsuccessful thus far due to the stress of exposure I'm living in. I did cut half a pill for my before bed dose &doing ok so far. So I'm getting 22.5 mg of hydrocortisone per day right now.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:31 PM

 

Hi, Loni,
 
Yes, for me personally it restores alot of my function (not quite the same as reducing the reaction), but it amounts to the same thing.  I *think*what the pantethine and cal AEP are doing are strengthening my adrenals, because 2 of the 3 most necessary nutrients for the adrenals are pantethenicacid and calcium (coQ10 being the third).  However, I have recently readsome research which links pantethine and calcium AEP to detoxing various toxins, too, so it is impossible for me to say for sure, knowing that, what is taking place.  What I DO know is, for me, these supplements restore my plummetinng blood pressure, so it is likely if you have this symptom it might work that way for you or others, as well, but if you do not have that symptom, then you wouldn't likely see anything palpable going on.  (Not that they couldn't possibly be addressing something else in your body.)  I don't know if others here have ever tried these supplements in the way
I take them or not.  I have certainly shared this info enough over the years. 
 
I really feel restoring deficient nutrients might totally address our allour symptoms.  The problem is finding which and how much of these we need.  And we would likely all need different nutrients, depending on our life styles, the foods we eat, and amount and types of stress we encounter.  So it isn't easy to address this, tho on the surface it might seem so. 
 
I wish you health,
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again Loni,
 
I addressed the amount in the other email.  Understand that I take pantethine only with cal AEP, not on its own.  I was on hydrocortisone for awhile, too, and I had problems with it.  Then they tried using DHEA withit, then using Armour Extract with it.....  It never did work.  The DHEA helped some on its own.  The docs seemed also not to understand what my adrenal problem was.  I had many tests, for cushings, wilson's disease....  I was never definitively dxed.  I was dxed with othostatic hypotention and various, what I call, "non-diseases".  I think if I were to go back today (these tests were all run 10 to 20 years ago), I would likelyat least be dxed with dysautonomia (of which orthostatic hypotention is a symptom).  But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 
 
Since finding the pantethine/Cal AEP/ and CoQ10, I am usually quite fine.  I have spells when I am stressed by emfs, etc, which I treat by taking my supplements.  I should add that I no longer take 9 caps each of pantethine and calAEP daily with my meals.  I take whatever I feel I need for that day.  Some days, I take 1each/meal.  Some days, 2each/meal.  WhenI was especially bad, I took 3 each/meal plus 2 each with a large glass ofwater when I was out riding in the car and got symptoms (and sometimes I took 2 each again 20 mins later).  So, I take these according to my symptoms.  When I feel bp falling, I take it. 
 
Since you don't have a bp problem, you probably would want to work slowly up to 2 each or 3 each/meal and after 4 to 6 months, cut it slowly back downto 1 each/meal to see whether you see any change.  If no change, then I personally would not keep taking more than 1 each per meal.  (I also think CoQ10 helps anyone with adrenal problems, but I personally didn't seeimprovement with anything except sublingual CoQ10 or Carlson Labs gelcaps and I have to take it in fairly high amounts--300mg/day or 100mg/meal forawhile to see results.  I do still also take this at 100mg/day, after taking 300mg/day for 2 years.  If I am particularly stressed, I take 200 or300 mg for a couple days.  If you go to a site which deals with organsand which nutrients they use, you will find coQ10, pantethine (or B5), and calcium are the most necessary ones for the adrenals and lymphatics.  I just think we need more of these than "normal" people.) 
 
Hope this answers your questions about adrenal supplementation,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine....
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:36 PM


 



So how much pantethine is 2 caps? milligram wise I mean. I do not have blood pressure problems; just adrenal & every other organ. Oh boy. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:41 PM

 

Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Bill,
 
You recently wrote:
 
"Most recently in the journal of Pathophysiology we have the very brilliant
test of hand movements using a large movable reflector to cause standing
waves in the signal from an FM tower at 0.05 V/m. Actually many of the
subjects were not aware of any sensation, but their hands moved in
accordance with the signal."
 
