FILLINGS/THANKS

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to my message about
mercury fillings.

The detailed information you have all given is extremely useful and
interesting.

Much appreciated.
x

My wife Sue probably would NOT have had electrosensitivity if she had not had her mercury fillings removed. So we would say, be very very careful, and think about what else may be wrong with your body before you try anything major like amalgam removal!

This is what happened (sorry to those who have seen our case history before)
1. Sue became ill with various chronic illness symptoms, severe headaches etc. Mercury seemed a likely cause.
2. She had her 4 amalgam fillings removed in the "approved" manner with a rubber dam - but she thought it might have slipped during the removal of the first one.
3. She suffered a burning sensation in the throat immediately afterwards, many symptoms got worse and multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) increased.
4. She had a scan with an "Oberon" machine (microwaves at 4 GHz) which suggested liver problems, but also directly triggered tinnitus/buzzing in her head, which has got steadily worse ever since. This is her main ES symptom and is definitely exacerbated by power lines, plugs/sockets, computers, mobiles/cordless phones, etc.
5. Later specialist tests showed that her immune system was badly run down, with 2 of the 4 "Phase 2 liver detoxification pathways" not working - sulphation and glucuronidation (Gilbert's disease). This had put too much load on the other pathways and as a result her glutathione had got very low, leaving her with no resistance.
6. IV glutathione and other drips have helped her and the MCS has decreased sharply, but we are still left with the electrosensitivity which is not getting any better.
7. She suffers a bad reaction if she tries to detox with most of the standard methods e.g. alpha-lipoic acid, NDF. We're not sure exactly why.
8. A neurological antibodies test has shown high IgM which means that a problem has developed in the last year. This would either have been because of the amalgam removal, or the Oberon machine, or both. Net result - her autoimmune system appears to be attacking the myelin sheath round her nerves, hence the ES.

So we would say that before attempting any amalgam removal, try to check whether the rest of your system is reasonably OK. If you are low on key chemicals like glutathione, your immune system may not be able to cope with the extra load imposed by amalgam removal. However carefully it is done, with rubber dam and all recommended precautions, there is always likely to be a transient high load of mercury. Vapour is much more mobile and more difficult to contain than the small amount of mercury which gradually leaches from fillings.

In our case, we feel sure that if we had identified the liver detox problems earlier, and either not removed Sue's amalgams or had lots of glutathione first and then removed with a strict detox/supplement protocol (though dentists disagree over which one), she would almost certainly not have her ES today. Of course the Oberon machine was the direct cause, but we feel that Sue's immune system was so low by then (after the extra load from the amalgam removal) that almost anything could have set it off.

Obviously the situation is different for people who already have ES, but I think we would still say - be very careful, amalgam removal is not benign, and too many websites/articles don't seem to mention the risks.

Best wishes, Ian and Sue Kemp



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Following on from Sue's case history, I have a general question for members of this group.

Our experience was that Sue's immune system got run down and weakened her, then something happened to trigger her ES (in this case, a microwave scan) which would not affect other people. Her initial reaction was instant (within an hour). Since then, it has grown very gradually worse, but this is spread over a year.

Is this other people's experience, or not?
- Do you know what triggered your ES initially?
- Was it fairly sharp, or a very gradual development?
- Do you think your system could have been run down at the time and made you more susceptible?

Would be very interesting to see if there is a pattern here.

Best wishes, Ian and Sue



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 7. She suffers a bad reaction if she tries to detox with most of the
> standard methods e.g. alpha-lipoic acid, NDF.

Yeah, I often get bad reactions from trying to detox heavy metals
using products which are advertised as heavy metal chelators. Lately
I've been experimenting with two products -- "mercury magnet" from
cocoon nutrition and activated charcoal. Both of them claim not
to go into the bloodstream, which makes them more passive than
typical chelators. I haven't taken enough of either to reach
any conclusions -- I certainly react to both of them in more
or less the same way, and the reaction seems tolerable as
long as I space the doses out to every 72 hours. Certainly
more tolerable than NDF or PCA-Rx.

