Little tolerence for supplaments

I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by getting
all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly, my body
reacts to these to strongly. My ES symptoms startred getting worse, my body
started vibrating, every nerve in my body got stimulated, and after a few
days of this my muscles and tendons started to hurt badly. I got scared and
stopped, and now I feel a bit better again. I don't know what to do. How
can I detox of I can't intake supplemnts. this is a new thing this lack of
tolerence for supplaments. I can't even take a multi vitamn. strange.

the only thing that seems to be absorbed well, in the meantime, is
probiotecs.


HIllel

Foot baths (Ion Cleanse, Q2, Aqua Chi, etc) and infared sauna may be an
alternative for the time being.
How are you with natural cilantro and sea weed products?
Go slow.
my best to you in finding what works,
Andrew
On Feb 24, 2005, at 4:45 PM, Hillel Wahrman wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by
> getting all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly,
> my body reacts to these to strongly.

Did you start taking multiple supplements all at the same time? It
sounds like you could simply be overdoing it, and you may need to
only use one supplement (or fewer supplements) at a time, and
possibly also at less than the recommended dosage.

You should experiment and see if there is a reduced dosage that
makes you feel better. Anytime something makes you feel worse,
you need to either reduce the dosage, or stop taking it altogether.

Marc

Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back by
something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this list -
- but when you're sensitive to electricity, chances are you're
sensitive to pretty much everything else too. I think Andrew and Marc
are right: be patient, go slow. We found that if we take fewer things
and add new supplements one at a time it's easier to determine which
might be causing a problem. Also my husband has been using his
intuition to choose which supplement his body is ready for at a given
moment in time. For some reason this seems to help (fewer bad
reactions). Can't explain it. Eventually we hope his tolerance will
improve and he'll be able to take the "stronger" stuff.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@h...> wrote:
> I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by
getting
> all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly,
my body
> reacts to these to strongly.

Agree with you 100% Hillel and Cara, it`s a really tough situation. Sue has had the same. In fact the hospital we`ve been visiting (specialising in MCS etc) reckon that food intolerances and gut allergy-type problems can be the original root cause of the problem - the body isn`t taking in the beneficial nutrients and chemicals it should, or the immune system is reacting against them. So the essential nutrients get run down, and then you develop MCS, ES etc. Oral supplements won`t then help because they won`t ingest, or the body reacts against them just as before. Hence their approach of trying intravenous infusions and injections. Can`t say it`s had any obvious effect on Sue`s ES yet but it has helped some of her other symptoms. They also try to desensitize the gut as a long term solution - it seems to have worked at least for some people we met. Sue has had negative reactions to NAC and lots of other supplements which ought to be really good for you.

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Cara
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:58 PM
Subject: [eSens] Re: Little tolerence for supplaments



Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back by
something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this list -
- but when you're sensitive to electricity, chances are you're
sensitive to pretty much everything else too. I think Andrew and Marc
are right: be patient, go slow. We found that if we take fewer things
and add new supplements one at a time it's easier to determine which
might be causing a problem. Also my husband has been using his
intuition to choose which supplement his body is ready for at a given
moment in time. For some reason this seems to help (fewer bad
reactions). Can't explain it. Eventually we hope his tolerance will
improve and he'll be able to take the "stronger" stuff.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@h...> wrote:
> I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by
getting
> all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly,
my body
> reacts to these to strongly.




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Supplements can be a real mixed bag in a lot of ways. Ionic trace minerals are probably the best way to start, as they can really help to balance the electrical conductivity on a cellular level which is what gets whacked out in most of us. Many if not most vitamin supplements can be downright toxic in the body. Most of them are not in a form that is particularly assimilatible or even recognizable by our bodies.

I gave up all supplements, and now ferment minerals, and natural sources for vitamins and minerals in EM (which can be searched on web) which stands for Effective or Efficient Microbes. The fermenting process renders all toxicity harmless, while augmenting and making the nutrients live and far more bioavailable. It takes some doing and learning about it, but is easy to do once you get the hang of it. EM, when approached with intention can reorganize and "heal" nearly any environment, inner and outer, including electrical and magnetic field incoherence. Though it is a good idea to address the harmful outer sources as much as possible as well. It's alive, beneficial, intelligent, and available for deliberate co-creation. Well worth looking into. EM produce a broad spectrum of antioxidants and B vitamins as well as probiotics on their own, as well as augmenting anything that you add to it.

