Dear All,
Some of you will be aware of the difficulties we've been having finding a home which isn't iradiated by mobile phone masts, and the new police radio system TETRA. Well I got a mention in an article in The West Highland Free Press, a respected newspaper which covers most of the west coast of Scotland. Regards, Chris Article text:- Health controversy grows as spread of telecoms masts continues apace. West Highland Free Press Newspaper http://www.whfp.com/ <http://www.whfp.com/> Friday, 24th February, 2005. MICHAEL RUSSELL on the debate over the proliferation of the TETRA microwave communication system, due to go live in Skye and Lochalsh next week Chris Butterfield suffers from a rare condition called electro-sensitivity. Put simply, the Fife-based photographer is allergic to mobile phone technology, specifically the microwave signals which let the rest of us talk, text and cook. As allergies go, this is about as bad as it gets. Skin rashes, headaches, disorientation and nosebleeds are what 30-year-old Chris has to con tend with whenever he passes a base station mast, or when someone nearby by uses the latest whizzbang 3G phone. It all makes for a very un comfortable and difficult life. A trip to the shops or a walk in the country can suddenly turn into a very painful experience. Naturally his mother, Liz, wants to help. Last month she visited the offices of the Free Press to place an advert seeking accommodation on Skye. "There are wide open spaces in the Highlands where there are no masts," she explained. "Chris is looking for somewhere he can live without being afraid to go for a drive or a walk." Fife to Skye is a long drive, es pecially for someone who herself suffers from ME. Evidently a son's health is more important than a mother's discomfort. She spent a few days house-hunting, placed the advert, then went back to Leven to wait for the good news. What she got, however, was bad news. Now she and Chris will be staying put, at least for the time being. The Highlands and Islands, it transpires, are no longer the safe haven sought by mother and son. They know what to blame for that. As of this month, Northern Constabulary started switching on its new "Airwave" system of microwave communication, promising police officers unprecedented access to data, encrypted security and inter-force capability. Activating a vast network of Airwave antennae across Northern Constabulary's eight area commands means a lot more masts, and a lot more radiation, for people like Chris Butterfield to dodge. The roll-out started in Lochaber at the beginning of this month, and is due to end when Skye and Lochalsh "goes live" next week. According to Northern Constabulary, the whole Integrated Communiciation Development Programme - of which Airwave is the central element - has cost £4.5 million. Nationally, almost £3 billion of taxpayers' money has been spent to date on putting the basic Airwave system in place, so the Government is expecting big things from it. The rush to complete the national roll-out as soon as possible was driven by Gordon Brown's decision four years ago to sell all the police frequencies to an expectant mobile phone industry desperate to recoup the huge amounts spent on 3G technology. But many global players, both commercial and military, also want Airwave up and running because of its own intrinsic value. Already various upgrades and add-ons, many with future military applications, are coming on the market. American telecoms giant Motorola - which dominates the UK Airwave market - launched the next generation of masts just three months ago. Arms giants Thales, EADS and Northrop Grumman also offer Airwave products and services. Inevitably, the cost is bound to increase over the course of the 15-year contract. This is a world-first, after all. Over the last five years around 3,500 Airwave antennae, most of them site-sharing with other operators and thus free from the usual planning constraints, have been put up nationwide. Northern Constabulary Chief Constable Ian Latimer initially said the force needed 287 Airwave sites to cover the Highlands and Islands. That figure now stands at 150, raising concerns about how full coverage can be achieved with fewer masts. All the UK's 51 police forces are committed to Airwave, and this makes thousands of electro-sensitives like Chris nervous. They are not alone. Since the system was piloted in Lancashire in 2000, there has been a steady stream of complaints from both users (police officers) and communities near to transmitters. Violent reactions like those experienced by Chris Butterfield have occurred in people not known as electrosensitive. What is it about Airwave that might affect ordinary people in this way? And are its effects being ignored - or worse, covered up - by the industry? The health controversy centres on two aspects of the system - the alleged pulsing of the microwave signals from Airwave police handsets and base stations, and the fact that base station transmitters are on full power 24/7. Ordinary mobile phone masts, by contrast, respond to demand, adjusting their power output accordingly. Airwave is the light and fluffy brand name chosen for this technology by mobile company 02, which was formerly part of BT. The system is more accurately known as TErrestrial Trunked RAdio - TETRA. During the Lancashire pilot study, 177 police officers complained of the same symptoms described by Chris Butterfield. Behavioural and emotional changes were also noted. Such was the concern within the police service at the time that the Police Federation commissioned Government microwave expert Barrie Trower to investigate the technology. His findings were shocking. "Since the system was piloted in Lancashire in 2000, there has been a steady stream of complaints from users and from communities near to transmitters" Microwaves from the UK's 40,000 mobile phone masts are bad news. Pulsed microwaves from TETRA are even worse. Mr Trower said both interfere with the electrical processes within the body and, depending on their frequency, can produce very specific effects and will even degrade immune systems in the long term. The 17.6 Hz frequency used by TETRA is especially significant: that is slap bang in the middle of the 15-20 Hz range which characterises the brain's electrical activity when engaged in complex mental tasks. Referred to in neuroscience as Beta Waves, this frequency range is also evident during the dream-state of sleep, which sufferers say is disrupted because of TETRA. Strobe lights are banned from flashing at this rate for this very reason, in case they induce an epileptic fit. When he was head of the Independent Expert Group on Mobile Phones, Sir William Stewart, now chairman of the Health Protection Agency and formerly chairman of the National Radiological Protection Board, warned in 2000 that this frequency should be avoided. The Group noted that there "is now scientific evidence which suggests that there may be biological effects" occurring at exposure levels below official limits for microwaves from mobile phone (known in the industry as GSM) technology. Children under eight, said Sir William, should never use a mobile phone at all as they have thinner skulls than adults and their nervous systems are still developing. As a result of the IEGMP's findings, microwave emissions from mobile phone masts and TETRA transmitters now have to stick to stringent international limits, which came into force in the UK in 2004. In an effort to allay public fears, the NRPB told the telecoms regulator OFCOM in 2004 to put all emissions data from GSM and TETRA base stations on their website. So far, only four masts in Scotland have been listed on Of corn's Sitefinder facility. None of the four is north of Falkirk, and no TETRA masts are included. OFCOM spokesman Simon Bates told me that the Home Office had prevented the publication of any TETRA readings on security grounds. Verifying industry claims that TETRA complies with official microwave limits is therefore impossible. But crucially for Mr Trower, and a growing body of expert opinion, those offical limits - enforced by the International Commission on Non-Ionising Radiation Protection - are badly flawed because they only cover the body heating effects of the radiation. Since the Stewart Report of 2000, IEGMP consultees Dr Gerald Hyland and Dr Roger Coghill have published several papers which suggest, in common with Mr Trower, that key frequencies emitted by TETRA and mobile phone masts produce specific effects for entirely different reasons. In a paper prepared for the European Parliament, Dr Hyland wrote: "Unlike the heating effect exposure to microwaves