Marc

> Is this other people's experience, or not?
> - Do you know what triggered your ES initially?
> - Was it fairly sharp, or a very gradual development?
> - Do you think your system could have been run down at the time and made
> you more susceptible?

I was pretty run down prior to getting ES, although I suppose I may
have been coming down with ES slowly over the course of a year. First
I got sinus infections, which led to months of antibiotics. One
of the antibiotics triggered chemical sensitivities. The ES got
really bad later on a 2 week business trip with a laptop (which on one
night I fell asleep with it turned on sitting next to me all night
-- plugged in, without any timed shutdown).

Curiously, after becoming bedridden with flu-like symptoms, I noticed
that antibiotics actually helped my ES symptoms. However, I was
clearly dealing with some fungal issues, and the antibiotics were
making things worse in general, so I stopped them.

Marc

An intelligent protocol (Klinghardt) seems to be take Activated carbon 30
min before meals in order to catch the bile with toxin when it goes down to
the intestine.

Daniele

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: [eSens] FILLINGS

Hi all!

Before I start ranting, I want to say that most of what I say is
gathered from the book Amalgam Illness by Andrew Hall Cutler. And
personal experience. My only motivation is better healt for all!

> My wife Sue probably would NOT have had electrosensitivity if she
had not had her mercury fillings removed.

RGO - This is common and happened to me too in that it aggravated
the sensitivity I already had. So now we KNOW its dangerous and
toxic. Since amalgam is an godsend gift for the diseasecare industry
I dont want it in my mouth. It causes a myriad of health problems
not connected to amalgam by mainstream doctors.

> So we would say, be very very careful, and think about what else
may be wrong with your body before you try anything major like
amalgam removal!

> 1. Sue became ill with various chronic illness symptoms, severe
headaches etc. Mercury seemed a likely cause.

RGO - Hadn't she removed the amalgam she would have been lost. IMHO.

> 2. She had her 4 amalgam fillings removed in the "approved" manner
with a rubber dam - but she thought it might have slipped during the
removal of the first one.

4 amalgam fillings is very little. She might be allergic. There are
tests to see if this is trhe case, MELISA, VEGA.

> 3. She suffered a burning sensation in the throat immediately
afterwards, many symptoms got worse and multiple chemical
sensitivity (MCS) increased.

4 Days after removal of the LAST amalgam filling DMSA can be taken
to hinder redistribution of mercury to the brain and lessen symptoms.

> 4. She had a scan with an "Oberon" machine (microwaves at 4 GHz)
which suggested liver problems,

RGO - Liver problems is common from amalgam fillings, but all organs
in the body is affected by the mercury.

> but also directly triggered tinnitus/buzzing in her head, which
has got steadily worse ever since. This is her main ES symptom and
is definitely exacerbated by power lines, plugs/sockets, computers,
mobiles/cordless phones, etc.

RGO - Maybe she hears a kind of ringing or highpitched tone too? How
many mercury toxic people have I met with those symptoms. At least I
dont have fingers enough to count them. DMSA detox and decrease
sensitivity. For the body to repair other things are probably
necessary too. (EFA, GLA, vit E, zink, magnesium, vit C)

> 5. Later specialist tests showed that her immune system was badly
run down, with 2 of the 4 "Phase 2 liver detoxification pathways"
not working - sulphation and glucuronidation (Gilbert's disease).
This had put too much load on the other pathways and as a result her
glutathione had got very low, leaving her with no resistance.

RGO - There are ways to boost the pathways, at least the sulphation.
You gave me the incitament to try this. The glucuronidation may
be 'genetic' they say, but is probably enhanced with the right diet
as is everything else.

> 6. IV glutathione and other drips have helped her and the MCS has
decreased sharply, but we are still left with the electrosensitivity
which is not getting any better.

