Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

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rowster_c

Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual ozone
mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If anybody
would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with a
lot of meters or a building biologist?

Thanks all,

Rowan Campbell

charles-4

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

Hello,

why those questions?

I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
Radon is coming from the ground.
Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground underneath
the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials. Concrete,
cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³. In the
crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one may find
30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.

About ozone I do not know.

But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys the
negative air-ions.
Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one measured
only 50 % left.
A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.

So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones remained the
same and were unaffected.
There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and Radon gas.

Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /scm.

That is very bad for the environment and diseases.

Negative air-ions are like an air police.
They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
Normally when there are enough.
Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
kilometers unharmed.
!!!
?
!!

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "rowsteroz" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:01
Subject: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

> I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual ozone
> mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If anybody
> would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with a
> lot of meters or a building biologist?
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Rowan Campbell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

charles-4

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

Hello,

I am sorry. I made a mistake.
The negative air ions are measured as per cubic centimeters, not square
centimeters.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "charles" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:30
Subject: Re: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

> Hello,
>
> why those questions?
>
> I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
> Radon is coming from the ground.
> Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground underneath
> the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials. Concrete,
> cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
> According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³. In the
> crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one may

find

> 30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.
>
> About ozone I do not know.
>
> But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys the
> negative air-ions.
> Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one measured
> only 50 % left.
> A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
> A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.
>
> So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones remained

the

> same and were unaffected.
> There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and Radon gas.
>
> Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
> Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
> In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /scm.
>
> That is very bad for the environment and diseases.
>
> Negative air-ions are like an air police.
> They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
> Normally when there are enough.
> Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
> kilometers unharmed.
> !!!
> ?
> !!
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>

Marc Martin

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

Administrator

In reply to this post by charles-4

> About ozone I do not know.

Also, perhaps one would have to differentiate between
a regular mobile phone tower and a mobile phone tower
that has had an orgone "tower buster" placed nearby... :-)

Marc

rowster_c

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

In reply to this post by charles-4

Thanks for the instant reply Charles.

I a investigating the Crest situation, www.sauvonsleon.fr , the large
death toll. Having translated a few bits and pieces from French, I am
getting a feeling for what may be going on in this particular
situation, where they are at altitude with unusual midday fog I
believe.

I shall excerpt much of the lengthy email I am sending them to
explain. I do not imply that this is happening at all towers.

QUOTE:

"Having looked at some of the evidence at your site, there is the
possibility that the 3G tower may be causing death by creating AIR
POLLUTION as a result of the radiation from the tower interacting with
fog, as I shall explain.

Firstly, some of the symptoms expressed on your testimonials site are
of respiratory and cardiac distress, and are worse in the afternoon.
This occurs with smog poisoning.

Outbreaks of smog poisoning have been noted to create death tolls.

I read you have midday summer fog. The most deaths were in the height
of summer.

Mountain areas worldwide are known to have a problem with ground level
ozone. Also it is known that electrical machinery can produce ozone.
This is via a high voltage process called 'corona discharge' seen at
powerlines and power stations. However this is not normally such a
problem at a small site. Mountain areas also have high ultraviolet,
especially in the summer.

[INSERT Charles, your ionisation information informs me here.]

In cities, the sun ultraviolet light beats down on car exhaust,
creating photochemical smog. There is ozone and other noxious gases.

It appears possible to me that the microwave energy from the tower
might combine with the sunlight to agitate the fog into a poisonous
smog. This could occure several ways, and could only be determined by
tests being performed. There is a process in industry called MICROWAVE
PLASMA', where microwaves aggravate gases such as fog to change them.
It has been suggested that this may be involved in acid rain and acid
fog and ozone levels.

[CHARLES: Your info suggests to me that coronal ionisation may be more
of a problem than I thought. However I believe plasma is relevant. A
complicated ionised gas that interacts with microwaves, possibly
producing ozone and NOx. Microwave plasma. They are using it to
process exhaust, and I found one composed of fog, ozone and microwaves
in a lab. I think the supersaturated fog/ steam is prone to
interacting with microwaves, but this is a guess.]

[Continuuiing - ]

Could you please answer:

why could some radiation measurements not be performed due to
the fog?

have people commented on unusual air quality problems? Does the
air smell or taste different, or is anything corroding excessively?

when exactly was the transmitter turned on? Did people
immediately complain of symptoms? Do some symptoms disappear either
overnight, or at times of clear air?

I notice that you are developing a meteorology section on your
website, and suspect that you may have noticed meteorological
connections. I would advise you, ASL, to call in the TOP AIR QUALITY
EXPERTS you can find to perform measurements of all air quality
variables in the immediate vicinity of the tower, including:

ozone
nitrogen oxides (NOx)
Radon and other trace gases in the air (radon and other gases
would probably accelerate this process)

[CHARLES: Radon or noble gases are the stuff that makes a plasma
more possible. For example a neon light, a fluorescent plasma driven
by neon.]

[CHARLES: I shall now add: 'also air ionisation levels']

[Continuuing- ]

Because it is no longer summer, without the sun to accelerate the
process, these tests may come back within normal range, and might I
suspect that the death rate has fallen. You might prossibly also try
scraping gunk of the walls and having it analysed.
" [END OF EMAIL]

I shall report to the group any developments. I perceive that there
may be an air quality issue related to some of the isolated tower
issues that develop into clusters of rare and fatal illness, as
opposed to more common electrosensitivity.

Also Charles, not trying to be a conspiracy theorist or alarmist, but
I am wondering whether man made microwaves may be involved in avian
influenza. Birds are the highest risk group for radiation (feathers
are aerials), microwaves cause DNA damage, filthy pens + microwaves =
viral mutation? This is only a guess. I noticed that prior to the 1918
Spanish Flu, the first radar and energy radiation experiments were
carried out in the US, with the creator, Tesla, in his madness gaining
a propensity to nurture wounded pigeons near his big transmitter.