which can, if excessive, cause actual material damage, non-thermal influences act in a more subtle way, via their potentiality to interfere with biological functionality - in particular, it would appear, with bioprocesses which are intended to afford (natural) protection against adverse health effects of various kinds." The industry, including its paid reseachers and political advocates, is unmoved. Recognising non-thermal effects, despite Sir William Stewart's admission, is still some way off. In fact, the official line is that TETRA signals from base stations do not pulse. This assertion, say the Scottish Green Party, is a "hair-splitting" argument which averages out the signal over a set time period. Messrs Trower, Hyland and Coghill say the same. However, 02 do admit that the police handsets and car-mounted antennae do pulse. Makers of rival system TETRAPOL, which is used by the emergency services across Europe, say that UK TETRA base stations do pulse, though you might expect the competition to say that. SEEKING some kind of clarity, I spoke to a man who should be able to give a definitive answer to the pulsing question. Dr Michael Clark is a leading radiation expert who works for the Health Protection Agency, the body which absorbed Sir William Stewart's NRPB in April of last year. The HP A acknowledge that TETRA is different from other microwave technologies. But how different? Does it pulse? According to Dr Clark, any electrical signal has to drop to zero to qualify as pulsed. "That is the offical definition that has been recognised for 30 years," he explained. "However, the TETRA signal does rise and fall at specific frequencies." Could this rising and falling produce a biological effect? "That cannot be ruled out," he replied. Dr Clark also acknowledged that all the current research being conducted by the Home Office was focused on the handsets and car-mounted antennae used by police officers. Not a single health study has been conducted on communities near any of the 3,500 TETRA sites in the UK. "We do need more research in this area," Dr Clark observed. Such a move would certainly be welcomed by concerned residents across the UK. Groups from as far afield as Bognor Regis and Perthshire have reported the same symptoms as those felt by Chris Butterfield. And very few of them qualify as electro-sensitives. Arthur Jarrett, an anti-TETRA activist from Wormit in Fife - where councillors refused 02 planning permission for a TETRA mast last year - said more and more ordinary people were reporting microwave symptoms because the technology had changed so rapidly in such a short space of time. The proliferation of masts and phones (the latter increasing in number tenfold in the UK between 1995 and 2005) and the advent of 3G meant, he said, that power outputs had increased considerably to give full coverage and to "do all the wonderful things" the industry promises. "TETRA is an added nuisance," Mr Jarret commented. For some it is more than a minor irritant. When a TETRA mast went live just a few hundred yards from Littlehamptom Primary School in Sussex in 2004,11 children were sent home with headaches and nosebleeds. Originally from Ness in Lewis, Graham Morrison now stays in Partick, Glasgow, and last week chaired a public meeting in the local baptist church. "It was the cheapest venue we could afford," he said. There's nothing funny about his microwave symptoms, or those of around 50 fellow sufferers who stay in just two streets in Thornwood. "It started about a year ago with headaches, tiredness and muscular pains," Mr Morrison added. "The doctors couldn't find anything wrong, but the problems persisted. Then others came forward with the same symptoms." According to Mr Morrison, all the Thornwood sufferers began reporting microwave symptoms at the same time as two masts, 3G and TETRA, were put up in the area. "There are now 15 masts in the Partick area," he added. "The worst affected are those who live in the cross-lines between the 3G and TETRA masts. "People here are getting angry because they feel they are being ignored. Everyone wants to know why the authorities won't recognise what's going on - why are they covering this up?" David Baron, who lives in Chichester, told me that five local police officers had complained of similar symptoms when using TETRA handsets there. "They have been told not to go anywhere near the press because they will lose their jobs," he added. Rural police users of TETRA, it seems, may have more to fear from the technology than their urban counterparts. Home Office research conducted by the University of Birmingham in 2004 warned that PCs working night shift in rural areas should be given "special attention" as their usage of TETRA equipment is likely to be heavier in comparison to city police forces, where staffing levels are higher. These concerns were given added weight by a study conducted by Sweden's University Hospital last year which found that the risk of developing a brain tumour was six times higher among mobile phone users in rural areas than in cities. The reason stated by the authors was the greater distance between base stations in rural areas, and thus the higher power output of masts to achieve full coverage. The University of Birmingham report, entitled "Airwave Patterns of Use Study", also warns that microwave exposure levels for the general public could exceed official ICNIRP limits if a person's head were within a "few centimetres" of a police car's antenna. However, the report then goes on to state that no data on microwave emissions was forthcoming from the only manufacturers of the car-mounted antennae chosen to take part in the study, Welsh firm Cleartone. Other police health studies, such as the long-term project being conducted by Imperial College London, bemoan the difficulty in obtaining accurate call-duration records from 02 so that exposure can be measured. The latest ICL study also found that linking an individual TETRA user's subscriber number with a PC's collar ID was an "immediate concern" and far from staightforward. LOCHCARRON councillor Ewen Mackinnon, who has served on the Northern Joint Police Board for several years, acknowledged there did seem to be a degree of uncertainty with regard to the health effects of TETRA on both users and the public. However, the board's main concern had been the financial implications of the new system, he said. Indeed, he told me last week that members were still awaiting clarification from the Scottish Executive about fully funding Airwave through Grant Aided Expenditure. As the council tax accounts for 20 per cent Northern Constabulary's total budget, Mr Mackinnon wanted assurances that the cost of Airwave -the jewel in the crown of the force's Integrated Communications Development Programme - would not be passed on to taxpayers. This, he said, was especially significant in the Highlands and Islands as the basic TETRA package cannot give full coverage over our mountainous terrain. Northern Constabulary say that 98 per cent of the funding for ICDP has come from the executive in the GAE settlement. Mr Mackinnon added: "Northern Constabulary had no option about taking Airwave. The Scottish Executive forced them and said 'this is what's going to happen'." This view is reinforced by a look at the minutes of the Northern Police Board. On 25th January 2002, the minutes noted: "A contract for central procurement had been offered to this force, among others, through a Consortium, inviting Forces to commit to its terms by 26th February 2002. "The chief constable was currently seeking legal advice, sight of the contract documents and advice from the Scottish Executive on the financial implications of the proposed contract before making a recommendation to Members on the proposed procurement arrangement." But at the next Board meeting on 11th April the deal was done and dusted, without members getting a look at the documents or getting to meet Justice Minister Jim Wallace - a move agreed at the meeting of 25th January. Board members had been given one month to consider taking Airwave before the 26th February deadline, but were given no contract information and no costings on which to base their conclusions. The minutes of 11th April make it clear that only the Chief Constable had access to any kind of detailed information in the interim, which included a meeting with the Scottish Executive. Was he given no choice, as Mr Mackinnon maintained, but to accept TETRA at this meeting? This leads on to another question: who is pushing TETRA so hard, and why? TO BE CONCLUDED [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Way to stay in there, Chris.