Do you know of anywhere online we can read about this?  I am guessing youare talking about a subscription only journal?  Sounds very interesting.  Since my hand accident (I severed the median nerve and a small nerve bundle, etc which required surgery in May) I have unusual sensations and intense pain in my hand when around cell and microwave towers, etc.  I never had any hand symptoms before my accident.  In fact, my major EMS problem right now is my hand.  It is more highly reactive than the rest of me (but also it is probably perceived by my body as the weakest or most vulnerable body part right now, too, so that might be why???)  I have no feeling yet (touch, I mean--lots of feeling there, just not good  ;)  )  
 
With supplementation and use of the Quantum Pro, I have been able to remediate my other symptoms.  (I still react some when out riding in the car,but I can take supplements when this happens and recover quickly.  But my supplementation doesn't help my hand.)
 
Very interesting info.  Thanks, Bill,
Diane


--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Bill Bruno <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Bill Bruno <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 11:41 AM


 



I think this is a great thread... maybe someone should try to summarize it
for an
FAQ?

I think Paul makes a great point... depending on who you talk to we have 5,
6, 20...50 senses.

Sometimes I do feel EMFs directly in whatever hand or arm is closest to the
source. Often the feeling is very ephemeral.

Charles makes a good point too, that expecting someone to respond in an
arbitrary laboratory experiment is not a relevant test. What is the long
term health effect (including mental focus, etc.) is what matters.
But, even though the experiments have found something like 12 to 3, no
effect, really it only takes
1 reproducible experiment to prove the effect is real. Even 1000 negative
experiments don't negate that 1 if they were measuring something else, or
were too sloppy, etc.

William Rea's experiment was positive and I don't think anyone chose to
follow his protocol (why not?.... he's a doctor, and he's sensitive, so why
not try his protocol first?). He used square wave pulses, took precautions
to minimize chemical exposures, and only did blind tests on those who could
pass a non-blind test.

Then there was TNO, never really published, but fascinating.

Most recently in the journal of Pathophysiology we have the very brilliant
test of hand movements using a large movable reflector to cause standing
waves in the signal from an FM tower at 0.05 V/m. Actually many of the
subjects were not aware of any sensation, but their hands moved in
accordance with the signal.

Sharks, rays, lampreys, salamanders, platypus and echidnas clearly have
electrosensor organs, extremely sensitive ones. Sharks can detect a few
billionths of a volt per meter. The tri-field meter goes down to 10 volts
per meter. I've seen one detector that goes to 0.1 volts per meter. No
biologist doubts that the earliest vertebrates could sense electric field.
Clearly a human is less sensitive than a shark, because we don't have as
specialized a system. We probably are not as sensitive as a platypus. But
I don't think anyone has really characterized the frequency response of any
animal. These are hard experiments and usually the people who are good at
studying animals are not good at electronics and vice versa. The same
problem is there with studying humans.

I think if you could keep people in a very electrically quiet environment
for at least 2 days, and then expose them to very tiny signals, you'd get
really nice results. With larger exposures, you're inhibiting or damaging
the very cells that are suppose to be responding.

I think Charles' view is very practical, but hopefully some day we will be
able to recognize what Paul and the others have said as the truth.

Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lol Loni,
 
I think I am a bit off today--I am not making sense!  lol
 
I wrote you: "But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 

What I meant to say was FOR ME, I didn't think it was necessary to treat with drugs.  It is my opinion that good supplementation works well for my adrenals.  I do not mean others might not need drugs for their adrenal problems.  And what I meant when I said "unless it is absolutely necessary".....  I believe some people need drugs, but I also think this should be a last resort.  People don't eat well, over stress themselves, and then have overworked adrenals which docs treat with hormones, when all they really needed was a good rest and good nutrition.  Immediately jumping to hormones as a substitute for taking good care of yourself is not a wise decision.  Your body then becomes dependent upon that hormone from thatdrug.  Then there is no going back.  But.... there are also those who must take hormone drugs, for whom great diet and rest will not work.  If you personally must take drugs, you must take them. 
 