Its possible that IV gluthation mobilizes and redistributes mercury
to the brain. Oral gluthaion does. The cells of the body manufacture
gluthation themselves. For this to take place there mustnt be a
deficiency of selenium, cysteine and whatever it were. Hrm, do a
search. Sorry.

> 7. She suffers a bad reaction if she tries to detox with most of
the standard methods e.g. alpha-lipoic acid, NDF. We're not sure
exactly why.

ALA, alpha lipoic acid MUST NOT be used until the fast-moving pools
of mercury has decreaseed by 80 percent or so. That is after 3-4
months after amalgam removal AND the correct use of DMSA or DMPS.
Mercury will be transported into the brain otherwise. This will also
happen if you take ALA in the wrong way. Do NOT take dmsa or dmps
IV!!! Orally every 3rd hour around the clock preferrably together
with DMSA and antioxidants. (ALA crosses the blood brain barrier and
therefor can detox the brain, while DMSA doesnt cross the BBB and
therefor cannot detox the brain or intracellular mercury bound
inside cells to microsomes, mitocondries and so on.) Microsomes is
the cells detox department, mitocondries is the energy factory.
Not only the cell has a cellmembrane but these guys too. Detox
these, heal the membranes. Fishoil, linseed oil, olive oil and some
oil with omega 6. Phospahtidyl choline. Did someone say GLA and
Inositol? Without detox it wont work. Mercury in the brain has a
halftime of maybe 25 years!

> 8. A neurological antibodies test has shown high IgM which means
that a problem has developed in the last year. This would either
have been because of the amalgam removal, or the Oberon machine, or
both. Net result - her autoimmune system appears to be attacking
the myelin sheath round her nerves, hence the ES.

RGO - Get the mercury out of the nervous system?

Btw, homeopathic detox mobilizes mercury and some goes to the brain.
This vastly increased my ES over a couple of months.

Chlorella has the same effect, but slower, as do MSM after a while
as do sulphur foods for many people. If you want a great time
listening to tinnitus, take a few drops of choriander tincture. Why?
It strongly mobilizes mercury but doesnt bind and excrete enough,
hencee into the brain and nervous system it goes.

> So we would say that before attempting any amalgam removal, try to
check whether the rest of your system is reasonably OK. If you are
low on key chemicals like glutathione, your immune system may not be
able to cope with the extra load imposed by amalgam removal.

RGO - Yeah, you can say that twice.

> However carefully it is done, with rubber dam and all recommended
precautions, there is always likely to be a transient high load of
mercury. Vapour is much more mobile and more difficult to contain
than the small amount of mercury which gradually leaches from
fillings.

RGO - My removal was done by a leading paradontolog and expert in
amalgam removal since 20 years back.

> In our case, we feel sure that if we had identified the liver
detox problems earlier, and either not removed Sue's amalgams or had
lots of glutathione first and then removed with a strict
detox/supplement protocol (though dentists disagree over which one),
she would almost certainly not have her ES today.

RGO - This is a very very interesting forum! I found it just now!
You cannot be sure that anything you had done had stopped her from
getting ES. But you can be pretty sure she will have less a problem
with ES if she detox mercury followin a proper protocol. This is
called chelating and is potentially dangerous too.

Roger

Yep, most of this sounds pretty familiar. A couple of extra points to flag up.
1. Sue has been on myriads of supplements for years with virtually no obvious benefit (and considerable expense) It was as if nothing was getting through to the bloodstream. We have finally had a "leaky gut" test done and this suggests that permeability is high and nutrients aren't being absorbed properly No use putting in all the right foods if they just go straight through! IV drips of glutathione, fish oil etc seem to have been more successful as they bypass the gut.
2. Her sulphation pathway is actually not working - cysteine normal to high, sulphate very low. Therefore, conventional supplementation with cysteine, MSM etc doesn`t work for her because her body won`t convert it. Only discoverable by specific tests.
3. For the amalgam removal we went to a certified mercury free dentist who seemed reputable - but it`s now apparent that there`s a wide disparity of views and practices.
4. There is huge controversy about chelation methods. DMPS, DMSA, EDTA, NDF, ALA, all have their advocates, all have been claimed to give great results for some people, all have been reported by others to give real problems. May well depend on the exact metabolism of the particular person. It is very scary for Sue and all the ones she has tried so far have given her bad reactions.
5. The tinnitus was definitely initially triggered by the Oberon machine, but the root cause may well have been mercury which had got into the brain and was just waiting for something to start it off...

