Coherent Space (TM)

Dear John, Andrew and Robert

Is there anything useful at http://www.coherentspace.info? Mr Pinto appears to have a device on offer, recently taken up in the EHS market, by Marc, for evaluation purposes.

John Allman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To: Robert Duncan

Cc: eSens, mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc, Klaus
Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, John McMurtrey, Andrew Grant

Bcc: Profs Steven Rose + Russ Stannard at OU, Dr Francis T at Cambridge,
Carole Smith (she of the 2004 New Criteria paper in that Psycho-Social
journal), Sue J, Dr Gerard Hyland at Warwick

Dear Robert

You wrote, "[Vinny claims] that EMF noise from computers and other sources
may cause 'quantum stress', and according to bio-communication theories I've
studied, it is exactly the opposite."

It is over a quarter of a century since I scraped a distinction on my
quantum mechanics undergraduate course on the single electron atom or ion
(e.g. H, He+, Li++ etc), and shared the DeBroglie Prize that year with
another undergrad. I couldn't remember much about the subject even a week
after my finals, so I haven't a clue today what "quantum stress" is.

As I understand it, Vinny's not asking anyone for money at this stage. Like
yourself, he's offering a prototype device for volunteers to experiment
with, free of charge, to provide some initial anecdotal evidence that his
hypothesis is worth pursuing. He also offers (or appears to be willing to
offer) information about his technology, whatever it may be, so that other
researchers and developers can incorporate it into devices they are
building. Perhaps he wants a confidentiality agreement before disclosing
how his technology functions, because he hasn't applied for a patent yet.

Your scepticism about Vinny's rationale for thinking he's got a hypothesis
worth testing is perhaps better founded than your suspicions. However, he
is primarily addressing the perceived needs of (subjective) EHS sufferers, I
believe, not (subjective) e-harassment sufferers. Whereas you and I might
wonder if some EHS sufferers are really TIs, as Klaus in Germany eventually
came to suspect, the EHS model for explaining similar symptoms is
exceptional sensitivity in vulnerable individals to meaningless EM
background noise produced as a side-effect of benign machinery. That is the
very opposite of our model, information content delivered maliciously to NAD
targeted individuals, in order to entrain the nervous system, which set of
effects I agree could potentially be drowned out by loud enough EM noise,
the more noise the better.

Having wrong reasons for thinking a hypothesis is worth testing isn't reason
enough for rejecting the hypothesis out of hand when the work is already in
progress testing it. If nothing else that benefits us, Vinny's work could
at least provide a diagnostic tool for distingishing between EHS and
e-harassment, other than the subjective impressions of sufferers, which
could be just a matter of personal taste. (An e-harassment TI with a high
complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted
symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS
sufferers with a high "paranoia" level could easily jump to the mistaken
conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

Anyway, at least one EHS sufferer is trying Vinny's invention, Marc. We're
a long way from being to conduct trials of anything of Vinny's or yours with
control groups issued, "blind" to the researcher, with placebo kits, etc.
And, unless we eventually get a correlation whereby subjective EHS people
and subjective TIs report statistically significantly different rates of
effectiveness, we won't have a diagnostic test to distinguish TIs from EHS
sufferers. But I've been into the EHS community partly because we and
they do both need such a test, as badly as we both need tests to distinguish
our respective conditions (assuming that they are different) from (say)
schizophrenia.

By the way, your work with magnets provoked a response, didn't it? Right
after you went public on that, transcranial magnetic stimulation as a
treatment for schizophrenia symptoms akin to V2K weapon abuse hit the
headlines! That enables the establishment to insinuate that your method
works, but not for the reason you supposed, which suggested to you
conducting the project in the first place. However, you at least had a
proposed mechanism that inspired your experiments, whereas they merely have
an empirical result for which they have no proposed mechanism that holds
together, so far as I recall having read. The academic press won't see it
that way in a hurry though, you can bet your bottom dollar.

I must get around to publishing the correspondence with the intelligence
unit arising from my FOIA enquiries about V2K in the UK. Very amusing.

Please keep up the good work.