LOL  That said, I need a rest!  Going to get some good nutrition, Loni;which I obviously need, as I am talking and thinking in circles today,
I wish you well,
Diane

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine....
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:00 PM


 



Hi again Loni,
 
I addressed the amount in the other email.  Understand that I take pantethine only with cal AEP, not on its own.  I was on hydrocortisone for awhile, too, and I had problems with it.  Then they tried using DHEA withit, then using Armour Extract with it.....  It never did work.  The DHEA helped some on its own.  The docs seemed also not to understand what my adrenal problem was.  I had many tests, for cushings, wilson's disease....  I was never definitively dxed.  I was dxed with othostatic hypotention and various, what I call, "non-diseases" .  I think if I were togo back today (these tests were all run 10 to 20 years ago), I would likely at least be dxed with dysautonomia (of which orthostatic hypotention is asymptom).  But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 
 
Since finding the pantethine/Cal AEP/ and CoQ10, I am usually quite fine.  I have spells when I am stressed by emfs, etc, which I treat by taking my supplements.  I should add that I no longer take 9 caps each of pantethine and calAEP daily with my meals.  I take whatever I feel I need for that day.  Some days, I take 1each/meal.  Some days, 2each/meal.  WhenI was especially bad, I took 3 each/meal plus 2 each with a large glass ofwater when I was out riding in the car and got symptoms (and sometimes I took 2 each again 20 mins later).  So, I take these according to my symptoms.  When I feel bp falling, I take it. 
 
Since you don't have a bp problem, you probably would want to work slowly up to 2 each or 3 each/meal and after 4 to 6 months, cut it slowly back downto 1 each/meal to see whether you see any change.  If no change, then I personally would not keep taking more than 1 each per meal.  (I also think CoQ10 helps anyone with adrenal problems, but I personally didn't seeimprovement with anything except sublingual CoQ10 or Carlson Labs gelcaps and I have to take it in fairly high amounts--300mg/ day or 100mg/meal for awhile to see results.  I do still also take this at 100mg/day, after taking 300mg/day for 2 years.  If I am particularly stressed, I take 200 or 300 mg for a couple days.  If you go to a site which deals with organs and which nutrients they use, you will find coQ10, pantethine (or B5), and calcium are the most necessary ones for the adrenals and lymphatics. I just think we need more of these than "normal" people.) 
 
Hope this answers your questions about adrenal supplementation,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:36 PM

 

So how much pantethine is 2 caps? milligram wise I mean. I do not have blood pressure problems; just adrenal & every other organ. Oh boy. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:41 PM

 

Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 12/10/2009 19:21:21 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

Do you know of anywhere online we can read about this? I am guessing you
are talking about a subscription only journal? Sounds very interesting.
Since my hand accident (I severed the median nerve and a small nerve
bundle, etc which required surgery in May) I have unusual sensations and intense
pain in my hand when around cell and microwave towers, etc. I never had
any hand symptoms


Try Powerwatch


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This phenomenon is very well known.

In germany, they found this *phantom pains* effect with people who had
amputated hands, arms, or legs.
When they were exposed to high frequency radiation, they felt pains, as if
those amputated parts were still there.
Special shielding over the remaining body parts could help this.

So, on the body where nerves are cut, an extra sensitivity exists.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton


----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Thanks Diane, I wish I never went the drug way but I am stuck now but I still hold on to some hope I can wean someday. Loni

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine....
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 12:23 PM


 



Lol Loni,
 
I think I am a bit off today--I am not making sense!  lol
 
I wrote you: "But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 

What I meant to say was FOR ME, I didn't think it was necessary to treat with drugs.  It is my opinion that good supplementation works well for my adrenals.  I do not mean others might not need drugs for their adrenal problems.  And what I meant when I said "unless it is absolutely necessary".. ...  I believe some people need drugs, but I also think this should be a last resort.  People don't eat well, over stress themselves, and then have overworked adrenals which docs treat with hormones, when all they really needed was a good rest and good nutrition.  Immediately jumping to hormones as a substitute for taking good care of yourself is not a wise decision.  Your body then becomes dependent upon that hormone from that drug.  Then there is no going back.  But.... there are also those who must take hormone drugs, for whom great diet and rest will not work.  If you personally must take drugs, you must take them. 
 
