Posted by evie15422 on
URL: https://www.es-forum.com/Supplements-tp3054210p3084351.html

Hi, Kathy,
 
You could try calcium AEP and pantethine (together) and see what happens?  When I took it, I had to repack the pills in tiny amounts to tolerate it (both calcium and pantethine.)  I was told to do this by a nutritionist I contacted by phone.  I was very intolerant to calcium back then too.  He told me to start out very small--like 1/20th or less of a capsule/ eachcal and pantethine.  I started out taking this amount every other day or maybe even just twice a week.  He told me when I saw no reaction from this dose, to take it more often--building up to this amount everyday.  When I no longer saw a reaction to this dose, I added a bit more to the repacked capsules (you buy empty capsules to do this).  Then I did the same thing--took that every other day or twice a week (keeping the old dose for days in between) and worked up to taking it everyday as I tolerated that dose better.  You follow this routine until you are taking one entire pill of
 each pantethine and calcium AEP daily.  Then I started over again till I could tolerate 2 pills of each for each meal.  This took many months to get to an entire dose. 
 
The calcium AEP and pantethine detox things--especially bad gut bugs and their wastes.  So this is why you want to go slow.  You will get detox symptoms and they can make you feel very ill if you are detoxing too much, too quickly.  The reason I take Calcium AEP is it is the type of calcium your brain uses.  If there is calcium efflux from the brain, you need to put back a calcium that the brain can utilize well. 
 
Once you get the calcium back into the cells, you ideally want to stay out of emfs to keep the calcium in there.  If you are in emfs and you experience calcium efflux, once you are on 2 caps each calcium and pantethine, you can carry these with you anywhere you go and take 2 caps each when you are experiencing symptoms of calcium efflux.  Take them with a large glass of water.  Now this probably only works if you are indeed experiencing calcium efflux, around emfs.  If you are in emfs for a long period and the efflux does not stop, you will need to supplement 2 more pills/ each cal and pantethine every 30 minutes or so until you are out of the emfs. 
 
On top of this, if/ when you would actually get to this point, you ideally should try to find a substance which works to keep the calcium in the cells (a type of calcium channel blocker).  This is where manganese and taurine have worked for me.  But they must be taken in very low doses and not abused.  You should ideally not be taking these more than 2 or 3 times a week (one dose that often).  And I would rather hope you not take these at all, and find a better solution.  ;)
 
Reacting immediately to some supps could be a sign that they are detox supps in the process of detoxing things.  Due to being gluten-free I must take molybdenum supplementation, but molyb is a very strong detoxer.  It will detox sulphur compounds and mercury.  If I have missed molyb supplementation for very long when I retake it, I can get bad reactions from it almost immediately.  This is because there is a back-log of compounds, which only molyb can detox, waiting to be detoxed. 
 
Also, sometimes one supp can't be taken on its own--it needs support in one way or another from another supp.  So, write down when you have reactions to supps.  Then you will need to do homework to find out whether you are taking supporting nutrients in large enough doses when this happens.
 
Interesting about your son.  How is it that you tracked his reaction down to calcium?  Does he react to calcium in foods the same way?  My son used to go bonkers on milk--hyperactivity.  Is this the same thing?  We had him on rice and almond milks/ no cheeses, etc for 3 years and then he started drinking regular milk at school and did okay, so we slowly added regular milk back to his diet.  He has had no problems since (and he's 35).  I am a tad suspicious that he had celiac damage to his gut back then which caused the dairy intolerance, tho. 
 
Well, I don't know if this will help you find your happy medium in dosing or not.  But this was how I finally found my happy medium. ;)
 
Good luck,
Diane


--- On Sun, 6/19/11, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: KathyB <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Supplements
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011, 12:52 PM


 




Diane,

Now, that I know  emf's drain it. The key is finding a happy mediuam in dosing.
Mine is in the low range of normal on bloodwork. I don't want it to go below the accepted range.

I don't know the whole story w me.  I only react immediately to some supps.  My son
however, reacts to caclium as an excitory nutrient - takes what's in his multi. Maybe he wouldn't when his body's supported by enough magnesium.

