Re: Quantum (Products) devices

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
Hi folks:

This afternoon a list member wrote to me to recount their own
experiences with the Quantum Products devices, in light of my recent
mention of their devices in some recent posts. I have reproduced
their letter and my reply below since the dialogue may be of use to
others, but I have changed the person's name to protect their
privacy. Here goes... Joe had written to me the following letter:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vinny, I can tell you that the $300 Quantum device (at all levels from
Low to High) absolutely failed to give me relief from LCD.

What a letdown (among a zillion other letdowns in my life, such as "so-
called" radiation free LCD which... is presently
frying me.

Neither did a Diode pendant help - it's laying in my jewelry box.

Also, a guy named Derek Bishop (who practiced Kundalini) had tried many
EMF protect devices which failed to help him. He used to have a
website, but the site isn't online anymore.

I'm tired of continuous letdowns.

Joe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I replied via private email:

Hi Joe:

Thanks for your note. Yes, your experience with the Quantum Products
devices and many other devices is not at all unusual for people with
moderate to severe ES/EHS. Much as I have mentioned (and Marc has
also mentioned this many times) on the list, this is not unusual, and
does not necessarily indicate any flaw in the devices which you
tested, but rather illustrates the difficulties faced by people with
strong ES/EHS symptoms when seeking relief. Many devices or methods
which may help less-sensitive people may seem to fail rather
miserably when people who are quite ill with ES/EHS try to use them,
simply due to the fact that the ES/EHS in these cases is often a
symptom of a deeper underlying disturbance or deficiency. So, your
experience is not at all unusual, but it is not necessarily any
incdictment of the devices.

I wish you the best with your quest for greater levels of health and vitality!

with care,
--Vinny

At 05:34 PM 10/11/2006, you wrote:

>Vinny, I can tell you that the $300 Quantum device (at all levels from
>Low to High) absolutely failed to give me relief from LCD.
>
>What a letdown (among a zillion other letdowns in my life, such as "so-
>called" radiation free LCD which cost $500 and which is presently
>frying me.
>
>Neither did a Diode pendant help - it's laying in my jewelry box.
>
>Also, a guy named Derek Bishop (who practiced Kundalini) had tried many
>EMF protect devices which failed to help him. He used to have a
>website, but the site isn't online anymore.
>
>I'm tired of continuous letdowns.
>
>Joe





Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> Vinny, I can tell you that the $300 Quantum device (at all levels from
> Low to High) absolutely failed to give me relief from LCD.

One thing I can note here... I couldn't find a device that
would give me total relief from LCD monitors either. The
devices I use seem to work better on CRT monitors, and also when
using those monitors at lower resolutions (e.g., 1024x768
is harder to tolerate than 800x600).

Also, I take a pretty steady intake of antioxidants while
sitting in front of my monitor, which also extends my
tolerance. And not just any antioxidant, there are
just a few that I've found that are strong enough
to extend my tolerance for the computer (Mega-H and
Amrit being my favorites).

But if these don't work for people, I'd say that they
should look at removing metal dental work, and
trying various forms of detoxification.

Marc

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> Also, I take a pretty steady intake of antioxidants while
> sitting in front of my monitor

Oh, I suspect that my diet is also a factor in extending
my tolerance for EMF. For example, the first thing I
eat every day is an avocado! Sounds wierd, but I think
it helps my EMF tolerance... oatmeal also seems quite
helpful (even as an oatmeal/raisin cookie!)

Also, anyone who says that they are being "fried" (as
in sunburnt) by their computer monitor is in serious
need of either antioxidants or essential fatty acids
(for the latter, I use a borage oil skin lotion from
the health food store, and apply it to my face, where
the "frying" usually occurs)

Marc

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi folks:

Much as I have indicated in previous posts, I strongly agree with
Marc's comments re the importance of supplementing the diet with
antioxidants and also ensuring that your body is getting an adequate
intake of essential fatty acids. Even for people who are not
noticeably ES, it is a fact that most people living in modern Western
cultures, or Asians eating Westernized diets (i.e., urban dwellers of
large cities in China and Japan) are eating diets which are GROSSLY
deficient in antioxidants, minerals, trace elements and all kinds of
essential fatty acids (i.e., good fats), and which are at the same
time GROSSLY overloaded with oxidative radicals and with substances
which produce oxidative free radicals in the body once the body is
forced to ingest them.

This is why I often say to people with chornic ills that if I were in
their shoes, I would be sure ingest:
* lots of supplemental dietary antioxidants, including vitamin C,
MegaH, EM liquid, and selenium (organic forms only)
* calcium, other major elements, and trace elements, and, of
course, selenium, as mentioned above.
* good sources of raw plant fats (i.e., avocado or durian or
coconut) and good sources of raw animal fat (i.e., fatty raw meat,
fatty raw fish, raw butter, etc.)
* lots of important supplemental trace elements such as lead,
beryllium, mercury, plutonium, fluorine, uranium, thorium and
radium... wait a minute! ...what the heck did I just write? ...oh...
ohhhh.... uh oh... you may wish to ignore this bullet item! I have a
feeling I may have gone a bit overboard on this one, but I am not
sure where! >:-} :-)
* and possibly investigate detoxification products such as the
Bioray NDF formula (although EM alone seems to work well for many people...)
with care,
--Vinny

At 07:03 PM 10/11/2006, you wrote:

> > Vinny, I can tell you that the $300 Quantum device (at all levels from
> > Low to High) absolutely failed to give me relief from LCD.
>
>One thing I can note here... I couldn't find a device that
>would give me total relief from LCD monitors either. The
>devices I use seem to work better on CRT monitors, and also when
>using those monitors at lower resolutions (e.g., 1024x768
>is harder to tolerate than 800x600).
>
>Also, I take a pretty steady intake of antioxidants while
>sitting in front of my monitor, which also extends my
>tolerance. And not just any antioxidant, there are
>just a few that I've found that are strong enough
>to extend my tolerance for the computer (Mega-H and
>Amrit being my favorites).
>
>But if these don't work for people, I'd say that they
>should look at removing metal dental work, and
>trying various forms of detoxification.
>
>Marc
>


Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

charles-4
Hello,

here is my opinion.

The readiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
The biological working of our body is another.

Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation are
NOT doing that.
I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources.

What many *things* can do, is make an improvement of your immune system.
And when your damaged immune system gets better, of course you will feel
much better, and are the effects of the radiation sources less.

So, the many advices in diet and detoxification are the first important
things to do.
Detoxification of the enormous amount of heavy-metals in our body does
improve a lot.
(We use for that an ionic foot spa).

And then, all the gadgets will work much better.

So, be aware, that the gadgets do nothing to the elektrosmog sources, but
they only work on your own body, and its immune system.

That is also the reason, why with the same radiation levels, one person
benefits more than another person, because the immune systems differ.

100 % healthy people are not electrosensible.
Only people with a damaged immune system may become, or are already
electrosensible.

People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with uncoped youth
traumas.
These may damage the immune system also.