Andrew On Feb 26, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Chris wrote: > Dear All, > > Some of you will be aware of the difficulties we've been having > finding > a > home which isn't iradiated by mobile phone masts, and the new police > radio > system TETRA. Well I got a mention in an article in The West Highland > Free > Press, a respected newspaper which covers most of the west coast of > Scotland. > > Regards, > > Chris > > Article text:- > > Health controversy grows as spread of telecoms masts continues apace. > West Highland Free Press Newspaper > http://www.whfp.com/ <http://www.whfp.com/> > Friday, 24th February, 2005. > > MICHAEL RUSSELL on the debate over the proliferation of the TETRA > microwave > communication system, due to go live in Skye and Lochalsh next week > > Chris Butterfield suffers from a rare condition called > electro-sensitivity. > Put simply, the Fife-based photographer is allergic to mobile phone > technology, specifically the microwave signals which let the rest of > us > talk, text and cook. > > As allergies go, this is about as bad as it gets. Skin rashes, > headaches, > disorientation and nosebleeds are what 30-year-old Chris has to con > tend > with whenever he passes a base station mast, or when someone nearby by > uses > the latest whizzbang 3G phone. It all makes for a very un comfortable > and > difficult life. A trip to the shops or a walk in the country can > suddenly > turn into a very painful experience. > > Naturally his mother, Liz, wants to help. Last month she visited the > offices > of the Free Press to place an advert seeking accommodation on Skye. > "There > are wide open spaces in the Highlands where there are no masts," she > explained. "Chris is looking for somewhere he can live without being > afraid > to go for a drive or a walk." > > Fife to Skye is a long drive, es pecially for someone who herself > suffers > from ME. Evidently a son's health is more important than a mother's > discomfort. She spent a few days house-hunting, placed the advert, > then > went > back to Leven to wait for the good news. > > What she got, however, was bad news. Now she and Chris will be staying > put, > at least for the time being. The Highlands and Islands, it transpires, > are > no longer the safe haven sought by mother and son. They know what to > blame > for that. > > As of this month, Northern Constabulary started switching on its new > "Airwave" system of microwave communication, promising police officers > unprecedented access to data, encrypted security and inter-force > capability. > > Activating a vast network of Airwave antennae across Northern > Constabulary's > eight area commands means a lot more masts, and a lot more radiation, > for > people like Chris Butterfield to dodge. The roll-out started in > Lochaber at > the beginning of this month, and is due to end when Skye and Lochalsh > "goes > live" next week. > > According to Northern Constabulary, the whole Integrated > Communiciation > Development Programme - of which Airwave is the central element - has > cost > £4.5 million. Nationally, almost £3 billion of taxpayers' money > has been > spent to date on putting the basic Airwave system in place, so the > Government is expecting big things from it. The rush to complete the > national roll-out as soon as possible was driven by Gordon Brown's > decision > four years ago to sell all the police frequencies to an expectant > mobile > phone industry desperate to recoup the huge amounts spent on 3G > technology. > But many global players, both commercial and military, also want > Airwave up > and running because of its own intrinsic value. > > Already various upgrades and add-ons, many with future military > applications, are coming on the market. American telecoms giant > Motorola - > which dominates the UK Airwave market - launched the next generation > of > masts just three months ago. Arms giants Thales, EADS and Northrop > Grumman > also offer Airwave products and services. Inevitably, the cost is > bound > to > increase over the course of the 15-year contract. This is a > world-first, > after all. > > Over the last five years around 3,500 Airwave antennae, most of them > site-sharing with other operators and thus free from the usual > planning > constraints, have been put up nationwide. Northern Constabulary Chief > Constable Ian Latimer initially said the force needed 287 Airwave > sites > to > cover the Highlands and Islands. That figure now stands at 150, > raising > concerns about how full coverage can be achieved with fewer masts. All > the > UK's 51 police forces are committed to Airwave, and this makes > thousands of > electro-sensitives like Chris nervous. They are not alone. > > Since the system was piloted in Lancashire in 2000, there has been a > steady > stream of complaints from both users (police officers) and communities > near > to transmitters. Violent reactions like those experienced by Chris > Butterfield have occurred in people not known as electrosensitive. > What > is > it about Airwave that might affect ordinary people in this way? And > are > its > effects being ignored - or worse, covered up - by the industry? > > The health controversy centres on two aspects of the system - the > alleged > pulsing of the microwave signals from Airwave police handsets > > and base stations, and the fact that base station transmitters are on > full > power 24/7. Ordinary mobile phone masts, by contrast, respond to > demand, > adjusting their power output accordingly. > > Airwave is the light and fluffy brand name chosen for this technology > by > mobile company 02, which was formerly part of BT. The system is more > accurately known as TErrestrial Trunked RAdio - TETRA. > > During the Lancashire pilot study, 177 police officers complained of > the > same symptoms described by Chris Butterfield. Behavioural and > emotional > changes were also noted. Such was the concern within the police > service > at > the time that the Police Federation commissioned > > Government microwave expert Barrie Trower to investigate the > technology. His > findings were shocking. > > "Since the system was piloted in Lancashire in 2000, there has been a > steady > stream of complaints from users and from > communities near to transmitters" > > Microwaves from the UK's 40,000 mobile phone masts are bad news. > Pulsed > microwaves from TETRA are even worse. Mr Trower said both interfere > with the > electrical processes within the body and, depending on their > frequency, > can > produce very specific effects and will even degrade immune systems in > the > long term. The 17.6 Hz frequency used by TETRA is especially > significant: > that is slap bang in the middle of the 15-20 Hz range which > characterises > the brain's electrical activity when engaged in complex mental tasks. > Referred to in neuroscience as Beta Waves, this frequency range is > also > evident during the dream-state of sleep, which sufferers say is > disrupted > because of TETRA. Strobe lights are banned from flashing at this rate > for > this very reason, in case they induce an epileptic fit. > > When he was head of the Independent Expert Group on Mobile Phones, Sir > William Stewart, now chairman of the Health > > Protection Agency and formerly chairman of the National Radiological > Protection Board, warned in 2000 that this frequency should be > avoided. > The > Group noted that there "is now scientific evidence which suggests that > there > may be biological effects" occurring at exposure levels below official > limits for microwaves from mobile phone (known in the industry as GSM) > technology. Children under eight, said Sir William, should never use a > mobile phone at all as they have thinner skulls than adults and their > nervous systems are still developing. > > As a result of the IEGMP's findings, microwave emissions from mobile > phone > masts and TETRA transmitters now have to stick to stringent > international > limits, which came into force in the UK in 2004. In an effort to allay > public fears, the NRPB told the telecoms regulator OFCOM in 2004 to > put > all > emissions data from GSM and TETRA base stations on their website. So > far, > only four masts in Scotland have been listed on Of corn's Sitefinder > facility. None of the four is north of Falkirk, and no TETRA masts are > included. > > OFCOM spokesman Simon Bates told me that the Home Office had prevented > the > publication of any TETRA readings on security grounds. Verifying > industry > claims that TETRA complies with official microwave limits is therefore > impossible. > > But crucially for Mr Trower, and a growing body of expert opinion, > those > offical limits - enforced by the International Commission on > Non-Ionising > Radiation Protection - are badly flawed because they only cover the > body > heating effects of the radiation. > > Since the Stewart Report of 2000, IEGMP consultees Dr Gerald Hyland > and > Dr > Roger Coghill have published several papers which suggest, in common > with Mr > Trower, that key frequencies emitted by TETRA and mobile phone masts > produce > specific effects for entirely different reasons. > > In a paper prepared for the European Parliament, Dr Hyland wrote: > "Unlike > the heating effect exposure