Kathy

From: Evie <[hidden email]>Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Supplements
Date: Sunday, June 19, 2011, 12:30 AM

 

hi yet again, Kathy!  ;)

 

No, the reacting to supplements quickly has nothing to do with calcium influx, I think.  I am not sure reacting quickly to supplements is all that predictive of bbb damage either, but it might be.  If you react really badly and quickly to medicines, that would be more predictive of bbb damage due to tight junction leaking.

 

Calcium efflux, not influx might cause you to feel shaky, crabby, and lack energy to clean, (as well as other symptoms and issues) due to tight junction leaking.

 

As far as whether you are having calcium efflux or calcium reacting as an excitatory nutrient....  I am not sure whether you would be able to tell this or not.  It depends upon your symptoms.  For me, I follow symptoms.  I notice when my bp falls, especially, my body craves calcium.  It is like calcium is draining out of me.  In a way it is literally draining out, at least from particular cells!  When my bp falls, I can take calcium and make it rise again to normal.  I think if calcium were only acting as an excitatory agent, it would not work to add more to raise bp.  I have seen calcium supplementation work on many symptoms during and after an ES episode. 

 

Diane

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: KathyB <[hidden email]>

Subject: [eSens] Re: Supplements

To: [hidden email]

Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 6:23 PM

 

Sorry to jump in here. I react to a sup. almost after taking too.

Is that  calcium influx?  Instead of in cells it goes to the brain. Could that cause you to feel shaky, crabby,   or have energy to clean after a friend talks to you on a cordless?

http://www.icswebsite.com/emf/emfissues/emfissues9.html

You could try quitting gluten & see how you feel after a week or two. Made an amazing difference for me.

How would one know if you had efflux or have an issue w calcium acting as excitatory nutrient?

Kathy

[hidden email]> wrote

Interestingly, tho, calcium is implicated in the bbb tight junction

problem (leaky tjs cause calcium to efflux).  But, calcium has wide

ranging functions in the body, so it is hard to say what it is doing for

you, but if it is having an effect which is good when using the

niacinamide, I'd keep taking the supps with it in. 

 

What I took for healing my bbb was a combo of calcium AEP, pantethine

(B5), manganese, and taurine.  I don't do well with glutamine supps, but

it is likely glutamine would help most people.  I do say over and over

here, tho, be very careful if you use manganese.  It is a toxic metal in

excess.  I am very careful and only take a small amount UP TO twice a

week.  If you intend to use manganese, please write me and I will send

more pertinent information. 

--- On Sat, 6/18/11, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Evie <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Supplements

 

Hi, Sveta,

 

No problem with jumping in!  lol  If Lizzie and I wanted to discuss things personally, we could do it in a private mail!

 

Niacinamide can lead to an increase in serotonin, and serotonin can lead to an increase in GABA.  SOOOO, you could be having either a reaction to increased GABA crossing the bbb, or you could be having something a bit different--serotonin syndrome.  Look it up, Sveta, you will find much more online than I could tell you in a very long email.  ;)  Do you have hot flushes, turning red, spells of profuse sweating, with the anxiety?  This would be more likely serotonin syndrome.

 

Also, what you describe ACTUALLY sounds just to be a bad detox reaction (foggy-headed, anxiety....)  Maybe the niacinamide is detoxing alot of candida and you are just detoxing too quickly?  I would have to know a lot more about your symptoms to answer your question definitively, but look into all 3--it is likely detoxing, tho.  To detox less quickly, just cut the amount of niacinamide you are taking.  Over time, you can very slowly increase it and likely tolerate it better.

 

Interestingly, tho, calcium is implicated in the bbb tight junction problem (leaky tjs cause calcium to efflux).  But, calcium has wide ranging functions in the body, so it is hard to say what it is doing for you, but if it is having an effect which is good when using the niacinamide, I'd keep taking the supps with it in. 

 

What I took for healing my bbb was a combo of calcium AEP, pantethine (B5), manganese, and taurine.  I don't do well with glutamine supps, but it is likely glutamine would help most people.  I do say over and over here, tho, be very careful if you use manganese.  It is a toxic metal in excess.  I am very careful and only take a small amount UP TO twice a week.  If you intend to use manganese, please write me and I will send more pertinent information. 

