Basement Homes?

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Loni Rosser

Basement Homes?

Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation? Anyone have one that can advise?

Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your home?

Thanks, Loni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

KathyB

Re: Basement Homes?

Loni,

I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring & radon & mold free. .

We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free ceiling places you can locate.

I tested
w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on our wring.
I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free space *& live in a valley.

Kathy

From: Loni <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM

Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation? Anyone have one that can advise?

Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your home?

Thanks, Loni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BiBrun

Re: Basement Homes?

Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply loads
pulsing with the microwaves.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Loni,
>
> I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring &
> radon & mold free. .
>
> We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
> safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free ceiling
> places you can locate.
>
> I tested
> w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on
> our wring.
> I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
> space *& live in a valley.
>
> Kathy
>
> From: Loni <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
> Anyone have one that can advise?
>
>
>
> Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your home?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Loni
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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C.a.b. Johnson

Population Control with Microwaves?

In reply to this post by KathyB

Hi, folks,

In case you haven't read these, here are a couple of articles illustrating how the poorer regions of the world would appear to be getting higher, unregulated doses of radiation from cell towers. Intentional?? You decide,

http://electromagnetichealth.org/electromagnetic-health-blog/delhi-india/

<snip>

4 out of 5 Delhi, India Residents Living in Dangerous Radiation from Cell Phone Towers

27.08.2010 by emily

A
June 14th, 2010 article published on MedIndia.net states that almost
four-fifths of Delhi, India residents may be living in dangerous levels
of radiation produced by cell phone towers across the city, according
to a recent study commissioned by Tehelka magazine.

Out of 100 sites included in the study, 40 were found to have
“extreme anomaly” levels of radiation, in which EMR exposure is seven
times what is considered to be the safe limit.

According to the Tehelka report, the levels of non-nuclear radiation
in Delhi have likely surged to such hazardous levels due to
insufficient regulation of cell phone tower construction.

The one-fifth of Dehli where radiation levels are deemed to be safe
is the “VVIP” (very very important person) zone, where people such as
the president of India’s congress reside.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22Tejo%20Fde%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D
Sci Total Environ. 2011 Sep 1;409(19):3649-65. Epub 2011 Jul 13.

Mortality by neoplasia and cellular telephone base stations in the Belo Horizonte municipality, Minas Gerais state, Brazil.

<snip>

The results show that approximately 856 BSs (i.e. Base Stations or Cell Towers) were installed through December 2006. Most (39.60%) of the BSs were located in the "Centro-Sul" ('Central-Southern') region of the municipality. Between 1996 and 2006, 7191 deaths by neoplasia occurred and within an area of 500 m from the BS, the mortality rate was 34.76 per 10,000 inhabitants. Outside of this area, a decrease in the number of deaths by neoplasia occurred. The greatest accumulated incidence was 5.83 per 1000 in the Central-Southern region and the lowest incidence was 2.05 per 1000 in the Barreiro region. During the environmental monitoring, the largest accumulated electric field measured was 12.4 V/m and the smallest was 0.4 V/m. The largest density power was 40.78μW/cm(2), and the smallest was 0.04μW/cm(2).
<unsip>

Gee, 35 deaths out of 1,000 within 500 meters of a Cell Tower is very high, statistically.

Then watch this Youtube video by Dr. Magda Havas:

Conspiracy Theory: Population Control & Microwave Radiation
http://www.magdahavas.com/2011/01/10/population-control-microwave-radiation/

Dr. Havas says: This video is deliberately intended to be provocative. Am I a supporter of conspiracy theories? NO. Those with wealth and power have always tried, and will continue to try, to increase their wealth and power (combination of both greed and insecurity) and they will manipulate situations in their favor.

C. Johnson
Wireless Refugee
[hidden email]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

urbanpinetrees3

Re: Basement Homes?

In reply to this post by BiBrun

I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires. Telephone wires too.

K
- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

>
> Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply loads
> pulsing with the microwaves.
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Loni,
> >
> > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring &
> > radon & mold free. .
> >
> > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
> > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free ceiling
> > places you can locate.
> >
> > I tested
> > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on
> > our wring.
> > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
> > space *& live in a valley.
> >
> > Kathy
> >
> > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
> > Anyone have one that can advise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your home?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Loni
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Elizabeth thode

RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

Yes folks. This is true.
Lizzie
Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF Electrical Consultant July 2010

Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings (60 Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency harmonics that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The exponential increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and computer equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these harmonics in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry more energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can come from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for the new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency energy in short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to an RF pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers, printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like variable speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz sine wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the wiring.
Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc). But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the wiring, water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the residence or building.
It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where the neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT have to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart meter is installed.

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?

I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires. Telephone wires too.

K
- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

BiBrun

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is going
to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
(180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency). I've
never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM radio
will sure buzz...