Tonio
who has been reading from the sidelines for about a month



Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back by
something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this list -
- but when you're sensitive to electricity, chances are you're
sensitive to pretty much everything else too. I think Andrew and Marc
are right: be patient, go slow. We found that if we take fewer things
and add new supplements one at a time it's easier to determine which
might be causing a problem. Also my husband has been using his
intuition to choose which supplement his body is ready for at a given
moment in time. For some reason this seems to help (fewer bad
reactions). Can't explain it. Eventually we hope his tolerance will
improve and he'll be able to take the "stronger" stuff.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@h...> wrote:
> I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by
getting
> all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly,
my body
> reacts to these to strongly.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Cara,
Is anyone is the group familiar with doing a muscle test to see if
your body will except the supplement or food...Debbie



--- In [hidden email], "Cara" <cara_evangelista@h...> wrote:
>
> Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back
by
> something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
> and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
> few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this
list -

Yes Debbie, I think muscle testing has been discussed here; at
least I know a few members have offered this suggestion to me
(perhaps it was offline). In our case, however, my husband's
system is so out of whack that muscle testing doesn't seem to
work at all for him. Apparently this is not unusual in ES folks,
especially at this very early stage in recovery.

A friend of mine explained that I can also act as a surrogate for
my husband during muscle testing, i.e. ask my body questions
about how my husband's body will respond to supplements. I
don't seem to have the hang of this yet.

We finally decided to line up all the supplements on a table and
have my husband arrange them in order of what his body
seemed most interested in taking... We picked out the top three
or so and that's what he's started with. Sometimes I'll check in
with him about a supplement that is on "hold," in case the timing
has improved for it -- if so, we add it to the program. He's taking
up to eight now, maybe more, and not having any particular
adverse reactions as far as I can tell. (Jury is still out on actual
improvement of symptoms.)

If this method sounds a bit wacky to folks here, be assured that it
does to us also. We do it anyway. :-)

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "devorah91"
<devorah888@s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Cara,
> Is anyone is the group familiar with doing a muscle test to see
if
> your body will accept the supplement or food...Debbie

My gut feeling (pun intended)is setteling for proboitecs right now.
ALL vitamns seem to get me over stimulated, and NAC gets my heart
beat to speed up, which realy scared me. I Assume I have a digestive
problem since I'v had stomach problems for a month no, and I wonder
if I have a leaky gut, issue discussed here on the forum.

I guess all is left now is to heal slowly by just eating better,
and enjoy the Israeli spring weather we just got here. I wonder how
I can indepently iliminate which FOODS I am allergic too, so I can
at least eat.


HIllel

--- In [hidden email], "Cara" <cara_evangelista@h...> wrote:
>
> Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back
by
> something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
> and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
> few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this
list -
> - but when you're sensitive to electricity, chances are you're
> sensitive to pretty much everything else too. I think Andrew and
Marc
> are right: be patient, go slow. We found that if we take fewer
things
> and add new supplements one at a time it's easier to determine
which
> might be causing a problem. Also my husband has been using his
> intuition to choose which supplement his body is ready for at a
given
> moment in time. For some reason this seems to help (fewer bad
> reactions). Can't explain it. Eventually we hope his tolerance
will
> improve and he'll be able to take the "stronger" stuff.
>
> Cara
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@h...>
wrote:
> > I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces,
by
> getting
> > all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants.
Unfortanitly,
> my body
> > reacts to these to strongly.

It is quite easy to use a pendulum and get some feedback from your
energetic system. Just hold it in your dominant hand over your other
hand and begin by saying, "Show me a yes." See which way it swings and
then ask it "show me a no." I always get forward and backward is "yes"
and left to right is "no". The way I think this works is the energy
field from my body encases the pendulum and reflects my body's reaction
to a thought or stimuli.
Place an object in your hand or on your lap and ask, "is this _____
beneficial for me right now?"
I like using small wooden bulb on a light string about 8 inches long
though metal and crystals work beautifully too .
I am beginning to feel the answer in my body before the pendulum
swings. I hope to get to the point where I don't need the pendulum to
get the answer.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
On Feb 25, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Cara wrote:

Hillel, I bet your instinct about probiotics is right. One thing I'm
learning about ES is that your body often knows things that your mind
is slower to take in. Your stomach problems sound just like my
husband's, by the way -- he is sensitive to foods also. One MD I
spoke with recently (specialist in chelation therapy, yeast, etc)
mentioned that ES is often one of the later "allergies" that develops
when a person's immune system is compromised; that other
sensitivities such as food often develop first. The implication
seemed to be, if we pay attention to the digestive problems and
address the underlying immune system issues sooner, we may be able to
avoid the ES... Personally I don't know if this hierarchical view of
sensitivities has any real basis but it's interesting.

