EMF Blocking

 
 
Hi All!
 
If foil only blocks RF radiation then what can you use to block emf say coming from your fridge?
 
Loni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>If foil only blocks RF radiation then what can you use to block emf say
>coming from your fridge?


You can use Mumetal, but a timer is much lower cost and more effective
http://www.lessemf.com/emf-appl.html#735

Emil

Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the fridge sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off for long periods of time thus I need blocking.
 
Mumetal is pretty expensive isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?
 
Loni
 


--- On Mon, 9/19/11, Emil at Less EMF Inc <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 9:52 AM


 



>If foil only blocks RF radiation then what can you use to block emf say
>coming from your fridge?

You can use Mumetal, but a timer is much lower cost and more effective
http://www.lessemf.com/emf-appl.html#735

Emil








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the
>fridge sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off
>for long periods of time thus I need blocking. Mumetal is pretty expensive
>isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?

Yes, see Mag-Stop Plates http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html#277-0

Emil

Wow, those are pricey?  Does anything else less expensive block or is that the only metal?
 
Loni

--- On Mon, 9/19/11, Emil at Less EMF Inc <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 1:42 PM


 



>Thanks Emil. I think that the timer might be good to have anyway but the
>fridge sits near the couch where I watch tv so I can't leave the fridge off
>for long periods of time thus I need blocking. Mumetal is pretty expensive
>isn't it. Does lessemf have something I could use?

Yes, see Mag-Stop Plates http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html#277-0

Emil








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loni wrote:
> Wow, those are pricey?  Does anything else less expensive block or is that the only metal?
>  
Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,
and blocking RF or wireless waves.

The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the
fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.

If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection
and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your
best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!

If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.
Seriously. Move it across the room.
Six feet away, or move the couch.

Stewart

Thanks Stewart; answers my question!  Loni

--- On Mon, 9/19/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, September 19, 2011, 6:55 PM


 



Loni wrote:
> Wow, those are pricey? Does anything else less expensive block or is that the only metal?
>
Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,
and blocking RF or wireless waves.

The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the
fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.

If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection
and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your
best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!

If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.
Seriously. Move it across the room.
Six feet away, or move the couch.

Stewart








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stewart,

While we are on the subject of refrigerators, I wanted to ask a couple questions.  The arrangement of my apartment makes it such that I am within 1-4 feet of the refrigerator most of the time.  It is driving me crazy because it cycles on and off every 20 minutes.  I timed it. 

I have tested this refrigerator with my Gauss Meter while the motor is running  and it ranges from 3.0 - 8.5 mG in the front and 40.0-60.0mG in the back.  While the motor is off cycling, the front measures about 1.0mG and the back about 2.0mG.  What I have been doing is trying to move away from it while it is cycling on.  But while I am sleeping on the floor, it is about six feet from me and I seem to be having problems with it even though the Gauss Meter reading is less than 1.0 in the area.  One of the symptoms I have been noticing is a fluttering in my eardrum. like the eardrum is spasming.

I have covered myself underneath on the floor and on top of my covers with Staticoat Material grounded on one edge of each piece to the outlet with an alligator clip plug.  But is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields while I am sleeping?  Maybe I am getting something from wires in the floor or something travelling through the floor?  The Gauss readings in the sleeping area are less then 1.0mG. 

What fabrics are good at blocking magnetic fields?

C; Johnson
superdrove



--- On Tue, 9/20/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011, 1:55 AM







 



 


   
     
     
      Loni wrote:

> Wow, those are pricey?  Does anything else less expensive block or is that the only metal?

>  

Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

and blocking RF or wireless waves.



The only way to block magnetic fields that come from motors, like the

fridge, is very expensive and best used sparingly.



If on the other hand your fridge is the newest with internet connection

and RFID tag readers to email you when you need to buy milk, then your

best bet is to replace the fridge with old tech!!!



If the fridge is next to the couch, then I recommend redecorating.

Seriously. Move it across the room.

Six feet away, or move the couch.



Stewart





   
     

   
   


 



 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I have covered myself underneath on the floor and on top of my covers with
>Staticoat Material grounded on one edge of each piece to the outlet with an
>alligator clip plug. But is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields
>while I am sleeping? Maybe I am getting something from wires in the floor
>or something travelling through the floor? The Gauss readings in the
>sleeping area are less then 1.0mG.