That is not substantiated and this is mere speculation.

Very interested in what you think of fog

Regards

Rowan C

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> why those questions?
>
> I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
> Radon is coming from the ground.
> Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground
underneath
> the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials.
Concrete,
> cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
> According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³.
In the
> crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one
may find
> 30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.
>
> About ozone I do not know.
>
> But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys
the
> negative air-ions.
> Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one
measured
> only 50 % left.
> A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
> A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.
>
> So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones
remained the
> same and were unaffected.
> There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and
Radon gas.
>
> Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
> Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
> In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /
scm.

>
> That is very bad for the environment and diseases.
>
> Negative air-ions are like an air police.
> They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
> Normally when there are enough.
> Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
> kilometers unharmed.
> !!!
> ?
> !!
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:01
> Subject: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone

towers.
>
>
> > I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual
ozone
> > mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If
anybody
> > would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with
a

> > lot of meters or a building biologist?
> >
> > Thanks all,
> >
> > Rowan Campbell
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Andrew McAfee

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

Cool points. On the Ozone issue, my understanding that the Ozone is not
the problem, it is the toxins in the air that the Ozone is binding to
and sinking to the ground.
Of course, too much ozone is not good. And, I think the major problem
is the toxins in the air and not the ozone that is trying to clear it
from the sky.
Andrew
On Oct 23, 2005, at 11:09 AM, rowsteroz wrote:

> Thanks for the instant reply Charles.
>
> I a investigating the Crest situation, www.sauvonsleon.fr , the large
> death toll. Having translated a few bits and pieces from French, I am
> getting a feeling for what may be going on in this particular
> situation, where they are at altitude with unusual midday fog I
> believe.
>
> I shall excerpt much of the lengthy email I am sending them to
> explain. I do not imply that this is happening at all towers.
>
> QUOTE:
>
> "Having looked at some of the evidence at your site, there is the
> possibility that the 3G tower may be causing death by creating AIR
> POLLUTION as a result of the radiation from the tower interacting with
> fog, as I shall explain.
>
> Firstly, some of the symptoms expressed on your testimonials site are
> of respiratory and cardiac distress, and are worse in the afternoon.
> This occurs with smog poisoning.
>
> Outbreaks of smog poisoning have been noted to create death tolls.
>
> I read you have midday summer fog. The most deaths were in the height
> of summer.
>
> Mountain areas worldwide are known to have a problem with ground level
> ozone. Also it is known that electrical machinery can produce ozone.
> This is via a high voltage process called 'corona discharge' seen at
> powerlines and power stations. However this is not normally such a
> problem at a small site. Mountain areas also have high ultraviolet,
> especially in the summer.
>
> [INSERT Charles, your ionisation information informs me here.]
>
> In cities, the sun ultraviolet light beats down on car exhaust,
> creating photochemical smog. There is ozone and other noxious gases.
>
> It appears possible to me that the microwave energy from the tower
> might combine with the sunlight to agitate the fog into a poisonous
> smog. This could occure several ways, and could only be determined by
> tests being performed. There is a process in industry called MICROWAVE
> PLASMA', where microwaves aggravate gases such as fog to change them.
> It has been suggested that this may be involved in acid rain and acid
> fog and ozone levels.
>
> [CHARLES: Your info suggests to me that coronal ionisation may be more
> of a problem than I thought. However I believe plasma is relevant. A
> complicated ionised gas that interacts with microwaves, possibly
> producing ozone and NOx. Microwave plasma. They are using it to
> process exhaust, and I found one composed of fog, ozone and microwaves
> in a lab. I think the supersaturated fog/ steam is prone to
> interacting with microwaves, but this is a guess.]
>
> [Continuuiing - ]
>
> Could you please answer:
>
> why could some radiation measurements not be performed due to
> the fog?
>
> have people commented on unusual air quality problems? Does the
> air smell or taste different, or is anything corroding excessively?
>
> when exactly was the transmitter turned on? Did people
> immediately complain of symptoms? Do some symptoms disappear either
> overnight, or at times of clear air?
>
> I notice that you are developing a meteorology section on your
> website, and suspect that you may have noticed meteorological
> connections. I would advise you, ASL, to call in the TOP AIR QUALITY
> EXPERTS you can find to perform measurements of all air quality
> variables in the immediate vicinity of the tower, including:
>
> ozone
> nitrogen oxides (NOx)
> Radon and other trace gases in the air (radon and other gases
> would probably accelerate this process)
>
> [CHARLES: Radon or noble gases are the stuff that makes a plasma
> more possible. For example a neon light, a fluorescent plasma driven
> by neon.]
>
> [CHARLES: I shall now add: 'also air ionisation levels']
>
> [Continuuing- ]
>
> Because it is no longer summer, without the sun to accelerate the
> process, these tests may come back within normal range, and might I
> suspect that the death rate has fallen. You might prossibly also try
> scraping gunk of the walls and having it analysed.
> " [END OF EMAIL]
>
> I shall report to the group any developments. I perceive that there
> may be an air quality issue related to some of the isolated tower
> issues that develop into clusters of rare and fatal illness, as
> opposed to more common electrosensitivity.
>
>
> Also Charles, not trying to be a conspiracy theorist or alarmist, but
> I am wondering whether man made microwaves may be involved in avian
> influenza. Birds are the highest risk group for radiation (feathers
> are aerials), microwaves cause DNA damage, filthy pens + microwaves =
> viral mutation? This is only a guess. I noticed that prior to the 1918
> Spanish Flu, the first radar and energy radiation experiments were
> carried out in the US, with the creator, Tesla, in his madness gaining
> a propensity to nurture wounded pigeons near his big transmitter.
>
> That is not substantiated and this is mere speculation.
>
> Very interested in what you think of fog
>
> Regards
>
> Rowan C
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> why those questions?
>>
>> I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
>> Radon is coming from the ground.
>> Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground
> underneath
>> the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials.
> Concrete,
>> cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
>> According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³.
> In the
>> crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one
> may find
>> 30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.
>>
>> About ozone I do not know.
>>
>> But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys
> the
>> negative air-ions.
>> Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one
> measured
>> only 50 % left.
>> A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
>> A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.
>>
>> So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones
> remained the
>> same and were unaffected.
>> There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and
> Radon gas.
>>
>> Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
>> Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
>> In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /
> scm.
>>
>> That is very bad for the environment and diseases.
>>
>> Negative air-ions are like an air police.
>> They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
>> Normally when there are enough.
>> Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
>> kilometers unharmed.
>> !!!
>> ?
>> !!
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Charles Claessens
>> member Verband Baubiologie
>> www.milieuziektes.nl
>> www.milieuziektes.be
>> www.hetbitje.nl
>> checked by Norton Antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:01
>> Subject: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone
> towers.
>>
>>
>>> I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual
> ozone
>>> mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If
> anybody
>>> would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with
> a
>>> lot of meters or a building biologist?
>>>
>>> Thanks all,
>>>
>>> Rowan Campbell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