John Allman

PS Could Frank please forward this to his contact at the Essex-Cambridge
joint EHS research project? I don't have an "in" there like he does.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mind Avenger" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: RE: Coherent Space (TM)


> My personal opinion is that anyone who doesn't truly explain their
> technology in detail and doesn't offer refunds is not one of us. Much of
the
> language sounds like it is trying to confuse the public with their science
> since it is non-western physics. In addition they say that EMF noise from
> computers and other sources may cause "quantum stress", and according to
> bio-communication theories I've studied, it is exactly the opposite. More
> electrical noise you can create the weaker the signal to noise ratio
becomes
> in those frequency bands. I'm not paranoid, but it sounds like a perp
site. appears
> to have a device on offer, recently taken up in the EHS market, by Marc,
for
> evaluation purposes.
>
> John Allman
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Search-say hello!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>

The only real way to find out if this "works" is to try it. I have not
had success with calming devices in general. Even if they do work, they
seem to still bug me. I have not tried this product and it seems
unusually expensive.
If they offer a money back guarantee, I would try it.
Andrew
On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:25 PM, John Allman wrote:

John,
Obviously you are not ES.
Your psycho-babble implies an agenda to prove that ES is bunk.
In your future communications, please remove any insinuations that ES
sufferers are paranoid or somehow have an emotional or mental problem
which lends to ES.


I am fine with double blind tests.

Unless you have ES, you do not understand what we live with or who we
are. Since you don't, I am fine if you would like to test us and
products to see what the results are in properly established
environments. Until then, I ask that you close your text book and open
your mind to what can cause ES.

Attacking me and others on this list and claiming that we may be
schizophrenic or paranoid, is no way to get your point across unless
you just want to destroy our position and try to disclaim us.
Do your homework before stepping into this mine field.
Andrew


On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:50 AM, John Allman wrote:

> n e-harassment TI with a high
> complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted
> symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS
> sufferers with a high "paranoia" level could easily jump to the
> mistaken
> conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

Dear Mr. Allman:

Please immediately cease and desist from sending me uninvited and
unsolicited private email correspondence, and please immediately
cease and desist from distributing my email address to your circle of
friends with the implicaition that you and I have some kind of
ongoing correspondence relationship; we do not. Please understand
that beyond my limited and occasional on-list participation in list
groups such as E-Sens, I am unable to ever engage in private personal
email or telephone correspondence with persons unless I have invited
that contact or unless they have already prepaid me for my consulting
time. As a result of your recent private email sent to a number of
your acquaintances wherein you distributed my email address and made
major misstatements about me and my work, I am already receiving even
more unsolicited attempts at private correspondence from persons on
your private email distribution list. Such overtures at private
personal correspondence were unsolicited, uninvited, and are entirely
unwelcome. Please understand that as a result of my free
informational websites and my lectures and books, I receive over two
dozen uninvited and attempts each day, seven days per week, via
private email and telephone to communicate with me; I respond to none.

Lastly, your published claims that I distribute prototype devices
free of charge to any and all persons is entirely inaccurate and
untrue. Please understand that due to your recent actions, I will no
longer be able to receive private email from your or from anyone on
your private distribution list as I have been forced to add all those
email addresses to my spam list as a prophylactic measure in light of
your recent uninvited behavior. Please understand that I live in the
state of Maryland in the USA, which has extremely strict laws
regarding sending uninvited private emails once a sender has been
asked to cease and desist their activities.

with care,
--Vinny

At 07:50 AM 9/27/2006, John Allman wrote:

Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

Andrew McAfee wrote:
> The only real way to find out if this "works" is to try it. I have not
> had success with calming devices in general. Even if they do work, they
> seem to still bug me.

Yes, well, having tried it now for a couple days, I can say most
certainly that it does *something*. However, a lot of the EMF
devices I've tried do *something*. My major evaluation criteria
is how do I feel after an 8-hour day at work using a device,
where my workplace has me sitting in front of a 21" CRT, under
florescent lights, nearby a wireless internet transmitter, etc.
Without any devices at all, I start feeling pretty bad in less
than an hour. With the right combination of devices, I can
make it 8 hours, without problems.

But this conversation seems to make it sound like EMF protection
devices are novel and new. They aren't. Some of the devices
I've tried were invented and sold in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's.

And if one wants to try a device with a money back guarantee,
there are plenty of those around to try, too. I'd suggest one
could start with QuantumProducts.com or EarthCalm.com.

