Have some decisions to make - help appreciated

Hi. Excuse me if this message seems rushed and disorganized (my writing abilities have been destroyed anyway by electrosensitivity and other problems)- I'm at a Kinko's typing this, paying for Internet Access by the minute -because the wireless router at my house hasn't been working for the past couple of days. (Fried router means no Internet.) More minutes mean more money, so...

I'm at the point where I feel the need to make a decision about buying another computer - hopefully to get away from - or find some relief from - the horrible EMF effects I've been experiencing from my laptop. I would greatly appreciate some help/feedback on what direction I need to go in to give me the greatest chances of success. According to this article on the "Conrad Biologic" website - certain laptop/netbooks would increase my chances of EMF tolerance than deskops. Has this been the experience of you guys here?

http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/%20LowEMFComputers.html

This article singles out the Apple Macbook as being a potentially "safe" purchase - this is the only brand name that the author bothers to mention. Has anyone had a successful experience with the Apple Macbook that would back up this claim?

There is little to no room for "error" for me - unlike what the article suggests, I just cannot envision myself going through an extensive "trial and error" process where I'm trying out several different computers, then returning the ones (through some "money back guarantee") that don't alleviate myproblem. What type of computers have you guys gravitated to the most to minimize emf problems - laptops or desktops? Could you name any specific kinds of laptops or desktops that have become "popular" here?

Based on what I had read in this forum - up until the point when I came across the article that I link above - I was beginning to "resign" myself to going back to a bulky, space-consuming desktop...because I had come across at least one suggestion that a desktop would be a safer bet. Well, the above article confuses the issue for me....laptop, or desktop? Making the right decision is obviously critical.

So please - any advice/help/suggestions on what computer set-ups have worked for you, or what types of computer/computer-set up would maximize my chances of success - are greatly needed/appreciated.

One fact/condition that may "complicate" matters is that any desktop setup will have to go in my bedroom (which I'm not crazy about at all - since my room is not large at all, pretty cramped for space - and having a computer in the general area where I sleep is an obvious risk). For several reasons, it would be impractical to have both a t.v. and a separate computer monitor in my room - so I will need one device that doubles as both a t.v. and acomputer monitor. If a desktop "tower" is needed - I would like for it tobe as small/space-efficient as possible....although if "bigger" towers have a stronger reputation for being "safer"...I would obviously consider that.

I could write more describing my "desperate" situation, but I'll stop here.Hopefully by tommorrow afternoon my home Internet will be back up and I won't have to make another trip to Kinko's. (I admit that a big reason for coming to Kinko's to begin with is to check out the computer and to see if I have a greater tolerance to this desktop/LCD monitor. The results are uncertain...but it seems that I've gotten some "headachy" symptoms in the 2-plus hours I've been here.)

Anyway, thanks in advance. :)

~Svetaswan

> What type of computers have you guys gravitated to
> the most to minimize emf problems - laptops or desktops? Could you name
> any specific kinds of laptops or desktops that have become "popular"
> here?

I know that some people here use laptops, but I can't imagine these being
easier to tolerate than a desktop. Maybe running off battery power, with
the wireless radio turned off, and an external keyboard and monitor?

Unfortunately, we don't see too many specific brands/models suggested here,
so I guess nobody feels their computer is good enough to recommend?
(my computer is pretty good, but it is a 5+ year old Sony tower. Our
laptop is not quite as good, but it a ~3 year old IBM Thinkpad)

I like tower computers myself, as that gives me some flexibility to
put in a different video card, ethernet card, etc. to try and make
any potential problems better. Also, they may be better shielded and
have less noisy power supplies than laptops (which may compromise on
shielding/quality due to space limitations).

Also, EMF protection devices can help make a computer more tolerable,
but that can be another trial & error process...

Marc

Hi All,



I've just bought an Asrock Nettop Ion 330 HT. It works with an Nvidia
ion. I've turned off the Wi-fi aspec as I will continue to use a broadband
modem. So far, I've only got round to taking readings from it, and haven't
had a chance to use it for a prolonged period. (It arrived yesterday
morning!!!)



