Phone mast allergy "in the mind"

Hi all,

Well, of course someone has funded a study to show
that there's no such thing as ES:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm

Can't believe much you read in the press, anyway... :-)

Marc

I've read the study and the initial comments on Powerwatch.

The study has some good points, but the data analysis seems to
be biased. Here's my take in detail:

This is one of those papers that does not find what the punch line says it

William J. Bruno, Ph.D.


P.S.: What is striking about the paper is that the blind well-being scores
> track the open scores quite well in most cases. The open scores were highly
> significant, using a conservative Bonferroni correction. I believe that
> more than one dimension of well-being would have been significant without
> the correction, and this argues for a weaker correction, or a lumped
> analysis. Again, one should not say that no effect was observed; rather the
> observed effect fell short of statistical significance in a study that did
> not have much power.
>


On 7/25/07, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
Yes, I heard about this and I actually wonder if they are aware that
electrosensitivity is officially recognised in several countries like
Sweden. The thing is that the quote from someone saying it's all in
the mind, why would anyone want to be electrosensitive or sensitive
to specifically masts? They obviously wouldn't, and I'm sure that
alot of peoples symptoms came first, before they even knew what
electrosensitivity was, so this group of people clearly have not read
about ES before "deciding" they are sensitive, they just are
sensitive for real.

Richard

Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their teeth
about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts it forward
as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
 
1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES who can't
travel was unable to attend.
2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the tests
because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the results. (this
info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips of
Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some people were
unable to continue)
3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a total period
of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that particular
frequency would not register a positive reaction.
4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies a lot
about what they expected to find!
 
Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to react most
strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
 
An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:
1. A study is done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of a building
with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can walk,
therefore severe disability does not exist.
2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with various
allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc. All are
exposed to pollen. Only a few develop hayfever. Therefore, allergies and
hayfever do not exist, and for the few people who do display a reaction, it
is obviously all in the mind.
3. A study is done on lung cancer. People show no obvious ill effect after
1 hour of smoking cigarettes, therefore there is no link between smoking and
cancer.
4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian or an expert
forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and making the
assessment is an amateur photographer.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 25 July 2007 19:56
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Phone mast allergy "in the mind"



Hi all,

Well, of course someone has funded a study to show
that there's no such thing as ES:

http://news. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm>
bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm

Can't believe much you read in the press, anyway... :-)

Marc


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Small correction; it actually states in the article that 12 people dropped
out of the study due to illness, and 44 "sensitives" and 114 controls were
tested. Assuming that those who dropped out were sensitive, it means that
over 20% (44 out of 56) of the test group were unable to complete the tests.
This is a very high proportion, especially if these "illnesses" happened to
suddenly manifest themselves on the day, in the test environment..... To
then say that only 2 of the remaining 44 could detect the emissions
consistently is a rather flawed sample.
 
Ian
_____  

From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 26 July 2007 18:42
To: '[hidden email]'
Subject: RE: [eSens] Phone mast allergy "in the mind"


Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their teeth
about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts it forward
as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
 
1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES who can't
travel was unable to attend.
2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the tests
because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the results. (this
info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips of
Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some people were
unable to continue)
3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a total period
of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that particular
frequency would not register a positive reaction.
4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies a lot
about what they expected to find!
 
Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to react most
strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
 
An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:
1. A study is done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of a building
with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can walk,
therefore severe disability does not exist.
2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with various
allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc. All are
exposed to pollen. Only a few develop hayfever. Therefore, allergies and
hayfever do not exist, and for the few people who do display a reaction, it
is obviously all in the mind.
3. A study is done on lung cancer. People show no obvious ill effect after
1 hour of smoking cigarettes, therefore there is no link between smoking and
cancer.
4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian or an expert
forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and making the
assessment is an amateur photographer.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 25 July 2007 19:56
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Phone mast allergy "in the mind"



Hi all,

Well, of course someone has funded a study to show
that there's no such thing as ES:

http://news. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm>
bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm

Can't believe much you read in the press, anyway... :-)

Marc


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian, you have made some excellent points, especially the comparisons
at the bottom. (i wonder if the Guardian would print it?)

