NEWBIE: Seeking Ways To Shield My Computer

In a message dated 14/11/2009 16:55:51 GMT Standard Time, [hidden email]
writes:

Bruce and Richard Conrad have been making highly modified
rear projectors. It's a big project, but they can be shielded
better than other monitors. There are still issues with flicker etc.



PUK replies - getting your distance from the equipment has got to be a
bonus so projectors have got to be good here, and must be readily sheildable.
As for the PICO projectors there are many on the market now, its a
question of finding one that suits you, Picos offer a good way forward in my
oppinion. Light emitting polymer flexi screens are on thier way I wonder if
these will be of intrest, A recent harry potter magazine use a single sheet
to display 40 mins of video...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tom,
Because of my background in computer systems and technician fields, I
was able to change what equipment was on my desk before I became
seriously disabled. I learned a year beforehand, in 1992, that different
equipment made me feel differently (or at the time, I mostly described
as what I could Hear differently causing the mild headache.)

Because of that, When I started getting sufficiently better in 1998 to
dabble with computers again, I had a couple experiences that hammered
this knowledge into what brain I has recovering. One computer I could
not tolerate after only 5 minutes, and another, took far longer to
bother me.
Because of my technical background, it was simple for me to try
different combinations of cards, motherboard, power supply, and later
this year, I have even had differing symptoms from just changing memory
simms.

I have listed what boards and cards I have had better results from, in
the archives, I realize that might take too long to search for, but take
this away from my words: Different equipment has different emissions.
If the video card is too new and loud, try something simpler.
Get a power supply with filter, put GS filters into the plugins and
Measure with a GS meter the results.
Surprisingly, some faster chips, AMD Athlon at 2Ghz is better than older
and slow. Focus instead on the motherboard. I like ASUS, but that
probably only applies to the specific ones I have tested.

If it makes noise on an AM radio across the building/house, then replace it.

Also remember to try changing the video frequency, resolution, and
refresh rates. It makes a big difference.

Even with the above advice, I still need to have rest from being near
any electrical, especially as the neighborhood noise and towers increase.

Good luck,
Stewart

Running on:
ASUS A7V880 motherboard
AMD Sempron 3000 cpu
NVidia Geforce4 MX440 (best) or Geforce FX 5200 video card (work capable)
Infineon PC3200 512Mb SDRAM memory
Sunpower 300W ATX power supply
Lian-Li Metal tower case
IBM 3 button mouse
3M PS/2 gold plated extension cables
IBM 101-key keyboard (ancient, and does show up on meter...keep hands
from resting on keyboard)
Planar PL1700 LCD monitor

Actiontec call waiting modem
GE 2-9316 phone

(or) backup equipment is:
Soyo 7VBA133U motherboard (very quiet Intel based, but slower)
Asus A7V8X-X motherboard

Marginally okay:
MSI K7T266Pro2 motherboard (not really recommended)
Viewsonic VX900 LCD monitor

Discard as noisy:
NVidia Geforce6 6200
NVidia Geforce7 7300GT
Nvidia Geforce5 FX5900 in 3 different brands, varying noise, all rejected.
PowMax 300W dual power supply
PowMax power supply
Logitech trackman marble mouse
KSI 3096WT6a IR keyboard
IBM Thinkpad A20M 262841U laptop
Diamond SupraExpress 56e 56K V.92 Ext
GE 2-9380 speaker phone
GE 2-9435 phone
IBM Model 57
IBM Model 77 (ancient, but was better than most of the alternatives at
the time)



tomfromwisconsin wrote:
> Does anyone have further thoughts on this? I'm still exploring all options as I know that computers will be part of my daily life. I'd like to explore all options for shielding and other alternatives.
>
>
>

--- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote:


What I do is I coneect my laptop that is in one corner of my room to my monitor that in the opposite corner. I connect them with a DVI "fiber optic" extender and connect my keyboard & mouse with a long USB cable that is wrapped about 20 times around a ferrite 43 material torroid. I also connect my monitor and computer to tripp lite Isobars surge suppresors which have absolutely excellent RFI/EMI filters they filter all the dirty electricity from being amplified by my computer & monitor and from the computer and monitor from throwing out dirty electricity back into my house wires.

