Flourescent Lights
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I do not suffer from EMH; however a friend of mine does. She is in her mid-80s and lives in a retirement home. She has been complaining about rashes, swollen throat, vibrations for some time. Until I provided her with a 181 page research document sponsored by the World Health Organization, her doctors and building owner thought she was a nut. Happily they now believe her. In an attempt to identify the source of the electrmagnetism, I bought a gauss meter and walked through the residential facility. It is clear to me that the major contributor of the EMF is the flourescent lights that areEVERYWHERE.
My question is: Has anyone had luck in getting building owners, employers,government agencies and the like to retrofit ighting systems? Any other tips you can offer? |
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> It is clear to me that the major contributor of the EMF is the
> flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. Yes, many people here have problems with flourescent lights. If you can get them to unscrew some wherever she spends most of her time, that might help. I don't know if there are any kinds of flourescent lights that are better than others, as people here typically just tend to avoid them. There do exist LED light tubes intended to be placed in flourescent light fixtures, that might be worth checking out. I've also had good luck with EMF protection devices around flourescent lights -- quantumproducts.com had the most effective devices to make me feel better around flourescent lights. Also, I found improvement by supplementing with H-Minus (an antioxidant), and I think some kinds of Vitamin A (even eating carrots!) helps. Marc |
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In reply to this post by maurmurr1
> It is clear to me that the major contributor of
> the EMF is the flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. Oh, and if there are the compact flourescent lights near where she spends lots of time, replacing those with incandescent or LED lights might help. Marc |
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Apparently there exist (or used to exist) special fluorescent tubes that
had a conductive layer for use in places where electronic interference was a problem. I've never seen them but have not really looked. It's not obvious they would solve the problem as the newer ballasts put out so much dirty power. But if the wiring is all in metal conduit, it might be worth a try. Sometimes there are metal cages put over the lights, and if those are grounded it would at least minimize the electric field. I think those LED tubes are designed to work with existing ballasts, which is too bad. Stetzer filters close to the ballasts might help, or simpler, just make sure there are no power cords near this person. Do you have a link to the WHO report? Bill On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > It is clear to me that the major contributor of > > the EMF is the flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. > > Oh, and if there are the compact flourescent lights near > where she spends lots of time, replacing those with > incandescent or LED lights might help. > > Marc > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Thank you all for the information. I will keep poking around and learn what I can. Here's the link to the WHO report.
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkijaWWZKDCQBMkpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyaWE3cmwwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0Y2NjZfODM-/SIG=130hrv5ba/EXP=1248308058/**http%3a//www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/reports/EHS_Proceedings_June2006.pdf --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote: > > Apparently there exist (or used to exist) special fluorescent tubes that > had a conductive layer for use in places where electronic interference > was a problem. I've never seen them but have not really looked. > It's not obvious they would solve the problem as the newer ballasts > put out so much dirty power. But if the wiring is all in metal conduit, > it might be worth a try. Sometimes there are metal cages put over the > lights, and if those are grounded it would at least minimize the electric > field. > > I think those LED tubes are designed to work with existing ballasts, > which is too bad. Stetzer filters close to the ballasts might help, > or simpler, just make sure there are no power cords near this person. > > Do you have a link to the WHO report? > Bill > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > It is clear to me that the major contributor of > > > the EMF is the flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. > > > > Oh, and if there are the compact flourescent lights near > > where she spends lots of time, replacing those with > > incandescent or LED lights might help. > > > > Marc > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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In reply to this post by maurmurr1
In a message dated 21/07/2009 18:10:06 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes: electrmagnetism, I bought a gauss meter and walked through the residential facility. It is clear to me that the major contributor of the EMF is the flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. My question is: Has anyone had luck in getting building owners, employers, government agencies and the like to retrofit ighting systems? Any other tips you can offer PAUL UK REPLIES The poor lady hasnt got a DECT phone or similar or perhaps one of the neighbours or worse still a whole load of them ? You checked for this I presume as well as mobile phone mast signals etc ? Paul uk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Unscrewing the lights may not help as it is likely that the electronics andnot the tubes are the problem. Also these circumstances are often in office settings where employees don't have the luxury of modifying the lighting conditions; and unfortunately you're unlikely to get any sympathy or understanding from fellow workers.