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yes folks. This is true.
> Lizzie
> Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
> Electrical Consultant July 2010
>
> Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings (60
> Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency harmonics
> that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The exponential
> increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and computer
> equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these harmonics
> in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry more
> energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
> Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
> frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can come
> from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for the
> new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency energy in
> short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
> Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to an RF
> pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
> energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
> printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like variable
> speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz sine
> wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the wiring.
> Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to
> send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
> But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs
> around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the wiring,
> water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
> residence or building.
> It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where the
> neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT have
> to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart meter
> is installed.
>
>
>
> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
> Telephone wires too.
>
> K
> - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> >
> > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply loads
> > pulsing with the microwaves.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Loni,
> > >
> > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring &
> > > radon & mold free. .
> > >
> > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
> > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
> ceiling
> > > places you can locate.
> > >
> > > I tested
> > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on
> > > our wring.
> > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
> > > space *& live in a valley.
> > >
> > > Kathy
> > >
> > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
> > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your
> home?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, Loni
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

BiBrun

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

Actually, some caveats are in order. In coax power lines, yes, you can
transmit microwaves. And underground wiring is often coax.
But it's not going to go through a transformer, except mainly as common
mode noise, and that will radiate away quickly.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Bill Bruno <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is going
> to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
> just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
> unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
> quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
> much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency). I've
> never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM radio
> will sure buzz...
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes folks. This is true.
>> Lizzie
>> Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
>> Electrical Consultant July 2010
>>
>> Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings
>> (60 Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency
>> harmonics that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The
>> exponential increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office
>> and computer equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased
>> these harmonics in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve
>> with electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry
>> more energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
>> frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
>> Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
>> frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can come
>> from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for the
>> new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency energy in
>> short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
>> Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to an
>> RF pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
>> energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
>> matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
>> printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like variable
>> speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz sine
>> wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the wiring.
>> Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to
>> send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
>> But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs
>> around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the wiring,
>> water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
>> residence or building.
>> It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where
>> the neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT
>> have to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart
>> meter is installed.
>>
>>
>>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
>> Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
>> induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
>> Telephone wires too.
>>
>> K
>> - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
>> > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
>> > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply
>> loads
>> > pulsing with the microwaves.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > > **
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Loni,
>> > >
>> > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring
>> &
>> > > radon & mold free. .
>> > >
>> > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
>> > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
>> ceiling
>> > > places you can locate.
>> > >
>> > > I tested
>> > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is
>> on
>> > > our wring.
>> > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
>> > > space *& live in a valley.
>> > >
>> > > Kathy
>> > >
>> > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
>> > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
>> > > To: [hidden email]
>> > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
>> > > Anyone have one that can advise?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your
>> home?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks, Loni
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Loni Rosser

Re: Basement Homes?

In reply to this post by urbanpinetrees3

Isn't most wiring underground now instead of power lines? I don't know if it will work or not but the last safe place I have to sleep is putting up a cell tower so I am out of options.

Greenbank may be my only chance. I was thinking a basement home but I am so sensitive I just don't know and we don't live in a valley or a remote area.

Loni

--- On Fri, 12/2/11, urbanpinetrees3 <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: urbanpinetrees3 <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Friday, December 2, 2011, 5:31 AM

I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires. Telephone wires too.

K
- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth thode

RE: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

In reply to this post by BiBrun

I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are saying is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to electrical fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older wiring, or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not (in my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we all know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring, which was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and older houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was designed to handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet another source of electrical pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water pipes (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of the above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power lines/substations/ect.
Here's another picture of reality. In just the past year, go back and count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different states, how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that occurred with no bad weather!
Lizzie

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
>
> Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is going
> to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
> just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
> unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
> quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
> much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency). I've
> never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM radio
> will sure buzz...
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes folks. This is true.
> > Lizzie
> > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
> > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> >
> > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings (60
> > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency harmonics
> > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The exponential
> > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and computer
> > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these harmonics
> > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry more
> > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
> > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
> > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can come
> > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for the
> > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency energy in
> > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
> > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to an RF
> > pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
> > energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
> > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like variable
> > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz sine
> > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the wiring.
> > Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to
> > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
> > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs
> > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the wiring,
> > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
> > residence or building.
> > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where the
> > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT have
> > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart meter
> > is installed.
> >
> >
> >
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
> > Telephone wires too.
> >
> > K
> > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply loads
> > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Loni,
> > > >
> > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring &
> > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > >
> > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
> > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
> > ceiling
> > > > places you can locate.
> > > >
> > > > I tested
> > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on
> > > > our wring.
> > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
> > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > >
> > > > Kathy
> > > >
> > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
> > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your
> > home?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

