Chelators

I've been reading here that people react differently to chelators but
is there any advice about what to start with?

Also, how do you know it is working?!

Thanks,
Aline

Aline wrote:
> I've been reading here that people react differently to chelators but
> is there any advice about what to start with?

A highly controversial subject to be sure. People spend plenty of
time arguing about this subject on heavy metal chelation discussion
groups.

I've tried at least a dozen different heavy metal chelators. I've
had good reactions, no reactions, and bad reactions. In the end,
I've found that I've done the best with:

- NDF: mobilizes mercury out of your cells and into your bloodstream
(but doesn't necessarily get it all out)

- Mega-H / Megahydrin: cleans up what the NDF might have missed

- Cellfood: Makes me healthy enough so that I can actually
take a reasonable dose of NDF (minerals?)

- Spectramin: more minerals, to feel better during chelation

- Echinacea Premium: supposed to be a "blood cleanser", and does
indeed make me feel better several hours after
taking a chelator.

- Agrisept-L: stirring up heavy metals in your system can
make any candida problems worse, so you may need to take
something to keep this in check.

The above is what I do, based on years of trial & error with
lots of supplements, most of which aren't worth mentioning. :-)
But again, what works for me may do nothing for you.

On a heavy metal group I'm on, there is a lot of excitement about
a newer supplement called "NCD" (natural cellular defense). My
holistic dentist has reported good results in his clients as well.
I've found this stuff rather harsh and difficult to tolerate,
so not everyone has such good luck with it.

And then there are the followers of the "Andy Cutler protocol",
which consists of taking DMSA and ALA at frequent doses throughout
the day (and night). I've never tried this, but I suspect that
my general intolerance towards almost all chelators would probably
prohibit me from taking DMSA (there are lots of horror stories
from people who've tried).

And probably the most important thing of all is dosage -- a chelator
can give you a terrible reaction if you take too much of it, but
make you feel better if you take an amount which is "just
right" for you at the time. And as you get better, that "just
right" amount will likely increase. Again, trial & error is
needed here, and be cautious about any new supplement at first!

> Also, how do you know it is working?!

Well, if you take too much of it, you'll feel pretty bad (headache,
dehydrated, "metallic taste" in mouth, exhaustion, muscle aches,
head pressure. But at least you'll know that it is successfully
mobilizing toxins! Actually, you should never be continually
taking a dosage that's going to make you feel bad. You should
find a dosage that makes you feel better than when you started
(when taken at the right dose, NDF actually improves my short-term
tolerance for computers).

The only way to know if something is truly working is to assess
your overall health, and see if it is improving with time. And
be patient -- detoxing can takes years! So certainly choose
something that you are comfortable with taking long term.

Marc

A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to chelation -
(1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2) getting it
out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the kidneys. The second
stage is vital immediately after amalgam removal, to make sure any mercury
vapour you do accidentally ingest gets mopped up and expelled as fast as
possible, and does not get into other parts of the body where it can do more
harm (especially the brain).
 
One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the rubber
dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the dentist to STOP at
once! It does not happen often but, as we now know to our cost, if it does,
it has severe bad effects for mercury-sensitive individuals.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 14 August 2007 01:00
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Chelators



Aline wrote:
> I've been reading here that people react differently to chelators but
> is there any advice about what to start with?

A highly controversial subject to be sure. People spend plenty of
time arguing about this subject on heavy metal chelation discussion
groups.

I've tried at least a dozen different heavy metal chelators. I've
had good reactions, no reactions, and bad reactions. In the end,
I've found that I've done the best with:

- NDF: mobilizes mercury out of your cells and into your bloodstream
(but doesn't necessarily get it all out)

- Mega-H / Megahydrin: cleans up what the NDF might have missed

- Cellfood: Makes me healthy enough so that I can actually
take a reasonable dose of NDF (minerals?)

- Spectramin: more minerals, to feel better during chelation

- Echinacea Premium: supposed to be a "blood cleanser", and does
indeed make me feel better several hours after
taking a chelator.

- Agrisept-L: stirring up heavy metals in your system can
make any candida problems worse, so you may need to take
something to keep this in check.

The above is what I do, based on years of trial & error with
lots of supplements, most of which aren't worth mentioning. :-)
But again, what works for me may do nothing for you.

On a heavy metal group I'm on, there is a lot of excitement about
a newer supplement called "NCD" (natural cellular defense). My
holistic dentist has reported good results in his clients as well.
I've found this stuff rather harsh and difficult to tolerate,
so not everyone has such good luck with it.