Using a Trifield meter, magnetic reading comes out to be 2-3. And that's
even when I have all my peripherals on. E.g. usb hard drive, speakers,
modem etc. That's half my old PC readings of 5-6.



Using a stetzer monitor, Dirty electricity readings do not increase above
the reading for my house at all. So, even when it is functional, it shows
reading of 90-100. If I had a 100% clean electricity reading across my
house I reckon it would be less than this!



My old PC was coming out at 500-700 even when I had a series of stetzer
filters plugged in. Without them it was coming out at 1400-1800.



So, even though it's very early days, the indications point to a very low
EMF PC.



Regards



David





From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
svetaswan
Sent: 28 January 2010 05:20
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Have some decisions to make - help appreciated





Hi. Excuse me if this message seems rushed and disorganized (my writing
abilities have been destroyed anyway by electrosensitivity and other
problems) - I'm at a Kinko's typing this, paying for Internet Access by the
minute - because the wireless router at my house hasn't been working for the
past couple of days. (Fried router means no Internet.) More minutes mean
more money, so...

I'm at the point where I feel the need to make a decision about buying
another computer - hopefully to get away from - or find some relief from -
the horrible EMF effects I've been experiencing from my laptop. I would
greatly appreciate some help/feedback on what direction I need to go in to
give me the greatest chances of success. According to this article on the
"Conrad Biologic" website - certain laptop/netbooks would increase my
chances of EMF tolerance than deskops. Has this been the experience of you
guys here?

http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/%20LowEMFComputers.html

This article singles out the Apple Macbook as being a potentially "safe"
purchase - this is the only brand name that the author bothers to mention.
Has anyone had a successful experience with the Apple Macbook that would
back up this claim?

There is little to no room for "error" for me - unlike what the article
suggests, I just cannot envision myself going through an extensive "trial
and error" process where I'm trying out several different computers, then
returning the ones (through some "money back guarantee") that don't
alleviate my problem. What type of computers have you guys gravitated to the
most to minimize emf problems - laptops or desktops? Could you name any
specific kinds of laptops or desktops that have become "popular" here?

Based on what I had read in this forum - up until the point when I came
across the article that I link above - I was beginning to "resign" myself to
going back to a bulky, space-consuming desktop...because I had come across
at least one suggestion that a desktop would be a safer bet. Well, the above
article confuses the issue for me....laptop, or desktop? Making the right
decision is obviously critical.

So please - any advice/help/suggestions on what computer set-ups have worked
for you, or what types of computer/computer-set up would maximize my chances
of success - are greatly needed/appreciated.

One fact/condition that may "complicate" matters is that any desktop setup
will have to go in my bedroom (which I'm not crazy about at all - since my
room is not large at all, pretty cramped for space - and having a computer
in the general area where I sleep is an obvious risk). For several reasons,
it would be impractical to have both a t.v. and a separate computer monitor
in my room - so I will need one device that doubles as both a t.v. and a
computer monitor. If a desktop "tower" is needed - I would like for it to be
as small/space-efficient as possible....although if "bigger" towers have a
stronger reputation for being "safer"...I would obviously consider that.

I could write more describing my "desperate" situation, but I'll stop here.
Hopefully by tommorrow afternoon my home Internet will be back up and I
won't have to make another trip to Kinko's. (I admit that a big reason for
coming to Kinko's to begin with is to check out the computer and to see if I
have a greater tolerance to this desktop/LCD monitor. The results are
uncertain...but it seems that I've gotten some "headachy" symptoms in the
2-plus hours I've been here.)

Anyway, thanks in advance. :)

~Svetaswan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 28/01/2010 09:11:54 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I'm at the point where I feel the need to make a decision about buying
another computer - hopefully to get away from - or find some relief from -
the horrible EMF effects I've been experiencing from my laptop. I would
greatly appreciate some help/feedback on what direction


puk replies - I wonder what the Apple IPAD is like ? first thoughts are a
larger device that allows more intimate contact to the body for long periods
!??


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 28/01/2010 06:31:44 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

What type of computers have you guys gravitated to
> the most to minimize emf problems - laptops or desktops? Could you name
> any specific kinds of laptops or desktops that have become "popular"
> here?