BiBrun

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an internal
defect.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are saying
> is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to electrical
> fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older wiring,
> or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is
> vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from
> smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not (in
> my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and
> antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just
> smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we all
> know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring, which
> was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid
> transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and older
> houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was designed to
> handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet another source of electrical
> pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty
> electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the
> house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water pipes
> (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for
> disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of the
> above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these
> factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even
> factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power lines/substations/ect.
> Here's another picture of reality. In just the past year, go back and
> count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different states,
> how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these
> outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather
> patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that
> occurred with no bad weather!
> Lizzie
>
>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> >
> > Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is
> going
> > to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> > (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
> > just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
> > unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
> > quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
> > much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency).
> I've
> > never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM
> radio
> > will sure buzz...
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yes folks. This is true.
> > > Lizzie
> > > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
> > > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> > >
> > > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings
> (60
> > > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency
> harmonics
> > > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The
> exponential
> > > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and
> computer
> > > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these
> harmonics
> > > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry
> more
> > > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
> > > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
> > > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can
> come
> > > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for
> the
> > > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency
> energy in
> > > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
> > > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to
> an RF
> > > pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
> > > energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
> > > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like
> variable
> > > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz
> sine
> > > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the
> wiring.
> > > Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to
> > > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
> > > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs
> > > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the
> wiring,
> > > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
> > > residence or building.
> > > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where
> the
> > > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT
> have
> > > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart
> meter
> > > is installed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
> > > Telephone wires too.
> > >
> > > K
> > > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> > > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply
> loads
> > > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Loni,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground
> wiring &
> > > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > > >
> > > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to
> have
> > > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
> > > ceiling
> > > > > places you can locate.
> > > > >
> > > > > I tested
> > > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi
> is on
> > > > > our wring.
> > > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our
> free
> > > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kathy
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell
> radiation?
> > > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in
> your
> > > home?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Elizabeth thode

RE: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

Get yourself a cup of tea and settle in for some reading.
This isn't all of it, but it gives some pretty damn convincing evidence.
Especially the story from the fireman's own house!
I had a RF water meter installed..it was on my house for 42 hrs. After I had
the city remove it, it took 3 DAYS for my wiring to calm down! I was still getting
RF readings AFTER they took it off.
I found two other reports from MI, of cases where they lost appliances- due to
smart meters. Good thing I copied them...went back a week later and these
reports WERE GONE! Same thing with several other articles I found. I did copy
them, and days later, THEY WERE ALSO GONE! The point is, just because you can't
find it, does NOT mean this stuff isn't happening everywhere.
The one from firefighter nation? There were 3 post on there back in May, that said firefighters
were looking for info on fires from smartmeters. I didn't do a thorough check but it doesn't look
like they are still on there. **And think about this: the smart meters on fire is an obvious one. But
how many house fires have there been, where the fire started away from the meter, due to
older wiring? Who would have known to connect the dots?
Happy reading
Lizzie

Fire investigators probe link between smart meters and house fires ...

my.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:6080253
Smart Meter Fires and Explosions | EMF Safety Network

emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1280

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:06:20 -0700
> Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
>
> I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
> possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
> on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
> right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an internal
> defect.
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are saying
> > is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to electrical
> > fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older wiring,
> > or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is
> > vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from
> > smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not (in
> > my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and
> > antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just
> > smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we all
> > know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring, which
> > was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid
> > transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and older
> > houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was designed to
> > handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet another source of electrical
> > pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty
> > electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the
> > house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water pipes
> > (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for
> > disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of the
> > above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these
> > factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even
> > factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power lines/substations/ect.
> > Here's another picture of reality. In just the past year, go back and
> > count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different states,
> > how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these
> > outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather
> > patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that
> > occurred with no bad weather!
> > Lizzie
> >
> >
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> > >
> > > Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is
> > going
> > > to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> > > (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
> > > just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
> > > unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
> > > quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
> > > much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency).
> > I've
> > > never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM
> > radio
> > > will sure buzz...
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes folks. This is true.
> > > > Lizzie
> > > > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
> > > > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> > > >
> > > > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings
> > (60
> > > > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency
> > harmonics
> > > > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The
> > exponential
> > > > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and
> > computer
> > > > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these
> > harmonics
> > > > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > > > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry
> > more
> > > > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > > > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
> > > > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
> > > > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can
> > come
> > > > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for
> > the
> > > > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency
> > energy in
> > > > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
> > > > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts to
> > an RF
> > > > pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
> > > > energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > > > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
> > > > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like
> > variable
> > > > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz
> > sine
> > > > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the
> > wiring.
> > > > Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical system to
> > > > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
> > > > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it boomerangs
> > > > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the
> > wiring,
> > > > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
> > > > residence or building.
> > > > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where
> > the
> > > > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT
> > have
> > > > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart
> > meter
> > > > is installed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > > > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
> > > > Telephone wires too.
> > > >
> > > > K
> > > > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> > > > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply
> > loads
> > > > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loni,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground
> > wiring &
> > > > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to
> > have
> > > > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
> > > > ceiling
> > > > > > places you can locate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tested
> > > > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi
> > is on
> > > > > > our wring.
> > > > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our
> > free
> > > > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kathy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell
> > radiation?
> > > > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in
> > your
> > > > home?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

KathyB

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON WIRING

In reply to this post by BiBrun

We had to wait at stop llght next to an electric transformer. The readings were pulsing all over the place. From 350 to 100 something, & back down to .009 mw/m2 This transformer was at a corner not far from several towers.