to microwaves which can, if excessive, > cause > actual material damage, non-thermal influences act in a more subtle > way, via > their potentiality to interfere with biological functionality - in > particular, it would appear, with bioprocesses which are intended to > afford > (natural) protection against adverse health effects of various kinds." > > The industry, including its paid reseachers and political advocates, > is > unmoved. Recognising non-thermal effects, despite Sir William > Stewart's > admission, is still some way off. In fact, the official line is that > TETRA > signals from base stations do not pulse. > > This assertion, say the Scottish Green Party, is a "hair-splitting" > argument > which averages out the signal over a set time period. Messrs Trower, > Hyland > and Coghill say the same. However, 02 do admit that the police > handsets > and > car-mounted antennae do pulse. Makers of rival system TETRAPOL, which > is > used by the emergency services across Europe, say that UK TETRA base > stations do pulse, though you might expect the competition to say > that. > > SEEKING some kind of clarity, I spoke to a man who should be able to > give a > definitive answer to the pulsing question. > > Dr Michael Clark is a leading radiation expert who works for the > Health > Protection Agency, the body which absorbed Sir William Stewart's NRPB > in > April of last year. The HP A acknowledge that TETRA is different from > other > microwave technologies. But how different? Does it pulse? > > According to Dr Clark, any electrical signal has to drop to zero to > qualify > as pulsed. "That is the offical definition that has been recognised > for > 30 > years," he explained. "However, the TETRA signal does rise and fall at > specific frequencies." > > Could this rising and falling produce a biological effect? "That > cannot > be > ruled out," he replied. > > Dr Clark also acknowledged that all the current research being > conducted by > the Home Office was focused on the handsets and car-mounted antennae > used by > police officers. Not a single health study has been conducted on > communities > near any of the 3,500 TETRA sites in the UK. "We do need more research > in > this area," Dr Clark observed. > > Such a move would certainly be welcomed by concerned residents across > the > UK. Groups from as far afield as Bognor Regis and Perthshire have > reported > the same symptoms as those felt by Chris Butterfield. And very few of > them > qualify as electro-sensitives. > > Arthur Jarrett, an anti-TETRA activist from Wormit in Fife - where > councillors refused 02 planning permission for a TETRA mast last year > - > said > more and more ordinary people were reporting microwave symptoms > because > the > technology had changed so rapidly in such a short space of time. The > proliferation of masts and phones (the latter increasing in number > tenfold > in the UK between 1995 and 2005) and the advent of 3G meant, he said, > that > power outputs had increased considerably to give full coverage and to > "do > all the wonderful things" the industry promises. "TETRA is an added > nuisance," Mr Jarret commented. > > For some it is more than a minor irritant. When a TETRA mast went live > just > a few hundred yards from Littlehamptom Primary School in Sussex in > 2004,11 > children were sent home with headaches and nosebleeds. > > Originally from Ness in Lewis, Graham Morrison now stays in Partick, > Glasgow, and last week chaired a public meeting in the local baptist > church. > "It was the cheapest venue we could afford," he said. > > There's nothing funny about his microwave symptoms, or those of around > 50 > fellow sufferers who stay in just two streets in Thornwood. "It > started > about a year ago with headaches, tiredness and muscular pains," Mr > Morrison > added. "The doctors couldn't find anything wrong, but the problems > persisted. Then others came forward with the same symptoms." > > According to Mr Morrison, all the Thornwood sufferers began reporting > microwave symptoms at the same time as two masts, 3G and TETRA, were > put up > in the area. "There are now 15 masts in the Partick area," he added. > "The > worst affected are those who live in the cross-lines between the 3G > and > TETRA masts. > > "People here are getting angry because they feel they are being > ignored. > Everyone wants to know why the authorities won't recognise what's > going > on - > why are they covering this up?" > > David Baron, who lives in Chichester, told me that five local police > officers had complained of similar symptoms when using TETRA handsets > there. > "They have been told not to go anywhere near the press because they > will > lose their jobs," he added. > > Rural police users of TETRA, it seems, may have more to fear from the > technology than their urban counterparts. Home Office research > conducted by > the University of Birmingham in 2004 warned that PCs working night > shift in > rural areas should be given "special attention" as their usage of > TETRA > equipment is likely to be heavier in comparison to city police forces, > where > staffing levels are higher. > > These concerns were given added weight by a study conducted by > Sweden's > University Hospital last year which found that the risk of developing > a > brain tumour was six times higher among mobile phone users in rural > areas > than in cities. The reason stated by the authors was the greater > distance > between base stations in rural areas, and thus the higher power output > of > masts to achieve full coverage. > > The University of Birmingham report, entitled "Airwave Patterns of Use > Study", also warns that microwave exposure levels for the general > public > could exceed official ICNIRP limits if a person's head were within a > "few > centimetres" of a police car's antenna. However, the report then goes > on > to > state that no data on microwave emissions was forthcoming from the > only > manufacturers of the car-mounted antennae chosen to take part in the > study, > Welsh firm Cleartone. > > Other police health studies, such as the long-term project being > conducted > by Imperial College London, bemoan the difficulty in obtaining > accurate > call-duration records from 02 so that exposure can be measured. The > latest > ICL study also found that linking an individual TETRA user's > subscriber > number with a PC's collar ID was an "immediate concern" and far from > staightforward. > > LOCHCARRON councillor Ewen Mackinnon, who has served on the Northern > Joint > Police Board for several years, acknowledged there did seem to be a > degree > of uncertainty with regard to the health effects of TETRA on both > users > and > the public. However, the board's main concern had been the financial > implications of the new system, he said. Indeed, he told me last week > that > members were still awaiting clarification from the Scottish Executive > about > fully funding Airwave through Grant Aided Expenditure. > > As the council tax accounts for 20 per cent Northern Constabulary's > total > budget, Mr Mackinnon wanted assurances that the cost of Airwave -the > jewel > in the crown of the force's Integrated Communications Development > Programme - would not be passed on to taxpayers. This, he said, was > especially significant in the Highlands and Islands as the basic TETRA > package cannot give full coverage over our mountainous terrain. > > Northern Constabulary say that 98 per cent of the funding for ICDP has > come > from the executive in the GAE settlement. > > Mr Mackinnon added: "Northern Constabulary had no option about taking > Airwave. The Scottish Executive forced them and said 'this is what's > going > to happen'." > > This view is reinforced by a look at the minutes of the Northern > Police > Board. > > On 25th January 2002, the minutes noted: "A contract for central > procurement > had been offered to this force, among others, through a Consortium, > inviting > Forces to commit to its terms by 26th February 2002. > > "The chief constable was currently seeking legal advice, sight of the > contract documents and advice from the Scottish Executive on the > financial > implications of the proposed contract before making a recommendation > to > Members on the proposed procurement arrangement." > > But at the next Board meeting on 11th April the deal was done and > dusted, > without members getting a look at the documents or getting to meet > Justice > Minister Jim Wallace - a move agreed at the meeting of 25th January. > > Board members had been given one month to consider taking Airwave > before the > 26th February deadline, but were given no contract information and no > costings on which to base their conclusions. > > The minutes of 11th April make it clear that only the Chief Constable > had > access to any kind of detailed information in the interim, which > included a > meeting with the Scottish Executive. > > Was he given no choice, as Mr Mackinnon maintained, but to accept > TETRA > at > this meeting? > > This leads on to another question: who is pushing TETRA so hard, and > why? > > TO BE CONCLUDED > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > |
In reply to this post by Chris-2
They did a good job for a newspaper, from my own experience.