LOL  That said, I need a rest!  Going to get some good nutrition, Loni;which I obviously need, as I am talking and thinking in circles today,
I wish you well,
Diane

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:00 PM

 

Hi again Loni,
 
I addressed the amount in the other email.  Understand that I take pantethine only with cal AEP, not on its own.  I was on hydrocortisone for awhile, too, and I had problems with it.  Then they tried using DHEA withit, then using Armour Extract with it.....  It never did work.  The DHEA helped some on its own.  The docs seemed also not to understand what my adrenal problem was.  I had many tests, for cushings, wilson's disease....  I was never definitively dxed.  I was dxed with othostatic hypotention and various, what I call, "non-diseases" .  I think if I were togo back today (these tests were all run 10 to 20 years ago), I would likely at least be dxed with dysautonomia (of which orthostatic hypotention is asymptom).  But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 
 
Since finding the pantethine/Cal AEP/ and CoQ10, I am usually quite fine.  I have spells when I am stressed by emfs, etc, which I treat by taking my supplements.  I should add that I no longer take 9 caps each of pantethine and calAEP daily with my meals.  I take whatever I feel I need for that day.  Some days, I take 1each/meal.  Some days, 2each/meal.  WhenI was especially bad, I took 3 each/meal plus 2 each with a large glass ofwater when I was out riding in the car and got symptoms (and sometimes I took 2 each again 20 mins later).  So, I take these according to my symptoms.  When I feel bp falling, I take it. 
 
Since you don't have a bp problem, you probably would want to work slowly up to 2 each or 3 each/meal and after 4 to 6 months, cut it slowly back downto 1 each/meal to see whether you see any change.  If no change, then I personally would not keep taking more than 1 each per meal.  (I also think CoQ10 helps anyone with adrenal problems, but I personally didn't seeimprovement with anything except sublingual CoQ10 or Carlson Labs gelcaps and I have to take it in fairly high amounts--300mg/ day or 100mg/meal for awhile to see results.  I do still also take this at 100mg/day, after taking 300mg/day for 2 years.  If I am particularly stressed, I take 200 or 300 mg for a couple days.  If you go to a site which deals with organs and which nutrients they use, you will find coQ10, pantethine (or B5), and calcium are the most necessary ones for the adrenals and lymphatics. I just think we need more of these than "normal" people.) 
 
Hope this answers your questions about adrenal supplementation,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:36 PM

 

So how much pantethine is 2 caps? milligram wise I mean. I do not have blood pressure problems; just adrenal & every other organ. Oh boy. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:41 PM

 

Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I already had some pantethine here so I will take but look at ingredients. Thanks, Loni

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:18 AM


 



Hi, Loni,
 
Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner.  I have had too many irons in the fire lately to do my email regularly.
 
The AEP in calcium AEP stands for "2 amino ethanol phosphate", or in other words, cal2AEP, but my brand is just called "Calcium AEP" without mentioning the 2.  (It is listed on the back contents as cal2AEP.)
 
Also if you are choosing pantethine, look for yeastfree/glutenfre e pantethine, if you are needing to watch either in your diet (pantethine almost always has yeast in it).  I mention this because alot of us with MCS don't tolerate yeast +/or gluten.
 
Also, when I began taking these, I could not tolerate them at full strength.  I repacked the pills--pulled them apart, put a small amount into an empty capsule (which you can buy separately) and then put both capsules back together.  If you don't have empty capsules you can also open the capsule and dump out most of it and put the capsule back together to take.  But, obviously, your supplements last longer if you repack them rather thandump out the excess.  It sounds complicated but, trust me, it is easy todo.  I started with about 1/8th of the contents and when I reacted well to each pantethine and cal AEP in that dose, I repacked 1/4th, then adjusted to that and then went to 1/2..... till I worked all the way up to taking 9 whole pills each/day (3 each/3meals or just with water).  The formulation I use is 300mg pantethine/1 capsule and 200mg cal2AEP+1800mg straight amino ethanol phosphate/1 capsule. 
 
I often hear people say they do not tolerate particular supplements.  I originally thought I didn't either.  Then my nutritionist told me I was possibly just reacting to the amounts I was taking and told me to repack themthis way.  I had problems taking many other supplements which I was ableto address this way too--molybdenum, selenium.... .  This is particularly the case for any supplement that detoxes the body.
 
