Re: Dairy cows and emf effects

"Stray voltage" is a term concocted by the electric utility companies
and the Public Service Commissions in the American midwest. To cover their
legal butts.
Electricity does not stray!
Current is on the ground because the utilities are using the ground to
return most of the current to their substations.
They took great care to define "stray voltage" as being "steady state."
In other words, just 60 Hz. Where can anybody find current that is pure
60 Hz these days?
Also, they define "stray voltage" as only affecting animals. Thus,
even if the same thing harming his cattle destroys the farmer's health, he has
no case, because "stray voltage" does not affect people - by definition.
It is all crooked politics. It is rare indeed for a dairy farmer to
be able to win a case. And rarer yet to every collect any of the money!
So far, no lawyer has been found to take a human injury case to court.
Several times a lawyer began to prepare such a case, but each time suddenly
the lawyer was doing some kind of work for the utility company instead.
They pay really well.
Bitterly,
Shivani
www.LifeEnergies.com (Where you can read more about all the above.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, it must be admitted that the term "stray voltage" is over 100
years old (certainly in the UK). It was found that with the first
electrified London Underground lines, the voltage/current returning through
the ground affected buildings, pipes and businesses (even in those days!)
and they had to put in an extra rail to act as an earth return. This was
not required on main lines outside London, which returned current through
the earth (and still do). However, these are dc voltages. Most electrified
railways nowadays are ac but have earth return.
 
All the same, if farmers' cows stray, they can be liable for any damage
caused (again, at least in the UK) so maybe stray voltage isn't such a bad
term after all!
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: 16 November 2006 03:21
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Dairy cows and emf effects



"Stray voltage" is a term concocted by the electric utility companies
and the Public Service Commissions in the American midwest. To cover their
legal butts.
Electricity does not stray!
Current is on the ground because the utilities are using the ground to
return most of the current to their substations.
They took great care to define "stray voltage" as being "steady state."
In other words, just 60 Hz. Where can anybody find current that is pure
60 Hz these days?
Also, they define "stray voltage" as only affecting animals. Thus,
even if the same thing harming his cattle destroys the farmer's health, he
has
no case, because "stray voltage" does not affect people - by definition.
It is all crooked politics. It is rare indeed for a dairy farmer to
be able to win a case. And rarer yet to every collect any of the money!
So far, no lawyer has been found to take a human injury case to court.
Several times a lawyer began to prepare such a case, but each time suddenly
the lawyer was doing some kind of work for the utility company instead.
They pay really well.
Bitterly,
Shivani
www.LifeEnergies.com (Where you can read more about all the above.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian wrote:

Actually, it must be admitted that the term "stray voltage" is over 100
years old (certainly in the UK). It was found that with the first
electrified London Underground lines, the voltage/current returning through
the ground affected buildings, pipes and businesses (even in those days!)
and they had to put in an extra rail to act as an earth return.

Shivani replies:
The corect technical term is "ground current."

Ian wrote:
All the same, if farmers' cows stray, they can be liable for any damage
caused (again, at least in the UK) so maybe stray voltage isn't such a bad
term after all!

Shivani replies:
Cows stray. Dogs and cats stray. Electrical current does not.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Shivani and folks:

I noted with interest that you recently wrote the following in your
reply to another poster on this list group:

>Shivani replies:
> The corect technical term is "ground current."
>Shivani replies:
> Cows stray. Dogs and cats stray. Electrical current does not.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion and beliefs, and I
have no desire to convert you to my opinion(s), but, since you have
raised this issue about stray voltage repeatedly, I choose to share
briefly my observations and opinions as an electrical/electronics
engineer and scientist:

On "Ground Current"
First, while one correct term for the phenomena would indeed be
"ground current", we must understand that the term ground current is
very broad umbrella term, and it includes all kinds of DC and AC (at
any of many frequencies ranging from ULF to UHF frequencies) currents
flowing in the ground from both natural (i.e., from geological,
geophysical, geobiological and planetary atmospheric sources; some of
these natural electrical current flows have been called "telluric
currents" by some authors) and also manmade sources. So, it is kind
of like saying that a Toyota Corolla is an "automotive vehicle" --
yes, it is, but, more specifically, it is a car or an automobile, and
more specifically, a Toyota brand car, and even more specifically a
Toyota Corolla. And, to me, this term "ground current" is just one of
several correct terms used at times to denote such phenomena, but it
is a very broad umbrella term, and, when using it, one would usually
need to specify further what type or species of ground current to
which they were referring.