In any case, have you tried milk thistle? This supports the liver, I
think, and it is one of the first supplements that my husband could
tolerate and that noticeably helped with digestive issues.

If you are curious about leaky gut and yeast syndrome (related
problems that affect digestion), I just checked out some library
books on these topics and am reviewing them now. Contact me offline
if you want my recommended reading list. :-)

Cara


--- In [hidden email], "hillelwahrman" <whillel@h...> wrote:
>
> My gut feeling (pun intended)is setteling for proboitecs right now.
.

Hello,


Interesting , I will look into that.

In an on-line article called to B12 or not to B12, David Yarrow suggests a special kind of fermentation as the only way to get the body to accept B12 and solve the nutritional crisis of B-12 deficiency. He suggests miso and I drink a a lot of miso-soup.

For the rest of the B vitamins, again, I have always used brewers yeast. Have some DHEA and sometimes take that for the rest I try to get my antioxidants through diet. A supplement called Colon cleanse (PAL) works very good for me and now I use purim, the detoxifier, from Himalaya herbal healthcare (indicated for acne, but I liked the ingredients, it has a website on it, mabe they have more good ones: www.himalayahealthcare.com

Love and Light



tonio epstein <[hidden email]> wrote:

Supplements can be a real mixed bag in a lot of ways. Ionic trace minerals are probably the best way to start, as they can really help to balance the electrical conductivity on a cellular level which is what gets whacked out in most of us. Many if not most vitamin supplements can be downright toxic in the body. Most of them are not in a form that is particularly assimilatible or even recognizable by our bodies.

I gave up all supplements, and now ferment minerals, and natural sources for vitamins and minerals in EM (which can be searched on web) which stands for Effective or Efficient Microbes. The fermenting process renders all toxicity harmless, while augmenting and making the nutrients live and far more bioavailable. It takes some doing and learning about it, but is easy to do once you get the hang of it. EM, when approached with intention can reorganize and "heal" nearly any environment, inner and outer, including electrical and magnetic field incoherence. Though it is a good idea to address the harmful outer sources as much as possible as well. It's alive, beneficial, intelligent, and available for deliberate co-creation. Well worth looking into. EM produce a broad spectrum of antioxidants and B vitamins as well as probiotics on their own, as well as augmenting anything that you add to it.

Tonio
who has been reading from the sidelines for about a month



Boy, do I hear you, Hillel. It's discouraging to be knocked back by
something that's supposed to help. This is exactly what my husband
and I are dealing with. We started on the supplements, etc. just a
few weeks before you did -- lots of great suggestions from this list -
- but when you're sensitive to electricity, chances are you're
sensitive to pretty much everything else too. I think Andrew and Marc
are right: be patient, go slow. We found that if we take fewer things
and add new supplements one at a time it's easier to determine which
might be causing a problem. Also my husband has been using his
intuition to choose which supplement his body is ready for at a given
moment in time. For some reason this seems to help (fewer bad
reactions). Can't explain it. Eventually we hope his tolerance will
improve and he'll be able to take the "stronger" stuff.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], "Hillel Wahrman" <whillel@h...> wrote:
> I startred al excited on what I thought will be a detox procces, by
getting
> all these antioxcidants, NAC and other supplemants. Unfortanitly,
my body
> reacts to these to strongly.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> One MD I
> spoke with recently (specialist in chelation therapy, yeast, etc)
> mentioned that ES is often one of the later "allergies" that develops
> when a person's immune system is compromised; that other
> sensitivities such as food often develop first.

Well, for what it's worth, that's how it happened with me... I had
pollen & animal allergies for decades, and then in the year that
I got ES, I first got problems with certain foods and chemical
sensitivities... so for me, ES could indeed be classified as
"yet ANOTHER allergy"...

Marc

> In any case, have you tried milk thistle? This supports the liver, I
> think, and it is one of the first supplements that my husband could
> tolerate and that noticeably helped with digestive issues.

Alternately, something with the herbs Bluperium or Rehmannia may
be helpful for the liver. I originally tried a variety of Milk Thistles
for months, but they never seemed to do anything, and when I eventually
got muscle tested they didn't test positive.