I need to avoid that hole stretch of road. For 1/2 mile it was in the 200 & 300's.

I assume this transformer was giving off RF. It was radiating because of broadband or the towers?

Kathy

<[hidden email]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an internal
defect.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

evie15422

Re: a rant about "the new reality", (formerly RF DOES PIGGYBACK....)

In reply to this post by Elizabeth thode

Hi, Lizzie,

<In just the past year, go back and count HOW many power outages have
occurred, in all the different states, how many millions were without
power, and for how long some of these outages have lasted?>

In our new neighborhood, the power goes off about once/ day--only minutes each time usually, but nearly DAILY! Also, the phones experience outages--I never even heard of that happening before. The neighbor across the street can not phone either me or the neighbor to her right. For whatever reason, she says she never gets thru. This has been going on for months off and on. For over a week, I could also not call out (at all) at one point. And at our old house, once we went over to digital from analog, we experience outages of reception multiple times nightly--for seconds to minutes--either in picture or voice reception. This also was something which never happened before. Prior, the only time reception went out was during hurricane force winds. So much for "progress", eh?

I long for the good old days. Today, it looks like an all out push to destroy planet Earth. Here's another picture of
reality:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/06/percy-schmeiser-farmer-who-beat-monsanto.aspx?e_cid=20111130_DNL_art_A4

Diane

________________________________
From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are saying is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to electrical fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older wiring, or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not (in my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we all know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring, which was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and older houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was designed to handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet
another source of electrical pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water pipes (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of the above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power lines/substations/ect.
In just the past year, go back and count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different states, how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that occurred with no bad weather!
Lizzie

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
>
> Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is going
> to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher harmonics
> just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is insignificant
> unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can go
> quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's too
> much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency). I've
> never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM radio
> will sure buzz...
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes folks. This is true.
> > Lizzie
> > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel, EMF
> > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> >
> > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to buildings (60
> > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency harmonics
> > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The exponential
> > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and computer
> > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these harmonics
> > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry more
> > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical wiring
> > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that radio
> > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that can come
> > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry for the
> > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency energy in
> > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential problem.
> > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this – what amounts to an RF
> > pollutant – on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater the
> > energy contained. It’s not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from computers,
> > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like variable
> > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60 hertz sine
> > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto the wiring.
> > Wireless smart meters don’t intentionally use the electrical system to
> > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage, etc).
> > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter… it boomerangs
> > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the wiring,
> > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts of the
> > residence or building.
> > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat where the
> > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does NOT have
> > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the smart meter
> > is installed.
> >
> >
> >
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires.
> > Telephone wires too.
> >
> > K
> > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though it
> > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power supply loads
> > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Loni,
> > > >
> > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground wiring &
> > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > >
> > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have to have
> > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire free
> > ceiling
> > > > places you can locate.
> > > >
> > > > I tested
> > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure wi-fi is on
> > > > our wring.
> > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in our free
> > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > >
> > > > Kathy
> > > >
> > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell radiation?
> > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in your
> > home?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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evie15422

Re: Basement Homes?

In reply to this post by Loni Rosser

Hi, Loni,

<Isn't most wiring underground now instead of power lines? I don't know
if it will work or not but the last safe place I have to sleep is
putting up a cell tower so I am out of options.>

In our area very few communities have underground power lines. However, we still have lots of ground currents going on. My basement is comfortable to me, but my husband (and other workers to our house) can receive cell calls there. I think, if I remember correctly, upstairs at our house phone reception is 4 bars and in the basement it is 2 bars on my husband's cell phone.

Far above and beyond emfs, tho, is most homes in our area have mold and radon (ours doesn't).

Good luck; I hope you find a suitable place to stay,

Diane

________________________________
From: Loni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?

Isn't most wiring underground now instead of power lines? I don't know if it will work or not but the last safe place I have to sleep is putting up a cell tower so I am out of options.

Greenbank may be my only chance. I was thinking a basement home but I am so sensitive I just don't know and we don't live in a valley or a remote area.

Loni

--- On Fri, 12/2/11, urbanpinetrees3 <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: urbanpinetrees3 <[hidden email]>
Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
To: [hidden email]
Date: Friday, December 2, 2011, 5:31 AM

I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line wires. Telephone wires too.

K
- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Elizabeth thode

RE: a rant about "the new reality", (formerly RF DOES PIGGYBACK....)