I could not attend because the University was 200 miles from me. As
if the long journey via London were not enough, i remember also that
the visit would have involved an overnight stay. Obviously the team
were unable to recommend any hotels that might be suitable for an ES
person to stay in!

There was also an issue over the expenses allowed for participants,
they were very low, allowing only really for local people to attend
the experiments. (the hotel would have been at my expense).  

Furthermore, if a participant had to drop out of the study, which
took place over a number of months, then no expenses would be
refunded, and the particpant would be left footing the bill.

jane (previously canaryuk)


--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
> University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their
teeth
> about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts it
forward
> as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
>  
> 1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES
who can't
> travel was unable to attend.
> 2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the
tests
> because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the
results. (this
> info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips
of
> Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some
people were
> unable to continue)
> 3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a
total period
> of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that
particular
> frequency would not register a positive reaction.
> 4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies
a lot
> about what they expected to find!
>  
> Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to
react most
> strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
> moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
>  
> An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:
> 1. A study is done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of a
building
> with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can
walk,
> therefore severe disability does not exist.
> 2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with
various
> allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc. All
are
> exposed to pollen. Only a few develop hayfever. Therefore,
allergies and
> hayfever do not exist, and for the few people who do display a
reaction, it
> is obviously all in the mind.
> 3. A study is done on lung cancer. People show no obvious ill
effect after
> 1 hour of smoking cigarettes, therefore there is no link between
smoking and
> cancer.
> 4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian or an
expert
> forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and making
the
> assessment is an amateur photographer.
>  
> Ian
>
> _____  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Marc

Thanks Jane. It's very interesting to have testimony on the circumstances
under which this trials was carried out. It shows that it would have been
ineffective in allowing severely ES people to participate. Hence, it cannot
be used as evidence to "disprove" a link between ES and mast exposure,
contrary to the media reports (though I take the point made elsewhere that
the Essex researchers did not actually claim this!)
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
asurisuk
Sent: 27 July 2007 16:40
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Phone mast allergy "in the mind"



Ian, you have made some excellent points, especially the comparisons
at the bottom. (i wonder if the Guardian would print it?)

I could not attend because the University was 200 miles from me. As
if the long journey via London were not enough, i remember also that
the visit would have involved an overnight stay. Obviously the team
were unable to recommend any hotels that might be suitable for an ES
person to stay in!

There was also an issue over the expenses allowed for participants,
they were very low, allowing only really for local people to attend
the experiments. (the hotel would have been at my expense).

Furthermore, if a participant had to drop out of the study, which
took place over a number of months, then no expenses would be
refunded, and the particpant would be left footing the bill.

jane (previously canaryuk)

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at the
> University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their
teeth
> about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts it
forward
> as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
>
> 1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe ES
who can't
> travel was unable to attend.
> 2. Five subjects with severe ES who were unable to complete the
tests
> because of the pain experienced were simply excluded from the
results. (this
> info is second hand but I believe originates from Alasdair Phillips
of
> Powerwatch, I have also heard from a separate source that some
people were
> unable to continue)
> 3. Exposures were to a given frequency of MW mast signal for a
total period
> of under 1 hour, so that people who were not sensitive to that
particular
> frequency would not register a positive reaction.
> 4. The researchers were psychologists, not medical - which implies
a lot
> about what they expected to find!
>
> Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to
react most
> strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough that
> moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
>
> An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:
> 1. A study is done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of a
building
> with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can
walk,
> therefore severe disability does not exist.
> 2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with
various
> allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc. All
are
> exposed to pollen. Only a few develop hayfever. Therefore,
allergies and
> hayfever do not exist, and for the few people who do display a
reaction, it
> is obviously all in the mind.
> 3. A study is done on lung cancer. People show no obvious ill
effect after
> 1 hour of smoking cigarettes, therefore there is no link between
smoking and
> cancer.
> 4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian or an
expert
> forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and making
the
> assessment is an amateur photographer.
>
> Ian
>
> _____
>
> From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
Behalf Of Marc bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm>


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think the only way that anyone can even begin to start considering
provocation studies is if a clinic/retreat centre is set up first
which has been tried and tested by ES people as a place where their
symptoms improve. (I guess i'm thinking of something along the lines
of that MCS place in Texas). Even then the study would take months
during which time those with ES would have to stay at the centre,
possibly resting for weeks inbetween each exposure, for the most
severely affected by the illness.