And then there are the followers of the "Andy Cutler protocol",
which consists of taking DMSA and ALA at frequent doses throughout
the day (and night). I've never tried this, but I suspect that
my general intolerance towards almost all chelators would probably
prohibit me from taking DMSA (there are lots of horror stories
from people who've tried).

And probably the most important thing of all is dosage -- a chelator
can give you a terrible reaction if you take too much of it, but
make you feel better if you take an amount which is "just
right" for you at the time. And as you get better, that "just
right" amount will likely increase. Again, trial & error is
needed here, and be cautious about any new supplement at first!

> Also, how do you know it is working?!

Well, if you take too much of it, you'll feel pretty bad (headache,
dehydrated, "metallic taste" in mouth, exhaustion, muscle aches,
head pressure. But at least you'll know that it is successfully
mobilizing toxins! Actually, you should never be continually
taking a dosage that's going to make you feel bad. You should
find a dosage that makes you feel better than when you started
(when taken at the right dose, NDF actually improves my short-term
tolerance for computers).

The only way to know if something is truly working is to assess
your overall health, and see if it is improving with time. And
be patient -- detoxing can takes years! So certainly choose
something that you are comfortable with taking long term.

Marc


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Ian and Marc.

I have postponed my appointments until I have a grasp of all this.
Also found that the dentist is not doing all the things that he says
on his website when I questioned closely.

Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe
through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the
air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some
mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room.

I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury
toxicity really seriously.

I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a
year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume
vacuum).

Aline



In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to
chelation -
(1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2)
getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the
kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam
removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest
gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get
into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially
the brain).
 
One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the
rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the
dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now
know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury-
sensitive individuals.

Ian

> I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury
> toxicity really seriously.

Realize that all dentists do not agree on what factors are
important for mercury removal. For example, some dentists
feel that you must measure the electrical charge on all of your
fillings, and then remove them in decreasing order
of electrical charge. My dentist said that he used to
do this, but didn't feel that it made any difference
in the results, so he stopped this practice.

I'm not sure that supplemental air is really all that important.
When my dentist removed my fillings, it literally took less
than than a minute to get each one out. You could hold your
breath for that long if you wanted to... :-)

Also, there is a factor that you're probably not considering
at all -- the novocaine. It was my experience that being
given a shot of novocaine mobilized mercury
that had been stored my cells, and that caused most of
my over-detoxing symptoms. And nobody even mentions
the novocaine as being a potential issue (I realized
this connection when I was later having a crown redone,
and had the same detox symptoms even though no mercury
was involved).

Novocaine and Procaine are actually used by some doctors
for mercury mobilization / chelation. It's a practice
known as "neural therapy", where you make injections in
places where large amounts of toxins may be stored in
the body, and has been promoted by Dr. Klinghardt. I
even had this done once on a scar on my leg.

But Ian has made an important point -- there are two
issues here... mobilizing the toxins into the bloodstream,
and then getting those toxins out of the body. Many
of the things advertised as chelators actually only
get the toxins into your bloodstream, and then assume
that your liver and kidneys will do the rest to get
the stuff out of the body. Unfortunately, this
is a bad assumption for people who are severely poisoned --
if these organs were functioning correctly in the
first place, no poisoning would have ever occurred!
So for us, finding substances which will bind onto
toxins in the bloodstream and get them out of the body
are very important.

Marc

My worry would be more around the possibility of mercury vapour immediately
after release being absorbed through the tissues of the mouth, or even small
amounts getting past the air dam. If one is sensitive enough to mercury
that the small amount continuously leaching from the fillings makes a
difference, their removal carries obvious dangers as it mobilises large
amounts of mercury suddenly in a very mobile gaseous form. Once it is in
the room, however, it should dilute down very fast in the large amount of
air.
 
So the ringing in your ear began after filling removal - well yes, that's
what happened to Sue, except that it feels like it is not just in one ear,
but acrosss a fair amount of her head.
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Aline
Sent: 15 August 2007 20:58
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Chelators



Thanks, Ian and Marc.

I have postponed my appointments until I have a grasp of all this.
Also found that the dentist is not doing all the things that he says
on his website when I questioned closely.

Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe
through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the
air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some
mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room.

I am feeling that neither of these dentists are taking mercury
toxicity really seriously.

I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a
year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume
vacuum).

Aline

In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ian Kemp"
<ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:

A key point to remember is that there are in effect 2 stages to
chelation -
(1) getting it out of your cells and into the bloodstream and (2)
getting it out of the bloodstream and out of your body via the
kidneys. The second stage is vital immediately after amalgam
removal, to make sure any mercury vapour you do accidentally ingest
gets mopped up and expelled as fast as possible, and does not get
into other parts of the body where it can do more harm (especially
the brain).

