Posted by
Ian Kemp on
URL: https://www.es-forum.com/root-cause-of-ES-experts-tp1540039p1540054.html
What a very interesting post. I agree entirely about "the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. ". Simple example - drugs can
only be tested for a year or two, so any effects of long-term use on people
will be unknown till they actually happen.
Whether it's actually possible to think about those implications thoroughly
is another matter - it's hard to forecast, and it becomes ever harder as the
pace of change gets faster. The Soviet Union went for centralized control,
with Five Year Plans - and look where it got them. But yes, it's still
important to try.
I feel the vast majority of people are shortsighted rather than evil. We
all tend to rely on our own experience and what we've been taught. Many
people nowadays are sceptical and disillusioned of things that are radically
new. That makes it harder for them to accept something like ES which has
appeared from nowhere and is outside their experience.
Ian
_____
From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
quaixemen
Sent: 25 November 2005 13:23
To:
[hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: root cause of ES/experts
I'm not sure the moderator would ever allow the discussion to turn
into a political argument in the group. And that may be the direction
this is heading. But I would respond by saying that if I were still
a young man in my twenties and still had the energy of a young man
your words would be an inspiration to me. I see the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. It's all short sighted
decision making. People who think short-sightedly are winning the
argument and the war of ideas. The only difference makers I see
these days are evil. They are changing the world and making a
difference but they are making it a much worse place to live.
Moderates are crushed like an evil stone cut out of a mountain
rolling through the world crushing any voice that isn't far right
wing. I know my experience isn't typical but I see absolutely nobody
out there fighting for me and for what I need to survive as a human
and like the black hole that cares for nobody but itself that is what
one must become in order to survive. When nobody else gives a damn
about you then you must care about nobody else but yourself and you
don't have the energy to change the world. All your energy is now
directed at saving only yourself.
--- In
[hidden email], "Maral Arslanlioglu"
<sayatarslanlioglu@t...> wrote:
>
> Hello people,
>
>
>
> I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher
(till now
> :-)) so you don't know me.
>
>
>
> After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with
Ian but
> also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is
trying to
> save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield
your
> living room or your house or your body, when the environment is
literally
> full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why
there is
> no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it
is,
> scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
> (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop
it "at the
> source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
> physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem,
work on
> individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could
be made
> "safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could
be made
> "safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody
know of such
> a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really
impossible to
> find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it
somehow?
>
>
>
> Sayat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ian
> Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
> To:
[hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>
>
> The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the
FEAR
>
> factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
>
> diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible
symptoms.
>
> It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking
supplements
>
> for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes
can be a
>
> big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function
further! I feel
>
> it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their
biggest
>
> impact on people in modern high-stress jobs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm lucky - I don't have ME or ES, and so I can eat a "normal"
balanced
>
> diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am
eating or,
>
> conversely, not taking, I ought to be practically at death's door!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is NOT, of course, to deny that special diets, supplements or
>
> treatments are useful and necessary for people with ES and other
chronic
>
> illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue
has 3
>
> boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of
them have
>
> been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I
feel very
>
> angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to
think "I
>
> must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these
symptoms
>
> could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally
angry at the
>
> NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so
that one
>
> can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which
things might
>
> really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to
guesswork when
Behalf Of
>
> canaryyuk
>
> Sent: 24 November 2005 15:05
>
> To:
[hidden email]
>
> Subject: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I see what you mean, ian, about ES being so difficult to tackle
>
> because no one really knows the root cause, including the 'experts'.
>
>
>
> I know that i got very ill after taking this chinese herb for 18
>
> months - the change in my physical health over that time was
>
> dramatic - but i don't know exactly WHAT the herb did to me, but it
>
> is as if something got (irreprerably?) broken.
>
>
>
> I do not have enough money to spend on 'experts', and i'm afraid i
do
>
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
>
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
>
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
>
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they
>
> believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.
>
>
>
> They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the
>
> means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!
>
>
>
> Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is
>
> hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is
discovered
>
> to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for
>
> example.
>
>
>
> Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-
>
> flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't
>
> perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing
the
>
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
>
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
>
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in
>
> your gut.
>
>
>
> Why do our bodies cease to be able to look after themselves?
>
>
>
> One thing that is for sure, this illness is BUMMER.
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> PS. When in a previous post i described MW RF as the root cause,
>
> what i meant was that of the EMFs that a person might be feeling
they
>
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In
[hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
>
> that we
>
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
>
> helped a
>
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with
>
> it at
>
> > all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general
>
> principles
>
> > may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the
case
>
> of
>
> > deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors
>
> and
>
> > nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or
>
> herbs that
>
> > help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the
>
> patient's
>
> > problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always
seemed
>
> > illogical to me to blame Sue's health problems on diet and to say
>
> she should
>
> > take lots of extra supplements, when she had always eaten very
>
> healthily -
>
> > more so than most people, including me!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I guess the parallel I would suggest is - if a fuse in your car
>
> keeps
>
> > blowing, you don't just keep replacing it by thicker and thicker
>
> fuses (like
>
> > high-dose supplements) - you try to find out the short-circuit
that
>
> makes it
>
> > blow in the first place. Unfortunately we are even more complex
>
> than cars
>
> > when it comes to trying to trace problems!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ian
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _____
>
> >
>
> > From:
[hidden email] [mailto:
[hidden email]] On
>
> Behalf Of Cara
>
> > Sent: 23 November 2005 15:34
>
> > To:
[hidden email]
>
> > Subject: [eSens] colostrum update (bad reaction to whey protein)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My husband has been having a flu-like reaction, apparently to raw
>
> milk and
>
> > colostrum for
>
> > several days now, but following his intuition he has continued to
>
> drink the
>
> > stuff and very little
>
> > else. Then, last night he drank some whey protein at our
>
> naturopath's
>
> > recommendation, to
>
> > prepare for a root canal extraction next week. His reaction to
the
>
> whey
>
> > protein was a striking
>
> > contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the
>
> difference as
>
> > good sick vs bad
>
> > sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular
pain"
>
> like
>
> > someone might who
>
> > had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few
>
> nights than
>
> > he had in a very long
>
> > time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he
>
> actually felt
>
> > the chemical
>
> > reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped
cold.
>
> His
>
> > blood once again
>
> > feels "burning/stinging" (my word is "poisoned") the way it has
>
> throughout
>
> > most of his long
>
> > illness. He was too ill and miserable to sleep at all last night.
>
> >
>
> > We don't think our doctors ever mean any harm, but this is why we
>
> have
>
> > learned to be
>
> > skeptical of dietary and other expert medical advice. My husband
>
> says he
>
> > sensed his body
>
> > rejecting the whey protein before he even took it, but his
concern
>
> about
>
> > next week's dental
>
> > procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of
>
> the story,
>
> > I guess, is to trust
>
> > our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to
a
>
> mostly
>
> > raw milk and
>
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see
>
> how that
>
> > goes. We do feel
>
> > that some important ground was lost last night, which is
>
> frustrating.
>
> >
>
> > Cara
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > SPONSORED LINKS
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> ealth+
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>
> > _____
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> >
>
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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> > * Visit your group "eSens
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> >
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>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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>
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ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
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otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
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