>What fabrics are good at blocking magnetic fields?

There are no fabrics which can shield low frequency magnetic fields. The
shielding fabrics will shield radiowaves.

Emil

Hi,

> The arrangement of my apartment makes it such that I am within 1-4 feet of the refrigerator most of the time.  

Oh no, how large is your apartment. Sounds like the fridge is in the
center, or it is a small room.


> It is driving me crazy because it cycles on and off every 20 minutes.
>  
I don't doubt it.


> I have tested this refrigerator with my Gauss Meter while the motor is running  and it ranges from 3.0 - 8.5 mG in the front and 40.0-60.0mG in the back.
>  
There's the motor.


> What I have been doing is trying to move away from it while it is cycling on.
>  
Good.


> even though the Gauss Meter reading is less than 1.0 in the area.  
Background levels should be 0.15 mG or less. I have trouble with 1.0 mG
myself.


> One of the symptoms I have been noticing is a fluttering in my eardrum. like the eardrum is spasming.
>
>  
Affecting your nervous system perhaps.
Is it like tinitus? or something more physical?


>  is this adequate to keep out the magnetic fields
No.
Shielding fabrics only block RF. Not magnetic.
The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare
metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to
make it into a fabric.

Need a different apartment. It is sad the only way to feel better is to
move. At least you're only renting, right?
Sounds similar to the first travel trailer I bought in 1995. Traded it
in, after about 2 months. Tough learning curve.

Stewart
--

> Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,
>
> and blocking RF or wireless waves.
>
>  

Stewart,


--- On Tue, 9/20/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


Affecting your nervous system perhaps.

Is it like tinitus? or something more physical?




It is not tinnitus, or ringing in my ears, it is a spasm of the eardrum like it is reverberating at a high rate of speed. 


The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare


metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to


make it into a fabric.

Well, that is unfortunate because in order to block the refrigerator, I would have to encase it on 3 or 4 sides with the metal or else buy one huge piece and move it around to whatever direction I would be sitting in.  In the living room my back is to the motor so I could put the Mu Metal easily against that wall. But when in the kitchen and when sleeping, the front of the refer faces me and I would have to have a piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation from bending around the back towards the front.  But, a piece of Mu Metal large enough to do that would cost about $500 x 2 = $1,000.  I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are just as bad as the old ones.

So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal?  Do you suggest just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you might be?

C. Johnson
Superdrove


















Need a different apartment. It is sad the only way to feel better is to

move. At least you're only renting, right?

Sounds similar to the first travel trailer I bought in 1995. Traded it

in, after about 2 months. Tough learning curve.



Stewart

--



> Let's be clear there is a difference between blocking magnetic fields,

>

> and blocking RF or wireless waves.

>

>  





   
     

   
   


 



 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
C.a.b. Johnson wrote:
> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation from bending around the back towards the front.  
Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a
straight line from the center.
So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

>   I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are just as bad as the old ones.
>  
Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put
out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the
amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.


> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal?  Do you suggest just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you might be?
>  

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the
circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal
sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from
one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to
encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must
be kept smooth.)
Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the
field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004" thick
foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I
made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%
reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

Stewart

Wow, mu metal is complicated. I guess this whole illness is complicated.
 
I was in a remote area staying few years ago and they had an old fridge and it did not bother me. But the electricity was not dirty. None of it bothered me up there.
 
Loni


--- On Wed, 9/21/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 7:42 AM


 



Hi,
C.a.b. Johnson wrote:
> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation from bending around the back towards the front.
Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a
straight line from the center.
So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

> I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are just as bad as the old ones.
>
Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put
out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the
amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.

> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal? Do you suggest just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you might be?
>

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the
circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal
sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from
one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to
encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must
be kept smooth.)
Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the
field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004" thick
foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I
made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%
reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

Stewart








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh I take that back. The computer did put off emf that I couldn't handle but the fridge was fine and the elect. from the walls was fine. Loni

--- On Wed, 9/21/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 7:42 AM


 



Hi,
C.a.b. Johnson wrote:
> piece in front of the refrigerator wide enough to block the magnetic radiation from bending around the back towards the front.
Magnetic fields move in a circular pattern. Toroids actually. Not in a
straight line from the center.
So it is best to avoid calling it a radiation.

