Current on metal water and gas pipes

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Current on metal water and gas pipes

Barb Payne
In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse polarity; someungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years old); even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is current on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and likely continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45 milligauss field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes. It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for the most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home. I've started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of recommendations and costs. Itseems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas pipes is a bigger task.Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?

Thanks,
Barb

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

BiBrun
45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?

It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
look things over.

You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
until it's solved.


On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary
> inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years old);
> even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is current
> on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and likely
> continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45 milligauss
> field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes.
> It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for the
> most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home. I've
> started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of recommendations
> and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are
> relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas pipesis
> a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?
>
> Thanks,
> Barb
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

Emil at Less EMF Inc
In reply to this post by Barb Payne
Hi Barb,
An excellent resource for this situation is Karl Riley's book: Tracing EMFs in Building Wiring and Grounding
http://www.lessemf.com/book8.html#530
It will help you (and/or your electrician and plumber) locate the various sources of the problems and shows in detail how to fix them.
Emil

In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years old); even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is current on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and likely continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45 milligauss field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes. It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for the most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home. I've started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of recommendations and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas pipes is a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please? Thanks, Barb



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

Barb Payne
In reply to this post by BiBrun
Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.

I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re ESand/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert. Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and thought I did.

For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but really I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your ideasreally make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's electrical system be grounded?

Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?

During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was alsoat the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable by thebuilding code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either, but that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous conditions for their employees and tradespeople.

--- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

>
> 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
>
> It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> look things over.
>
> You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> until it's solved.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary
> > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years old);
> > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is current
> > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and likely
> > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45 milligauss
> > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes.
> > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for the
> > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home. I've
> > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of recommendations
> > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are
> > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas pipes is
> > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Barb
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

Barb Payne
Could it be possible that rectifying the individual issues such as the one reversed polarity outlet or replacing the old ungrounded outlets with GFCIsmight stop the current from being on the metal pipes? Or is it so hefty at45/90 milligauss that it must have an external source too? Or ...?

Thanks,
Barb


--- In [hidden email], "Barb" <barb@...> wrote:

>
> Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.
>
> I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re ES and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert. Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and thought I did.
>
> For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but really I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your ideas really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's electrical system be grounded?
>
> Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?
>
> During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was also at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable by the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either, butthat the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous conditions for their employees and tradespeople.
>
> --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> >
> > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> >
> > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > look things over.
> >
> > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > until it's solved.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary
> > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years old);
> > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is current
> > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and likely
> > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45 milligauss
> > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes.
> > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (forthe
> > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home. I've
> > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of recommendations
> > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are
> > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas pipes is
> > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

James C Brown
In reply to this post by Barb Payne
Your ground wire from the electrical box at the house entrance should go to
a ground rod (copper rod 10' long driven into the ground). The wire should
be tight on the ground rod.

The ground wire in the electrical box should be tight under the ground screw
on the ground/neutral bar. The neutral wires on the bar should also be
tight. The screws on the circuit breakers should be tight. If you are
unfamiliar call an electrician as there can be 208-240 volts of power driven
by up to 200 amps.

If you still have current flowing to ground check all the plugs and light
switches in the house to be tight. If the problem persists disconnect all
the plugs in the house and if necessary turn off all the circuit breakers
until the problem goes away. Current on the ground wire is from a partial
short someplace. It could be very dangerous and should not be ignored.

Thanks,
Jim


_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barb
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:58 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes




Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The
circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The
SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.

I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know
what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re ES
and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert.
Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and
thought I did.

For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a
house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but really
I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your ideas
really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's
electrical system be grounded?

Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?

During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was also
at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for
current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard
inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable by
the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that
almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either, but
that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous
conditions for their employees and tradespeople.

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill Bruno
<wbruno@...> wrote:

>
> 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
>
> It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> look things over.
>
> You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> until it's solved.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary
> > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
old);
> > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
current
> > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
likely
> > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
milligauss
> > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes.
> > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for
the
> > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
I've
> > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
recommendations
> > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are
> > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
pipes is

> > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Barb
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

Barb Payne
I'm confused. It's my understanding that the current is on the metal water pipes and metal gas pipes NOT on the ground wire.