In reply to this post by evie15422

Hi Diane,
I have a friend who lives in Flint, Mi. Flint is pretty big, not as big as Detroit, but fairly close. He lives in the industrial part of town....I kid you not, when he moved there, this past May, he lost power EVERY WEEK- for like 3 months straight- And not just when it stormed, either. And there have been untold power line transmission fires all over the country! And in most of those areas...THEY HAVE SMART METERS!! Yes, I copied ths info...cuz guess what? It's NO longer posted on the internet!
I have another friend who lives in New Jersey. HIs folks live in one of those senior settlements...like subdivisions on top of subdivisions...those idiot builders..instead of upgrading the Ele- THEY SIMPLY TURNED UP THE POWER. The ele fields are OFF the charts. The minute he drives in to the area...he can FEEL it! That same area is known for people getting shocked in their outdoor hottubs.....A few of them managed to sue. But how many didn't even know?
Do I think this is un common? I wish. I live in an old neighborhood...and there is so much stray current on the street!!! My daughter won't even go OUT there!
I make daggone sure to keep my dog's AWAY from the power poles, light poles, metal grates...ect! They can pee on trees! That's IT!
I've got them so well trained, they now WALK around the metal grates! I was walking my dogs down the lit't downtown area here in town one day and my one dog JUMPED.....
and then she seemed to tremble and I knew she'd gotten a SHOCK!
So am I suprised there's CURRENT in my water? NO! I haven't used my tap water in 3 mths and we are BETTER OFF hauling water!
There's my twin rant for the day!
Blessings and positve changes ARE COMING!
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 19:43:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [eSens] a rant about "the new reality", (formerly RF DOES PIGGYBACK....)

Hi, Lizzie,

<In just the past year, go back and count HOW many power outages have
occurred, in all the different states, how many millions were without
power, and for how long some of these outages have lasted?>

In our new neighborhood, the power goes off about once/ day--only minutes each time usually, but nearly DAILY! Also, the phones experience outages--I never even heard of that happening before. The neighbor across the street can not phone either me or the neighbor to her right. For whatever reason, she says she never gets thru. This has been going on for months off and on. For over a week, I could also not call out (at all) at one point. And at our old house, once we went over to digital from analog, we experience outages of reception multiple times nightly--for seconds to minutes--either in picture or voice reception. This also was something which never happened before. Prior, the only time reception went out was during hurricane force winds. So much for "progress", eh?

I long for the good old days. Today, it looks like an all out push to destroy planet Earth. Here's another picture of
reality:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/06/percy-schmeiser-farmer-who-beat-monsanto.aspx?e_cid=20111130_DNL_art_A4

Diane

________________________________
From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are saying is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to electrical fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older wiring, or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not (in my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we all know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring, which was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and older houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was designed to handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet
another source of electrical pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water pipes (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of the above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power lines/substations/ect.
In just the past year, go back and count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different states, how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that occurred with no bad weather!
Lizzie

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BiBrun

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON WIRING

In reply to this post by KathyB

My guess is there's an antenna there. They can put out RF
but unless your meter goes down to 10MHz or less it's
probably not the transformer. Although a pulse from a large
load switching on and off could show up on some RF meters.

In any case, close to a big transformer can be bad.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> We had to wait at stop llght next to an electric transformer. The
> readings were pulsing all over the place. From 350 to 100 something, & back
> down to .009 mw/m2 This transformer was at a corner not far from several
> towers.
>
> I need to avoid that hole stretch of road. For 1/2 mile it was in the
> 200 & 300's.
>
> I assume this transformer was giving off RF. It was radiating because of
> broadband or the towers?
>
> Kathy
>
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
>
> I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
> possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
> on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
> right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an internal
> defect.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

BiBrun

Re: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

In reply to this post by Elizabeth thode

Yes there are a lot of fires. But I don't count hundreds.
We need to keep our credibility and not say things that are not true.
Every fire I read about seems to have happened in the meter housing,
probably because of corroded contacts or improper installation. Yes some
TVs went bad, but if you have arcing in the meter box you're getting
tremendous surges and harmonics,
as well as RF. I don't see any evidence that a properly functioning meter
can do anything like that.

In fact it raises the question as to whether the people
who have reacted so badly to smart meters are actually reacting to arcing
at the meter connection. If anyone has been keeping track of these
problems, it should be noted how old the house was.