It's too bad they still consider it rare, since it's not anymore. Do post the follow up story if they do it, and you're able. ~ Snoshoe --- In [hidden email], "Chris" <avbook@...> wrote: > > Dear All, > > Some of you will be aware of the difficulties we've been having finding > a > home which isn't iradiated by mobile phone masts, and the new police > radio > system TETRA. Well I got a mention in an article in The West Highland > Free > Press, a respected newspaper which covers most of the west coast of > Scotland. > > Regards, > > Chris |
Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the
people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a little more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in the UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I felt very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and found there were other people like her. That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning signs - the tip of a huge future iceberg. The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in their FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition of the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But many of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn quite well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the "major social consequences" of this more general/severe type. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of snoshoe_2 Sent: 28 February 2006 06:00 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper They did a good job for a newspaper, from my own experience. It's too bad they still consider it rare, since it's not anymore. Do post the follow up story if they do it, and you're able. ~ Snoshoe --- In [hidden email], "Chris" <avbook@...> wrote: > > Dear All, > > Some of you will be aware of the difficulties we've been having finding > a > home which isn't iradiated by mobile phone masts, and the new police > radio > system TETRA. Well I got a mention in an article in The West Highland > Free > Press, a respected newspaper which covers most of the west coast of > Scotland. > > Regards, > > Chris SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Chris-2
Hi, Ian,
Ah, but how many people have problems without knowing??? I certainly did. If it had not been for joining this group, I would have had no idea that I was reacting to my DECT phone. I assumed it was safe, even tho I knew the cells were not. Now I know I react to particular frequencies when I am on the road in my car, as well. Never knew why I got headaches so often in my car (thought it was chemical sensitivity I was reacting to). Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a little more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in the UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I felt very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and found there were other people like her. That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning signs - the tip of a huge future iceberg. The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in their FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition of the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But many of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn quite well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the "major social consequences" of this more general/severe type. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of snoshoe_2 Sent: 28 February 2006 06:00 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper They did a good job for a newspaper, from my own experience. It's too bad they still consider it rare, since it's not anymore. Do post the follow up story if they do it, and you're able. ~ Snoshoe --- In [hidden email], "Chris" <avbook@...> wrote: > > Dear All, > > Some of you will be aware of the difficulties we've been having finding > a > home which isn't iradiated by mobile phone masts, and the new police > radio > system TETRA. Well I got a mention in an article in The West Highland > Free > Press, a respected newspaper which covers most of the west coast of > Scotland. > > Regards, > > Chris SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellness program Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Womens health and wellness --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Chris-2
Hello Ian,
I see it different. I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in a position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek my advice. My estimate is 10 % of the population. The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from elektrosmog. In Germany there are many *environmental physicians The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. The medical world is our greatest enemy. Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Antivirus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > little > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > the > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > felt > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > found there were other people like her. > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > signs > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > their > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > of > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > many > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > quite > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > "major > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > Ian > |
Hello Charles and Diane
Sure, lots of people will have these problems without realising it, so the frequency will be higher than the level of those who report it. The question is how much higher? That's what I'm trying to guess. The best I can say is that we have a very wide circle of friends, acquaintances and relatives, running to several hundred. None of them show the severe ES symptoms that Sue has. One or two have noticed effects which could well be linked to mild ES. The reaction of the remainder varies from sympathy and support to, in some cases, total disbelief. But since they know what we are going through, we are quite sure that they would have come forward if anything had "rung a bell", either with them or recognising it among their friends. So this suggests to me that we are talking of the order of 1% with any noticeable effects, and much fewer with severe ones - at the moment. On the other hand, we have met a good proportion of people at Breakspear Hospital who have ES or MCS symptoms. But this is a very self-selecting group, in that they are people who have illnesses severe enough to drive them to find a private hospital and spend considerable sums on treatment. Likewise it may be that the people who are interested enough to contact you, Charles, are the ones who are actually experiencing something. And only a small proportion of people regularly consult their doctors - only when they are ill. Therefore it seems to me that figures of 10% to 20% are rather high, unless we are talking about some very vague reaction to electrosmog which is at a very low level. Something that has been pointed out in the UK, when a group of ES suffers and supporters met recently, is that we need better definitions of ES, and particularly the different levels experienced. Maybe 3 broad levels: 1. Mild symptoms, usually not noticed or explained away as something else, not debilitating, often leading to no change in lifestyle. 2. Medium symptoms, noticeable and irritating such as skin rash, requiring reduction of regular exposure to electric fields, mobile phones, TV's etc. 3. Severe symptoms, giving major and painful reactions to many sources which are highly disruptive to lifestyle, e.g. inability to travel in modern cars, requiring avoidance of all electrosmog, needing to turn electric power off at night to sleep, bad reactions to fluorescent lights and mobile/cordless phones. Also often accompanied by sensitivity to chemicals, light and sound. I would be prepared to believe 10-20% of type 1, maybe even type 2 (though I don't think even FEB in Sweden has that high a proportion of members - about 0.1% of the population). But no way is type 3 anything more than very rare in the UK at present, and I suspect elsewhere in the world. The disruption to lifestyle is so great that it is highly noticeable in people experiencing it. Sue wears dark glasses and a hat in shops and sitting in the back of our specially procured 16-year-old car, and has to run away from people who turn on mobile phones. We can see hundreds and thousands of people around us locally who do not have to do this, and nobody else who does! Common sense shows that this is not a conspiracy or cover-up; it is a very small proportion of the population at the moment, such that the few people who do have Level 3 get major newspaper articles written about them because most people see it as so remarkable. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of charles Sent: 28 February 2006 22:36 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper Hello Ian, I see it different. I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in a position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek my advice. My estimate is 10 % of the population. The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from elektrosmog. In Germany there are many *environmental physicians The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. The medical world is our greatest enemy. Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Antivirus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > little > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > the > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > felt > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > found there were other people like her. > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > signs > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > their > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > of > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > many > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > quite > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > "major > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > Ian > SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Haha good one.
Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello Charles and Diane SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellness program Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Womens health and wellness --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi again, Ian,
I see what you are saying regarding your acquaintances not showing signs. I believe, too, that only those who are otherwise ill are probably going to experience the really severe symptoms. But I do think, as the blanketing of whole cities with Wimax and Wifi continue, that there will in time be ALOT more people having problems. I feel that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg with what is possible with these systems. And, too, all of this adds up. Look at how much has changed in just the last 20 years! My best to you and Sue, Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello Charles and Diane Sure, lots of people will have these problems without realising it, so the frequency will be higher than the level of those who report it. The question is how much higher? That's what I'm trying to guess. The best I can say is that we have a very wide circle of friends, acquaintances and relatives, running to several hundred. None of them show the severe ES symptoms that Sue has. One or two have noticed effects which could well be linked to mild ES. The reaction of the remainder varies from sympathy and support to, in some cases, total disbelief. But since they know what we are going through, we are quite sure that they would have come forward if anything had "rung a bell", either with them or recognising it among their friends. So this suggests to me that we are talking of the order of 1% with any noticeable effects, and much fewer with severe ones - at the moment. On the other hand, we have met a good proportion of people at Breakspear Hospital who have ES or MCS symptoms. But this is a very self-selecting group, in that they are people who have illnesses severe enough to drive them to find a private hospital and spend considerable sums on treatment. Likewise it may be that the people who are interested enough to contact you, Charles, are the ones who are actually experiencing something. And only a small proportion of people regularly consult their doctors - only when they are ill. Therefore it seems to me that figures of 10% to 20% are rather high, unless we are talking about some very vague reaction to electrosmog which is at a very low level. Something that has been pointed out in the UK, when a group of ES suffers and supporters met recently, is that we need better definitions of ES, and particularly the different levels experienced. Maybe 3 broad levels: 1. Mild symptoms, usually not noticed or explained away as something else, not debilitating, often leading to no change in lifestyle. 2. Medium symptoms, noticeable and irritating such as skin rash, requiring reduction of regular exposure to electric fields, mobile phones, TV's etc. 3. Severe symptoms, giving major and painful reactions to many sources which are highly disruptive to lifestyle, e.g. inability to travel in modern cars, requiring avoidance of all electrosmog, needing to turn electric power off at night to sleep, bad reactions to fluorescent lights and mobile/cordless phones. Also often accompanied by sensitivity to chemicals, light and sound. I would be prepared to believe 10-20% of type 1, maybe even type 2 (though I don't think even FEB in Sweden has that high a proportion of members - about 0.1% of the population). But no way is type 3 anything more than very rare in the UK at present, and I suspect elsewhere in the world. The disruption to lifestyle is so great that it is highly noticeable in people experiencing it. Sue wears dark glasses and a hat in shops and sitting in the back of our specially procured 16-year-old car, and has to run away from people who turn on mobile phones. We can see hundreds and thousands of people around us locally who do not have to do this, and nobody else who does! Common sense shows that this is not a conspiracy or cover-up; it is a very small proportion of the population at the moment, such that the few people who do have Level 3 get major newspaper articles written about them because most people see it as so remarkable. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of charles Sent: 28 February 2006 22:36 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper Hello Ian, I see it different. I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in a position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek my advice. My estimate is 10 % of the population. The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from elektrosmog. In Germany there are many *environmental physicians The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. The medical world is our greatest enemy. Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Antivirus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > little > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > the > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > felt > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > found there were other people like her. > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > signs > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > their > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > of > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > many > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > quite > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > "major > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > Ian > SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! 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In reply to this post by perla1133
Hi, none of the links below work for me, they just give "document not
found". _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of perla1133 Sent: 01 March 2006 02:11 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper - How many people have ES? Haha good one. Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello Charles and Diane SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln > &k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w > &k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a > &k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health > &k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health > &k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an > &k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellness program Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Womens health and wellness --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! 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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
Yes, I agree entirely that as Wifi and Wimax grow, far more people could start to experience the symptoms, including the severe form. And that current sufferers could be the "canaries in the mines" who act as a warning for everyone else - if the warning is recognised. This is why I feel personally committed to spreading awareness of this among the public, in a way that is factual, accessible and credible, even though I am "Level 0" on symptoms! I don't want to see any more people end up like Sue, or others on this group - still less become an international epidemic. Which it could. The particularly worrying thing for me was that, until a couple of months back, all the people I had met or heard of with severe "Level 3" ES symptoms had experienced ME/CFS or MCS first. Which meant that severe ES might be confined to a modest number of people whose immune systems were compromised. But now I have met or heard of people with severe ES who have never had ME or MCS, but were pioneer mobile phone users. This gives the potential for, in particular, children and young people who are heavy mobile phone users today (i.e. most of them!!) to develop severe symptoms in 10-20 years, maybe less. We all hope this would not happen, but it has got to be a strong possibility. Maybe (to use another Biblical parallel) we can see ourselves as the watchmen on the watchtower, warning the city of approaching danger. To everyone involved in doing this I say - keep up the good work! Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 01 March 2006 04:33 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper - How many people have ES? Hi again, Ian, I see what you are saying regarding your acquaintances not showing signs. I believe, too, that only those who are otherwise ill are probably going to experience the really severe symptoms. But I do think, as the blanketing of whole cities with Wimax and Wifi continue, that there will in time be ALOT more people having problems. I feel that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg with what is possible with these systems. And, too, all of this adds up. Look at how much has changed in just the last 20 years! My best to you and Sue, Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Hello Charles and Diane Sure, lots of people will have these problems without realising it, so the frequency will be higher than the level of those who report it. The question is how much higher? That's what I'm trying to guess. The best I can say is that we have a very wide circle of friends, acquaintances and relatives, running to several hundred. None of them show the severe ES symptoms that Sue has. One or two have noticed effects which could well be linked to mild ES. The reaction of the remainder varies from sympathy and support to, in some cases, total disbelief. But since they know what we are going through, we are quite sure that they would have come forward if anything had "rung a bell", either with them or recognising it among their friends. So this suggests to me that we are talking of the order of 1% with any noticeable effects, and much fewer with severe ones - at the moment. On the other hand, we have met a good proportion of people at Breakspear Hospital who have ES or MCS symptoms. But this is a very self-selecting group, in that they are people who have illnesses severe enough to drive them to find a private hospital and spend considerable sums on treatment. Likewise it may be that the people who are interested enough to contact you, Charles, are the ones who are actually experiencing something. And only a small proportion of people regularly consult their doctors - only when they are ill. Therefore it seems to me that figures of 10% to 20% are rather high, unless we are talking about some very vague reaction to electrosmog which is at a very low level. Something that has been pointed out in the UK, when a group of ES suffers and supporters met recently, is that we need better definitions of ES, and particularly the different levels experienced. Maybe 3 broad levels: 1. Mild symptoms, usually not noticed or explained away as something else, not debilitating, often leading to no change in lifestyle. 