Puk replies - for me distance is everything, I tried using AI squared
Zoomtext 8.1 on my laptop which zooms up the graphics as much as you like, the
only drawback is the panning that you have to do if you go to large, but I
would defiunately reccomend this software if you can get a cheap copy
otherwise its v.expensive. This helps to get a good 1.8m from the 15inch laptop
screen that I have with reasonable visual comfort. Ofcourse you still have
the mouse and keyboard to deal with.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I too get headaches from computer use... no fun.
If you push yourself too hard it will only get
worse.

WiFry router, your self defeating.

In one sense it's a good time to be shopping for
a laptop since intel just released their new 2010
core family of chips. I'd look for an ultraportable
with either of the following ultra-low-voltage chips,
1.2GHz Core i7-640UM, 1.06GHz Core i7-620UM and
1.06GHz Core i5-520UM. Either that or the lowest power
tower you can find.

I'd run the laptop on its battery, keep it at a distance
then get a monitor that emits the lowest magnetic field
Some have had success with BenQ.

There's no easy fix, and it's nothing to rush into.

Eli


--- In [hidden email], "svetaswan" <svetaswan@...> wrote:

> My old PC was coming out at 500-700 even when I had a series of stetzer
> filters plugged in. Without them it was coming out at 1400-1800.

Yikes! With my PC plugged into my Furman power strip, my Stetzer
readings are about 50... and I have zero Stetzer filters plugged in...

Speaking of new computers, I'll be getting a Lenovo ThinkCentre M58e
tower this week, so that'll be another piece of info I'll hopefully
have to report on soon...

Marc

I give a lot of credence to Richard Conrad's recommendation
(conradbiologic).

I've used some mac books. Some are better than others. The LED
screen is a big plus, and it has zooming software built in (look under
Accessibility on System Preferences). If you don't need lots of
disk space I would get the SSD drive too.

The only drawback with the newer ones is you can't swap batteries.
But the batteries are supposed to last 7 hours I think.

Yes use it unplugged and with external keyboard & mouse, keep the machine
4 feet away or more. Using the charger can be a problem... I charge
my batteries at work. Or get a linear supply with the right voltage.
I think Richard runs everything off lead acid storage batteries (the ones
smaller than car batteries) and has some chargers that aren't too bad.

I also use a mac mini with USB extension cables so I can keep it 8 feet
away.

If the fan bothers you run coolbook software to lower the chip
voltage...
Bill

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> If the fan bothers you run coolbook software to lower the chip
> voltage...

Interesting... I wonder if this software works for desktops as
well? I know there is also software which will throttle your
Internet connection, and I found his helpful for improving
tolerance for a high-speed Internet connection.

Marc

I just ran a quick test and tried a desktop (Dell E520
with a 17" DCL LCD Monitor), and compared it to a Dell
laptop (Inspiron 6000) which I periodically use. They're
both sitting on the same desk, using the same USB keyboard
and mouse, so things are fairly controlled.

There's no doubt the laptop is more tolerable.
Of course they both stink compared to my low emission
computer.

Eli

--- In [hidden email], "jaime_schunkewitz" <jaime_schunkewitz@...> wrote:

> There's no doubt the laptop is more tolerable.

Yeah, I guess it is clear from my own experience that one really can not
generalize on whether or not a laptop or desktop is better "in general".
One really needs to look at the specific models.

Marc

Hi Marc,



I've had all sorts of dirty electricity problems in my house! Initially the
readings across the whole house were off the scale of the monitor (above
1999). Got rid of all my fluorescent lighting, then had to ditch the LED
Evolux 13w bulbs (they have a fan which creates A/C noise). I'm back to
the old fashion 60w incandescent bulbs until I can find a better LED bulb.
I've also Re-earthed the house, and fitted a series of stetzer filters and
Belkin Pure AV power strips.



I've also fitted demand switches on to the upstairs and downstairs lighting,
and the sockets circuit. This means that I only have 0.5volts coming
through my walls at night. Before this was 16volts. I also use an
earthing mat which is connected to the radiator pipe. In turn, the water
pipes are earthed directly into the garden outside my house. (I've also
broken the water pipe connection to the outside water mains pipes with a
small piece of UVC pipe, so I'm not affected by any stray current coming
into the house.