I should add that some meters have the capability of
the power company being able to disconnect your power remotely. This
strikes me as a potential source of problems including fires if that switch
(which must handle up to 200 amps) malfunctions.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Get yourself a cup of tea and settle in for some reading.
> This isn't all of it, but it gives some pretty damn convincing evidence.
> Especially the story from the fireman's own house!
> I had a RF water meter installed..it was on my house for 42 hrs. After I
> had
> the city remove it, it took 3 DAYS for my wiring to calm down! I was still
> getting
> RF readings AFTER they took it off.
> I found two other reports from MI, of cases where they lost appliances-
> due to
> smart meters. Good thing I copied them...went back a week later and these
> reports WERE GONE! Same thing with several other articles I found. I did
> copy
> them, and days later, THEY WERE ALSO GONE! The point is, just because you
> can't
> find it, does NOT mean this stuff isn't happening everywhere.
> The one from firefighter nation? There were 3 post on there back in May,
> that said firefighters
> were looking for info on fires from smartmeters. I didn't do a thorough
> check but it doesn't look
> like they are still on there. **And think about this: the smart meters on
> fire is an obvious one. But
> how many house fires have there been, where the fire started away from the
> meter, due to
> older wiring? Who would have known to connect the dots?
> Happy reading
> Lizzie
>
> Fire investigators probe link between smart meters and house fires ...
>
>
>
>
> my.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:6080253
> Smart Meter Fires and Explosions | EMF Safety Network
>
>
>
>
> emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1280
>
>
>
>
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:06:20 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> >
> > I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
> > possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
> > on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
> > right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an
> internal
> > defect.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are
> saying
> > > is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to
> electrical
> > > fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older
> wiring,
> > > or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is
> > > vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from
> > > smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not
> (in
> > > my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and
> > > antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just
> > > smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we
> all
> > > know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring,
> which
> > > was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid
> > > transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and
> older
> > > houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was
> designed to
> > > handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet another source of electrical
> > > pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty
> > > electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the
> > > house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water
> pipes
> > > (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for
> > > disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of
> the
> > > above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these
> > > factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even
> > > factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power
> lines/substations/ect.
> > > Here's another picture of reality. In just the past year, go back and
> > > count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different
> states,
> > > how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these
> > > outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather
> > > patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that
> > > occurred with no bad weather!
> > > Lizzie
> > >
> > >
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> > > >
> > > > Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is
> > > going
> > > > to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> > > > (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher
> harmonics
> > > > just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is
> insignificant
> > > > unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can
> go
> > > > quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's
> too
> > > > much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency).
> > > I've
> > > > never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM
> > > radio
> > > > will sure buzz...
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes folks. This is true.
> > > > > Lizzie
> > > > > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel,
> EMF
> > > > > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> > > > >
> > > > > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to
> buildings
> > > (60
> > > > > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency
> > > harmonics
> > > > > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The
> > > exponential
> > > > > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and
> > > computer
> > > > > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these
> > > harmonics
> > > > > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > > > > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry
> > > more
> > > > > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > > > > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical
> wiring
> > > > > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that
> radio
> > > > > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that
> can
> > > come
> > > > > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry
> for
> > > the
> > > > > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency
> > > energy in
> > > > > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential
> problem.
> > > > > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts
> to
> > > an RF
> > > > > pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater
> the
> > > > > energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > > > > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from
> computers,
> > > > > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like
> > > variable
> > > > > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60
> hertz
> > > sine
> > > > > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto
> the
> > > wiring.
> > > > > Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical
> system to
> > > > > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage,
> etc).
> > > > > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it
> boomerangs
> > > > > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the
> > > wiring,
> > > > > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts
> of the
> > > > > residence or building.
> > > > > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat
> where
> > > the
> > > > > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does
> NOT
> > > have
> > > > > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the
> smart
> > > meter
> > > > > is installed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > > > > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line
> wires.
> > > > > Telephone wires too.
> > > > >
> > > > > K
> > > > > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though
> it
> > > > > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > > > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power
> supply
> > > loads
> > > > > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > **
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Loni,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground
> > > wiring &
> > > > > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have
> to
> > > have
> > > > > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire
> free
> > > > > ceiling
> > > > > > > places you can locate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I tested
> > > > > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure
> wi-fi
> > > is on
> > > > > > > our wring.
> > > > > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in
> our
> > > free
> > > > > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kathy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell
> > > radiation?
> > > > > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in
> > > your
> > > > > home?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Elizabeth thode

RE: RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING

Yes, I have articles about the kill switch causing problems. I'll have to dig them up....
They call it the kill switch and I remember reading an expalanation
similiar to the one you gave. IF memory serves me right, there is a history
of problems with the kill switches also. There was a lawsuit.
And you have made an excellent point. I would venture
to say, that wiring errors are more common than NOT.
However, as the uility co's have lied and told people it was the law, when it smart
meters are not federally mandated; why should customers who have basically been
defrauded, be responsible for bringing their ele up to code? Or be forced to pay for
damages or be gunea pigs in this giant experiment...

And do you honestly
think utility co's are going to pay to fix all these ill wired houses?
Afterall, the point is NOT that people should already have safe wiring. The point is,
by this point, the utility co's have to realize why these fires are occurring.
In the end, it comes down to this: smart meters have been installed without customer
knowledge and consent. I mean look at this way. A person may not have been totally
healthy, then they were given a drug that killed them. The drug tipped the scales. IN this
case, the smart meters tipped the scales of what the wiring could handle.
By the way, did you work at Los Allamos?
Lizzie