Marc

John Allman wrote:
> To: Robert Duncan
>
> Cc: eSens, mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc, Klaus
> Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, John McMurtrey, Andrew Grant

Generally, it's considered poor "etiquette" to cc: a discussion group
on private e-mail communications. Also, it's a bit silly, as all of
the replies are not going to be seen by the discussion group, as
the discussion group automatically rejects any e-mails from non-members.

Marc

Hello,

let me say this:

There are several *things* that seem to work for electrosensibles.
There are many people developing *things* that seem to work.

Some do have an idea, others have found in practice that something works.

But nobody knows exactly why it works.
Nobody knows that.
Because some unexplained phenomena are involved.
Some speak about *longitudinal waves*, others about left- or right turning
vortexes, others discuss *photon chemistry*, again others have investigated
special materials, which do have a shielding function.
There seems to be something going on at an atomic level.

Normal people do not have something in their body that can react.
Be aware that EHS people are not normal. And they have something in their
body that reacts, and some may react heavy!

Silvio Hellemann wrote a book: *Handbuch fuer Elektrosensible* in which he
described a number of *things* and *machines*, which would help with
electrosensibility.
I asked him which one he found the best and could recommend me.
He told me: *None, because they all suck up the negative energy, and after a
while, they start transmitting it.*

That is something that indeed occurs, especially with stuff that contain
crystals.

I have also found, that stone bricks may suck up hf signals (like those of a
cordless DECT phone) and after 1 1/2 years start emitting/reflecting those
signals.
(The signals coming TO the bricks were in the beginning 140 uW/m2, and later
200 uW/m2.
In the beginning, no reflection came off. After 1 1/2 year it was 40, than
80 and half a year later the reflection was 140 uW/m2. At the backside of
this wall were no HF sources.
Other people in Germany have experienced this effect also)

So, if Vinny is constructing his devices, it is quite possible that they are
a break-through, although he cannot tell exactly why they work. He may have
an idea, but there are so many different complicated things involved, that
it
is not nice for wanting a foolproof explanation.

However, I have two questions.

1. Does his *thing* give a shielding or protecting effect?
2. Does it have a healing effect?

I have found that by healing the health status of EHS persons, the
sensibility to EMF fields may decrease.

Be also aware that most EHS persons do have a different level of
electrosensibility.
Let us say a level from 1 to 10.
A level 3 person may go down to level 1 with a certain *thing*.

But a level 8 person, with the same *thing*, will not go down to 6, but only
7.5 or even higher.

So, a classification of electrosensibility is needed.
The level of electrosensibility of a person also determines if a certain
*thing* may help or not.

I know people where nothing helps.
I know people who react to a 9Volt battery.

So Vinny, it is essential for you to know what level of test persons
posess.

And Marc Martin is in my opinion not a good test person, because:
1. his level of electrosensibility has been going down
2. he has a lot of gadgets around as protective devices.
3. nobody knows what the interaction between his gadgets and your device may
be.

But that is my personal opinion, because tests must be performed as
objective as possible, and all adjacent influences avoided.
Just go on in the way you have chosen.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
To: "John Allman" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 14:57
Subject: [eSens] Re: Coherent Space (TM)

> And Marc Martin is in my opinion not a good test person, because:
> 1. his level of electrosensibility has been going down
> 2. he has a lot of gadgets around as protective devices.
> 3. nobody knows what the interaction between his gadgets and your device may
> be.

I agree with that -- I think the best test person would be someone
who has never tried such a gadget before, and is very sensitive.
(and for all I know, if Vinny's device is within 10 feet of
some other device I own, it's effect it completely different)

But who am to turn down the opportunity to test a new gadget! :-)

Marc

Dear Andrew

There was no "psycho-babble" in my posting. I did not insinuate that
ES suffers were paranoid, or mention "mental or emotional problems"
at all. It is sheer nonsense to suggest that I have attacked anybody
on this list. I do not understand how your comments relate to what I
actually posted.

Some ES sufferes do experience problems with the "mental health"
industry, I have learnt in this group, because they consult medical
doctors who are uninformed about ES. That is why I mentioned, in
passing, that the development of a diagnostic test that distinguised
scientifically between ES and (say) schizophrenia was desirable. It
isn't because I think that most or all ES sufferers are
schizophrenic, or otherwise mentally ill. I don't suppose many ES
sufferers at all also happen to be schizophrenic. Rather, I pointed
out this need for a diagnostic test because, without it, ES sufferers
are vulnerable to misdiagnosis on the part of the "mental health"
industry, if they consult GPs who have never been trained to diagnose
ES, and who report inaccurately on the patients' symptoms, when
referring their patients to the "mental health" industry.