charles-4

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

In reply to this post by rowster_c

Hello Rowan,

I do not know what fog is.
In ancient times, it was just water vapour.
Nowadays, I do not know.
In France, it is depending on the place and situation.

When I lived in the Netherlands, according to the wind direction, we had all
the stuff from the german Ruhr Gebiet, or from the petrochmical plants near
Rotterdam, or those from Antwerp.
Occasionnally, we found Sahara sand on our car in the morning.

Everyday, new chemical products come available.
Many come into the air.
We have the problem of the socalled *fine-dust*.
So nobody knows what is exactly onto the air.
All those chemicals may interact with each other and form new chemical
combinations.

It is quite possible, that the pulsed high frequency may have a possible
influence in those chemical reactions.

Another point.
As you can see on my website under alternatives, there is this Bioresonance
theme.
Many people all over the world work with Bioreonance machines successfully.
There are CAFL lists of frequencies.
There is this of Royal Rife, which goes from 0.5 Hz up to 10.000 Hz (in
general)
And we also have a list of Hulda Clark, which goes from 30.000 Hz up to 1
MHz.
All those frequencies do have an effect on our health.

Now. The organisation channel of 3G masts are pulsed with 15.000 Hz.
This constant frequency lies just in between the series of Royal Rife and
Hulda Clark.
(No doctor in the world has uttered a protest because of this!)

Another point.
So there is a lot of fog.
In this fog, there must be a lot of known and unknown chemicals, single or
interacting with each other, forming new chemicals
This fog is radiated with the frequencies of the 3G masts, as well as other
GSM masts.
Nobody knows what reaction the EMF has on the chemical processes.

On my website, one can see the wheat-seed water test.
Where it is proven (beyond any shadow of a doubt to use a legal term) that
water can adopt information, especially those of mobile phones.

So besides of being radiated through air, the persons there in France may
inhale their portion of radiation also by the fog.

It may seem farfetched, but there must be a reason, that they get cancers.

BTW.
In my house investigations, more and more people are worried.
There seems to be en explosion of many cancer cases around them.
Also with younger people.

It was on our television today, that many youngsters, age 14-15 years, had
trouble in counting and spelling.
Of course, nobody wants to link that to mobile phones.

At last, perhaps Dietrich may point to a longitudinal link.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus

----- Original Message -----
From: "rowsteroz" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 17:09
Subject: [eSens] Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