So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as possible.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 03:05
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices


> Hi folks:
>
> Much as I have indicated in previous posts, I strongly agree with
> Marc's comments re the importance of supplementing the diet with
> antioxidants and also ensuring that your body is getting an adequate
> intake of essential fatty acids. Even for people who are not
> noticeably ES, it is a fact that most people living in modern Western
> cultures, or Asians eating Westernized diets (i.e., urban dwellers of
> large cities in China and Japan) are eating diets which are GROSSLY
> deficient in antioxidants, minerals, trace elements and all kinds of
> essential fatty acids (i.e., good fats), and which are at the same
> time GROSSLY overloaded with oxidative radicals and with substances
> which produce oxidative free radicals in the body once the body is
> forced to ingest them.
>
> This is why I often say to people with chornic ills that if I were in
> their shoes, I would be sure ingest:
> * lots of supplemental dietary antioxidants, including vitamin C,
> MegaH, EM liquid, and selenium (organic forms only)
> * calcium, other major elements, and trace elements, and, of
> course, selenium, as mentioned above.
> * good sources of raw plant fats (i.e., avocado or durian or
> coconut) and good sources of raw animal fat (i.e., fatty raw meat,
> fatty raw fish, raw butter, etc.)
> * lots of important supplemental trace elements such as lead,
> beryllium, mercury, plutonium, fluorine, uranium, thorium and
> radium... wait a minute! ...what the heck did I just write? ...oh...
> ohhhh.... uh oh... you may wish to ignore this bullet item! I have a
> feeling I may have gone a bit overboard on this one, but I am not
> sure where! >:-} :-)
> * and possibly investigate detoxification products such as the
> Bioray NDF formula (although EM alone seems to work well for many
> people...)
> with care,
> --Vinny
>
> At 07:03 PM 10/11/2006, you wrote:
>> > Vinny, I can tell you that the $300 Quantum device (at all levels from
>> > Low to High) absolutely failed to give me relief from LCD.
>>
>>One thing I can note here... I couldn't find a device that
>>would give me total relief from LCD monitors either. The
>>devices I use seem to work better on CRT monitors, and also when
>>using those monitors at lower resolutions (e.g., 1024x768
>>is harder to tolerate than 800x600).
>>
>>Also, I take a pretty steady intake of antioxidants while
>>sitting in front of my monitor, which also extends my
>>tolerance. And not just any antioxidant, there are
>>just a few that I've found that are strong enough
>>to extend my tolerance for the computer (Mega-H and
>>Amrit being my favorites).
>>
>>But if these don't work for people, I'd say that they
>>should look at removing metal dental work, and
>>trying various forms of detoxification.
>>
>>Marc
>>
>
>
> Vinny Pinto
> [hidden email]
>
> phone 301-694-1249
>
> To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
> http://www.vinnypinto.us
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
Hi Charles:

Thanks for your note. . . You wrote, in part, in your recent letter
(below) the following:
~~~~~~~~~~~
The radiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
The biological working of our body is another.

Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation are
NOT doing that.
I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources...
~~~~~~~~~~~

I wish to offer here a bit of fine-tuning -- from my perspective as
an electronics engineer, scientist and intuitive -- as we seem to be
touching upon a matter which causes some considerable confusion for
many people with ES/EHs and also for many otherwise-healthy people
who are interesting in acquiring "electro-protective" devices as a
prophylactic measure to ensure continued health and vitality. And,
there is even some confusion (perhaps deliberate!) about this matter
of "reducing EMF fields" on some (but only a few) of the vendor
websites which market these products.

Charles, I agree fully with you that NONE of the great many
protective field effect or area treatment devices available on the
market actually reduce readings of the magnitude (i.e., strength) of
E-fields, H-field or B-field (magnetic field), or EMF fields on EMF
survey meters (i.e., single-field meters, EMF meters, trifield
meters, magnetometers, spectrum analyzers, etc.) Of course, it IS
true that conductive EMF shielding fabrics and metals -- or a
complete Faraday cage (!!!!) -- as sold by some vendors, can indeed
lower such measured field strengths greatly, but for the purposes of
this letter, we are not focusing on such passive shielding tools, but
rather only on field effect or area treatment devices which claim to
somehow ameliorate some or all of the harmful effects of EMF fields.

So, the reality -- much as I explain at some length about my Coherent
Space Quantum Coherence devices on my website -- is that these area
treatment devices do NOT reduce the magnitude (i.e., strength) of the
actual electric (E field), magnetic (H field or B field) or EMF field
itself, but rather, they claim to remove some or all of a subtle
quantum-level incoherent chaotic "noise" which often rides on (i.e.,
is superimposed upon, or accompanies) such fields produced by manmade
systems (i.e., the power grid, the landline phone grid, the cellular
network grid) or devices (i.e., electrical and electronic devices,
motors, etc.) Indeed, I note that a few vendors/producers of such
products -- including the Quantum Products sites (i.e.,
www.quantumproducts.com and www.natural-stress-reduction.com and the
explanations by Dr. Srivinisan and Dr. Rubik on the Clarus websites
--actually employ a language very similar to mine when describing the
possibly-harmful subtle effects of EMF fields. So, the successful
devices in this field -- that is, the ones which do succeed in part
or in full in removing this harmful chaotic quantum noise from the
manmade EMF -- DO NOT actually reduce the magnitude of the electric
fields, magnetic fields or EMF fields in themselves, but RATHER, they
reduce or eliminate the incoherent chaotic quantum-level (i.e.,
subtle energy) noise which often "rides on" such fields from manmade
systems and devices. Since this chaotic quantum-level noise often
produces what I will call "perturbations" or "disturbances" in living
organisms (i.e., people, cats, dogs, microbes, hapless space aliens,
etc.) and in manmade electronic equipment and systems, we will --
when we use one of the better area treatment devices -- often see
improvements in the viability, vitality and functioning of people,
dogs, cats, hapless space aliens and electronic equipment when they
are within the effective radius of treatment range of such a device.

And yes -- and this is where I address Charles's assertion that these
area treatment devices also affect people directly -- if and when our
bodies are within range of such protective devices (ahem... the ones
which work effectively, that is...!), the devices may also have a
similar cohering effect upon the quantum-level processes (i.e.,
subtle energies) in our bodies as well. And, this is where matters
can get a bit sticky, for... if the body of a person or animal has a
lot of accumulated chaotic incoherent subtle energies, along with
accrued damage from exposure to such incoherent energies over many
years, then, as these bodily energies are gradually cohered, the
person or animal may -- from my perspective -- experience some
temproary and interim cleansing symptoms, aka detoxification
symptoms, such as headaches, flu symptoms, rashes, frequent
urination, buring urine, increased body odor, diarrhea, etc., and at
times, these temporary symptoms may become rather irritating or
annoying in themselves!

Thus, we end up with the paradox that many of these protective field
effect devices appear to work quite well for persons who are already
in a good state of health and coherence, i.e., leargely-healthy
persons with only very very mild negative responses to EMF, but these
same devices may appear -- at first glance -- to be grossly
ineffective or even harmful (i.e., due to the sudden onset of
cleansing symptoms or detox symptoms) for users who have moderate to
strong ES/EHS or MCS or other chronic diseases. This is, of course,
due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not only
have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which tend to
produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact that
they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent fields,
they will also often experience some very unpleasant temporary
cleansing (detox) reactions when exposed to these devices!

