Sleeping Better

Great Point Jennie! Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Jennie Wassenaar <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Jennie Wassenaar <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 6:42 AM


 



Hundreds of years ago scientist didn't know what germs were but they were the cause of illness. And there were a variety of degrees of illness or noneat all with in the population. I don't think they were able to understand the concept of germs and what they could do until they were scientifically able to prove germs existed. I think the same is true for us now. Scientistdon't have the tools to test for electromagnetic sensitivities and those who are effect react differently under different types of electromagnetic energy as Charlies stated. But as Paul said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a wayto convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers.

jw

Jennie Wassenaar

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "paulpjc@aol. com" <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:22:57 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

In a message dated 06/10/2009 11:49:26 GMT Daylight Time,
charles@milieuziekt es.be writes:

Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility
means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Paul Uk replies - I think you are playing devils advocat with this
statement then ?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton



----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects


Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM






Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM


 



That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:59:13 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the
exposure
has long been gone.



Paul uk replies - There is no time delay when I stand by a powerful mobile
or drive my car along the motorway and feel the waves from these devices
without any visual or other clues. The thing in question is wether its the
waves and thier many components that you feel and react to and then wether
this causes any harm, and how you raect may be multifaceted in both
physiological and phychological responses and so on..In essense the reaction time is
probably dependant on a whole plethora of factors.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

But as Paul said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of
the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the
scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they
just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers.



Paul uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of
Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual
exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to
be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary
means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS
senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not. The
word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a
largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with
quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as
good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of
Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause and
effect.

What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation)
- "feel" - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur
when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation
is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well
apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the
truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is
transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what
component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the
argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the supermarket
starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected
by the waves that cuase me to "feel" ill - Its so hard to divorce this
handy word from our ES experiences.

Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie
the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an
instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry with me), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM


 



I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be> wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pauls! Oh well put. Thanks for putting that in to perscpective! Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 2:27 AM


 




In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, loni326@yahoo. com
writes:

But as Paul said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of
the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the
scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they
just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers.

Paul uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of
Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual
exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to
be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary
means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS
senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not. The
word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a
largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with
quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as
good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of
Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause and
effect.

What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation)
- "feel" - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur
when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation
is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well
apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the
truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is
transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what
component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the
argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the supermarket
starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected
by the waves that cuase me to "feel" ill - Its so hard to divorce this
handy word from our ES experiences.

Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie
the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an
instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, Paul still refuses to accept the truth.

A hundred studies have*scientifically* proven that nobody can *feel* EMF.

There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton


----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects


Pauls! Oh well put. Thanks for putting that in to perscpective! Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 2:27 AM







In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, loni326@yahoo. com
writes:

But as Paul said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of
the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the
scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe
they
just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers.

Paul uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of
Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual
exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to
be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary
means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS
senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not.
The
word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a
largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with
quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as
good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of
Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause
and
effect.

What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation)
- "feel" - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur
when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation
is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well
apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the
truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is
transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what
component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the
argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the
supermarket
starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected
by the waves that cuase me to "feel" ill - Its so hard to divorce this
handy word from our ES experiences.

Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie
the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an
instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:

No, Paul still refuses to accept the truth.

A hundred studies have*scientificallyA hundred studies have*scientifi

There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body.



Paul uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms
due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence
of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the
body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling
? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of
cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not,
obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves,


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I go near a cell antenna & Iimmediately react/feel the radiation being put forth. If I am under significant power lines I immediately react/feel the EF being emitted. When my skin burns/stings it is a reaction to it that I feel!!!!!!
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:11 AM


 




In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time,
charles@milieuziekt es.be writes:

No, Paul still refuses to accept the truth.

A hundred studies have*scientifically A hundred studies have*scientifi

There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body.

Paul uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms
due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence
of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the
body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling
? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of
cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not,
obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM


 



Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react,
 you feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I go near a cell antenna
& I immediately react/feel the radiation being put forth. If I am under
significant power lines I immediately react/feel the EF being emitted.
 When my skin burns/stings it is a reaction to it that I feel!!!!!!
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:11 AM


 




In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time,
charles@milieuziekt es.be writes:

No, Paul still refuses to accept the truth.

A hundred studies have*scientifically A hundred studies have*scientifi

There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body.