This has helped me tremendously, before I could only be like 5 minutes on the computer before my throat would swell and the symptoms started happeningnow I can use my computer for about 3-4hours and I only feel minor symptoms which are very tolerable.

I realized after expermenting ALOT is that the symptoms I felt where from the computer being coneected to the monitor via the copper cables that are used. This allows pretty much all the RF noise genereated from the computer to be amplified tremendously by the monitor, with a fiber optic cable it eliminates this problem because no EMF get transfered from the computer to monitor.

Fiber optic cables send a signal through light through a plactic or glass fiber optic cable.

Regards
-Cristian

cris_aov wrote:
> I also connect my monitor and computer to tripp lite Isobars surge suppresors which have absolutely excellent RFI/EMI filters they filter all the dirty electricity from being

I second that, I forgot to mention my chain of surge protectors.
Tripp Lite Isobar is excellent.

> RF noise genereated from the computer to be amplified tremendously by the monitor, with a fiber optic cable it eliminates this problem because no EMF get transfered from the computer to monitor.
>
> Fiber optic cables send a signal through light through a plactic or glass fiber optic cable.
>

I'll have to look into DVI fiber optic extension, that sounds like a
good idea.
Do they make fiber optic extensions for Mouse and Keyboard yet? That is
my weak link right now.
I can measure the noise from the keyboard and mouse on my Zapp Checker.

That is another reason I am using the currently mentioned motherboard,
the mouse is not blasting me like some other boards do.

Stewart

How does that compare to the Stetzer filters?  Does that reduce the EMF then coming from the monitor?  Loni

--- On Sun, 11/22/09, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: NEWBIE: Seeking Ways To Shield My Computer
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 8:21 AM


 



cris_aov wrote:
> I also connect my monitor and computer to tripp lite Isobars surge suppresors which have absolutely excellent RFI/EMI filters they filter all the dirty electricity from being

I second that, I forgot to mention my chain of surge protectors.
Tripp Lite Isobar is excellent.

> RF noise genereated from the computer to be amplified tremendously by themonitor, with a fiber optic cable it eliminates this problem because no EMF get transfered from the computer to monitor.
>
> Fiber optic cables send a signal through light through a plactic or glassfiber optic cable.
>

I'll have to look into DVI fiber optic extension, that sounds like a
good idea.
Do they make fiber optic extensions for Mouse and Keyboard yet? That is
my weak link right now.
I can measure the noise from the keyboard and mouse on my Zapp Checker.

That is another reason I am using the currently mentioned motherboard,
the mouse is not blasting me like some other boards do.

Stewart









     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Loni,
I don't think regular surge protectors have the same function as stetzer
filters. Different method too.
A stetzer filter will not protect your equipment from surges and other
spikes in the voltage.
Best to have both.

No, the purpose of filtering at the AC wiring, is to keep the noise from
traveling outward on the wiring in your room or home/office.
Or if your neighborhood is noisy, to keep outside noise from spiking
your computer. This is a common cause for lock-ups. (categorically speaking)

Also, I read you are worried about frequencies coming off your monitor.
Changing monitor brands makes a difference. Changing the video
frequency, refresh, and resolution definitely makes a difference.
Changing the video card definitely makes a difference.

Stewart

Loni wrote:
> How does that compare to the Stetzer filters? Does that reduce the EMF then coming from the monitor? Loni
>

> I second that, I forgot to mention my chain of surge protectors.
> Tripp Lite Isobar is excellent.
>
>

Hi Stewart, yes they do make fiber optic extenders for USB also. Im currently looking at one thats made by a company called RTcom sold at B&H photo.

You could also consider instead buying two ferrite torroids to wrap the usbcable at both ends. Theres a website called amidoncorp.com that sells themI would recommend 43 material torroid with an inner diameter big enough towrap about 14-20 turns of the USB cable on it. Check out part # FT-240-43.This would be alot cheaper than buying a USB fiber optic extender and might provide you with enough relief of your symptoms from the mouse and keyboard. This doesnt work as well for DVI cables as it does for USB.