> Thanks for the instant reply Charles.
>
> I a investigating the Crest situation, www.sauvonsleon.fr , the large
> death toll. Having translated a few bits and pieces from French, I am
> getting a feeling for what may be going on in this particular
> situation, where they are at altitude with unusual midday fog I
> believe.
>
> I shall excerpt much of the lengthy email I am sending them to
> explain. I do not imply that this is happening at all towers.
>
> QUOTE:
>
> "Having looked at some of the evidence at your site, there is the
> possibility that the 3G tower may be causing death by creating AIR
> POLLUTION as a result of the radiation from the tower interacting with
> fog, as I shall explain.
>
> Firstly, some of the symptoms expressed on your testimonials site are
> of respiratory and cardiac distress, and are worse in the afternoon.
> This occurs with smog poisoning.
>
> Outbreaks of smog poisoning have been noted to create death tolls.
>
> I read you have midday summer fog. The most deaths were in the height
> of summer.
>
> Mountain areas worldwide are known to have a problem with ground level
> ozone. Also it is known that electrical machinery can produce ozone.
> This is via a high voltage process called 'corona discharge' seen at
> powerlines and power stations. However this is not normally such a
> problem at a small site. Mountain areas also have high ultraviolet,
> especially in the summer.
>
> [INSERT Charles, your ionisation information informs me here.]
>
> In cities, the sun ultraviolet light beats down on car exhaust,
> creating photochemical smog. There is ozone and other noxious gases.
>
> It appears possible to me that the microwave energy from the tower
> might combine with the sunlight to agitate the fog into a poisonous
> smog. This could occure several ways, and could only be determined by
> tests being performed. There is a process in industry called MICROWAVE
> PLASMA', where microwaves aggravate gases such as fog to change them.
> It has been suggested that this may be involved in acid rain and acid
> fog and ozone levels.
>
> [CHARLES: Your info suggests to me that coronal ionisation may be more
> of a problem than I thought. However I believe plasma is relevant. A
> complicated ionised gas that interacts with microwaves, possibly
> producing ozone and NOx. Microwave plasma. They are using it to
> process exhaust, and I found one composed of fog, ozone and microwaves
> in a lab. I think the supersaturated fog/ steam is prone to
> interacting with microwaves, but this is a guess.]
>
> [Continuuiing - ]
>
> Could you please answer:
>
> why could some radiation measurements not be performed due to
> the fog?
>
> have people commented on unusual air quality problems? Does the
> air smell or taste different, or is anything corroding excessively?
>
> when exactly was the transmitter turned on? Did people
> immediately complain of symptoms? Do some symptoms disappear either
> overnight, or at times of clear air?
>
> I notice that you are developing a meteorology section on your
> website, and suspect that you may have noticed meteorological
> connections. I would advise you, ASL, to call in the TOP AIR QUALITY
> EXPERTS you can find to perform measurements of all air quality
> variables in the immediate vicinity of the tower, including:
>
> ozone
> nitrogen oxides (NOx)
> Radon and other trace gases in the air (radon and other gases
> would probably accelerate this process)
>
> [CHARLES: Radon or noble gases are the stuff that makes a plasma
> more possible. For example a neon light, a fluorescent plasma driven
> by neon.]
>
> [CHARLES: I shall now add: 'also air ionisation levels']
>
> [Continuuing- ]
>
> Because it is no longer summer, without the sun to accelerate the
> process, these tests may come back within normal range, and might I
> suspect that the death rate has fallen. You might prossibly also try
> scraping gunk of the walls and having it analysed.
> " [END OF EMAIL]
>
> I shall report to the group any developments. I perceive that there
> may be an air quality issue related to some of the isolated tower
> issues that develop into clusters of rare and fatal illness, as
> opposed to more common electrosensitivity.
>
>
> Also Charles, not trying to be a conspiracy theorist or alarmist, but
> I am wondering whether man made microwaves may be involved in avian
> influenza. Birds are the highest risk group for radiation (feathers
> are aerials), microwaves cause DNA damage, filthy pens + microwaves =
> viral mutation? This is only a guess. I noticed that prior to the 1918
> Spanish Flu, the first radar and energy radiation experiments were
> carried out in the US, with the creator, Tesla, in his madness gaining
> a propensity to nurture wounded pigeons near his big transmitter.
>
> That is not substantiated and this is mere speculation.
>
> Very interested in what you think of fog
>
> Regards
>
> Rowan C
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > why those questions?
> >
> > I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
> > Radon is coming from the ground.
> > Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground
> underneath
> > the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials.
> Concrete,
> > cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
> > According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³.
> In the
> > crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one
> may find
> > 30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.
> >
> > About ozone I do not know.
> >
> > But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys
> the
> > negative air-ions.
> > Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one
> measured
> > only 50 % left.
> > A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
> > A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.
> >
> > So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones
> remained the
> > same and were unaffected.
> > There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and
> Radon gas.
> >
> > Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
> > Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
> > In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /
> scm.
> >
> > That is very bad for the environment and diseases.
> >
> > Negative air-ions are like an air police.
> > They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
> > Normally when there are enough.
> > Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
> > kilometers unharmed.
> > !!!
> > ?
> > !!
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Charles Claessens
> > member Verband Baubiologie
> > www.milieuziektes.nl
> > www.milieuziektes.be
> > www.hetbitje.nl
> > checked by Norton Antivirus
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:01
> > Subject: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone
> towers.
> >
> >
> > > I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual
> ozone
> > > mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If
> anybody
> > > would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with
> a
> > > lot of meters or a building biologist?
> > >
> > > Thanks all,
> > >
> > > Rowan Campbell
> > >

rowster_c

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

Hi Charles and Andrew,

yes a very remarkeable set of points.

Andrew I have noted that the atmosphere can self organise to create parts
that stop toxins (ozone) and parts that promote smog (UV?).

Charles, I notice your fine dust, of which I had never heard. I followed
the link from google, which I translated, http://www.physik.uni-augsburg.
de/exp5/esmog/index.html , showing the connection between electrosmog and
atmospheric smog.

The link between mobile phone towers or microwave sources and atmospheric
pollution, by whatever means such as imprinting, or magnetosonic/ plasma
dust effects seems palpable. I certainly got grey dust stains on my wall
from my ioniser. Microwaves can cause the particles to suspend, and effect
water molecules as steam.

We' ll see what happens.

Regards

Rowan C

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
>
> Hello Rowan,
>
> I do not know what fog is.
> In ancient times, it was just water vapour.
> Nowadays, I do not know.
> In France, it is depending on the place and situation.
>
> When I lived in the Netherlands, according to the wind direction, we had
all
> the stuff from the german Ruhr Gebiet, or from the petrochmical plants
near

> Rotterdam, or those from Antwerp.
> Occasionnally, we found Sahara sand on our car in the morning.
>
> Everyday, new chemical products come available.
> Many come into the air.
> We have the problem of the socalled *fine-dust*.
> So nobody knows what is exactly onto the air.
> All those chemicals may interact with each other and form new chemical
> combinations.
>
> It is quite possible, that the pulsed high frequency may have a possible
> influence in those chemical reactions.
>
> Another point.
> As you can see on my website under alternatives, there is this

Bioresonance
> theme.
> Many people all over the world work with Bioreonance machines
successfully.
> There are CAFL lists of frequencies.
> There is this of Royal Rife, which goes from 0.5 Hz up to 10.000 Hz (in
> general)
> And we also have a list of Hulda Clark, which goes from 30.000 Hz up to
1

> MHz.
> All those frequencies do have an effect on our health.
>
> Now. The organisation channel of 3G masts are pulsed with 15.000 Hz.
> This constant frequency lies just in between the series of Royal Rife and
> Hulda Clark.
> (No doctor in the world has uttered a protest because of this!)
>
> Another point.
> So there is a lot of fog.
> In this fog, there must be a lot of known and unknown chemicals, single

or
> interacting with each other, forming new chemicals
> This fog is radiated with the frequencies of the 3G masts, as well as
other
> GSM masts.
> Nobody knows what reaction the EMF has on the chemical processes.
>
> On my website, one can see the wheat-seed water test.
> Where it is proven (beyond any shadow of a doubt to use a legal term)
that
> water can adopt information, especially those of mobile phones.
>
> So besides of being radiated through air, the persons there in France may
> inhale their portion of radiation also by the fog.
>
> It may seem farfetched, but there must be a reason, that they get
cancers.
>
> BTW.
> In my house investigations, more and more people are worried.
> There seems to be en explosion of many cancer cases around them.
> Also with younger people.
>
> It was on our television today, that many youngsters, age 14-15 years,
had

> trouble in counting and spelling.
> Of course, nobody wants to link that to mobile phones.
>
> At last, perhaps Dietrich may point to a longitudinal link.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton Antivirus
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 17:09
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone

towers.