> I could buy a new refrigerator for that but I suppose that the new ones are just as bad as the old ones.
>
Not always, but in this case it is probably safer to say they all put
out an unwanted magnetic field, as they all have motors. Except the
amonia-based propane burning models for travel trailers and off grid use.

> So how to go about blocking the Refrigerator with Mu Metal? Do you suggest just leaning a piece up against it and rotating it around to block whereever you might be?
>

It is not that simple. One flat sheet, won't cut off very many of the
circular bands, unless the magnetic field is smaller than the mu-metal
sheet. The magnetic force comes AROUND the (fridge/motor/magnet) from
one pole to the other. For mu-metal to be effective, it needs to
encompass the magnetic field without creasing, or sharp bends. (It must
be kept smooth.)
Then the thickness of the mu-metal will also determine how much of the
field is attenuated. I get about 50% reduction with the 0.004" thick
foil I got wrapped around an AC motor, and in another little project I
made a half cylinder around a transformer. The literature says up to 75%
reduction with one layer.

I still find avoidance is easier.

Stewart








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loni wrote:
> Wow, mu metal is complicated.

I would say magnetic fields are more complicated, but i think the method
to block magnetics didn't exist before some high-tech discoveries and
methods.

Those with a single axis gauss meter, (directional), may notice that
aiming the meter directly at a motor or power line, does not always get
the highest reading at that location. Rotating the meter, like a cone,
until a higher reading is found, shows the shape of the toroid, and that
it is not linear. More like it travels along a sphere (oversimplified),
so finding the right angle to block that field, is indeed complicated.

Trying to find a picture to better illustrate this...
http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/diagrams/magflux.gif

In actuality what the mu metal is needing to do is CUT Across the field
lines.

Stewart

On Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:46 PM Emil wrote:

There are no fabrics which can shield low frequency magnetic fields. The shielding fabrics will shield radiowaves.

Then

On Tue, 9/20/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:

The only way to block magnetic is with Mu-Metal. It is the specific rare  metals in layers that accomplish the blocking, so there is no way to make it into a fabric.

Well, it appears there is some misinformation out there from certain sites that sell RF sheilding fabrics, which has caused me a bit of confusion.  Some of these sites will say something like:  Grounding this fabric gives the added benefit of shielding EMF's as well as RF.   Or, it is not necessary to ground this fabric unless you want to shield EMF's too.  Well, EMF stands for Electro Magnetic Fields.  So if they are only talking about shielding the Electro part of EMF they should not imply that it is shielding the Magnetic part too.

Also,  Less EMF sells several products other than Mu Metal for shielding Magnetic Fields.  Weather they are effective I do not know. 

But I am looking to shield the refrigerator motor, the front floor of my car, and my body parts.   But, Mu Metal is way out of my price range of afordability..

On the bottom of the page at http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html

there is a discussion of how to make a fabric that could be used to shield magnetic fields by gluing Metglas Magnetic Shielding Film, onto shielding fabric. http://www.lessemf.com/magnetic_shielding.html

It says that Metglas gets saturated easily and is best suited for when the magnetic field is not strong, so obviously it would not work for refrigerator motors, or vacuum or car floor, but I wonder if it would work for a mat under my mattress on the floor to shield from wires in the floor, or to tape onto a chinese 3 panel screen to put up as a barrier in front of my sleeping area, or as a hat?  

And then there is Giron at http://www.lessemf.com/magnetic_shielding.html

GIRON at $44.95 per foot instead of about $225 per sq foot for Mu Metal sounds like a possible alternative. 

It says Giron cuts with snips, can be used flat or molded into shapes. Is suitable for small shields on magnets, motors, speakers and appliances such as refrigerators, vacuum cleaners etc. Also great for lining car floor or firewall. Perfect for full or partial wall / floor shielding in rooms too! Could even be used to make a (heavy weight) vest to shield a person's torso! Works with AC or DC magnetic fields (0-1000 Hz).