Also consider buying a keyboard that has built in USB inserts, that way youcan connect your mouse directly to the keyboard instead of connecting it directly to your computer.


There is two types of fiber optic extenders, theres the Hybrid extenders which are powered by the computer, theres a cooper cable inside just to powerthe cable at both ends all the data is transmitted through fiber optic though. The other type is ones that is powered by an adapter on the recieving side where its connected to the monitor and uses detachable fiber optic cables from computer to monitor. This one is more expensive though than the hybrid.

Ive tried and own both of these the and the one that uses the power suppplyreduced my symptoms a little more than the hybrids, I did wrap the power supply cable with 15-20 turns on a torroid though which greatly reduced the rf noise generated by the power supply from getting to the monitor. The difference wasnt by a lot though the hybrid fiber optic cable still provided atremendous relief over the regular copper DVI cables.


The isobars are better than the Stetzer filters. I have a stezer meter andanother meter made by entech that detects dirty electricity at a much wider frequency range and it also lets you hear the dirty electricity with its built in speaker. The isobars brought the readings dowm on both meters alotmore than the stetzer filters did !!!

-Cristian

In a message dated 23/11/2009 08:26:39 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

The isobars are better than the Stetzer filters. I have a stezer meter and
another meter made by entech that detects dirty electricity at a much
wider frequency range and it also lets you hear the dirty electricity with its
built in speaker. The isobars brought the readings dowm on both meters alot
more than the stetzer filters did !!!

-Cristian




PUK replies - can you give more details on the isobars and entech meter
please


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Could you please point me to the Entech meter and the Isobar that you toldus about.

I would like to learn more about them. Stetzer now has powerbars with dualchannel filtering that work well - but I would like to compare the readings with the Entech meter you talk about.


On 2009-11-23, at 6:21 AM, [hidden email] wrote:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also, I read you are worried about frequencies coming off your monitor.
Changing monitor brands makes a difference. Changing the video
frequency, refresh, and resolution definitely makes a difference.
Changing the video card definitely makes a difference.

I don't understand how to change video frequency etc. ?  Loni
 
 
 
 

--- On Sun, 11/22/09, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: NEWBIE: Seeking Ways To Shield My Computer
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, November 22, 2009, 4:35 PM


 



Hi Loni,
I don't think regular surge protectors have the same function as stetzer
filters. Different method too.
A stetzer filter will not protect your equipment from surges and other
spikes in the voltage.
Best to have both.

No, the purpose of filtering at the AC wiring, is to keep the noise from
traveling outward on the wiring in your room or home/office.
Or if your neighborhood is noisy, to keep outside noise from spiking
your computer. This is a common cause for lock-ups. (categorically speaking)

Stewart

Loni wrote:
> How does that compare to the Stetzer filters? Does that reduce the EMF then coming from the monitor? Loni
>

> I second that, I forgot to mention my chain of surge protectors.
> Tripp Lite Isobar is excellent.
>
>









     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I don't understand how to change video frequency etc. ?  Loni

If you're using Microsoft Windows, you can change some things
via "Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Display -> Settings".

On my LCD monitor, I see I only have one refresh choice -- 60 hz.
But there are lots of resolution choices. I find the lower
the resolution, the easier it is to tolerate. Probably something
to do with the video card or the monitor cable, since the LCD
panel has a fixed resolution.

Marc

> The isobars are better than the Stetzer filters. I have a stezer meter
> and another meter made by entech that detects dirty electricity at a much
> wider frequency range and it also lets you hear the dirty electricity
> with its built in speaker. The isobars brought the readings dowm on both
> meters alot more than the stetzer filters did !!!

My Furman power strips with "linear filtering" also lower the Stetzer
meter readings nicely, but I've never tried an IsoBar power strip
to compare...

Marc

Does the entech meter have a 2prong plug like the
Stetzer meter? Does it work if the breaker for
that outlet is off?