On "Stray Voltage"
I disagree that electromotive potential (often called "voltage" by
laypersons) and current do not stray. My experience, after having
worked closely for much of the past fifty years with various types
and forms of electricity ranging from DC through ULF, ELF, VLF and on
up to UHF and beyond -- including various types of ground currents
of both natural and manmade origin -- is that electric potential and
current can each easily "stray", and for many reasons. Any
electronics engineer who designs circuitry knows that currents will
find the darndest and most unexpected paths to return to "home", and
both electromotive potential and electrical currents in one place can
induce other EM potentials or currents even at a modest distance in
another place. For one great but extreme example of stray current in
nature, consider lightning as it finds its path through the air and
particularly as it nears the ground -- it zigazgs wildly, and often
the current path, as it nears the ground, breaks off into dozens or
hundreds of unpredictable fractal geometries. Another example is
corrosion caused to buried metal pipes and parts due to
naturally-occurring DC and ULF currents. Further, as any ship
designer or shipyard worker knows, there are even plenty of natural
"stray currents" which occur in the oceans and which cause corrosion
of below-water metal components (such as metal hulls) of ships; and
these natural "stray" currents existed in the seas for many millions
of years before humans ever appeared on earth. So, to me, the terms
"stray voltage", or more accurately, the two mutually-complementary
terms "stray electromotive potential" and "stray current" are quite
valid descriptors -- albeit rather broadband and generalist
designators -- of real and valid phenomena.

It is also worthwhile to note, much as I have noted above for the
term "ground current", that the terms "stray voltage", "stray
electromotive potential" and "stray current" are all broad terms, and
can actually describe a wide range of natural and manmade phenomena.

A Few Words About the Terms
I understand that much of your fire and ire about the widespread
usage in the popular vernacular of the term "stray voltage" stems
from the fact that you believe that the widespread usage of term for
leakage current from AC power distribution systems can somehow
contribute to allowing utility companies to "wriggle out" of
responsibility for significant harm caused by AC power distribution
system ground return currents which should better be returning via
the neutral wire or the ground wire. However, I suspect that any
immunity that many utility vendors may seem to enjoy from liability
for damage from such currents is due far more to their vast legal
funds and large teams of litigation attorneys than to the usage of
the term "stray voltage", which has been in the popular venacular for
over a hundred years.

Lastly, I must note as an observer that many of your writings about
this topic and the topics of EMF effects upon humans and animals seem
to be tinged with quite a bit of stridency, anger and bitterness
(indeed, you have actually used the term "bitter" at times in your
posts to the list group.) It is my observation that those phenomena
in the outside world which we continue to hate, or blame, or feel
bitter about, in other words, those things against which we rail and
struggle and which we resist, tend to propagate and expand even more
in our lives as time passes, due largely to our own resistance, as we
end up becoming co-creators of those things which we resist. Thus, it
may be understandable that such EMF-related phenoma appear to
continue to cause you grief and strife in your life.

with care,
--Vinny

At 11:09 AM 11/17/2006, you wrote:

Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

--- In [hidden email], Vinny Pinto <vinny@...> wrote:

Unfair!

>

>
> On "Stray Voltage"
> I disagree that electromotive potential (often called "voltage" by
> laypersons) and current do not stray. My experience, after having
> worked closely for much of the past fifty years with various types
> and forms of electricity ranging from DC through ULF, ELF, VLF and on
> up to UHF and beyond -- including various types of ground currents
> of both natural and manmade origin -- is that electric potential and
> current can each easily "stray", and for many reasons.

With all due respect, I must disagree.
My experience of many years as an electronics
technician/technologist/computer troubleshooter is that so-called
stray currents are often caused by the innocence of engineers.
Sometimes just sloppy design.



Any
> electronics engineer who designs circuitry knows that currents will
> find the darndest and most unexpected paths to return to "home", and
> both electromotive potential and electrical currents in one place can
> induce other EM potentials or currents even at a modest distance in
> another place.

Good creators test stuff before it leave the factory.

For one great but extreme example of stray current in
> nature, consider lightning as it finds its path through the air and
> particularly as it nears the ground -- it zigazgs wildly, and often
> the current path, as it nears the ground, breaks off into dozens or
> hundreds of unpredictable fractal geometries.

Electricity goes where it can; like politics it follows the path of
least resistance.


Another example is
> corrosion caused to buried metal pipes and parts due to
> naturally-occurring DC and ULF currents. Further, as any ship
> designer or shipyard worker knows, there are even plenty of natural
> "stray currents" which occur in the oceans and which cause corrosion
> of below-water metal components (such as metal hulls) of ships; and
> these natural "stray" currents existed in the seas for many millions
> of years before humans ever appeared on earth.

Right, designed to be there by the great designer, AKA God.


So, to me, the terms
> "stray voltage", or more accurately, the two mutually-complementary
> terms "stray electromotive potential" and "stray current" are quite
> valid descriptors -- albeit rather broadband and generalist
> designators -- of real and valid phenomena.


Do arrogant engineers deny that God is competent?


>
> It is also worthwhile to note, much as I have noted above for the
> term "ground current", that the terms "stray voltage", "stray
> electromotive potential" and "stray current" are all broad terms, and
> can actually describe a wide range of natural and manmade phenomena.