I don't feel much impact at all from EMF or dirty electricity any more, so
at least things are better now! My new PC has stabilised the readings at
90. I've noticed thought that I can't get this down any further, even if
install further stetzer filters. I'm not sure why I can't get down any
lower?



Regards



David



PS Thanks to everyone on the forum, as I've gleaned some of my solutions
from the historic postings!



From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 28 January 2010 15:54
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Have some decisions to make - help appreciated





> My old PC was coming out at 500-700 even when I had a series of stetzer
> filters plugged in. Without them it was coming out at 1400-1800.

Yikes! With my PC plugged into my Furman power strip, my Stetzer
readings are about 50... and I have zero Stetzer filters plugged in...

Speaking of new computers, I'll be getting a Lenovo ThinkCentre M58e
tower this week, so that'll be another piece of info I'll hopefully
have to report on soon...

Marc





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

some MCS'ers have claimed the green Macbook Pro is well tolerated by them.





________________________________
From: jaime_schunkewitz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 11:59:14 AM
Subject: [eSens] Re: Have some decisions to make - help appreciated

 


I just ran a quick test and tried a desktop (Dell E520
with a 17" DCL LCD Monitor), and compared it to a Dell
laptop (Inspiron 6000) which I periodically use. They're
both sitting on the same desk, using the same USB keyboard
and mouse, so things are fairly controlled.

There's no doubt the laptop is more tolerable.
Of course they both stink compared to my low emission
computer.

Eli

--- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "jaime_schunkewitz" <jaime_schunkewitz@ ....> wrote:

 


     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 28/01/2010 21:38:38 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

I can't get this down any further, even if
install further stetzer filters. I'm not sure why I can't get down any
lower?



puk replies with a wild guess - maybe the mathematics of capacitance mean
that the system has reached its limit so each stetzer filter is dumping
overload back into the mains, a sort of cascade effect and since the electrons
in the circuit circulate in a non linear sequencial way all the stetzers
dump the same level of overload back into the system, plain an simply the
causative scource is to excessive to dampen any further with the type of
capacitors that you have.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
Well, my utter lack-of-knowledge and experience re: internal computer components would make "tinkering" with different internal components extremely difficult for someone like me - if not entirely out-of-the question. Given my "dire" situation, I think I'm going to have to make a decision a.s.a.p. - and not wait around to gain any level of expertise. Also making things difficult is that I've never had any real interest in learning about the "technical" aspects of computers - as I think it takes a certain intense interest level and drive to educate oneself about computer technology. Althoughmy electrosensitivity issues have given me a certain level of interest in this - I'm not sure if my interest/drive as at the level it needs to be to continuously "tinker" with internal components and to try other "advanced" techniques. (Maybe it would help if I weren't so brain-fogged.)  

Of course - my hand may be forced to become more of an "expert" if my electrosensitivity refuses to diminish with "simple" efforts - but for now, I'm going to try to keep it simple. I'm a person who has used computers extensively, but who has no real depth-of-understanding about their technology and how they actually work.

But your statement that desktop components may be better shielded and have less "noisy" power supplies is something that really resonates with me - it's one concept that I have some mild level of understanding of. For one thing, I can look to my previous experience with my old Gateway desktop as a reference-point. I recently took a look at my old Gateway tower/CRT monitor - which gave me little-to-no problems compared to this horrific Dell laptop, and found:

~A quite thick ("shielded"), grounded (three-pronged) power cord running directly from the Gateway tower. This tower used no AC/DC adapter; there wasjust this thick cord coming directly from the tower that was plugged into a power outlet.

~A thick, robust, three-pronged cord coming from the 15" CRT monitor that was plugged into a power outlet

~A thick, robust cord connecting the CRT monitor to the desktop tower

Perhaps these characteristics - no AC/DC converters producing "transients";thick, robust cables powering/connecting the "high EMF" components - helped make my Gateway tolerable. Also, the Gateway was used in our basement - which was much less protected from the winter cold, and didn't even get very warm during summer months. So the tower was kept (relatively) cool...andthe tower's fan/vents were located on the back of the device, on the opposite side from where I sat (further protecting me from radiation).  