If you read again what I actually wrote, you will, I feel, want to
apologise, for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely.

John


--- In [hidden email], Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@...> wrote:
>
> John,
> Obviously you are not ES.
> Your psycho-babble implies an agenda to prove that ES is bunk.
> In your future communications, please remove any insinuations that
ES
> sufferers are paranoid or somehow have an emotional or mental
problem
> which lends to ES.
>
>
> I am fine with double blind tests.
>
> Unless you have ES, you do not understand what we live with or who
we
> are. Since you don't, I am fine if you would like to test us and
> products to see what the results are in properly established
> environments. Until then, I ask that you close your text book and
open
> your mind to what can cause ES.
>
> Attacking me and others on this list and claiming that we may be
> schizophrenic or paranoid, is no way to get your point across
unless
> you just want to destroy our position and try to disclaim us.
> Do your homework before stepping into this mine field.
> Andrew
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:50 AM, John Allman wrote:
>
> > n e-harassment TI with a high
> > complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-
inflicted
> > symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas
an EHS
> > sufferers with a high "paranoia" level could easily jump to the
> > mistaken
> > conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)
>

Dear Marc

I take a diametrically opposed view to yours as to what constitutes
etiquette. If I mention somebody in an email, I usually make a point
of copying that email to the person mentioned, as I did with Vinny.  
This is on the principle that I don't like people talking about me
behind my back, so won't do it to others. I apply this principle
even when the "person" mentioned is a group.

Moreover, if I'm writing about non-cinfidential information I have
learnt in a group for which I am grateful, I tend to copy to the
group, so that people in the group find out that their group's
existence and content is of broader benefit than just to the group
members, and in case anybody is interested on the "spin-off".

Knowing your own view of etiquette, so different from mine, I'll make
a point in future of not advising this particular group, when I find
here something interesting enough here to want to tell people outside
the group about it, as was the case with Vinny's invention.

I will also have to talk behind Vinny's back in future, alas, or not
to talk about him at all. That is Vinny's express wish. I got the
wrong impression, from his announcing that he was an inventor, and
his publishing of his email address to the whole world, that he'd
appreciate correspondence with other inventors. I was mistaken. I
regret that Vinny became emotional about this misunderstanding on my
part.

John
--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:
>
> John Allman wrote:
> > To: Robert Duncan
> >
> > Cc: eSens, mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc,
Klaus
> > Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, John McMurtrey, Andrew Grant
>
> Generally, it's considered poor "etiquette" to cc: a discussion
group
> on private e-mail communications. Also, it's a bit silly, as all of
> the replies are not going to be seen by the discussion group, as
> the discussion group automatically rejects any e-mails from non-
members.
>
> Marc
>

> I take a diametrically opposed view to yours as to what constitutes
> etiquette. If I mention somebody in an email, I usually make a point
> of copying that email to the person mentioned, as I did with Vinny.
> This is on the principle that I don't like people talking about me
> behind my back, so won't do it to others. I apply this principle
> even when the "person" mentioned is a group.

Yes, but a discussion group can contain hundreds of people, so one
shouldn't send a private email to one or two people and CC:
a couple hundred people, who have no idea who you are addressing,
nor will they see the replies, because discussion groups typically
block emails from non-subscribers.

My feeling is that if you are going to send a message to a hundreds
of people, you should formulate the message so these people know
what you are talking about, and everyone can see all of the
replies.

Marc

No apology.
Be clearer about what you want up front.

Andrew
On Sep 28, 2006, at 4:39 PM, John Allman wrote:

Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's Co-herent Space
Device. I have had a few years of joint pain (very excruiating at times),
etc. etc... all the common symptoms, but I am still being amazed with my
recovery. No pains anymore... at al!! I am starting to actively participate
in a social life now. It was a real effort before and I was tired, fatigued
and not interested in idle chatter. Everyday I am feeling happy and relaxed
inside, I sleep like a log and I just feel so grateful that I have been
given my life back again. My home is under constant radiation from outside
powerlines just metres from my home and there is no escape within the home
from them. Levels hover around 12mG day and night. I carry my device with me
everywhere. It certainly works for me.