And, to some degree, since none of us are perfectly healthy, and
since ALL of us who live in modern society bear some degree of levels
of inner toxicity and accumulated incoherent quantum-level
information, due to (ingestion of) modern food and water and due to
chronic lifetme exposure to manmade EMF and the chaotic fields riding
upon it, almost all of us will at times experience at least brief and
transient minor cleansing symptoms when first exposed to such
"coherence" devices which help to ameliorate the incoherent choatic
quantum-level "noise" which accompanies most manmade EMF (and even
some so-called geopathic fields from natural sources as well.)

with care,
--Vinny

At 04:12 AM 10/12/2006, you wrote:

>Hello,
>
>here is my opinion.
>
>The readiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
>The biological working of our body is another.
>
>Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation are
>NOT doing that.
>I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
>alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources.
>
>What many *things* can do, is make an improvement of your immune system.
>And when your damaged immune system gets better, of course you will feel
>much better, and are the effects of the radiation sources less.
>
>So, the many advices in diet and detoxification are the first important
>things to do.
>Detoxification of the enormous amount of heavy-metals in our body does
>improve a lot.
>(We use for that an ionic foot spa).
>
>And then, all the gadgets will work much better.
>
>So, be aware, that the gadgets do nothing to the elektrosmog sources, but
>they only work on your own body, and its immune system.
>
>That is also the reason, why with the same radiation levels, one person
>benefits more than another person, because the immune systems differ.
>
>100 % healthy people are not electrosensible.
>Only people with a damaged immune system may become, or are already
>electrosensible.
>
>People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with uncoped youth
>traumas.
>These may damage the immune system also.
>
>So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as possible.
>
>Greetings,
>Charles Claessens
>member Verband Baubiologie
>www.milieuziektes.nl
>www.milieuziektes.be
>www.hetbitje.nl
>checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
>To: <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 03:05
>Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices
>
>
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > Much as I have indicated in previous posts, I strongly agree with
> > Marc's comments re the importance of supplementing the diet with
> > antioxidants and also ensuring that your body is getting an adequate
> > intake of essential fatty acids. Even for people who are not
> > noticeably ES, it is a fact that most people living in modern Western
> > cultures, or Asians eating Westernized diets (i.e., urban dwellers of
> > large cities in China and Japan) are eating diets which are GROSSLY
> > deficient in antioxidants, minerals, trace elements and all kinds of
> > essential fatty acids (i.e., good fats), and which are at the same
> > time GROSSLY overloaded with oxidative radicals and with substances
> > which produce oxidative free radicals in the body once the body is
> > forced to ingest them.
> >
> > This is why I often say to people with chornic ills that if I were in
> > their shoes, I would be sure ingest:
> > * lots of supplemental dietary antioxidants, including vitamin C,
> > MegaH, EM liquid, and selenium (organic forms only)
> > * calcium, other major elements, and trace elements, and, of
> > course, selenium, as mentioned above.
> > * good sources of raw plant fats (i.e., avocado or durian or
> > coconut) and good sources of raw animal fat (i.e., fatty raw meat,
> > fatty raw fish, raw butter, etc.)
> > * lots of important supplemental trace elements such as lead,
> > beryllium, mercury, plutonium, fluorine, uranium, thorium and
> > radium... wait a minute! ...what the heck did I just write? ...oh...
> > ohhhh.... uh oh... you may wish to ignore this bullet item! I have a
> > feeling I may have gone a bit overboard on this one, but I am not
> > sure where! >:-} :-)
> > * and possibly investigate detoxification products such as the
> > Bioray NDF formula (although EM alone seems to work well for many
> > people...)
> > with care,
> > --Vinny


Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

charles-4
Hello Vinny,

of course I fully agree with you.

I wanted to make my point that one has to differentiate between radiation
sources on one side, and the reacting human body on the other side.
Some people do mix them together, and i my opinion that is not right.

Now, about the mumbo jumbo of all these machines.
It is quite simple.
The answer are longitudinal waves.
Tesla described them 100 years ago, but we still do not have meters to
measure them.
But they still exist.
That they are effective can be seen at:
http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina164b.html
where the wheat-seed-water-test has been described.
(As done by Dietrich Gruen M.D., the developer of the BioProtect card)

Longitudinal waves go right through shieldings.
They do have an impact on the vortexes around our body.
Those vortexes can run to the right or to the left.
And longitudinal waves do have an influence on them.

Because most *scientists* do not know about them, they do not want to
discuss this.

But longitudinal waves do play an important part in Vinny's machine.
I am sure of that.
Although it cannot be proven momentarily.

Longitudinal waves can be charged by positive as well as negative
information.
When they pass through a shielding material, it can be changed.

I have found, and measured, that some materials can suck up the HF
radiation, store it till a saturation point, and then start emitting them
over time. (I mean several years.)

Silvio Hellemann wrote an intersting book: *Ständig unter Strom. Handbuch
für Elektrosensible*.
In this book, he described several gadgets and machines which helped him
with his electrosensibility.
I asked him which gadget he found the best and could recommend me.
He wrote back; *None, because they charge themselves and start emitting
after a while!*

So I would say that we call all those so-called *anti-elektrosmog* gadgets
just simply *immune boosters*.

Because we have found that by boosting the immune system (by discharging
heavy-metals for instance) the level of sensitivity to elektrosmog goes down
enormously.
Discharging heavy-metals with pills takes a long time.
With other means, for instance an ionic footbath, it goes much quicker.

So, we are two of a kind, as they say.
I mean the same kind of understanding.

I am looking into my question: *What makes electrosensibles tick?*
And I am very pissed, to see that the dutch government is willing to spend
16 million Euro in research of EM fields and health, but all they want
researched are psychological factors.
See my english issue of *het bitje* 1/2 October 2006.


Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 15:41
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices


