Hey...just a thought in the dark here...Internet and all...

Are any of you, just a one of you, considering the EMF from your water, cleaners,
perfumes, hair sprays, deoderants (aluminum chloride based), salt, um....soft drinks,
benzine, air contaminants.

How many of you have eliminated PFOA by way of teflon...any non stick cooking product?

How mnay of you are thinking here? You want WHAT EMF WHAT for what? To measure
what? You are being poisoned.

How many of you know of the EMF of fluorophenyl? Or other calcium channel blockers?
Many ways to skin this EMF cat, you know.

You want protection? Let us get real and start looking at the dragon behindthis fire we are
all feeling. Please. It is our responsibility.

Okay...just want to see if anyone is thinking out there, like me, seeing "This IS SO NOT
GOOD". Hmmmmm....hello....I see lights...anyone?


Karen

Yes I am aware of many sources of chemicals that can lead to nerve
damage and have rid my house of teflon products as well as Aluminum in
all products and aware of the more obtuse ones like Barium from
Chemtrails,
http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
etc.
I would like to learn more about fluorophenyls and EMF.
Thank you for your experience in this area.
Andrew
On Apr 30, 2006, at 12:24 AM, tayloka_40 wrote:

I do FIR saunas as recommended in Sherry Roger's book, "Detoxify or Die".
Not everybody recommends FIR the way she does but it seems to work for me.
I have found it works very well to lower the body burden of mercury so that
the ALA I take according to the Andy Cutler method doesn't pull the mercury
into the brain but instead pulls it out of the brain.
----- Original Message -----
From: "tayloka_40" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: [eSens] Hey...just a thought in the dark here...Internet and all...


> Are any of you, just a one of you, considering the EMF from your water,
cleaners,
> perfumes, hair sprays, deoderants (aluminum chloride based), salt,
um....soft drinks,
> benzine, air contaminants.
>
> How many of you have eliminated PFOA by way of teflon...any non stick
cooking product?
>
> How mnay of you are thinking here? You want WHAT EMF WHAT for what? To
measure
> what? You are being poisoned.
>
> How many of you know of the EMF of fluorophenyl? Or other calcium channel
blockers?
> Many ways to skin this EMF cat, you know.
>
> You want protection? Let us get real and start looking at the dragon
behind this fire we are
> all feeling. Please. It is our responsibility.
>
> Okay...just want to see if anyone is thinking out there, like me, seeing
"This IS SO NOT

I mean no disrespect to those on the forum who would like to discuss
various sources of health threats, but I do see a lot being passed
for EMF issues that seem to bear no resemblance to EMF. I'm
surprised no-one has spoken up on this, as it's kind of getting out
of control, I think.

Electrosensitivity and EMF are quite well defined terms. As they are
almost universally used, EMF stands for Electro-Magnetic Fields, and
Electrosensitivity is biological/health sensitivity to EMF.

EMF is well defined. It contains of either an electric field, or
magnetic field, or both (electromagnetic field). These can be
static (DC) or oscillating at a frequency (AC or RF), although it's
the oscillating type that we usually discuss here. EMF is
generally considered measurable and quantifiable by using instruments
such as a spectrum analyzer or gaussmeter. The frequencies can be
determined, the amplitude measured, etc.

I thought this forum was to discuss EMF, that is, the EMF that is
electric or magnetic in nature, but there are a lot of messages
recently that make the assumption that EMF is something else...

For instance, On Apr 29, 2006, at 9:24 PM, tayloka_40 wrote:

These may all be valid health threats, but it is completely unclear
to me what they have to do with EMF or Electrosensitive people
(except that some electrosensitives may also be chemically sensitive,
but that doesn't make chemicals the same as EMF).

Yes, all molecules resonate at certain frequencies, but that doesn't
mean they GENERATE that frequency or generate EMF (at least not in
any sense that fits any standard definition of EMF, or even any
definition of EMF that I've ever heard of, and I was a physics major
and electromagnetics engineer, among other things).

I wouldn't have mentioned it if there was only one or two mails of
this type, but there have been enough mails of this type (talking
about chemicals as though they were EMF, FAQs about EMF that refer to
chemicals "generating" emf, etc) and responses to those mails, that
issues related to true electrosensitivity seem to be in the minority.

I guess my question is really to the moderator, regarding the charter
of the list. If it's to discuss EMF issues (of the electromagnetic
kind), then I would suggest it's a disservice to the community to
allow posts and FAQ's of this type to stand unchallenged, because it
gives the false sense that whatever is being talked about here is not
true EMF.

It also does a disservice to those people trying to accurately
understand what EMFs and electrosensitivity are about, and what to do
about it.

Sorry, not meaning to offend anyone, but I'm sure I have -- I'm just
hoping to return the discussion on this list to the facts about
electromagnetic sensitivity. Is there any way to do that?