If they are natural they are not "stray". If manmade, they can be
either sloppy design or deliberate nastiness of reptoid reptilian
trolls deliberately making us miserable.

IMHO it's popular because trolls made it so. For the purpose of
denying resonsibility.

>
> Lastly, I must note as an observer that many of your writings about
> this topic and the topics of EMF effects upon humans and animals seem
> to be tinged with quite a bit of stridency, anger and bitterness
> (indeed, you have actually used the term "bitter" at times in your
> posts to the list group.)

from a book on military history: once is accident, twice is
coincidence, thrice is enemy action.

Bitterness seems a reasonable reaction to the complacency of those who
pretend to defend us.

 
It is my observation that those phenomena
> in the outside world which we continue to hate, or blame, or feel
> bitter about, in other words, those things against which we rail and
> struggle and which we resist, tend to propagate and expand even more
> in our lives as time passes, due largely to our own resistance,


How about "due to trolls noticing that a weapon works, and increasing
it's use".


as we
> end up becoming co-creators of those things which we resist.


You go too far. Have you been listening to the Canadian Broadcasting
Corporation radio? Nice girl radio, as is in "nice enough to gag a
maggot", or "everything is for the best in this best of all possible
countries".
If so, I recommend this antidote: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com



Thus, it
> may be understandable that such EMF-related phenoma appear to
> continue to cause you grief and strife in your life.


Yes, they did appear. Apparently created in order to diminish the
quality of life enough to cause grief and strife.

In this group we strive to find ways to cope with the reality of
radiated electromagnetic poison.

"There Are No Accidents" --from a brief exposure to the ideas
propagated by the Institute of Applied Metaphysics.


William
Disclaimer: This post powered by coffee.
 

Shivani replies:
The corect technical term is "ground current."

Let's be precise; one currently used and acceptable technical term is ground
current. Another term describing similar phenomena, in use before any of us
was born, is stray voltage. Both terms have "loose" or "vernacular"
descriptions, and also one (or more) "precise" technical definitions - since
unfortunately in many areas, definitions vary between disciplines and
countries. However, "stray voltage" is not a term recently coined by US
Midwest utilities, unless they are capable of working at more than the speed
of light and putting it into books published 40/70 years ago :-)
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: 17 November 2006 16:10
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Dairy cows and emf effects



Ian wrote:

Actually, it must be admitted that the term "stray voltage" is over 100
years old (certainly in the UK). It was found that with the first
electrified London Underground lines, the voltage/current returning through
the ground affected buildings, pipes and businesses (even in those days!)
and they had to put in an extra rail to act as an earth return.

Shivani replies:
The corect technical term is "ground current."

Ian wrote:
All the same, if farmers' cows stray, they can be liable for any damage
caused (again, at least in the UK) so maybe stray voltage isn't such a bad
term after all!

Shivani replies:
Cows stray. Dogs and cats stray. Electrical current does not.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vinny wrote:

Well, let me stress here again, since it seems that some folks may
still be thinking -- when they hear the term "stray voltage" -- of
EMF fields or E-fields in the air (i.e., free space), that the
concept of "stray voltage" refers specifically to small currents,
usually 60 Hz AC currents from the power grid (often current which
should have been carried back to the power station via the neutral
wire or ground wire in the power grid), running through the soil in
order to return to the nearest grounded node in that sector of the
power grid.

Shivani replies:
No, these ground currents are not "running through the soil in
order to return to the nearest grounded node in that sector of the
power grid."
The present electrical transmission is incapable of returning all the
current to the substations, because it was never designed to handle the
high-frequencies that are added to it by the users along the way. In the part of
the US where I live, 70 to 80% of the return current travels via the ground
(terra firma/dirt) all the way to the substations.
High-frequency electricity behaves differently from 60 Hz. It is
subject to the "skin effect," which describes how it tends to flow away from wiring
and flow over the surfaces of of things, including the ground. In some
places, there are invisible flows of current as much as 100 feet wide, flowing
over the ground.
Too bad if your livestock happen to be in such an area. Or your
house.


Vinny wrote:
One common method is to employ a digital voltmeter (DVM) with a high
impedance input, set to an AC voltage scale which reads from perhaps
0.01 to 2 volts, and then do any of the following ....

Shivani replies:
Livestock respond to voltage of mere millivolts if high frequencies are
present. Ordinary equipment will not do the needed job.
Dave Stetzer and others use an oscilloscope connected to ground probes
or plates. You can plainly see the waveforms.

Vinny wrote:
And, there are other red herrings which can confuse the casual
observer as well, since it has been well-known for many hundreds of
years that the earth itself often generates sizeable DC electric
currents ....

Shivani replies:
The Earth's DC does not induce current in living bodies.

For more on this, please see my Web site, in particular
www.lifeenergies.com/pollution/hemef/emfip1-11.htm

Regards,
Shivani Arjuna


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]