Good luck.  I hope this works great for you if you try it,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:31 PM

 

Hi Diane,
 
I've been taking the pantothitic acid but Pantothene looks like it would bebetter. What is AEP?  My adrenals are shot & am on steroids but am trying to wean down on them but have been unsuccessful thus far due to the stress of exposure I'm living in. I did cut half a pill for my before bed dose &doing ok so far. So I'm getting 22.5 mg of hydrocortisone per day right now.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:31 PM

 

Hi, Loni,
 
Yes, for me personally it restores alot of my function (not quite the same as reducing the reaction), but it amounts to the same thing.  I *think*what the pantethine and cal AEP are doing are strengthening my adrenals, because 2 of the 3 most necessary nutrients for the adrenals are pantethenicacid and calcium (coQ10 being the third).  However, I have recently readsome research which links pantethine and calcium AEP to detoxing various toxins, too, so it is impossible for me to say for sure, knowing that, what is taking place.  What I DO know is, for me, these supplements restore my plummetinng blood pressure, so it is likely if you have this symptom it might work that way for you or others, as well, but if you do not have that symptom, then you wouldn't likely see anything palpable going on.  (Not that they couldn't possibly be addressing something else in your body.)  I don't know if others here have ever tried these supplements in the way
I take them or not.  I have certainly shared this info enough over the years. 
 
I really feel restoring deficient nutrients might totally address our allour symptoms.  The problem is finding which and how much of these we need.  And we would likely all need different nutrients, depending on our life styles, the foods we eat, and amount and types of stress we encounter.  So it isn't easy to address this, tho on the surface it might seem so. 
 
I wish you health,
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

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Yahoo! Groups Links

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Thanks Paul! 
 
Be well,  Diane
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 5:46 AM


 




In a message dated 12/10/2009 19:21:21 GMT Daylight Time,
evie15422@yahoo. com writes:

Do you know of anywhere online we can read about this? I am guessing you
are talking about a subscription only journal? Sounds very interesting.
Since my hand accident (I severed the median nerve and a small nerve
bundle, etc which required surgery in May) I have unusual sensations and intense
pain in my hand when around cell and microwave towers, etc. I never had
any hand symptoms

Try Powerwatch

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Charles, 
 
I appreciate the info. I had heard of phantom pain, but had no idea that was similar to what I was dealing with!  Of course, I still have dead nerves there, so it makes sense. 
 
Thanks again,
Diane
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:34 AM


 



This phenomenon is very well known.

In germany, they found this *phantom pains* effect with people who had
amputated hands, arms, or legs.
When they were exposed to high frequency radiation, they felt pains, as if
those amputated parts were still there.
Special shielding over the remaining body parts could help this.

So, on the body where nerves are cut, an extra sensitivity exists.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Best wishes, Loni,
 
I hope it works out well for you.  If you do try to wean off hydrocortisone tho, first start taking supplements for awhile, then very, very slowlylower your dose of hydrocortisone while slowly increasing the pantethine, calcium, and coQ10, or whatever targeted supplement you are trying to use.  An adrenal glandular, from a well controlled source (to keep outcross-over virus elements, etc) are often helpful too, Loni.  I was successful weaning off of Armour Extract and getting my thyroid working right again without it.  It took me over a year but I have been successfully off of thyroid meds since 2004.  (Before the Armour, I was on synthroid.)  It can sometimes be done, especially if you have not been on the hormone too long a time.
 
Good luck,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine....
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 12:53 PM


 



Thanks Diane, I wish I never went the drug way but I am stuck now but I still hold on to some hope I can wean someday. Loni

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 12:23 PM

 

Lol Loni,
 
I think I am a bit off today--I am not making sense!  lol
 
I wrote you: "But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 

What I meant to say was FOR ME, I didn't think it was necessary to treat with drugs.  It is my opinion that good supplementation works well for my adrenals.  I do not mean others might not need drugs for their adrenal problems.  And what I meant when I said "unless it is absolutely necessary".. ...  I believe some people need drugs, but I also think this should be a last resort.  People don't eat well, over stress themselves, and then have overworked adrenals which docs treat with hormones, when all they really needed was a good rest and good nutrition.  Immediately jumping to hormones as a substitute for taking good care of yourself is not a wise decision.  Your body then becomes dependent upon that hormone from that drug.  Then there is no going back.  But.... there are also those who must take hormone drugs, for whom great diet and rest will not work.  If you personally must take drugs, you must take them. 
 