 

The noticing the effects of supps so quickly does seem like it could mean you have some BBB issues.  Do you have this with all supps or just certain ones.  With certain ones, it could have more to do with detoxing, again.

 

Yes, going gluten-free would mean a huge life-style adjustment for you!  However, if you need to go there, you need to go there.  You cannot choose which illness you will treat and not treat.  Illness is illness; any illness will affect another.  You cannot treat ES without treating gluten issues (if you have them) or gut bug issues.  Also, the fact that you have gut bug issues in the first place is an indicator that gut damage has been first caused by something!  Gluten accomplishes that quite well in some people.  ;)

 

Sorry I am just answering your post.  I am only online weekends and I usually go offline Sunday afternoons (incase you have not yet read that on one of my umpteen weekend posts).  lol

 

Bless you,

Diane

--- On Mon, 6/13/11, svetaswan <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: svetaswan <[hidden email]>

Subject: [eSens] Re: Supplements

To: [hidden email]

Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 8:39 PM

 

Hi Diane,

Pardon me for jumping in here - but some of what you've said here sounds like it could be exactly what I'm experiencing. For the past several days, I have been trying to take a 250mg capsule of niacinamide 2 to 3 times per day. I have read all of the info on niacinamide which states that it's supposed to be quite helpful for anxiety - even acting as sort-of a benzodiazepine (sp.) in the brain. (Supposedly, people have been able to reduce or stop taking their benzos by taking this nutrient.) It's also supposed to be helpful for reducing the toxic effects of Candida/yeast - by helping to clear that nasty alcohol byproduct acetaldehyde. These are the reasons why I thought niacinamide would be great for me.

But instead of a calming effect, I've gotten this frustrating paradoxical reaction - I've felt agitated, even more spacey/foggy than normal - off-kilter. I have noticed that body-agitation - that figety need to move around. Sometimes when I take it, I feel like the agitation might be coming more from my body than my brain, if that makes sense: my brain may be pretty calm, but my body will have this uncomfortable, keyed-up feeling. Other times, both my brain and my body feel agitated.

In light of what you've shared, I wonder if this is evidence that my BBB is leaky - as I believe niacinamide directly or indirectly increases GABA levels. Before I read your post, I had my little "theories", such as:

-My brain/body has been accustomed to a certain biochemical state, and it is "rebelling" against niacinamide's pushing it toward another biochemical state. Maybe it needs time to adjust.

-the niacinamide is somehow increasing acidity levels in my body. I've had a problem over the years with many supplements making me too "acidic" - and my body doesn't respond well to that increased acidity. I've had to greatly reduce or even back off supplements altogether because of this type of reaction. I've read that niacinamide can increase uric acid levels.

I have found that with Vitamin B6 (if a lab test I took in November is to be believed, I have severe pyroluria) - I've had somewhat of the same reaction. It had caused agitation and insomnia - particularly the Twinlabs brand. I seem to tolerate the Source Naturals' brand of B6 (50mg) well, though - I attributed this to the calcium phosphate that Source Naturals put in the tablets. Maybe the calcium phosphate somehow has a calming, and/or alkalinizing effect - or it helps the B6 to "land more softly" in my system.

Maybe switching to a niacinamide supplement that has calcium (phosphate) in it might be a partial solution - although I feel like this could only be a superficial, "band-aid" solution.

It feels like there is a lot more going on with the niacinamide than just increased acidity, though. It sounds like what you've said about the leaky BBB could be a very real possibility with me. I've also noticed that supplements seem to have a very rapid effect on me - I can often start to feel the effect of supplements within 10 - 20 seconds. Could this be a sign of leaky-gut and/or leaky BBB?

May I ask what you did nutritionally to heal your leaky BBB? I'm sure you've shared it before - but it can be difficult to wade through all of the messages. (Maybe I'll try to do a Google search later.) You can just outline it - hopefully it won't be too much work!

It would be nice if I could somehow get my intestines biopsied to see if there is any damage. Since the things one has to do to heal a damaged/leaky gut can be pretty labor-intensive, it would be nice to have actual, tangible confirmation that I have gut-damage. I've been "toying" with the idea of transitioning to a gluten-free and/or casein-free diet, or even going further than that and trying the Specific Carbohydrate diet. But you're talking about someone who never cooks - it would be a huge, HUGE lifestyle adjustment for me.