>
>
> > Thanks for the instant reply Charles.
> >
> > I a investigating the Crest situation, www.sauvonsleon.fr , the large
> > death toll. Having translated a few bits and pieces from French, I am
> > getting a feeling for what may be going on in this particular
> > situation, where they are at altitude with unusual midday fog I
> > believe.
> >
> > I shall excerpt much of the lengthy email I am sending them to
> > explain. I do not imply that this is happening at all towers.
> >
> > QUOTE:
> >
> > "Having looked at some of the evidence at your site, there is the
> > possibility that the 3G tower may be causing death by creating AIR
> > POLLUTION as a result of the radiation from the tower interacting with
> > fog, as I shall explain.
> >
> > Firstly, some of the symptoms expressed on your testimonials site are
> > of respiratory and cardiac distress, and are worse in the afternoon.
> > This occurs with smog poisoning.
> >
> > Outbreaks of smog poisoning have been noted to create death tolls.
> >
> > I read you have midday summer fog. The most deaths were in the height
> > of summer.
> >
> > Mountain areas worldwide are known to have a problem with ground level
> > ozone. Also it is known that electrical machinery can produce ozone.
> > This is via a high voltage process called 'corona discharge' seen at
> > powerlines and power stations. However this is not normally such a
> > problem at a small site. Mountain areas also have high ultraviolet,
> > especially in the summer.
> >
> > [INSERT Charles, your ionisation information informs me here.]
> >
> > In cities, the sun ultraviolet light beats down on car exhaust,
> > creating photochemical smog. There is ozone and other noxious gases.
> >
> > It appears possible to me that the microwave energy from the tower
> > might combine with the sunlight to agitate the fog into a poisonous
> > smog. This could occure several ways, and could only be determined by
> > tests being performed. There is a process in industry called MICROWAVE
> > PLASMA', where microwaves aggravate gases such as fog to change them.
> > It has been suggested that this may be involved in acid rain and acid
> > fog and ozone levels.
> >
> > [CHARLES: Your info suggests to me that coronal ionisation may be more
> > of a problem than I thought. However I believe plasma is relevant. A
> > complicated ionised gas that interacts with microwaves, possibly
> > producing ozone and NOx. Microwave plasma. They are using it to
> > process exhaust, and I found one composed of fog, ozone and microwaves
> > in a lab. I think the supersaturated fog/ steam is prone to
> > interacting with microwaves, but this is a guess.]
> >
> > [Continuuiing - ]
> >
> > Could you please answer:
> >
> > why could some radiation measurements not be performed due to
> > the fog?
> >
> > have people commented on unusual air quality problems? Does the
> > air smell or taste different, or is anything corroding excessively?
> >
> > when exactly was the transmitter turned on? Did people
> > immediately complain of symptoms? Do some symptoms disappear either
> > overnight, or at times of clear air?
> >
> > I notice that you are developing a meteorology section on your
> > website, and suspect that you may have noticed meteorological
> > connections. I would advise you, ASL, to call in the TOP AIR QUALITY
> > EXPERTS you can find to perform measurements of all air quality
> > variables in the immediate vicinity of the tower, including:
> >
> > ozone
> > nitrogen oxides (NOx)
> > Radon and other trace gases in the air (radon and other gases
> > would probably accelerate this process)
> >
> > [CHARLES: Radon or noble gases are the stuff that makes a plasma
> > more possible. For example a neon light, a fluorescent plasma driven
> > by neon.]
> >
> > [CHARLES: I shall now add: 'also air ionisation levels']
> >
> > [Continuuing- ]
> >
> > Because it is no longer summer, without the sun to accelerate the
> > process, these tests may come back within normal range, and might I
> > suspect that the death rate has fallen. You might prossibly also try
> > scraping gunk of the walls and having it analysed.
> > " [END OF EMAIL]
> >
> > I shall report to the group any developments. I perceive that there
> > may be an air quality issue related to some of the isolated tower
> > issues that develop into clusters of rare and fatal illness, as
> > opposed to more common electrosensitivity.
> >
> >
> > Also Charles, not trying to be a conspiracy theorist or alarmist, but
> > I am wondering whether man made microwaves may be involved in avian
> > influenza. Birds are the highest risk group for radiation (feathers
> > are aerials), microwaves cause DNA damage, filthy pens + microwaves =
> > viral mutation? This is only a guess. I noticed that prior to the 1918
> > Spanish Flu, the first radar and energy radiation experiments were
> > carried out in the US, with the creator, Tesla, in his madness gaining
> > a propensity to nurture wounded pigeons near his big transmitter.
> >
> > That is not substantiated and this is mere speculation.
> >
> > Very interested in what you think of fog
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rowan C
> >
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@m...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > why those questions?
> > >
> > > I see no reason why radon should appear around mobile phone towers.
> > > Radon is coming from the ground.
> > > Inside a house 60 % of the radon gas is coming from the ground
> > underneath
> > > the house. The other 40% is coming from building materials.
> > Concrete,
> > > cement, stone and gypsum or plaster may give much radon also.
> > > According to measurements out of the soil is coming 30.000 Bq/m³.
> > In the
> > > crawl spaces there is 300 Bq/m³, and in the living rooms above one
> > may find
> > > 30 Bq/m³. In teh open air one may find still 3 Bq/m³.
> > >
> > > About ozone I do not know.
> > >
> > > But the high frequency radiation coming from those towers destroys
> > the
> > > negative air-ions.
> > > Measurements have shown from 200 meters to 60 meters distance one
> > measured
> > > only 50 % left.
> > > A mobile phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left
> > > A cordless DECT phone: one meter to 15 cm: 50% left.
> > >
> > > So the negative air-ions are destroyed; the positive air-iones
> > remained the
> > > same and were unaffected.
> > > There is a relation between the number of positive air-ions and
> > Radon gas.
> > >
> > > Many years ago, we had 3000-4000 negative air-ions per square cm.
> > > Nowadays that level is 300-400neh air-ions/scm.
> > > In the neighbourhood of such towers it can go down to 100 or 80 /
> > scm.
> > >
> > > That is very bad for the environment and diseases.
> > >
> > > Negative air-ions are like an air police.
> > > They shoot down polls, stuff particles ans virusses.
> > > Normally when there are enough.
> > > Now those 40 nanometer large virusses can travel many hundereds of
> > > kilometers unharmed.
> > > !!!
> > > ?
> > > !!
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > > Charles Claessens
> > > member Verband Baubiologie
> > > www.milieuziektes.nl
> > > www.milieuziektes.be
> > > www.hetbitje.nl
> > > checked by Norton Antivirus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...>
> > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 16:01
> > > Subject: [eSens] Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone
> > towers.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would be very interested if anybody had ever measured unusual
> > ozone
> > > > mainly or radon or gas levels around a mobile phone tower. If
> > anybody
> > > > would like to drop me a line or reply whenever. Maybe someone with
> > a
> > > > lot of meters or a building biologist?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks all,
> > > >
> > > > Rowan Campbell
> > > >
>