The snag with treatment plans always seems to be that there are lots of chickens, lots of eggs, and multiple vicious circles.
.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Olsson
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: [eSens] Re: FILLINGS


Hi all!

Before I start ranting, I want to say that most of what I say is
gathered from the book Amalgam Illness by Andrew Hall Cutler. And
personal experience. My only motivation is better healt for all!

> My wife Sue probably would NOT have had electrosensitivity if she
had not had her mercury fillings removed.

RGO - This is common and happened to me too in that it aggravated
the sensitivity I already had. So now we KNOW its dangerous and
toxic. Since amalgam is an godsend gift for the diseasecare industry
I dont want it in my mouth. It causes a myriad of health problems
not connected to amalgam by mainstream doctors.

> So we would say, be very very careful, and think about what else
may be wrong with your body before you try anything major like
amalgam removal!

> 1. Sue became ill with various chronic illness symptoms, severe
headaches etc. Mercury seemed a likely cause.

RGO - Hadn't she removed the amalgam she would have been lost. IMHO.

> 2. She had her 4 amalgam fillings removed in the "approved" manner
with a rubber dam - but she thought it might have slipped during the
removal of the first one.

4 amalgam fillings is very little. She might be allergic. There are
tests to see if this is trhe case, MELISA, VEGA.

> 3. She suffered a burning sensation in the throat immediately
afterwards, many symptoms got worse and multiple chemical
sensitivity (MCS) increased.

4 Days after removal of the LAST amalgam filling DMSA can be taken
to hinder redistribution of mercury to the brain and lessen symptoms.

> 4. She had a scan with an "Oberon" machine (microwaves at 4 GHz)
which suggested liver problems,

RGO - Liver problems is common from amalgam fillings, but all organs
in the body is affected by the mercury.

> but also directly triggered tinnitus/buzzing in her head, which
has got steadily worse ever since. This is her main ES symptom and
is definitely exacerbated by power lines, plugs/sockets, computers,
mobiles/cordless phones, etc.

RGO - Maybe she hears a kind of ringing or highpitched tone too? How
many mercury toxic people have I met with those symptoms. At least I
dont have fingers enough to count them. DMSA detox and decrease
sensitivity. For the body to repair other things are probably
necessary too. (EFA, GLA, vit E, zink, magnesium, vit C)

> 5. Later specialist tests showed that her immune system was badly
run down, with 2 of the 4 "Phase 2 liver detoxification pathways"
not working - sulphation and glucuronidation (Gilbert's disease).
This had put too much load on the other pathways and as a result her
glutathione had got very low, leaving her with no resistance.

RGO - There are ways to boost the pathways, at least the sulphation.
You gave me the incitament to try this. The glucuronidation may
be 'genetic' they say, but is probably enhanced with the right diet
as is everything else.

> 6. IV glutathione and other drips have helped her and the MCS has
decreased sharply, but we are still left with the electrosensitivity
which is not getting any better.

Its possible that IV gluthation mobilizes and redistributes mercury
to the brain. Oral gluthaion does. The cells of the body manufacture
gluthation themselves. For this to take place there mustnt be a
deficiency of selenium, cysteine and whatever it were. Hrm, do a
search. Sorry.

> 7. She suffers a bad reaction if she tries to detox with most of
the standard methods e.g. alpha-lipoic acid, NDF. We're not sure
exactly why.

