Ian, thank you for the thoughts. I wouldn't say I was "over" sensative to this issue. Despite
my experience. It is my professional opinion, I feel after 20 years in the business and
educational experience in the area (University Degree - Canadian) I feel entitled to make
All chemicals are dangerous. Exposure to most causes dire and severe consequances to
Fluorine as it is compressed in coal IS a considered what the petroleum industry calls a
polyarmohydrocarbon. Fluorine is pervasive in its natural source...that being a "product" of
fossil fuel carbon sources. All gases, I would contend, that eminate from this source would
contain a fluorine attribute. It would bond in some way.
Fluorine is what makes the earth's core hot. The molecular movement, which by itself is
somewhat unique because of its structure, keeps the lava molten. The lava acts like
cartilage between the plates of the earth.
The lines in the press get "slurred" between fluorine and fluoride. The correct name for the
chemical put into water for "purification" (HAHAHAHAH) purposes is mostly in the form of
hydrofluorosilicic acid). What is used in toothpaste is sodium fluoride.
This being said, it is recognised by all industry reporting standards that hydrogen fluoride
is regulated as a hazardous and toxic pollutant that requires special consideration for
disposal and storage. The petroleum industry uses it pervasivly for refining petroleum
I don't want to get into a debate about fluoride. From my position, any debate is moot
because I am not an experiment about what MIGHT happen. I live it. It is pretty hard to
deal with position about what will NOT happen when it is happening right infront of you.
Even Harvard University....talk about prestigious...has a recent report that associated
fluoridation in young boys to a sevenfold increased risk of osteosarcoma. It is not widely
published as the dental school is associated with Colgate. Conflict of interest is
immediately apparent.
I am kind of on a "live and let live" cycle here.....what happened to me happened quickly.
The only difference between what is happening to me and those big boys who make
decisions to fluoridate water is that ...it happens to them too...only slowly.
AND....a bigger difference is that so far...I know what to do to make me feel better....
>
> Hi Karen,
>
> Yep, most of this is correct (and I do apologise that this is of course an
> extremely sensitive subject for you because of your nightmare experience
> with fluoric acid which has affected your whole life - I read your story
> with horror when you joined the group). But as I said, you can say similar
> things for chlorides, bromides, oxides, nitrates etc ... the atom must
> always be in its context. Chlorine and hydrogen chloride are nasty
> substances, almost as bad as fluorine and HF, but that does not mean we
> should be scared of all chlorides or the things that contain them.
>
> Couple of points. I am in the UK, hence it is "proposals" to fluoridate
> water (which have been considered locally rather than nationally). Fluorine
> is (as you point out) an element, so it is not a hydrocarbon, which is a
> compound of carbon and hydrogen. And that, incidentally, means that every
> atom of fluorine is natural and has been around since the earth began,
> 99.99%+ in the form of fluorides, as fluorine is so incredibly reactive that
> it does not stay as the element for very long. A fluoride is simply a
> chemical compound containing one or more fluorine atoms.
>
> Best wishes, Ian
>
> _____
>
> From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> tayloka_40
> Sent: 13 March 2006 16:56
> To:
[hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Fluoride
>
>
> Ian...water fluoridation proposal? Are you in Canada or the US? Canada
> Fluoridates. US
> Fluoridates. Most NA has adopted water fluoridation because it is cheap. My
> area started
> fluoridating in late 1980s. As far as what is reported to the WHO, only
> cities in Canada and
> the US DO fluoridate. No European countries fluoridate their water.
>
> The actual use of fluoride in products does NOT have 100 year history. At
> best....maybe
> 40.
>
> Fluorine is a naturally occuring element that was synthesized for use in
> commercial and
> industrial uses.
>
> Fluorine...the stuff that is naturally occuring in the earth has 9 protons
> and 10 nuetrons
> and when exposed to the atmosphere it is a COLOURLESS orderless gas. When
> coal is
> expposed to the processing cycle to make electricity, fluorine is the
> by-product. It is
> compressed in the coal.
>
> Fluorine, in my industry (oil & gas analysis), and I would suspect in most
> industries is
> considered a hydrocarbon. It is a constiuent in all fossil fuels...oil, gas,
> coal. Volcaoes emit
> fluorine gas, along with a host of other gases. Earth quakes emit fluorine
> gas.
>
> When Fluorine is in the atmosphere it combines with other airborne molecules
> and forms
> other gases that can have attributes of colour etc. When fluorine is exposed
> to sunlight it
> becomes hydrogen fluorine.
>
> The fluoride we use.....it is used in plastics, cooking products (teflon),
> PFOA products (all
> plastics basically), household cleaning products, transmission fluid, window
> washer fluid,
> jet liner fluid is stabalized with fluoric acid so it does not freeze at
> high altitudes. Fluoride
> is used in most poisons, herbacides...is it the primary constiuent in
> compound
> 1080...which by the way a BIG load is missing from Nebraska I think. Thatis
> the
> compound the germans discovered to quickly eliminate the rats in germany.It
> was very
> effective.
>
> It is used in medicine...like vioxx, celebrex, prozac, anesthetics, oh this
> list is too long for
> here. Toothpaste, whiteners....and if we think that fluoride is not reacting
> with sugars,
> chlorides, it is a bonding agent afferall....inside of our bodies then we
> have fooled
> ourselves by chemistry. The truth about chemistiry is that every moleculeon
> the face of
> this earth gets to do the proton/nuetron dance....I think I hear music to
> this...LOLOL....chemstiry is dynamic and keeps happening even when we cannot
> see those
> chemical reactions occur.