Kind regards,
Helen - Australia


On 9/29/06, Andrew McAfee <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's
> Co-herent Space Device.

Thanks for that report, Helen!

Did you consider yourself hypersensitive to electricity
before getting Vinny's device? That is, did you get an
obvious, immediate bad reaction when you were close to
electromagnetic fields?

Did you have any initial adjustment period where the
device caused you problems?

Marc

Hi Marc:

I am gonnna take a stab at giving you an answer because it is my
understanding that Helen does not get on the web very frequently;
please understand any information or e-mail excerpts which I share
from, or about, Helen have been shared with her explicit permission.
To answer your question:

I do not believe that Helen had ever considered herself ES -- nor had
she ever thought twice about ES -- until she moved a few years ago
into a house very close to powerlines, after which she almost
immediately started to experience a wide variety of adverse symptoms;
some of which were very severe and alarming. Apparently, it took her
over a year before she realized that her symptoms might be due to ES.
I will share a part of one of her original emails to me below, but
before sharing her letter, I would like to state that I feel that her
report of these strong benefits from my Coherent Space Quantum
Coherence devies is somewhat unusual: my observation is that some
folks who are exposed to these devices report that they feel no
effects at all, and some others simply report mild shifts such as a
more colorful dreams, happier dreams, noticing more and varied scents
in various parts of their home, disappearance of headaches, or having
a bit more energy. And then, some folks, including Rick, the very
down-to-earth analytical chemist whose report appears on my Coherent
Space website, and myself included, experience stronger (beneficial)
reactions to the devices, even though we had NEVER considered
ourselves particularly electrosensitive in the past; as a result, the
strong benefits which we experienced were a surprise to us. So, Helen
falls in the group of people who do have rather strong ES symptoms
and who respond well, which I feel accounts for only about 15% to 25%
of users of my devices; please bear in mind here that the vast
majority of the purchasers of my prototype devices are people who
have never described themselves as ES; I have historically never
tended to market my prototypes to the ES community but rather simply
to people who are already rather healthy and are simply looking to
experiment with ways to increase their levels of health and vitality
even further.

Anyway, here is an excerpt from one of Helen's first letters to me,
sent before she purchased the device:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The past few years has seen the universe sending me me on a merry
dance around EMR's. First I buy a house... but don't notice the
powerlines are very close, nor of their possible harmful effects.
Over the next few years I experience all kinds of unexplainable
health problems....
...In my 2nd year, I brought home a gauss meter and everything
started to fall into place. My home interior ranges from 6mG to 15mG,
usually averaging 12mG.
As shielding is almost impossible, I have been using only a grounding
sheet on my bed which has really become my saviour for the past year,
at least while sleeping. My body no longer vibrates, heats up and
sends me into a shock, but I can't be in the house for too long
unless I sit on the bed.
Firstly, my needs are to find something to protect myself from the
powerlines (50/60 Hz) while at home and secondly, to help bring forth
something that actually does work by using myself as the guinea-pig.
I have tried a few "devices"on the market & if I unplug my grounding
sheet (staked with a copper rod in the earth), they do nothing to
stop the vibrating etc.
I have read right through the NCI website & would like to consider
the purchase of a CS Device for Individual Biofields PoP Model IND-14
if you think it would be suited to my intended use.
HM
Australia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, I replied to her initial queery that my first recommendation
would simply be to forget about using any protective devices, and I
replied that instead, if I were in her shoes, I would consider moving
immediately from the house. She replied that moving was impossible
and asked for my advice on my devices. I replied that my intuitive
sense told me that my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices would
likely help her a lot, but I recommended that she consider purchasing
a larger device than the tiny IND-14 prototype model which she had
proposed, and I recommended that she consider at least the AUTO-21
model, if not a larger model, simply due to the severity of the
electrosmog exposure thate she was facing.

Lastly, she reported, after having used the device for over one
month, that she had indeed experienced some temporary cleansing
symptoms in the beginning; I believe the main temporary symptoms were
sneezing. Interestingly, she reported that her husband, who had never
consider himself ES, suddenly started reported that he was sleeping
much better and very deeply and peacefully once she received the
device (she tells me that she brings it into the bedroom each night
while they sleep, as its range of strongest effect is a radius of
only about 15 to 18 feet.)