Regards,

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], Evie <evie15422@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Kathy,

>  

> Sorry to hear of your dilemma.  GABA won't help if you have tight junction permeability or blood-brain barrier leaking.  GABA is what some doctors actually use to see if you have BBB leaking.  If you do have it, you get very agitated instead of the calm, mellowed out feeling you are supposed to have with GABA.  [Sometimes, tho, you first get the calm mellow feeling and then after another dose get the bad agitated, angry feelings.]  This is perhaps a good way, however, to assess whether a leaky BBB and tight junctions have anything to do with your ES!  You would have good evidence if you took the GABA after being badly emf-ed.

>  

> Have you tried D3 from an all natural source?  Carlson's Labs has a D3 made from Fish oils.  It is pretty pricey, but you only take it every other day and so it lasts a long time. 

>  

> B12 is something which might help you.  Get a sublingual pill, which bypasses the gut, and the best quality you can find.  I use methylcobalamin.  There are different types.  B12 helps the nervous system.

>  

> Possibly a hydrogen supplement would help.

>  

> You mentioned not doing well on calcium, and I didn't either until I took calcium AEP.  I personally always take it with pantethine.  Emfs can cause calcium efflux from where it should be in the brain.  Calcium AEP is the type calcium the brain uses.  Again, this would pertain to you only if you know your BBB is leaking, and not necessarily pertain, if it is not. 

>  

> If you have a good doctor who you can go to, also, a calcium channel blocker might be helpful, if you know for sure you are having calcium efflux.  I take the natural calcium channel blockers manganese and taurine once in a while (I do not consider these safe for me to take on a daily basis, but then, I have no need for doing that anyway, since I am now rarely having ES symptoms).  [If you need to try these, however, do ask me for more info, because manganese can act as a toxic metal.  I am only here on weekends, tho, so expect to wait a few days before hearing from me.  (Sorry!)]  The way this works, from my understanding, if you have calcium efflux is:  the tight junction is opened by emfs, then this allows calcium migration to occur.  The tight junction cannot sometimes close properly, so sometimes the efflux doesn't stop till a calcium

channel blocker is taken.  If you take a calcium channel

blocker, it will block the calcium from

> leaking, often, in the first place.  (At least that is how it is with the manganese and taurine.)  However, know that many of us have conflicting medical needs for which calcium channel blockers are not a good therapy.  (If it were that easy, we could all go running to our docs for calcium channel blockers.  ;)  )  You may share this with your doctor and if she is a very good doc, she will check it out herself and may have even better ideas. 

>  

> As to shielding.....  There are a number of good options for windows: aluminum or steel screens for windows (I forget the size mesh, but it has to be small and you have to cover the windows including the window frames); there are anti-emf window films; there are anti-emf fabrics which can be made into curtain panels (I velcro mine to a painted lath board on the wall at the ceiling--glue the lath board up; my drapes are also ceiling height); I also use huge plants--fan palms, other palms, large ficus, scheffalera(?sp?); and I have used a large screen made from 3 doors hinged together and covered on one side with heavy aluminum foil, which is movable and portable.  Outside trees are even better shields, especially thick evergreens, but placement can be a challenge and it takes at least 3 years before they are large enough.  [However, as a home owner, I would like getting as many trees in  place

to help with neighboring smart

meters, as possible!]

>  

> On shielding with screen, fabric, foil....  It seems that if you double fabric or screen on itself, it will then negate shielding and allow emfs thru, so for edging and seams, you must make a 3 layer seam.  Odd thicknesses block emfs, even thicknesses let emfs pass thru.  Very hard to grasp, I know from experience.  lol 

>  

> Also, if there are aberrant, digital, or wireless frequencies inside your house, they will bounce off of some of these fixes and cause you problems from within.  You can try heavy aluminum foil taped to the wall to see how it works temporarily until you get something better in place.  Remember there might be also metal in the wall or nails in studding that could cause problems. 

>  

> Hope some of this is helpful; it sounds like you truly need something fast,

> Bless you,

> Diane

>

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