One other point, if at any stage during extraction you feel that the
rubber dam may have slipped or something is going wrong, get the
dentist to STOP at once! It does not happen often but, as we now
know to our cost, if it does, it has severe bad effects for mercury-
sensitive individuals.

Ian



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a
> year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume
> vacuum).

I don't suppose you remember how much drilling time was spent to
remove these fillings? My dentist pointed out that its best
to get them out in chunks, to minimize the amount of drilling
and minimize the amount of exposure to mercury vapor. Also,
a water-cooled drill is supposed to help with this.

Marc

> Both amalgam-free dentists do not use supplemental air to breathe
> through the nose. One of them said he thinks it is better that the
> air is filtered in the room but obviously one is going to ingest some
> mercury vapor before it gets sucked out of the room.

I suppose you should also consider that as long as you have
those amalgam fillings in your mouth, you are breathing mercury
vapors 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. So you need to weigh
the benefits/drawbacks of a couple of minutes of increased
mercury vapor in the dentists office versus the continual
exposure you are getting right now (and the continual
exposure increases when exposed to certain EMF fields
and hot foods/beverages)

But I understand about wanting to be educated and taking
the proper precautions. Prior to my filling removal,
I bought and read 7 books on the subject, and I can still
remember coming home from the dentist and
immediately putting all my clothes in the washing machine
and taking a shower to eliminate any residual mercury!

Marc

>> I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a
>> year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume
>> vacuum).

Also, remember that opening wide for long periods can affect the TMJ (jaw
joint) which in turn can cause tinnitus. It's possible that your symptoms
may not be caused by the mercury at all. Not all dots can be connected by a
straight line!

Emil (retired dentist)

Hi Emil,

That is interesting to know. Yes, everything is conjecture: I also had
a long-haul flight (17 hours in the air) a few days before the tinnitus
started so I have wondered about the pressure compacting ear wax.

Another clue was that the ringing got very loud one day while I was
sitting near a wi-fi box emitting to a microphone.

My intuition is that mercury is involved in my tinnitus and my ES,
however, so I want to minimize ingestion as much as possible.

Aline

In [hidden email], "Less EMF Inc" <lessemf@...> wrote:
>
> >> I have had ringing in one ear since I had 2 huge fillings removed a
> >> year ago without supplemental air (he used a dam and high volume
> >> vacuum).
>
> Also, remember that opening wide for long periods can affect the TMJ
(jaw
> joint) which in turn can cause tinnitus. It's possible that your
symptoms
> may not be caused by the mercury at all. Not all dots can be
connected by a
> straight line!
>
> Emil (retired dentist)
>

Thanks Marc,

That is definitely food for thought. I'm going to stick to gradual
removal.

Need to get chelation/detoxing organized first though before I re-
make my appointment.

Sometimes I feel confused and overwhelmed for long periods of time
but I have to remind myself that I usually get clarity eventually.
It's a steep learning curve though.

Aline

In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

Realize that all dentists do not agree on what factors are
important for mercury removal. For example, some dentists
feel that you must measure the electrical charge on all of your
fillings, and then remove them in decreasing order
of electrical charge. My dentist said that he used to
do this, but didn't feel that it made any difference
in the results, so he stopped this practice.

I'm not sure that supplemental air is really all that important.
When my dentist removed my fillings, it literally took less
than than a minute to get each one out. You could hold your
breath for that long if you wanted to... :-)

Also, there is a factor that you're probably not considering
at all -- the novocaine. It was my experience that being
given a shot of novocaine mobilized mercury
that had been stored my cells, and that caused most of
my over-detoxing symptoms. And nobody even mentions
the novocaine as being a potential issue (I realized
this connection when I was later having a crown redone,
and had the same detox symptoms even though no mercury
was involved).

Novocaine and Procaine are actually used by some doctors
for mercury mobilization / chelation. It's a practice
known as "neural therapy", where you make injections in
places where large amounts of toxins may be stored in
the body, and has been promoted by Dr. Klinghardt. I
even had this done once on a scar on my leg.

But Ian has made an important point -- there are two
issues here... mobilizing the toxins into the bloodstream,
and then getting those toxins out of the body. Many
of the things advertised as chelators actually only
get the toxins into your bloodstream, and then assume
that your liver and kidneys will do the rest to get
the stuff out of the body. Unfortunately, this
is a bad assumption for people who are severely poisoned --
if these organs were functioning correctly in the
first place, no poisoning would have ever occurred!
So for us, finding substances which will bind onto
toxins in the bloodstream and get them out of the body
are very important.

Marc