LOL  That said, I need a rest!  Going to get some good nutrition, Loni;which I obviously need, as I am talking and thinking in circles today,
I wish you well,
Diane

--- On Mon, 10/12/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:00 PM

 

Hi again Loni,
 
I addressed the amount in the other email.  Understand that I take pantethine only with cal AEP, not on its own.  I was on hydrocortisone for awhile, too, and I had problems with it.  Then they tried using DHEA withit, then using Armour Extract with it.....  It never did work.  The DHEA helped some on its own.  The docs seemed also not to understand what my adrenal problem was.  I had many tests, for cushings, wilson's disease....  I was never definitively dxed.  I was dxed with othostatic hypotention and various, what I call, "non-diseases" .  I think if I were togo back today (these tests were all run 10 to 20 years ago), I would likely at least be dxed with dysautonomia (of which orthostatic hypotention is asymptom).  But I see it as not necessary to have a dx, since I am not interested in treating with drugs (unless it would be absolutely necessary), which, IMO, it probably isn't. 
 
Since finding the pantethine/Cal AEP/ and CoQ10, I am usually quite fine.  I have spells when I am stressed by emfs, etc, which I treat by taking my supplements.  I should add that I no longer take 9 caps each of pantethine and calAEP daily with my meals.  I take whatever I feel I need for that day.  Some days, I take 1each/meal.  Some days, 2each/meal.  WhenI was especially bad, I took 3 each/meal plus 2 each with a large glass ofwater when I was out riding in the car and got symptoms (and sometimes I took 2 each again 20 mins later).  So, I take these according to my symptoms.  When I feel bp falling, I take it. 
 
Since you don't have a bp problem, you probably would want to work slowly up to 2 each or 3 each/meal and after 4 to 6 months, cut it slowly back downto 1 each/meal to see whether you see any change.  If no change, then I personally would not keep taking more than 1 each per meal.  (I also think CoQ10 helps anyone with adrenal problems, but I personally didn't seeimprovement with anything except sublingual CoQ10 or Carlson Labs gelcaps and I have to take it in fairly high amounts--300mg/ day or 100mg/meal for awhile to see results.  I do still also take this at 100mg/day, after taking 300mg/day for 2 years.  If I am particularly stressed, I take 200 or 300 mg for a couple days.  If you go to a site which deals with organs and which nutrients they use, you will find coQ10, pantethine (or B5), and calcium are the most necessary ones for the adrenals and lymphatics. I just think we need more of these than "normal" people.) 
 
Hope this answers your questions about adrenal supplementation,
Diane

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 12:36 PM

 

So how much pantethine is 2 caps? milligram wise I mean. I do not have blood pressure problems; just adrenal & every other organ. Oh boy. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine.. ..
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:41 PM

 

Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

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Yahoo! Groups Links

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Diane,

Maybe this might explain your new pain after surgery. In general when I describe how EMS effects me I say it "attacks the weak parts of my body". I have tendentious in my right elbow and wrist, not all, but most of the times when I'm effected by EMS I feel pain in my right elbow and wrist. Last year I had a down hill skiing accident and a tennis accident. While those injuries were healing I felt pain with EMS and even after for a while when those injuries would have been considered to be healed. I use to always have problems with EMS and my stomach which has gotten much better as I've discovered I can not eat gluten and that I have other food sensitives. So maybe as your hand is healing from your injury and surgery it may be extra sensitive to EMS. I know that in the past few years I've learned that my body does not heal as fast as it use to from injury but I have just chalked that up to getting older. I wonder if being EMS and MCS slows down the
healing process?? It make sense.

Something else I was just thinking of. Many of you may already have allergy and medical emergency information in your wallet. I know I have added MCS and EMS to the list (with a short explanation). I have also told my husband if I am in the hospital and unable to communicate that he needs to make sure I am in a room at the end of the hallway away from as much electronic machinery as possible. My son was very ill a couple of years ago and in the hospital for a week. I was so sick while I was there with him at the hospital because of EMS. When he was moved out of intensive care into a room with less electronic equipment I felt better but still not well. The irony of being made sick by going to the hospital.

Take care,

jw


Jennie Wassenaar




________________________________
From: Evie <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:36:18 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects


Thanks, Charles,

I appreciate the info. I had heard of phantom pain, but had no idea that was similar to what I was dealing with! Of course, I still have dead nerves there, so it makes sense.