> Hi Charles:
>
> Thanks for your note. . . You wrote, in part, in your recent letter
> (below) the following:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
> The radiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
> The biological working of our body is another.
>
> Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation
> are
> NOT doing that.
> I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
> alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources...
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I wish to offer here a bit of fine-tuning -- from my perspective as
> an electronics engineer, scientist and intuitive -- as we seem to be
> touching upon a matter which causes some considerable confusion for
> many people with ES/EHs and also for many otherwise-healthy people
> who are interesting in acquiring "electro-protective" devices as a
> prophylactic measure to ensure continued health and vitality. And,
> there is even some confusion (perhaps deliberate!) about this matter
> of "reducing EMF fields" on some (but only a few) of the vendor
> websites which market these products.
>
> Charles, I agree fully with you that NONE of the great many
> protective field effect or area treatment devices available on the
> market actually reduce readings of the magnitude (i.e., strength) of
> E-fields, H-field or B-field (magnetic field), or EMF fields on EMF
> survey meters (i.e., single-field meters, EMF meters, trifield
> meters, magnetometers, spectrum analyzers, etc.) Of course, it IS
> true that conductive EMF shielding fabrics and metals -- or a
> complete Faraday cage (!!!!) -- as sold by some vendors, can indeed
> lower such measured field strengths greatly, but for the purposes of
> this letter, we are not focusing on such passive shielding tools, but
> rather only on field effect or area treatment devices which claim to
> somehow ameliorate some or all of the harmful effects of EMF fields.
>
> So, the reality -- much as I explain at some length about my Coherent
> Space Quantum Coherence devices on my website -- is that these area
> treatment devices do NOT reduce the magnitude (i.e., strength) of the
> actual electric (E field), magnetic (H field or B field) or EMF field
> itself, but rather, they claim to remove some or all of a subtle
> quantum-level incoherent chaotic "noise" which often rides on (i.e.,
> is superimposed upon, or accompanies) such fields produced by manmade
> systems (i.e., the power grid, the landline phone grid, the cellular
> network grid) or devices (i.e., electrical and electronic devices,
> motors, etc.) Indeed, I note that a few vendors/producers of such
> products -- including the Quantum Products sites (i.e.,
> www.quantumproducts.com and www.natural-stress-reduction.com and the
> explanations by Dr. Srivinisan and Dr. Rubik on the Clarus websites
> --actually employ a language very similar to mine when describing the
> possibly-harmful subtle effects of EMF fields. So, the successful
> devices in this field -- that is, the ones which do succeed in part
> or in full in removing this harmful chaotic quantum noise from the
> manmade EMF -- DO NOT actually reduce the magnitude of the electric
> fields, magnetic fields or EMF fields in themselves, but RATHER, they
> reduce or eliminate the incoherent chaotic quantum-level (i.e.,
> subtle energy) noise which often "rides on" such fields from manmade
> systems and devices. Since this chaotic quantum-level noise often
> produces what I will call "perturbations" or "disturbances" in living
> organisms (i.e., people, cats, dogs, microbes, hapless space aliens,
> etc.) and in manmade electronic equipment and systems, we will --
> when we use one of the better area treatment devices -- often see
> improvements in the viability, vitality and functioning of people,
> dogs, cats, hapless space aliens and electronic equipment when they
> are within the effective radius of treatment range of such a device.
>
> And yes -- and this is where I address Charles's assertion that these
> area treatment devices also affect people directly -- if and when our
> bodies are within range of such protective devices (ahem... the ones
> which work effectively, that is...!), the devices may also have a
> similar cohering effect upon the quantum-level processes (i.e.,
> subtle energies) in our bodies as well. And, this is where matters
> can get a bit sticky, for... if the body of a person or animal has a
> lot of accumulated chaotic incoherent subtle energies, along with
> accrued damage from exposure to such incoherent energies over many
> years, then, as these bodily energies are gradually cohered, the
> person or animal may -- from my perspective -- experience some
> temproary and interim cleansing symptoms, aka detoxification
> symptoms, such as headaches, flu symptoms, rashes, frequent
> urination, buring urine, increased body odor, diarrhea, etc., and at
> times, these temporary symptoms may become rather irritating or
> annoying in themselves!
>
> Thus, we end up with the paradox that many of these protective field
> effect devices appear to work quite well for persons who are already
> in a good state of health and coherence, i.e., leargely-healthy
> persons with only very very mild negative responses to EMF, but these
> same devices may appear -- at first glance -- to be grossly
> ineffective or even harmful (i.e., due to the sudden onset of
> cleansing symptoms or detox symptoms) for users who have moderate to
> strong ES/EHS or MCS or other chronic diseases. This is, of course,
> due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not only
> have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which tend to
> produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact that
> they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent fields,
> they will also often experience some very unpleasant temporary
> cleansing (detox) reactions when exposed to these devices!
>
> And, to some degree, since none of us are perfectly healthy, and
> since ALL of us who live in modern society bear some degree of levels
> of inner toxicity and accumulated incoherent quantum-level
> information, due to (ingestion of) modern food and water and due to
> chronic lifetme exposure to manmade EMF and the chaotic fields riding
> upon it, almost all of us will at times experience at least brief and
> transient minor cleansing symptoms when first exposed to such
> "coherence" devices which help to ameliorate the incoherent choatic
> quantum-level "noise" which accompanies most manmade EMF (and even
> some so-called geopathic fields from natural sources as well.)
>
> with care,
> --Vinny
>
> At 04:12 AM 10/12/2006, you wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>here is my opinion.
>>
>>The readiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
>>The biological working of our body is another.
>>
>>Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation
>>are
>>NOT doing that.
>>I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
>>alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources.
>>
>>What many *things* can do, is make an improvement of your immune system.
>>And when your damaged immune system gets better, of course you will feel
>>much better, and are the effects of the radiation sources less.
>>
>>So, the many advices in diet and detoxification are the first important
>>things to do.
>>Detoxification of the enormous amount of heavy-metals in our body does
>>improve a lot.
>>(We use for that an ionic foot spa).
>>
>>And then, all the gadgets will work much better.
>>
>>So, be aware, that the gadgets do nothing to the elektrosmog sources, but
>>they only work on your own body, and its immune system.
>>
>>That is also the reason, why with the same radiation levels, one person
>>benefits more than another person, because the immune systems differ.
>>
>>100 % healthy people are not electrosensible.
>>Only people with a damaged immune system may become, or are already
>>electrosensible.
>>
>>People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with uncoped youth
>>traumas.
>>These may damage the immune system also.
>>
>>So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as possible.
>>
>>Greetings,
>>Charles Claessens
>>member Verband Baubiologie
>>www.milieuziektes.nl
>>www.milieuziektes.be
>>www.hetbitje.nl
>>checked by Norton Antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
>>To: <[hidden email]>
>>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 03:05
>>Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices
>>
>>
>> > Hi folks:
>> >
>> > Much as I have indicated in previous posts, I strongly agree with
>> > Marc's comments re the importance of supplementing the diet with
>> > antioxidants and also ensuring that your body is getting an adequate
>> > intake of essential fatty acids. Even for people who are not
>> > noticeably ES, it is a fact that most people living in modern Western
>> > cultures, or Asians eating Westernized diets (i.e., urban dwellers of
>> > large cities in China and Japan) are eating diets which are GROSSLY
>> > deficient in antioxidants, minerals, trace elements and all kinds of
>> > essential fatty acids (i.e., good fats), and which are at the same
>> > time GROSSLY overloaded with oxidative radicals and with substances
>> > which produce oxidative free radicals in the body once the body is
>> > forced to ingest them.
>> >
>> > This is why I often say to people with chornic ills that if I were in
>> > their shoes, I would be sure ingest:
>> > * lots of supplemental dietary antioxidants, including vitamin C,
>> > MegaH, EM liquid, and selenium (organic forms only)
>> > * calcium, other major elements, and trace elements, and, of
>> > course, selenium, as mentioned above.
>> > * good sources of raw plant fats (i.e., avocado or durian or
>> > coconut) and good sources of raw animal fat (i.e., fatty raw meat,
>> > fatty raw fish, raw butter, etc.)
>> > * lots of important supplemental trace elements such as lead,
>> > beryllium, mercury, plutonium, fluorine, uranium, thorium and
>> > radium... wait a minute! ...what the heck did I just write? ...oh...
>> > ohhhh.... uh oh... you may wish to ignore this bullet item! I have a
>> > feeling I may have gone a bit overboard on this one, but I am not
>> > sure where! >:-} :-)
>> > * and possibly investigate detoxification products such as the
>> > Bioray NDF formula (although EM alone seems to work well for many
>> > people...)
>> > with care,
>> > --Vinny
>
>
> Vinny Pinto
> [hidden email]
>
> phone 301-694-1249
>
> To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
> http://www.vinnypinto.us
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
Hi Charles:

Yes, I agree with your points about the nature of
most human complaints/effects from electrosmog,
and I agree that the greatest cause of these
effects is what you call "longitudinal waves" and
what I call "quantum-level inocherent chaotic
noise", and that they are the same. Some folks,
including Glenn Rein and Dr. Beverly Rick, and
Dr. Srivisnan, choose to call these fields
"subtle eneriges", and some choose to call them
"scalar fields", but I tend to really dislike to
use the latter term, if only becuase it has been
so badly overused and abused by so many
self-appionted "experts" (many of whom I feel are
quite deluded) over the past 20 years.