--- In [hidden email], "James C Brown" <brownjc0@...> wrote:

>
> Your ground wire from the electrical box at the house entrance should go to
> a ground rod (copper rod 10' long driven into the ground). The wire should
> be tight on the ground rod.
>  
> The ground wire in the electrical box should be tight under the ground screw
> on the ground/neutral bar. The neutral wires on the bar should also be
> tight. The screws on the circuit breakers should be tight. If you are
> unfamiliar call an electrician as there can be 208-240 volts of power driven
> by up to 200 amps.
>  
> If you still have current flowing to ground check all the plugs and light
> switches in the house to be tight. If the problem persists disconnect all
> the plugs in the house and if necessary turn off all the circuit breakers
> until the problem goes away. Current on the ground wire is from a partial
> short someplace. It could be very dangerous and should not be ignored.
>  
> Thanks,
> Jim
>  
>
> _____  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barb
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
>
>
>  
>
> Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The
> circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The
> SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.
>
> I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know
> what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re ES
> and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert.
> Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and
> thought I did.
>
> For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a
> house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but really
> I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your ideas
> really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's
> electrical system be grounded?
>
> Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?
>
> During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was also
> at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for
> current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard
> inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable by
> the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that
> almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either, but
> that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous
> conditions for their employees and tradespeople.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill Bruno
> <wbruno@> wrote:
> >
> > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> >
> > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > look things over.
> >
> > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > until it's solved.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A preliminary
> > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
> old);
> > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
> current
> > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
> likely
> > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
> milligauss
> > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas pipes.
> > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for
> the
> > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
> I've
> > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
> recommendations
> > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list are
> > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
> pipes is
> > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share please?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

James C Brown
Some folks run the ground to the cold water pipes instead of a ground rod.
Never ground to a gas pipe. A ground rod is the best place. Any plastic in
the pipe runs will disable the ground and any stray voltage from a neighbors
pipe will come to your house.

Thanks,
Jim


_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barb
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes




I'm confused. It's my understanding that the current is on the metal water
pipes and metal gas pipes NOT on the ground wire.

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , "James C
Brown" <brownjc0@...> wrote:
>
> Your ground wire from the electrical box at the house entrance should go
to
> a ground rod (copper rod 10' long driven into the ground). The wire should
> be tight on the ground rod.
>
> The ground wire in the electrical box should be tight under the ground
screw
> on the ground/neutral bar. The neutral wires on the bar should also be
> tight. The screws on the circuit breakers should be tight. If you are
> unfamiliar call an electrician as there can be 208-240 volts of power
driven

> by up to 200 amps.
>
> If you still have current flowing to ground check all the plugs and light
> switches in the house to be tight. If the problem persists disconnect all
> the plugs in the house and if necessary turn off all the circuit breakers
> until the problem goes away. Current on the ground wire is from a partial
> short someplace. It could be very dangerous and should not be ignored.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> _____
>
> From: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Barb

> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:58 PM
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
>
>
>
>
> Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The
> circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The
> SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.
>
> I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know
> what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re
ES
> and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert.
> Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and
> thought I did.
>
> For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a
> house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but
really
> I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your
ideas
> really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's
> electrical system be grounded?
>
> Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?
>
> During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was
also
> at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for
> current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard
> inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable
by
> the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that
> almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either,
but
> that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous
> conditions for their employees and tradespeople.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill Bruno

> <wbruno@> wrote:
> >
> > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> >
> > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > look things over.
> >
> > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > until it's solved.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A
preliminary

> > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
> old);
> > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
> current
> > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
> likely
> > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
> milligauss
> > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas
pipes.
> > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for
> the
> > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
> I've
> > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
> recommendations
> > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list
are
> > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
> pipes is
> > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share
please?

> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

Barb Payne
Sorry if I'm being dense... I'm confused again (or still!).

I think the current on the gas pipes is on a ground wire strung between thehot water tank and the furnace (not certain about that though); it's not the main ground wire of the house's electrical panel.

Jim, in your final sentence (directly below here), are the two parts of thesentence separate?:
Part 1: Any plastic in the pipe runs will disable the ground
Part 2: Any stray voltage from a neighbors pipe will come to your house

What's the difference/benefit between a ground rod and a ground plate?

Thanks,
Barb

--- In [hidden email], "James C Brown" <brownjc0@...> wrote:

>
> Some folks run the ground to the cold water pipes instead of a ground rod.
> Never ground to a gas pipe. A ground rod is the best place. Any plastic in
> the pipe runs will disable the ground and any stray voltage from a neighbors
> pipe will come to your house.
>  
> Thanks,
> Jim
>  
>
> _____  
>
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barb
> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:15 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
>
>
>  
>
> I'm confused. It's my understanding that the current is on the metal water
> pipes and metal gas pipes NOT on the ground wire.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , "James C
> Brown" <brownjc0@> wrote:
> >
> > Your ground wire from the electrical box at the house entrance should go
> to
> > a ground rod (copper rod 10' long driven into the ground). The wire should
> > be tight on the ground rod.
> >
> > The ground wire in the electrical box should be tight under the ground
> screw
> > on the ground/neutral bar. The neutral wires on the bar should also be
> > tight. The screws on the circuit breakers should be tight. If you are
> > unfamiliar call an electrician as there can be 208-240 volts of power
> driven
> > by up to 200 amps.
> >
> > If you still have current flowing to ground check all the plugs and light
> > switches in the house to be tight. If the problem persists disconnect all
> > the plugs in the house and if necessary turn off all the circuit breakers
> > until the problem goes away. Current on the ground wire is from a partial
> > short someplace. It could be very dangerous and should not be ignored.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of Barb
> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:58 PM
> > To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The
> > circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The
> > SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.
> >
> > I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I know
> > what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re
> ES
> > and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert.
> > Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know and
> > thought I did.
> >
> > For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a
> > house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but
> really
> > I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your
> ideas
> > really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's
> > electrical system be grounded?
> >
> > Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?
> >
> > During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was
> also
> > at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for
> > current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the standard
> > inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable
> by
> > the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and that
> > almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either,
> but
> > that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous
> > conditions for their employees and tradespeople.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill Bruno
> > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> > >
> > > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > > look things over.
> > >
> > > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > > until it's solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A
> preliminary
> > > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
> > old);
> > > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
> > current
> > > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
> > likely
> > > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
> > milligauss
> > > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas
> pipes.
> > > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for
> > the
> > > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
> > I've
> > > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
> > recommendations
> > > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list
> are
> > > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
> > pipes is
> > > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share
> please?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Barb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

James C Brown
Ground rods are a piece of solid copper driven into the ground. I don't know
about ground plates. Folks have done crazy things with grounds. There should
only be one ground for your house and it shouldn't be a pipe. Use a copper
rod. I would get that ground wire between your furnace and hot water tank
fixed. Ground goes back to the main panel and then to the ground rod not to
another appliance.

Thanks,
Jim


_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barb
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 9:02 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes




Sorry if I'm being dense... I'm confused again (or still!).

I think the current on the gas pipes is on a ground wire strung between the
hot water tank and the furnace (not certain about that though); it's not the
main ground wire of the house's electrical panel.

Jim, in your final sentence (directly below here), are the two parts of the
sentence separate?:
Part 1: Any plastic in the pipe runs will disable the ground
Part 2: Any stray voltage from a neighbors pipe will come to your house

What's the difference/benefit between a ground rod and a ground plate?

Thanks,
Barb

--- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , "James C
Brown" <brownjc0@...> wrote:
>
> Some folks run the ground to the cold water pipes instead of a ground rod.
> Never ground to a gas pipe. A ground rod is the best place. Any plastic in
> the pipe runs will disable the ground and any stray voltage from a
neighbors
> pipe will come to your house.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> _____
>
> From: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Barb

> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:15 AM
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
>
>
>
>
> I'm confused. It's my understanding that the current is on the metal water
> pipes and metal gas pipes NOT on the ground wire.
>
> --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , "James C
> Brown" <brownjc0@> wrote:
> >
> > Your ground wire from the electrical box at the house entrance should go
> to
> > a ground rod (copper rod 10' long driven into the ground). The wire
should

> > be tight on the ground rod.
> >
> > The ground wire in the electrical box should be tight under the ground
> screw
> > on the ground/neutral bar. The neutral wires on the bar should also be
> > tight. The screws on the circuit breakers should be tight. If you are
> > unfamiliar call an electrician as there can be 208-240 volts of power
> driven
> > by up to 200 amps.
> >
> > If you still have current flowing to ground check all the plugs and
light
> > switches in the house to be tight. If the problem persists disconnect
all
> > the plugs in the house and if necessary turn off all the circuit
breakers
> > until the problem goes away. Current on the ground wire is from a
partial
> > short someplace. It could be very dangerous and should not be ignored.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of Barb
> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 8:58 PM
> > To: [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Transformer on a pole at the foot of the driveway (not far). The
> > circuitbreaker box is perhaps 8 to 10 feet from the water meter. The
> > SmartMeter is just a few feet above the circuitbreaker box.
> >
> > I would never do the work myself but thanks for saying I sound like I
know
> > what I'm doing! I've educated myself and have experienced quite a lot re
> ES
> > and/or EHS; the surveying of the house was done by an EMF/RF expert.
> > Sometimes I feel like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know
and