It is not hard to beat a Stetzer if you have a series
choke as well as a capacitor. I know some of
these power strip surge protectors do have chokes.

Some also say "zero ground contamination" which
is good, but I don't know if those have chokes.

Generally the heavier the unit (for a given current
rating) the bigger the choke, and the better it will
work. One can look at an insertion loss graph but
they can make it look good by using a high impendance
source. 50 ohm source and load is standard, but
for low frequencies this is too optimistic, the real
impedance of the source can be much lower.

Given two filters with the same specs, the one with
less capacitance means less current, and better
performance on low impedance sources. Some
good DMMs can measure capacitance. A Stetzer is
22 uF. A FilterConcepts LM series (low leakage for
medical equipment) is 2 uF.

When there is common mode noise on the lines
from outside the only thing that will work is a big
filter, away from the house, with an RF type of ground
in the earth.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> The difference wasnt by a lot though the hybrid fiber optic
> cable still provided a tremendous relief over the regular copper DVI
> cables.

These fiber optic DVI cables are quite expensive, aren't they? The
cheapest I found (in my admittedly quick search) was $300:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Cables/fiber_oc.asp

Marc

Bill,

Yes the entech meter has a two prong power cord and it still reads the rf current in the house wiring even if the breakers are off beause it uses a 9 volt battery. There is two type of ENTech dirty electricty meter I have both. One is the one Im talking about that uses a battery it also has a EMI noise finder built-in though its not very good, and theres another one that doesnt use a battery this one is not as good though because it has a narrow bandwith, I would say it might be as good as the stezerizer meter though AND this one only costs 10 BUCKS shipped on ebay!!! The one I use goes for 50-80$ on ebay.

The isobars do have chokes as well as capacitors, whats also cool about them is that they bring down the readings on nearby outlets that are not connected to the isobar and much better than a stetzer filter does. Its also has a metal case not plastic.


Heres some info I found on Amazon

""""# Isobar's unique protection system combines large torroidal chokes, ferrite rod-core inductors, HF/VHF capacitors and multiple layers of metal oxide varistors into exclusive isolated filter banks that remove EMI/RFI interference

# ISOBAR8ULTRA offers 8 outlets arranged in four filter banks to prevent system crashes, reboots and performance problems common as noisy system peripherals are powered off and on.""""""

So if you have a 8 outlet version for instance you would only plug in 4 things one in each channel, since it only has 4 isolated channels.

__

You can buy isobars online they are called tripp lite isobars. They come in4,6,8 outlet versions. They come in a white metal case. prices run from about 15-65$ each I belive, I personally have only tried the 6 outlet versions though. I just bought two 8 and two 4 outlet versions that havnt arrived yet. I also plan on buying one they make called HT10DBS which has 10 oultets for my home theater system.


-Crsitan


 

In a message dated 24/11/2009 09:00:55 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

Yes the entech meter has a two prong power cord and it still reads the rf
current in the house wiring even if the breakers are off beause it uses a 9
volt battery. There is two type of ENTech dirty electricty meter I have
both. One is the one Im talking about that uses a battery it also has a EMI
noise finder built-in though its not very good, and theres another one that
doesnt use a battery this one is not as good though because it has a narrow
bandwith, I would say it might be as good as the


PUK replies - cant find the ENTech meter on ebay any more info please


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heres the link I just typed entech and clicked search, I use the one thats selling for 59$ +shipping

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=entech&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&_odkw=ihp+120&_osacat=0

BTW in case anyone is interested I have two hybrid DVI fiber optic cables Im not using one is 33ft the other 66ft. Id be happy to loan them out to people that want to try them out, they are worth about 300$ each though so we would have to work some kind of deal. Feel free to e-mail me if your interested.

Please explain what these are... are they powered and if so by
what?

Bill

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 6:05 AM, cris_aov <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Please explain what these are... are they powered and if so by
> what?

DVI cables have a "pin" for power... I assume these use that.
The video signal is sent over fiber optic cable, which gives
a different reaction to those sensitive to video cables (I
personally did not find it "better" than my regular old
VGA cable)

Marc