Hope this helps!

with care,
--Vinny

At 10:24 AM 9/29/2006, you wrote:

Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

Hi Marc and folks:

By the way, allow me to proactively address one issue which I touched
upon in my letter below, to perhaps forestall another flood of
private inquiries from list group members and others in the ES/EHS/EH
community. Since I have joined this lit group and also partly because
some ES sufferers have heard of me via other avenues, a number of ES
or EHS or EH sufferers -- that is, people who describe themselves as
ES (or EHS or EH) -- have contacted me and asked with a bit of
amazement why I do not seem to ever make any effort to market my
devices to the ES/EHS/EH communities. The answer to that question is
a bit subtle, and thus, I usually respond as follows:

I reply that, as a trained scientist and engineeer, and also an
intuitive, I have been playing with testing and creating such devices
in my lab since the mid-1970's, but that I have never played with
them because I considered myself particularly ES, but rather simply
because my inner guidance from Holy Spirit and my angels asked me to
do so at times. And, at the time Holy Spirit and my angels nudged me
to go back into my lab and develop this latest generation of devices
in April, May and early June of 2006, I already considered msyelf
quite healthy and certainly would never have considered myself to be
ES. Rather, I did the R&D work as asked simply because Holy Spirit
had asked me to (and all the activities in my life, including what I
eat and what prices I charge for devices are based on guidance from
Holy Spirit), and also because I have always assumed (since he early
1970s) that ALL humans and animals likely suffer some mild adverse
health/energy effects -- both short-term and chronic -- from exposure
to electrosmog, even though the vast majority of us (myself included)
would never experience adverse effects so strong that would be
labeled as ES. In fact, even though I experienced some rather
unexpected strong benefits from using my latest generation of
devices, I would not label myself as an ES sufferer.

And, I have felt quite healthy for quite a few years now, and as a
healer myself, my focus tends to be almost exclusively upon allowing
myself (and others with whom I work) upon reaching ever-higher levels
of health and vitality and well-being, rather than any kind of focus
on disease. In other words, in my own life and in my work with
clients, I focus only on those qualities of which I would like to see
more in my life; qualities such as greater health, vitality,
well-being and greater capacity for love, rather than focusing upon
illness or disease or suffering. And, this focus of mine -- a focus
upon greater levelso of health, well-being, vitality and lovingness
rather than upon diease or illness -- tends to guide not only my
spiritual healing work, but it also carries over strongly into the
various areas in which I offer consulting as well, areas such as raw
food diets, beneficial antioxidative antientropic microbes,
nutritional antioxidants and health coaching.

So, by the time -- in June of this year -- that I was asked by Holy
Spirit to start marketing some of my devices as PoP prototypes, I was
already feeling very healthy myself, and while I appreciated the fact
that my devices allowed me to have even higher levels of energy and
well-being than I had enjoyed prior to using them, I did not, and do
not, consider myself to be someone who is or was an ES sufferer. And
thus, because of this fact and because of my very strong inner bias
(i.e., toward health and vitality and not toward disease) as
disclosed in the above paragraph, I naturally started to share
information about my devices with my friends, acquaintances and
colleagues, and, of course, with the many people who belong to one or
more of my various list groups devoted to raw foods diets, sungazing,
beneficial antioxidative microbes and uber-vitality. Now, these
people whom I have mentioned above -- my friends, colleagues,
acquaintances and most members of my list groups -- are largely folks
like myself, that is, their focus is simply on allowing themselves to
reach ever-greater levels of health, well-being, vitality and
lovingness (rather than any focus on disease or suffering). And so,
all of my early customers for my prototype devices were folks from
this group, a community of people who tend to focus upon vitality and
well-being and who do not usually concern themselves with disease or
suffering.

Now, please add to the information I have shared above one more fact
-- the fact that I hate making health claims for anything, whether it
be nutritional products, exercises, techniques, or devices. For me,
that feels like skating too close to the whole Western disease
paradigm, which is not my world. And rather, I prefer to continue to
focus simply on ways of allowing greater levels of vitality and well-being.