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 18:41:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
>
> Yes there are a lot of fires. But I don't count hundreds.
> We need to keep our credibility and not say things that are not true.
> Every fire I read about seems to have happened in the meter housing,
> probably because of corroded contacts or improper installation. Yes some
> TVs went bad, but if you have arcing in the meter box you're getting
> tremendous surges and harmonics,
> as well as RF. I don't see any evidence that a properly functioning meter
> can do anything like that.
>
> In fact it raises the question as to whether the people
> who have reacted so badly to smart meters are actually reacting to arcing
> at the meter connection. If anyone has been keeping track of these
> problems, it should be noted how old the house was.
>
> I should add that some meters have the capability of
> the power company being able to disconnect your power remotely. This
> strikes me as a potential source of problems including fires if that switch
> (which must handle up to 200 amps) malfunctions.
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Get yourself a cup of tea and settle in for some reading.
> > This isn't all of it, but it gives some pretty damn convincing evidence.
> > Especially the story from the fireman's own house!
> > I had a RF water meter installed..it was on my house for 42 hrs. After I
> > had
> > the city remove it, it took 3 DAYS for my wiring to calm down! I was still
> > getting
> > RF readings AFTER they took it off.
> > I found two other reports from MI, of cases where they lost appliances-
> > due to
> > smart meters. Good thing I copied them...went back a week later and these
> > reports WERE GONE! Same thing with several other articles I found. I did
> > copy
> > them, and days later, THEY WERE ALSO GONE! The point is, just because you
> > can't
> > find it, does NOT mean this stuff isn't happening everywhere.
> > The one from firefighter nation? There were 3 post on there back in May,
> > that said firefighters
> > were looking for info on fires from smartmeters. I didn't do a thorough
> > check but it doesn't look
> > like they are still on there. **And think about this: the smart meters on
> > fire is an obvious one. But
> > how many house fires have there been, where the fire started away from the
> > meter, due to
> > older wiring? Who would have known to connect the dots?
> > Happy reading
> > Lizzie
> >
> > Fire investigators probe link between smart meters and house fires ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > my.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:6080253
> > Smart Meter Fires and Explosions | EMF Safety Network
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1280
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:06:20 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> > >
> > > I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
> > > possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
> > > on other fires if you can direct me to it. I could easily picture fires
> > > right at or near the meter if the meter has a bad connection or an
> > internal
> > > defect.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe what she and other engineers and electrical experts are
> > saying
> > > > is that RF can lead to arcing on the wiring, which can lead to
> > electrical
> > > > fires. Numbers are numbers...reality is, many houses contain older
> > wiring,
> > > > or wiring that is weakened. In that weakened state, the wiring is
> > > > vulnerable. There have been HUNDREDS of house fires reported from
> > > > smartmeters. An entire neighborhood set up with smartmeters would not
> > (in
> > > > my opinon) be an insignificant source of RF. The grid is old and
> > > > antiquidated. It was never updated to handle the RF from not just
> > > > smartmeters and their mesh system, but any wireless systems, which we
> > all
> > > > know are practically everywhere. Now add in normal household wiring,
> > which
> > > > was never intended for wifi/RF. Now you have: 1) antiquidated grid
> > > > transmission system. 2) older houses with older wiring. 3) Newer and
> > older
> > > > houses using tons more electrical appliances then the grid was
> > designed to
> > > > handle. 4) Broadband over powerlines, yet another source of electrical
> > > > pollution. 5) Any house connected to city water will also have dirty
> > > > electricity/stray voltage piggybacking on the water lines, entering the
> > > > house. 6) Many houses still have the electrical grounded to the water
> > pipes
> > > > (in Mich, this is now against code).......all in all....a recipe for
> > > > disaster. Your use of the word "insignificant" might apply to ONE of
> > the
> > > > above factors, but in reality, how many houses only have ONE of these
> > > > factors? And how many have three or four of them? *And I haven't even
> > > > factored in the conditions of the utility poles/power
> > lines/substations/ect.
> > > > Here's another picture of reality. In just the past year, go back and
> > > > count HOW many power outages have occurred, in all the different
> > states,
> > > > how many millions were without power, and for how long some of these
> > > > outages have lasted? True enough, we can't ignore the bizarre weather
> > > > patterns. However, the shear amt of powerline transmisiion fires that
> > > > occurred with no bad weather!
> > > > Lizzie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:29:40 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] RF DOES PIGGYBACK ON HOUSE WIRING
> > > > >
> > > > > Is Cindy Sage saying the heating from the RF of dirty electricity is
> > > > going
> > > > > to cause house fires? That strikes me as absurd. Yes the 3rd harmonic
> > > > > (180 Hz) can be a problem for motors and such, and the higher
> > harmonics
> > > > > just contribute more, but the joule heating from the RF is
> > insignificant
> > > > > unless you have a serious broadcasting set up. At 1 MHz or so it can
> > go
> > > > > quite far on wiring, but by the time you get to 2.4 GHz, no. There's
> > too
> > > > > much inductance (which is proportional to loop area times frequency).
> > > > I've
> > > > > never noticed microwave readings being higher near wiring, but the AM
> > > > radio
> > > > > will sure buzz...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes folks. This is true.
> > > > > > Lizzie
> > > > > > Commentary by Cindy Sage, Sage Associates and James J. Biergiel,
> > EMF
> > > > > > Electrical Consultant July 2010
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Typical gauge electrical wiring that provides electricity to
> > buildings
> > > > (60
> > > > > > Hz power) is not constructed or intended to carry high frequency
> > > > harmonics
> > > > > > that are increasingly present on normal electrical wiring. The
> > > > exponential
> > > > > > increase in use of appliances, variable speed motors, office and
> > > > computer
> > > > > > equipment and wireless technologies has greatly increased these
> > > > harmonics
> > > > > > in community electrical grids and the buildings they serve with
> > > > > > electricity. Harmonics are higher frequencies than 60 Hz that carry
> > > > more
> > > > > > energy, and ride along on the electrical wiring in bursts. Radio
> > > > > > frequency (RF) is an unintentional by-product on this electrical
> > wiring
> > > > > > Electrical wiring it is not sized for the amount of energy that
> > radio
> > > > > > frequency and microwave radiation. These unintended signals that
> > can
> > > > come
> > > > > > from new wireless sources of many kinds are particularly a worry
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > new smart meters that produce very high intensity radio frequency
> > > > energy in
> > > > > > short bursts. Electrical fires are likely to be a potential
> > problem.
> > > > > > Electrical wiring was never intended to carry this what amounts
> > to
> > > > an RF
> > > > > > pollutant on the wiring. The higher the frequency, the greater
> > the
> > > > > > energy contained. Its not the voltage, but it is the current that
> > > > > > matters. RF harmonics on electrical systems can come from
> > computers,
> > > > > > printers, FAX machines, electronic ballasts and other sources like
> > > > variable
> > > > > > speed motors and appliances that distort the normal, smooth 60
> > hertz
> > > > sine
> > > > > > wave of electrical power and put bursts of higher energy RF onto
> > the
> > > > wiring.
> > > > > > Wireless smart meters dont intentionally use the electrical
> > system to
> > > > > > send their RF signal back to the utility (to report energy usage,
> > etc).
> > > > > > But, when the wireless signal is produced in the meter it
> > boomerangs
> > > > > > around on all the conductive components and can be coupled onto the
> > > > wiring,
> > > > > > water and gas lines, etc. where it can be carried to other parts
> > of the
> > > > > > residence or building.
> > > > > > It is an over-current condition on the wiring. It produces heat
> > where
> > > > the
> > > > > > neutral cannot properly handle it. The location of the fire does
> > NOT
> > > > have
> > > > > > to be in close proximity to the main electrical panel where the
> > smart
> > > > meter
> > > > > > is installed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > From: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:31:51 +0000
> > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Basement Homes?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do think that broadband is travelling on the wires. Maybe it is
> > > > > > induction as the cable wires are right next to the power line
> > wires.
> > > > > > Telephone wires too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > K
> > > > > > - In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wi-Fi won't go very far on wiring (probably a few inches, though
> > it
> > > > > > > could travel further in shielded wiring). Although the same pulse
> > > > > > > structure might appear in the dirtly electricity do to power
> > supply
> > > > loads
> > > > > > > pulsing with the microwaves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:37 AM, KathyB <calicocat477@...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > **
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Loni,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think a basement would help IF one does not have underground
> > > > wiring &
> > > > > > > > radon & mold free. .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have one, it helps but I feel the underground wiring & have
> > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > > safer wiring that will run above your head. There will be wire
> > free
> > > > > > ceiling
> > > > > > > > places you can locate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I tested
> > > > > > > > w my cheaper meter at 1 Gauss on the floor. I'm pretty sure
> > wi-fi
> > > > is on
> > > > > > > > our wring.
> > > > > > > > I read .06 mw/m 2 RF at an outlet. We have from ..01 - .03 in
> > our
> > > > free
> > > > > > > > space *& live in a valley.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kathy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Loni <loni326@...>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Basement Homes?
> > > > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 11:28 AM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do you think a basement home would sheild some of the Cell
> > > > radiation?
> > > > > > > > Anyone have one that can advise?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does the cell antenna's rf ride in on your elecrtrical wires in
> > > > your
> > > > > > home?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks, Loni
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