Also the size of the device, as you suggested, may have offered superior shielding. My Dell laptop - only a small fraction of the size of my Gateway - is as much or more powerful; faster processor, more RAM, more harddrive space, etc.

I'm not sure if they're making desktops like this these days - with "old-fashioned", "shielded" AC power supplies; thick cables; etc. (My Gateway was purchased in 2001 - ancient history!) It seems that, even with many of thecurrent desktops out there, the trend is to go low power/low voltage - which often means AC/DC converters, and/or bothersome high-frequency EMF.

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], "David Clover" <davidc6162@...> wrote:
Sounds promising! Will you keep me posted on how things are going with this computer?

I want to thank everyone for their help/suggestions regarding my dilemma...I'm certainly taking everything into consideration as I struggle to make a decision. The main reason I haven't been able to respond sooner to you guys' suggestions is that (*grimace*) - my home Internet connection still hasn't been repaired. To make a long story short, Comcast's service has been absolutely pathetic - it's been a nightmare of misinformation, unprofessionalism, infuriating lapses, etc.. I just discovered today that this frustrating situation may be a blessing-in-disguise (let's *hope* something positive comes out of this). My parents may be switching to another Internet provider, which may give me the opportunity to have wired Internet installed. My options in this matter have been pretty limited because I'm not in control of the household - my parents are who are in control, and I'm a "slave" to their values and beliefs (or non-beliefs). As of now, they don't believe in the hazards of EMF and Wifi - whenever I attempt to alert them about this and share with them how the laptop has affected me, they pretty much dismiss me as a ranting, paranoid, "crazy" person.

However, I'm hoping that some compromise can be struck where they can have their WiFi, while some wired alternative can be installed in my room (and hopefully the den). It won't completely shield me from WiFi, of course - but at least it could potentially reduce my exposure by enabling me to shut off any internal WiFi components installed in the computer I use.

~Svetaswan

> I'm not sure if they're making desktops like this these days - with
> "old-fashioned", "shielded" AC power supplies; thick cables; etc.

Oh, I don't know about that... I've got a brand new Lenovo Thinkcentre
tower, and it looks pretty old fashioned to me... haven't tried plugging
it in yet, though!

Marc

Hi Bill,

Am I correct in thinking that, in general - laptops with a longer battery life are "safer" laptops? Of course, there can be all sorts of factors thatinfluence battery-life of a laptops (including the actual quality of the battery) - but I was thinking that perhaps a long battery life was a sign that the laptop is using less power, and possibly generating less EMF.

Of course, it could work the other way - laptops that can be run on such low power may be running on high-frequencies, and may generate (super) high-frequency EMF.

I'm just wondering if I can look at a laptop's battery-life as a general indicator of how tolerable it is.

Excuse me if this is off-base, but I've had "dark" thoughts that the "advancing" technology of laptops may mean that they are building (some) laptops such that they are more like giant cellphones - with the attendant dangers.How much do "modern" laptops resemble cellphones in how they operate? Isthere similar technology involved, where laptops are closing the gap on cellphones as far as hazardous radiation?

~Svetaswan



--- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions. I wish I had a deeper understanding of how computers work so I could truly understand exactly how a particular processor would influence on a computer's EMF.

I'm a bit confused as to whether or not "low voltage", and "low power" would actually translate to a tolerable computer experience. I thought that "low voltage" often involves AC/DC converters that produce a lot of troublinghigh-frequency "transients", and would lead to EMFs in that bothersome high-frequency range.

Is that "Energy Star" distinction that many computers have really a good thing for electrosensitives? "Energy Star" devices may consume less power, or less voltage - and (allegedly) shave dollars off our electric bills - butat what cost to our comfort and health? Are "Energy Star" products just wolves in sheeps' clothing? Do they compensate for "power conservation" by producing (super) high-frequency EMF?

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], "jaime_schunkewitz" <jaime_schunkewitz@...> wrote:

In a message dated 02/02/2010 04:20:38 GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

with the attendant dangers. How much do "modern" laptops resemble
cellphones in how they operate? Is there similar technology involved, where laptops
are closing the gap on cellphones as far as hazardous radiation?



puk - yeh the IPAD !


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