> > thought I did.
> >
> > For example, in the past, it seems to me that I heard a few times that a
> > house's electrical system is grounded to the metal water pipes... but
> really
> > I don't have any idea what that actually MEANS. Along with that, your
> ideas
> > really make sense to me, Bill, but then how the heck will the house's
> > electrical system be grounded?
> >
> > Another example... umm, does a plumber also look after the gas pipes?
> >
> > During the survey by the EMF/RF expert, a "regular" home inspector was
> also
> > at the premises. Although the regular home inspection doesn't test for
> > current and/or magnetic fields on metal water and gas pipes, the
standard
> > inspector said that the amount of current found is indeed not acceptable
> by
> > the building code. He also noted that it's a very common scenario and
that
> > almost no one ever tests for it and therefore no one enforces it either,
> but
> > that the authorities wish it didn't happen because it makes dangerous
> > conditions for their employees and tradespeople.
> >
> > --- In [hidden email] <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com>

> <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill Bruno
> > <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> > >
> > > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > > look things over.
> > >
> > > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > > until it's solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's
throwing

> > > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A
> preliminary
> > > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
> > old);
> > > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
> > current
> > > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
> > likely
> > > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
> > milligauss
> > > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas
> pipes.
> > > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated
(for

> > the
> > > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
> > I've
> > > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
> > recommendations
> > > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list
> are
> > > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
> > pipes is
> > > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share
> please?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Barb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes

maureenan-2
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by BiBrun
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes 2

maureenan-2
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Current on metal water and gas pipes 2

Barb Payne
This post was updated on .
It was my understanding that the high magnetic field in my future home is created by the incorrect path the electricity is choosing via the metal pipes (water and gas) and that this could be rectified by installing a grounding plate outside in the front yard. But now you're mentioning that RF (such as from cell tower radiation) could cause magnetic field on a home's metal water pipes/gas pipes?! I'm pretty sure I remember reading that RF itself can travel into a home on the electric wiring, but I don't recall anything about RF creating a magnetic field on any metal wires/pipes inside the house? There is a small satellite dish outside at the top of the chimney. There is also a security system (not enabled when I was at the premises but stilllive in some way as a light was blinking on its circuitboard, and probablyhad battery power even when we turned the home's power off. The RF outsidethe house was: full signal 140 to 350 microwatts per square meter; pulsed 70 to 180. The RF inside the house on the main floor (using minimal shielding fabric at one window) was: full signal 19 to 29; pulsed 6 to 16. The RF inside the basement was: full signal 7 to 12; pulsed 1 to 2. The metal water pipes and gas pipes that have the high magnetic fields are in the basement. I realize that none of those RF readings are BioInitiative ideals but they're a heck of a lot better than where I am now, plus the basement even unshielded is basically wonderful.

Please someone assure me that any RF near or at my future home canNOT be what is putting the magnetic field on the metal water and gas pipes??!?!


> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Bruno" <wbruno@...>
> > To: <eSens@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 4:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Current on metal water and gas pipes
> >
> >
> > > 45 milligauss near the water pipe with the power off?
> > > Could that be due to the electric meter being very close?
> > >
> > > It's normal to have some neutral current, but 45 sounds
> > > a little scary, like there could be an electrical problem.
> > > The reverse polarity is also a bit scary. It sounds like
> > > you know what you are doing, but if not have an electrician
> > > look things over.
> > >
> > > You can get a plumber to add a short section of plastic pex
> > > pipe to the water, and a dielectric union for the gas. The
> > > plumber may say it's not legal to not ground to metal pipes,
> > > but plastic pipes are legal, so ...? Tell the plumber to be careful
> > > and put a jumper wire around the cut. With that much current
> > > he could get zapped otherwise. Then measure the voltage
> > > after removing the wire. If it's more than a few volts it may
> > > indicate some other problem, like a neighbor with a bad neutral?
> > > If it's more than 10 volts I would keep the jumper wire there
> > > until it's solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Barb <barb@...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a few months I'll be moving into a house in Toronto that's throwing
> > > > nasty magnetic fields off into one quadrant of the house. A
> preliminary
> > > > inspection revealed things like: one electrical outlet with reverse
> > > > polarity; some ungrounded outlets (the house is about 55 to 60 years
> > old);
> > > > even when the main power is shut off at the electrical box there is
> > current
> > > > on the water pipes (for sure detected just below the water meter and
> > likely
> > > > continuing through the basement ceiling's bulkhead) creating a 45
> > milligauss
> > > > field (90 with the electricity on); stray current also on the gas
> pipes.
> > > > It's my understanding that this magnetic field can be eliminated (for
> > the
> > > > most part), and even if it's being generated by a neighbouring home.
> > I've
> > > > started researching and I'm coming across a wide variety of
> > recommendations
> > > > and costs. It seems as though a number of items on the "to-do" list
> are
> > > > relatively trivial but the stray current on the metal water and gas
> > pipes is
> > > > a bigger task. Does anyone have experience and/or input to share
> please?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Barb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>