2. Medium symptoms, noticeable and irritating such as skin rash, requiring reduction of regular exposure to electric fields, mobile phones, TV's etc. 3. Severe symptoms, giving major and painful reactions to many sources which are highly disruptive to lifestyle, e.g. inability to travel in modern cars, requiring avoidance of all electrosmog, needing to turn electric power off at night to sleep, bad reactions to fluorescent lights and mobile/cordless phones. Also often accompanied by sensitivity to chemicals, light and sound. I would be prepared to believe 10-20% of type 1, maybe even type 2 (though I don't think even FEB in Sweden has that high a proportion of members - about 0.1% of the population). But no way is type 3 anything more than very rare in the UK at present, and I suspect elsewhere in the world. The disruption to lifestyle is so great that it is highly noticeable in people experiencing it. Sue wears dark glasses and a hat in shops and sitting in the back of our specially procured 16-year-old car, and has to run away from people who turn on mobile phones. We can see hundreds and thousands of people around us locally who do not have to do this, and nobody else who does! Common sense shows that this is not a conspiracy or cover-up; it is a very small proportion of the population at the moment, such that the few people who do have Level 3 get major newspaper articles written about them because most people see it as so remarkable. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of charles Sent: 28 February 2006 22:36 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper Hello Ian, I see it different. I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in a position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek my advice. My estimate is 10 % of the population. The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from elektrosmog. In Germany there are many *environmental physicians The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. The medical world is our greatest enemy. Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. Greetings, Charles Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Antivirus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many (most?) of the > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > little > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > the > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > felt > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > found there were other people like her. > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > signs > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > their > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > of > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > many > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > quite > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > "major > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > Ian > SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln > &k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w > &k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a > &k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health > &k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health > &k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an > &k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellness program Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Womens health and wellness --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
hi ian,
i think you raise some extremely interesting points about ES. I keep asking myself what the heck ES actually IS, and why some ppl say they have it and others not. My parents live opposite a powerful mast, yet no one in their street is concerned about it despite the fact that the guy next door has had melanoma removed, three women have crippling arthritis, (one of whose young daughter now also has developed serious spine problems). These are ppl whose bodies are without doubt (in my mind) suffering the effects of strong EMR exposure yet they don't FEEL it in the way that we do. So then i think, well maybe its that ES ppl are so weak generally and thats why we notice. So then I look to all those with M.E. and their considerably compromised immune systems. Yet ES is virtually unknown in M.E. circles. so what the heck is ES, and why do only certain ppl FEEL it as ES? jane --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hello Charles and Diane > > Sure, lots of people will have these problems without realising it, so the > frequency will be higher than the level of those who report it. The > question is how much higher? That's what I'm trying to guess. > > The best I can say is that we have a very wide circle of friends, > acquaintances and relatives, running to several hundred. None of them show > the severe ES symptoms that Sue has. One or two have noticed effects which > could well be linked to mild ES. The reaction of the remainder varies from > sympathy and support to, in some cases, total disbelief. But since they > know what we are going through, we are quite sure that they would have come > forward if anything had "rung a bell", either with them or recognising it > among their friends. So this suggests to me that we are talking of the > order of 1% with any noticeable effects, and much fewer with severe ones - > at the moment. > > On the other hand, we have met a good proportion of people at Breakspear > Hospital who have ES or MCS symptoms. But this is a very self- selecting > group, in that they are people who have illnesses severe enough to drive > them to find a private hospital and spend considerable sums on treatment. > Likewise it may be that the people who are interested enough to contact you, > Charles, are the ones who are actually experiencing something. And only a > small proportion of people regularly consult their doctors - only when they > are ill. > > Therefore it seems to me that figures of 10% to 20% are rather high, unless > we are talking about some very vague reaction to electrosmog which is at a > very low level. Something that has been pointed out in the UK, when a group > of ES suffers and supporters met recently, is that we need better > definitions of ES, and particularly the different levels experienced. Maybe > 3 broad levels: > > 1. Mild symptoms, usually not noticed or explained away as something else, > not debilitating, often leading to no change in lifestyle. > 2. Medium symptoms, noticeable and irritating such as skin rash, requiring > reduction of regular exposure to electric fields, mobile phones, TV's etc. > 3. Severe symptoms, giving major and painful reactions to many sources which > are highly disruptive to lifestyle, e.g. inability to travel in modern cars, > requiring avoidance of all electrosmog, needing to turn electric power off > at night to sleep, bad reactions to fluorescent lights and mobile/cordless > phones. Also often accompanied by sensitivity to chemicals, light and > sound. > > I would be prepared to believe 10-20% of type 1, maybe even type 2 (though I > don't think even FEB in Sweden has that high a proportion of members - about > 0.1% of the population). But no way is type 3 anything more than very rare > in the UK at present, and I suspect elsewhere in the world. The disruption > to lifestyle is so great that it is highly noticeable in people experiencing > it. Sue wears dark glasses and a hat in shops and sitting in the back of > our specially procured 16-year-old car, and has to run away from people who > turn on mobile phones. We can see hundreds and thousands of people around > us locally who do not have to do this, and nobody else who does! Common > sense shows that this is not a conspiracy or cover-up; it is a very small > proportion of the population at the moment, such that the few people who do > have Level 3 get major newspaper articles written about them because most > people see it as so remarkable. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > charles > Sent: 28 February 2006 22:36 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > > > Hello Ian, > > I see it different. > > I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in > position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. > Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek > my advice. > > My estimate is 10 % of the population. > The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. > Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from > elektrosmog. > In Germany there are many *environmental physicians > > The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the > > fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and > therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not > recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. > The medical world is our greatest enemy. > > Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Norton Antivirus > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > > > > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many > > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > > little > > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > > the > > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > > felt > > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > > found there were other people like her. > > > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > > signs > > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > > their > > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > > of > > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > > many > > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > > quite > > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > > "major > > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? > ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt h+prom > otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+a nd+wel > lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w > ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+ > promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and > +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a > nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program& w4=Hea > lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+ health > +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program > > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health > +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra m&w4=H > ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Women s+heal > th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and > wellness Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health > +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra m&w4=H > ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Women s+heal > th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness > promotion Womens > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an > d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w 4=Heal > th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+h ealth+ > and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness > > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on > the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > > _____ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
Hi Jane,