snoshoe_2

Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

I should perhaps start a new thread, but it is electrosmog related I
think.

Does anyone know about the dangers of the type of pollution created
by the electric and hybrid cars? I know this was a big concern the
first time around that these cars were hoped to be put on the market,
back in ?late 70's/early 80's, and that seemed to stop it.

This time they don't seem to give a rip. I wrote Ford about it a
couple years back and asked what they'd done to correct the problem,
or shield from it (You know your radio/tape decks have shielding or
you'd get awful static from the engine.)

The vehicle itself being bad enough, then they have to add to it
things like Onstar and the satellite radio, and God knows what. Talk
about being zapped on a regular basis while you drive!

One of the bad things I've heard of these new hybrid cars, is that in
accidents they are just bad news. The jaws of life can't be used to
rescue people because of the electric current. They're also worse if
you end up in the water.

I had a thought occur to me the other day, I no one minds my sharing
it here. In the Bible where it talks about Christ coming back in a
big flash of light that the whole world will see... well, what if
that big flash is due to our messing with the earth's emf field to
such a degree with all this constant static build up that it just
gets to the 'explosion' point? You know, the one that makes the
spark when you have static and touch metal, but on a grand scale.

It just seems to me, that it's getting possible for that to happen.
The whole earth is covered with our bad emf's and they just keep
adding more, and that doesn't even count HAARP, or that the earth's
natural field is dissipating at a fairly rapid rate. Seems to me,
global warming is the least of our worries!

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...> wrote:
>
> Hi Charles and Andrew,
>
> yes a very remarkeable set of points.
>
> Andrew I have noted that the atmosphere can self organise to create
parts
> that stop toxins (ozone) and parts that promote smog (UV?).
>
> Charles, I notice your fine dust, of which I had never heard. I
followed
> the link from google, which I translated, http://www.physik.uni-
augsburg.
> de/exp5/esmog/index.html , showing the connection between
electrosmog and
> atmospheric smog.
>
> The link between mobile phone towers or microwave sources and
atmospheric
> pollution, by whatever means such as imprinting, or magnetosonic/
plasma
> dust effects seems palpable. I certainly got grey dust stains on my
wall
> from my ioniser. Microwaves can cause the particles to suspend, and
effect
> water molecules as steam.
>
> We' ll see what happens.
>
> Regards
>
> Rowan C
>

Ian Kemp

Electric and other cars

I don't think we need to worry too much about electric and hybrid cars in reality. As far as I know they are dc, battery powered. Most ES sufferers report little or no effect from dc compared with ac. And dc generates no electric/magnetic associated fields in the air compared with ac - it is the change (alternation) in the current which causes these fields.

With cars, it tends to be the electronic ignition systems, onboard computers and all the other modern electrical gadgets which cause problems for the people inside the car (these are short range effects so have little effect on anyone outside). They are also the things which radios need shielding from to prevent intereference. Sue found she was helped a lot when we were kindly given a 16 year old car with carburettor, points, no central locking etc. Wearing a metallic headnet earthed to the seat runner, she can travel for an hour or two in this old car with few adverse effects, whereas even a short journey in newer cars gives her real problems.

However these gadgets will give bad ES effects in any modern car, whether hybrid or conventional. If anything, the hybrid might be a bit better because with some power being provided by the dc electric current, less needs to come from the engine and the load on the elctronic ignition system should be marginally less.

I'm also not very convinced about the accidents idea. Trains and cars with electric motors, batteries, dynamos etc have been involved in accidents for over 100 years and there's been no problem clearing them up. It depends what the source is of these reports. Sometimes they are just someone speculating with little foundation. Let's face it, ES sufferers have enough to worry about in the environment round us, without adding further fears which might not be realistic. But I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong if there's a reasonable explanation - we all know that we need to keep an open mind about the mysteries of ES!

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: snoshoe_2
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: [eSens] Re: Ozone or air abnormalities around mobile phone towers.

I should perhaps start a new thread, but it is electrosmog related I
think.

Does anyone know about the dangers of the type of pollution created
by the electric and hybrid cars? I know this was a big concern the
first time around that these cars were hoped to be put on the market,
back in ?late 70's/early 80's, and that seemed to stop it.