It is now mid-September 2006, and I continue to offer my prototype
devices for sale to interested experimenters. And, as has been true
since June, when I first started offering the devices, I tend to
offer the devices primarily to persons who are not immersed in one or
more disease models or disease/disorder descriptors, but rather to
people who are focused largely upon health, well-being, happiness,
and vitality, and who have been guided on an inner level to
experiment with these devices as one more way to possibly allow
greater levels of these qualities!

So, it is entirely true that I have never tried to market my devices
to the ES community, and, as a matter of fact, I would be rather wary
of selling any of my prototype devices to anyone from the
self-identified ES community, since there seems be a good chance that
their focus might be upon disease (again, that is not my world), and
worse, they might have excessive and incorrect expectations that my
devices might somehow heal them, and this is not true -- my devices
are not medical devices and I make no health claims for them. Worse,
there are already many organizations trying to market all kinds of
various supposed "remedies" to the ES community, and I have no desire
to be trying to market anything to anyone, nor to be making any kind
of health claims at all for my devices... Thus, the bottom line is
that I prefer to offer my prottopye devices only to those who are
focused on health and vitality and who have been guided on an inner
level to play with my devices. This is a FAR DIFFERENT focus from
trying to claim that my devices will help ES, EHS and EH sufferers.

So, for those many folks who have contacted me and asked why I seem
to refuse to try to market my devices to the ES, EHS and
(self-described) EH communites, and rather, why I seem to offer them
largely to folks from other sectors, well... you may find your answer
in my notes above!

with love and care,
--Vinny

At 11:14 AM 9/29/2006, I had written:

Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us

Hello,

my 2 cents:

There are three types of persons with regard to elektrosmog;

1. the normal healthy people who do not have any reactions at all. Yet!!!!
2. the sensitive people with a health history, who may become
electrosensible by exposures of more than 200 uW/m2
3. the already electrosensible people, who may react at 1 uW/m2.

If we look at the category 2 type of persons, we see, that those are not
completely healthy.
They even may have hidden sickening agents in their body, lurking to come
out.

Such persons may have a benefit of the machines Vinny is promoting.

As I am saying, making the body healthier, the sensibility to elektrosmog
goes down.

As a consequence, it may also be, that these machines do not improve the
level of electrosensibility as so much, but do more improve the health state
of the body, by which the level of sensibility decreases.
So, it is quite possible that Vinnys machine *smashes two flies with one
hit*.

Just a thought.
I have never seen or experienced Vinnys machines.
So I am just guessing.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Pinto" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 17:14
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Coherent Space (TM)

> have contacted me and asked with a bit of
> amazement why I do not seem to ever make any effort to market my
> devices to the ES/EHS/EH communities.

It's just as well that you do not market to the ES communities,
as ES folks are probably the most problematic audience for the
makers of EMF protection devices!

That is, folks with ES expect to see their ES symptoms to go
away if they buy an EMF protection device, and that almost
nearly never happens.

Marc

Hi Marc:

I agree to at least a large extent with your statement below, and
that is all the more reason why I am glad that I never try to market
the prototypes to the ES or EHS or EH communities. In fact, the
bizarre reality is that I do not market the prototype devices at all
in any sector, nor to any sector, but rather I simply let their
existence be known in certain circles and then I trust that only
those people who were guided to do so by their inner guidance (i.e.,
Supreme Heart or Holy Spirit) will ever purchase the prototype
devices for their own experiements. And, even then, as some list
members here can surely testify (smile!), I regularly turn away
prospective purchasers of these devices if I feel that the devices
may not help or if I feel that the expectations or agendas of the
prospective purchaser are unreasonable, unrealistic, or inappropriate.

And, speaking for a moment as an intuitive and spiritual healer, it
is my personal observation that for the vast majority of folks who
are diagnosed as strongly ES or EHS (or EH, for that matter), the
ES/EHS syndrome seems to be merely a symptom of imbalances or
toxicities elswehere in the complex of body/mind/spirit, and thus
that makes it all the more difficult for any single device or
technique or modality to completely and permanently ameliorate ALL of
the ES or EHS symptoms of those sufferers, as the true root cause or
problem goes well beyond the body's reaction to certain components of EMF.

with care,
--Vinny

At 02:33 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote:

Vinny Pinto
[hidden email]

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:
http://www.vinnypinto.us