However, when I later tried the liver/adrenal support formula "Rehmannia
Complex", that OBVIOUSLY helped my liver cope with the toxins it
needed to process.

Here is a link to a description & ingredients list of Rehmannia Complex:

http://store.yahoo.com/spinelife/reco40t.html

Marc

Tonio, thanks for your post. I just read this article on EM
(Efficient Microbes) - very interesting:
http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=3665

And I found EM available to order at this site:
http://www.scdworld.com/product.cfm?product_id=040101

But from your post it sounds like you ferment your own EM rather than
ordering it and then activating the stuff from the bottle? Can you
say more about what you do, which sources you have used, and what
effects (good and bad) you have personally experienced?

Cara

--- In [hidden email], tonio epstein <tonio@t...> wrote:
I gave up all supplements, and now ferment minerals, and natural
sources for vitamins and minerals in EM (which can be searched on
web) which stands for Effective or Efficient Microbes. The fermenting
process renders all toxicity harmless, while augmenting and making
the nutrients live and far more bioavailable. It takes some doing and
learning about it, but is easy to do once you get the hang of it.

Intuitively I tend to agree. My husband also developed food
intolerances (and light, and sound, and smell sensitivities etc etc
etc) long before we noticed he was also ES. In our case though we
were so oblivious to the physical symptoms for so long that I am
hesitant to say which issues actually manifested first.

Cara

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:

> Well, for what it's worth, that's how it happened with me... I had
> pollen & animal allergies for decades, and then in the year that
> I got ES, I first got problems with certain foods and chemical
> sensitivities... so for me, ES could indeed be classified as
> "yet ANOTHER allergy"...
>
> Marc

Hi Cara, I purchase EM starter from scdworld, as well as EM ceramics and Cera-C, which I use to make my EM brews. scdworld also sells an EM brewing guide which is an absolute must. I've been brewing EM from my own consumption and using it for household purposes, energizing water for about 6 months. I'm going through major changes in my life in all areas (not a pretty sight or experience, necessarily) so I cannot report definitively yet. But intuitively I sense that EM is very valuable for me.

I too find EM fascinating. Its appllications and benefits seem nearly endless. But it is a young field and it is up to people like us to explore the possibilities within our own lives. I did a workshop last summer with the founder of scdworld, Matthew Wood, here in Vermont. He/they do travel sometimes doing occasional workshops around the country. It was quite an eye opening experience. This is truly cutting edge technology that has amazing possible implications along the lines of quantum mechanics, information fields, "messages in water",....and it could help to heal the planet and all her inhabitants.
Tonio


Tonio, thanks for your post. I just read this article on EM
(Efficient Microbes) - very interesting:
http://www.odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=3665

And I found EM available to order at this site:
http://www.scdworld.com/product.cfm?product_id=040101

But from your post it sounds like you ferment your own EM rather than
ordering it and then activating the stuff from the bottle? Can you
say more about what you do, which sources you have used, and what
effects (good and bad) you have personally experienced?

Cara


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was intolerant to many of my supplements. After two
years of searching I found out that I was intolerant
of the filler magnesium stearate. (Not vegetable one)
just something to think about. Best wishes. nil
--- Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Hello,

These days I eat a lot of sushi and sashimi. Make it myself, very simple. Rice with rice vinegar, avacado, cucumber and fried egg slices, smoked salmon (or if you can get fresh enough tuna), roll it in the sheets, voila. Like it all, find the wasabi-hit cleansing, like the pickled ginger. Always make miso-soup to eat first.

Could it be the nutrients of the meal (including kelp, which some do not advise for our condition, but i never experienced any bad reaction from) get absorbed better because of the miso (fermented soy)? wonder if it even works that way for other supplements I take??

Love
Ellen


Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Could it be the nutrients of the meal (including kelp, which some do not
> advise for our condition, but i never experienced any bad reaction from)
> get absorbed better because of the miso (fermented soy)? wonder if it
> even works that way for other supplements I take??

For people who have copper toxicity, miso soup is also good because it
is
very high in zinc, which helps gets rid of the copper. Also, kelp has
almost always proved helpful for me. In fact, I've never heard of
anyone advising against kelp. Chlorella, yes. Spirulina, yes. But
not kelp.

For miso, I take the lazy approach and use "miso cup", which just
requires
adding water (also a good idea to use the organic one):

http://www.edwardandsons.com/miso_cup.html

Marc