John L. --- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote: > > > It is clear to me that the major contributor of the EMF is the > > flourescent lights that are EVERYWHERE. > > Yes, many people here have problems with flourescent lights. If you can > get them to unscrew some wherever she spends most of her time, that > might help. I don't know if there are any kinds of flourescent lights > that are better than others, as people here typically just tend to avoid > them. There do exist LED light tubes intended to be placed in > flourescent light fixtures, that might be worth checking out... > Marc > |
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> Unscrewing the lights may not help as it is likely that the electronics
> and not the tubes are the problem. Also these circumstances are often in > office settings where employees don't have the luxury of modifying the > lighting conditions; Actually I have personal experience with this -- unscrewing the light tubes above my desk at work does indeed help! Marc |
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I'd agree that often disconnecting the bulbs helps.
If there are high magnetic field readings all around one also has to consider power lines and possible wiring errors. Any case where the same lights are controlled by more than one switch there's a good chance of a wiring error, and with fluorscents on the circuits the result is very bad. Check if turning off the lights lowers the field. Then try to find an electrician who understands neutral loops and magnetic interference. This is all in Ed Leeper's book. It is usually a very quick and cheap fix, but in some cases one ends up with just one working switch unless new wires are run. Bill On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Unscrewing the lights may not help as it is likely that the electronics > > and not the tubes are the problem. Also these circumstances are often in > > office settings where employees don't have the luxury of modifying the > > lighting conditions; > > Actually I have personal experience with this -- unscrewing the > light tubes above my desk at work does indeed help! > > Marc > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Hi All It has been interesting following the discussion about Fluorescent Lights and the Magnetic fields they create. What I have not seen mentioned is the problem of microsurges on the power line or dirty electricity. This can cause a lot of problems for people who are sensitive to things like this. Graham Stetzer makes a meter to measure the power line Microsurges. They also have filters to reduce the Microsurges. I suggest you go to their website: http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/meter_sheet.html <http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/meter_sheet.html> On the left hand side of the page go to: Graham-Stetzer Research <http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/research/> to read about the problems Microsurges can cause and the benefits received from doing the correction. I have their meter and my house had readings as high as 1000 at some of the outlets. After installing the filters the outlets now read no more than 60. It is still a bit too high as 25 is considered ideal. I am happy with what I have. I live in a retirement community where there is an apartment building. I checked the readings at some outlets in the building, yesterday. The lowest was 400 and over half of the outlets were beyond the 1999 range of the meter! Wow! I do not spend a lot of time in that building! I hope this is some help to you. Bill E --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote: > > I'd agree that often disconnecting the bulbs helps. > > If there are high magnetic field readings all around one also > has to consider power lines and possible wiring errors. > Any case where the same lights are controlled by more > than one switch there's a good chance of a wiring error, > and with fluorscents on the circuits the result is very bad. > Check if turning off the lights lowers the field. Then > try to find an electrician who understands neutral loops > and magnetic interference. This is all in Ed Leeper's book. > It is usually a very quick and cheap fix, but in some cases > one ends up with just one working switch unless new wires > are run. > > Bill > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Marc Martin marc@... wrote: > > > > > > > > Unscrewing the lights may not help as it is likely that the > > > and not the tubes are the problem. Also these circumstances are often in > > > office settings where employees don't have the luxury of modifying the > > > lighting conditions; > > > > Actually I have personal experience with this -- unscrewing the > > light tubes above my desk at work does indeed help! > > > > Marc > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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I've commented on these products before. They can help in some cases,