ALA, alpha lipoic acid MUST NOT be used until the fast-moving pools
of mercury has decreaseed by 80 percent or so. That is after 3-4
months after amalgam removal AND the correct use of DMSA or DMPS.
Mercury will be transported into the brain otherwise. This will also
happen if you take ALA in the wrong way. Do NOT take dmsa or dmps
IV!!! Orally every 3rd hour around the clock preferrably together
with DMSA and antioxidants. (ALA crosses the blood brain barrier and
therefor can detox the brain, while DMSA doesnt cross the BBB and
therefor cannot detox the brain or intracellular mercury bound
inside cells to microsomes, mitocondries and so on.) Microsomes is
the cells detox department, mitocondries is the energy factory.
Not only the cell has a cellmembrane but these guys too. Detox
these, heal the membranes. Fishoil, linseed oil, olive oil and some
oil with omega 6. Phospahtidyl choline. Did someone say GLA and
Inositol? Without detox it wont work. Mercury in the brain has a
halftime of maybe 25 years!

> 8. A neurological antibodies test has shown high IgM which means
that a problem has developed in the last year. This would either
have been because of the amalgam removal, or the Oberon machine, or
both. Net result - her autoimmune system appears to be attacking
the myelin sheath round her nerves, hence the ES.

RGO - Get the mercury out of the nervous system?

Btw, homeopathic detox mobilizes mercury and some goes to the brain.
This vastly increased my ES over a couple of months.

Chlorella has the same effect, but slower, as do MSM after a while
as do sulphur foods for many people. If you want a great time
listening to tinnitus, take a few drops of choriander tincture. Why?
It strongly mobilizes mercury but doesnt bind and excrete enough,
hencee into the brain and nervous system it goes.

> So we would say that before attempting any amalgam removal, try to
check whether the rest of your system is reasonably OK. If you are
low on key chemicals like glutathione, your immune system may not be
able to cope with the extra load imposed by amalgam removal.

RGO - Yeah, you can say that twice.

> However carefully it is done, with rubber dam and all recommended
precautions, there is always likely to be a transient high load of
mercury. Vapour is much more mobile and more difficult to contain
than the small amount of mercury which gradually leaches from
fillings.

RGO - My removal was done by a leading paradontolog and expert in
amalgam removal since 20 years back.

> In our case, we feel sure that if we had identified the liver
detox problems earlier, and either not removed Sue's amalgams or had
lots of glutathione first and then removed with a strict
detox/supplement protocol (though dentists disagree over which one),
she would almost certainly not have her ES today.

RGO - This is a very very interesting forum! I found it just now!
You cannot be sure that anything you had done had stopped her from
getting ES. But you can be pretty sure she will have less a problem
with ES if she detox mercury followin a proper protocol. This is
called chelating and is potentially dangerous too.

Roger






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In [hidden email], "Roger Olsson" <roger.olsson@p...>
wrote:
>
...
> ALA, alpha lipoic acid MUST NOT be used until the fast-moving pools
> of mercury has decreaseed by 80 percent or so. That is after 3-4
> months after amalgam removal AND the correct use of DMSA or DMPS.
> Mercury will be transported into the brain otherwise. This will
also
> happen if you take ALA in the wrong way. Do NOT take dmsa or dmps
> IV!!! Orally every 3rd hour around the clock preferrably together
> with DMSA and antioxidants. (ALA crosses the blood brain barrier
and
I'm getting somewhat worried. I sense intuitively that it might be
correct. Amalgam removal and no supplement might not be enough.

For my personal case, I just took modifilan a bit before and during
the beginning of the removal phase. A few months ago. That's it.
Therefore I worried for my brain.

When I had the mercury fillings removed I could sense a big
improvement, but nowadays, it has faded, maybe I feel a bit stronger,
especially with less headache when I'm sick for example. That's it.

So I'm interested in learning about additional mercury detox
supplements, if it doesn't sound too risky.

jean (jean is a male french first name)

> So I'm interested in learning about additional mercury detox
> supplements, if it doesn't sound too risky.

You might want to look at taking capsules of activated
charcoal -- that doesn't sound very risky, and should
bind to toxins that are dumped from your liver into
your intestines, and prevent them from reentering the
bloodstream.