This time they don't seem to give a rip. I wrote Ford about it a
couple years back and asked what they'd done to correct the problem,
or shield from it (You know your radio/tape decks have shielding or
you'd get awful static from the engine.)

The vehicle itself being bad enough, then they have to add to it
things like Onstar and the satellite radio, and God knows what. Talk
about being zapped on a regular basis while you drive!

One of the bad things I've heard of these new hybrid cars, is that in
accidents they are just bad news. The jaws of life can't be used to
rescue people because of the electric current. They're also worse if
you end up in the water.

I had a thought occur to me the other day, I no one minds my sharing
it here. In the Bible where it talks about Christ coming back in a
big flash of light that the whole world will see... well, what if
that big flash is due to our messing with the earth's emf field to
such a degree with all this constant static build up that it just
gets to the 'explosion' point? You know, the one that makes the
spark when you have static and touch metal, but on a grand scale.

It just seems to me, that it's getting possible for that to happen.
The whole earth is covered with our bad emf's and they just keep
adding more, and that doesn't even count HAARP, or that the earth's
natural field is dissipating at a fairly rapid rate. Seems to me,
global warming is the least of our worries!

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "rowsteroz" <rowanc@w...> wrote:
>
> Hi Charles and Andrew,
>
> yes a very remarkeable set of points.
>
> Andrew I have noted that the atmosphere can self organise to create
parts
> that stop toxins (ozone) and parts that promote smog (UV?).
>
> Charles, I notice your fine dust, of which I had never heard. I
followed
> the link from google, which I translated, http://www.physik.uni-
augsburg.
> de/exp5/esmog/index.html , showing the connection between
electrosmog and
> atmospheric smog.
>
> The link between mobile phone towers or microwave sources and
atmospheric
> pollution, by whatever means such as imprinting, or magnetosonic/
plasma
> dust effects seems palpable. I certainly got grey dust stains on my
wall
> from my ioniser. Microwaves can cause the particles to suspend, and
effect
> water molecules as steam.
>
> We' ll see what happens.
>
> Regards
>
> Rowan C
>

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snoshoe_2

Re: Electric and other cars

Thanks. :)

I don't recall where I found out about the jaws of life being a
problem with the electric cars, but it is valid.

I could be wrong, but I believe all cars with an alternator convert
to AC power. Only the much older ones with generators remain DC.

DC bothers me in many cases as well. Such as with the battery powered
solar lights. I know there's more, but I can't recall it at the
moment.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Sue and Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:
>
> I don't think we need to worry too much about electric and hybrid
cars in reality. As far as I know they are dc, battery powered.
Most ES sufferers report little or no effect from dc compared with
ac. And dc generates no electric/magnetic associated fields in the
air compared with ac - it is the change (alternation) in the current
which causes these fields.
>
> With cars, it tends to be the electronic ignition systems, onboard
computers and all the other modern electrical gadgets which cause
problems for the people inside the car (these are short range effects
so have little effect on anyone outside). They are also the things
which radios need shielding from to prevent intereference. Sue found
she was helped a lot when we were kindly given a 16 year old car with
carburettor, points, no central locking etc. Wearing a metallic
headnet earthed to the seat runner, she can travel for an hour or two
in this old car with few adverse effects, whereas even a short
journey in newer cars gives her real problems.
>
> However these gadgets will give bad ES effects in any modern car,
whether hybrid or conventional. If anything, the hybrid might be a
bit better because with some power being provided by the dc electric
current, less needs to come from the engine and the load on the
elctronic ignition system should be marginally less.
>
> I'm also not very convinced about the accidents idea. Trains and
cars with electric motors, batteries, dynamos etc have been involved
in accidents for over 100 years and there's been no problem clearing
them up. It depends what the source is of these reports. Sometimes
they are just someone speculating with little foundation. Let's face
it, ES sufferers have enough to worry about in the environment round
us, without adding further fears which might not be realistic. But
I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong if there's a reasonable
explanation - we all know that we need to keep an open mind about the
mysteries of ES!
>
> Ian

snoshoe_2

Re: Electric and other cars

Sorry,
had to go looking. This is a ways off, but interesting, "vehicle to
grid"-

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002264.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0729/p17s02-stct.html

Potential hybrid problems:

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=2&aid=84200 includes State Farm's
take
http://www.firehouse.com/extrication/archives/2001/august01.html

I don't think it's necessarily something to worry about, but something
to be aware of. Better to know ahead, so possibly problems can be
avoided.

~ Snoshoe

Ian Kemp

Re: Electric and other cars

In reply to this post by snoshoe_2

Thanks. Interesting that you have problems with dc, sorry to hear this is a problem too. That seems quite unusual. I just wonder if sometimes it could be the appliance that it is powering, rather than the dc source itself, which is the problem? Like with battery powered solar lights - it could be the frequencies of em emissions from the light itself. You may have seen our messages over Sue's problem with the street lamps - which seem at present to be due to the broader frequency spectrum from the new lamps which give a whiter light than the old yellow monochromatic (narrow frequency) sodium lamps.

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: snoshoe_2
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:16 AM
Subject: [eSens] Re: Electric and other cars

Thanks. :)

I don't recall where I found out about the jaws of life being a
problem with the electric cars, but it is valid.

I could be wrong, but I believe all cars with an alternator convert
to AC power. Only the much older ones with generators remain DC.