So do you think these materials are an alternative to Mu Metal that would also be affordable and effective for blocking Magnetic Fields? 

Also, do these materials have to be grounded if I wear them or otherwise?

Thanks, I would appreciate any input.

C. Johnson
Superdrove


--- On Wed, 9/21/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


I still find avoidance is easier.



Stewart          
                             
   
 

 
  Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use




   

 
 
 



     




     

  .


   





 



 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So putting a slab across the front of fridge might not do the trick?! Loni

--- On Wed, 9/21/11, S Andreason <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: S Andreason <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] EMF Blocking
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 8:22 PM


 



Loni wrote:
> Wow, mu metal is complicated.

I would say magnetic fields are more complicated, but i think the method
to block magnetics didn't exist before some high-tech discoveries and
methods.

Those with a single axis gauss meter, (directional), may notice that
aiming the meter directly at a motor or power line, does not always get
the highest reading at that location. Rotating the meter, like a cone,
until a higher reading is found, shows the shape of the toroid, and that
it is not linear. More like it travels along a sphere (oversimplified),
so finding the right angle to block that field, is indeed complicated.

Trying to find a picture to better illustrate this...
http://www.g3ynh.info/zdocs/magnetics/diagrams/magflux.gif

In actuality what the mu metal is needing to do is CUT Across the field
lines.

Stewart








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loni wrote:
> So putting a slab across the front of fridge might not do the trick?! Loni
>  

Can you see the shape of the magnetic field? Is the motor mounted on the
left side or the right? Is it oriented vertically or horizontally? Is it
made in China or Mexico?
This is the stuff that drives researchers mad, or uh, happy for a long job.

Why does my 20+ year old Frigidaire have a uneven magnetic bubble around
it? It spikes out on the front quarters, but is low directly in the
front of the door. And of course it is very high in back.
I don't have the patience, or the health, to be playing around with
trying to see how this field is oriented, and thus how best to cut the
lines of force, and create a shielded pocket. It's far easier to avoid
the (fridge/transformer/fan/fill-in-the-blank). At least in a large
enough house it is.

If the "slab" is in the right spot, it might do the trick. Simply too
many variables.

Stewart

C.a.b. Johnson wrote:
>  EMF stands for Electro Magnetic Fields.  So if they are only talking about shielding the Electro part of EMF they should not imply that it is shielding the Magnetic part too.
>
>  
I think we are having a problem with terminology. What name best fits
which new technology?

First everything was EMF. Then wireless needed to be clarified with RF EMF.
Now the term EMR is becoming more used, as when the field sends out
waves for miles, is it still a field? Not really.
At the antenna, the waves are created with the same electricity that
when wound around a coil creates magnetic motors, but instead of a
steady amperage of electricity being drawn, it is chopped up into pulses
of on and off at a specific rate, or frequency. But that magnetic effect
is near-field, only really close to the emitting antenna.

So In this case, the Magnetic part of the name refers to the process of
creating the RF, and not inferring the magnetic field extends for miles.


As to the products you are inquiring about, I'll step back and let
somebody more experienced with them answer.

Stewart

I might be wrong about that. The magnetic component may indeed travel
for miles, but in logrthmic fashion it drops off rapidly with distance.

To quote from a smarter book: " Power flux density (also called
electromagnetic field, measured in W/m2) really consists of two separate
fields: The electric field (measured in V/m) and the magnetic field
(measured in A/m). However, as these do not exist separately anymore at
high frequencies, their separate indication is not really interesting
for RF exposure."
The distance at which the "near-field" can be calculated is given as a
formula, and is dependant on the frequency. Speed of light (C in m/s) /
frequency (Hz) = wavelength (m)
Then multiply Wavelength x 10 = close-up range, inside of which,
measurements are not accurately possible.

For a 900 MHz cell phone, that is a wavelength of 0.33 meters, so inside
of 3.3 meters (10.8 feet), the magnetic and electric fields are *not*
coupled to each other, and must be measured separately.

Still learning...
Stewart


S Andreason wrote:
> So In this case, the Magnetic part of the name refers to the process
> of creating the RF, and not inferring the magnetic field extends for
> miles.
>