Also, I diet high in antioxidants will help you detox
mercury. That would include lots of vegetables and
fruits, preferably uncooked.

Also, I remember reading years ago that someone
successfully detoxed from eating 6 eggs per day! So that
sounds pretty simple (although you may get sick of eating
eggs).

And to prevent unpleasant detox symptoms, one should
always use a smaller dosage at first, and ramp up over
time to the sustained dosage.

Marc

Thanks Marc, it's interesting advices. I'll think about taking
activated charcoal. Mind I was over with the removal of my amalgams
last June. So already 3 months.

Also the vegetable and fruits advice, yes, for working class people
in France, it's still a problem, I don't eat enough of those.

But yeah, eggs, as a matter of fact lately I ate up to 3 eggs a day,
some days. Organic eggs, cause I get sick with non organic eggs,
it's not that expensive. But no way I'm gonna eat more that 3 or 4,
unless I get really convinced of the effect. Coincidentally today, I
checked the vitamin A, and saw that eggs are a good source for it.


By the way I saw on the TV news today that there's been a decision
(or just a commision advice ?) to fix at 300 meters the safe distance
for cell masts. Less than 300 meters would need a special permit in
the urban areas. I guess the ones at 100 meters from my place will
stay though.

jean [jean is a male first name in France]



--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:

> Thanks Marc, it's interesting advices. I'll think about taking
> activated charcoal. Mind I was over with the removal of my amalgams
> last June. So already 3 months.

I had my fillings removed over 4 years ago, but I still
have detox symptoms when taking mercury chelators. Some say
that you can spend decades detoxing mercury out of your system,
but you can certainly start feeling better a lot sooner than that.

The activated charcoal I've been experimenting with is called
Hangover Stopper (!) (http://www.hangoverstopper.com) . Although
they recommend taking up to 12 capsules each day for general
detox, I find that I get detox symptoms from just 1 capsule a
day.

> Also the vegetable and fruits advice, yes, for working class people
> in France, it's still a problem, I don't eat enough of those.

Apples are pretty easy to eat, although I find that they do increase
my ES symptoms just a little. I still eat 1 or 2 a day, though.

> But yeah, eggs, as a matter of fact lately I ate up to 3 eggs a day,
> some days. Organic eggs, cause I get sick with non organic eggs,
> it's not that expensive. But no way I'm gonna eat more that 3 or 4,
> unless I get really convinced of the effect.

Also note that some people advocate eating eggs RAW, so that you get
the maximum nutritional benefit from them. Apparently the concern
over getting a bacterial infection is overstated and also much reduced
if you eat organic eggs. My interest in eggs lately is because the
yolks have a lot of inositol and choline in them, and I've already
found that inositol capsules reduce my sensitivity (and choline
and inositol are important components of the brain and nervous
system)

Marc

> 1. Sue has been on myriads of supplements for years with virtually
no obvious benefit (and considerable expense)

RGO - I didnt find anything either. That could counteract the
mercury I mean. Ok, mega doses of vit-C gave me a little more
energy. Selenium cleared the head quite a bit, Acetylcystein
increased the energy even more. But still, something was very very
wrong. Chelating is whats making me better and better. Actually, I
have never in my life felt a mental clarity like this. Had I only
been like this when I studied. :-)

> It was as if nothing was getting through to the bloodstream. We
have finally had a "leaky gut" test done and this suggests that
permeability is high and nutrients aren't being absorbed properly

RGO - Leaky gut is food sensitivities just waiting to happen, in the
long run "arthritis", "Lupus" and other nasties can follow. I was
surprised to find I suddenly didnt tolerate wheat! I'm already
cheating with L-Glutamine, thats a kicker. Besides helping to heal
the gut it also gives plenty mental energy. A leaky gut is coming up
next. For healing leaky gut, check out MD Sherry Rogers, she goes in
the forefront of REAL doctors. That book is awesome!

> No use putting in all the right foods if they just go straight
through!