Thank you for putting you preference out for the group to refine its
intention.
My understanding of this group is that it is an electrical sensitivity
group (esens), not an EMF group. I would like to include all those
illnesses, diseases, symptoms, reactions, blah blah... of anything that
causes or is related to ES. What causes ES may not be anything to do
with Electromagnetic Fields like Lyme disease, a thousand different
chemicals, etc. The subsequent nerve damage or hormone imbalance, DHEA,
DMAE, Acetyl Choline, neurotransmitters, etc. ad naus...
I don't totally understand what caused my ES so until I do with 100%
certainty, I would like to hear anything that causes ES in others.

Andrew

On May 3, 2006, at 2:23 AM, Garth Hitchens wrote:

Hi,

I do have about a 100% understanding of what caused my ES.. (write me off list andrew, there is a picture saw i wanna describe to you if you are interested).. Plus got rid of all es-symptoms and what i have been describing in my last post was getting the main culprit out, which is of such an importance i cannot describe//(this is big, for all of humanity, little miss me)

I do understand that sometimes we live in different worlds so i will try and be specific (T maybe we should "forget the weather We should always be together, try and see, focus everyone)

Love to all//

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: saw on the food network there is this chain of bars where they look at your tongue and then prescribe you this elixer (herbal you know licorice etc..) when i reach the land of the free and the Home of the brave i would try it (although i hope to be out before///) Good stuff, lots of help all around//


Andrew McAfee <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for putting you preference out for the group to refine its
intention.
My understanding of this group is that it is an electrical sensitivity
group (esens), not an EMF group. I would like to include all those
illnesses, diseases, symptoms, reactions, blah blah... of anything that
causes or is related to ES. What causes ES may not be anything to do
with Electromagnetic Fields like Lyme disease, a thousand different
chemicals, etc. The subsequent nerve damage or hormone imbalance, DHEA,
DMAE, Acetyl Choline, neurotransmitters, etc. ad naus...
I don't totally understand what caused my ES so until I do with 100%
certainty, I would like to hear anything that causes ES in others.

Andrew

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I thought this forum was to discuss EMF, that is, the EMF that is
> electric or magnetic in nature, but there are a lot of messages
> recently that make the assumption that EMF is something else...

This forum is not to discuss EMF, but rather dealing with
hypersensitive reactions to EMF.

But I agree with your point -- there seems to be a lot of posts
lately that appear to be off-topic, and if this continues these
people will be moderated and the off-topic posts will be deleted
before they get distributed to the list membership.

But if someone can prove to me how these posts are indeed
relevant, please do!

Marc

Cell Phones & Brain Tumors
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1911236/

--


http://www.teamhumanity.com/jointheteam.asp 



Dedicated to uniting all countries in peace

and cooperation, for the good of all people.

Show your support by joining today!

Yes, thanks, that was my point. I misspoke -- I agree that this is
about sensitivity to EMF. I agree with the posters who claim that
other factors (including chemical factors) can cause sensitivity to
EMF (electrical sensitivity), and I agree that discussion of those
factors is relevant.

My voiced concern had more to do with calling things electrical
fields that weren't. The fact that you are keeping an eye on this
addresses my concerns.

On May 3, 2006, at 7:08 AM, Marc Martin wrote:

> My voiced concern had more to do with calling things electrical
> fields that weren't. The fact that you are keeping an eye on this
> addresses my concerns.

The question a list moderator must always face is where to draw
the line between on-topic and off-topic. My feeling is that general
health-related posts with no connection to ES are off-topic, and
people who post such things are moderated and these posts are
deleted.

I also feel that posts along the lines of "Cell Phones Cause
Brain Cancer" are also off-topic here, although many such posts make
it through because I don't moderate every member and every post. My
feeling is that this group is not about the general long term
health-threat of EMFs, but rather about people who have an immediate
bad reaction to EMFs, and what they can do about it. People who are
interested in the long term health threats of EMF should look for
a different discussion group.

And certainly we have some group members who have used some very
non-conventional methods to solve their EMF sensitivity. I'm sure
that many subscribers may think that some of these methods are
unnacceptable or unbelievable, and shouldn't be allowed here.
However, since the list moderator (me) is fairly open-minded,
I allow these posts, because who am I to say that these methods
don't work for some people?

Marc

Hi, Garth,
   
I see where you are coming from and well, I kinda disagree. But I can understand your concern. You see ES from a totally electrical point of view.But there are differences in perspective among those here who have ES.
   