DC bothers me in many cases as well. Such as with the battery powered
solar lights. I know there's more, but I can't recall it at the
moment.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Sue and Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:
>
> I don't think we need to worry too much about electric and hybrid
cars in reality. As far as I know they are dc, battery powered.
Most ES sufferers report little or no effect from dc compared with
ac. And dc generates no electric/magnetic associated fields in the
air compared with ac - it is the change (alternation) in the current
which causes these fields.
>
> With cars, it tends to be the electronic ignition systems, onboard
computers and all the other modern electrical gadgets which cause
problems for the people inside the car (these are short range effects
so have little effect on anyone outside). They are also the things
which radios need shielding from to prevent intereference. Sue found
she was helped a lot when we were kindly given a 16 year old car with
carburettor, points, no central locking etc. Wearing a metallic
headnet earthed to the seat runner, she can travel for an hour or two
in this old car with few adverse effects, whereas even a short
journey in newer cars gives her real problems.
>
> However these gadgets will give bad ES effects in any modern car,
whether hybrid or conventional. If anything, the hybrid might be a
bit better because with some power being provided by the dc electric
current, less needs to come from the engine and the load on the
elctronic ignition system should be marginally less.
>
> I'm also not very convinced about the accidents idea. Trains and
cars with electric motors, batteries, dynamos etc have been involved
in accidents for over 100 years and there's been no problem clearing
them up. It depends what the source is of these reports. Sometimes
they are just someone speculating with little foundation. Let's face
it, ES sufferers have enough to worry about in the environment round
us, without adding further fears which might not be realistic. But
I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong if there's a reasonable
explanation - we all know that we need to keep an open mind about the
mysteries of ES!
>
> Ian

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johnlankes

Re: Electric and other cars

I haven't looked into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if electric
cars have a power inverter to convert DC into the (more efficient)
AC. I have never been around one, but I wonder what kind of EMF's
would be found if someone went over the thing with a gaussmeter.

John Lankes

- In [hidden email], "Sue and Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks. Interesting that you have problems with dc, sorry to hear
this is a problem too. That seems quite unusual. I just wonder if
sometimes it could be the appliance that it is powering, rather than
the dc source itself, which is the problem? Like with battery
powered solar lights - it could be the frequencies of em emissions
from the light itself. You may have seen our messages over Sue's
problem with the street lamps - which seem at present to be due to
the broader frequency spectrum from the new lamps which give a whiter
light than the old yellow monochromatic (narrow frequency) sodium
lamps.

>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: snoshoe_2
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:16 AM
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Electric and other cars
>
>
> Thanks. :)
>
> I don't recall where I found out about the jaws of life being a
> problem with the electric cars, but it is valid.
>
> I could be wrong, but I believe all cars with an alternator

convert
> to AC power. Only the much older ones with generators remain DC.
>
> DC bothers me in many cases as well. Such as with the battery
powered

> solar lights. I know there's more, but I can't recall it at the
> moment.
>
> ~ Snoshoe
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Sue and Ian Kemp"
> <ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think we need to worry too much about electric and

hybrid
> cars in reality. As far as I know they are dc, battery powered.
> Most ES sufferers report little or no effect from dc compared
with
> ac. And dc generates no electric/magnetic associated fields in
the
> air compared with ac - it is the change (alternation) in the
current
> which causes these fields.
> >
> > With cars, it tends to be the electronic ignition systems,
onboard
> computers and all the other modern electrical gadgets which cause
> problems for the people inside the car (these are short range
effects
> so have little effect on anyone outside). They are also the
things
> which radios need shielding from to prevent intereference. Sue
found
> she was helped a lot when we were kindly given a 16 year old car
with
> carburettor, points, no central locking etc. Wearing a metallic
> headnet earthed to the seat runner, she can travel for an hour or
two
> in this old car with few adverse effects, whereas even a short
> journey in newer cars gives her real problems.
> >
> > However these gadgets will give bad ES effects in any modern
car,
> whether hybrid or conventional. If anything, the hybrid might be
a
> bit better because with some power being provided by the dc
electric
> current, less needs to come from the engine and the load on the
> elctronic ignition system should be marginally less.
> >
> > I'm also not very convinced about the s idea. Trains
and
> cars with electric motors, batteries, dynamos etc have been
involved
> in s for over 100 years and there's been no problem
clearing
> them up. It depends what the source is of these reports.
Sometimes
> they are just someone speculating with little foundation. Let's
face
> it, ES sufferers have enough to worry about in the environment
round
> us, without adding further fears which might not be realistic.
But
> I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong if there's a reasonable
> explanation - we all know that we need to keep an open mind about
the
> mysteries of ES!
> >
> > Ian
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "eSens" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [hidden email]
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Marc Martin

Re: Electric and other cars

Administrator

johnlankes wrote:
> I haven't looked into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if electric
> cars have a power inverter to convert DC into the (more efficient)
> AC. I have never been around one

Last year, I drove a 2004 Toyota Prius for a day... I did not notice
any difficulties from the car EXCEPT for the small florescent display
in the center of the car. As long as I kept that off, I was fine.
But these kinds of displays are in a variety of non-electric cars
as well...

Marc

Ian Kemp

Re: Electric and other cars

In reply to this post by johnlankes

Certainly, in modern electric trains, three-phase ac drives are used instead of the old dc motors, and if the power supply to the train is dc (as in Southern England) this requires an inverter. However I wonder whether there would be enough space for this in a car, and whether the extra weight would also outweigh any gain in efficiency. Interesting question! I had assumed cars would use dc throughout, but it is a pure guess. There is already ac from the alternator, but on a much smaller scale.

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: johnlankes
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: [eSens] Re: Electric and other cars

I haven't looked into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if electric
cars have a power inverter to convert DC into the (more efficient)
AC. I have never been around one, but I wonder what kind of EMF's
would be found if someone went over the thing with a gaussmeter.

John Lankes

- In [hidden email], "Sue and Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks. Interesting that you have problems with dc, sorry to hear
this is a problem too. That seems quite unusual. I just wonder if
sometimes it could be the appliance that it is powering, rather than
the dc source itself, which is the problem? Like with battery
powered solar lights - it could be the frequencies of em emissions
from the light itself. You may have seen our messages over Sue's
problem with the street lamps - which seem at present to be due to
the broader frequency spectrum from the new lamps which give a whiter
light than the old yellow monochromatic (narrow frequency) sodium
lamps.

convert
> to AC power. Only the much older ones with generators remain DC.
>
> DC bothers me in many cases as well. Such as with the battery
powered