RGO - Maybe, but I'm not so sure. It may be the other way around.
Deficiencies can bring the cellular detoxification to a halt. I'd
juice some vegetables, blend a 50/50 cooked and raw food like
Rice/beans/sallat/freash garlic/olive oil/salt. Easier to absorb for
the small intestines. Finish off the meal with oils. Anyway, that
made a big big difference for me. And digestive enzymes!!! plop one
after each meal.

> 2. Her sulphation pathway is actually not working - cysteine
normal to high, sulphate very low. Therefore, conventional
supplementation with cysteine, MSM etc doesn`t work for her because
her body won`t convert it. Only discoverable by specific tests.

RGO - How to boost Phase II pathways.
(Borrowed from Andy Cutlers book)

1)Gluthation conjugation:
4 parts N-acetyl cysteine, 2 parts Glutamine, 1 part Glycine,
between meals.
2)Sulfation: Supplement Sulphate and Molybden.
3) Glucuronidation: Reduce insulin resistance with chromium, provide
co-factor supplements, increase thyroid levels, reduce inflammation,
inflammation lowers rate.
4) Glycination and Taurin conjugation: Supplement glycine or taurine
and cofactors.
5) Methylation: supplement methyl donors like Trimethylglycine
choline, lecithin, SAMe, (methionine not recommended due to
homocystein formation and the need to restrict sulfur foods in some
people), and to mobilizethe methyl groups vitamin B-12 and Folate.

> 4. There is huge controversy about chelation methods. DMPS, DMSA,
EDTA, NDF, ALA, all have their advocates, all have been claimed to
give great results for some people, all have been reported by others
to give real problems. May well depend on the exact metabolism of
the particular person. It is very scary for Sue and all the ones
she has tried so far have given her bad reactions.

RGO - About chelation methods. I want a consensus to come into being
from peoples reports. So I advocate what works for me and hope other
people voice their degrees of success with other methods. Finally
the problem will probably be solved, given enough time and if people
speak up.

RGO - About the fear Sue feels. I dont really think there is much to
fear from the ALA/DMSA approach. Start with a very small dose and
follow the protocol. So many have done this. Its the IV method that
hurts people. The important thing is to really know the protocol.

All the best,

Roger

> RGO - About chelation methods. I want a consensus to come into being
> from peoples reports. So I advocate what works for me and hope other
> people voice their degrees of success with other methods. Finally
> the problem will probably be solved, given enough time and if people
> speak up.

I don't think you'll ever find that consensus. I've been on a
heavy metals discussion group for 4 years, and repeatedly found
that one chelator that works greats for one person can harm
another. And people have felt more horrible than they ever
felt in their life from the smallest dose of a single DMSA
pill, so one cannot view DMSA/ALA as the "one solution".

My ND was going to put me on DMSA, but I changed doctors
and another ND did an energetic compatibility test (ART)
with me and various chelators, and determined that I should
*not* use DMSA or chlorella, but DMPS, NDF, and PCA-Rx
tested fine.

Marc

Hi Marc!

> I don't think you'll ever find that consensus.

Maybe, maybe not, but we will see something. There is loads of good
information passing this way and if we collect it, draw some
conclusions, who knows? We could make an eSens FAQ of what the
members think work best.

> I've been on a
> heavy metals discussion group for 4 years, and repeatedly found
> that

RGO - Bah, this group is MUCH better. Trust me, we'll make it. :-)
Jokes aside, it would be interesting to know what people believe
CAUSED the ES. Its not just electromagnetics and heavy metals.
Knowing the probable causes could be helpful. I believe also flame
retardants and mold inside the house could be some contributing
culprits.

one chelator that works greats for one person can harm
> another. And people have felt more horrible than they ever
> felt in their life from the smallest dose of a single DMSA
> pill, so one cannot view DMSA/ALA as the "one solution".

RGO - Marc, I would never say it is. I have no other interest in it
than using it to get well. Maybe I should slow down, I dont want to
come in and take over the whole group. Hope I have brought somehting
to the table though.