I just told Karen (Tayloka) a few days ago in a private email that peopleon this forum would have to be hiding under rocks not to know that toxins are somehow involved in the ES problem that we experience. So, to that end, I like info that relates to toxins and gives me a heads up as to new places to research or avoid things. I have never met a toxin that my body doesnot attract, yet totally dysfunction with. I have gotten gobs of useful and very helpful info from others in this forum in the past and that doesn'tinclude the geeky electro speak. (But I am not putting that down, it is needed too. I just don't understand most of it. lol) What I learn the most from here are effective helps--EFT and polarity switching (thanks, Snoshoe), clay, saunas, footbaths, negative water (thanks again, Marc)...--and toxins and how to draw out toxins. Everything else is pretty much lost on (non-technical) me.  

My 2 cents,
Diane
 
Garth Hitchens <[hidden email]> wrote:
I mean no disrespect to those on the forum who would like to discuss  
various sources of health threats, but I do see a lot being passed  
for EMF issues that seem to bear no resemblance to EMF. I'm  
surprised no-one has spoken up on this, as it's kind of getting out  
of control, I think.

Electrosensitivity and EMF are quite well defined terms. As they are  
almost universally used, EMF stands for Electro-Magnetic Fields, and  
Electrosensitivity is biological/health sensitivity to EMF.

EMF is well defined. It contains of either an electric field, or  
magnetic field, or both (electromagnetic field). These can be  
static (DC) or oscillating at a frequency (AC or RF), although it's  
the oscillating type that we usually discuss here. EMF is  
generally considered measurable and quantifiable by using instruments  
such as a spectrum analyzer or gaussmeter. The frequencies can be  
determined, the amplitude measured, etc.

I thought this forum was to discuss EMF, that is, the EMF that is  
electric or magnetic in nature, but there are a lot of messages  
recently that make the assumption that EMF is something else...

For instance, On Apr 29, 2006, at 9:24 PM, tayloka_40 wrote:

These may all be valid health threats, but it is completely unclear  
to me what they have to do with EMF or Electrosensitive people  
(except that some electrosensitives may also be chemically sensitive,  
but that doesn't make chemicals the same as EMF).

Yes, all molecules resonate at certain frequencies, but that doesn't  
mean they GENERATE that frequency or generate EMF (at least not in  
any sense that fits any standard definition of EMF, or even any  
definition of EMF that I've ever heard of, and I was a physics major  
and electromagnetics engineer, among other things).

I wouldn't have mentioned it if there was only one or two mails of  
this type, but there have been enough mails of this type (talking  
about chemicals as though they were EMF, FAQs about EMF that refer to  
chemicals "generating" emf, etc) and responses to those mails, that  
issues related to true electrosensitivity seem to be in the minority.

I guess my question is really to the moderator, regarding the charter  
of the list. If it's to discuss EMF issues (of the electromagnetic  
kind), then I would suggest it's a disservice to the community to  
allow posts and FAQ's of this type to stand unchallenged, because it  
gives the false sense that whatever is being talked about here is not  
true EMF.

It also does a disservice to those people trying to accurately  
understand what EMFs and electrosensitivity are about, and what to do  
about it.

Sorry, not meaning to offend anyone, but I'm sure I have -- I'm just  
hoping to return the discussion on this list to the facts about  
electromagnetic sensitivity. Is there any way to do that?



SPONSORED LINKS
Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellnessprogram Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Business health wellness
   
---------------------------------
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Visit your group "eSens" on the web.
   
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
   
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

   
---------------------------------
 



               
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane, Karen, et al, thanks for your responses!

You have been very gracious given that I'm directly disagreeing with
your views, and I'm trying to do the same! We're all searching for
answers and trying to help people here, and I respect that.

While I screwed up in making my point clear, I unfortunately still
disagree with you on a critical point, which seems important as it's
been repeated frequently throughout your various posts.

I have no problem discussing non-electromagnetic causes and cures for
electrosensitivity. I think it's very possible that there are lots
of chemicals (maybe flourine or halides, others, who knows) which
make us more susceptible to ES and perhaps some that make us less
ES. I think discussion of those is quite appropriate.

I also have no problem with discussion of some very non-traditional
cures for ES, such as EFT, which I agree may be of some help. (I
have found EFT to be of some benefit myself).

The issue I >do< have is when we start to define electromagnetic
fields as being "produced" by things like fabrics or chemicals or
water, which, in my opinion, is a distortion of the term
"electromagnetic field". If we are having direct reactions to
halides, flourine, etc, then I think we are talking about chemical
sensitivity not ES. There is no EMF or electricity involved.

As a clear example, if you put a bucket of sodium fluoride (or pick
your favorite toxic chemical) and a bucket of pure water next to each
other, I know of no basis for claiming you could measure any
difference in the EMF fields of the two buckets no matter how
expensive or accurate the test equipment. Yes, drinking one might
kill you, but not because of anything related to it producing an
electromagnetic field.

If you have any evidence that you COULD measure any difference in the
above example, I'll gladly reconsider my position and apologize for
being so irascible.

Hopefully respectfully, Garth