>
> What are your levels? Loni
>
> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, furstc0404 <furstc@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: furstc0404 <furstc@...>
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Sue's history - Intravenous glutathione (and other methods)
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 5:19 PM
>
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>
> Thanks for detailed response, Ian.
>
> I also have the missing GSTM-1 apparently, this causes increases in ROS and other free radicals causing debilitating symptoms/degenerati ve illnesses, including MCS for some.
>
> To date, I have not be able to find out, if it is possible to alter the missing gene.
>
> Several articles discuss raising glutathione is only beneficial when it is raised.
>
> I have found nothing which mentions the mechanism by which it works when GSTM-1 is mnissing. Or, if there are alternatives, concerning other antioxidants.
>
> Does this mean that we are to take Glutathione for the rest of our lives,and what would be the implications if there is the missing gene?
>
> Glutathione is a powerful detoxifier, but, there are others.
>
> Some have reacted to Glutathione, as I read on CFS boards and other, in particular, those of us, who have suffered severe Adverse Drug Reaction, meaning here prescribed drugs such as fluoroquinolones antibiotics or other meds.
>
> I suppose, it might be wise to perhaps start with a nebulizer or patch, which have been found to raise glutathione.
>
> I have been taking ImmunoPro and Vit Bs, C and selenium for a year, and will start this again. It enables the body to manufacture its own glutathione.
>
> Marc mentioned some other ways of rasing glutathione which are ineresting. I read somewhere that taking milk thistle and artichokes also help raising glut.
>
> The Functional Medical Doctor I see, fromn Belgium, says that it is useless to try and raise glutathione if the GSTM-1 is missing. I need to read upmore on this.
>
> Unfortunatly, genomics. epigenetics, molecular medicine aand very much very much in its infancy.
>
> More input on this discussion would be appreciated,
>
> --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kooky,
> >
> > Sue's missing gene is GSTM-1, but we didn't know this until a couple of
> > years after the glutathione IV treatments started - we just found that they
> > worked! Sue's glutathione showed up low in a test (incidentally this seems
> > quite a tricky test to interpet, the levels did not look that low compared
> > with the reference but the doctor felt they were very bad and strongly
> > recommended glute). She started by taking about one IV glutathione per week,
> > along with a cocktail of other items including B vitamins and magnesium
> > sulphate (both her Mg and sulphate were very low). After the initial
> > improvement she was able to drop to one a month and has sometimes been able
> > to leave it several months. The relief is not just short-term - she can
> > feel the difference immediately but it then continues, and if she starts
> > getting MCS symptoms she knows it's time for a "top-up", after which she can
> > always feel that she is able to detoxify things better.
> >
> > Unfortunately not many doctors or therapists have the facilities for IV
> > treatment. We go to the Breakspear Hospital (private) in Hemel Hempstead,
> > so that's 20 miles north of London - not aware of anyone else in the area
> > that does it.
> >
> > An alternative to IV is inhale glutathione using a nebuliser (like for
> > asthma); Sue is about to try this. Breakspear suggest it as an alternative
> > and it is also recommended by Dr Martin Pall in his book on "Explaining
> > Unexplained Illnesses" (very heavy going, but certainly comprehensive and
> > scientific). He also feels that reduced glutathione taken orally is
> > ineffective because it gets rapidly destroyed in the gut - although some
> > therapists suggest that even if only 10% survives long enough, it could
> > still have a beneficial effect.
> >
> > We know quite a lot of patients at Breakspear who have had benefits from
> > glutathione. Marc's the first person I've heard of who has had a negative
> > reaction but - we are all different. Just because a treatment works for
> > most people doesn't mean it fits your particular metabolism. For example,
> > Sue reacts badly to B12 and folic acid which are normally beneficial for
> > most people. Also, Breakspear offer a very wide range of treatments and
> > tests, but these can be very expensive, so watch your budget!
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> > furstc0404
> > Sent: 30 June 2009 11:06
> > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Sue's history
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ian:
> >
> > I have the missing genes for glutathione according to the NutriGenomics
> > testing from Genova. I have been raising glutathione gently and slowly for a
> > year now, taking ImmunoPro, Vit C + selenium.
> >
> > I would like to have the Glut IV.
> >
> > But, as you mnetioned it is short lasting. From what I read, the effects
> > only last 4 hours, then it goes down again.
> >
> > How often did she do the IV glut? Did she test her glut level after stopping
> > Glut IV a few months later?
> >
> > Also, how does that work, if I have the missing gene for glutathione?
> >
> > Lstly, do you of a good MD in London, UK, who administers Glut IV?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Kooky
> >
> > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com, "Ian Kemp"
> > <ianandsue.kemp@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Diane,
> > >
> > > Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS
> > > (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is
> > > just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function
> > > for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness,
> > > is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels
> > > have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> > [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com] On Behalf
> > Of Evie
> > > Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > hi Ian,
> > >
> > > interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that
> > > would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking
> > > glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she ableto
> > > side step that by the iv glutathione treatments?
> > >
> > > they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States
> > if
> > > you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for
> > > instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. ifyou
> > > could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you
> > > cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members
> > who
> > > share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj
> > > permeability gene.)
> > >
> > > thanks for your input,
> > > diane
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
> > > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net>
> > > ukgateway.net>
> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> > > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM
> > >
> > > Hi Diane,
> > >
> > > I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially aswe
> > > have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that
> > > Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the
> > > usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us
> > > having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years,
> > > which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off andneed
> > > to be repeated.
> > >
> > > The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and
> > > expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would
> > > be applied to test people before they were given long-term medicationsuch
> > > as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them.
> > > But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that
> > > might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are
> > > a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest
> > article
> > > on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad
> > > unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> > > Evie
> > > Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history
> > >
> > > hi Ian,
> > >
> > > you wrote: "The big question for me is why people
> > > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite
> > > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never
> > taking
> > > supplements. "
> > >
> > > it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think?
> > > this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel
> > > dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene
> > > for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems,
> > mcs,
> > > celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders
> > > share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and
> > > end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if
> > > tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to
> > > believe there is not still some genetic difference.
> > >
> > > my 2 cents,
> > > d
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@
> > > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net>
> > > ukgateway.net>
> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com
> > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM
> > >
> > > Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people
> > > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite
> > > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never
> > taking
> > > supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too
> > > much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic
> > > treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've
> > ever
> > > had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that....
> > >
> > > Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of
> > > the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was
> > > something other than heavy metals.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> > > Marc
> > > Martin
> > > Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56
> > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history
> > >
> > > > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first
> > > > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and
> > > > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the
> > > > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's
> > >
> > > Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had
> > > a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer)
> > > since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillingsfor
> > > many years (with no particular precautions during most of their
> > > removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for
> > > overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the
> > > doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics.
> > > So pick your poison... :-)
> > >
> > > > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful
> > > > with the alpha lipoic acid
> > >
> > > Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal-
> > > chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators.
> > > They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And
> > > I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured
> > > his ES mostly using ALA.
> > >
> > > I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can
> > > hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals.
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
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