Paul uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms
due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence
of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the
body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling
? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of
cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not,
obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Loni,
 
Yes, for me personally it restores alot of my function (not quite the same as reducing the reaction), but it amounts to the same thing.  I *think*what the pantethine and cal AEP are doing are strengthening my adrenals, because 2 of the 3 most necessary nutrients for the adrenals are pantethenicacid and calcium (coQ10 being the third).  However, I have recently readsome research which links pantethine and calcium AEP to detoxing various toxins, too, so it is impossible for me to say for sure, knowing that, what is taking place.  What I DO know is, for me, these supplements restore my plummetinng blood pressure, so it is likely if you have this symptom it might work that way for you or others, as well, but if you do not have that symptom, then you wouldn't likely see anything palpable going on.  (Not that they couldn't possibly be addressing something else in your body.)  I don't know if others here have ever tried these supplements in the way
I take them or not.  I have certainly shared this info enough over the years. 
 
I really feel restoring deficient nutrients might totally address our allour symptoms.  The problem is finding which and how much of these we need.  And we would likely all need different nutrients, depending on our life styles, the foods we eat, and amount and types of stress we encounter.  So it isn't easy to address this, tho on the surface it might seem so. 
 
I wish you health,
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM


 



Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM


 



Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The same for me, my reaction is immediate. One factor to the severity of my reaction is, what other things are/is? my body fighting at that time. When the outdoor allergies are high or I haven't slept well I react more severally to EMS. Not all the time but in general when I can take myself out of the line of fire my EMS reactions will dissipate quickly. This is not true with my MCS. For me I feel like EMS are harder than MCS because I can't just walk away. But EMS effects leave quickly while the MCS effects last longer because the chemicals remain internal so I can have that reaction until my body starts to detox the chemicals.

jw


Jennie Wassenaar






________________________________
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 4:36:16 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects



In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:59:13 GMT Daylight Time,
charles@milieuziekt es.be writes:

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *hetbitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the
exposure
has long been gone.

Paul uk replies - There is no time delay when I stand by a powerful mobile
or drive my car along the motorway and feel the waves from these devices
without any visual or other clues. The thing in question is wether its the
waves and thier many components that you feel and react to and then wether
this causes any harm, and how you raect may be multifaceted in both
physiological and phychological responses and so on..In essense the reaction time is
probably dependant on a whole plethora of factors.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think this is a great thread... maybe someone should try to summarize it
for an
FAQ?

I think Paul makes a great point... depending on who you talk to we have 5,
6, 20...50 senses.

Sometimes I do feel EMFs directly in whatever hand or arm is closest to the
source. Often the feeling is very ephemeral.

Charles makes a good point too, that expecting someone to respond in an
arbitrary laboratory experiment is not a relevant test. What is the long
term health effect (including mental focus, etc.) is what matters.
But, even though the experiments have found something like 12 to 3, no
effect, really it only takes
1 reproducible experiment to prove the effect is real. Even 1000 negative
experiments don't negate that 1 if they were measuring something else, or
were too sloppy, etc.

William Rea's experiment was positive and I don't think anyone chose to
follow his protocol (why not?.... he's a doctor, and he's sensitive, so why
not try his protocol first?). He used square wave pulses, took precautions
to minimize chemical exposures, and only did blind tests on those who could
pass a non-blind test.

Then there was TNO, never really published, but fascinating.

Most recently in the journal of Pathophysiology we have the very brilliant
test of hand movements using a large movable reflector to cause standing
waves in the signal from an FM tower at 0.05 V/m. Actually many of the
subjects were not aware of any sensation, but their hands moved in
accordance with the signal.

Sharks, rays, lampreys, salamanders, platypus and echidnas clearly have
electrosensor organs, extremely sensitive ones. Sharks can detect a few
billionths of a volt per meter. The tri-field meter goes down to 10 volts
per meter. I've seen one detector that goes to 0.1 volts per meter. No
biologist doubts that the earliest vertebrates could sense electric field.
Clearly a human is less sensitive than a shark, because we don't have as
specialized a system. We probably are not as sensitive as a platypus. But
I don't think anyone has really characterized the frequency response of any
animal. These are hard experiments and usually the people who are good at
studying animals are not good at electronics and vice versa. The same
problem is there with studying humans.

I think if you could keep people in a very electrically quiet environment
for at least 2 days, and then expose them to very tiny signals, you'd get
really nice results. With larger exposures, you're inhibiting or damaging
the very cells that are suppose to be responding.