BTW, the quantum cohering materials/substances
used in my devices and also in a few lines of
devices from other vendors are NOT absorptive in
nature, in that they do not absorb harmful subtle
energies or longitudinal fields, but rather, they
appear to act as what I will call transformers or
transmuters -- they seem to transmute the ambient
chaotic fields into coherent fields, and thus,
since they are not acting as sponges (i.e.,
absorbers) they do not ever become "saturated".

with care,
--Vinny

At 11:05 AM 10/12/2006, you wrote:

>Hello Vinny,
>
>of course I fully agree with you.
>
>I wanted to make my point that one has to differentiate between radiation
>sources on one side, and the reacting human body on the other side.
>Some people do mix them together, and i my opinion that is not right.
>
>Now, about the mumbo jumbo of all these machines.
>It is quite simple.
>The answer are longitudinal waves.
>Tesla described them 100 years ago, but we still do not have meters to
>measure them.
>But they still exist.
>That they are effective can be seen at:
>http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina164b.html
>where the wheat-seed-water-test has been described.
>(As done by Dietrich Gruen M.D., the developer of the BioProtect card)
>
>Longitudinal waves go right through shieldings.
>They do have an impact on the vortexes around our body.
>Those vortexes can run to the right or to the left.
>And longitudinal waves do have an influence on them.
>
>Because most *scientists* do not know about them, they do not want to
>discuss this.
>
>But longitudinal waves do play an important part in Vinny's machine.
>I am sure of that.
>Although it cannot be proven momentarily.
>
>Longitudinal waves can be charged by positive as well as negative
>information.
>When they pass through a shielding material, it can be changed.
>
>I have found, and measured, that some materials can suck up the HF
>radiation, store it till a saturation point, and then start emitting them
>over time. (I mean several years.)
>
>Silvio Hellemann wrote an intersting book: *Ständig unter Strom. Handbuch
>für Elektrosensible*.
>In this book, he described several gadgets and machines which helped him
>with his electrosensibility.
>I asked him which gadget he found the best and could recommend me.
>He wrote back; *None, because they charge themselves and start emitting
>after a while!*
>
>So I would say that we call all those so-called *anti-elektrosmog* gadgets
>just simply *immune boosters*.
>
>Because we have found that by boosting the immune system (by discharging
>heavy-metals for instance) the level of sensitivity to elektrosmog goes down
>enormously.
>Discharging heavy-metals with pills takes a long time.
>With other means, for instance an ionic footbath, it goes much quicker.
>
>So, we are two of a kind, as they say.
>I mean the same kind of understanding.
>
>I am looking into my question: *What makes electrosensibles tick?*
>And I am very pissed, to see that the dutch government is willing to spend
>16 million Euro in research of EM fields and health, but all they want
>researched are psychological factors.
>See my english issue of *het bitje* 1/2 October 2006.
>
>
>Greetings,
>Charles Claessens
>member Verband Baubiologie
>www.milieuziektes.nl
>www.milieuziektes.be
>www.hetbitje.nl
>checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
>To: <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 15:41
>Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices
>
>
> > Hi Charles:
> >
> > Thanks for your note. . . You wrote, in part, in your recent letter
> > (below) the following:
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~
> > The radiation of elektrosmog sources is one thing.
> > The biological working of our body is another.
> >
> > Many *things* which are claimed to neutralize or harmonize the radiation
> > are
> > NOT doing that.
> > I have investigated many *things*, but measurements did not show any
> > alteration in the radiation levels of the elektrosmog sources...
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > I wish to offer here a bit of fine-tuning -- from my perspective as
> > an electronics engineer, scientist and intuitive -- as we seem to be
> > touching upon a matter which causes some considerable confusion for
> > many people with ES/EHs and also for many otherwise-healthy people
> > who are interesting in acquiring "electro-protective" devices as a
> > prophylactic measure to ensure continued health and vitality. And,
> > there is even some confusion (perhaps deliberate!) about this matter
> > of "reducing EMF fields" on some (but only a few) of the vendor
> > websites which market these products.
> >
> > Charles, I agree fully with you that NONE of the great many
> > protective field effect or area treatment devices available on the
> > market actually reduce readings of the magnitude (i.e., strength) of
> > E-fields, H-field or B-field (magnetic field), or EMF fields on EMF
> > survey meters (i.e., single-field meters, EMF meters, trifield
> > meters, magnetometers, spectrum analyzers, etc.) Of course, it IS
> > true that conductive EMF shielding fabrics and metals -- or a
> > complete Faraday cage (!!!!) -- as sold by some vendors, can indeed
> > lower such measured field strengths greatly, but for the purposes of
> > this letter, we are not focusing on such passive shielding tools, but
> > rather only on field effect or area treatment devices which claim to
> > somehow ameliorate some or all of the harmful effects of EMF fields.
> >
> > So, the reality -- much as I explain at some length about my Coherent
> > Space Quantum Coherence devices on my website -- is that these area
> > treatment devices do NOT reduce the magnitude (i.e., strength) of the
> > actual electric (E field), magnetic (H field or B field) or EMF field
> > itself, but rather, they claim to remove some or all of a subtle
> > quantum-level incoherent chaotic "noise" which often rides on (i.e.,
> > is superimposed upon, or accompanies) such fields produced by manmade
> > systems (i.e., the power grid, the landline phone grid, the cellular
> > network grid) or devices (i.e., electrical and electronic devices,
> > motors, etc.) Indeed, I note that a few vendors/producers of such
> > products -- including the Quantum Products sites (i.e.,
> > www.quantumproducts.com and www.natural-stress-reduction.com and the
> > explanations by Dr. Srivinisan and Dr. Rubik on the Clarus websites
> > --actually employ a language very similar to mine when describing the
> > possibly-harmful subtle effects of EMF fields. So, the successful
> > devices in this field -- that is, the ones which do succeed in part
> > or in full in removing this harmful chaotic quantum noise from the
> > manmade EMF -- DO NOT actually reduce the magnitude of the electric
> > fields, magnetic fields or EMF fields in themselves, but RATHER, they
> > reduce or eliminate the incoherent chaotic quantum-level (i.e.,
> > subtle energy) noise which often "rides on" such fields from manmade
> > systems and devices. Since this chaotic quantum-level noise often
> > produces what I will call "perturbations" or "disturbances" in living
> > organisms (i.e., people, cats, dogs, microbes, hapless space aliens,
> > etc.) and in manmade electronic equipment and systems, we will --
> > when we use one of the better area treatment devices -- often see
> > improvements in the viability, vitality and functioning of people,
> > dogs, cats, hapless space aliens and electronic equipment when they
> > are within the effective radius of treatment range of such a device.
> >
> > And yes -- and this is where I address Charles's assertion that these
> > area treatment devices also affect people directly -- if and when our
> > bodies are within range of such protective devices (ahem... the ones
> > which work effectively, that is...!), the devices may also have a
> > similar cohering effect upon the quantum-level processes (i.e.,
> > subtle energies) in our bodies as well. And, this is where matters
> > can get a bit sticky, for... if the body of a person or animal has a
> > lot of accumulated chaotic incoherent subtle energies, along with
> > accrued damage from exposure to such incoherent energies over many
> > years, then, as these bodily energies are gradually cohered, the
> > person or animal may -- from my perspective -- experience some
> > temproary and interim cleansing symptoms, aka detoxification
> > symptoms, such as headaches, flu symptoms, rashes, frequent
> > urination, buring urine, increased body odor, diarrhea, etc., and at
> > times, these temporary symptoms may become rather irritating or
> > annoying in themselves!
> >
> > Thus, we end up with the paradox that many of these protective field
> > effect devices appear to work quite well for persons who are already
> > in a good state of health and coherence, i.e., leargely-healthy
> > persons with only very very mild negative responses to EMF, but these
> > same devices may appear -- at first glance -- to be grossly
> > ineffective or even harmful (i.e., due to the sudden onset of
> > cleansing symptoms or detox symptoms) for users who have moderate to
> > strong ES/EHS or MCS or other chronic diseases. This is, of course,
> > due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not only
> > have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which tend to
> > produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact that
> > they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent fields,
> > they will also often experience some very unpleasant temporary
> > cleansing (detox) reactions when exposed to these devices!
> >
> > And, to some degree, since none of us are perfectly healthy, and
> > since ALL of us who live in modern society bear some degree of levels
> > of inner toxicity and accumulated incoherent quantum-level
> > information, due to (ingestion of) modern food and water and due to
> > chronic lifetme exposure to manmade EMF and the chaotic fields riding
> > upon it, almost all of us will at times experience at least brief and
> > transient minor cleansing symptoms when first exposed to such
> > "coherence" devices which help to ameliorate the incoherent choatic
> > quantum-level "noise" which accompanies most manmade EMF (and even
> > some so-called geopathic fields from natural sources as well.)
> >
> > with care,
> > --Vinny
>


Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

eleccentric
In reply to this post by Vinny Pinto
In response to below:
Charles wrote:
> >People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with uncoped
youthtraumas. These may damage the immune system also.
> >
> >So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as possible.