C.a.b. Johnson

Re: Smart Meter Interference

In reply to this post by BiBrun

-- On Fri, 12/2/11, Bill Bruno <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had not heard about any fires attributed to smart meters (except the
possibility the San Bruno gas fire was related). I would like to see info
on other fires if you can direct me to it.

Bill,

I am trying to find a testimonial I read about Smart Meter fires. In the meantime, check out this link:

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=6362

Maine utility admits smart meters cause interference

“Smart Meters are interfering with a wide range of household electronic devices, from garage door openers and WiFi devices to security systems.”

On Central Maine Power’s FAQ, in answer to the question: “Will the smart meter interfere with my other household appliances such as computer routers, television signal, cordless phones, etc.?” they respond: “Separating interfering devices usually reduces interference, so make sure the wireless device is located as far from the smart meter as possible. Also, adjust the position of the antenna on the device, if possible, and move the wireless device away from any walls that may absorb the signal.”

According to the FCC Electronic Code of Federal Regulations: the meters are not supposed to cause interference, and if they do the FCC states,

“The operator of a radio frequency device shall be required to cease operating the device upon notification by a Commission representative that the device is causing harmful interference.”

Anyone experiencing interference please file a complaint with the FCC!

C. Johnson
Wireless Refugee
[hidden email]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]