>
> Let me see, they use fluoridated water to reconstitute juice. In Canada, our
> Health Ministry
> issued a report about baby formula....a toxc cocktail that should bear a
> warning label.
> Canada could not PUBLISH that report in the US. Blocked by manufacturers.
> Who makes
> baby formula? There is fluoride in baby formula.
>
> Oh...US munitions are made from Uranium Hexa-fluoride. Gets real hot to
> pierce the
> tanks.
>
> Drip...drip....drip....adding a drop a day of fluoride from multiple sources
> puts most North
> Americans in the range of exposure between 10 to 20 mg a day. Let's just say
> you put a
> bottle of pop (soda), the ones contained in the plastic 2 litre containers,
> let that container
> stand in the sun....then measure the fluoride level of the pop. Fluoride
> leaks from the
> plastic because under low levels of heat it becomes unstable. This
> instability can be seen
> in all plastics. If those plastics store food....yep....dose of fluoride
> AGAIN!!!!!
>
> There are reports on what that quantity did to rats. DuPont has published
> this. Most of the
> ES symptoms discussed on this board are attributable to a calcium channel
> blocking agent.
>
> That is what electricty and light does. At various concentrations of course.
>
> This is not anti - big business.....no...it certainly is not...is for the
> advocation of
> responsible decision making regardless of how big your business is. I would
> suggest, that
> even if you had one employee....and you are responsble for products that
> touch
> millions...then I would say you have a "big" business and a responsibility
> to conduct that
> business in such way that causes no harm.
>
> Money over souls.
>
> Take care
>
> Karen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In
[hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote:
> >
> > Before we get too carried away on the anti-big business stuff, let's just
> > remember the history of fluorides. It was observed nearly 100 years back
> by
> > dentists in certain communities that a lot of the local population had
> > mottled teeth, which was perceived as being unsightly. Then they did a
> few
> > statistics and found that these people's teeth were a lot stronger and
> they
> > had much fewer cavities and fillings. Investigations showed that the key
> > factor was high natural levels of fluoride in the water. The push to get
> > fluorides in toothpaste came jointly from the dental profession (with the
> > laudable aim of reducing the number of fillings they had to do) and
> > consumers. Fluoridation of water was proposed in quite a lot of
> communities
> > in the UK and Europe as well as the US/Canada. I don't think many adopted
> > it; there was some uncertainty, but also more of a feeling on cost grounds
> > that it was wasteful to fluoridate a whole water supply when most of it
> > would go down baths, sinks, toilets, hosepipes etc. Fluoride toothpaste
> > seemed a more sensible way to go as it was directed at the specific area
> > that needed it.
> >
> > The composition of "salt" is always going to vary depending on its source.
> > Any salt from anywhere (rock or sea) will contain mainly chloride, but
> also
> > greater or lesser amounts of fluoride, bromide and iodide, besides
> countless
> > other things. They are all very closely chemically related (halides,
> > compounds of halogens) and can't easily be separated from each other. The
> > chemical similarity would also the reason why high levels of fluoride have
> > been reported to give "goitre" effects (low thyroid due to iodine
> > deficiency). Normally the levels required are far beyond those which one
> > could ingest in salt in food - but I guess salt baths and salt lamps could
> > give you a higher dose. Difficult to know without actually measuring it,
> > and testing the individual impact it has on your body. For anyone with
> > hypothyroidism, though, (and this seems to be the case with quite a lotof
> > ME/MCS/ES people), it does seem to be something to consider.
> Incidentally,
> > brine baths, Dead Sea baths/mudpacks, and sea bathing will all give
> similar
> > effects of exposure to a wide range of halides but evidently most people
> do
> > not suffer any problems from them.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > tayloka_40
> > Sent: 13 March 2006 05:10
> > To:
[hidden email]
> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Himalayan Salt alert
> >
> >
> > Andrew...I think the jist of the article is that salt is salt. No mountain
> > makes it magical or
> > any better, as for efficacy. It would stand to reason this salt would be
> > higher in fluoride
> > since the water table source is supposed to be exposed to fluorines in the
> > earth.
> >
> > Similar to the fluorines found in tea. It is a wise eye to watch for
> > fluoridation in all food
> > processing. There are fluoridated water drinks for kids...Flo Go....a
> little
> > dinasaur on the
> > package with articial flavours....thankfully...LOLOLOL...no colour
> > added...LMAO...
> >
> > No colour just fluoride so you can watch your kids glow in the dark....or
> > bones melt...or
> > thyroid...or ADD or ADHD or sterility or depression, teeth malformation,
> > sterility.
> >
> > BUT.....it is good for you. The United States and Canada (we are the
> > lemmings/sheep here)
> > are the only countries that fluoridate water. Money talks. Need to dispose
> > of a few
> > thousand pounds of toxic...radioactive...fluoric acid (byproduct of
> smelting
> > industrly)
> >
> > Oh...Oh...here is a good idea....let's put it up for sale...tell everyone
> it
> > is good for them.
> > Viola' we will teach these North Americans how to digest radiation...
> >
> > Go team go.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
[hidden email], Andrew McAfee <amcafeerr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So does this mean that all Himalayan salt is high in Flouride or is
> > > there a good source of Himalayan Salt and a bad source?
> > > Andrew
> > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 8:26 PM, snoshoe_2 wrote:
> > >
> > > > I ran across this the other day, so be careful to double, double check
> > > > where your himalayan salt is coming from if that is the kind you use.
> > > >
http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/himalaya.html> > > >
> > > > ~ Snoshoe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
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