--- In [hidden email], Vinny Pinto <vinny@...> wrote:
>
This is, of course,
> due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not only
> have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which tend to
produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact that
they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent fields,
>
Above points well taken. So, I've detoxed with Floressence and
Taurine, taken nutritional/mineral/oil supplements, drank Xango as an
antioxident but have taken a break lately partly from discouragement
that the problem continues to increase with return to increased work
load outside the home. So, I'll go back to the above, continue
shielding, attempt avoidance, but what about uncoped youth traumas? I
am 42 and may have had a 'youth trauma' but I haven't considered that
as a potential contributor to current ES status, in fact, I have always
considered myself well-adjusted and felt as though I have dealt with
this potential 'youth trauma' a long time ago. Can you give me more
information about this subject and on ideas for potential trauma
resolution if, in fact, it is not yet resolved??
Believe in and open to learning more about body/mind/spirit
connections/healing, Christine
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

charles-4
Hello,

I am not a psycho.

Also, I do not know where you are from.
But I thought that America is the land of the *shrinks*.

Anyway, you must consider everything and try to forgive everyone.
That is the main point.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "eleccentric" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 18:04
Subject: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices


> In response to below:
> Charles wrote:
>> >People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with uncoped
> youthtraumas. These may damage the immune system also.
>> >
>> >So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as possible.
>
> --- In [hidden email], Vinny Pinto <vinny@...> wrote:
>>
> This is, of course,
>> due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not only
>> have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which tend to
> produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact that
> they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent fields,
>>
> Above points well taken. So, I've detoxed with Floressence and
> Taurine, taken nutritional/mineral/oil supplements, drank Xango as an
> antioxident but have taken a break lately partly from discouragement
> that the problem continues to increase with return to increased work
> load outside the home. So, I'll go back to the above, continue
> shielding, attempt avoidance, but what about uncoped youth traumas? I
> am 42 and may have had a 'youth trauma' but I haven't considered that
> as a potential contributor to current ES status, in fact, I have always
> considered myself well-adjusted and felt as though I have dealt with
> this potential 'youth trauma' a long time ago. Can you give me more
> information about this subject and on ideas for potential trauma
> resolution if, in fact, it is not yet resolved??
> Believe in and open to learning more about body/mind/spirit
> connections/healing, Christine
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

SArjuna
In reply to this post by Vinny Pinto
Vinny wrote:
Many devices or methods
which may help less-sensitive people may seem to fail rather
miserably when people who are quite ill with ES/EHS try to use them,
simply due to the fact that the ES/EHS in these cases is often a
symptom of a deeper underlying disturbance or deficiency.

Shivani replies:
Or perhaps less-sensitive people profit more from placebos. It is
definitely not a "fact" that the ES in the cases of those not helped by various
devices (that make no meterable difference in one's exposure) is "often a
symptom of a deeper disturbance or deficiency."
The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess his/her
exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation that cleans up his/her
personal EM frequency environment in a meterable way. To neglect to do
this, while spending money on various gizmos that make no meterable difference,
makes little sense.
I am all for improving nutrition, removing toxic metal fillings and root
canals, and anything else that can be done to lower stress and improve
general health. But it is absurd for an ES person to fail to assess/remediate
his/her personal EM frequency environment. And illogical to presume that if
various gizmos don't help that the fault must be in the sufferer!
Vinny, will you please share this message with "Joe?"
Regards,
Shivani
Life Energies



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess
> his/her exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation
> that cleans up his/her personal EM frequency environment in a
> meterable way.

Well, that's great if you spend all day stuck at home. What
about folks who are "out and about"? What do you do at
the office? At the supermarket? At the airport? Be
miserable? Don't go there?

The "gizmos" are quite useful for enviroments where
shielding and conventional remediation aren't practical.
And the mistaken belief that "gizmos" work by the placebo
effect is about as bad as the mistaken belief that
ES does not exist.

Marc

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
Hi Marc:

I much agree with your reply. Thank you for stating it so well.

with care,
--Vinny

At 06:14 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote:

> > The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess
> > his/her exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation
> > that cleans up his/her personal EM frequency environment in a
> > meterable way.
>
>Well, that's great if you spend all day stuck at home. What
>about folks who are "out and about"? What do you do at
>the office? At the supermarket? At the airport? Be
>miserable? Don't go there?
>
>The "gizmos" are quite useful for enviroments where
>shielding and conventional remediation aren't practical.
>And the mistaken belief that "gizmos" work by the placebo
>effect is about as bad as the mistaken belief that
>ES does not exist.
>
>Marc


Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Vinny Pinto
In reply to this post by SArjuna
Hi Shivani:

I understand what you are writing, and I still disagree with the
claims which you make in your reply. My own views are based upon my
particular perspective as an electronics engineer, scientist
(graduate degree in my field; also lecturer in field, with two books
published), healer and intuitive, and on my work with over 200
persons who are self-described as, or diagnosed as, ES/EHS or MCS in
the past six years. You are, however, entitled to believe whatever
you wish. I am not here on this earth to convert other to my
particular points of view nor to any religion, doctrine or creed. So
you are free to go now in peace!

with care,
--Vinny

At 05:57 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote:

>Vinny wrote:
> Many devices or methods
>which may help less-sensitive people may seem to fail rather
>miserably when people who are quite ill with ES/EHS try to use them,
>simply due to the fact that the ES/EHS in these cases is often a
>symptom of a deeper underlying disturbance or deficiency.
>
>Shivani replies:
> Or perhaps less-sensitive people profit more from placebos. It is
>definitely not a "fact" that the ES in the cases of those not helped
>by various
>devices (that make no meterable difference in one's exposure) is "often a
>symptom of a deeper disturbance or deficiency."
> The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess his/her
>exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation that
>cleans up his/her
>personal EM frequency environment in a meterable way. To neglect to do
>this, while spending money on various gizmos that make no meterable
>difference,
>makes little sense.
> I am all for improving nutrition, removing toxic metal
> fillings and root
>canals, and anything else that can be done to lower stress and improve
>general health. But it is absurd for an ES person to fail to
>assess/remediate
>his/her personal EM frequency environment. And illogical to
>presume that if
>various gizmos don't help that the fault must be in the sufferer!
> Vinny, will you please share this message with "Joe?"
> Regards,
> Shivani
> Life Energies
>


Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

hasitatvam
In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Marc and Vinny,

There wasn't anything in Shivani's post that said not to try "gizmos",
only a protocol which begins with trying to understand and clean up
one's EM environment. Shivani was pointing out that neglecting
environmental hygiene then trying to rely solely on "gizmos" to make
things better is illogical. If someone's asthma is triggered from
airborne particulates in the house, it makes sense to filter the air
in your house instead of just relying on an inhaler or a "gizmo".