Thanks again,
Diane
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be> wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:34 AM



This phenomenon is very well known.

In germany, they found this *phantom pains* effect with people who had
amputated hands, arms, or legs.
When they were exposed to high frequency radiation, they felt pains, as if
those amputated parts were still there.
Special shielding over the remaining body parts could help this.

So, on the body where nerves are cut, an extra sensitivity exists.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member VerbandBaubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Jennie,
 
I hope this is the case and the pain lessens as my hand heals.  I, too, had the irony of getting ill from the hospital electronics when my husband had surgery.  I got ill from the hand surgery I had in May too, but nobody thought anything of that.  lol  Actually tho, I thought the painmeds, antibiotics they had me on, and the emf pain was worse than the actual wounds.  My digestive tract is still healing (I am gf and mcs, too.)
 
Take care,
Diane
 
 

--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Jennie Wassenaar <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Jennie Wassenaar <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] EMS Pain
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:11 PM


 



Diane,

Maybe this might explain your new pain after surgery. In general when I describe how EMS effects me I say it "attacks the weak parts of my body". I have tendentious in my right elbow and wrist, not all, but most of the times when I'm effected by EMS I feel pain in my right elbow and wrist. Last yearI had a down hill skiing accident and a tennis accident. While those injuries were healing I felt pain with EMS and even after for a while when thoseinjuries would have been considered to be healed. I use to always have problems with EMS and my stomach which has gotten much better as I've discovered I can not eat gluten and that I have other food sensitives. So maybe as your hand is healing from your injury and surgery it may be extra sensitiveto EMS. I know that in the past few years I've learned that my body does not heal as fast as it use to from injury but I have just chalked that up togetting older. I wonder if being EMS and MCS slows down the
healing process?? It make sense.

Something else I was just thinking of. Many of you may already have allergyand medical emergency information in your wallet. I know I have added MCS and EMS to the list (with a short explanation) . I have also told my husband if I am in the hospital and unable to communicate that he needs to make sure I am in a room at the end of the hallway away from as much electronic machinery as possible. My son was very ill a couple of years ago and in the hospital for a week. I was so sick while I was there with him at the hospital because of EMS. When he was moved out of intensive care into a room withless electronic equipment I felt better but still not well. The irony of being made sick by going to the hospital.

Take care,

jw

Jennie Wassenaar

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:36:18 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Thanks, Charles,

I appreciate the info. I had heard of phantom pain, but had no idea that was similar to what I was dealing with! Of course, I still have dead nerves there, so it makes sense.

Thanks again,
Diane
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be> wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:34 AM

This phenomenon is very well known.

In germany, they found this *phantom pains* effect with people who had
amputated hands, arms, or legs.
When they were exposed to high frequency radiation, they felt pains, as if
those amputated parts were still there.
Special shielding over the remaining body parts could help this.

So, on the body where nerves are cut, an extra sensitivity exists.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member VerbandBaubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 13/10/2009 20:36:46 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 6:34 AM



This phenomenon is very well known.

In germany, they found this *phantom pains* effect with people who had
amputated hands, arms, or legs.
When they were exposed to high frequency radiation, they felt pains, as if
those amputated parts were still there.
Special shielding over the remaining body parts could help this.

So, on the body where nerves are cut, an extra sensitivity exists.

Greetings,


Paul uk replies - Roger Coghill describes tghis in his book something in
the air, he talks of a phenomenon which he terms Cerebral morphogenetic
radiation which eminates from the DNA, being a double helix he sugessts that the
DNA is both a perfect transmitter and a perfect reciver ? so the signals
may still be sent and dealt with by a certain part of the brain or indeed
localised DNA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I hope this is the case and the pain lessens as my hand heals. I, too, had
>the irony of getting ill from the hospital electronics when my husband had
>surgery. I got ill from the hand surgery I had in May too, but nobody
>thought anything of that. lol Actually tho, I thought the pain meds,
>antibiotics they had me on, and the emf pain was worse than the actual
>wounds.

One "treatment" for amputee phantom pain is to wrap the stump with silver
fabric similar to this one: http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html#251
(it is also used for burn healing and diabetic skin ulcers).

I wonder if it would help in the case of ES pain.

Emil