I reckon that a proper study of the illness will more likely come
from a private source, from people who would be able to afford to
attend such a clinic. I guess the Breakspear is doing something in
that direction. But really what we need is a clinic where people can
stay and feel better. It is only from a point of wellness that tests
could be done to discover what makes sufferers feel worse. Its
ridiculous testing people who turn up already feeling ill. Utterly
pointless!!


--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jane. It's very interesting to have testimony on the
circumstances
> under which this trials was carried out. It shows that it would
have been
> ineffective in allowing severely ES people to participate. Hence,
it cannot
> be used as evidence to "disprove" a link between ES and mast
exposure,
> contrary to the media reports (though I take the point made
elsewhere that
> the Essex researchers did not actually claim this!)
>  
> Ian
>
> _____  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of
> asurisuk
> Sent: 27 July 2007 16:40
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Phone mast allergy "in the mind"
>
>
>
> Ian, you have made some excellent points, especially the
comparisons
> at the bottom. (i wonder if the Guardian would print it?)
>
> I could not attend because the University was 200 miles from me. As
> if the long journey via London were not enough, i remember also
that
> the visit would have involved an overnight stay. Obviously the team
> were unable to recommend any hotels that might be suitable for an
ES com, "Ian Kemp"
> <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, this is the study which has been going on for some years at
the
> > University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground their
> teeth
> > about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts
it Phillips implies
> a lot
> > about what they expected to find!
> >
> > Basically, 1 and 2 excluded the people who might be expected to
> react most
> > strongly (severely ES), and the exposure time was short enough
that
> > moderately ES people might not experience a reaction.
> >
> > An interesting parallel that I thought of would be this:
> > 1. A study is done on disability. It is held on an upper floor of
a
> building
> > with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing can
> walk,
> > therefore severe disability does not exist.
> > 2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected with
> various
> > allergies; bee stings, nuts, pollen, solvents, dust mites etc.
All an <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6914492.stm>

Further thoughts on this...I think that if this Swedish EMF Refuge is
a success then THAT would be the place to start investigating what ES
is.
--- In [hidden email], "asurisuk" <asurisuk@...> wrote:
>
> I think the only way that anyone can even begin to start
considering
> provocation studies is if a clinic/retreat centre is set up first
> which has been tried and tested by ES people as a place where their
> symptoms improve. (I guess i'm thinking of something along the
lines
> of that MCS place in Texas). Even then the study would take months
> during which time those with ES would have to stay at the centre,
> possibly resting for weeks inbetween each exposure, for the most
> severely affected by the illness.
>
> I reckon that a proper study of the illness will more likely come
> from a private source, from people who would be able to afford to
> attend such a clinic. I guess the Breakspear is doing something in
> that direction. But really what we need is a clinic where people
can
> stay and feel better. It is only from a point of wellness that
tests Hence, As
> > if the long journey via London were not enough, i remember also
> that
> > the visit would have involved an overnight stay. Obviously the
team
> > were unable to recommend any hotels that might be suitable for an
> ES
> > person to stay in!
> >
> > There was also an issue over the expenses allowed for
participants,
> > they were very low, allowing only really for local people to
attend at
> the
> > > University of Essex, which various UK ES people have ground
their
> > teeth
> > > about periodically while it was being done! In case anyone puts
> it
> > forward
> > > as an anti-ES argument, the following points might be noted.
> > >
> > > 1. It was held at the University site - so anyone with severe
ES of
> a
> > building
> > > with stairs and no lift. All the people appearing for testing
can
> > walk,
> > > therefore severe disability does not exist.
> > > 2. A study is to be done on allergies. People are collected
with between
> > smoking and
> > > cancer.
> > > 4. A painting is to be examined to see whether it is a Titian
or
> an
> > expert
> > > forgery. The person responsible for devising the test and
making
> > the
> > > assessment is an amateur photographer.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com]
On