Marc, Shivani did not say she believed that gizmos work only by
placebo effect. She just stated that people who are less sensitive
might have a better chance at profiting from placebo effect. This
does make sense since those with high sensitivity many times don't
have the luxury of mitigating their greater symptoms to a manageable
level just with optimistic thoughts.

Marc, we read in your posts that you are sensitive to EM. But in all
fairness, you're at the very low end of the sensitivity spectrum with
all the things you're able to withstand on a day-to-day basis. That's
great for you and I hope it stays that way or improves. But your
comments and approach sometimes imply that you don't understand what
it is like to have live and cope with intransigent, long-term EHS.
Sometimes those with this kind of ES are stuck and can't go out
without being strongly affected by the electrosmog, no matter what
they try to help themselves with. So, yes, in many cases the answer
is that they can't go somewhere no matter how much that possibility is
feared or denied by others. And those who have the health to go out
and about could try being a little more kind than aloof in their
blessing of health.

Btw, Vinny, would you mind sharing with us some of the "deeper
underlying disturbances or deficiencies" you keep alluding to? We
could all do with more illumination and help in eliminating these.

cheers,
Yunijo

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess
> > his/her exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation
> > that cleans up his/her personal EM frequency environment in a
> > meterable way.
>
> Well, that's great if you spend all day stuck at home. What
> about folks who are "out and about"? What do you do at
> the office? At the supermarket? At the airport? Be
> miserable? Don't go there?  
>
> The "gizmos" are quite useful for enviroments where
> shielding and conventional remediation aren't practical.
> And the mistaken belief that "gizmos" work by the placebo
> effect is about as bad as the mistaken belief that
> ES does not exist.
>
> Marc
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> Marc, we read in your posts that you are sensitive to EM. But in all
> fairness, you're at the very low end of the sensitivity spectrum with
> all the things you're able to withstand on a day-to-day basis. But
> your comments and approach sometimes imply that you don't understand
> what it is like to have live and cope with intransigent, long-term EHS.

You must not be aware of my history. 5 years ago I had ES so
bad that I was on disability from work and was bedridden, sleeping
as much as 20 hours each day. I couldn't watch TV, I couldn't
use the phone (corded landline), I couldn't use the computer (LCD
monitor) longer than 5 minutes. I certainly wouldn't have
been able to run this discussion group.

But I tried everything I could think of to get better, and I
*did* get better. Better enough to return to work fulltime
(although that took years). Better enough to run this group.
Better enough to be told that I don't know what it's like to
have ES... :-)

Marc

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Re: Charles, no insult intended

eleccentric
In reply to this post by charles-4
Charles, I am sincere in my request for more info on the subject of
people 40-60 yrs confronted with uncoped youth traumas and its effect
on the immune system. Earlier in my day (prior to my reading your
post), a woman from work told me of a friend who had severe
environmental allergies who had been/still is seeing a spiritual
counselor. Her spiritual advisor served to help her become aware of
prior spiritual/trauma issues which they worked together to resolve.
I am told that her environmental issues are nearly gone largely due
to the spiritual advisor's help in aiding her to resolve 'burried'
issues. I suspect that she was also doing other things (ie. organics,
supplements). But anyway, she thought a spiritual counselor might
help and I was/am interested in what you or anyone else has to say
about the subject. I can rationally see how an emotional trauma
could generate ongoing stress that could manifest as impaired
physiological responses. I find that concept potentially
interesting. Anyone else?
I, in no way, found your comment to be 'psycho' and I had no
intention of insulting you. I have found your comments/information on
this site to be valuable and insightful. I'm sorry if you were
insulted in some way. Christine, Hudson, WI, USA  


> > Charles wrote:
> >> >People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with
uncoped
> > youthtraumas. These may damage the immune system also.

Christine wrote:
> > Above points well taken. So, I've detoxed with Floressence and
Taurine, taken nutritional/mineral/oil supplements, drank Xango as an
antioxident but have taken a break lately partly from discouragement
that the problem continues to increase with return to increased work
load outside the home. So, I'll go back to the above, continue
shielding, attempt avoidance, but what about uncoped youth traumas?  
I am 42 and may have had a 'youth trauma' but I haven't considered
that as a potential contributor to current ES status, in fact, I have
always considered myself well-adjusted and felt as though I have
dealt with this potential 'youth trauma' a long time ago. Can you
give me more information about this subject and on ideas for
potential trauma resolution if, in fact, it is not yet resolved??
Believe in and open to learning more about body/mind/spirit
connections/healing, Christine
--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I am not a psycho.
>
> Also, I do not know where you are from.
> But I thought that America is the land of the *shrinks*.
>
> Anyway, you must consider everything and try to forgive everyone.
> That is the main point.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eleccentric" <eleccentric@...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 18:04
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices
>
>
> > In response to below:
> >> >
> >> >So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as
possible.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], Vinny Pinto <vinny@> wrote:
> >>
> > This is, of course,
> >> due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not
only
> >> have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which
tend to
> > produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact
that
> > they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent
fields,
> >>

> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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Re: Charles, Dah! I get it now!

eleccentric
In reply to this post by charles-4
Charles, I suspect you are from Germany as now I remember you were
kind enough to refer me to a German website for medical info re;ES
(Thank you by the way). Anyway, a language barrier (or my
inexperience with internet abbreviations) appears to have caused me
to misinterpret the intent of your message and I just now,
immediately after sending a post to you realized my
misinterpretation. Over here, to say someone is 'psycho' or 'a
psycho' means they are crazy. Also, the term *shrink* may be viewed
as negative or derrogatory. So, I thought I had somehow offended
you. I see now that you simply meant that you are not a
psychologist. I am now also able to appreciate the simplicity of
your message and understand that it is no more complex than that.
Forget the other post, did anyone else get a laugh out of this?
Scary, I didn't even have any 'brain fog' at the time-Christine

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I am not a psycho.
>
> Also, I do not know where you are from.
> But I thought that America is the land of the *shrinks*.
>
> Anyway, you must consider everything and try to forgive everyone.
> That is the main point.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eleccentric" <eleccentric@...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 18:04
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices
>
>
> > In response to below:
> > Charles wrote:
> >> >People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with
uncoped
> > youthtraumas. These may damage the immune system also.
> >> >
> >> >So, first thing is to see that you get a perfect health, as
possible.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], Vinny Pinto <vinny@> wrote:
> >>
> > This is, of course,
> >> due to the fact that these people in the latter group may not
only
> >> have deeper underlying problems in the body/mind/spirit which
tend to
> > produce ES/EHS (or MCS, etc.) as a symptom, but due to the fact
that
> > they bear much higher levels of inner toxins and incoherent
fields,
> >>
> > Above points well taken. So, I've detoxed with Floressence and
> > Taurine, taken nutritional/mineral/oil supplements, drank Xango
as an
> > antioxident but have taken a break lately partly from
discouragement
> > that the problem continues to increase with return to increased
work
> > load outside the home. So, I'll go back to the above, continue
> > shielding, attempt avoidance, but what about uncoped youth
traumas? I
> > am 42 and may have had a 'youth trauma' but I haven't considered
that
> > as a potential contributor to current ES status, in fact, I have
always
> > considered myself well-adjusted and felt as though I have dealt
with
> > this potential 'youth trauma' a long time ago. Can you give me
more

> > information about this subject and on ideas for potential trauma
> > resolution if, in fact, it is not yet resolved??
> > Believe in and open to learning more about body/mind/spirit
> > connections/healing, Christine
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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Re: Quantum (Products) devices

charles-4
In reply to this post by SArjuna
Hello,

yes and no.