I think Charles' view is very practical, but hopefully some day we will be
able to recognize what Paul and the others have said as the truth.

Bill


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Diane,
 
I've been taking the pantothitic acid but Pantothene looks like it would bebetter. What is AEP?  My adrenals are shot & am on steroids but am trying to wean down on them but have been unsuccessful thus far due to the stress of exposure I'm living in. I did cut half a pill for my before bed dose &doing ok so far. So I'm getting 22.5 mg of hydrocortisone per day right now.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] pantethine and calcium AEP (formerly metals)
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:31 PM


 



Hi, Loni,
 
Yes, for me personally it restores alot of my function (not quite the same as reducing the reaction), but it amounts to the same thing.  I *think*what the pantethine and cal AEP are doing are strengthening my adrenals, because 2 of the 3 most necessary nutrients for the adrenals are pantethenicacid and calcium (coQ10 being the third).  However, I have recently readsome research which links pantethine and calcium AEP to detoxing various toxins, too, so it is impossible for me to say for sure, knowing that, what is taking place.  What I DO know is, for me, these supplements restore my plummetinng blood pressure, so it is likely if you have this symptom it might work that way for you or others, as well, but if you do not have that symptom, then you wouldn't likely see anything palpable going on.  (Not that they couldn't possibly be addressing something else in your body.)  I don't know if others here have ever tried these supplements in the way
I take them or not.  I have certainly shared this info enough over the years. 
 
I really feel restoring deficient nutrients might totally address our allour symptoms.  The problem is finding which and how much of these we need.  And we would likely all need different nutrients, depending on our life styles, the foods we eat, and amount and types of stress we encounter.  So it isn't easy to address this, tho on the surface it might seem so. 
 
I wish you health,
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So how much pantethine is 2 caps? milligram wise I mean. I do not have blood pressure problems; just adrenal & every other organ. Oh boy. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Evie <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] clearing up something re pantethine....
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 3:41 PM


 



Hi again, Loni and All, 
 
I reread my initial post to make sure I hadn't said essentially the same thing before sending my reply to Loni, and I noticed I said I took 12 capsules each sometimes before seeing my bp respond.  That was a mistake.  I sometimes take up to 12 capsules before I see my bp restored to normal.  Isee my bp respond immediately.  (I start with 2 caps each pantethine andcal AEP with a large glass of water.  Wait 20 mins and take 2 each again...until my bp is normal.  Sometimes I only need to take these once or twice for my bp to normalize.
 
Diane

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:34 PM

 

Hi Diane!  so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni

--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Evie <evie15422@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 8:29 AM

 

Me too, Loni.  I can "feel" (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often.  But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during  over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy....  And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry withme), the incident will affect me over several days.  I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough.  Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond.
 
my 2 cents,
Diane

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, Loni <loni326@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Loni <loni326@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 2:30 PM

 

I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:58 AM

 

That is correct.
No feeling but reacting.

If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have
seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the
biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure
has long been gone.

Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their
body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime.
That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loni" <loni326@yahoo. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but
maybe I should say react. ???? Loni

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
wrote:

From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM

Hello Paul,

I must contradict you here.

It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to
dispute and discussion.

According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that
electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog.
Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk
electrosensibles.
All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the
elektrosmog source was on or off.
Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is
certainly not the case.
Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means;
when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure.

Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation.
Everybody should accept that.

Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation.
And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way.
And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* .

The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM
mobile phone mast.

The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or
the legs, depending on the person.

The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach.
So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda Clark, may give a relief.

A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear
anything, so there is no sound under water.
WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many
sounds under water.
Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears.
Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies.
Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes. nl
www.milieuziektes. be
www.hetbitje. nl
checked by Norton

----- Original Message -----
From: <paulpjc@aol. com>
To: <eSens@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects

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Yahoo! Groups Links

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In a message dated 08/10/2009 16:45:23 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes:

I think Charles' view is very practical, but hopefully some day we will be
able to recognize what Paul and the others have said as the truth.

Bill



Paul uk replies - Many thanks for that Bill.


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It's all good! Loni

--- On Fri, 10/9/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Metal objects
To: [hidden email]
Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 1:54 AM


 




In a message dated 08/10/2009 16:45:23 GMT Daylight Time, wbruno@gmail. com
writes:

I think Charles' view is very practical, but hopefully some day we will be
able to recognize what Paul and the others have said as the truth.

Bill

Paul uk replies - Many thanks for that Bill.

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