but they can also make things worse. The meter measures the voltage in the medium frequency range. The filter converts the voltage to current, and hence magnetic field. So the wiring between the filter and the source of the problem becomes an even worse problem. They also don't help with common mode noise. The state of the science doesn't make it clear whether the electric field or magnetic fields is the greater concern. It may depend on the person. Differential mode electric fields tend to cancel pretty quickly with distance anyway, though not always. I think cases where these filters are most likely to help are cases where fixing wiring errors and getting rid of sources of AC magnetic fields will help even more. In cases where that's not possible it is worth trying them, and keeping them as close to the sources as possible. Bill On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Ehrhart2h <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > It has been interesting following the discussion about Fluorescent > Lights and the Magnetic fields they create. > > What I have not seen mentioned is the problem of microsurges on the > power line or dirty electricity. This can cause a lot of problems for > people who are sensitive to things like this. > > Graham Stetzer makes a meter to measure the power line Microsurges. > They also have filters to reduce the Microsurges. I suggest you go to > their website: http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/meter_sheet.html > <http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/meter_sheet.html> > > On the left hand side of the page go to: Graham-Stetzer Research > <http://www.stetzerelectric.com/filters/research/> to read about the > problems Microsurges can cause and the benefits received from doing the > correction. > > I have their meter and my house had readings as high as 1000 at some of > the outlets. After installing the filters the outlets now read no more > than 60. It is still a bit too high as 25 is considered ideal. I am > happy with what I have. > > I live in a retirement community where there is an apartment building. > I checked the readings at some outlets in the building, yesterday. The > lowest was 400 and over half of the outlets were beyond the 1999 range > of the meter! Wow! I do not spend a lot of time in that building! > > I hope this is some help to you. > > Bill E > > > --- In [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Bruno > <wbruno@...> wrote: > > > > I'd agree that often disconnecting the bulbs helps. > > > > If there are high magnetic field readings all around one also > > has to consider power lines and possible wiring errors. > > Any case where the same lights are controlled by more > > than one switch there's a good chance of a wiring error, > > and with fluorscents on the circuits the result is very bad. > > Check if turning off the lights lowers the field. Then > > try to find an electrician who understands neutral loops > > and magnetic interference. This is all in Ed Leeper's book. > > It is usually a very quick and cheap fix, but in some cases > > one ends up with just one working switch unless new wires > > are run. > > > > Bill > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Marc Martin marc@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Unscrewing the lights may not help as it is likely that the > electronics > > > > and not the tubes are the problem. Also these circumstances are > often in > > > > office settings where employees don't have the luxury of modifying > the > > > > lighting conditions; > > > > > > Actually I have personal experience with this -- unscrewing the > > > light tubes above my desk at work does indeed help! > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by maurmurr1
In a message dated 26/07/2009 22:04:40 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes: The state of the science doesn't make it clear whether the electric field or magnetic fields is the greater concern. It may depend on the person. Differential mode electric fields tend to cancel pretty quickly with Paul Uk replies - for the record electric feilds give me more skin symptoms and Emfeilds tend to get to my whole system cuasing great nausea. I would hazzard a guess that the EMF gives deeper cellular effects where as efeild gives skin level effects. puk [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Your guess is probably right. Electric fields usually don't penetrate much
beyond the skin, although at higher frequencies (~ 1GHz) the electric and magnetic penetrate together. When you get up higher still in frequency the penetration of the millimeter waves is reduced... it heats the skin before it can get much deeper. Bill On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:12 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > In a message dated 26/07/2009 22:04:40 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email]<wbruno%40gmail.com> > writes: > > > The state of the science doesn't make it clear whether the electric field > or magnetic fields is the greater concern. It may depend on the person. > Differential mode electric fields tend to cancel pretty quickly with > > Paul Uk replies - > for the record electric feilds give me more skin symptoms and Emfeilds tend > > to get to my whole system cuasing great nausea. I would hazzard a guess > that the EMF gives deeper cellular effects where as efeild gives skin level > > effects. > > puk > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by BiBrun
One more thing with the lighting: in an office building, the floor below you will, of course, have their ceiling lights located just under your feet and possibly closer than the ones overhead.
John L. --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote: > > I'd agree that often disconnecting the bulbs helps... > > > Bill > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote: > > > Actually I have personal experience with this -- unscrewing the > > light tubes above my desk at work does indeed help! > > > > Marc |
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