First of all, HOME must be good, radiation-poor.

Especially the bedroom, because there you stay most of the time.
And that is the place where the body must come to rest, and where you let
your *shields* down and are you the most vulnerable.
That is the reason why we make a difference between living/working place
with 100 uW/m2 and the bedroom with 1 uW/m2.
The Standard baubiologische Messtechnik 2003 is directed for sleeping
quarters.

So, home must be acceptable.

But one has to go out into the streets and to other places, and then the
gizmo's come to help.

And now my point.
The gismo's help against the longitudinal waves, but NOT against the
transversal waves, which we can measure and which we can shield.
It is my opinion, that first the house must be properly shielded (not all
around, but only against the most radiated walls and windows) and because
the longitudinal waves go right through the shieldings, the gizmo's then
come te work.
So it is and and.


Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 00:21
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Quantum (Products) devices


> Hi Marc:
>
> I much agree with your reply. Thank you for stating it so well.
>
> with care,
> --Vinny
>
> At 06:14 PM 10/12/2006, you wrote:
>> > The first thing an ES person needs to do is thoroughly assess
>> > his/her exposures using proper meters, then undertake remediation
>> > that cleans up his/her personal EM frequency environment in a
>> > meterable way.
>>
>>Well, that's great if you spend all day stuck at home. What
>>about folks who are "out and about"? What do you do at
>>the office? At the supermarket? At the airport? Be
>>miserable? Don't go there?
>>
>>The "gizmos" are quite useful for enviroments where
>>shielding and conventional remediation aren't practical.
>>And the mistaken belief that "gizmos" work by the placebo
>>effect is about as bad as the mistaken belief that
>>ES does not exist.
>>
>>Marc
>
>
> Vinny Pinto
> [hidden email]
>
> phone 301-694-1249
>
> To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
> http://www.vinnypinto.us
>

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Re: Charles, no insult intended

charles-4
In reply to this post by eleccentric
Hello Christine,

sorry, you did misunderstand me.
I am not a doctor or physician, nor am I a psychologist or psychiater
(Psycho).
Everybody must handle as he/she sees fit.
Do whater you like, visit a shrink, do meditation, or reiki or whatever does
help you.
Talk to others.

I only wanted to make this point among the many points and agents for
becoming electrosensible.

My point is, that the mind plays an important part in this.
No, I do not mean what the physicians say *it sits between your ears*.
I mean that a better working of the psyche may help.
*Positive* thinking may help.

A very good book in this is *the Field* bt Lynne McTaggart.
After reading it, my wife was able, after some trying, to make contact with
*the Field*.
She asked for help, and got the ideas for laying imaginary blankets over her
body.
These blankets are in several different colors for different ailments or
pain.
(Red, blue, green, etc.)
She found so, that an imaginary plastic blanket wrapped around her, helped
her with her EHS.

A MCS patient in Belgium had a whole group of other MCS patients around her.
I advised her about elektrosmog and other matters.
She read *the Field* and followed my advices.
She has abandoned this group, and can go shopping in the supermarket and all
other shops.
She does not panick anymore and is not bothered by the smells all around.

It may seem farfetched, but may I remind, that the human body is the most
complex machine available?

We do have magnetite in our brains, and that plays an important part with
electrosensibility.
Some *elektrosmog-protectors* contain magnetite.
In some ways our body works on magnetite, and I could imagine, that special
brain waves (by thinking) could have a positive effect on this magnetite.
Beware, it is only my thinking, but it may be an explanation.

The working mechanism of electromagnetic fields are for 90 % scientifically
found and explained.
It has to do with calcium and potasium ions in and around cells.
I quote:
*Ions can only pass through biol membranes via protein channels. That's why
our theory is focused on the interaction
between the ions and the channel sensors, resulting in irregular gating of
the channels. In this way it is explained why pulsed fields are more
bioactive than continuous ones, why low frequencies are more bioactive than
higher ones etc. It's all very clear and simple and showed by exact
mathematical calculations.*
And:
*Calcium plays an important part in many of these cascades and acts as a
kind of master gain control. Consequently, the entry of extra calcium into
the cytosol as a result of electromagnetic exposure tends to stimulate
whatever activity the cell in question is programmed to carry out. If it is
programmed to grow, growth may be stimulated, if it is programmed for
repair, healing may be stimulated, if it is a dormant precancerous cell,
tumour production may be stimulated.*

This comes from a discussion which still continues after *het bitje* October
2006.

For many years, I have seen women, who were quite normal, but found one day,
that their husband had affairs with others. This gave such a trauma, that
they got breast cancer.
The breast were operated, but six months later, we had to attend the
funeral.
We have observed that many times.
In Germany, they do not perform such operations.
But cancer is another chapter and off-topic.
I only want to show what traumas can do, and make people vulnerable.

Of course I try to measure as much as possible, but I have an opend mind for
other stuff.
And I dig a little deeper than others do.
I am no scientist, but I can combine very well.

In 20 years, we will all have a good laugh, when we look back at the
struggles of today.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus




----- Original Message -----
From: "eleccentric" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 06:03
Subject: [eSens] Re: Charles, no insult intended


> Charles, I am sincere in my request for more info on the subject of
> people 40-60 yrs confronted with uncoped youth traumas and its effect
> on the immune system. Earlier in my day (prior to my reading your
> post), a woman from work told me of a friend who had severe
> environmental allergies who had been/still is seeing a spiritual
> counselor. Her spiritual advisor served to help her become aware of
> prior spiritual/trauma issues which they worked together to resolve.
> I am told that her environmental issues are nearly gone largely due
> to the spiritual advisor's help in aiding her to resolve 'burried'
> issues. I suspect that she was also doing other things (ie. organics,
> supplements). But anyway, she thought a spiritual counselor might
> help and I was/am interested in what you or anyone else has to say
> about the subject. I can rationally see how an emotional trauma
> could generate ongoing stress that could manifest as impaired
> physiological responses. I find that concept potentially
> interesting. Anyone else?
> I, in no way, found your comment to be 'psycho' and I had no
> intention of insulting you. I have found your comments/information on
> this site to be valuable and insightful. I'm sorry if you were
> insulted in some way. Christine, Hudson, WI, USA
>
>
>> > Charles wrote:
>> >> >People between 40 and 60 years of age may be confronted with
> uncoped
>> > youthtraumas. These may damage the immune system also.
>
> Christine wrote:
>> > Above points well taken. So, I've detoxed with Floressence and
> Taurine, taken nutritional/mineral/oil supplements, drank Xango as an
> antioxident but have taken a break lately partly from discouragement
> that the problem continues to increase with return to increased work
> load outside the home. So, I'll go back to the above, continue
> shielding, attempt avoidance, but what about uncoped youth traumas?
> I am 42 and may have had a 'youth trauma' but I haven't considered
> that as a potential contributor to current ES status, in fact, I have
> always considered myself well-adjusted and felt as though I have
> dealt with this potential 'youth trauma' a long time ago. Can you
> give me more information about this subject and on ideas for
> potential trauma resolution if, in fact, it is not yet resolved??
> Believe in and open to learning more about body/mind/spirit
> connections/healing, Christine
> --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am not a psycho.
>>
>> Also, I do not know where you are from.
>> But I thought that America is the land of the *shrinks*.
>>
>> Anyway, you must consider everything and try to forgive everyone.
>> That is the main point.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Charles Claessens
>> member Verband Baubiologie
>> www.milieuziektes.nl
>> www.milieuziektes.be
>> www.hetbitje.nl
>> checked by Norton Antivirus
>>