Yes, very good points. I think that people only recognise ES if they suffer ill effects which are clearly due to electricity and are aggravated by it. People with melanoma and arthritis will not attribute it to electricity, because people have had these diseases for many years, long before masts and mobiles existed. And they may be right. The EMR may not be helping their illnesses. But if we say "EMR is the only cause of them", that statement will be dismissed - correctly in my view. So what causes ES? My impression from all the discussions and case histories is that there is usually a "trigger". People with ME, MCS or other immune-compromised conditions are more easily triggered with ES - and can also get many other diseases more easily. But many people with ME have avoided it, and some "fully healthy" people have got ES. In their case, the trigger seems to have had to be more severe - prolonged VDU use, as in Sweden, or extensive mobile phone use. I believe that it is considered there are also different types and levels of ME, with different principal causes (e.g. Lyme, Epstein-Barr, stress, antibiotics, candidiasis, poor liver detox). People who specifically get MCS seem far more susceptible than most with ME. In Sue's case, she had physical-exhaustion ME (antibiotic and candida related), recovered in a few months, and did not get ES. Then 4 years later she got MCS (without physical ME) and got ES shortly afterwards from a clear "trigger event". At Breakspear Hospital, where many of the patients have MCS or similar, a significant proportion have noticeable ES (Level 3) - even there it is well under 50% though. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of canaryyuk Sent: 02 March 2006 18:43 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper - How many people have ES? hi ian, i think you raise some extremely interesting points about ES. I keep asking myself what the heck ES actually IS, and why some ppl say they have it and others not. My parents live opposite a powerful mast, yet no one in their street is concerned about it despite the fact that the guy next door has had melanoma removed, three women have crippling arthritis, (one of whose young daughter now also has developed serious spine problems). These are ppl whose bodies are without doubt (in my mind) suffering the effects of strong EMR exposure yet they don't FEEL it in the way that we do. So then i think, well maybe its that ES ppl are so weak generally and thats why we notice. So then I look to all those with M.E. and their considerably compromised immune systems. Yet ES is virtually unknown in M.E. circles. so what the heck is ES, and why do only certain ppl FEEL it as ES? jane --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hello Charles and Diane > > Sure, lots of people will have these problems without realising it, so the > frequency will be higher than the level of those who report it. The > question is how much higher? That's what I'm trying to guess. > > The best I can say is that we have a very wide circle of friends, > acquaintances and relatives, running to several hundred. None of them show > the severe ES symptoms that Sue has. One or two have noticed effects which > could well be linked to mild ES. The reaction of the remainder varies from > sympathy and support to, in some cases, total disbelief. But since they > know what we are going through, we are quite sure that they would have come > forward if anything had "rung a bell", either with them or recognising it > among their friends. So this suggests to me that we are talking of the > order of 1% with any noticeable effects, and much fewer with severe ones - > at the moment. > > On the other hand, we have met a good proportion of people at Breakspear > Hospital who have ES or MCS symptoms. But this is a very self- selecting > group, in that they are people who have illnesses severe enough to drive > them to find a private hospital and spend considerable sums on treatment. > Likewise it may be that the people who are interested enough to contact you, > Charles, are the ones who are actually experiencing something. And only a > small proportion of people regularly consult their doctors - only when they > are ill. > > Therefore it seems to me that figures of 10% to 20% are rather high, unless > we are talking about some very vague reaction to electrosmog which is at a > very low level. Something that has been pointed out in the UK, when a group > of ES suffers and supporters met recently, is that we need better > definitions of ES, and particularly the different levels experienced. Maybe > 3 broad levels: > > 1. Mild symptoms, usually not noticed or explained away as something else, > not debilitating, often leading to no change in lifestyle. > 2. Medium symptoms, noticeable and irritating such as skin rash, requiring > reduction of regular exposure to electric fields, mobile phones, TV's etc. > 3. Severe symptoms, giving major and painful reactions to many sources which > are highly disruptive to lifestyle, e.g. inability to travel in modern cars, > requiring avoidance of all electrosmog, needing to turn electric power off > at night to sleep, bad reactions to fluorescent lights and mobile/cordless > phones. Also often accompanied by sensitivity to chemicals, light and > sound. > > I would be prepared to believe 10-20% of type 1, maybe even type 2 (though I > don't think even FEB in Sweden has that high a proportion of members - about > 0.1% of the population). But no way is type 3 anything more than very rare > in the UK at present, and I suspect elsewhere in the world. The disruption > to lifestyle is so great that it is highly noticeable in people experiencing > it. Sue wears dark glasses and a hat in shops and sitting in the back of > our specially procured 16-year-old car, and has to run away from people who > turn on mobile phones. We can see hundreds and thousands of people around > us locally who do not have to do this, and nobody else who does! Common > sense shows that this is not a conspiracy or cover-up; it is a very small > proportion of the population at the moment, such that the few people who do > have Level 3 get major newspaper articles written about them because most > people see it as so remarkable. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > charles > Sent: 28 February 2006 22:36 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > > > Hello Ian, > > I see it different. > > I do many house investigations as a building biologist, and are in > position to see what is going on, and can measure at the same time. > Aside to that, I get many telephone calls and e-mails from people who seek > my advice. > > My estimate is 10 % of the population. > The Austrian epidemiologist dr. Gerd Oberfeld comes to 19 %. > Many German physicians speak about 25 % of their patients suffer from > elektrosmog. > In Germany there are many *environmental physicians > > The reason why we do not have enough and valuable statistics, remains in the > > fact that so many physicians do not want to know about elektrosmog, and > therefore many people with serious elektrosensibility symptoms are not > recognised as such. And thus not accounted for. > The medical world is our greatest enemy. > > Certainly in the Netherlands it is the case, and I assume in the UK also. > > Greetings, > Charles Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Norton Antivirus > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 19:22 > Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Article From Scottish Newspaper > > > > Well, surely it ES still rare, in the severe form that many > > people in this group have. Otherwise I am sure that there would be a > > little > > more awareness of it and support groups would be bigger! Around here in > > the > > UK my best estimate is between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10000 people, because we > > have found only a handful of other sufferers locally, and some hundreds or > > thousands nationally out of a population of 60 million. Both Sue and I > > felt > > very isolated and out on a limb until we went to Breakspear Hospital and > > found there were other people like her. > > > > That being said, I think that current sufferers are the early warning > > signs > > - the tip of a huge future iceberg. > > > > The proportion in Sweden is considerably higher - several thousand in > > their > > FEB group from a population of a few million, with Government recognition > > of > > the effect and that the actual number of sufferers is far higher. But > > many > > of them are simply reporting facial and skin effects, much of which can be > > attributed to heavy VDU use over the years. This is much less socially > > affecting than the more severe types of ES. This distinction is drawn > > quite > > well by the UK Health Protection Agency report, which recognises the > > "major > > social consequences" of this more general/severe type. > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? > ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt h+prom > otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+a nd+wel > lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w > ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+ > promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and > +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a > nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program& w4=Hea > lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+ health > +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program > > Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health > +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra m&w4=H > ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Women s+heal > th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and > wellness Health > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health > +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra m&w4=H > ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Women s+heal > th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness > promotion Womens > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads? t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an > d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w 4=Heal > th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+h ealth+ > and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness > > > _____ > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on > the web. > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > > _____ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > SPONSORED LINKS Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and+wel lness&c=6&s=189&.sig=vIcGM2UmgJbJKDEjgfzpqQ> and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+ promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+and +wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J7n8QpZVMBBWVm-qHJq5zQ> wellness product Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health +and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=XeAczJdwkqbyYmuZkzHDig> and wellness program Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=J_o-ZNrMx0WhRNyePhSDHA> promotion and wellness Health <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+heal th+and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=7QxfNjgXygN-HF4c4KCRpQ> and wellness promotion Womens <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Womens+health+and+wellness&w1=Health+an d+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Heal th+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Womens+health+ and+wellness&c=6&s=189&.sig=L9epDw2QuwtaCNPDXGNQOw> health and wellness _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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