> My ND was going to put me on DMSA, but I changed doctors

RGO - Ok, so you never tried DMSA? Btw, what I can understand, DMSA
dont get you well by its own, it boosts the ALA. It doesnt get to
the brain mercury or intracellular mercury. This is my own
experience too. Pain in internal organs disappeared using ALA but
not DMSA.

> and another ND did an energetic compatibility test (ART)
> with me and various chelators, and determined that I should
> *not* use DMSA or chlorella, but DMPS, NDF, and PCA-Rx
> tested fine.

DMPS is MUCH more expensive, but is supposed to give less symptoms
than DMSA. But I get no symptoms from DMSA except at first I got a
little pain in the lower back (kidneys maybe) but that disappeared
after a few rounds of the ALA/DMSA combination. Maybe some of my
progress depends on the fact that I have eaten vey little of the
ordinary supermarket food for over three years. I follow a strict
but tasty diet.

Keep it up,

Roger

> RGO - Ok, so you never tried DMSA?

That is correct. I can't say that I've tried *every*
chelator, because I haven't tried DMSA or DMPS. However,
when I read the testimonials from alternative mercury
chelators, I notice there are always testimonials from
ex-DMSA or ex-DMPS users, who were frustrated at
how long it was taking, or how expensive they were,
or the side effects.

For example, here is a user testimonial for "mercury magnet",
one of the supplements I'm currently experimenting with (and
also seem to be compatible with, at a dosage of 1/2 capsule
every other day):

"I began intravenous chelation therapy with DMPS. It worked
but was quite hard on my kidneys. DMSA capsules, orally,
worked much better. But after 3.5 years of this I was
becoming frustrated and impatient and I wanted another
child. It seemed so slow. Then I tried Mercury Magnet
and I was amazed and ecstatic to discover that it was
many times more potent and many times cheaper than DMSA.
It really does work faster. One tiny capsule seems to be
equal to at least 500 mg of DMSA. I am feeling better
in an accelerated manner, and nearing the end of this
long tribulation."

FYI, here is more info on mercury magnet:

http://www.cocoonnutrition.org/catalog/page_mercury_magnet_NL.php
http://www.cocoonnutrition.org/catalog/page_mercury_magnet.php

But I'm not going to start recommending people try this
until I have months of experience with it. But I can tell
already that I'm more compatible with this chelator than
some of the ones I've tried in the past.

Marc

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@u...> wrote:

> RGO - ...I dont really think there is much to
> fear from the ALA/DMSA approach. Start with a very small dose and
> follow the protocol. So many have done this. Its the IV method that
> hurts people. The important thing is to really know the protocol.
>
Is there a way to purchase DMSA without going through a doctor so that
it can be taken orally? I have never tried this. I try just about
everything (within reason) at least once.

> Is there a way to purchase DMSA without going through a doctor so that
> it can be taken orally? I have never tried this. I try just about
> everything (within reason) at least once.

You don't need a prescription to buy DMSA. There's a local supplement
store in my neighborhood that sells it. Although I doubt that any
local health food store would have it, you'd have to go somewhere
that specializes in harder to find supplements.

Or online, try www.illnessisoptional.com -- I buy a few hard-to-get
supplements there. Search on "DMSA" or "Captomer". Or use the
links below:

http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=16078
http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=16079
http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=4221
http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=4222

The above links are for 100mg and 250mg capsules.

I found one site in the UK where you can dosages as small as 25mg
per capsule:

http://www.light-and-sound.co.uk/cgi-bin/litcart2.cgi?start

Marc

> http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=16078
> http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=16079
> http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=4221
> http://www.illnessisoptional.com/ace/product.asp?ProdID=4222

Oh, I see that some of the above products are listed as "currently
unavailable". Try also www.spinelife.com, which has the following:

http://store.yahoo.com/spinelife/vndmsa.html
http://store.yahoo.com/spinelife/vndmsa250.html
http://store.yahoo.com/spinelife/mer.html

Marc